85: Selling $11M in 2 Years and Earning 7 Figures - Brandon Fluharty of LivePerson

0:08 Scott Ingram: You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve. To learn more, visit us at top1.fm. Here's your host, Scott Ingram.

0:24 Scott Ingram: This episode is sponsored by the 2020 Sales Success Summit that will happen here in Austin on October 12th and 13th. Complete details, click over to top1summit.com. Today on the Sales Success Stories podcast, my guest is Brandon Fluharty. Brandon is the number one top seller at LivePerson and is based in Sarasota, Florida. Welcome to the show, Brandon.

0:45 Brandon Fluharty: Hey Scott, thanks for having me.

0:47 Scott Ingram: So I've really been looking forward to this conversation based on a couple of really great articles you've written on LinkedIn recently, and we'll have those linked up in the show notes at top1.fm. And in the first one, you wrote about 7 lessons from reaching the 7-figure earners club in SaaS sales. And in the second, you wrote about building an $11 million a year business in 24 months. But why don't we… we'll definitely come back to some of that stuff. But I want to start like we always do with the top 3 things that you believe have contributed the most to your success.

1:20 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, sure. So I think the number one thing is just being super strategic. So we were talking a little bit about this, and I think one thing that a lot of salespeople are missing is harnessing that entrepreneurial spirit and bringing that to your, your daily job in sales. So I don't know who coined this phrase or this, this title, but intrapreneur, I think, is a great way to look at sales. So we need to be our own little startup. And the company that we work for, I think we need to treat them like a venture capitalist firm who is really focused on our success. So let them take on all of the risks of, of running the business and us focus on generating, you know, the sales and, and, you know, running our business like it's our own. So I think that's kind of key. We have, we have to sort of think through that. And I think then once you're at the table, with your prospect that really helps put on a different hat than just being thinking of yourself as a lowly salesperson. You need to think of yourself as almost an equal or a C-level executive who is really trying to vie for transforming their business. So I think that's kind of number one, just like think more strategically, think about yourself as a startup under your company. And then the second thing is just being hyper-organized. And I think for me, what I found is good performance is, is an output and bringing together, you know, about 5 different factors together, which is a constant challenge, especially for people who travel a lot. But I think if you can bring together time, energy, motivation, prioritization, and focus, if you can bring those 5 elements together consistently as best you can, then good results are going to happen. I think it really starts with you have to treat yourself right, right, to get all those things together and managing your energy and making sure that you have time for yourself and you have the motivation, the energy levels. We should also think about ourselves not just like intrapreneurs in a startup, but also like a world-class athlete. You know, I come from a background of, you know, being a soccer player. And I think many of the attributes that I built on the soccer field, you know, carry over to sales. So, you know, how you sleep, how you eat, how you work, how you recover, all those things are important in the day-to-day of sales. So I think the third area is just treating the internal sale is just as important as the external sale. What I mean there is, you can't be a jerk. Internally, we're gonna rely heavily on our teammates. And you know my mantra is nothing great is achieved alone. And I think especially if you are in strategic sales or enterprise sales with working on really large deals and large accounts, it's critical to rally the troops and rally your organization behind you. And the way to do that is just as you have to inspire your clients and your prospects. You need to inspire those around you to want to work hard and deliver their best work. And there's just great talent in our organizations, we need to put that on showcase for our clients. So I think rallying the troops and getting others to work well for you on those pursuits is critical.

5:04 Scott Ingram: That's great. I mean, I'm excited to dig into all of 3 of those just a little bit deeper. And it's interesting, You're talking about the internal sale in particular. I mean, that was a really big theme of last year's Sales Success Summit when we had some, you know, real big elephant hunters like Evan Kelsay and Jamal Reimer talking about some of the deals that they've done. And again, it's the same idea that at least half of the effort in doing these mammoth deals is, is the internal sale and the way that you're leveraging executives. I had a lot of folks walk away from that summit realizing, hey, I've got a lot more assets at my disposal that, to your point about the entrepreneurial, think of the company as a VC, you've got all of these assets that are part of the deal that you have an opportunity to leverage that a lot of people don't. And we'll certainly talk more about that. But why don't we contextualize this a little bit and just talk about your role, talk about LivePerson and, and what it is that you're actually selling.

6:09 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, so LivePerson, we sit in a really unique position, and I've joined the company about 24 months ago. And the reason I was drawn to the company was it feels like this late-stage startup, but it's a 20-plus-year-old company that was founded in 1995. And in 1997, our co-founder and CEO Rob Locascio, who happens to be the longest running CEO on the NASDAQ behind Jeff Bezos at Amazon. He invented web chat, not the AOL chat, but the web chat for brands. So if you go onto a website and you try to communicate in that chat window, we invented that back in the late '90s. And for many years we led the way. And it was about 6 years ago that Rob and the company made a strategic and massive pivot away from session-based chat, which acts a lot like a phone call. If something ends, you have to start all over again to asynchronous communication or messaging. And the best way to think about that is, you know, in our personal lives, we've ditched the smartphone for calling our friends and family, and we just message one another, whether that's just basic SMS over text or Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, you name it. And there really wasn't an opportunity for brands to build that intimate relationship with their customer base. So we replatformed, invested heavily millions into moving, you know, our platform from a chat-based, a session-based communication platform to an asynchronous messaging platform. So any which way someone could communicate with a brand, like a Delta Airlines, T-Mobile, Disney, you would have that capability. And those are some of our, our clients. So we work with really large brands that are looking to transform the way they communicate with their customers at scale. And the best way to do that is leveraging AI and automation, but in tandem with the best assets that most of these brands are sitting on, which are human agents, human people. So we like to call it the tango. We think that the best way to scale AI effectively and automation is in tango with humans. And typically, we start in the contact center. And those customer contact center agents, they are typically your best conversationalists or conversational designers, as we call them, with your, you know, the brand's customers. And so we leverage them as the assets and give them the tools, very code-light tools that make it very easy to design bots and automation and give them the keys to do this, rather than, you know, forcing IT to design these automations and then roll it out in a very slow manner. So that's sort of this transition and transformation that we're enabling for the world's largest brands. And we're a leader in this space. It's under the auspices of conversational commerce. Just whatever I want, I should be able to message a brand or call out in my living room and, and ask Alexa or my Google Assistant. And like magic, it happens. And we enable that through good process, good transformation, good operations, and ultimately technology.

9:44 Scott Ingram: And then talk about kind of your role, your territory a little bit, and particularly your title. I thought that was a pretty interesting story. You and I chatted about that a bit earlier.

9:51 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah. Yeah. So my official title is VP VP of Strategic Account Solutions. And the VP title doesn't mean I have a team working under me. I am an individual contributor. And really the VP title just comes from being super strategic and allows me to elevate myself within the organizations that I'm pursuing. And my territory is, is really all of North America. And I am a part of a small team that sort of operates like the Navy SEALs. So we're focused on, you know, top Fortune 10 level brands and, and so forth that, you know, are really making the world tick. And so we, we're hyper strategic in our focus and want to help enable this, this transformation with these super, super large brands. So yeah, I'm focused on really North America and some of these, these large global brands. And, you know, really need to rally the resources around me. I don't again have any dedicated employees who work under me. So I've got to hustle a bit, but also, again, work really well with shared resources, whether that be a strategic SDR, or, you know, our legal and deal desk sort of resources to help in the final stages of a deal.

11:13 Scott Ingram: Good stuff. Now, before we talk about the specifics of Brandon's results, let me tell you just a bit more about the Sales Success Summit. This is our 3rd annual event built for this Sales Success Community that's happening here in Austin on October 12th and 13th. This event is a little bit different from every other sales conference out there because it exclusively features the top-performing sales professionals you've heard here on this podcast. And my rule for guests on this show is that they have to be like Brandon, active quota-carrying individual contributors. Who are either the outright number one top seller in the organization, or at least in the top 1% of performers on a very large team. You won't find any gurus or quote unquote sales experts on the stage at this event, only real practitioners. It's an intimate experience with a max of just under 200 participants where we get an opportunity to learn a ton from each other. I could go on and on, but the details are all available for you at top1summit.com. And the sooner you register, the better your price as tickets increase $50 per month until they're sold out. Again, all the details are at top1summit.com, and pretty good chance Brandon will be there. All right, so Brandon, let's, let's put this into perspective. Quantify your results. What, what have you done the last 2 years?

12:34 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, so for me, I am focused on bookings. So what is the annual recurring revenue that I can bring on? So I work under what we call the hunter group. So my sole focus is new logo, new client acquisition. And then we have a, you know, client partner customer success group that we pass on the account, who nurtures and continues to work strategically to grow that account over time. So basically, in the past 24 months, I have closed over $20 million in total contract value, which equates to about $11 million in ARR, or $11 million in booking. So the accounts that I've brought on, which are about 7 new logos, I have… they're spending roughly $11 million a year with us.

13:25 Scott Ingram: Awesome. Now, what is your origin story? How did you get into sales in the first place?

