95: Rhino Mentality with Jeremy Terman of DoorDash: Networking, Process & Persistence

0:08 Scott Ingram: You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve. To learn more, visit us at top1.fm.

0:21 Scott Ingram: Here's your host, Scott Ingram. Today on the Sales Success Stories podcast, my guest is Jeremy Terman. Jeremy is the top seller at DoorDash where he works on enterprise partnerships. Welcome to the show, Jeremy.

0:34 Jeremy Terman: Good morning, Scott. Thanks so much for having me.

0:36 Scott Ingram: Absolutely. This is going to be a ton of fun. Why don't we start like we always do with some immediate value and talk about the top 3 things that you believe have contributed the most to your success?

0:47 Jeremy Terman: Fantastic. Yes. I think the first 3 things that when I've been looking internally the last couple of weeks have been networking, process, and persistence. And those 3 pillars have really jolted me in my career from a young age. And I can dive into these right now, Scott.

1:04 Scott Ingram: Yeah, let's do it.

1:04 Jeremy Terman: Okay. So from a networking perspective, ever since a young age, I've always wanted to just meet people and engage, kind of have that Curious George mindset of always wanting to know what is that or how does this process work? And so as I've scaled that into my professional world, I've always been interested in When I walk into a restaurant or to a business, I look at the process and I just start talking to people. How are you doing? How long have you worked here? And that natural curiosity has led to relationships. And a perfect example of that is here at my duplex, our handyman was working on the house and he and I started engaging in a dialogue. And at the end of the conversation, he said, you know what? You need to connect with Stu Stram. Stu's a successful restaurant entrepreneur here in Kansas City. He's led and created multiple ventures. You know, here's his number. I ended up calling Stu and, you know, months later, as I launched the DoorDash market in Kansas City, probably a third of all my closes were due to the relationship with him. And he helped connect me to that network.

2:06 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. I'm sure we'll come back to that on the networking side and the relationship side, but let's go to process.

2:11 Jeremy Terman: Yeah. So we always at Pocket Points had the mindset, which is a startup we'll dive into. Is TTP, trust the process. And so whether you were leading the sales goal for the quarter or the month, or if you had zero closes halfway through the month, we would always reiterate, trust the process. And so that's everything from what do you do when you wake up in the morning? What do you do when you're at work? How are you efficient? And understanding that even if the results are not there, as long as you are believing in that foundation of I have my routine. I know that I'm going to make my calls. I know I'm going to do my follow-up and I'm diligent and execute how I know I should. I will be successful. And for like myself, I wake up pretty much at 6:00 AM every day and go till 10 or 11 PM every night. So a little bit of a workhorse there, but the process really helps keep me consistent.

3:07 Scott Ingram: Beautiful. And I know you said that my 4P productivity process presentation was helpful for you and resonated. So I know that we will Definitely be digging into some of the specifics of your process later on, but let's throw in yet another P word, persistence.

3:21 Jeremy Terman: Yeah. So I have a great philosophy that no means no. So no means K-N-O-W. And that goes back to knowledge. Information drives decisions. This was a key learning I had when I worked at Verizon and understanding that you need to get a client to the certain stage where they have enough information so they can make an informed and effective decision. And so earlier on in my sales career, when I was told no, I took it so personally and I was like, oh, I need to follow up with the client because the product is going to really help them and they need to adopt. And then I reflected on that and realized not every client is ready to sign the first time you talk to them. You need to help grow and develop that relationship. And so when that no turned into a no, I started sending them weekly emails, providing extra content, and then changed from sales to consultant. And that ultimate switch of being a consultant and giving and sharing industry knowledge really was a huge driver in my success.

4:29 Scott Ingram: Fantastic. Well, why don't we put this in perspective just a little bit? And if you would kind of talk about your role and about DoorDash, and you mentioned Pocket Points, I think that might come up here a little bit as well. Why don't we just kind of give us some of that backstory?

4:41 Jeremy Terman: For sure. So I think I'll be an entrepreneur for life. After interning a couple of years at Verizon, I saw the corporate structure and, you know, I do not want to spend 35 years at the same company. And so I've naturally gravitated to things that are new and that need to be built. I'd like to call myself a creator and a builder. And so we'll dive into Pocket Points later, but DoorDash specifically, when I joined, we were the number 4 delivery provider I honestly didn't even know what food delivery was. My fiancée at the time was driving for Postmates. So I was like, why would you just not just go get it yourself? And then after learning more from my previous VP of sales who had joined DoorDash, you know, this market was rapidly growing and it was only… DoorDash was only in 50 cities. And so when I was reached out to join the business, it was more of a, local sales role, but also a semi-launch role where I would be going to Cincinnati, Kansas City, Wichita, and I'd be going to these new markets to launch the brand. And so super passionate about bringing products to life. So I took the leap, moved from California back to Kansas City and started launching these markets, going literally door to door, getting restaurants signed up and building my own funnel. I was my own SDR. So I sourced my leads and then had to simultaneously sell to those leads. And so taking that a step further, so when I actually joined DoorDash, we postponed the launch of Kansas City. So I had to then pivot and start going to Cincinnati. So I flew every other week to Cincinnati and I had never been to Cincinnati before. And so I, had to learn the local ecosystem. Like there was a mayoral election going on, that FC Cincinnati was building a new stadium, and there was conflict about where they would build the stadium. And so I got hyper-focused on understanding, you know, how is this market going to work? And because I was able to do so, Cincinnati is now a top 10 market in our entire country for DoorDash, but it was truly understanding I had to build the framework of how DoorDash will be successful in that market. And so, you know, you fast forward the last 2 and a half plus years because of that desire to build that product and scale it in those markets. I've had 5 different roles and every role at DoorDash, I've 150 to 200 plus percent quota in all those positions because it's more on, I want to build and scale this position than truly I need to just hit my quota.

7:23 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So let's do a couple of other kinds of contextual things. Again, coming back to Pocket Points and what that was, and then quantify your results and talk about that, you know, 5 different roles kind of experience and how that's played out.

7:38 Jeremy Terman: For sure. So I actually got connected with Pocket Points, which was a startup based in Chico State. And it was an app that rewarded college and high school students for not using their phones in class. And so we gamified it by having the students earn points. And we translated those points into coupons for local businesses. And so I was a Sigma Chi at Mizzou. I was the president there. And when they reached out, they were Sigma Chis at Chico State. And they said, hey, we need someone to launch this product at Mizzou. And they said, who do you know that could do this? And I said, me. And so then I took this product, which no one had heard about, and signed up 25 local restaurants. In textbook stores and bars and were able to build a massive marketplace where we were doing 10,000+ transactions a week. And so I scaled that business at Mizzou and then moved out to California to help launch our Midwest. So I ended up building 20, 25 different college towns throughout the entire Midwest and bringing this product to life. And that's where I think I truly got a big first jump in testing my sales career. Because I managed the entire region by myself. We had no post-sale side. So we were signing clients and we were managing them. And so using that network of not just building the relationship, but truly owning it. And then from there, you know, really had the opportunity to scale it to DoorDash. And at DoorDash at the time, we had about 80 to 100 sales reps. And so I knew that in order to be the top sales rep, I needed to be great at my job, but also forecast where's the future. And so when I was in that first outside sales job, I met with the director of outside sales and said, no, we need to be more specialized. There are top restaurant partners in these cities that we're not strategically chasing. So let's find ways to build a strategy to attack those top clients. And then align our best reps against that. And so that's how I shifted from that first outside sales role to that expansion role where we tested going to new markets and trying to find the best clients in those markets to then rapidly scale them. Now that actually failed, and I want to talk about that later. The role actually collapsed. We were really successful in actually signing the restaurants, but we didn't see the actual long-term impact to the business. So we consolidated that role. And as soon as I saw where the future of the outside sales org was moving, I had to shift and look in the entire sales ecosystem at DoorDash and said, where's the next biggest impact? And that was enterprise. We only had 2 or 3 enterprise sales reps at the time. And, you know, there's 250+ national brands and we haven't had the infrastructure in place because we've been scaling so quickly. So I was able to work with the director of the enterprise team and say, where are your biggest gaps? Where do you need me to solve? And so that led me to a, a new franchise role where I was selling to 100 to 700+ location franchisees and really bringing a consultative approach to that playbook. And after doing that for a year, I've now moved into enterprise partnerships where I manage 15 national brands and helped consult and add new revenue streams. And so if you sum up all those 2 and a half years together, I've had over 8,000 restaurants that I brought onto the business, over $50 million in, in annual revenue. And some of the deals that I signed back in the early days were exclusive. So when you look at the brand value in these markets, I was truly bringing on these clients that only were using our platform which accelerated our market share growth in these initial markets.

11:31 Scott Ingram: Awesome. So why don't we talk about this idea of building roles and creating roles? So clearly you have taken a very entrepreneurial approach or what some would call an intrapreneurial approach, right? Where you're, you're kind of acting as an entrepreneur inside of a larger enterprise. How have you done that? Let's get into the specifics of, so clearly you saw where the business was going and you tried to kind of stay in front of that. How did you set yourself up where you were able to, I know in a few of those cases, create that role?

