9: George Penyak and Mike Cochrane of Restaurant Technologies

0:08 Scott Ingram: You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve. To learn more, visit us at top1.fm. Here's your host, Scott Ingram.

0:25 Scott Ingram: Today on the Sales Success Stories podcast, we're doing something really unique. I actually have 2 guests, both from Restaurant Technologies. George Penyak was the number one sales exec for three years in a row before moving into his current role as a regional sales manager, where he led his team to number one in his first year last year. Also with us is a member of George's team, Mike Cochrane was the rookie of the year at Restaurant Technologies and had the best first year at the company. Welcome to the show, gentlemen.

0:53 Mike Cochrane: Thank you.

0:54 George Penyak: Thank you.

0:55 Scott Ingram: So before we get going, I realize I'm putting some extra strain on my post-production team and wanted to give them a shout out. So please know that this episode was hand-assembled with care by the team at Podfly.net. And like we always do here, in our attempt to frontload a lot of value in what I'm sure is going to be a rather lengthy episode, I've asked both George and Mike to prepare their list of 3 things that they believe have allowed them to get to and stay at the top of their respective leaderboards. And let me just say, while I know that this isn't on either of their lists, one of the reasons that I can tell they're the best is because of their preparation. These guys put a lot of effort into preparing for today's conversation, and I know I can just hand off to them for this segment on their top 3 things because of the work they've already put in. So with that, I'll let the 2 of you take it away. Perfect.

1:41 George Penyak: Uh, thanks, Scott. I'm gonna let Mike take the first of his top 3 keys to success because we're gonna kind of piggyback off each other on these. A lot of them are very similar. Um, you know, I see a lot of Mike in myself, and I think, uh, he sees the same way, vice versa. So I'm gonna let him lead this one off.

1:59 Mike Cochrane: All right, I think, you know, the thing that has been It's very important for me, and I think it's very important for any sales rep in any role, is to have an extremely keen sense of self-awareness. You've just got to know who you are. You know, you've got to be able, and probably more important, willing to look in the mirror and realize the couple of things that you're good at, the couple of things that maybe you're sort of so-so at, and then the things that, and this is the hard part, you know, the things that maybe you're not so good at. And then once you, you know, the reason that's important to know that is because you always want to engage the prospect through an area of strength. For me personally, I would much prefer, and I'll just give you an example, I would much prefer to engage a prospect in person as opposed to on the phone. You know, you can pick up so many things. I read something the other day that said that 90% of the information that comes to your brain actually comes to you or comes to your brain through your eyes. It comes to you visually. And so, you know, I want to be in person. I want to be talking to someone in person. I want to see the physical cues. I want to see the, you know, the facial expressions and those types of things. So for me, I don't feel like I'm as good on the phone. I feel like I'm much better in person. So I'm always going to engage a prospect in person as opposed to over the phone, just because I know that I'm much better at that.

3:18 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

3:19 George Penyak: And, and secondly, to add to that, that leads a great segue into my, uh, top key for success and, and something I personally believe, um, can be echoed throughout all salespeople in all industries is confidence. And I think you, you really have to have a bulletproof self-confidence in yourself and your abilities and what you're doing every single day. Um, I think in the sales world, uh, confidence can definitely be twofold. So I think you have confidence in yourself, which needs to be bulletproof every single day. And then you also have to have confidence in the product or service you're representing. So once you, once you've reached that point to where you're, you're bulletproof in your confidence, you're going to go out there and execute. But you may have a little bit of lacking confidence in your product or service, reach out, pivot, find out what you need to do to be able to marry up bulletproof confidence in yourself, but also that product or service you're representing. And to be brutally, you know, honest about it, if you have a shred of self-doubt… so say you're, you're somewhat confident, you know, I really think it's just black and white, you're either fully confident or not… you shouldn't walk out the door if there's a, there's a shred of doubt. And you really need to figure out what the root cause of your confidence is, whether it is… whether it be speaking, whether it be the product or service you're representing, and fix that immediately. I've been very fortunate in my career. I felt that my, my confidence has always been there, but to be honest, my confidence always wasn't there throughout my sales career representing different products and services and the product or service I represented. So once you marry up both that bulletproof confidence in yourself and the bulletproof confidence you have in your product, That's what's going to drive success for you. That's what's really going to take you to the next level. So I think a lot of your audience can sympathize one way or the other, but once you make, once you make that match, it's, it's, it's unbelievable. Um, your, your potential is literally uncapped.

5:08 Mike Cochrane: George, uh, you know, I'll add back in, uh, I think a second thing for me, and it really kind of plays off the, the confidence issue, is I think anybody in a sales role has to have a natural curiosity. I mean, that's the second thing for me. I, it, it's just a curiosity, not only in the, in the sales role and in your, in your prospect and so forth, but just how things work, you know, how, what, what makes this machine work? What makes that company profitable? Why did they do this as opposed to doing that? What made this person react in a certain way? So, you know, if you go, if you are confident in yourself and you're confident in your product and the company you work for and everything else, You can walk into somebody very, very open. You're just a sponge. You know, you can go in there. You're not really worrying about what you're going to say. You know that you've got confidence in your product and in your ability to articulate the value of it. So you're really not worried about that. You're just a sponge. You're asking questions about not only their business, but about them and their background and their person, you know, and just, I think just that natural curiosity of just being willing and open to kind of let your guard down and take in as much information as you can is a huge help. It's a huge help for anybody in sales. Um, I think one, it makes you more knowledgeable. You know, if you're asking questions about the industry and taking in information about the industry, then you become more knowledgeable as far as product knowledge and industry knowledge. And then I think, you know, I mean, it's just human nature. If you are, if you have a genuine interest in someone and you're asking about them and their background, maybe their family, where they went to school, where they grew up, Uh, it helps you to learn more about them and in which you, you know, one, it's interesting to know. And 2, uh, hopefully at some point when the time is right, you can use that to hopefully close the sale.

6:54 George Penyak: Yeah, absolutely. And, and good to go back to the confidence piece one time, because when we're talking about a customer interaction, that's really when your confidence shines through. So confidence is what, no matter what you're doing, it's going to be worn on your sleeve. So there may be reps out there that think that they're lacking some confidence and they may think that they sound great. But in reality, it's gonna eventually come through in the end. So having the confidence in your product and service, then having interactions with your customers, you can then focus solely on what the customer prospect is saying, what they're doing, genuinely, authentically learn about their business and forge better partnerships and stronger partnerships when you're absolutely bulletproof confident in what you're talking about. And that, some of that can be an education piece, learning your product or service better and fully understand the market inside and out, do market research. I, um, Yeah, one of the things I tell my reps a lot is to read up on what your customers are reading. So it's, it's always good to do the, the podcasts and the professional development, everything we do outside of, outside of work to make ourselves better. But I think we also have to be attentive to what our customers and prospects are listening to and what are they educating themselves on and always being up on the market. It sounds like Sales 101, but I think we'd both be surprised if we really knew how many reps actually do that. And so, so pivoting off of that though, my second key to success is really finding a passion for, for your role as well as the service and product you're offering. Um, you know, passion is a big driver, I believe, of communication skills. I think if someone thinks they're lacking in communication one way or another, whether it be public speaking, whether it be interviewing… is actually a skill, um, you know, whatever that piece is, working with a customer in a meeting, get gathering research for yourself, um, if you really don't have a passion for what you're doing, that's going to show through as well. So you really don't have to work on communication skills. Find the passion, marry that up, and the communication skills will often come with that. You know, you don't really have to do much polishing on your communication aspect if you truly are passionate, because that really shines through in the end. And I think all of us here, you know, sitting here at this table can, can think of a time they've seen someone that, that, you know, that person's extremely passionate in what they're talking about. And then there's been plenty of times where you see people and just say, you know, they just, they just don't seem to be putting forth the effort. I think the passion's lacking. So, um, and listen, I have a lot of friends that are following their passion and they're, they're, they're living in their mother's basement. I'm not saying follow your passion. I think, I think what a lot of people that preach follow your passion, follow your passion, what they've really done is they found a passion through their work. So I think it's a little bit opposite. So I want everyone to have a good work-life balance and have a passion outside of work. But if you really want to reach an elite level, find the passion for what you're doing. It can be found. Um, and I think once you find your self-confidence first and the confidence in the product, you'll find that your happiness is there and that passion will, that passion will come from within and it shows through.

9:45 Mike Cochrane: My third thing, well, I'll back up just a little bit. I completely agree with, with what George is saying. George and I have some similar backgrounds in that, you know, maybe prior positions that we were in, we were not completely passionate about, you know, the product, the service, the company, what have you. And, and now working with Restaurant Technologies, I think one thing that George and I share is that we are completely confident and comfortable and, you know, and really appreciate the product and the company and the service. And so, um, yeah, that, that passion is definitely there and it, and it makes it much, much easier to go out and, and, and, you know, do your job. The third thing for me though, that I think that has, that has helped me is just having a, a good understanding of, of the probability of closing a sale. You know, when you engage a prospect and you're, and you're talking to someone and you're gathering information, um, you know, we've all been there. We, we've all had a situation to where, you know, maybe deep in the back of your mind you're thinking this might not work. You know, this, this person, this, this guy, this lady is just not grasping what I'm telling them. It's not, it's just not coming together, but you've already put so much time and effort into it that you're afraid to back away. You know, you want to continue to do that. And on one of our team calls, I think it was last week, uh, Lee, one of our very successful reps, uh, had a great year last year, made that exact point that moving into next year, he wanted to just have that ability to, when he sees it going south, Go ahead and break loose and go into something else that may be a little bit more productive. So I think one of the things that has helped me is being able to see that, being able to just get a sense of when this thing is not going to work. Go ahead, break away, go over into something else that's going to be much more productive.