13:30 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, I think this is a common theme, probably with everyone you speak with. Sales was not something I specifically set out to do in my career. It was something that I happened upon. And I think the roots trace back to my, you know, aspiring career as a serious soccer player. So I actually left school early to pursue a professional soccer career in Europe. And what I quickly found out with the first division club in, in Eastern Europe, in Romania, I was quite off the beaten path, which was an amazing experience. But what I quickly learned is my ambition far outweighed my actual talent, at least compared to Europeans. And it's about when I was 19, 20 years old. And if you're actually a soccer player in Europe, that's actually behind the curve. You need to start really your professional career closer to 16, 17. So it was a little behind the curve as it related to my European counterparts, but it was a great lesson. In kind of just being bold, making a bold decision, kind of following my passion and my, my, my heart. And, and I found what, what actually made me successful, what gained respect in the locker room was my work ethic. And I think that's very American in nature. So I was able to, you know, leverage those, those attributes, but then ran into some injury issues. I, I then went back to school, finished up in New York, And then, you know, ultimately landed in, in New York and I worked actually with a soccer training startup and wore many hats in that startup, including selling personal training packages. So in my, my early 20s, you know, kind of got this startup sort of taste in my mouth and this, this business entrepreneurial spirit and, and just sort of stayed with it. And then eventually transitioned to Manhattan. Took on a sales role with a music marketing company. And really from there, just was dedicated to a pure sales role everywhere I went from there.

15:42 Scott Ingram: Now, in one of your articles, you talk a lot about the intentional choices you made to come to LivePerson to put yourself in a position so that you could earn north of 7 figures. I'm curious about if you were starting over today, knowing what you know now, what would you have done differently from a career perspective?

16:03 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, I think I would've liked to have started enterprise sales earlier in my career. Not that I see a clear path of how that would've transpired. I did make a life choice to, to leave New York with, with my… she wasn't my wife at the time, but we met in New York. My wife grew up in Sarasota, Florida, where I am now. We made the life choice of leaving expensive Manhattan and, and started sort of over in, in Sarasota. And we looked at it as a just a short-term adventure, and then maybe we would move back to a larger city. Again, this is back in 2008. And as we know, at that time, there was an economic meltdown and a housing crisis, and we had never owned a home. So our 1-year sort of stint that we were looking at Sarasota for turned into a permanent venture after being able to buy our first home. At a great price. And one thing led to another and, and here we stayed. But starting over here in a small town in Florida, really, there weren't a whole lot of opportunities. This was sort of pre, you know, remote work, which is sort of the norm today. It wasn't quite the norm then. So I kind of started over and just sort of worked in SMB local sales. And knowing that, hey, leaving New York City and I was working with some pretty large brands at the music marketing company like Gucci and Crunch Fitness and Beaches Resorts, but knew I needed to start over in Sarasota. So just really cut my teeth again in the SMB sales world and then just eventually worked my way up from there. It would've been nice, I think, from an income perspective and just kind of building my brand, starting that journey maybe 10 years ago in the enterprise sales space, but It didn't, didn't work out that way. And I'm perfectly happy with, with the way things have worked out. And looking back and reflecting, I'm actually glad I was able to cut my teeth in the SMB sales world and then eventually mid-market and then eventually enterprise and then eventually, you know, super strategic accounts. I think it was a logical way that just worked out for me personally.

18:16 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's an interesting one to think about, right? If you really wanted to out of the gate knowing ultimately I want to go into enterprise sales, What is that path? Because you don't start there, right? There's, there's definitely a level of experience and business acumen and a lot of things you need to develop before you, you get to knock on the doors of a Fortune 10 company and hold your own.

18:38 Brandon Fluharty: That's right. Yeah, there are very few LeBron James out there where you can make that leap from high school to being an NBA superstar. They're, they're out there in sales. Absolutely. But I think if you can cut your teeth and just build your experience on just day-to-day sales, because it's fundamentally different, you know, working with local businesses where it's all about quantity to eventually working up the chain to enterprise and strategic accounts where it's more about quality and strategic focus and efforts with your time and energy, there are lessons learned along the whole sales journey. So again, you know, going back to the whole cold calling and just getting familiar with being comfortable face to face in my early 20s, that was important for me to build. I think it's very important for other salespeople to kind of get that experience early on before jumping into the deep end in front of a C-level executive at a Fortune 100 brand. It's going to be intimidating. Yeah, for sure.

19:42 Scott Ingram: So I want to come back to a little bit of what you shared in that article, though, because you're your strategic choice, like why you chose LivePerson and the opportunity that you tried to set yourself up for, which is obviously working, was, was really conscious. Like, talk about that and some of the ingredients and the thought process there.

20:01 Brandon Fluharty: Sure. I wasn't looking to leave where I was. I was with a late-stage startup in San Francisco, a company called Revel Systems. They had built a really good reputation in the iPad point-of-sale space. And I was on a small team, a small enterprise team that focused on bringing, you know, a lot of new modern modernization, digitization to big retail chains and restaurant chains. And I thought at the time I was happy. I just really wasn't actively looking, comfortably making 6 figures and, and, you know, well respected and so forth. But a recruiter came knocking on my door and always said to myself, hey, I, I would be open to opportunities. I kept a shortlist of companies on one side and industries on, on the other side. And, and LivePerson hit the mark on the shortlist of industries. And once I started engaging with recruiter, but more importantly with the people at LivePerson. I was really drawn in and could sense that there was a crack in the universe that LivePerson was slowly starting to open up and lead the charge on, which was again AI-powered conversational commerce, the use of bots and automation, but in a really effective way that wasn't about killing jobs in the contact center, but enhancing jobs and giving contact center agents a whole new career path that was really exciting. And it just seemed like something was bubbling and generating here at LivePerson that was just a special place to be. And that's proven to be the case, certainly for me over the past 24 months.

21:47 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's, that's great. And I think it's, it's important to really give some thought to it. You know, I think there's, there's so much of our success and our opportunity is based on just where you are in the situation that you put yourself in. And you have a lot of control over that, right? I talk a lot about the due diligence that you have to do on the front end to figure out, is this really the right place? Is this solution for real? Are people really going to buy this? Is this really going to impact the people and the companies that I'm going to sell to? And is this a team that I really want to work with? And am I going to enjoy this? Because if If you get really any of that wrong, like your job kind of sucks.

22:29 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, absolutely. And I think people, I mean, that's ultimately what sold me. I mean, really throughout my career, not just at LivePerson, but especially at LivePerson, I was really drawn to the executive team and the people. And it was every conversation that I had during that interview process. And there were about really, you know, 6 to 7 different folks that I spoke with before ultimately landing the role. And Every time I spoke with someone new and generally climbed the ranks at each juncture, I was inspired. And again, I like to keep coming back to this theme of inspiration. I think we have to constantly feel inspired ourselves. That in turn will help us to inspire our potential clients, and we need to inspire others around us to be a part of the team, be a part of something special to go after these really large transformation deals. So if we're not inspired, then we're certainly not going to help inspire others. So I think picking the right people is even more important than what you might see on the surface from a product standpoint or so forth. But I just happened to get really lucky that LivePerson also has an amazing product. I mean, it's been validated from others, you know, whether it's competitors and folks coming from competitors who have come over and they're, they're telling me like, wow, you know, LivePerson is, you know, 2 or 3 years ahead to even our prospective clients. Just met with a major hotel brand right before the holidays and they said the same thing, you know, LivePerson is, you know, at least 3 years ahead of anything that we've seen out there in the market. So that, that sort of just really quickly validated for me that I made the right move. It's not just about good people, which I think is the most important factor, but you have to have a good solution that can win in the marketplace. And then again, the culture. I think the culture at LivePerson again felt to me like a late-stage startup without the risks of being a late-stage startup. We were, you know, 20-plus-year-old company. We're established. We have a great client portfolio to reference back to. And we're public. And, you know, our stock has been really on a tear over the past 3 years. And I think those are all just like good elements. And I think it's really rare that all those things come together, as well as still being a small team, roughly 1,200 employees. So all those factors just, you know, hit everything on my list. And I kept a personal list of like, hey, this is really important to me on, on, you know, my ultimate role, and it just checked everything off. And it… and I think when, when you find that, you have to just jump on the opportunity.

25:25 Scott Ingram: Yeah, great stuff. So, I mean, the show's called Sales Success Stories. I feel like now is a good time for story time. What's, what's your favorite sales story? I'm just going to leave it open-ended at that and let you take that however you want.