12:06 Jeremy Terman: Yeah, that's a great question. So I think from a personal standpoint, you have to understand where the North Star is. So at the very tail end of Pocket Points, we had some sales reps leave and we were exploring the online national partnership game. So working with a know, Pizza Hut or a Wendy's to offer a coupon for like online ordering. And I got to take on that initiative towards the end of the career. And so I saw that I could work with those enterprise partners. So towards the very tail end, I was solely working with enterprise partners across the country. And so when I made the switch to DoorDash, they said, that's fantastic, but you need to start at our entry level, which is the outside sales role. And so knowing that I wanted to be back at the enterprise level at DoorDash, I had to build the path. And so I knew like my North Star of as soon as I joined DoorDash, enterprise partnerships was the team that I wanted to be a part of. And so there's, you know, 100+ sales reps that all want that same job. So how do you differentiate yourself? Like, how do you get from regular entry sales rep to enterprise sales where there's only 3 people that have more tenure, that have been at the company and had proven success longer than myself. And so I think when you rewind that back, if you don't build little steps along the way to get there, you'll never get to that end state because everyone wants it. Of course everyone wants to be the top sales rep. They all wanna be successful. So if you identify that North Star, which I did, you then have to kind of rewind backwards and say, Who are the key internal stakeholders that are going to influence and change who gets those positions? Okay, great. Back to my networking point. Network with them and see what they care about. What are their top priorities? They don't have enough time to solve all of the problems. Can you solve some of their problems on the side? And so I've always found that understanding where people have bandwidth constraints, one, help them. 2, identify what that gap is. And then 3, like, be a consultant to the business. Even though when I joined we were a $700 million business and now $10+ billion business, I still saw there are areas for our business to grow and change. And so I went to my manager and said, hey, I believe that there is a massive opportunity if we tap into new partners in this vertical, you know. Let me build a business case. Built the internal business case, got approval from the director, tested the new role. From the franchise perspective, from networking with the director of the enterprise team, he identified that we have a big hole in truly getting these large franchisees that have hundreds of locations to come onto the business. I'm like, great, let me build the playbook for that. And so I think if you look at all the different roles I've had, Even at Verizon, I was able to get Verizon to create a B2B internship because I said, here's the value that I can bring. Here's what's missing in your organization. Let me create that for you.

15:12 Scott Ingram: So, and I wanted to ask earlier, I think this is a perfect point. So the idea that you're bringing playbooks, because when you were talking about Pocket Points, you said that you were responsible for not only bringing on the business, but taking care of those clients. How have you been able to find that balance? Because the trap I think a lot of people fall into is they have really good initial success because they're able to focus on purely the new business development, and then they get trapped in the minutia of servicing their existing clients and they really stop growing their territory.

15:47 Jeremy Terman: That's a fantastic question. So I'm a firm believer of hire customer success and hire account management and post-sale. I think they are truly 2 different functions. Being in a startup, you naturally have to do it all. You talk about, you gotta wear all the different hats because the business needs to move. And I even have had to do that in roles at DoorDash. I mean, in every single role you end up getting thrown back into the mix. So there's a couple key things that you can do, one, to avoid that, and then 2, how to manage it. So one, you need to be very intent with your expectations. I think a lot of salespeople get in there and they wanna warm and win the client over, and so they give away too much. Because they feel afraid that like, if I don't give them everything, if I don't pick up every single phone call or email them right away, they're going to sign with someone else. And so what happens is you give that expectation of, if I call you, you answer. I believe I've gone down this road many times where now that person calls you and even if you don't solve their problems, you've built the expectation that you are the person to solve their problems. So in that sales process, You need to clearly define, and I do this with clients today, I am here to build new verticals and new revenue streams. If you are lucky enough to have a post-sale or customer success team, that is where you clearly say, as we scale and build our partnership, you work with XYZ. We've built and scaled other teams to support other verticals of the business. I'm not gonna be the best at doing the internal backend or helping build or create stores on our backend side, but I can help be your thought partner and how we build new revenue channels. So being very explicit in that sales process through the close and afterward of, I'm here to grow your business. We have people that will help you on our other teams. So that's part one. Part 2 is when you have to do both. And so I think what's extremely clear is you, again, defining the lines of giving them to enable themselves. So even at Pocket Points, you know, startup with 20 people, we actually had a pretty robust backend portal that the stores could manage and the clients can manage their coupon offerings, see their sales metrics. And so during that onboarding process, I would walk through the portal with them and say, I am your quarterback. When you come to me, a lot of the time I'll have to ask questions internally and/or I will just go directly into your portal to fix the problem themselves. So if you come to me, I then have to delegate out. What I want to do is teach you how I do it because you have all the tools to complete this. And if you guys master this, you won't need to come to me because you'll be able to do it yourself. And so because I was able to educate some of these larger concepts that I would bring on, they would then be able to self-help. And so if they truly reached out to me, it would be like, hey, we do want to grow our business. What are your thoughts on this? Or I think our offerings are not succeeding as well? Like, what else would you recommend? What are best practices? So then I could switch from being that, let me just be a pure account manager, to actually helping them grow their business.

18:55 Scott Ingram: Awesome. Great, great stuff. Now, you also dropped a key phrase that I want to come back to. You suggested that as you're networking with the folks internally who are going to be in a position to create or lead the roles that you're interested in moving into, and you're helping them on the side. I know that you've got a lot going on on the side. You want to give us some perspective around kind of the side hustle world that is Jeremy Terman?

19:21 Jeremy Terman: Yeah, that's great. So I think it all goes back and we can talk about The Rhino Mentality by Scott Alexander, but I'm very passionate about creating and building projects, whether that's businesses. I built a couple of philanthropy events throughout high school and college, but it's being around like-minded individuals. That really want to create and make change. And when you find people that are just so fascinating and tapped into, you just want to work with them. And I also think it helps me in all my other roles. So yeah, I own a, well, part owner of a clothing company in California. It's called Fitsbee. We actually have a patent approved for the back pocket of shorts. So like when you're working out, the phone sits right above your hip. So I've been running business development there for about 2 and a half years. You know, we've done several hundred thousand in sales annually through wholesale and really helping Colton, my business partner, scale and build a whole like fulfillment channel of clothing. So I've been doing that for about 2 and a half years. When I was at Verizon, I met a director of a sales org there and he and I have become close friends. And so about 2 years ago, we started a consulting company called Accelii, and it was a startup that helped C to Series A businesses build their go-to-market ventures. And through those connections at Accel-E, we then advised a social media company called Social Apex Media, where Mark, my business partner, became their CEO and I advised that Social Apex company. And then I also am now involved in esports. So I'm leading a Series A or seed round, $3 to $5 million for an esports team in Kansas City called Kansas City Pioneers. And then lastly, I am actually building my own podcast. It's called The Summit. We actually have 2 episodes recorded, and depending on the time of when this is released, it will coincide with this episode as well, but really talking about how do you understand the right goals that you're pursuing and making sure you're on the right path. And so I think I just find the hours in a day to manage all of these based on tech, Slack, I'm always on my phone, which is probably a bad thing, but each and every business partner that I work with and all of these different ventures all add and bring different value to my life. And it all is mentally stimulating that I can tap into the fulfillment lens at Fitsbee and understand, okay, we need to work with our distributor in China to get this next batch. We need to build this partnership to then esports, which is We have 30 million eyes on these impressions and posts. How do we monetize that 30 million eyes? Then to DoorDash, which is the full-time job, which is how do I build and keep my funnel? How am I the best business partner? And I think it's, you know, extracting the best of each business and then turning that to make myself as successful and as creative as possible.

22:17 Scott Ingram: Awesome. So as per usual, and probably an extreme version with this particular set, if you go to top1.fm/ either the episode number or top1.fm/jeremy-terman, you will find all of the show notes and links to all of the stuff that we've been talking about. So all the different side hustles and resources and things like that. Jeremy, I want to talk about first, you turned me onto this. I wasn't previously aware. I don't know how well known it is. Talk about Rhinoceros Success.

22:48 Jeremy Terman: Yeah, I love this. So I have a little rhino pin. I'm not wearing it right now, but when I worked at Verizon in the B2B division, Hashim Belal, one of my mentors who took me under his wing, saw the potential that I had and just saw the fire of, you want me to cold call? Okay, gimme a list of 50 people. I'll cold call through all of these. And they were like, wow, this is awesome. We have a lead generator on our team. And I'm like, yeah, I'm the intern. Use me for that. So he saw that passion and fire and he labeled it and he said, you know what? You are a rhino. And he gave me this rhino pin. And then my next task was to read this book called Rhinoceros Success by Scott Alexander. And it's a goofy book. It's about 130 pages. I mean, probably a 3 or 4 hour listen, but the concept of Rhinoceros Success is having 2-inch thick skin, running through any obstacle and never letting anything drag you down and understanding that to be your best self, to move as fast as possible, you need to put yourself in a situation and around other people that will help you run. And so Scott uses the analogy of there are rhinos and there are cows, and there are people that will want to move forward and go full speed all the time. And then there are people that want to do the 9 to 5. They want to just do their job, be done and go home, read a book, watch TV. And that's great. It's not a good or bad thing being a rhino or a cow. But if you are a rhino, you have that mindset going back to that like-minded individual that I'm going to be successful whenever I do. If I have a massive challenge ahead of me, I know that I can accomplish it. If I'm hitting a roadblock, I know I'll get around it. And so I truly believe in that mindset of I will go full speed. If there's something I can't figure out, I'll tap into my network to get advice. I'll do research. But I know that regardless of what is weighing me down or the roadblocks in front of me, I will get through it and keep moving forward.

24:51 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So the mindset stuff, I mean, there's, there's a lot of things that are, it's cool. It, it is very cheesy. And the audio, it's actually, it's an hour and 33 minutes. It is super fast. And if you, if you're like me and you listen to Rhinoceros Success at rhinoceros speed, you can knock that out in 45 minutes. So, but what's, what's funny is Jeremy and I were talking about this beforehand. I was like, you know what, this idea of finding other rhinoceroses and bringing that group together. I did a quick Google search and it turns out a group of rhinoceros is called a crash. And I thought, you know what, that is exactly what the Sales Success Summit is. And, you know, it's… I'm pretty intentional about… I don't ever hard sell the summit, right? It's one of those things where the right people are super attracted to it and There's really no pressure necessary. And those that require pressure, I really don't want there. So, because, you know, to use this analogy, they're the cows, right? Like, look, let's not have the cows in our crash of rhinoceros at the summit. So anyway, it just fun book, quick read. I think there's some really good mindset stuff in there that you have clearly taken away. Let's dig into the process side of things. Right? So I'm sure the question that's coming up for everybody right now with you is the same question that I get a lot, which is, how the heck are you doing all of this? And I just recently shared… we're recording this on the morning of Saturday, May 9th. Last week, or this week, I released the audio from my presentation on my own productivity process, the keynote that I gave at last year's Sales Success Summit. Talk about just… why don't we start with like the traditional ways that we walk through this? Walk us through a day in the life. You said it starts at 6, it ends at 10 or 11. What are the steps in between? Like, how are you structuring a typical day?