11:35 George Penyak: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a big differentiator in your lower or medium performing reps and then your higher performing reps is how they value time. And that's not my third, that's not my third key to success, but I just want to touch on that a little bit because, um, time is really, when you boil it down, if you strip everything away, all, all we have is time. And I think, I think you have to work and live like, you know, your time is, you know, time is, is gold. It's, it's literally the, the most valuable asset a sales rep has while they're in the field. And I think your top-performing reps recognize that And I think they almost have a guilt of wasting 30 minutes, wasting an hour, not getting a positive ROI on something that they're working on. So, um, so really that's, that's a big piece on how they think. It's how I think. I mean, I, you know, whether it be 15 minutes, an hour here, an hour there, it all adds up because in the end we're all trying to reach a, a certain goal at the end of the year, whether it be quarterly, annually, um, biannually. But you really have that… that time is gold and it has to be spent as best as possible. A lot of that goes into preparation, but I'm sure we'll touch on time as we go through this podcast some more. But, um, my third key to success is the competitive drive. So once you've understood your own self-confidence, you're, you're very self-aware, you know, you understand where your strengths are, you're leveraging those every day, um, internally and externally, and you found that passion for your role, um, the third pillar is you have to have that competitive drive. You can't be Um, okay with being a medium performer. You can't really go into the year hoping. A lot of that stuff goes away when you, when you, when you have that self-confidence, you know your potential is uncapped. But I think a lot of the medium to lower performing reps just hope. They really hope they're going to have a good year. And competitive, I mean, that's… it's really hardwired. It's a very black and white binary thing. Um, you know, being competitive, you're going into the year, you know you're going to finish at the top. There's, there's, there's, there's no other alternative. And, uh, kind of, kind of that phrase, failure is not an option. And, you know, I didn't really understood what that mean… what that meant until I really got into the meat of my sales career. When you're… when you really start ramping up and taking off and you found that white space that is your self-confidence, a passion for your role, and you're just refusing to lose, you're going to do whatever it takes to finish at the top. And, you know, I, I think, like I said, some of that's hardwired. I think You know, some people are raised in a competitive environment, whether it be through sports or, or something that they did growing up, and that carries over very well and transitions to a lot of success in the sales industry. But, um, but you always just have to win and you, you always have to look at upside. Um, it drives me nuts when I hear, you know, coworkers, peers at, at former companies I worked for, and, and they're always looking at the downside and the negative. And I'm, I, I almost, I just point blank wanna ask 'em why. Why are we even considering downside? Us as salespeople, we control our time. We can move on. There should be nothing but upside and momentum to anything that we're doing. Yes, we're going to lose. We're going to take our losses. You're not going to win them all, but you literally, you know, you literally just can't dwell on losses. You might want to learn a little bit, learn a little bit. I mean, learn something from those losses, but don't dwell because there's always, there's always something coming next. And Something I grew up that's carried over with me into sales, and, and this may sound kind of cheesy bringing up, um, football, but I grew up playing football, uh, collegiately and through high school. And, um, and one of the, one of the, the biggest things, the impacts, uh, one of the biggest impact that my coach had on me into my sales career here is he said the most important play in football is always the next play. So you never worry about what happened before, what happened in the first quarter, what happened at the beginning of the game, what happened last game, what happened last play. Forget about it. The, the biggest thing you need to focus on is your next move and how you execute that next move. And I think if you start thinking more forward and stop worrying about what happened before and just keep your eye on the prize, that competitive drive will eventually come out. So those, just to kind of put it in summary, those are my 3 biggest things, is understanding your own self-confidence both in yourself and the product or service you're offering, uh, finding that passion for the product and service that you're offering, because that'll drive a lot of your communication skills. And then having that competitive drive, you got… you have to be at a point where you can't stand losing and you never want to look behind you because you always think someone's right there on your heels. And, you know, as salespeople, we're all sized up the same. You know, we're sized up by our numbers. And so, you know, it's total meritocracy, which is why I love the field and industry of sales. And so that, to summarize everything, those would be my 3.

16:15 Scott Ingram: That's awesome, guys. Really good stuff here. And before I follow up on these lists, because I do have some additional questions with Mike and George, uh, and we're obviously going to be digging a lot deeper, but I hope you'll help me thank our inaugural sponsor who literally made this show possible. And that is Nudge. Nudge is a modern sales platform that leverages relationship strength to help you find and keep your best customers. I literally use Nudge every day myself. And if you value relationships the way I do, then you're going to want to check out Nudge and you can sign up for free at neednudge.com. That's N-E-E-D-N-U-D-G-E dot com. I think that's our last commercial. So, Mike, I wanted to go back with you, and I mean a lot of the things you both talked about, I think do a good job of starting to encapsulate the themes that are starting to emerge from this show now that we've had a fair number of conversations, right? This this idea of self-awareness and leveraging your strength and having that confidence or or belief and passion. Um, you know, all of those items are, are really, really key. But Mike, you talked about the probability of closing, and the way I think about that is… I, I guess the term would be qualifying, but I think there's maybe more to it, right? There's, there's… call it a deal radar or, or some sort of sense that you have about that. How are you kind of tuning that ability to both spot the, the deals that even though you may have wasted a lot or invested, excuse me, you may have spent a lot of time on, but you know ultimately isn't going to close. How, how are you identifying that? And more importantly, what are you then doing about it when, when you know, hey, I'm probably spinning my wheels here?

18:04 Mike Cochrane: Well, yeah, in terms of how do I identify it, um, I, I think that goes back to one of my points of The fact that I enjoy, to me, it just works out much better when I am in person. You know, when I am, when I am in person and I can, I can look at the body language, I can see everything that is going on, you know, at a restaurant. George and I obviously serve the restaurant industry. Um, you know, if, if I find out about something and I call them on the phone, there's so many things that I just cannot see. I can't physically see the location. I can't, you know, there's so much information that I don't have. So how do I identify it? If I, you know, I can go in and, and it, it, it is just a, it's a, it's a sense that you get, you know, as you start to engage with someone, um, you're picking up so many different clues from them, not only what they're saying, but how they're, you know, their body language and everything else. So, uh, how do you identify it? It's hard to put into words. It's, it's probably a lot of experience and, and, you know, is somebody really Grasping the concepts? Are they, are they asking, what questions are they asking? Um, what's their voice inflection? A lot of things that you look for. And, and I will say this, and it's almost easier to know when you don't have it than when you do have it. I think sometimes I'm out talking to a client, listening to what they're having to say. And it's very obvious that this is not going to go, you know, and it's easy to make that call. Um, sometimes, you know, I've had people, I had a presentation the other day at a very large resort, golf resort hotel. The body language that the, that the client was giving me was not really the best, but the questions he was asking were fantastic. And I really got the sense that, all right, this thing is going to go, this thing is going to work. So you just have to take it all into consideration and look at all the different things you're picking up from this person and then go with there. Um, what do you do about it at that point? You know, you just, it's a matter of where you're going to put your time. You know, if you're, if you're getting that sense, um, you know, if, if that, if that sixth sense is, is going off, um, you just, you know, you just have to focus in on what that person is telling you both physically and, and, you know, through their words. Uh, what is their, what is their pain? And then make certain that, that when you, you know, when it's your time to now present and go through a proposal, that you address those things that you picked up from that person.

20:36 Scott Ingram: And you mentioned, you mentioned the time, and, and George, you talked about that as well. I wanted to kind of circle back with you, and, and as you were talking about the, the competitive drive and just knowing that you were going to be number one for the year, what, what did your… what does your planning look like, whether it be for the year or the month or the quarter, to help you develop that level of confidence and, and knowingness that I'm gonna be number one because this is the plan I'm going to execute? How are you, how are you developing that?

21:06 George Penyak: Yeah, so we're, you know, Mike and I both are in outside sales, so we, we go out and see physically customers every single day. Um, the, the plan really is at the beginning of the year, once you get your number, it really becomes a… it's never been… the number's never been an issue. I don't really plan around numbers. I just want to go out and execute every single day. And a lot of it comes back to, you know, having the confidence in the product Um, understanding my strengths and, and my level of confidence I am myself and being comfortable with that. But, um, from a day-to-day planning standpoint, it's different. It's so often so different. There's, there's never, there's never one plan or structure that I'll go out and execute and it'll last one year, one quarter. It's going to pivot almost weekly. Um, we do market plans every single year. I'm sure as many folks listening to this, um, do as well. But, but in reality, after Q1, you can look at your market plan and really it's… you have it, you have your roadmap there of customers, but everything… the market changes so quickly, technology changes so quickly, you just have to be able to adapt every single day. And I think that's what has really helped drive my success is my ability to adapt and change to what's going on around me. And, and also I value time as gold. And so I maximize literally every single day. The customers will build the roadmap for you. You just have to go execute. Um, from a planning purpose though, it really, obviously the basics, prioritizing your day, prioritizing your time, realizing how valuable your time is. Um, one thing I do practice that I think has been a big contributor to my success as well as my teams, and I, I preach this to them as well, and it's, it's, it's a very simple practical tip that anybody can do tomorrow. And I think what I'm about to say is going to scare a lot of people. But, but you don't have to be on an airplane to use your phone in airplane mode. You can, you can disconnect for a little bit and get the meat and potatoes done of what you need to get done every single day. Um, one of the things that drives me nuts is, um, you wake up in the morning, I ask a lot of reps, you know, what's the first thing you do in the morning? And I'll meet reps from all different industries and they say, well, I just check my email. And I say, why? And they're like, Well, I, I just do. I want to see what's there. I want to see what came in overnight. And, and, and I just, I look at them and I'm like, what if you prioritize what you need to do every single day, top to bottom, soup to nuts? You have to execute on so many things and you have to say, what's the most important thing? What's that wildly important goal that I have to execute on? How high is checking the email? And that's going to fall really low. And then I question why people do it. So what I recommend doing is, is, is cut that phone off in airplane mode and get the meat and potatoes done. Of what you need to get done. And then you can always reopen your email at 11 AM, 10 AM. And trust me, that million-dollar contract that everyone's checking for, it's, it's rarely ever there at, at 7:30, 6:30 in the morning, 5:30 in the morning when you wake up. It's okay to disconnect. Feel comfortable with that and just go execute. And if that million-dollar contract is there, great, you'll get it at 10:30 and it'll feel… you'll have a really good lunch. But, um, you know, another, another thing is with that is I think there's a little paranoia about shutting your email down and disconnecting a little bit is, oh, what if I miss a call from that customer? What if I miss an email that's, that's a deal I've been waiting for? If you miss an email or, or miss a call and you lose a deal because of it, you weren't in a strong enough position to begin with with that customer to actually get that deal. That's just not true. So, so if you're waiting for a phone call or email to come through First 2 things, you've lost control of the sales cycle. You're waiting. I mean, you, you've, you, you've lost the timetable. There's the balls in their court, and something I never recommend doing. But, um, but, but, but secondly, you're… if you're gonna lose a deal over that, you're just not in a strong enough position to ever win it. So, um, so, so get done what you need to do. Prioritize, prioritize, prioritize, and then go execute. And, and believe in your training. Lean on your manager. Lean on your, um, lean on your sales leaders. Point you in the right direction. But it's okay, put it in airplane mode while you're on the ground. And I think that's why a lot of people feel like, man, on a 4-hour flight, I mean, I don't know about you, Mike, I think I cure cancer sometimes with all the work I get done. Um, just shut it down. You know, that's, that's probably the best way to, to get done what you need to get done. And then, you know, if someone emails you, they email you for a reason. It's there, you can respond to it later. But it's really prioritizing and executing, and that's That's, that's long-term, you know, the 2 pillars that I, that I live by when I, when I go about day to day.