25:39 Brandon Fluharty: Sure. And I, I can talk to this this client specifically because we've, we've talked about them publicly, publicly, and we have joint press releases out there and news videos and articles. When I first started LivePerson, one of the key pursuits for me was Delta Airlines. And this was before we had an SDR team in place. So I was really charged with sort of full sales cycle process. So I had to go out there and open the door, and then once I was in the door, close the deal and then pass it on to our customer success team. So I was a Diamond Medallion at the time, and, you know, when I first started and was kind of doing my demo internally after onboarding, I put sort of the experience as Delta So what I did was I tried to leverage the experience of being on their planes on a, on a week-in, week-out basis and tried to come at it from, from the angle of being their top customer. And so what I did was I created a letter, an open letter to a handful of VPs that I wrote on Medium, and I kept it unlisted so it was private. And I sent out an email, basically a teaser email to these VPs. It was shortly after I received like my diamond medallion card, my brag tag in the mail, and I took a picture of it. And I wrote this sort of… it was just this opener, it was like a 3-line opener. So it was very quick to read. And then a link to this open letter to the VPs. And one, I was able to track that through software, so I was able to see how many times it was opened. And then the open letter was basically, hey, I'm on your planes every week. I'm your biggest customer, one of your biggest fans. I noticed that you promote messaging between friends and family, but what about if I want to message Delta? I don't have that opportunity. And then I kind of went into, well, I just also happen to be spending a lot of time near planes because I go and talk to the best, the biggest brands in the world about going conversational. And I would love for the opportunity to do the same with Delta. And maybe not even a day after that, that open letter was sent, I received a phone call. In fact, I received 3 different phone calls from, you know, basically a rung under the VPs from 3 different VPs because I targeted different divisions within the organization. And long story short, it led to closing them within about a 9-month period. And at one point it got so big, the strategic focus of what we were talking about, it had to go to RFP because it was just so, so large in scope that they said, hey, you know, we can't just talk directly. We actually have to put this out to RFP. And what was very flattering during the RFP process was A lot of what we pitched to them and spoke about actually got written into the RFP. So obviously the messaging got, got across very well, but it was, it was just a very satisfying one. And I could see even it was opened by Ed Bastian, the CEO of Delta, because I was able to track it and timed it also very well with not just the open letter, but some business case basically an unsolicited business case that we also mailed to them in a really nice package. So it was just like this cool combination of, of creative outreach, a brand that I knew very well, a highly respected brand, and then it all coming together in a nice, nice deal size at the end of last year. And it was just a good confidence booster heading into 2019.

29:43 Scott Ingram: Great stuff. Love it. So you've done a lot, right? Not, not just in the last 2 years at LivePerson, but in some of your previous roles. I mean, what, what are you most proud of?

29:52 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, I think what I'm most proud of is just kind of looking back and seeing where I've come in my career to having the financial freedom and the flexibility, the respect inside the organization. You know, I've learned from each position that I've, I've had. No matter how big or small or the impact that I've had or it's had on me. And every time I've, I've taken, I felt like I've taken a step forward and it's just kind of given me an unshakable positive attitude. I wouldn't say unshakable confidence. That's starting to, to really become solidified now after some of these tremendous results over the past couple of years. That's given me unshakable confidence where I can go and just feel like I can really talk with any executive or any brand. But I think most importantly, I'm proud of the fact that I have full confidence in my own ability. And no matter where I would land, I feel like I could succeed based off of this track record. And, you know, I think the positive mindset that I've, I've developed over the years from each sales role is something that you know, I can walk away with a real true tangible asset that no matter what I put my mind to, I could be successful at it. I think it's really, really empowering.

31:15 Scott Ingram: Well, one of the things that struck me in some of the comments on some of your articles and posts is that they come from your colleagues who clearly respect the work that you've done. And they just talk about how it's been really cool to watch you do this. And one of the threads that I see in some of those comments is about the way you focus. Talk, talk about the focus piece. Like, how are you focusing? What is that? What do they mean when they say that?

31:43 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, so again, I am a big productivity nerd. I geek out on things like time tracking and just writing, planning, time blocking in my calendar, biohacking. So I really get into those things. I think It's the incremental gains that make a big difference. So it's the small things. It's not about just always doing big things. It's, it's the small little things across a number of habits that, that we, we take on in our daily lives that, that make the big difference. So I would say like the hyperfocus just, just comes from, again, trying to take on a mentality of like, what would a How would a world-class athlete operate in being the best that they can be? Again, you know, I'm in the soccer world, so, you know, I look to someone like Lionel Messi, who's consistently good every year and year after year after year. And there are numerous athletes in, in other sports that are similar to that. So I'm kind of going after GOAT status, greatest of all time status in strategic sales. I mean, that is a lofty goal for myself personally, and I I think the way to do that is you have to just focus and operate in a way of, well, I can't stay out late, you know, drinking after an event or whatever and get 3 hours of sleep and then really expect to, to get up the next day and operate at my best. I really need to think about how a world-class athlete would operate because their training regime, their diet, how they sleep, it's all tracked and monitored for them. They've coaches to really support them. So I try to take on performance coaches from a tactical perspective, from a neuroscience perspective, from a confidence and psychological perspective. So I think that's really critical for other top-performing salespeople to do is there's always a rung higher to achieve better performance. And we're… we should never be satisfied with what we have. We can always look back and be happy with our results, but it should never stop our innovation or our pursuit for excellence. So I think that's where a lot of those comments, you know, really come from, is that focus. I like to think that that really resonates with a lot of my teammates. It's something I talk about a lot internally. And, you know, I really kind of geek out on, on those things, you know, around, again, time productivity and, and so forth. I think it's, it's important for us to constantly strive for excellence.

34:30 Scott Ingram: We are going to be geeking out for, for sure. But I want to talk about what do you find to be the biggest challenge or what do you struggle with the most?

34:39 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, I'm kind of going through that right now in the sense that, you know, coming off of a massive year like I had in 2019, You know, the downside of that is your pipeline gets depleted. You put in such rigorous effort and time and energy and focus on closing out these deals. And I had one deal, another major airline that went all the way to the line last year. It was literally, we closed it out on New Year's Eve on the 31st when, you know, that's a time to sort of rest and recharge and be strategic. So during the holiday period, you know, really kind of closing that out. And, you know, it really came hard to me just really a few days ago, starting 2020, that, you know, really it's ground zero again. It's an all new year. Before we know it, it's going to be the end of 2020. And, you know, my pipeline needs some work. So it's always that chicken and egg kind of thing. But again, kind of now going back to the foundations that I've, I've built, the confidence that I have in myself knowing, hey, remember 2 years ago you were just starting out and you were able to surpass quota in your first year, not knowing anything. And you were able to really, you know, almost 4x that, actually 5x that last year. And so I can take that confidence knowing that even though I, I don't quite know specifically what account is going to pop and when. I know that, you know, things can work out because I'm going to focus on the right process and the right daily habits to, to get the pipeline full again.

36:27 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Well, I'm also a productivity and habit nerd. So why don't we start to dig into that? And the way that I generally like to frame this and start this conversation is just to do kind of a walkthrough of good solid day in the life, all the way from your alarm goes off. I want to know what time that happened, and I want a pretty detailed blow-by-blow until your head hits the pillow.

36:52 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, so I'm not a morning person, but I love being a morning person. So I think for me it really starts the night before. I really like to get at least 7.5 hours of good sleep. And being on the road almost on a weekly basis, my… and this is something I'm working on for 2020, is to be more consistent with my routine. But I like to come up, you know, I can start my day no matter what it is after about 7, 7 and a half hours of sleep. That's not always possible, but let's just say I'm home on the East Coast. I like to get started around 6:00 AM. In an ideal world, I would even like that to be earlier. But 6:00 AM gives me enough time to have some quiet time before, you know, everything starts getting hectic again. Um, the first thing I like to do, obviously just kind of get up. I, I, I try to shy away from looking at my phone first thing other than just hitting the alarm. And I also do sleep tracking, which I do through Whoop, W-H-O-O-P. It's sort of a Fitbit on steroids. It's what a lot of athletes use for sort of sleep tracking and activity monitoring. So I, I kind of process my sleep so I know how many, how much sleep I got. And then the first thing I'd like to do is after drinking a full glass of water is sit down and meditate for 20 minutes. And I think that quiet time and especially doing that, it just really helps the brain first thing to kind of just steady yourself and, and sort of get into a flow state. So that's, that's sort of like the, the first half hour of my day. And then, then I kind of transition into just putting on some, some coffee, really, really big believer in strong espresso. I don't eat yet. I try to, to kind of go through fasting in the, the early part of the, the day. So I, I put my espresso on and then just try to get into a flow through writing. And I'm a big believer. I use EvoPlanner, kind of my, my go-to, although I, I do have tons of journals, different types of journals and planners that I've tried out. But the EvoPlanner helps kind of give me a template to use. And the cool thing about EvoPlanner, Evo, is it is built for a specific brain type. And my brain type, according to Evo, is the Alchemist. So it structured the template for my kind of brain type of kind of what's going to get me ticking through writing. So, you know, writing things like what I'm grateful for and the top 3 things I want to achieve, what are my priority tasks and, you know, how much time am I going to need for those tasks? So it just sort of helps get me in a good state of mind. And then I go back and, you know, have my coffee, have breakfast, let me catch up with some news. Then I start kind of looking at my phone. You know, seeing if there's anything urgent in my inbox. And then I try to tackle my, you know, my, my big hairy goal, the, the, the biggest one, get that out of the way first. And I find that that is a good boost of confidence as well. When I can get the biggest task off of my plate, it just gives me a lot of energy and impetus to keep driving forward through throughout the day. And then, you know, I, I use actually a cool tool called Timeular. Timeular is a cool little product out of Germany, I believe. T-I-M-E-U-L-A-R. And it's just great for showing you where you spend your time. And I also am a big believer in Pomodoro Technique. So you work in a highly concentrated way for 25 minutes and no distractions, no multitasking. So I try to limit that and focus. So if I'm going to be writing emails or I'm gonna be working on a proposal or working on a presentation, that's all that I'm focused on for that dedicated amount of time. And the idea is you work for 25 minutes and then off for 5 minutes. So I really try to take a break, a step away from my desk, go have some water. Again, not really look at the phone, just, just sort of like take it easy for, for 5 minutes and then come back to that highly concentrated effort. And 3 of those is sort of like a full Pomodoro. So you're kind of working for like 90 minutes and then you take a longer extended break for 15 minutes. Again, in an ideal world, that, that's what I'm doing if I'm home. And I try to get 6 to 8 Pomodoros in. So, or really I should say 6 to 8 25-minute highly concentrated efforts in, in a day. And then of course there's going to be an hour scheduled here for a call or a meeting or so forth that also kind of comprise the rest of the day. And then I like to work out usually in the evening. That's when my energy is, is highest. Although I would like to start doing that in the morning. So that's another effort for, for me and a focus for 2020 is to try to shift that to the first part of the day. But typically I do work out. I'm a cyclist. So during the week, I hop on what's called the indoor trainer and do what's called Zwift, which is like virtual cycling. It's a pretty cool setup. So I can get a good workout on the indoor trainer during the week because it's typically dark at that time. I don't want to actually be out on the road and then just kind of wind down for the rest of the day, you know, have dinner, hang out, chill out with the wife, watch a show or two, and then start winding down for bed. You know, I like to read typically for 10, 15, 20 minutes before bedtime. And then I actually like to listen to hypnosis. Actually, Omvana is a great app for that. O-M-V-A-N-A. There are different themes for the hypnosis, but I'm actually a big believer in it. It's just a great way to sort of kind of mellow out. It helps get me into a restful state, sleep state. And it's, it's kind of focused on, on, on the theme that's important to me at the, at that stage of my life. And that sort of rounds out the day and then get up and do it all over again.