26:45 Jeremy Terman: Yeah, I love this. And the 4 Ps that you have, Scott, I think are fantastic. Inbox zero is a really great productivity hack, but I think it's… you have to almost be a robot, not in a bad way, but you need to be very prescriptive with your time. You know, I don't have a family yet. I have a wife and she's very gracious that she lets me spend lots of hours of the day on all these different ventures, but you need to be very intentional with your time because you can't get that back. So before you even dive into the day-to-day of what it looks like, you need to have a mental mindset of, I will be very intentional with every minute and every second. So when you take that lens, waking up early in the morning, I really take 2 different paths depending on what the workday looks like. I will Immediately get my cup of coffee, like a huge coffee guy, if you can't tell. So get the cup of coffee and spend 2 hours of undivided attention directly to emails or business process. Primarily, this is all DoorDash related. So emails, make sure that I'm having my entire day structured from 6 to 8. The other flip of that is get a morning workout in. Other people have mentioned on this podcast that Exercise is a key component, not only to staying healthy, but I generate ideas while working out. It just gives you that instant refresh and that charge going back to that rhino mindset, that charge of I can keep going at my lightning speed because my body's at its best shape. So either work out immediately or do massive prep for the day. As soon as you switch from that like 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM slot, that's when I start executing. That's where if I want to start coordinating meetings, I want to start actually sending emails, going and start prospecting, using that morning time to really prospect, hold meetings. Then throughout the lunch, you know, you have the internal meetings usually around that lunchtime break, and then afternoon hits, and that's, you know, designated that 1 to 4 PM of purely project-based building proposals, building decks, syncing internally with teams. And then around 4, I usually take a break and start looking at other ventures, you know, look at my texts, see if I need to hop on a quick meeting with an advisor or business partner, and then shut down either via workout or dinner from like 5 to 7 and try to avoid like work for a little bit, spend some time with Katie. And then, you know, 7 to 10, constantly on Slack, texting folks, reading at that time. We occasionally will watch Netflix to take a break, but using that nighttime to then switch on the, put on the different hats, you know, start talking about Kansas City Pioneers, call Colton and see, you know, where's our last fulfillment batch? How are we doing on sales? Check Shopify. So I usually tend to use that evening shift as the other side hustles.

29:38 Scott Ingram: Awesome. Let's get into The information diet piece sounds like that's mostly happening in the evening, if I heard that right. What are you listening to, watching, and reading?

29:46 Jeremy Terman: Yeah, great. I love that question. So I'm listening, of course, to your podcast now, and I, I've thoroughly enjoyed listening to other successful sales professionals talk about what has made them great. I also have been listening to the Jordan Harbinger Show. He does a great job interviewing CEOs to successful professionals in tapping into their secrets. How I Built This by Guy Raz. Again, because I build things and create things, it's fascinating to see other companies building ideas. And then I'm reading Never Split the Difference right now by Chris Voss. I think that's a great book for renegotiation since I'm in that role. Rainmaker is just a nice little easy read that has a bunch of tips and tricks, but I'm actively actually getting back into this. I haven't been as diligent in personal growth over the past couple years. And actually earlier this year when I was flying pretty heavily, I realized that when I got on a plane, I was wasting 30 to 40 minutes on my phone. And I realized, why don't I just take that time to start reading? So that really kicked off. I'm 4 books in for the year so far, but that really helped turn the page by optimizing that time during the travel.

31:00 Scott Ingram: Nice. What about… I'm super curious about your perspective on this, just given your age. What does your personal tech stack look like? What are the tools that you're using? And I want to be all-inclusive with this, right? Not just the sales tech stack, but what are all the different tools and apps that you're using to run all of this?

31:21 Jeremy Terman: My calendar. I pretty much just use my Google Calendar. To block out, like I'll put gym from 7 to 8:00 AM or listening to podcasts from 7 to 8:00 PM. So I primarily stem everything from my calendar. So if someone asks me if they want to do something, I immediately go and see what's on my calendar. I use Slack and email and Discord and Zoom to actually do the communications. I hear that people use productivity apps or sleeping apps, that like very task-oriented, 45 minutes on, 15 off. So I probably could be more prescriptive in how I do this, but I think I've just built up such a strong internal drive that I don't need other apps and tools to help drive me. So it really is put in a calendar. Now from a tactical resource of, okay, well, Jeremy, how do you project manage? No, I've used Asana before. I've used Airtable as CRMs. You know, in the current job we use Salesforce, met like Google Sheets, Google Documents, you know, Google Slides to build presentations, but pretty much all of that lives in a condensed space. So I don't have to switch between 10 different apps to access 10 different sides of my internal infrastructure.

32:37 Scott Ingram: So that's really, really fascinating. And I think that there may be enough interest in this that we might put together a bit of a debate. Perhaps at the summit, maybe it's just a webinar. I haven't figured this out yet, but this was prompted by somebody sent me a book that's in the works and it's all about how the best reps of the future are going to be the ones who best leverage technology, right? And become like cyborgs and superhuman because of, because of their tech. Here's what I think, and this is maybe counter, but Having done all of these interviews, and the reason I wanted your perspective is a lot of the interviews that I've done recently, in fact, probably the most recent one that will be before this, is a much more tenured rep, right? So, you know, I didn't want to have bias here in terms of, well, Scott, that's probably the case because you've got folks that have been at this a long time and they're maybe not digital natives and things like that. But it's so fascinating to hear you say that it's really about less tech, because I think that it sounds good. Like, the theory is amazing. It sounds like, yeah, I totally want to be a cyborg. I want the technology to serve me and make me better. But I think the reality is it tends to be more of a distraction. Like, the technology just consumes you rather than just having a very, very basic set of tools that you use really well and not letting the technology distract you. Does that resonate? Does that sound right? I, I feel like I'm on an island with this idea, but when I go back to show me somebody who's at the absolute top of their game and crushing it because of their technology, I'm not finding that.

34:25 Jeremy Terman: Yeah, I agree with you. You won't be surprised that I've gotten back to sticky notes and I'm actually taking all meeting notes now. On paper and pen. I find that I am more engaged, especially when you can be face-to-face. I mean, if you're typing on a computer, like, why even be there? Like, look someone eye to eye and really go paper to pen. I think it's a great way to put down your thoughts as well. If you have something to talk about, you can still be engaged while writing. And I think it also goes back to how strong are you mentally to execute on what you have set your eyes on the prize. So like when I talk about the summit and we uncover like the true drive behind people, like this goes back to sports. Like I was not the best athlete. I didn't really physically mature until college. And so I was in high school and I was slow. Like I loved basketball and I loved baseball, but I was average, but I worked the hardest because I was so passionate about being the best basketball player being able to shoot 3s. Like, I loved shooting 3s, but I was slow. So being someone that was slow, that meant I had to work 10 times harder than all the other kids that were just naturally athletic. And so I think when you look at, well, what do you use to make yourself successful? You need to look internally and say, what am I actually able to hold myself accountable towards? And if you have that internal strength to say, well, I'm going to commit to this and I know I will execute. Yeah. All those other tech tools will be helpful to keep you accountable, but you should be able to run off of yourself. And if you can't, I think that's a whole nother conversation, Scott, of how do you make it so you don't need tech to rely on yourself to be successful?

36:13 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So let's double down on that. Like, what's the mechanism that you use to hold yourself accountable?

36:17 Jeremy Terman: So I think it's setting short-term and realistic goals. Like publicly, like the podcast that I'm using, let's use it as a good example. Like I don't have a timesheet or Asana saying we need to have it launched by this day. It's, I've publicly committed I'm going to do this and I hold myself accountable saying, well, I've said it, I'm a man of my word, which means I need to execute on it. But that's also a short timeframe. This is not I want to release 100 podcasts, or I want to go sell 1,000 deals. It's, I want to just accomplish this next task. And when you break down the overall goal into smaller goals, it allows you to be more effective. And I'll translate this into running. So my wife challenged me 3 years ago to run a marathon, and the most I had run before that marathon was 4 miles. And so, you know, how do you go from 4 miles to 26.2? Well, you have to train. And so we had a training regimen where we had to run 4 times a week and it helped build through, here's how many miles you need to run each day. Well, I had to figure out, okay, there's 4 days a week I need to run. This is my end goal. What days am I doing the runs? So whether it's rainy, whether it's cold outside, find a treadmill. And make it happen. And so every week is where are the 4 runs, make those execute. So if you take that larger goal and you break it down into a smaller short-term task, it's more manageable and easier to swallow. So you can really hit small goal after small goal after small goal to really hit to that end state.

37:57 Scott Ingram: Okay. I'm going to challenge you here. And that is, I always love that analogy because, well, A, I've done it right. Whether it's a marathon plan, a triathlon plan, what's great about those things is there are formulas out there, there are training plans that they just work, right? I can pick up this plan and in 12 weeks and 16 weeks or whatever the duration is, I can go from I can maybe run a mile to I can run a marathon. What would your training program look like if somebody is listening to this today and says, you know what, by the end of the year, I want to double my sales. What would that look like? Like, what would that build need to be?