25:37 Scott Ingram: That's great. And we will come back to that. I want to dig a little bit deeper into kind of how you're structuring and in this case planning for the day and for the week. So we will definitely get some more insights from both of you. And I know you guys actually had more. So we already covered kind of the 6 keys to success between the 2 of you, but I think, I think you have had 4 more to get us to an end. So what are those 4 other keys that you thought were critically important?

26:01 Mike Cochrane: You know, one of the… this is Mike… one of the things that to me is extremely important, and it might sound a little bit cliché-ish, if you will, but, but it's extremely important. You know, George and I serve the restaurant industry. Um, one of the things that, that we see within the restaurant industry, and it's probably true in a lot of industries, but, you know, an executive chef at this location may very well wind up being an executive chef at another location 2 months down the road. Or a director of operations for this regional chain may switch over and go to that regional chain. So at the end of the day, as you, as you, you know, work with these different organizations, you have got to do what's right for the customer. I mean, that's one thing that, that to me is, is just critical. It's crucial. Yes. You want to close deals. Yes. You want to get things done. Obviously, you know, I've got, I've got numbers to hit. That's the way I get paid. But, uh, I always want to keep the customer in mind. I want to, to put myself in their shoes. Um, and so if I go through my, my workday and I am thinking only of myself and I am just trying, looking very, very short-term in nature, and I'm trying to just close deals, this person that I worked with, you know, at this restaurant today, when, you know, 2 months from now when I'm over at another location, they might be over at that location or they may be very good friends with the chef at that location. They've talked, word gets out. You know, it's just, it's too small of a world. So I always want to try to do what's right for the customer. And then that way, you, you know, a lot of times if you do that, your reputation precedes you. Or you'll be driving down the road one day and you get a phone call from somebody that you've never heard of, but they talked to their buddy that you worked with, you know, 2 months ago, and now they want you to come in and talk to them.

27:47 George Penyak: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that's, that's really knowing the customer's needs. And, and there we… I think we've all had deals where you look at it and sometimes you're like, I could find a better fit for this, you know what I mean? I mean, I think we've all had those deals, and you got to remember, and I think this is the same for every industry, um, the people you're talking to, they're going to move roles. I mean, time has changed to the point where it's rare that you find people that stay within a company for 30, 40 years and retire. I mean, they move around so much nowadays. I heard, I heard something the other day, it said the average, the average person, average, uh, professional before they're, uh, 40, I think, has 5 or 6 different companies that they work for. And that, that's an alarming number. So I think recognizing that, understanding that, and, and just, you know, if it's, if it's not a fit, it's okay to walk away and get a, a more positive ROI somewhere else on your time. But also leave that door open. Um, uh, one of the tactics that we like to deploy is leaving the door open after you lose. Don't be bitter if you have a loss, and don't take it personal, but leave the door open. And that goes back to where these people go and how People move within industries, in and out, different roles, different companies, and just stay in contact. There's, there's so many easy ways nowadays to stay in contact with individuals, especially those that we didn't get deals from. And you never know, you… I mean, it happens, I think, more so to our group than maybe others, but we get calls one year, you know, down the road from individuals that we lost a deal from, and they're like, hey, I'm at a different location, I, I still love your product and system, it didn't work out for X, Y, and Z here, but Come on in, I'd like to talk to you about it. And that's how you really speed up the sales cycle is, is managing those losses and then, and getting that positive ROI on your time always. So our, um, another one of our keys to success after we've done, we've done our top 3 here, and this is, uh, this is something I'm a big believer in. I think this can transition from industry to industry as well, is, um, is creating a win-win for the customer. And the best way to do that is to be as clear as day about your process Um, almost to the point where you actually… you have to… you have to… you don't tell them how much money you make really, but you share how you're profitable, how you guys stay in business. And I think if you create enough clarity for the customer, they're going to feel a lot more comfortable with your process and what you're doing, and you're going to find the win-wins quicker. So if you… a lot of us had those deals where we're like, holy smokes, that closed so quickly. And I mean, why can't all closes be that easy? And I think that when the clarity's there, that's when you get the quick closes. And it's gonna be different for every industry, and I know there's proprietary things you can't share and margins and such, but if you can work with your sales leaders and come up with a way to be as crystal clear about what you're doing in your process, I think if you do that, 2 things will happen. You'll learn more about your customer's process, 'cause they're gonna feel more comfortable sharing more insight into their business. And then on top of that, they're going to have a better understanding of what you're doing. Therefore, you're able to position that win-win much easier. And I know clarity is going to be different for every single industry, every single company, but try to crank up and be as crystal clear as possible on your process, and then also be as crystal clear on their process. And that's how you're going to align that win-win and leverage it.

31:03 Scott Ingram: Yeah, George, I like that a lot. And I think that One of the things I often think about is experience is a function of expectation, right? So if you have 2 clients that have exactly the same experience, but one had a very, very high expectation and one had a low expectation, even though they had the same experience, one is now dissatisfied and one is very happy. And so I think you can kind of build into that process, here's how this is going to work. This is your opportunity to sort of under-promise and over-deliver and really go out for the customer. And I think your, your other points are spot on. And we could spend an hour talking about doing the right thing and the world being a very, very small place. I think one of my kind of assumptions coming into this, and I don't know that it's been proven right or wrong, it's, it's still too early. But one of the things that I've seen across the most successful salespeople is there is a significant element of just time in the saddle. And the longer they've been in ideally the same company, the same industry, the same territory, they have all of that competence and product knowledge and all of those things that come. But then they start to benefit from the network and the referrals and all of those relationships and references and everything else that you get because they've always done the right thing. Um, and, and you really start to benefit from that. And in fact, um, Brian Burns, who runs the, uh, the Brutal Truth About Selling podcast, he's kind of working on this idea called compound selling. And I think this fits into that idea, right? Is just like investing, it's, it's making these small investments over time that really starts to compound and, and turn into something, uh, really, really significant. So, uh, Mike, I think you had, uh, you had one more and then we'll dig into some of the more, uh, kind of traditional questions here.

32:56 Mike Cochrane: Yeah. By the way, I've listened to that podcast. I am familiar with it. So the compound aspect, I know exactly what you're talking about there. Yeah. The last thing I would say is, we've talked about sales and knowing when a sale is going to close, or at least having a very good idea of when the sales are going to close. And that becomes really an art. You know, I mean, that's experience and that's just kind of an art to when you know that or how you know that. But there also is, to me, something very important, and it's more of a science to sales. My mornings are never the same. I cover a very large territory. And so, you know, I may leave my house one morning at 5:15. I may leave another morning at 8 o'clock. There are other days I have a home office. I may not leave at all, you know? And so my mornings, you know, I very rarely have 2 mornings that are alike. But my evenings are critical. And what I'm talking about there and how it's a science is that I've got to know, in my planning, I've got to know exactly what I'm going to be doing tomorrow. You know, I want to wake up in the morning and not have to think about it, really. I want to get in the shower, get ready, and go start my day and know exactly what I'm going to do. And I'll tell you a perfect example of this was yesterday. I was up in Virginia seeing a university yesterday. Well, we were originally going to meet at 9:30 and then, you know, things, um, just things transpired. And so we didn't get to meet until noon. So here we are, I've got 2 and a half hours. How did I use that 2 and a half hours? If I am organized and I've got my prospect list and so forth, I can take that 2 and a half hours, go out and make a few sales calls that I didn't realize that I was going to be able to make. And so I want to have everything planned out and have all of my customers and my prospects and so forth at hand. So if you are kind of thrown a curveball like that, you can go out and make good use of your time until you can sort of get back on your, on your original plan. And so just, you know, each day before you… it's one of my biggest tips… each day before you shut down for the day, list out where you're going tomorrow, know exactly what you're going to do, and then have a few people, have a few prospects out there in case something falls apart. And you have some extra time. And so you can make good use of that time.

35:15 Scott Ingram: Mike, would you consider yourself a morning person or are you a night owl?

35:21 Mike Cochrane: Oh, you know, probably more of a night owl. Um, you know, I, I, again, my mornings, it's just, that's the thing. I cover, um, basically the entire state of North Carolina, parts of Virginia, parts of West Virginia, and a very small part of Tennessee. Um, my mornings with that large of a territory and serving the restaurant industry, I mean, there are literally thousands of prospects out there that I could see. So my mornings are never the same. There's just no routine. I can't get into a routine of waking up at, you know, 6 o'clock or whatever. So my mornings tend to be all over the place, but my evenings at the end of the day, my evenings are much more structured. So I would probably say I'm more of a night owl.

36:03 Scott Ingram: Yeah. You know what? And the reason I asked that is that would have been my assumption because I think what you're doing is you're sort of using that natural Strength, you know yourself and know, hey, I I have kind of a predict a productive spurt in the evening, and you're taking advantage of that to plan for the next day. I've had a lot of other guests who are super early risers who are getting up at four thirty or five in the morning, and obviously they can make the the morning work. So I think you know for those listening, it's it's something to just consider. Where does that? I think that's an important. Aspect to the way that you plan and prepare. And we'll, we'll talk about that a little bit more. But just understanding yourself and knowing where that fits in. And it's probably pretty natural if you're a morning person, it goes in the morning. And if you're a night owl, then do it at night. So if, if you're listening to this and you haven't already looked at the file size of this episode, I'm going to warn you, this is probably going to go pretty long. And I'm definitely going to talk with Mike and George about a lot of the typical things I ask about and some additional perspectives. But I also want to let you know that as we get into this, I'm also going to ask George some questions in particular about the sales exec to sales manager transition and how that's changed. I don't know. Well, his life really, probably. So before we get there, let's, let's now kind of take a step back and just get a little bit of the backstory. Let's, let's start with you, George. Tell us a bit about your role now and how you got to having the number one team.