43:14 Scott Ingram: Nice. So we will have links to all of the stuff that you're mentioning throughout at top1.fm forward slash either the episode number or top1.fm forward slash Brandon-Fluharty. So either of those will, will take you to all of this stuff that we've talked about. You know, I, I think the Pomodoro thing in particular, I mean, if you get 6 to 8 Pomodoros done, that's an hour and a half to 2 hours of really focused work. I would be willing to bet that, that just that will… that focused work compared to somebody that's just sort of unfocused going through their day and being distracted is probably worth 2 times the result that they produce in a full day. Is that a fair statement?

43:57 Brandon Fluharty: I think that's an absolutely fair statement. What's been interesting with the, the Timeular tracking is that we, we think we work 8, 10, 12 hours a day. It's really not true. I mean, we're, we're really working concentrated efforts of 4 to 5 hours truly in, in, in a day. And that's someone who's focused, right? And, and I'm lucky that I work remotely, so I don't have the, the water cooler distractions. I don't have someone, you know, pulling me in, in a million different directions when I'm in an office environment. So yeah, I think if we really track, you know, true behavior of someone like in an office, that productivity is probably limited to, to maybe 1, 2 hours at best. So yeah, it just kind of goes to show, I think we, we need to give a, get away from schedule-based productivity and, and just get more into task-based productivity. You know, we should work on our timetable that matches our energy levels and just focus on the key things that are important. And for us in sales, it's obviously the revenue-generating activities are the most important. So know your, your hourly rate. I think that's another big thing. If you have that really well crystallized, if you know, you know, how much you made last year to the hours logged by your HR system, I think it would be a really telling number when you calculate your base salary and plus your commissions and bonuses. If you know that, that hourly rate, then it will help you to really focus in on, hey, how should I spend my time? You know, if I did an hour of this, is that going to generate, you know, the revenue I need? And why will my hourly rate be the same or higher next year if I do these things? So knowing that is a great way to like, and you just post it and you just know that number intimately inside and out. I think that will help you to focus your efforts and your time more effectively.

45:57 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And if you're listening to this and totally geeking out with Brandon and I, I've got 2 resources for you, Brandon. One I'm going to send you, the other one you'll just have to listen to. I've got an interview scheduled. I haven't had the conversation yet, so it'll probably be, I don't know that it'll be the next episode. It's probably 2 episodes out. So about a month from now. I'm gonna be talking to the most time-tracked metric guy I've ever heard of. And, and he was number one. I, I think I, I, I don't remember the exact setup here, but I'm pretty sure that he was number one and working a 3-day work week. And he said he, he did, he's logged something like 15,000 time entries. So he's just super granular about the way that he tracks his time and he's got this all all figured out. So I'm, I'm super excited about that conversation just because I like to geek out on this stuff also. And then Brandon, what I'll send you and what's available to anyone listening, if you join the listener list, if you go to top1.fm and poke your name and email address in there, I will send you any video that you want from the 2019 Sales Success Summit. And I did a presentation there because the most common question I get and what surprises a lot of people. So if you're new to the show, because I know a lot of new people have started started listening here in the new year, this is not what I do for a living. Even though, you know, I, I do this podcast, I do the Daily Sales Tips podcast, I put on a summit, we'll publish a book in Q2. I also have a $3 million quota that I manage during the day. And so most people are like, how on earth are you doing that? Oh, and oh, by the way, I've got 2 kids and, you know, a life. And I did, I did a keynote at a 45-minute presentation at the summit that I called the 4P Productivity Process. And it's basically just what I do. It's how I structure my day, but it's really about how I prep and plan for my day because my days don't typically look the same. I mean, we're having this conversation on a Tuesday at 3 o'clock. Well, Central Time, a little bit later, later for you, right? And, and so I'm able to, to do that just because of, of this system. So if that's of interest, and, and again, Brandon, I'll send you the, the code so that you can take a look at it because I think you'll you'll enjoy it and take some pieces out because I'm certainly learning from elements of what you're doing. And I've got a couple of tools to check out, especially this Whoop thing.

48:15 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, no, I love it. Yeah, that's… I'm excited to see it. It's really impressive, the amount of work that you can juggle. And it's interesting. I think I was really attracted to your work, Scott, because you yourself, you're an active quota carrier. And I wholeheartedly believe that the best advice comes from those who are carrying a bag every day. And it's not just coming from the quote unquote sales gurus and those who've sort of been far removed for many years from the dynamics of today's world. So it's really impressive to hear your work and can't wait to see some of those tools.

48:56 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. Are there any other kind of habits or routines that fit in that we didn't cover in the blow-by-blow walkthrough?

49:04 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, so I'm a big, big believer in Getting Things Done. So GTD, and it was a book by David Allen, and I mean, it was written 20, 30 years ago, and it's sort of the de facto for productivity. And it's, it's a full-on system, and I highly recommend that. It's kind of one of the things that have, has sort of changed my habits and outlook on productivity. And so I'm a big believer in that. And then there are numerous software programs that you can use to match the GTD method, but one that I particularly like is Nirvana. I think it's nirvanahq.com. And it literally, the software is built that, you know, you can use it on your desktop to your tablet, to your mobile device, and it matches GTD, getting things done to a T in everything that, you know, the methodology applies, the software mimics. So kind of working in that framework has really, really helped me to keep a focus and keep a focus not on just daily tasks, but, but like, what am I striving for? What's the greater good that I'm trying to reach in life? And I think that's kind of one of the key benefits of GTD. It's not just about being crossing things off your to-do list. That's not the key to life. It's about kind of getting things out of your head so you can focus on the, you know, the bigger picture ideas. And one thing that David Allen talks about is, you know, your mind is not meant for, you know, thinking, you know, it's not meant for keeping ideas, it's for generating ideas. So as much as you can get out of your head and in a system that you trust, And you come back to on a regular basis to, to kind of organize that at a macro level and a micro level. It's, it's really important. So highly, highly recommend that methodology and that book.

51:04 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Also, also core to my process, one of the first things I talked about in that presentation, and unfortunately that presentation forced me to look this up because I don't like the book. The way that I came to GTD is I, somebody gave me a CD set. So obviously I'm dating myself, but I got a CD set of him presenting a 2-day seminar and walking through the whole process. And it's amazing. And if you go to top1.fm/gtd, it'll link straight to that CD set by David Allen. I think it's $100, probably the best $100 you can spend if you're interested in… if you got… if you're still listening to this and us geek out on just the details of the habits and the routines and productivity, Productivity Systems. That to me is sort of the, the gold standard. And again, it's, it's the core of what I do. It's… I'm not very strict around it. I've, I've bastardized it a lot in the 10 years since I really discovered it. But if you're just starting and, and you've not done any work or seen any of David Allen's stuff, that… I can't recommend that resource highly enough. It's, it's really, really great stuff. Now, Brandon, what about your information diet? Like, what are you reading, listening to, and watching? And, and when does that happen? Happen beyond when you're in bed with a book? Yeah.

52:29 Brandon Fluharty: So I'm, I'm, I'm big on just constantly evolving my sales skills. Again, I don't think that… I don't believe in the title guru. I don't think anybody can truly be a guru. I think it's a constant evolution and at best we can be an expert, but there's always room for improvement there. So I'm, you know, besides some of like just biohacking and productivity things. I'm just constantly working on sales skills. So anything along those lines, podcasts, you know, your own, you know, big, big, big fan of Andy Paul and the Sales House. He's got a lot of great content there. And, you know, I actually work with Andy as a coach. So big believer in kind of what he does and some of the stuff Again, he's, he's a proven seller. He's, he's removed from the selling process, but, you know, still has to sell. But I think he's sort of proven himself back in the day of, you know, doing some massive stuff in the emerging technology space back in Silicon Valley in its heyday. So that, that's always kind of top of mind. And then just obviously staying in touch with the industry around conversational commerce. And we put out tons of content at LivePerson. So just trying to stay up to speed on, on that. And, you know, just the industry of AI and automation, and really, you know, my prospective clients' industry. So, you know, heavy in the travel and hospitality space, focus a lot on pursuing brands in those spaces. So Skift, you know, daily newsletters from, you know, travel industry, and things like that. That's, it's really important for me to just kind of pick up and stay in touch with. So broad, broad base. I try not to overdo it. I don't want to burn out. So obviously need to, to step away and have that personal time for exercise and meditation and family time and all that good stuff. But as much content as I can soak up and just kind of pursuing, you know, my industry as well as my clients' industry and sales skills as well as traditional productivity stuff. That's sort of all in my wheelhouse.