38:41 Jeremy Terman: Yeah, that's a great question, Scott. So the first is self-reflection. Like, look and see, am I really optimizing myself? So going back to process, like, are you making the calls you need to be doing? Do you have canned emails so you're not wasting time building and drafting custom emails for every single person? So can you be more efficient? Are you just doing the actual basics to like, you need to have a baseline of what are you doing today? The next step from that is truly understanding what is the next, like, okay, you want to be the top sales rep. Okay, well, what is that gap? Evaluate the gap and then split that into more actionable items. And so what does that actually look like? If you're in a B2B sales job and you are making 60 cold calls a day. Well, what's your conversion rate? How many calls are you making to set a meeting? After you set a meeting, what is your close percentage? So do you need to just simply double output? Do you need to make 120 calls a day, or do you need to refine something in your pitch to then make it so that your conversion rate goes from 30% to 40%? So you need to look at your baseline process, see Like how far that gap is between your position to number 1, and then break out the efficiencies. And I would gut check yourself and say like, am I wasting time or am I not working hard enough? Like part of why I've been successful is you put in a 14 or 16-hour day for weeks on end and months on end. And yeah, it's not the right work-life balance, but once you've built such a strong foundation and sales funnel, you then can pull it back. But there is at some point, I feel, the need that you do have to… there is the work hard mindset where getting to number one isn't just, okay, I'm going to optimize myself to make sure that my cold calls are more effective, or now my emails I've optimized, you know, through Outreach. I've looked at my response rates. I have the best emails. Part of it is you need to work harder. And this is something that probably have a different philosophy than others of, yeah, work the 14-hour days, you know, 5 months on end.

40:53 Scott Ingram: Okay. So you said philosophy, what is your sales philosophy?

40:56 Jeremy Terman: I think it's that rhino mentality of you need to run. And I think that it's, you need to, going back to sports, leave it all on the court. Like after every day, if you think, you know, I could have made 10 more calls, Or, you know what, I didn't work as hard today and I kind of put a day off. Like, when you're on, give everything. Like, it's okay to take breaks, like take a day off, take a week off, you know, maybe you take just a half day. But if you're on, on your computer or you're in the office, have headset on, headphones in, like you should be so intentional that you are as effective with your time as possible. And so I think I take that mindset of if you're working or if you're on a task, It should have your full attention and you should be giving everything you can to that task.

41:42 Scott Ingram: So here's, here's something that comes up for me when I think about that idea, because I, I agree, right? I think that again, and having done dozens and dozens and dozens of these interviews, there is no 4-hour workweek way to be the number one sales professional. It's an and equation, right? It's having the right mindset. It's running, right? It's doing the work. There's no way around. The hard work, and it's also being efficient and working on improving your efficiency and your skill set and those things. I wonder if coming back to the training plan idea, how do you train the stamina, the hard work, the endurance around? Because a lot of folks, that's the gap that I see. They're just not running all the time. And if you've not been running all the time, well, you're not going to be capable of running more than a mile. It's not reasonable to expect Hey, I'm gonna flip my switch and tomorrow I'm gonna go from, yeah, I probably, if I really honestly evaluated myself, I did, I don't know, 2 hours worth of truly meaningful work the day before. So to go from that to tomorrow, I'm going to do 14 or 16 hours. That's not a thing. You're going to kill yourself. What's the right way to train that?

43:01 Jeremy Terman: Yeah, that's good perspective there. That is not realistic. I think it's evaluating what is the best next step. So let's just look at emails, for example. How do you structure your inbox? How much time are you sitting there staring at a full screen? So touching back on the productivity Inbox Zero, I actually have a split inbox. So I have all emails on one side, and then I have 4 different labels that my inbox is split by. I have action items, which are emails that I know I need to do. I just wait until I have a block on my calendar for addressing emails. So I'll have a list of action items. Below that, I have waiting. I believe yours is like waiting for, Scott. And those waiting emails are when I'm waiting for a client to reply. And I know that I need to keep it top of mind. So I see it sitting there in the inbox. The one below waiting is read-through, and those are when you get those long internal emails or someone sends you an interesting article that you want to read, but you just don't have the time. And there's no point of taking 10 minutes during a call block to read that. So I have a label called read-through, and the last is long-term. And those are either clients or prospects that you're working with or looking to work with that always stay front of mind. So it just sits there in that long-term bucket. So every day when I check my inbox, I know that, you know, Culver's is a brand that I've been looking to partner with for a while. You know, I have the email sitting there. We haven't talked for 2 months, but I know every day I'm thinking about, okay, what can I be doing differently? How can I help engage with them to really move the needle on that account? And so that inbox management is Part 1, let's take cold calling as another example. I know folks listening to this are in those SDR or AE roles where they need to simply hit the phone. How are you doing that? Do you tab 10 leads out? That's something we did at Pocket Points. We would enter a call block and we would tab out all the leads. So when you make a call, you take the notes directly in Salesforce or Podio or whatever CRM you're using to store the information, take the notes on the call, and then on your little notepad, if you need to send someone an email or give them a call back, jot that down on the notebook, exit that tab, and make the next call so that you're not wasting any time in between cold calls of, oh, who am I calling next? If you pre-plan a call block, you can be so much more effective. And I don't even have an auto dialer. This is dialing for myself. I know there's companies that Institute tools that just call, call, call. But if you're calling and then you send an email, oh, and then you get another email and you, you sidetrack, you're like losing that productivity. So if you set to do that call block, do the calls and do the action items later.

45:58 Scott Ingram: Yeah, I mean, that's it. It's maintaining that focus and, you know, being single-tasked. So for you, how often are you checking email?

46:06 Jeremy Terman: So I'm guilty right now in the current role of probably checking email you know, every 30 minutes or so. I've done inbox pause before, which I think is a pretty great feature if those that don't do that, and also pausing Slack so I don't get Slack notifications. I would say I Slack just as much as I email, just because I feel from an efficiency standpoint, you could just ping so many different people. But if I'm in a meeting, I'll pause so I can be fully attentive on that. I also try to give myself, if possible, 15 to 30 minute windows every 2 hours or so. If you get, you know, 6 meetings in a row, how do you actually accomplish something if you don't have breaks? So I'll put a block on my calendar called busy, and I use that time to then go through and shift the inbox. But how I do my process, Scott, because I clear everything in the morning from 6 to 8 AM, like I'll start pretty much every day with inbox zero. So as things come in throughout the day and I have those blocks in between my meetings, every 2 hours or so, I'm able to clear that back out. So, you know, by the end of the day at 4 or 5 o'clock, if I have 7 emails in my action items, okay, great. Boom. There's an hour at the very end of the day. I'll knock through those action items or I'll just leave it in there to address first thing tomorrow morning.

47:24 Scott Ingram: Yeah. I think that's the thing that folks who aren't inbox zero aficionados don't understand is, you know, when you're looking at hundreds and thousands and tens of thousands of emails in your inbox, to imagine getting to zero and staying at zero doesn't sound possible. But the reality is, if you're doing it, in my case, once a day, or in your case, a few times over the course of the day, it's never that big of a deal, right? You never have to clear more than 40, 50, maybe, you know, on a crazy day, 100 emails you've got to clear out. But it's never that big of a lift. It's staying consistent and just on top of that process that makes it possible. And I also really like this this idea of just, you know, creating small mini blocks throughout your day to stay on top of those. I learned a little trick from Barb Giamonaco because I watched her do this. I was like, oh, this is brilliant. She will carve out… if she has a meeting that she knows is likely going to have some action items, but they'll be relatively quick and easy action items, she'll just book an extra 15 minutes or 30 minutes on the back end of that meeting to immediately knock those things out and it's done. It never even really makes it to a to-do list. It's, I have this conversation, I do all of my follow-up actions and it's done. And she looks like a hero. You know, the, the only reason I learned about this is because she did it and the whole group was like, holy crud, what is going on here? And then she explained what she did. It's brilliant. It makes you look like a rock star.

48:52 Jeremy Terman: Yes. That just goes back to like optimizing for yourself. Like if you're not a morning person, then maybe you do this routine late at night before going to bed where you clear everything out. But when you talk about like, how do you actually form and take that next step of running 2 miles to 26 miles and taking those like small steps between, I think it's, you have to look at all the different areas of your day and break down, okay, we haven't addressed prospecting, Scott. Like, when you prospect, how are you going about prospecting? Do you use the same Zoom info, go to LinkedIn, connect with 3 people on LinkedIn? Like, I hate to say that I do copy and paste like an intro, same LinkedIn message. If I'm reaching the same group, I'll change the name and maybe the verbiage if I have somewhat of a connection, but using some little like growth hacks where, you know, I go through the same set of routines for prospecting, So I know if I'm not getting any replies and no one is scheduling meetings with me, then what I was probably doing in that process didn't work. So I can go back and reevaluate. So if you're not consistent on your day-to-day execution of emails, cold calls, prospects, meeting follow-ups, internal meetings, if you don't do the same thing at the highest level day-to-day, how do you even fix the problem? Or how do you even identify what the problem is if every day is so different and there's no consistency? That's why I talk about, you need to understand your baseline and truly evaluate like, where am I spending all the time of the day?

50:28 Scott Ingram: Yeah. What is your prospecting routine? Let's get into the details and the specifics of that. How does that work for you?