37:32 Mike Cochrane: Yes.

37:32 George Penyak: So I'm the regional sales manager for essentially the Atlantic coast, uh, the, the Southern Atlantic coast, really, if you're looking at the nation as a whole. But, um, but I work with, uh, 5 sales executives, one of them being a senior, and my territory stretches from about, uh, the, the tip of Virginia all the way down to Jacksonville and all the states there on the coast. And, and, um, you know, was always a very good performer on the sales side, always was able to execute well. And, um, you know, now I've completed my first year as a region… in the regional sales manager role. And we went through a restructure where there were a couple new teams added on to our company. And so I came in with that same mindset and competitive drive and just always wanting to win because I, you know, regional sales managers, they're sized up just like sales execs are. And, you know, you have to have that same motivation and drive that you had as an SE that made you so successful as a sales executive and transition that right over. And the trickiest part of the transition is shifting that mindset from selling to coaching and development. And that was probably the biggest transition for me, one I knew I had to make quickly. Fortunately, our company Restaurant Technologies does a great job in our training program and really helped me shift my mindset quickly. Um, and, and, you know, really, I, I… there's nothing that brings me more joy now than seeing my, my team win. And, um, and I, I let all the other regional sales managers know it. You know, I'm competitive and I want to push them too. I want to push everybody. So when the company wins, we all win. So essentially, if I can take that competitive spirit that made me so successful as an SE, transition that to a regional level, well, now I'm creating a win-win for the company. My, my team's going to win And then my company's gonna win. And, and, you know, it's okay to talk a little smack. I think there's a misconception out there that, you know, I think people that lack confidence see confidence in others and they mistake that for arrogance. And so you have to have that confidence and that competitive drive to carry it over. But that was a big transition for me. I mean, I completed my first year, I was the top RSM. I'm very proud of that. Um, and the new structure, that was, was, was not an easy task, um, considering all the moving parts we had. When you, when you change shape in, in your sales structure. Um, uh, and just to give you a little background on us, I mean, or background on myself, uh, prior to working at Restaurant Technologies, I worked in advertising for some years. I, I sold real estate. Um, I even, I even interned at a car dealership one summer when I was in college, um, selling cars. They threw me on the sales floor, so I was selling cars one summer. And then I'll take it all the way back, and, and this, this kind of loops back in Uh, knowing your strengths and understanding yourself. Um, my sales career really started in my very first job I ever had. I worked at a theme park in Charlotte, North Carolina known as Carowinds. And that was my very first job. My parents said, if you're, if you're gonna have a car, you gotta go to work. And so I worked every summer there. And what I did is, uh, I didn't know it was my first job. I just, you know, filled out the application. They said, oh, well, you maybe you're fit for working the games. And, you know, the games are, if you go to any theme park, You walk through a theme park, you see a lot of games. So the games where you squirt the gun and the thing goes up in the air and you win a stuffed animal, I ran those games. And you were a carny? Essentially, I was… it was a glorified carny. It was a very classy carny. No, no, it all fits here. Stay with me, stay with me. Um, and I remember my very… and I remember when I interviewed, I said, that's fine, I'll do games. I was… I thought I was petrified of a microphone. So I said, listen, I've been to Carowinds. I've seen the guys on the mic and they're yelling and screaming at everyone to play their game. I don't want to… that's not me. I'm not doing that. So I said, okay, we'll put you at a game where you, you know, you really just stand there and you just collect money and people play the game. It's very simple. And so they stuck me out about 300 yards away from everybody else. And, and for those who have been in the Carolinas during the summer, it's brutal. I'm standing on black concrete, miles of it, and, and the water cooler is like 300 yards away from me. I'm on my own little island. I'm dying of heat. It's, it's awful out there. But so I… within about… that lasted about half a day, and I called my, my manager over and I said, hey, I don't care what you have to do to get me near the water cooler. I'll go on any game. I'll go on the mic, whatever you need me to do. Well, they put me on a mic. I said, all right, well, you're gonna have to get mic'd up and, and run one of these, uh… I think the game was guess your age or weight, which is very dangerous, by the way, especially when you're, when you're a young teenager guessing adults' ages and weights. Anyways, Um, they put me on that game and, and something about that microphone just came so natural to me. And I remember I, I, within 15 minutes, I was having a blast just meeting new people, talking, um, getting people engaged with me, striking up conversations. I was even, I would see little, uh, couples my age, you know, high school sweethearts dating, walking down. And I would call the guy out and say, hey, come win your, come win your girl a prize, man. Come on over here. I see you. I see you eyeballing me. And so, uh, I think I think that's when I realized at that point, it was literally that first day of being, being mic'd up on a job, literally my first day ever working, that I knew I had a different skill set that I needed to leverage down the road. And I never fully leveraged it till probably the last 4 years of my career. And that's really when I started finding my white space and accelerating through and, um, and then just, just in and out execution every day on it. But that's really where the roots of my sales career started. So I've done everything from B2C. Um, I'm in B2B now. That's my passion. Um, sold houses, cars, and advertising, everything in between. And, and, you know, and that's kind of the background and where I've kind of found myself here. But I love the role I'm in. I'm really excited to be a leader. I think to get to where I want to go, uh, leading people is, is a non-negotiable. Those are table stakes. So if I'm going to get to my end goal, this is, this is the career path I need to take. And I, I love selling, I love being an individual contributor, but I, I get more excitement now around my team being successful and letting them take it all and, and, and me just provide the value and let them run with it.

43:33 Scott Ingram: So that's awesome. Mike, did you know about George's history as a, as a high-class carny?

43:38 George Penyak: Did you know my history as a high-class carny?

43:40 Mike Cochrane: No, I was, I was just listening to all of that and I was thinking to myself, well, I've never been a carny. Um, uh, you know, I, I'm not sure I have a story to compare to that. Um, that was, oh, that was awesome.

43:53 George Penyak: It's not on my resume. It's not on my resume, by the way.

43:55 Mike Cochrane: I appreciate that. I understand that. No, I, you know, in, in terms of, of the backstory, I probably have a, a story that, that's similar to a lot of people in sales now. Um, my, my college degree was in finance. You know, I was, I was numbers and, and, you know, it was a very black and white type of thing. Um, Got out of college, went to work for an insurance company, did that for a couple of years and, and just did not enjoy it. You know what I mean? You're, you're sitting there with, with numbers all day long. And, and even though I was, I was, it came easily to me. It just wasn't something that, that I enjoyed. And so I had an opportunity years ago to, to start, uh, at a very, very entry level in sales. And it just, it, it's, It struck with me. It just, it was something that I enjoyed, something that I was able to go out, meet people. And it was just a much, much better fit for me. As it is now, I'm in direct sales. I call on food service facilities. As I said, virtually the entire state of North Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, Tennessee, you know, we're at everything from the QSRs that we all know, the quick serve restaurants that we, you know, the national chains that you that everyone has heard about, to regional chains, to the, what we call the non-commercial space, which would be hotels, colleges, universities, golf courses, amusement parks. I get to interact with carnies like George, you know, traditional independent restaurants, basically any place that uses cooking oil either as a raw material or, you know, uses cooking oil in their kitchens. You know, who am I talking to? Typically, it's a chef, it's an executive chef, a kitchen manager, a general manager, a store or a location operator, an owner. You know, it's a wide variety of different people. And then the conversations that you are having, and this is a lot about what we do as a company, but the conversations that you're having could be any number of different things. You know, we may be talking about kitchen safety, we may be talking about cleanliness in the kitchen or food quality or you know, efficiency or who knows what. And, and so that, that's something I really, really enjoy is you never know. For one thing, you never know who you're going to be talking to and you never know where that conversation is going to, to go. You know, it's, again, it's one thing to be in a, in a, a 5-star golf resort one day, uh, you're at a college the next day, and then the following day you're at a, at a basically a fast food quick serve restaurant. And just seeing how people value different things is something that to me is very, very enjoyable and it just keeps you fresh. You know, how did I get to the position that I was able to achieve and how did I get to number 1 last year? It's funny because I was asked that same question. Well, we get together quarterly. Our company brings everybody together once a quarter, our entire sales staff. And I was asked that question at our September quarterly meeting. I was actually asked to go on stage and address the entire sales team as to how I had had a successful year. And I didn't know that I was going to be asked that until the very last minute. Thanks, George. I appreciate that. But I was asked to go on stage and address the entire group. And what I told them that day and what is still very, very true is that The thing that is, that, that has helped me and the thing that, that I really, really appreciate now, and this is a gift, is that I can go in, it goes right back to confidence. I can go in and with our product and service, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we're going to be able to help people. And, and that's as much as anything else that has, has what's enabled me to get to number 1 is that we're going to help people. And I know that if I were in their position, if we traded places, that I would sign on, that I would come with us and, you know, use our product and service. So that has been a tremendous, tremendous gift when you can walk into a place, and it's true whether you're selling, you know, restaurant services or whether you're selling computer hardware or, you know, whatever it may be. If you can walk into somewhere and you know, there's no question about it, you know that you're going to be a benefit to that person. Yeah, you may talk about price, you may talk about, who knows, but you know that, that, that, you know, it's a good fit, you know it's going to be helpful to them, uh, it makes the entire job much, much easier and much more satisfying.

48:24 Scott Ingram: Yeah, but you guys obviously took very, very different paths to get where you are now. Mike, I'm curious, kind of knowing what you know now, is, is there anything you would have done differently coming into sales to perhaps lay an even better foundation for success?