54:46 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's great. I love that you kind of talked about the guru thing. I always think of it, and I think of so many folks like yourself that have been on this show, it's almost counterintuitive, right? These are the best of the best, and you would think, oh, well, they got it. They don't have to do this work. And yet they work on it harder than anybody else. And I think right there is your answer. And I think of it as being a student. Of sales or a student of life or any of this stuff. I mean, I bristle at the idea of… I mean, every now and then somebody will call me a sales expert. I'm like, are you kidding me? You know, I don't begin to have all the answers, right? This is such a work in progress. There's so much more to learn and there's so much better that I could be than I am. And I mean, that's why I do all of this stuff. I mean, this is my information diet is I get to talk with, with all of these folks and, and not just on the, on the podcast. It's the, it's the one-off conversations that, that happen as well. Now, before I'm gonna forget, I've forgotten twice already. What about when you're traveling? Like, how are you managing that? Because I, I always find that to be… that just blows up my routines and, and I, I struggle with that personally.

55:57 Brandon Fluharty: You and me both. That is the biggest area for improvement in my life for, for sure. And I couldn't imagine being a global rep that has to do this internationally. You know, I'm, I'm exhausted enough just from, from traveling across the country. But yeah, I would say, hey, if you, if you get a good guest on, this is a call to action. Anybody out there listening, if you have mastered travel, mastered productivity and wellness, and can get into consistent routine, let's, let's have somebody on as a guest because I would love to hear it. Yeah, it's, it's the best, at least the advice that I've been given that I have yet to really intake and practice it properly is just maintaining a routine. So getting up consistent at the same time, if you're, if you're changing time zones and on the West Coast, kind of keep to the same time zone that you're generally working in, I think is important, kind of keeping up the health and exercise, I think eating well, you know, preparing your own snacks and not just kind of relying on what's available to you. I know you're probably similar. You travel a lot. So kind of getting the upgrades, you're, you're always constantly greeted with snacks and drinks and all of those things. So kind of resisting the temptation just because it's easy doesn't mean it's, it's, it's free game to partake in those things. So yeah, I think just kind of As much as you can retain a routine and that balance and stay as healthy as possible, I think those things would work out. But again, I'm, I'm no, you know, no pinnacle of execution there. This is something still that's a work in progress for me.

57:42 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Well, I love the call to action. So hopefully some folks will reach out. I mean, the qualifier still applies. You have, you have to be a top performer. But if you know somebody like that or you're listening and you are that guy, please don't be shy. Don't be so humble. That you can't have a conversation with me because I, I think we can all learn from, from that because yeah, I'm, I'm with you. I don't have, I don't have great advice. I'm, I'm constantly tweaking and just trying to figure out how to, how to make that work. And honestly, I, and more recently I've almost gone in the other direction to where I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna stop trying so hard. I travel, recognize that travel is hard and I'm not gonna be able to be as productive. So you know what? I'm not gonna work on the plane. Maybe I'm just gonna read a book or maybe I'm gonna veg out and, and watch, watch something on the, on the screen, or, you know, and just…

58:28 Brandon Fluharty: that's right…

58:29 Scott Ingram: giving yourself a break and giving yourself permission, like, okay, I don't have to go 100 miles an hour all the freaking time.

58:34 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, I think that's right. I think we do sort of get bogged down and seeing others working or others on phone calls, like, we feel like we've got to be just as productive and/or constantly working. I do find that sometimes the best thing to do is just close the laptop, you know, turn, turn it off and just, just chill out. You know, like it's okay to watch a movie and it's okay to disconnect. And even if you're sort of traveling during prime hours, like it's okay. Give yourself that permission because you know that if you're rested, you're recharged, you can hit the ground running when you land and feel that much better. So absolutely, I think that is terrific advice. Just give yourself the permission to Rest is perfectly okay.

59:19 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So we've covered a lot of them, but are there any other tools and apps that are just core to the way that you function?

59:27 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, I think we've, we've covered a lot. Again, I'm a big, big believer in writing. I think another thing that, that's been helpful, it's not that you have to use a specific app for this, but just, you know, one thing that we do that I was introduced here at LivePerson It was brought to us from many folks who came over from Amazon. Amazon's a big believer in memos, and it can get a little intimidating at first when you're bombarded with memos. But I think it's really, really important that when you can write out and articulate a message, I think it helps to crystallize it for you personally, but also it helps to helps the audience to anchor to, to what you're trying to talk about and, and plan and discuss and work on. So one thing that I've started to do with my prospective clients is actually anchor to an executive memo, and, and I try to write it like a creative story and, and sort of use illustrative language like, that's exciting, like, you know, what your brand could look like in 3 years. This is how we we can achieve that. Here are the benefits. Here are the resources required to get this transformation off the ground. And I find that it's a really kind of going back to the intrapreneur mindset. Like if you can craft a really good memo at the sort of the executive ADD level, like it's, it's shorter than, than 6, 7, maybe even less than 5 minutes that you could, articulate in detail, but really thoughtful and concise. It's a, it's a hard balance, but if you can kind of do both, it's a great way to earn the respect and the admiration. And you almost just make your executive sponsor on the other side, you make their life easier because you've thought through it, because that's what they have to articulate to the ultimate signer. You know, they're gonna need sign-off on this big transformation from their CFO or their COO. Or their CEO, if you can put something like that, a really well-articulated memo, this is why your brand needs to change. And here's how we're going to do it. I think that can be almost more effective than a really good presentation.

1:01:50 Scott Ingram: Man, that is really right. Because you can't go re-see the presentation, right? But you can reread something in 5 minutes.

1:01:56 Brandon Fluharty: That's right.

1:01:57 Scott Ingram: Clearly, you are good at this. I mean, your, your articles are excellent. And it worked on Delta. So How long, I mean, how long have you had sort of this writing routine?

1:02:06 Brandon Fluharty: So, so kind of going back to like what I thought I would be, it was like kind of growing up in, in high school more in particular before I like really got into soccer. Yeah. I just was always drawn to writing. I thought I would be a writer, an author. So I've always had the knack for, for writing. And even when I was an athlete training in Europe and playing in Europe, But like, I think one of the saviors for me is just like keeping my sanity, you know, being in a foreign country was just writing every day. I would just kind of get the thoughts out of my head and just like write down my dreams and goals and like where would I… I'd like to be in a year or 2 and even like keeping track of my diet and things like that. So writing was just always something that was just natural to me, something that I always liked. But I'd say like I've really used it in the workforce, like always interested in writing articles and blog posts and, and kind of incorporating social selling. I've kind of always done that throughout my career, kind of early to LinkedIn when it first came out and then eventually Twitter and blogging and all that. But as far as using it external facing in front of clients, that's relatively new. It's really since since I've been at LivePerson. And I, again, I have found that it's just a great way to, before you get to the proposal stage, it's almost the template for your proposal. It keeps both sides aligned. Oh, remember when we talked about this? We, we, we sort of signed off on this jointly. This is what it's going to need from a resource perspective, or, you know, this is, these are the results that, that we're going for. You know, we're talking about enhancing the customer experience, not just Saving on operating expense. We agreed to that, right? Has something changed? So it just keeps both parties anchored throughout the sales process, and especially for strategic enterprise deals. We know you know this is not a three-month, you know, open the door, you know, get the deal done in in sixty ninety days. It's just not going to happen. You know these are long sales cycles. So using an executive memo, I think is is a great. It's it's certainly been a great resource for me that's been really effective.

1:04:19 Scott Ingram: Yeah, I mean, I, I love this idea, and I think anchor is exactly the right word because if you think about the customer buying experience, I mean, how confusing is it for them? I mean, they're, they're getting presentations from not just you and all the, all the greatness that, that you're imparting to them, but they're talking to 2, 3, 4, 5 other, other companies, and all that stuff gets all jumbled up in their head. So if you've got something clear, concise. It's kind of that touchstone of like, let's come back to the core of what we're trying to do and what differentiates us and how we're actually going to make this happen for you and why we're the right choice.

1:04:55 Brandon Fluharty: That's absolutely right. I use it as a differentiator because the different companies can say the same thing. They might articulate it slightly different. But if you can get back to the, the true business value of change. Again, get back to inspiring them. What is it that's going to make their life better? You've thought through the business outcomes and the challenges and the risks. And you can articulate that in a 1, 2, 3-page document at most that takes them less than 10 minutes to read and reread and share. Yeah, it's a great way of differentiating yourself from everybody else who's Putting out similar content because you know we we know again I don't even know what the stats are but you know the information that's absorbed in these presentations or these meetings it needs to be reinforced and again I think an executive memo is a great way to keep you focused keep the client prospective client focused and come back to that that ultimate inspiration tying their North Star initiatives to the… and making it real and tangible that this transformation can occur and reach the goals that the company has set out to achieve in the years to come. So I think it's just a super, super powerful tool. Can't talk it up enough.