50:33 Jeremy Terman: Yeah. So since I'm in this enterprise partnerships roles, I know who I'm working with. So it's not as much, who do I need to talk with today? So let me kind of take a step back to the outside sales world. So back when I was launching Cincinnati, Kansas City. I went to El Paso, Baton Rouge. I mean, I was all across the Midwest, both at Pocket Points and at DoorDash, having to build these markets from net new. The first is understanding what's the local environment. I'll give a perfect example. When I went to El Paso, people didn't care about the local businesses that I had on. They cared about the national brands. The national brands drove that market. So when I learned to sell, even before I even prospect, I knew that I needed to come from the lens of we work with Buffalo Wild Wings, Applebee's, IHOP, etc., you know, Cheesecake Factory. We work with these big national brands. You should join us. That was like, I knew that messaging worked great. But then if you flip the switch and you go to, you know, Baton Rouge, all they care about is local. So if I use that same script, in Baton Rouge, they'd be like, we don't really care. So before you even prospect, this goes back to like understanding how your brand can be successful in this industry and in this market. You need to understand how do your decision makers feel? What will move them to actually buy? So that again, first step of prospecting is knowing the lens of how you need to sell. The second, which is, I would say the hardest part if you don't have a robust CRM, is how do you evaluate what the top clients are in that market? So in both of the roles at Pocket Points and DoorDash, we had CRMs where we stored leads and we, you know, we base it on like Yelp reviews or stars, but we didn't have true levers to gauge who the top restaurants are. So part of it is networking in those communities, which has also made me successful, asking people when you're sitting at a bar, Hey, what are your favorite restaurants? Doing research online, what brands are successful? And understanding the scope of, okay, here are the high-value targets in these markets that I need to pursue. And if I get these high-value targets, the waterfall effect comes down and you're able to then use those people as referrals, but also as like the trademark of we got Joe's Kansas City Barbecue to sign. So if you're a barbecue restaurant in Kansas City, You're going to sign up for DoorDash because if they did it, we're going to do it. Now, how that applies to other industries could be very different. And obviously some companies have a very robust lead list and you can't stray from it. I would use that same example of who is the top lead on your business or who are existing partners that you have that you can use as leverage to say, you know, this brand is partnered with us, you should as well. So I have that referral slash trademark business I use as a key footprint in a market. And then to the actual prospecting, I mean, scour social platforms. LinkedIn is the top tool I use, but I'll even go Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. If I look and see a friend is connected to someone on LinkedIn, I'll message them and say, hey, do you mind making an introduction to this person? And truly, optimize and use, you know, hunter.io to see if I can grab an email address off of a homepage to reach out and use all of those social platforms to get information. And so once you take that all information, then that just gets into a nice little neat file of how I boom, go execute during a call block. And then in the emails and follow-up from there are all individual processes.

54:14 Scott Ingram: Nice. Let's switch gears a little bit, Jeremy. What motivates all of this? Like, how do you think about motivation in general?

54:19 Jeremy Terman: That's a great question. So I think it goes back to, first is internal drive. So I just have an innate feeling of, I just want to be successful. I want to be the best at what I do because it's just that natural energy. And this is a tough part of like, how do you get someone to have that natural energy? I think it's to be, you need to find what you're passionate about. I'm passionate about building and creating things. So any project, business group, consulting project that I'm working on is all built on, can I make impact and change? And if I know I can make an impact and change, I'm going to give all my full effort to do so. And if, you know, going back to previous conversations of not giving it your all, I have that feeling. If I know I'm not giving it my true best, then why even start that? So if you're going to agree to be part of an organization or be on the board for a company, why are you doing that? Are you doing it for the right reasons? Because if you are, you're going to be passionate about the end result and you're going to go full speed and give it your full heart and effort.

55:29 Scott Ingram: And what are you most proud of?

55:31 Jeremy Terman: That's a great question. I think it would be like, I'm proud of the impact and the relationships that I've built. In helping the community. So I have had such a great support network that has helped me from my family to my friends, to the networking groups of people that are my mentors and help advise me. But I'm proud that so many people have cared to invest in me. And I think that's because I'm genuine. And when I reach out to people, I want to grow and help them grow. And so it kind of creates this cycle of Like truly building a network of people that care for each other that also want to make change and impact, whether that's for-profit businesses or nonprofit. Like, I feel proud. I feel appreciated that people will give the time to me to help advise and consult. And I feel I have to like give that back to others to really come full circle.

56:25 Scott Ingram: We are a lot the same in this. And I mean, you remind me so much of myself in the earlier stages of my career. I wonder if you can put a finger on this, because I don't know that I understood it at the time. Kind of looking back on it, I'm like, oh, I think I know what was happening. I mean, you have this energy of… I think people want to help you because of the way that you're going about this and because of the way that you're doing it in a pretty selfless way, right? Where you want to be able to help them in return and pay it forward. Maybe talk about How do you leverage mentors? I kind of shared my story as we were getting into this. I'd love to hear kind of your perspective on how do you think about mentors and those who have helped guide you and helped you grow and bring you into new opportunities and all those kinds of things?

57:17 Jeremy Terman: I mean, mentorship has been a massive piece, I think, in my success. I also have to give a shout out to my parents, you know, Mark and Susan Terman. They, I think, helped, you know, along with all my family and friends that helped me grow up, really instilled the mindset of what's next. And there's always been the philosophy of, that's great. Like, we're really proud that you accomplished that. So what are you going to do next? And there was never a state of complacency of, okay, just because you created this or built this, like, what are you going to do? Sit back? It's like, no, now I'm going to go create the next thing. And so what's helped fuel a lot of that, like, whoa, what's the next thing? What's the next step? Has been the mentors. And I've had mentors of very different spaces. One of my mentors is my uncle, a private equity guy, and he was very successful. So he was able to help consult me from a VC lens. I have Mark Josie, who is my business partner in multiple of these ventures that we work together. And that started off when I was an intern at Verizon 8 years ago. And I just Met him when he came into a retail store. We really connected and he and I, he coached me for a very long time. And then as we developed a relationship, you know, he and I had such a good complement. He always uses the term, which I've stolen, is the like-minded individuals. You find these like-minded individuals and you just want to just build stuff with them. You want to hang out with them because they make you better. So Mark's been a phenomenal asset and helped me grow myself. And then on the flip side, Stu Stram, who helped connect me in the Kansas City scene, he's been able to help open up my eyes and understand, here are all the different businesses. And then again, paint the picture of here's how you need to talk and work with. And then I have other mentors from Tracy Allen. He's built and scaled an international coffee business. He goes to the farms and sources the beans to make sure that they're growing and up to standards and like talking with him on how he's built and scaled his business. You know, just those 4 people right there. There's another handful of folks that I constantly talk with and say, hey, here's the path that I want to go down. You know, am I making the right decision by moving into this role at DoorDash or taking on this new venture? And they've been a phenomenal bouncing board in helping like keep the fire going and then challenging me. And saying, well, why do you want to do that? And I think that like gut check process really also helps me stay aligned. So if you don't have mentors, like you should naturally find them by looking at causes or organizations that you care about. And then as you meet people, you know, at the Sales Success Summit, like if you meet someone there that you resonate with, then go and scale and build with them. Or you're at a coffee shop and you see someone wearing a sports logo, maybe you say, Like you could connect with someone about sports and who knows what that person does. But if you just open your eyes and don't give yourself any barriers to meet and connect with people, you're going to find mentors. You're going to find friends in ways that you never would have thought would have happened, but you need to be open.

1:00:29 Scott Ingram: Yeah. I mean, such good stuff. And we also talked about this. We talked a lot before we covered a lot of ground before we even hit the record button. We should have just been recording from the beginning. You know, one of the things that I really work hard at with the summit. You know, we talked about the difference between the rhinoceros and the cows. And again, it really is that like-minded thing. And it's recognizing that I think most events are done wrong because they are that… they are an event. They're a thing that happened that one time in that one time and place. And I really think of what I try and create as more of a catalyst. Like, the event was really just the start of something, right? That's the place where you found your people, where you started to make those connections. And it's the beginning of conversations and not a point in time where, okay, I've got to learn everything. I've got 2 days to do it.

1:01:20 Jeremy Terman: Go.

1:01:21 Scott Ingram: It's no, these are conversations. If we do this right. And so far we have where some of these conversations continue for months or they turn into book clubs or they turn into all kinds of other things. That are opening new opportunities, new avenues for growth and all of those types of things. Let's now go to the opposite side of what you're proud of and just talk about what do you find to be the most challenging in all of this?

1:01:48 Jeremy Terman: Yeah, a great question. I think it's trying to build over and over again. Like I've had 5 different roles at DoorDash. I had 3 different roles at Pocket Points in 2 years there. 2 different roles at Verizon in like 3 different summers. So taking that same mindset of looking at your process, building the foundation, revising, and then executing is the hardest part because you have to alter that for every different type of business. When I was selling outside sales, the success in outside sales was effort in like a diligent, efficient process. Like, that's why I was successful. I worked the hardest, but I also worked the smartest. I had all these tools that enabled me from like preset emails, the structure of those days to be successful. And switching to enterprise partnerships, it's now more thought and philosophy. Like, I don't want… I need to take the lens of consultant. So now instead of that 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM of like prospecting and cold calling, this is reading that also can now shift to How do I learn more about the industry, connect with other professionals in the same industry as myself that work with the same clients but sell a different product and understand what advice are they giving to the client? So I have a full scope because I think the most successful you can be in your role is if you understand the industry or product or service better than the client does, if it's their job. So if you can be a consultant, then you will be as successful. And so I would say that the hardest challenge every time is like rebuilding the playbook. Now it takes time via trial and error to get there, but if you have that core foundation, even if it is so challenging, if you're selling a new product or you move to a new team, if you are back to your core, it may take a little bit more time, but you will get to a point where you are as efficient as you were in that previous role in the new role. So there's a little bit of a cop-out answer, Scott, because I know that's not… you can overcome that challenge, but that's my rhino mentality.

1:03:52 Scott Ingram: Yeah, no, but I got more stuff. It's all good. On the playbook side, does that become a physical thing? Like, are you documenting that or is it really just kind of the way that you are creating your process and the way that you're referring to that?