48:38 Mike Cochrane: Well, this is a good question. I, you know, one of the things, and, and I'll, I'll answer your question this way. Um, one of the things when I first got into sales, and as I have, I guess it's just a natural, you know, of getting older and having a little bit more experience. But one of the things that was difficult to me is, is feeling like I was not going to be as knowledgeable as the people that I was calling on. You know, when I was a little younger, um, I'd, I'd, I really struggled for a while because I just didn't feel like I was as aware, as knowledgeable, as capable maybe as the people that I was going in to call on. So how would I do that differently now? I think I would realize, and you do realize this over time, that sometimes it's best, it's okay to tell people you don't know. Hey, I don't know the answer to your question, but I can get you an answer. And actually, that is the absolute correct thing to do because it builds credibility. And so, you know, what was a challenge? What would I do differently? I think I would just try to realize that I'm not, I don't know everything. I'm not Google, you know, I don't know everything. Uh, and, and allow myself that, that freedom, if you will, to, to just say, hey, look, I don't know. Um, I'm going to find out the answer and come back to you.

49:58 Scott Ingram: Yeah. George, how about you? It sounds like you got really down this path much earlier in, in your career. What, anything you would have done differently?

50:08 George Penyak: Yeah, so really the one, and I don't wanna call it a regret, but the one thing that I would've changed earlier is really transition and leverage my strengths earlier on in my sales career. It really occurred to me, just like I said, maybe 4 or 5 years ago, really, when I really got into advertising, that if I stuck to what I know and go with what I know every single time, it'll lead quicker to success. To piggyback off of Mike's last comment on, on it's okay to tell people that you don't know, I fully believe that also. And I think that goes back to having your self-confidence. And if you're, if you're okay with having that answer sometimes, especially as a new rep in any field, you're going to have greater success because the, the customer is going to feel that. And your confidence is worn on your sleeves one, one way or another. It's going to show through eventually. So it's best not to fake it. And just own it, figure it out, and change it. Um, and so, you know, if there's that, if there's that shred of doubt, it's going to act as an anchor and drag you in the wrong direction eventually. But if you're okay with saying I don't know and figuring out, you can say that with confidence, and that's going to resonate with the customer. But, um, but yeah, I mean, really, my career, my career path, just finding that strength out at such a young age, and then really, you know, to be, to be brutally honest, I really was put in a position Um, when I was in college where I really had to leverage those strengths and, and figure out my career path. Um, you know, life after the carnival, I guess you can call it. But, um, but I had a, I had a life-altering, uh, situation happen when I was in college and I was put in a position really where I had to… I was essentially completely independent and I was about halfway through my, um, my college education and I had to come up with a way to, to pay for college myself as a, as a 20-year-old 20-year-old kid essentially. And so I rattled my brain, I refocused, and I realized that, well, sales… if I could do something in sales right now, I could at least make enough money to, to keep my college going and be able to pay for the rest of my school and finish my degree. And so that's what led me to real estate. And so I got into real estate, and I think the pressure of, you know, having failure not an option really changed the way I approach business, and it really shaped me at a very young age of just 20 years old. So You know, most of my peers in college, they were going, going out doing God knows what on the weekend, and I was showing houses. I mean, I would show up into, you know, Psychology 201, and I was wearing a suit and a tie. And, um, but, you know, I don't regret any bit of it because it made me, it made me realize what it took to be successful in the real world. And it kind of took me out of that, that college, you know, because college doesn't… nothing in college really, unfortunately, nothing against you know, anyone particularly at university, but not much in college translates to the real world. And so, um, and so having that experience where I was forced to be in a place where I had to go make money now… I mean, I had to make $20,000, $30,000 a year as a 20-year-old college student back in the early 2000s. That wasn't easy to do. And so I had to leverage those strengths. I had to find my fit as a real estate agent. I really had to learn to continue to piggyback off the foundation I had from learning how to talk to people And then from there, just to create a roadmap for everybody, I, um, I graduated. I, I did pretty good in real estate. I got a Rising Star Award my, um, my first full year with the company. I was with a local real estate company in Columbia, South Carolina, and, um, pretty successful. I mean, I think I did over a million dollars every single year, so I was having a lot of success. And then once I graduated, um, the real estate market really tanked. It really hit a low, and I needed something with insurance and stability and a 401k. And so from there, I pivoted to advertising sales, and that's really where I learned to master the cold call and really learned to… that, that's where my time management skills got really honed in on, and how much I really valued time day to day was learning how to cold call, hit the streets. I mean, it was a grind. It was boiler room. I mean, it was, you know, I was selling print ads in 2010, you know what I mean? I mean, in the newspaper too. And so, um, so that kind of gave me the grit and the hustle I needed to be successful elsewhere. And, and once you can come from a field like advertising, have great success, you know, selling, selling an idea… because you're not selling a tangible product, you can't really guarantee a penny of ROI when you're working in the advertising and marketing world… you really just have to be able to, to sell an idea and, and really learn how to articulate a process that's going to lead to success for your client. And, um, so advertising taught me 2 things really: the grind of the cold call and the hustle and what it took to be successful, how valuable time was. But also, if you, you know, learning how to, how to shape an idea for a client, customer, prospect so they can be more successful when you can't really promise anything. You're just, you're, you're pitching and selling an idea and forging partnerships in that shape. That's what really finely tuned those sales skills. And then, um, from there, I, I, um, I got it. I, I was fortunate enough to, to get on board with Restaurant Technologies and sell a product that was very tangible, where, um, fortunate for us, we have data, we have figures, um, 20,000, 24,000 customers nationwide. We can provide some great data and material for our prospects to know that, hey, I can, I can ensure you a positive ROI. And once you've learned the grind of selling ideas and having success there, going to a tangible product, oh my goodness. And I'm looking at this saying, I've got to sell them that I can save them money. And I'm, are you sure I can tell them this? And, you know, and, and that's what, that's the roadmap that took me to where I am today. But the competitive drive has always been there. And there's a, um, I'm not big into quotes or sayings. I'm really not. I'm very practical, but there's, there's one thing I showed my team at our last quarterly meeting. I think it resonated with all of them. And this is something about re-hardwiring your brain on how you think. If you really are a medium performer and want to get to that elite level, this is where it starts. You have to realize… this is the quote too… if you do the hard things in life, life becomes easy. Do the easy things in life, life becomes very hard. And I think when you realize that and you embrace the grind of doing the hard things, and then you feel that dopamine rush you get after you have had a great day of work and you've worked hard and you've been really successful, and you taste that, that's when you really start shifting how you're hardwired. And that's when, that's when everything falls into place. That's when you find your confidence in your product. That's when you find your passion. And as long as you have a little competitive drive or you can find that, man, you can accelerate and your potential's uncapped. And so just to give you guys a little framework just around where, you know, where I've come from and, and kind of the route that I've been. And I hope that I can transition a positive and upside mentality into my, into my sales force. And that's, that's one thing that my senior SE pulled me aside after our last annual meeting, which was in December. We had our annual recap and did a nice awards banquet. And he said, you know what? He goes, I'll… and he's my longest tenured employee as well. And he goes, the positivity that you lead with really does change, really changed me. He said, um, He said, you know, always looking at the upside, something he's never done before. He said, I was, I was shocked by this because he trained me when I onboarded, and since my senior sales executive out of Atlanta, and he said leading through positivity, never looking at the downside, truly changed. And it changes the way you work because once you do that, your actions take shape around that. You don't have to, you don't have to think about your actions. You're always looking at the upside, always looking at the next thing. That's what changes you. And he had his best year he's ever had under me, and I'm very proud of that. And I think a lot of our team members had their best years. And it's, it's, it's really… I mean, getting knocked down so much in life in college and having to grind your way out and just knowing that, hey, if you can go through that and make it, you know, there's positive, there's positive sides to everything. There's upside to everything, and you just got to look at it that way.

58:16 Scott Ingram: Yeah, great, great stuff. And George, I'm wondering if we can… you talked about some of your early successes, but let's, let's put, um, kind of your results in perspective, both in the… in your RSM role, but also kind of how you did as in that SC role, and kind of quantify that for us a bit.

58:32 George Penyak: Yeah, so my, my very first year with Restaurant Technologies, um, I started in April, I completed my training, I got everything done mid-year. I, I hit all my… I hit 100, pretty essentially 100% of my plan, um, in my first year. Was very… it was very low. It was, it was a training quota essentially. So I hit that, I got confidence with the product, then my first full year with the calendar, my first calendar year with the company, I finished, I think it was, 215% to goal. So I'd over doubled my goal, highest percent to goal, um, company-wide. And I did it, and it wasn't one big sale. You see that a lot where one rep brings in just one huge, one huge account and boom, there's his year. Um, this was more of those mid, those small to mid-tier accounts, and I brought in a number of them and You know, those partnerships I was able to forge in year 1, really I've leveraged throughout the rest of my career so far here at Restaurant Technologies for, for not only my reps now but my second year. Uh, my second year I finished 149… or no, excuse me, 153% to plan, uh, in my full year 2. And I actually was promoted to, uh, regional sales manager at… in, um, the end of the third quarter. So really that was only 3 quarters So I really couldn't… I really shifted my mindset in Q4 that year to, to developing and training more so than selling. So I really had to let go. I think I could have done more that year. I had a full quarter I kind of left on the table, but I knew that long term, if I wanted to get where I wanted to be, I needed to shift now. Because Q4, when you're in Q4, you know, once you've majored, you're already planning. You know, great reps are already planning for the next year once Q4 hits. You've got Q4 already planned. You're, you're, you've you're done, you've knocked it out. You're gonna, you're gonna finish strong, and then now you're already thinking ahead. And so that's where my mindset transitioned. So from the gate, it was right out of the gate with, uh, the regional sales manager role is, is form my team, um, you know, create a leadership style that, that, that they can buy into and feel, and then go out and execute. And, and it has their… there, there… it hasn't been all peaches and cream. There's been challenges. I'm the youngest, I'm the youngest individual on my team, and I'm the less… I'm the… I think I'm the I'm not the lowest tenured, but I'm the youngest. And, um, and so that… I got over that quickly. I, I… one of my strategies going into my regional sales manager role, and I did this, um, at our, our 2015, uh, national business meeting, which is our awards banquet. We all get together, and that, that's… I pretty much had one quarter under my belt as the regional sales manager, still very fresh, very new. And, um, I… something I learned through training at Restaurant Technologies is I sat my guys down and said All right, I'm just going to tell you guys how I got, you know, here's, here's a little bit about me. And I told them stuff that, you know, a lot of stuff I wouldn't tell my closest friends. You know, I tried to be completely vulnerable with them so they can, they can really see how I've gotten to where I've gotten. And, and I asked them, I said, just go, I want to go around the table. And I said, if you're uncomfortable with this, don't, don't do it. I totally understand. But I want you to share a story and, and be a little vulnerable here and just share something about yourself on how you got here that you might not want to share, that you might not typically share with your peers or coworkers. And what that did is we all went around the table and did that. And it was amazing how much alike we all really were. And we didn't know that unless I had to drag… you know, we kind of did this thing when we got together, not drag it out, but when you really position it and say, hey, just put it out there. When I led with that, I think it brought down the wall for my team. And I think they felt comfortable sharing things. And when they started sharing things, I mean, the conversation, I mean, it was amazing. At the end of it, we were sitting there and we're just like, I'm sure Michael will add to this because he was there. And we were just like, oh my gosh. I mean, I, you know, it's, it's, it's incredible how close you can get through just being vulnerable. You know, no one's, no one's perfect. No one's, no one's a, you know, a hero here. Let's all just talk about ourselves and, and, and in a light that we're not comfortable doing. And I think once you create… another thing that that's helped, and this is for any sales leaders out there listening, is, is once I created that safe environment, once we got to know each other at that level, I think I've created a safer environment where I feel like I always get the truth out of my reps. And what that allows me to do is when I've created this safe zone and I always get the truth, I can coach so much better. Because I think everyone listening here has been at a point in their career where You know, you don't, you, you don't want to tell your, your sales manager XYZ for X because this will make you look bad. But I think if you create that safety net, and this is on, this is on the sales manager, that you don't, you can't expect this out of your team. You have to drive this, create that safety net. You're going to get the truth out of your team. And if you can get the truth out of your team every single time, crystal clear, you can coach to that and make them better reps and better people in the long run. And so that's kind of my… I don't want to call it a leadership style, but I think it's just the framework that our team kind of lives by. And with the overlying theme of always be positive, never, never look at the negative or downside, you know. And any, any, anytime negative or downside gets brought to me, I just ask why. Why are we considering this? Yeah. And so a little framework there.