1:06:23 Scott Ingram: Yeah, no kidding. I mean, this is totally my biggest takeaway. There's just so much power in what that is. I mean, Even again, just, just thinking about what was the last presentation you saw? I don't care what it was, right? Whether it was a company presentation at your SKO, it's that time of year, or the last webinar you watched. Think back to that presentation. How much do you remember?

1:06:44 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, there's like 1 or 2 little nuggets, right? Right. Of like 100 presentation slides.

1:06:49 Scott Ingram: And as much as we prepare and as hard as we work to deliver great presentations, that's the experience that our buyers are having with us. So anyway, I Yeah, this is a great, great gold nugget for sure. Now, I know that you subscribe to a productivity philosophy. Do you subscribe to a specific sales philosophy?

1:07:10 Brandon Fluharty: No, no. I mean, I've seen it all. Well, not all of it, but I've come across MEDDIC to the Challenger Sale. I mean, you name it. And I just, I think there are things that work from, from every, I don't think there's a golden arrow. There's no one true framework or methodology. I think this again comes back to that entrepreneurial spirit that you need to adopt for yourself. No one company looks exactly the same. There are similarities between a Google and an Amazon and a, and an Apple. But they're fundamentally, they have different cultures, they have different focuses, they have, you know, different outcomes. So I think there's good things to take away from everything that comes across your way and every book that you read, but there's really no one way to, to do it for everyone. That, that's at least the takeaway for me. And I will continue to endeavor and read all of the different sales methodologies and frameworks and be inspired by them and incorporate some of the cool takeaways from each of them. But I don't think there's that one golden arrow that, you know, is one size fits all for everyone.

1:08:31 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's, that's, that's basically the answer, folks. Yeah, there, you know, I don't think it is one. And I think it is, again, it comes back to this idea of you have to be a student of sales, you have to experiment with and understand all kinds of different methodologies and try things and just kind of figure out what works for you. And at the end of the day, you end up sort of assembling your own methodology. And, you know, the challenge with that is we can't all be automatons and there's not, there's not this cookie cutter. I mean, when I speak, I tell people, look, I can't give you The recipe, there isn't one. What I can give you though is the ingredients and, and you just have to sort of experiment with those ingredients and find what works for you in, in your situation that fits you and your company and the environment that you're selling in and your marketplace and that particular client. And it's just, it's different for everybody. And I know that's, that's frustrating because it just goes back to this idea of like, there's, there's no secret to any of this. There's no silver bullet. You just, You have to work at this and hone your craft.

1:09:42 Brandon Fluharty: That's right. And I think that's where the magic and the excitement of sales comes in is, is where you can be, you know, that working in the lab and sort of creating and tinkering and taking an idea from here and, you know, a tactic from another methodology from over here and put that together and create your own and then add your own voice and then add your own experimentation and you know, learn from your successes and your failures and then continue to evolve and tweak it. Like, that's the fun part. Like, that's what brings personality to sales and looking for that silver bullet. Like, I think anybody who is, I mean, we're all looking to improve, especially high performers, but I don't think any of us are looking for like, just show me and tell me, and then I become a robot and I'll regurgitate it, or I will, You just, you're not gonna achieve greatness and stellar results and, and surpass quota that way. It, it's, you have to create your own. And I think everybody who's listening here are, are probably drawn to your podcast for a reason because they're also high achievers. And, and hopefully there's a lot of not, you know, head nodding that, yeah, absolutely. There's, there's no one sales framework or methodology that is the end-all and be-all. I, I've learned a little bit from, from everything throughout my career. Otherwise, like, there, I think there would be a, a strong university track. And I, I know some colleges and universities are, are bringing in more sales into the education environment, but really, like, you know, it's, it's, it's not like becoming a doctor. And like, there is no like step-by-step method that in for 8, 12 years, like, here's, here's what it means to be a stellar salesperson. It's really different for everyone. And it's different in every industry. Selling real estate is fundamentally different than selling enterprise software SaaS. So yeah, I think it's just, it's, it's going to be reliant on folks like yourself, you know, putting good content out there and continuing to just be access to good resources and other sellers who have done what we've done, which is just, let's, let's take a little bit from here and there and get into the laboratory or get into the kitchen, take those ingredients and make our own recipe. Because that's what it takes.

1:12:13 Scott Ingram: Yeah, yeah. So we've talked about a couple of your, your top 5 kind of components, or not top 5 components, but your 5 elements. So we've talked about time and focus, Let's talk about the motivation piece. Like, what, what is that for you? Like, what motivates you? How do you think about motivation? What, what is that?

1:12:31 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, so I want to get excited about it, you know, every day to work on these large transformations. If, if, if I were in more of a transactional role, I, I don't think I would be as excited or motivated of just, you know, getting something done, and it just doesn't feel like it would make an impact to that brand or, or, you know, again, no offense to anybody in the commodity space, but I love, you know, getting these deals that are in the headlines. It's so fascinating watching like Delta Airlines who closed, you know, late in 2018, a year later seeing their CEO go on a morning talk show and talk about, hey, you can message us inside our app and that's the best way to communicate with us during the busy holiday travel season. And we brought that to life. So, so seeing these things come to life is really motivating for me. And I want to continue to do that. I want to like now go on to the next one. What's the next industry? Can we break into the hotel industry and do the same for a major hotel brand? Can we do the same thing with a major restaurant chain, a retailer and so forth? So I like to hone in on what I call the diamond accounts. And in one of the articles that you'll share with, with your audience in the 7 Lessons from Reaching 7 Figures in SaaS Sales, I give a tool that folks can download and it's built… it's sort of a step-by-step approach to just easily identify what's important to you. Like, what are the key criteria? And for me, there's like 5 criteria that are important for me of what makes a really good account. So for me, I like a company first. Again, can we, we lock down the first major airline to go conversational? I have some sort of industry expertise so I can kind of talk the talk in front of the client and I have the confidence. It can be a big deal, a major 7-figure deal or larger, and they can move fast. So I shy away from things like financial services for a reason. They're, you know, it's the sales process can get stalled during the auditing process and the security process. So it's just an industry that I try to stay away from. For instance, I like to move a little bit faster. And then ultimately interesting that we can do something interesting with the brand. They're, they're on the cusp of innovation or they need to go in, into more of an innovation mindset. They're, they're going through maybe some transformations internally with shaking things up. So I try to like plot that out on a Venn diagram. And then, and, you know, I, I really try to define, well, what does that mean? What is interesting? What is an industry first? What's my domain expertise? And then I just map that out. And then in the middle is, is like a diamond. And the closer they are and the more they touch of each of the circles within the Venn diagram and come closer to the diamond account, the higher, you know, the more points it scores and the higher that account gets ranked. And then that becomes my strategic account list to really focus on. And that's what motivates me of like, I can get up and like, oh wow, I'm working with a really large global brand that everybody knows. I can fundamentally change and make customers happy if we get this over the finish line. So that's what excites me and motivates me.

1:16:09 Scott Ingram: Nice. Now, you also talked about managing your energy. What is… what does that mean and how do you do that?

1:16:15 Brandon Fluharty: So it's going back to that idea of that we can't be workaholics and be expected to sustain good work over the long term. I'm sure you've experienced it with other reps that, you know, you have a really massive year and then the next year it's like, oh, you know, and not quite as strong. And I'm trying to avoid that like the plague. I want to consistently be good. Going back to like the Lionel Messi example, like he in soccer, he like, he is a top performer every week, every year, every season, you know, year after year, every tournament. And that's why he wins the major awards, both personally and with his team, wins, wins the trophies. And I like, I wanna follow a similar path in, in sales. And I think it's really important to know when it's time to put in that intense work. And the same thing is when it's right to just step away, like similar to what we're talking about, when it's give your permission, give yourself permission to just rest and recharge on the plane. Those are great little pockets of time to manage your energy effectively. Because if we're constantly traveling and then working on the presentation until the wee hours in the morning, then get up early and we're expecting ourselves to be in peak performance mode in front of the client, it's just unrealistic. Of course, those moments are going to come up time to time. But as much as we can operate like a world-class athlete, like you, you know, when it's time, you gotta like like get to bed early and you gotta like shut down. And if it's harder for you to sleep on the road than it is in your own bed at home, like you got to take that into account. Like what are the things to help kind of get you relaxed and, and able to, to go to sleep sooner rather than later? So how you eat and, and consume alcohol and things like that, I think all those things need to be considered so that when it is time to perform, when it is time to work, you're maximizing your concentration, you're maximizing your ability to speak and articulate well in front of your audience. That's really what I mean by managing energy. We need to operate more like a world-class athlete.

1:18:30 Scott Ingram: Yeah. One, one of my all-time favorite articles on, on that topic, there is a Harvard Business Review article that talks about managing your energy, not your time. And it's amazing. Right. And there's some pieces of it that are, that are counterintuitive. Well, one of the parts is that the… I feel like the main point of the article is you should take naps, and I'm just really bad at that. I can't do it. But the, the other piece that's just interesting and, and again counterintuitive is that you would think that, oh well, I have this finite amount of energy for today. And so if you think about it that way, the last thing you would want to do is go work out and use some of that energy against a workout when you could have apply it professionally, where the opposite is actually true. If you go work out, you're going to get more energy, even though it takes energy. It is sort of 2 different types of energy. It's a fascinating article. We'll have that linked up as well. I'm going to put my show notes guy to work. Kevin, thank you so much, because he's going to be working on this one. But, you know, it's those types of things. And again, I love how holistic you are in your thinking about this, right? It's not just one element. It's not just being really productive and managing your time. It's also the motivation, and it's also the energy, and it's also where you're focusing. And you're gonna have to remind me what the 5th thing is, because I may as well ask you about that.