1:04:05 Jeremy Terman: I should probably do a better job of that. I have had relatively like Google Docs, 3 or 4 pages to talk through the mindset and I've given some internal meetings, talking people through the actual philosophy of just simply breaking out your day. I actually have a mindset for traveling, which is more framework. I don't know if the playbook is here's how you should do every email, but it's more here's the times of days that I've used to split up the activities that I do. More so take the lens of view your day as those frameworks of When are prime golden selling hours? Don't touch those with non-selling activities. Or if you're driving or flying, like, okay, if you're sitting at the airport for 30 minutes, what are you doing at the airport? So I think it goes back to the framework of evaluating your day and making sure you're as efficient with your time. Break the day up based on how your job entails what you're required to do, and then prioritize What's going to make me money? What's going to be best for the business partner? And then like, where am I wasting time? And then kind of sort those against your day. And I think if you look at it from like an hour or half hour standpoint and look to see where those gains are, that's how you can help build that actual framework. I'll dig and see if there's any actual day-to-day outlines that I have that I'd be able to share with you, Scott, so we could put on the website so they could see what that actually looks like.

1:05:35 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that would be great. And I want you to maybe talk through the travel one. I know this is kind of a weird time. You haven't been on the road in 3 months. I haven't been on the road in 2 months, which is very, very, very abnormal and atypical, but I'd still love to hear what is the travel mindset piece.

1:05:50 Jeremy Terman: Take the 6:00 AM flight. It sucks getting up at like 4:00 AM because I usually do get up around like 6:00, 6:30, but getting up super early, getting to the airport and getting on that first flight allows you to optimize the entire day. But also you don't lose hours. So if you can take the early flight, I always recommend take the early flight. Like that's the first key part of traveling. If you have to take, you know, a 10:00 AM, a 12:00 PM, and I say have to, I guess you may want to, but during those flights, block off when you're actually working. So I sometimes cut it close because Kansas City is a pretty easy airport. So when we board, I show up like 10 minutes before. I don't recommend that. 'Cause it could stress some people out, but I like optimize, like just getting to the airport, getting through TSA PreCheck and getting on the actual plane. But when you're in that travel mode, what are you doing on the taxi ride or Uber ride to the airport? You could be doing emails, set up a client phone call, you know, optimize that travel time to the airport. When you're boarding an airplane and sitting there and you don't really have good cell service, personal development. Use that to read a book, listen to a podcast, journal, self-reflection, optimize that time where you're not actually working for self-improvement. During the actual flight and travel time, that's, I think, another great golden period of you can get so much work done and have no distractions. So I actually find that sometimes I'm the most productive on a 2-hour flight where I'm an hour and a half of just straight working through emails or projects, with no phone calls, no distractions. And then when you're actually like in the city working, or if you're at a client site, you know, make sure that you are still giving yourself time for the workout, time to eat meals. Like, don't skip on those. If there's a networking event, make sure that you've budgeted your schedule to know that, okay, I'm going to network from 8 PM to 10 PM, so I need to make sure when I get home I'm either asleep or I'm spending an hour of getting all these to-dos in before the next day. So again, when you're on the road, you just alternate and change the framework of, okay, my hours may be different of when I'm actually doing these tasks, but I've realigned them. So I know instead of doing emails at 7:00 AM, I now do them at 10:00 PM, but still ensuring that like you are implementing the same process that you use when you're just working from home.

1:08:13 Scott Ingram: Well done. It's so funny. The first flight thing, that's something I picked up and really have been doing ever since. So over, over 3 years, Mike Dudgeon talked about that. This is episode 1. Mike was the number 1 guy at LinkedIn. And what I didn't realize, I was like, oh, it makes perfect sense doing the first flight thing. And the other part of his thing was, you know, spend the extra night rather than taking the late flight and trying to get home and then just being sleep deprived and being messed up the next day. Instead, you know, spend another night on the road and then come home first thing in the morning because Very, very, very rarely are you going to have any issues with the first flight of the day. Travel issues stack up. So it's that late flight that is going to be the one that's going to be massively delayed or canceled, or you're just going to have issues. So it also solves a whole bunch of other stuff on the other side. So that's, that's a tip I picked up long, long ago and is powerful, not just for the reasons that you suggested, but just for the reasons of life and mechanics and delays and the way that the airlines kind of work in general. Jeremy, you said something in the beginning and I took a very poor note. You said something about you learned from a particular failure and hopefully that's enough to refresh your memory and we can talk about what that experience was.

1:09:31 Jeremy Terman: Yeah. So let me re-jog there. As I think on that, Scott, let me touch on one more point, which is sleep matters. I didn't address this earlier in process. Like, I need at least 6. If I get 6 hours of sleep, I can function. 8 is my max. I do not need more than 8 hours of sleep. Like you mentioned, this is Saturday. We started recording at 7. I was up at 6. I don't need alarms because my body is so trained that I guess it's to my default. I can't sleep in. Like, I've never been able to sleep in ever. And so once I hit that 8 hours, I'm full-blown, I can go full speed. If someone needs to sleep for 12 hours to fully be there, then you just have to be very deliberate with the other 12 hours of, I need to make sure I'm squeezing the time as effective as possible. And I know people that can do it on 4 hours and it's like, wow, you're just a machine. But understanding how much sleep you need to be effective is truly important.

1:10:30 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Great call out. And my number's about 7 hours. You know, to your point, I function pretty well on 6, but if I do that too many days in a row, it's going to become a problem. And 8 is a luxury. I'll take it if I can get it, but doesn't always happen. I think you talked about the failure story maybe in your top 3. It was very, very early.

1:10:47 Jeremy Terman: So Scott, that's a great question. Evaluating failure. I actually almost lost one of the biggest deals when I was in outside sales because this client was so on me about being at the lowest cost. And I was just getting my mind around and working with our finance team to like, get the finances to work from our end. And then at the very end of the conversation, the guy says, yeah, I'm going to go with your competitor. And then I said, well, what rate are you using with the competitor? And it was drastically higher than what I was doing at DoorDash. And I said, wait, that doesn't make sense. Walk me through that thought process. Why are you willing to pay them relatively 30% more on the cost than what we were charging? And he's like, oh, well, it's, you know, the brand name and this is the value that you're adding. And I realized, wow, I didn't do a good job of discovering and uncovering the needs of what they truly wanted. And so that allowed me to understand the true value and decision-making process of that client. And so I was able to help shift and pivot and really help explain the value add of DoorDash and how we were different and actually ended up signing them at the rate that the other competitor matched. So instead of going completely undercut, which I had had finance promise, we were able to match the other rates based on proving the value. And I think this kind of is a good lesson that I've taught myself from that deal and for others, which is if you truly think you understand what they're making their decision criteria on, you need to gut-check that and do an affirmation statement with the client or have that in your writing that you know how they're going to make that decision because I misread the client and I thought that the motives were purely based on financials. And I tried squeezing to the bottom penny that we could on our side when really the value that needed to happen was being able to build a brand with them. They cared about their external branding. They cared about the quality and the day-to-day execution. And so I was able to reshift that mindset. And really pull out the data points that allowed them to feel comfortable and then get the deal executed.

1:12:57 Scott Ingram: Love that. Love that. Love that. And let's continue down that path. I wonder what's the most important decision you've made or the most important lesson you've learned just along the way to get where you are today? What was that?

1:13:11 Jeremy Terman: So I think that very initial decision I made when graduating college was to either go take an uncertain job at a startup, Pocket Points, make half of the money, have no full future of where that role could go versus entering Verizon. I would be a B2B sales rep at 22, making 6 figures with a path to become director by mid-30s. So I had like a pivotal point to choose. Do I want to go corporate America? I built a brand name for myself there at a very young age and basically climbed the ladder very fast. And I met with the dean of the business school at Mizzou. And when she and I were talking, she said, you are a builder and creator. Take the risk and go to Pocket Points. And so ever since I made that decision, like I would not be at DoorDash had I made that. And if you actually rewind, I wouldn't have even been at Pocket Points had I not been a Sigma Chi and had I not been elected the president of Sigma Chi. And so how does this affect others listening? Today as well. It's the decisions you make take you down drastic paths. And I think when you evaluate a decision, money is not the end decision criteria. Like, I'm probably making double what I would be making at Verizon right now, but I took that first step of making half the money originally. And so luck favors the prepared hand is a good quote. If you put yourself in a position to succeed based on what you know will make yourself successful long-term, you're going to end up in the right path. And for me, that path is, you know, I want to be an executive and run a company, whether it's a startup, early seed startup with 4 or 5 people, or, you know, a public company potentially. I know that I need to build the foundation and the toolset. And so every decision that I've made ever since that initial Pocket Points versus Verizon has really helped me keep going to where that end state actually is.

1:15:08 Scott Ingram: That's really good. I wonder if now looking back at that, because I think it's fascinating to think back to those big decision points and think back to the big forks in the road and think about, well, what would it have been like if I went down that other path? Do you think that you made those decisions right? Sort of 2 sides to this question. Is there anything that you would have done differently? And is there anything now that would have helped you to make those decisions better or that you use to make those better decisions kind of going forward?

1:15:39 Jeremy Terman: Yeah, that's a great question. I think one thing I would always change from a… if I could keep going back in time, is focus on personal growth. Like, it's never too late to start reading. It's never too late to listen to podcasts, create your own podcasts, like allowing yourself to be creative with what you want. And don't let the, oh, this is too difficult, stop you. I think had I like done a little bit more personal development earlier on for like myself, I would be a better business professional. I would also have spent more time networking. And one thing around the networking front, which has been a key pillar of making me successful, is more so learning from other people. And that's what I try to take when I join a new organization or a new role in a company. I ask every team member on that team and/or as many as I can, depending on the size of the org, And I throw a 30-minute invite on their calendar and say, like, what made you successful? What do you think makes you great at your job? And I take notes and I then understand and build my own. Okay. I take 30 people. I take the top 1 or 2 things from each person that I know will apply to me. And then I go execute. And so that's something that if I had kept doing that earlier on, and it kind of seems not cool, like if you're, so tell me, Scott, what has made you successful? Like, If you're doing that right outta college, you know, oh, what are you asking for? Like, you need to be genuine with that mindset. But if as soon as you can, you can start talking to other successful professionals in your field or other industries and learn from them and help build your own style, that will make you successful. And I think that truly is building your own style and building your own framework needs to happen. Like, you can use, like, I was Axiom Sales certified. From Verizon, and I take some of that Axiom sales training and apply that to my selling style. But parts of it were too awkward and I didn't feel blended well with how I sell. And so I took parts of that. And so I think what people should do is, yeah, rely on sales theories and practices and hear what others have done. But in order to be a true, like, successful professional, and this is in my eyes, you need to have your own playbook that you have built. And it's okay to share best practices, don't reinvent the wheel, but you need to have your own take and your own style to be successful.