1:03:44 Scott Ingram: So Mike, 2, 2 questions for you kind of based on that. The first being kind of putting your own results in, in your first year in perspective for us, and then talk a little bit about being part of George's team and George's impact on you and getting to that point? Yeah.

1:04:02 Mike Cochrane: All right. From a results standpoint, Scott, I started last November, November of 2015. Actually, a little funny story. My first day of employment was George's first day as a regional sales manager. So we were both, I was stepping in from outside the company. He was being promoted into a brand new role. Um, but, uh, so I went through training, you know, we have a basically a 3-month sales training program. So I, I got out in the field on my own, truthfully, you know, out doing my, my thing. Let's say probably January, mid-January of 2016. Um, had a full year's quota, you know, in front of me. And I finished the year right at about 140% of plan, made President's Club. Was the first rookie to make President's Club, and then ultimately won the Rookie of the Year Award for 2016. So it was, it was a really, really good year. It's, it's a, one of those, you know, I think sometimes you go through your career, and then when you hit a job, when you hit a position, when you hit a company that you really, really feel passionate about, you know, when you really hit something that you just, you kind of look at it and you say, all right, this is what I'm, this is what I'm made to do. I very strongly got that feeling this year. So, you know, looking at this coming year, you know, my number goes up a few, but I, you know, my goal this year coming up, 2017, is to be at that number by, you know, midsummer at the latest. And, and yeah, that's where I'm going. I've got some things going on that I think I'm gonna get there, but that's really what I'm looking at from a results standpoint. Part of being George's team, and I'll, as an aside, I remember very well that meeting at our national business meeting last year. And when George was asking us to reveal something about ourselves, and I'll tell you what, after we went around the room and talked about that, I think we were all sort of felt like we were, you know, from the land of misfit children a little bit. But we all did have some very common stories in it. And I think it It did, it was a really good thing that he did there. It was a very smart thing to do because it did sort of bind us all together. You know, it was sort of, we let our defenses down. We told something about ourselves that we normally would not tell. And I think it brought us all together very quickly in George's tenure as a RSM. And I would dare say, I'm not in the other regions' meetings, but I would dare say that our group Uh, the 5 of us and then George, I would say we were probably closer than any of the other group in the, in the company. Yeah, we were the number 1 team. Um, but I think just in terms of calling each other, um, you know, just, just helping each other, I would almost, I would feel very confident in saying that our team is probably closer, uh, than any other team in the company. And, and I'll also say too, George had a, he had a tough, a tough situation. It was, it was, you know, if you look at the makeup of our team, We've got 5 of us, one in Virginia, one in North Carolina, one in South Carolina, one in Georgia, and then one in South Georgia, Northern Florida. The 2 of the people within our team, 2 of the reps are very senior. One is 10 years. I think one's about 5 or 6 years. Both have been very successful their entire tenure at Restaurant Technologies. The other 3, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, all of us were in our first year this year. So George was put into a tough situation. He had 2 guys that were even, had been, you know, had longer tenure than he did, and he was managing those guys. Then he had to turn and sort of pivot and deal with 3 rookies basically. So he was in a tough spot there. And I think one of the things that Brian had mentioned to George is that positivity. And, you know, It absolutely is infectious. George, you know, I know with me as I went through 2016, I know, I mean, I know good and well there were a handful of things, or if not more, that I did that George probably to himself thought, oh man, I wish he would not have done that, or I wish he wouldn't have gone that direction. But he never approached me like that. You know, the conversations that he and I had were always very positive in nature. You know, he would say something along the lines of, hey, you know, that was, that was a nice job. Um, good, good work on that. But, you know, I mean, next time you get in that situation, you may want to think about doing it this way. So he would, he would present it to me in a, in a teaching, you know, he would take a teaching moment or turn it into a teaching moment, but he would do it in a way that when I walked away from it, I felt, you know, I felt good. I felt positive. I didn't feel like I'd had my hand slapped. Um, so that was one thing that, that I think George did very, very well. He's very authentic, very genuine in terms of how he feels about his people, how he feels, you know, our welfare. He wants to know how we're doing, how our family's doing. And I'll take just a minute and give you a short story to illustrate that. My son graduated high school this past year and he was accepted and started attending Georgia Tech. Well, if anybody knows Georgia Tech, you know, it is an extremely difficult engineering school. It's one of the top engineering schools in the country. So my son went to school down there, and we can… my wife and I can go online and look at his grades, and he was doing very, very well as far as his grades go. But I had a conversation with him on the phone probably 4 or 5 weeks into school, and listening to his voice, I could just sense a stress. You know, he was just stressing a little bit. His grades seemed to be fine, but you know, I just, as a father, I could hear what he was saying, and I just knew… I just had that father sense that I needed to go down and spend a little time with him. Called George, told him what was going on. He didn't hesitate. You know, he said, go, go do it. Keep your phone with you. Um, you know, be available, but go, go down there and take care of it. So I drove down. Um, it was probably a father's overreaction. As soon as he got in the car, he said, hey, Dad, guess what? I made a 95 on my calculus test. And I was like, all right, great.

1:10:18 Scott Ingram: All right.

1:10:18 Mike Cochrane: Maybe I overreacted here. But we went, we had lunch, you know, we spent 45 minutes to an hour together, had a very heartfelt conversation. We came back, I hugged him and sent him back to his dorm. But as I was driving home that evening, you know, I thought about how George handled that and, and how he realized that it's not a short-term situation. He looked at that whole situation very long-term and knew that I needed to go handle that, at least in my own mind, satisfy my own mind that everything was okay. And so, uh, you know, it, it, it really made me value what he, what he does and how he interacts with his team. Uh, and so that's, you know, those are the kind of things that you can't, you can't put a, you know, it's just, it worked out very well. And so that's one of the reasons I really enjoy working for George. And I think if you ask the other guys on the team, they've probably had similar experiences with him.

1:11:10 Scott Ingram: Yeah. What a great, great, great story. And so let's, let's pivot a little bit and dig deeper into the weeds. I always like to talk about kind of habits and routines and that kind of thing. And Mike, ordinarily I would ask, Um, you know, what time do you get up in the morning and how does the day start? But maybe for you, maybe we want to start with the night before. How, how are you setting up your day? What are the details of that? And obviously you've… you don't have a lot of consistency, so what, what are the consistent things that you are doing knowing that, uh, life is going to get thrown at you fast and furious and, and be pretty unpredictable?

1:11:45 Mike Cochrane: Yeah, you're right. My morning routines are non-existent. You know, they, they can be all over the place. Evening routines are much more consistent, much more concrete. One of the things that I, and I learned that, I'll say, as I went through 2016, again, I cover a very large territory. Now there may be people out there listening to this podcast that cover larger territories than I do. However, if you look at the, you know, it's 75,000, 80,000 square miles, but we serve the restaurant industry. So how many restaurants are in that 80,000 square miles? I mean, literally there's thousands of prospects out there. And it can be very easy to drive all over the place and just extend yourself out into way, way too many areas and you're just not very efficient. So what I realized as I went through the year, uh, I try to plan 2 weeks out. The, the, the week ahead, you know, the following week, the next week, let's say, I will look at where I'm going to be. You know, am I going to be in each day? Am I going to be in Raleigh or am I going to be in Asheville or am I going to be in, in, you know, Roanoke, Virginia or whatever? I'll just have the city. And then if I have a meeting, you know, I'll fill that in as well. But the upcoming week, this week, you know, that we're getting ready to have, then I'm gonna take what I did the week before. So I know what city I'm gonna be in, but I will look at each specific day and I will make certain that not only my appointments are scheduled, you know, I know who I'm going to see, but as I had touched on earlier, I want to know… I've got a list of all my prospects in every basically every city within my territory so that as I'm going to Winston-Salem or Greensboro for the day and I've got an appointment in the morning or an appointment in the afternoon or both or what have you, if something falls, if something changes, I never ever want to wind up at 1:30 in the afternoon and have to question, right now what do I do? Right, so, so every day, every evening, you know, I make certain that for the upcoming day I know not only who I'm going to see But then also in a worst case scenario, I can reach into my book, pull out, turn to the Asheville page or the Charlotte page or whatever. And here I've got a long list of people that I could see. So it's just a matter of knowing exactly where you're gonna go. And then if something goes wrong, what you do, and you don't have to sit there and think about it. You just pull the book out and go.