1:19:49 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, so prioritization. So it's kind of time, energy, motivation, prioritization, and focus. And like, for me, like, prioritization is just like, how are you going to prioritize your time? And I think at the macro level, it's very simple in sales. We should be prioritizing our time on the things that, you know, maximize revenue or bookings. So obviously, that's, that's a given. But then, you know, there's sort of sub-levels there too, of like, well, there's a lot of revenue-generating activities that I can do, you know, which, which one are the ones that, that, you know, are at the top? And what are my top 3? And then, so for me, that exercise of like, highlighting and honing in on my diamond accounts. That's always going to change because once you get into an account, you may realize, well, it's not as fast moving or it's not, there's just not, the timing isn't right quite as what I expected. I might be reading some things in the headlines and inferring things about that brand that are just not quite right when internally inside the 4 walls, maybe they're a little bit more dysfunctional and just, they can't organize the, you know, the executive sponsor or find, you know, it's hard for you to identify a mobilizer who can really mobilize all the resources necessary for a transformational sale. So then you kind of like step back and say, okay, well, that account might not be where I should be spending the majority of my time. Maybe I need to rank another account a little bit higher and then kind of go all in on like, Okay, let's, let's, let's write the story of the success. So again, going back to the writing, maybe I'll create a memo of like, here's, here's ultimately what the success of this account would look like. What would it look like in a year's time if I were to close this deal? Then I'll work backwards of like, well, I want to know their customer experience because I'm selling it to B2C brands. I want to know their customer experience better than anyone I speak with on the phone or anyone I meet with in person. And so I need to know that really inside and out. What is it like to be on hold with that company? What is, you know, what's the robot, the IVR, the interactive voice recognition in their phone system telling me to do? If I reach out to them on Facebook Messenger, will I get a response? You know, when I'm leaving, what's, what's the, you know, maybe I'm checking out, like a cruise ship, for instance, they… the first thing that… or excuse me, the last experience you have is you're dealing with the bill, and it's a very arduous process. You're standing in line, and it's not the last impression you want to leave. You just had a great time over a 5-day period. You don't want to be talking about billing discrepancies and standing in line. To deal with that. And that's your lasting impression. So how could that be enhanced through a conversational experience? So thinking through all those things, the complete consumer journey, I want to like have that in mind. And again, it takes time, it's strategic planning, I'm prioritizing, is this going to give me a return if I put in the effort to do that and spend my time doing that? But again, the more experience you have, the more deals you close, you start to get into a repeatable process where you can sort of templatize a lot of that. And then, then you're just starting to operate like a well-oiled machine. And that's ultimately what I'm trying to do, kind of year 3 at LivePerson is, is operate more like a well-oiled machine. I've got some really great deals that are giving me some momentum and tailwinds. Now, how do I to, you know, when I… my pipeline is, is light, how can I repeat that process and speed up that process with, with other brands who, you know, I'm not quite engaged with at a deep level?

1:23:53 Scott Ingram: So I want to come back, and I just can't let this idea go, and I want to riff a little bit more on the memo idea because maybe you're doing this, but as you were talking through that, I actually have like this, this vision of as you're doing the prioritization, right, you, you've identified, I think, think this is the account where I really want to focus my effort. It seems like you could sort of write a draft of that memo and sort of, here's, here's my idea from the outside. You know, I probably haven't had enough conversations. I've not done all the work that I need to do to flush this all the way out. But here, here's kind of my first guess, or here's my draft of this memo. And maybe you can even leverage some of that language in your prospecting and the way that you're opening the door. And then Essentially turning it into a working document where you're working with the client to how do we write this story together?

1:24:43 Brandon Fluharty: That is exactly it. I think that's the, that's the evolution. I look at it as sort of 3 major steps, 3 major milestones. One, it's personal. This is where you start personally before anyone else has put their eyes to it, has even looked at it. This is just a story you create for yourself. Like this is a, okay, I've identified this account. It's compelling. I own it in my CRM, my Salesforce. I can go after this account. So what does success look like? And you're almost just writing it. This is where like you can let the creative juices flow and you can go wild here with your imagination. Like what does success look like? And then you do that in person. So that's your framework. And then it starts to become a bit more formalized. And it, for me, the next milestone is internally because I'm gonna need other folks rallied behind this, this pursuit and I'm gonna need their input. So it actually then goes to internal review and then it starts to become, you know, shaped up a little, becomes a little bit more formalized, as I said. And then absolutely like the third milestone is putting in front of a client. And this might be a separate copy than the internal one, or it might be an evolution of the internal internal one, but then it gets in front of the customer and becomes your working document. And you'll know the right time to present it. Typically, I like to do it after a good first meeting with, again, someone who I feel is, you know, whether you want to call them an immobilizer or your executive sponsor, the person who you know is going to be blocking and tackling for you inside that organization. That's when you put it in front of them and and start to use it as a working document that will again get tweaked and evolved over time between the two of you.

1:26:33 Scott Ingram: Man, this, this is fascinating. So I'm thinking about one of, one of the… well, there were a lot of popular presentations at the last summit, but one, one that I think ended up in the, in the top 3 or top 5. Trey Simonton talked about joint action planning or joint… shoot, now I can't even think what the with the, with the title of the, of the talk was. But it's basically this idea of it's essentially a close plan, but that's just horrible terminology. Right. And it's, it's really something that we're co-creating with our client. This, these are the, the steps. This is the project plan essentially that is going to take us from where we are to not just, not just closure, but, but kickoff and, and successful implementation is typically the way that we're, we're thinking about that. I think it would be fascinating to layer on this idea of then sort of the joint story process. Like, what is… because man, if, if, if they can get bought into that, if they believe the story, if, if they were a co-author of that story and they're presenting that… because I think one of the, one of the really scary parts of sales, if you're leveraging a champion, is oftentimes you're relying on them to do your selling, and often to an executive.

1:27:50 Brandon Fluharty: That's absolutely right.

1:27:51 Scott Ingram: So scary. But if it's a story and they had a hand in writing that story, they're going to be able to get that passion you talked about earlier that's so, so important in all of this. Yeah.

1:28:01 Brandon Fluharty: And I'll give you a good anecdotal story about that. So I was able to win a deal last year, again, in good partnership with, with other key folks here inside LivePerson, but it was a top 25 quick service restaurant brand and not typically like the size that we would pursue in strategic accounts, but it was strategic in the sense that it would've been a first for, for us. And it was a sizable deal because it was a, it was a transformation for them. And this, this brand, unfortunately can't name them by name. We're, we're not ready for that yet, but everybody would know this brand. It's a brand that has a lot of momentum behind it. It's a really cool brand. And we did just what you said, like we enabled our champion. She was wonderful in the sense that we co-created the executive memo and the executive presentation that ultimately got the CEO to sign off on this 7-figure deal. We're actually, we're doing like a revenue share as a part of it. And, you know, so it's massive to our organization over the long term. And, you know, had I just kind of like brazenly like forged ahead and said, okay, you know, this is what you need to put in front of your C-suite when you meet with them, certainly not as effective as kind of giving her the abilities and seeing her in real time, like changing, you know, the flow because she knows she's meeting with her C-suite every week. She knows what's going to resonate and really kind of get the deal done. So one, we… to be able to get that respect and, and that, that trust, like, that's sort of step number one. But then to co-develop your, your presentation materials and, and that, that memo, that sort of that executive memo, that's, that's key. And it certainly helped us to win a much larger deal than, you know, we would have typically gotten for a brand of that size. So it, it does work.

1:30:04 Scott Ingram: Awesome. Great, great stuff. So is there something that you believe that the average sales rep would think is probably crazy?

1:30:14 Brandon Fluharty: Huh, is a great question. I think it kind of comes back to what we were talking about with energy. I think, yeah, I think it's kind of counterproductive. Like, that's definitely one piece in it. And it works into a broader thought process here. Around my philosophy on the power of saying no. But first, like kind of going back to the energy, I think, yes, let's not be afraid of like getting sleep. Like I think I remember the HBR article that you're talking about where, yeah, like the power of naps, which like would be ludicrous to think about, like taking a nap during the day, which again, I'm probably not the best person about it, but But I think it's important, like the, you know, the counterproductivity that we think we've got to hustle, hustle, hustle. We have to be in this workaholic mindset, especially for like startups in that startup environment. There's this, this constant workaholism that's permeating and it's leading to burnout and it's leading to reps churning, you know, after a year or 2. And I think it's unhealthy and I think it starts at the top. You know, we think that, you know, we have to be that entrepreneur, like that entrepreneur who's first to the office, last to leave. And these are the… this is what gets you. You got to work 12, 14, 18 hours a day, every day. It's just, it's not realistic. So I think that's one for a subset of sellers out there. I think that's something that, that might be a bit shocking or a bit different to think about. But it's important to manage your energy and your rest.