1:18:04 Scott Ingram: That's the secret. Really, you know, after all of these conversations, I think you said it perfectly. That really is the name of the game. You have to find your formula, and there's really no shortcuts there, right? You have to do the work, you have to learn a lot of different things. You have to put in the effort. You have to have a lot of conversations and experiment a lot and screw up a lot. And, you know, over time figure out what that is for you. And you're never going to finish. I'll tell you that much. Sitting, sitting a little bit further out from my perspective, I feel like in a lot of ways I have that, but it's not done. It'll never be done. It'll never be perfect. Right. I will continue to evolve. I will continue to grow. The market and the world around me is gonna continue to change and continue to evolve. So it's really just continuing to put those couple of things together. So extraordinarily well said, Jeremy. Is there something you believe that the average sales professional would think is crazy?

1:19:05 Jeremy Terman: Well, I think that work hard mentality. Some say work hard, play hard. I'd say work hard. Like I'm not the biggest partier out there and people will contest, like I like to have fun and go out. But I'm very deliberate in like what I do. And so I would probably say that I am on that side of, I think it's okay to work long hours. And granted, I am earlier in my career and don't have a family yet. So I think it's easier for me to say that, but maybe that is until you do have that family or to that state where you want to find the balance. I think it's okay to have an unhealthy work-life balance. But I also am super passionate about what I do. And so I find it okay that because I'm so passionate about the companies that I work for and believe that the products truly make a difference, that spending more hours of the day doing that is fine for me.

1:19:59 Scott Ingram: Yeah. That perspective I think is so interesting because the reality is, so a rule of Scott, and I have thought this and been saying this since my early 20s, because I think it was at that point that I recognized, and you know, I also very entrepreneurial, I, you know, started my my first company when I was 20 years old. My rule has always been, if you don't love what you do, then it's work and work sucks. So when it comes to work-life balance, yeah, if you're working at something that does suck and it's just a grind and you're doing that for 12 or 14 hours a day, that seems pretty crazy. But if you get a lot of joy and fulfillment from the work that you do, I mean, I think about what drives me and what drives all of these extra projects and the work that I do. With the Sales Success Community and all of this, I love it. It's such rewarding work. So yeah, does it take a lot of effort and a lot of time? Sure. But to me, it's kind of my fun. You know, I can't think of anything else I'd really rather do that like, oh, well, if I had all the money in the world, this would be more fun. I don't even know what that is.

1:21:07 Jeremy Terman: Yeah, I think it's finding out what you're passionate about is really difficult because, you know, when you do graduate college and I was fortunate to not have debt, heavy debt over my shoulders. But if you graduate and you have that debt, you have to do something to make money. And if that do something is a job that was your only option or only a couple of options, then you just have to stick with it. So there's the Gary Vs of the world that are out there trying to motivate you to stop doing what you don't want, make the money. Yeah, sometimes I think it's a little over the top, but like in theory it holds true. Like if you don't like what you do and it is work, then yeah, work is 9 to 5 or work is 8 to 4 and then you shut it off. But if you're able to find that passion and also still make the income, like I think that's probably another secret success of why I've been successful is I'm so passionate about what I do. And likewise, I mean, We could talk on this podcast days on days and like, it's fantastic. Like you engage with people, you just want to keep going. So then how do you turn that into a monetary income? You know, find how you can work with people and in industries and fields that allow you to feel that same type of fire, but then also, you know, are providing income for yourself and your family.

1:22:27 Scott Ingram: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So what about the flip side? Is there something that the average sales professional believes that you think is crazy?

1:22:34 Jeremy Terman: I think it goes back to like needing to have everything all like structured through that tech. Like, so back to our earlier conversation around, you need to use these tools and these processes, like you need to conform to this style. This is how we do it. Like, I think that it's crazy that you want to do a one-size-fits-all. Like when you go through like sales training processes at companies or sales philosophies, it's like, that's great and all, but you need people to be great at like what their foundation is. And yes, if you're super new to sales and you're learning, it's good to have a framework, but to elevate and really become the top, you have to build yourself, which I think also goes hand in hand with building personal brand. I'm starting to post a lot more on LinkedIn and I've seen, you know, the LinkedIn Sales Stars that you've created, Scott, and you look at those folks They're building their personal brand and putting content out there to help other folks. Like shifting to that mindset of sharing what you believe in also helps reinforce your core values, which I think again is probably something that the average sales world would say is like, oh no, no, no. Like believe me, we've done years of studies. We know this works. I would counter and say yes, but take parts of that and then make it yourself.

1:23:52 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Great stuff. How did you find me? Cause you, you reached out to me and I'm not sure that I asked or know the answer to this question.

1:23:59 Jeremy Terman: So I think there was Colin Camdes at Aircall was posting on LinkedIn and he had shared this LinkedIn Stars. And I think this just goes back to my genuine curiosity. I was like, what is this? Who built LinkedIn like sales superstars? Like what qualification metrics did they use to evaluate that? And so then I wound up, you know, looking at your page and what you've built and then the podcast. I was like, Hmm, there is a whole world of sales professionals that are working together. And I think this is a sidebar of, I just joined like Revenue Collective, which is a group for sales professionals, but it makes me think like there are worlds out there and networks that you are not tapped into and you will not get tapped into those markets unless you're willing to put yourself out there. So you fortunately replied quickly to my LinkedIn response. 'Cause I was, you know, did some research on you and said, hmm, this is very fascinating. I've been in the sales community for years. I've never listened or heard your podcast or seen it on my channels. So this entire ecosystem exists, but I don't know about it. How many other ecosystems are like this out there? How many different organizations are out there giving great content and value, but that's just simply not coming to me based on the channels that I follow? And so I think this could be a great takeaway for other folks as well, is You know, you need to put yourself out there. You need to be uncomfortable and try, you know, reaching out to people that you don't know and say, hey, I want to learn what you're doing and what you're building. And if you have that genuine and authentic mindset of connecting and building, and, you know, who knows where all of our careers go 2 years from now, if you build those relationships and foundations, that will also enable future business partnerships. So yeah, I think it was just through Colin's post and the natural mindset of trying to figure out Who's Scott Ingram and what's all this great content he's putting out there?

1:25:48 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. Well, and it's self-reinforcing, right? Because you actually said what my takeaway was from that, which is, you know, if you put your authentic genuine self out there and you know that's what I think of when I think of personal branding, then you start to attract your tribe, right? You find those like-minded. And so the fact that these dots got connected, and that's the other thing that happens. And again, we'll share another secret here because I think. Those that deserve the secrets are those that listen to the latter parts of these extraordinarily long interviews, is thousands of people saw all that stuff around the LinkedIn Sales Stars. Dozens, probably. I mean, it wasn't a huge number. It was, it was a good number. Maybe, maybe it was a couple hundred over the course of a month or two. But there's a real minority that really reaches out and there's different levels of outreach, right? It's one thing like, oh, this is interesting, I'm going to connect with Scott on LinkedIn. It's another level to say, oh, this is interesting, I'm going to dig just a little bit deeper into this and I'm going to send Scott a slightly more thoughtful note on LinkedIn. And we're getting to totally different layers and the percentages start to get really small, right? Probably 10% would go to that additional stage of I did a little bit more research and I sent a little bit more thoughtful note. And then there's folks that did what you did, and it's probably the top 1%. I don't think there's an accident in the numbers here that are gonna go, you know what, I'm really serious about this. I'm really gonna dig deeper and I'm really going to look to make a very meaningful connection. And I think the assumption that people make is, oh, well, there are hundreds or thousands of people reaching out in this way. And the reality is it's a really small, fairly… I'll caveat this a little bit. It's a fairly manageable number. I mean, I've been doing this podcast for years and the really thoughtful outreach that I get is still pretty manageable. I don't know that there's ever been a point that I'm completely overwhelmed. A little bit with the LinkedIn stuff, but only because it's the non-thoughtful stuff that gets in the way. It's the, I saw this, I want your time. Like, yeah, you look, you didn't earn the time. You can't have a 30-minute meeting just because you asked. There's got to be reason and purpose. And you reached out with reason and purpose. And here we are talking for a couple of hours, which that's the difference.

1:28:14 Jeremy Terman: Yeah. I think it's going back to like, what are my goals? Like, I want to help build and create many different businesses out there. And I'm also like the starting my podcast. Like I selfishly also reached out because I have seen how long you've been running your podcast and your form and style's a little different than mine, but I'm not going to lie, your little cheat sheet of saying, here are the questions I'm going to ask on the interview, that's a best practice that I want to take and use on the Summit podcast that I'm doing with my partner because I think that's a great tool. So I just had genuine curiosity of what's making you successful. I think it just all goes back to all the different businesses I've worked in and industries. It is just a natural desire to connect with people. And like you've said, Scott, like you see yourself in me, I see myself in you. It's kind of meta and weird, but it goes back to if you know that this is your style, you just need to put yourself out there because people will open up their arms, times, and calendars to talk with you because those type of people will care. So if you're hesitant and scared, you just need to do it. And then you'll become comfortable and then you realize, wow, even though I didn't know Scott today, the next time I go to Austin, Texas, you're going to be getting a text and we're going to grab lunch or a beer because, you know, of one simple outreach of, hey, if he doesn't respond, what's the worst thing that happens? But now what's the best case? Now I have another sales professional that we can share stories and successes and learn from each other.