1:14:11 Scott Ingram: And Mike, it sounds like that is, is that all driving? How, how much are you in the air versus in the car?

1:14:18 Mike Cochrane: Well, that's a great question. Typically it's all driving. You know, yes, it's a big territory from, from the far western point of my territory up in West Virginia down to the North Carolina coast is probably 8 hours. But it typically is all driving and I'm getting better at trying to be more efficient. You know, if I'm going out on the eastern part of the state, let's say going out toward the Wilmington area down near the coast, then obviously I want to try and be as efficient as I can. But no, it is 99% driving.

1:14:55 Scott Ingram: And how… what do you do with all of that windshield time?

1:15:00 Mike Cochrane: Well, that's a great… that's another good question. One of the things that I'm getting more and more involved in is just what we're doing here today, the podcast. You mentioned the Brutal Sales, uh, the, you know, podcast. I've started listening to that. Um, and so I'm, I'm just trying to be as productive as I can. You know, talk radio was something for a while you listened to, but then, you know, gosh, that, that gets old after a while. So I'm really at this point exploring. I can't say that I've got, you know, a couple fallback podcasts that I always listen to, but I'm, I'm just sort of exploring some of the different podcasts out there. And I'm really enjoying just, um, I was listening to The Brutal Truth the other day. I think he was talking about, um, social media and Instagram and some of the different ways to reach out to people. Uh, in social media. And that's something I think a lot of salespeople overlook now. And so I'm, I'm going, you know, George and I've talked a little bit about it. I'm doing a lot more with that. But, um, yeah, yeah, podcasts are something that I'm spending a lot of time now listening to and trying to, to, to benefit from and learn from.

1:16:03 Scott Ingram: Cool. So actually just finished building a resource for you and, and everybody else that's listening. I spent way too long, took me a whole day to build a list of all of the sales-focused podcasts I could find. I came up with nearly 70.

1:16:18 Mike Cochrane: Oh, that's great.

1:16:19 Scott Ingram: So if you go to top1.fm/sales-podcasts, I should come up with an even shorter one, but that'll get you directly to the, to the page. That is everything under the sun that I could possibly find. And if I missed any, anybody listening, just leave me a note in the comments and we'll be sure to, we'll be sure to add it. Before we finish with you, Mike, any apps that you are using a lot and getting a lot of value from, or any other tools that you use kind of throughout the day that are go-tos?

1:16:51 Mike Cochrane: You know, I don't use as many as I would like. I've experimented with SignNow, you know, an app that lets you go out and get signatures using your phone. I don't have that, you know, down pat yet, but I can certainly see how that would help. I'm using CamCard every day and allows me to just snap a picture of a business card. It goes right into my contacts. Those are really the 2 that I'm, that I'm using now. And, and, but I don't, you know, it, a lot of it is, is old school, quite frankly. I'm not using as many apps as maybe I could or should.

1:17:27 Scott Ingram: Yeah. You know, you mentioned CamCard. Um, another one, if you're not using some type of automated expense. We use Expensify, so it's got this type of functionality. But for expense receipt capture, I used to use an app called CamScanner, and I would just create basically a folder and take a picture of all of my receipts. And then when I was done and ready to submit that expense report, it just turns it into a PDF, and I sent the file and I was done. So it was, it was kind of a nice way. I literally take a picture of the receipt, throw it away, never have to worry about it again. So Uh, that might be another one that's helpful for, for you and others. George, how about you? It does… I assume you're… well, let's start with morning or night owl. Oh wow.

1:18:09 George Penyak: Um, I'm definitely more productive in the morning. Um, but, uh, I, I do tend… it really depends on my travel schedule. So I'm, you know, covering the, the region I cover. I'm flying a lot. Um, I'm driving a lot. Um, I'm all over the place. Um, and then I'll go to a lot of national events. So it really, it really depends. I have to really be able to pivot and shift. Um, but I, I do my planning if, if it's around working with my, my team, you know, a lot of it's similar to what Mike mentioned. It's a lot of planning the day before, and really I'm planning the week out before. And, um, I always let my team know. I send a weekly recap note on every Friday to everybody. And I let them know not only, hey, here's what everyone's working on, here's the wins that we're having, here's our successes. Um, I let them know what my travel plans are for the next week. So I plan usually week by week and I stick to that. I try my best to stick to that schedule. Now there'll be certain regional or national customers that, that if I can add, add value to a meeting, I'll definitely prioritize that and be there. And that's all about just the value of time and who can I get in front of and, and how often and frequent. But, um, but yeah, typically on a daily level, it's the evening before, um, before I mentally shut it all down. I'm… I already know exactly what the execution plan is for tomorrow, what needs to be done, what those priority… those priorities are. And then, um, and then really it's, it's doing the, the, uh, the micro things after that, just managing your emails, um, you know, when to shut it down, when to ramp it back up. Um, but I try to be as transparent as possible with my team on exactly what I'm doing, exactly where I am, because I want to be very visible to them. I don't want them to think that I'm sitting behind a desk and managing numbers. And I fear that there's some sales managers out there that do that. They get caught in the numbers and it's a, it's a, it's a quarterly game when really it's just a daily developmental game and the numbers take care of themselves. So, so I, I do plan a lot of short-term weekly and daily items the night before or the Sunday night before if I'm planning a week, um, uh, what needs to be done, where I'm already going, and, and planning things out, reaching out some of our directors, um, you know, creating alignment for customers. So, uh, but yeah, I would say the night before, but I'm more productive during the morning, and I just know myself like that. So I'll, I'll plan a little bit the night before, and then I'll get the heart of the things I need to get done in that, that meat of the day. So you're, you're, you're 8:30 to 11 is, is, is prime time there. So, um, so that's kind of for me how I, how I plan things out. But, you know, it changes so much having 5 great reps. And, and, and Mike, Mike will attest to this. He'll get a big meeting, he'll call me up, I'll say I'll be there, you know, I'll drop, I'll drop it all and shift. And it's just, it's just going where I can provide the most value and developmental tools for my team.

1:21:02 Scott Ingram: And any other tools you're, you're using to manage through that, that process? I mean, you are kind of in the, in the ultimate… it sounds like you're being proactive where you can be in, in the planning, but after that, it's, it's, it's a lot of reaction, and sometimes you are having to drop a lot of stuff. How do you, how do you manage through all that, or are there any, uh, tools that help in that process?

1:21:24 George Penyak: Uh, you know, email and calendar, they're powerful. Um, you know, it, it does sound a little bit like controlled chaos, but, um, You know, I don't use, I don't use many apps. We have Concur for our expenses. That makes stuff like that easy, the, the kind of office work. Um, but I, I try to automate as much as possible. And, you know, I'll try to leverage anybody else in the organization to help me automate certain processes. And, um, you know, for instance, if I want to automate something to save a little time, if we're going to get, you know, a little practical here, um, and there's an Excel spreadsheet and I want to I want to get something where I can automate a graph and it populates based on a number and input that I pull out of CRM, put in a spreadsheet. I can send that up to corporate and they get it done for me. And so I'm able to, able to just know my resources, leverage those. Um, but as far as apps, I'm kind of like Mike. I mean, surprisingly, I don't use many apps day to day to manage, manage my, my time or manage my days. Um, I just tend to old school plan it the night before and the week before. And just really know what you have to do. And, and like, you know, it goes back to kind of the things we led with, like know how valuable that time is and don't be scared to pivot on it. And that's, I think, why it's hard for me to come up with an answer here is because I'm gonna go where the positive ROI is on my time every time, 100%, 365. I just, I'm not, I, you know, it's, it's, it's just, it's challenging for me to stick to an app or, or have something to help me track my, my, uh, my day or plan my day because I'll do the best I can. But, um, but, and positive ROI for me is different than positive ROI for Mike or positive ROI for my South Carolina rep. And so, um, for me it's, it's, it's, you know, I guess a good thing to say is making sure I can adapt and I need to plan for that. I need to plan for plan for things to change and have that ability to change. Because the last thing I want to happen is, you know, because we're all on customers' time, you know, we can't… we can dictate meeting times and try as best as we can, but really it's nowadays and with today's technology, everyone's got a cell phone in their pocket. Getting 2 people to sit down at a table together when one's running a business and one's operating a, uh, a market, you know, that's challenging to do. And so once you can make that happen Um, I have to be adaptable and be able to, be able to drop certain things and, and rely on my, my back team to, to fill that, to pick that up for me. But, um, but yeah, I wish I could give you a more detailed answer on, hey, it's very structured. It's, you know, because it is. There's structure to it. There's planning. There's, um, you know, Excel spreadsheets where I'm going, who's around there. Like Mike said, to piggyback off of that, um, just knowing your market like the back of your hand, where you're where your key customers are and then where your key prospects are. And, you know, for, for struggling reps out there and struggling regional sales managers, um, uh, one thing I've always done as, um, as either a rep or in the management role is, is you can always go back to your current customers. You know, if you feel like you're ever in a rut or, or something's like… if you're ever even seeing the wheels start to slow a little bit, go back to a current customer. Talk to them, leverage their network, check in, genuinely see how they're doing. And that goes back to maintaining that relationship and also with your wins and your losses, as we mentioned before. And so I try to do that on a regional level and anything I can do to clear the path for Mike to execute on his job, I do. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm here to, to make sure that like me, I'm big on prioritizing that wildly important goal and getting it done every single day. Now I'm on, I'm on the developmental side and coaching side. I want to make sure that I'm coaching them up, but also clearing the way for them so they have less on their plate to go execute on that wildly important goal every single day. And then the results come, come after that.