1:31:53 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

1:31:55 Brandon Fluharty: And then the other thing is at some point you're going to need to stop saying yes to every single lead and opportunity that comes your way. I think certainly starting out, go ahead and say yes to everything and just learn a bit by, by doing. Put yourself in the… throw yourself in the fire. Don't be afraid to fail. Fail quickly. I think that is a good, good mantra. And don't think that you have to get… be perfect. You have to learn everything about the product when you're certainly starting out at a new company. Just go ahead and have good business discussions and learn by doing. But then eventually you're going to win by being super focused on how you spend your time, kind of going back to some earlier themes that we were talking about. And it's going to be more of the nos that will be more impactful than the yeses. And I think we can't be afraid once we're established of letting go of a lead or letting go of an account, just let it go. And just, just focus on where, you know, you can make the maximum impact in as little time as possible and keep focusing on that and keep your time protected, you know, block off your schedule. Like it's, it's okay to say no. And it's, it's going to be the nos. That help you to, you know, surpass quota and achieve your personal goals and so forth. So those would be sort of like the 2 things that might be a bit different that, that not everybody's thinking about.

1:33:23 Scott Ingram: Yeah, love that. Well, since we're, we're in advice dispensing mode, what, what advice would you give to somebody that is just starting out in their sales career today? Maybe they're in their, their very first sales role and they want to progress into enterprise SaaS sales and make 7 figures?

1:33:40 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, I think it comes back to a lot of the things that we talked about. I think one is be a student of sales. Just know that there's no silver bullet, at least early on, that's going to help you, that you could just, you know, kind of be a robot and put your head down and just focus on that one way and it will lead you to a path to greener pastures. You're gonna have to put your own voice and thoughts and, you know, the way you operate your process into, into it. So just know that and, and leave your ego at the door. And, and one thing I have found, like, I, I feel like egos aren't there. I mean, I know I've, I've worked for, for startups and I've worked, you know, I'm not a millennial, I'm a little bit older and more Gen X. Millennials seem to get a bad rap, and I just, I have found that's not the case. I have found that millennials as a whole, at least from my experience in sales working with them, they're extremely motivated, they're extremely hard workers. And in fact, kind of goes back to the workaholism that I'm actually seeing as a pervasive threat in the startup space. That's more of a problem than not working as hard as people people should. And they're hungry for learning. And whereas I think maybe our generation, we've seen a lot of big egos, and like, if you have a big year, you kind of think like you're king or queen of your company, and you… everybody should be working for you. So I would say like, don't let the ego ever creep in if you're just starting out. Like, be hungry, be humble, be a student, Always be learning. And, you know, there's never perfection. Strive for perfection, but there is never perfection. So it's just gonna be a constant learning process. You know, keep, keep the ego, check that at the door and stay humble. Just always know that you're gonna rely on others within your organization, especially once you climb and you're pursuing these larger deals, you're gonna rely on others. And it's not just you putting your name behind that, that win. It's, you've gotta, you know, congratulate and give everybody kudos who, who was a part of that win. And yeah, I, I think starting out, just say yes to, to everything. And, and then eventually you gotta be strategic with your time and focused on, on what's gonna make the biggest impact. And again, the best way to know that And our currency in sales is, is what we generate from revenue. And then ultimately what comes in, in our pockets. So know your hourly rates, like how much, if you really broke it down, like how much do you make per hour? And it's a simple exercise. Just calculate your total earnings the previous year, divide that by the number of logged hours in your HR system. We know we probably work more hours than that in our own personal time. But just use that as your baseline and then that's your hourly rate. And it's like, how are you going to increase that hourly rate? And then work backwards from there of like, where are you gonna spend your time? And, and you wanna spend it wisely. So that, that would be the best advice that, that, that I can give holistically for anybody starting out.

1:37:01 Scott Ingram: And does that advice change or, or how would you augment that advice for somebody that is, you know, here we are at the, the beginning of the year. Maybe they're a little bit more seasoned. They, they either had, you know, they, they had a, a good year and, but they know that there is greatness ahead because they're still listening to us. Or, or maybe they just had a rough year, right? And, and either way, there's just a lot of room for improvement and they're, they're looking to take their game to the next level. What, what's your advice for them?

1:37:29 Brandon Fluharty: So yeah, I would say, you know, for the more seasoned salesperson, maybe if you're coming off a bad year or just kind of looking to reinvigorate 2020 and start off on the right foot, don't be afraid to get help and invest in yourself. Like, if you've got the resources, go ahead and double down on yourself personally. Again, going back to that theme of being an intrapreneur, being your own business owner within your company, you're going to need to invest in yourself. And it, like, I've gotten tremendous value out of working with coaches who've helped me think through scenarios that I just wouldn't have been able to work out myself. So, you know, coming to conferences like that you host, just getting other points of view from other sellers or those who, who have been there and done that either within your organization or outside of your organization, I think those are great ways to invest and spend your time because It'll come back to you eventually. So getting a coach, I think, is one of the best things that a senior salesperson can do.

1:38:33 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So again, if you're still listening to this now, now as we start to come up on, on 2 hours isn't too far in the distance. I don't think we'll quite get there. What's interesting is I've got some veteran listeners who they call me or they'll text me and they'll say they get super fired up anytime they see an episode that's north of 90 minutes because because they know it's just a pot of gold. I feel like this is definitely going to be one of those, and it certainly wasn't my intent, but I feel like this is, you know, an hour and 45-minute-long commercial for the summit, right? This is really, if you are, if you believe in this idea of being a student of sales and surrounding yourself with the best and learning from the best and just, it's an iterative process, then, you know, I really hope that you will take advantage of something, right? Join the listener list, go to top1.fm. We're going to have, again, a super rich set of notes here for this episode, tons of links, links to the articles that prompted this conversation that Brandon's written, and you can see how great his writing is. And then, you know, again, hopefully you'll come join us in Austin. Again, when you join the listener list, I'll send you the video of your choice, but if you sign up for the summit, I will send you all of the videos from last year's summit. There's just so much, so much goodness in there. So, Brandon, let's wrap this up. And I always like to, I mean, we've covered so much ground, but I like to try and make this as actionable as we possibly can. And I want you to issue a challenge that the person listening to this can take on over the course of, say, the next 2 weeks. So, so give them a manageable 2-week project, something they can do to improve themselves and improve their results.

1:40:15 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, I would say use writing as a new tool to succeed in 2020. And my challenge over the next 2 weeks for the listeners would be start with this, even if it's just one story, go back to your biggest win, whether that was last year or whenever it was in your career, write the success, the anatomy of that win as a story that would be compelling for anyone to read, a great fiction novel that would hook somebody in and be like, wow, I wanna keep reading this. And don't put a time limit on it. Just whatever it can be, as long or short as you feel it needs to be for yourself. But write the, the win as a chapter in your book. And that I hope will start to create a template for you. To start using it as future stories and memos that you can start crafting for the accounts that you wanna pursue. And then eventually an actionable document that you can work with your prospective client on closing the deal together. But start with that. What is the biggest win of your career? Can you write it out like a chapter in a book? That anyone would be excited to read in the next 2 weeks. That's my challenge, man.

1:41:43 Scott Ingram: That, that sounds like the beginnings of, of my next book.

1:41:46 Brandon Fluharty: No, I've got it.

1:41:47 Scott Ingram: I've got enough projects. But you know what? You were the king of great calls to actions because that's, that's 2 in, in one episode. And I will say, if you're willing and open, this, this is not part of the, the challenge, but if, if you want to go just one step further and share that story with me, and, you know, we'll talk about If you want to do anything with it, it can certainly be private and just say, hey, you know, Scott, the show inspired me, Brandon inspired me, and here's the story that I wrote, and we can just leave it at that, and that's totally fine. But, you know, maybe we start posting them on the blog, or if you do want to share those a little bit more publicly, we can talk about that because I think it's also one of the things that some people have come to this show with a misconception. Obviously, if you're still here, you've gotten over this. But they, they thought Sales Success Stories was about a specific deal or a specific part of a deal or a specific tactic and, and not the story of Brandon and, and all that he's done and, and, and really getting into the, in, into the depths. But these stories, what, what you've asked for, Brandon, I, I think is those. And again, if, if you're willing and open to, to doing that, and here's the thing, I, I hope that you'll do it, right? Podcasts… the challenge with podcasts, this is such a passive medium because I'm willing to bet that right now you are driving in your car and it would be illegal for you in many states to write something down or send a text or touch your phone in some cases. Or maybe you're at the gym or you're working out or you're running. This is just not a convenient time, but I want you to Ask Siri, ask Alexa, ask your Google, ask whatever voice thing you can to set a task for you or set a reminder so that when you're done with that activity, that you take this action and really take it seriously. Because again, like, talk is cheap. Like, this is all great stuff. It all sounds really wonderful. But if you don't try it, if you don't, if you don't take this last action, or if you don't… I'm going to work on, on drafting one of these memos. I mean, this is, this is a brilliant, brilliant idea, and I know it's going to help me. It doesn't count if you don't do it. So anyway, that's that's where we'll leave it, Brandon. This has been amazing. Thank you for all of your time, and look forward to hopefully seeing you here in Austin.

1:44:06 Brandon Fluharty: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much, Scott. This was tons of fun, and yeah, look forward to meeting you as well as your listeners in Austin at the Top One Summit. Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast. To be sure you never miss an episode. And for an invitation to our Sales Success Community powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter at top1.fm.