1:29:41 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Game on, man. Game on. And so much of what I've tried to do is really kind of lower that bar, right? So that it doesn't have to be one-to-one where now you can do it within community. You can just come to Austin in October and meet everybody all in one place. It's… I'm really trying to make this easy. You just gotta, you gotta take advantage of what I'm putting out there, right? So Jeremy, what advice would you give to somebody that's just getting started in their sales career today? Maybe they're coming out of college. Man, would this be a weird time to be coming out of college. But what would you suggest that they do and how they think about this?

1:30:16 Jeremy Terman: Yeah, that's a great question. So I think build your own foundation. So be as open as possible to learn, listen to the different sales philosophies, theories, listen to podcasts, read books, just open up your mind to what others have to say because you need to start building your own foundation of what's gonna make me successful. So be open, start to build your foundation.

1:30:38 Scott Ingram: Part 1.

1:30:39 Jeremy Terman: Part 2, build a process. Figure out how you want to build your days. Start testing. Do I want to call in the early mornings? Do I want to call late at night? What are my emails? What are my cadences? Figure out, you know, what is going to work for me and like talk to the other peers. Like if you are joining a company, the first thing you should do is put calendar with the top successful reps and say, what do you do to be successful? And start building that network of understanding who is successful at the business. And why they're successful. And then lastly, at the end of the day, it's hard work. Like people notice putting in the extra hours. You know, we track activity. I'm sure a lot of companies do to look at rep optimization. There is a strong correlation of output to top sales reps, those that are making the most calls, those that are talking to the most decision makers and being persistent in their follow-up. Are the most successful reps. So put your effort out there and work as hard as possible. And if you find after a year that you worked extremely hard and you didn't get the payoff, then you maybe need to take a reset and change either industries or change philosophies or reach out for help. But if you work as hard as you can and build an internal process that you can trust and be open to feedback, you will be successful.

1:32:01 Scott Ingram: So it's so funny that you suggest that. I just pulled this up. I saw a post this morning from Kyle Coleman, is one of those LinkedIn Sales Stars. And he's actually, this post is blowing up pretty good because he tells the story of an SDR that was looking for a promotion and she overachieved on the results, right? So it was 122% of meetings or whatever it was, but underachieved on the activities and she got passed over. Because of that, or that was the excuse, was, you know, your activities aren't there enough. I agree with that. That is right on. Like, if you're not looking at the final results, then that's stupid. But I think the majority of the time what you'll find is a high correlation between those who are at the top are not only leading with their results, but they're also leading with their activity levels. It's pretty rare that my quality is so much better than yours that I can do half the quantity. I think what you find is the reason that you get to high quality is because you've done a lot of quantity and it's the repetitions that have built your quality and allowed you to be good.

1:33:15 Jeremy Terman: I definitely agree. I think the last piece to that too is internal networking. Like at the end of the day, like every company has their own politics. You need to know where people are aligned. Everyone is trying to advance their career. So if you know where your manager is headed, or for that gal in that specific position, you know, have internal advocates that will work for you. When I was trying to get to the enterprise partnerships team at DoorDash, that was a super small team that everyone wanted. I looked at all the different influencers, not just of that role, but of all the people around the role. And I said, where can I help? What can I do to learn? So before I even join that position, I already know who are the people that I'm working with, what are they focused on, where are the gaps? Can I take 10% of my time and do a small 10% project and team up with someone on that team that then I can learn the ins and outs of that business without actually doing it? And, you know, there's a saying that, you know, promote yourself is to find ways for more efficiencies so then someone else can backfill it and/or do the role so well that you need to do another role. So work yourself out of a job. And I think part of that goes into, you know, in your career, you need to build a foundation and show that you can be successful. But as you are in that career, in that role, you should be networking with other people internally to understand where are their paths, and then where can I help those people elevate their careers, which will then allow myself to plug in and be parts of those teams.

1:34:42 Scott Ingram: Yeah, great stuff. So, this next one is a really interesting question in this time. And I think in a lot of ways you're in a very, very fortunate position, but you know, you were doing the right things all along. It's not like you just lucked into this and happened to be in the right spot. And because of our current environment and current situation, you know, you're doing amazingly well. You were already at the top, but I always like to ask what advice you would have for somebody that is further into their career and is either, you know, they're good, but they haven't found a way to great or they're stuck. I'm going to reframe this a little bit and say, you know, what advice would you give to somebody that basically is stuck now through no fault of their own? Right. The environment changed around them and they don't work for DoorDash, which is blowing up because of the need and the current environment, but maybe they're on the opposite side. What's your advice for them?

1:35:34 Jeremy Terman: Yeah. So I think, you know, if you are open to shifting careers, that is definitely part one. So I think you should always be networking. I network with people all the time. I love DoorDash and want to be at DoorDash for the indefinite future, but I network with other companies to see what's going on. I've been poached or tried to be poached many times, but I haven't ever left DoorDash because I love it so much. But I have always had feelers out there and are connected with people that are building businesses. So one, make sure that you're constantly networking. It's okay. Your boss will be fine with that. They want you to succeed. If you have a good boss, they want you to be happy and successful. The second is protecting your family in the back pocket. You need to make money. If you're in a role that's stuck, I would look and say, okay, I have to be selfish here. What is going to make me money? Ideally, you could be in the philosophy of what's best for the business, and hopefully what's best for the business is best for me. But you should look at and see if I am gold on X amount of revenue, where are the clients that I can get the revenue from? And during a difficult time, if those top clients aren't gonna be the true revenue source, can you build a different strategy to then attack smaller clients and get more of them to subsidize for that, like the lost revenue from the higher value clients, but like building a new playbook. And again, this could vary on industry. So happy to have people one-off and, and have different sessions on this, but evaluating the landscape of, okay, I need to make money. So where can I optimize the most money for myself versus taking the lens of what's best for the business? Because in these difficult times, you need to take care of yourself.

1:37:16 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Great, great stuff. So I love that you have also started to really dig into the podcast and have listened to a number of these episodes. In addition to the places that I typically go, is there something else that you would want to know about the top sellers in other organizations?

1:37:32 Jeremy Terman: So I always encourage reaching out to top sellers. If you are a top seller and/or are not, the one thing I always ask first is like, what makes you great? Because I think that's such a fascinating question because it like gut checks them to be like, hmm, okay. That usually takes them a few seconds to come up with an answer, but I always like to know like, why do they think they're the best? Kind of the initial, like first 3 questions of what makes you great. That also shows self-reflection because it is, you have to internalize, you know, I've been in the professional world for 5, 6 years. Others have been 20, 30 plus, like I'm sure they have their recipes for success, but to really boil it down into the main categories of what's made them successful, I always love learning. And then on the other podcast, it is to the small, tiny efficiency gains, like me reading when I board the plane to when I get Wi-Fi is 40 minutes. Like that little 40-minute hack has drastically changed like my personal growth. So always learning like what is that small little thing that you do that is 5x yourself?

1:38:40 Scott Ingram: Nice. How do you answer the question, what makes you great?

1:38:43 Jeremy Terman: It's purely my passion. I talk about the companies that I work for way too much. When I go to a restaurant with Katie, she says you cannot pitch DoorDash here. And this is something that when I was in local sales was so pertinent because that was my job. Like every market that I was in, if there wasn't a restaurant on the platform, like that's business. I owned the entire market. Like I needed to get the sale. So to my own fault is like never turning off, but that's because I am so passionate in the companies I believe in. So if you can work for a business where you're so passionate, again, back to your earlier statement, Scott, work becomes a hobby. This is fun. I love working. I love DoorDash. I love the people that I work with. Yes, it's my job that pays the bills, but it is in some perspective a hobby that I'm doing. And so that passion to work for a business that you enjoy or an industry that excites you, that's constantly innovating, or if it's not innovating, you know, finding whatever wakes you up every morning to drive. I could work every day a week, which you kind of are right now, and still love what you do.

1:39:48 Scott Ingram: Greatness. Greatness. All right. Well, we have come to the end. We have covered a ton of ground. And now the trick is to make it super actionable. So what would you challenge the person listening to this to do right now over the course of the next, say, 1 to 2 weeks to improve themselves and improve their results?

1:40:08 Jeremy Terman: Yeah, it's a great question. Reach out to 5 people. That you are looking to learn from and genuinely take the time to figure out who those 5 people are over the next couple of weeks, connect with them and try to set up a call, but be very intentional. You don't need a full agenda, but have a purpose and reason for that connection. So that's part 1. Part 2, there is a lot of downtime that you are at home. Find that side passion or start thinking more about what is really going to wake me up every day at 6, 7, 8:00 AM. And make me love what I do and start looking for those companies. If it's a product, if you really love Lululemon, is there a sales role or is there an account management role in Lululemon that you want to go work for them? And then lastly would be evaluate your process. Do you truly think you're as effective as possible? And if you aren't, start looking hour by hour. It's a super silly task, but if you Have a piece of paper and every 30 minutes document at the highest level what you did the last 30 minutes, and then do that for a full week and then look at your days and say, wow, I am not effective with my time, or this is great. I actually want to shift this around. You'll be able to truly play with your own process to then optimize yourself.

1:41:25 Scott Ingram: Brilliant. Great advice, Jeremy. This has been a blast. You have made my Saturday morning and I hope you make the days of the folks that are listening to us. Really appreciate you. Really appreciate your time.

1:41:35 Jeremy Terman: Awesome. Thanks so much, Scott. Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast. To be sure you never miss an episode and for an invitation to our Sales Success Community powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter at top1.fm.