1:25:17 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's awesome. So one quick thing, I really want to get to, uh, the conversation about kind of the, the transition and, and how you're feeling about that role, because I think it's a, it's a fork in the path that a lot of people come to, and I want to get your, uh, perspective Uh, before we do that, I'm totally going to forget. I've got a little bonus, uh, for our listeners. Uh, my friend Craig Rosenberg, who many people know as the Funnelholic, uh, is getting ready to host the 2nd annual TOPO Summit in San Francisco on April 12th and 13th. Uh, so what makes that event pretty unique is nearly all of the presenters are actual practitioners. So kind of similar philosophy to this podcast. Uh, I'm going to be there and would love to see some other folks there. You can learn all about it at top1.fm/topo. T-O-P-O. Um, and we also have a ticket to the event that we're going to give away, uh, in our Sales Success Community on February 24th. So if you're not already in the community, you can head over to top1.fm, get on the mailing list, which automatically prompts an invite, uh, to find… to the community, and then you can find the Topo Challenge, uh, from there. So didn't want to forget to, to mention that. Um, so George, let's, let's talk about Uh, your move from that individual contributor role where you were obviously doing very, very well and, uh, kind of what, what drove that. And I'll preface this, I'll kind of share my, my bias, um, being in the field, and, and that is that I've always felt like that sales management role involved a lot more work. I mean, you just talked about it's very reactive, you got a whole lot of stuff, um, coming at you, and I felt like it's not much more reward, or, or in a lot of cases, if, if you're at the top of the, uh, the leaderboard, it's, it's probably less reward, at least from a W-2 perspective. So what's your thought? Like, what was, what was your thought process in making that transition? And, and how do you feel now that you're, you're there?

1:27:15 George Penyak: Um, my thought in the transition, um, You know, I, I had kind of the same things that you're, you're mentioning. Those thoughts definitely occurred to me while I made the transition. Um, uh, I, I remember when, um, my director, or he was actually my regional sales manager at the time, asked, essentially asked me to replace his role and fill in his shoes. And, um, at first I was, I was flattered. I was, um, um, you know, I, I didn't know that it would happen this quickly. Um, but I, I, I deep down, just knowing myself, I knew that if I, if I, if I want to get to the CEO executive level or even owning my own company one day, leading people is something that, that's a bridge I'm gonna have to cross. And so, um, very excited that I, I got the opportunity and, and really took it without hesitation. And, but there is, there's definitely a transition there to understanding that, hey, you're you were the rock star. I mean, you went from crushing it every day, getting recognition on a regular basis, and, and really what, what drove all those successes kind of goes away. And now you have to shift and give that back and provide that value to your team. And so there's a huge transition there, um, and I think that's why I kind of drive the regional competitive spirit. So I try to drive my other RISMs and, and talk a little smack and let them know where my numbers are compared to their teams and And I'm always trying to hype my team up on, hey, we're, we're the leaders right now. We have a target on our back. We have to continue to execute. Um, I, you know, I'm not going to let us slip behind. And, um, and I think that's helped a lot is kind of bringing that competitive spirit that may, that could, I could see get lost in the shuffle, just going into the development role and maybe not closing deals left and right, like getting the ink yourself. Um, I can see where that trends. And I had that, I felt that for a little bit. But instantly when I started seeing some of the success coming from, from my team, man, that really got me excited because, and, and, and, and, you know, things are still in a transition phase. This is year 1 for us in this new, um, this new role and this new, so, you know, as we win, as I, I'm going to keep this up and we're going to keep winning year after year, you know, I want to be able to keep this going and keep that competitive spirit. So I kind of maintain a little bit of that, that fun stuff that I love from being an individual individual contributor and bring that straight into the, the regional role. So it's been a fun transition. I've learned a, I've learned a ton. I've drank from a fire hose for the last, you know, 14 to 16 months. Um, but, uh, but I, I hope that I've been able to provide value for my team and my company and just being able to adapt and having an open mind. And really, I, I got to give a shout out to our training program at the company I'm at. I mean, they have a phenomenal leadership training program that's really helped me polish those sales tools. Um, and I do want to mention one thing too, and this is actually a story Michael will remember also. Um, as a leader, I, I knew, um, you know, going into this role that if I'm going to continue to lead people, that's probably how my career path is going to go. I don't know if I'll, if I'll ever be in an individual contributor role again because I love what I do. But that being said, I never want to let that skill set of cold calling, prospecting. I never want to let that, that, that pencil dull. And so I'm a big believer in always being a practitioner of what I do and my team's craft. And so Mike and I were riding together, we had a meeting, and then we had a couple… we had on a couple hours to kill and said, hey, let's, let's stop by so-and-so. And we walked in the door, I remember I stopped Mike and I said, hey, let me lead this one. Let me just see what's going on. Let me ask all the questions. Just let me drive it. You know, and we always talk… Mike knows how he doesn't need that development anymore. He's, he's He's our rock star. So, um, but I, I do that because I want to keep that pencil sharp at all times. Because if I, if I let my, my, that pencil dull in having those cold call conversations and doing the day-to-day things that my guys are doing, how can I even coach or guide them? I'm going to slip into that role of a, of a regional sales manager that's managing the numbers and not the strengths of our, of our team. And so being a practitioner and never getting away from that has really helped me stay close to the action and kind of give me that, that, that rush I love to get from being an individual contributor, but letting them take the success, letting them get the wins, and then helping them along the way.

1:31:37 Scott Ingram: Yeah, good, good stuff. And I, I know we're, we're running a little bit tight on time. I'd love to dig a little bit deeper, but maybe there'll, there'll be a follow-up conversation at some point. So let's, let's wrap up where we always do. I mean, we've talked for Uh, nearly an hour and a half, tons of great ideas and content. I mean, we, we started with kind of the top 3 from each of you plus some additional bullet points, so there's a ton to take away here. But I'd like to end with something truly actionable. So if you were to boil this down, and maybe you each have one, I don't know how you, you did the prep, so, you know, let you tackle it how you want, but what, what's the challenge, right? What's, what's the thing that the person who invested the time, listened to this, uh, is, is feeling hopefully at least inspired and, and motivated and wants to work on their confidence? What thing can they do, uh, to, to make this translate this to results for themselves?

1:32:31 George Penyak: Yeah, so, um, something very practical, and it, it, it's not going to sound practical, but you have to realize, um, your position and where you are today. And this is specifically for the medium performers that have… that may have been there for a little while, you know, really find out what, what you need to do to get to that next level and just do it. I mean, everyone thinks about it and it feels really good to think about being a top performer and resolute. It was around New Year's, this is a great topic to lead in with, but, but, but actually, actually do it. Actually just execute. And, um, if there's, if there's one thing I could leave you with is always, always, always look at the upside to everything. And when you essentially feel yourself creeping on the downside or the negative, or what if I lose this deal, you've already lost. You need to be so optimistic and shift your… you need to re-hardwire how you think. And that's a challenge. I mean, if you're… there's really one thing you can do to become a top performer from a medium performer, is really think like a top performer. And I highly recommend, if you don't have a mentor, find a mentor right now. Go out tomorrow, call your regional sales manager, leverage them, network, find yourself a very, very good mentor and lean on them. And don't, you know, I think a lot of salespeople, they may hesitate to find a mentor because they think it's a sign of weakness, when in reality you're recognizing your own strengths and helping out where you can help out to overall strengthen your performance. So find a mentor, have those tough conversations, and, um, and get to that point where you know you can be a top performer. And once you really truly believe it, once you truly believe that you can be a top performer, your actions will take shape around that because the mind and body are connected like that. And you truly have to believe it. It's not pie in the sky. Um, you just have to go out and execute on it. So if there's one tip I could leave everybody with is is know your strengths, know your weaknesses, find a mentor, and then just upside, upside, upside, go get it.

1:34:41 Scott Ingram: Very actionable. Mike, how about you?

1:34:43 Mike Cochrane: You know, mine is going to be very similar to what George said, actually. I think, I mean, I cannot stress enough to me the value of self-awareness. You know, it, it, you've, you've just got to know what you're good at. You know, you've got to know what you're good at. And so, So it's not something, you know, my, it's not something that I'm going to, you know, that you're going to do every day for 7 days or whatever. But I would, I would recommend to anybody who's out there in a sales role to just spend, if you need to spend some quiet time, you know, to just be very, very objective, very honest with yourself. It's not always an easy thing to do, but you've got to look in the mirror and truly realize, one, what you enjoy, but two, you know, what you're good at and then what you're not good at and do everything you can to restructure the way you're going about your job so that you can engage customers through that area of strength. That can be a very revealing exercise. You know, that can be something that is tough to deal with. You know, you may think you're really good at one thing, but when you really truly look in the mirror, you know, you have to admit, well, yeah, maybe I'm not so good at that. It might be a situation where you, you go to a colleague, uh, and ask them, just say, hey, look, you know, you and I have worked together quite a bit. You know, in your mind, tell me the truth. What do you see me being effective at? How am I most effective? And sometimes if, if they're going to be truthful with you, their answers can be extremely helpful. So you just need to truly understand where you are the most effective and make sure that that's the area that you're using when you try to engage customers or prospects.

1:36:24 George Penyak: And Scott, can I close with one more thing? Just to… he triggered something that I want to share real quick. And that is, if you reflect and you either you reach out to a mentor or a colleague and you find that you're lacking confidence in your product, there's something there that, you know, and that can happen. That can be anything from operationally, you feel like we need to improve our operations, we need to improve this. If you truly reflect and you're bulletproof in yourself, but that there's a shred of doubt in the product or service you're representing, it's gonna eventually shine through. So something actionable and practical is find something else, and now. Don't, don't waste time. I mean, like I said, time is all we have. Don't waste a week of mailing it in to any sort of company or product that you're representing, and ultimately your happiness will suffer, your pockets will suffer, because your results are gonna suffer. You can go out and find a new product to represent because I feel like really good salespeople are some of the most adaptable, creative, smart people in their respective companies. Shift and don't be scared to do it. Don't be scared to leap to another industry. And, you know, there's… once you marry up that confidence you have in yourself and you know you can execute with a phenomenal product and backing, your potential's uncapped. And so, you know, don't be scared to find… to learn a new industry. And find a new sales role because you'll be surprised how quick you can adapt with the right mindset. And man, your, your pockets will be happier and overall yourself, your family and yourself will be ultimately happier and you'll find that white space and it's something you can kind of continue to do year in and year out. And I think those top performers that are up there every single year, that's what they found.

1:38:01 Scott Ingram: George Penyak and Mike Cochrane, this has been incredible. Thank you guys both so much.

1:38:06 George Penyak: Thank you, Scott. We really appreciate it.

1:38:07 Mike Cochrane: Thank you so much.

1:38:12 George Penyak: Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast. To be sure you never miss an episode and for an invitation to our Sales Success Community powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter at top1.fm.