78: New School Selling with Old School Hustle - Vincent Matano

0:08 Scott Ingram: You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve. To learn more, visit us at top1.fm. Here's your host, Scott Ingram. This episode is brought to you thanks to the generous support of Vidyard GoVideo. If you're not already familiar with GoVideo, I'll tell you more about it in a few minutes, or you could just go to top1.fm/v where you can get started right away for free. Today on the Sales Success Stories podcast, my guest is Vincent Matano. Vincent is the top enterprise sales development rep at Demandbase and just received the Beast Award at the Sales Development Conference hosted by David Dulany for being the best sales development rep in 2019. And this isn't the first time he's won an award like that. Welcome to the show, Vincent.

1:02 Vincent Matano: Scott, thanks for having me. I'm, I'm real excited to get into this and I appreciate that nice tee-up.

1:06 Scott Ingram: Absolutely. Well, I love it when the folks I get to interview are already fans of the show, and I know that's the case with you. So let's kick this thing off like we always do with the top 3 things that you believe have contributed most to your success as an SDR.

1:20 Vincent Matano: Yeah, absolutely. I was trying to come up with the top 3 things and I couldn't really narrow them down to just 3. So I actually sent over 4 things that I think has set me apart from the rest of the competition really. So number one, I think is probably the most important thing, especially in sales, is find your why. So, you know, that's just finding that motivator, you know, sales is a rejection business. So we're going to be, we're getting a lot of nos. We're getting a lot of, you know, times the phone's getting hung up on you. It's important to remember like why you're doing these things, right? So that's how you get over those, those long humps. And then leverage social. I think that's a really important tool, both as a sales professional as well as just an overall professional building your brand, you know, getting creative and leveraging those different channels. So don't just stick to email, don't just stick to phone, you know, find out ways to send unique gifts, you know, use Twitter, send handwritten notes, things like that. And then lastly is grit, which is based off of Angela Lee Duckworth's TED Talk and book, which I've really found very interesting. And just, you know, I kind of use those core principles in my everyday life.

2:31 Scott Ingram: Beautiful. Well, we will come back and talk a little bit deeper into the interview about how you're leveraging social and how you are being creative and leveraging different channels. But what is your why?

2:43 Vincent Matano: Yeah, I mean, it can mean a lot of different things for me, you know, growing up, come from a blue-collar family. You know, dad had… my dad had small businesses in town and there was times that we were struggling and times where, you know, smallest things like I wish we went on more vacations. So little things like that I remember and I just want to, you know, have a better quality of life and give a better quality of life to future, you know, families and actually just go on vacations. I haven't went on my first plane since I was like 18 or 19. So now that I'm able to, you know, have my own income and stuff, I'm definitely traveling a lot more. So That's another motivator for me.

3:15 Scott Ingram: Beautiful. And then what is, what does the application of grit look like just in your day-to-day?

3:20 Vincent Matano: Yeah. When I think of grit, I know it's, it's not really what Angela Duckworth was saying, but when I think of grit, I think of that like old school hustle mentality, that roll up your sleeves, like go-getter. And I think that's a little bit lost in sales. So I try to remind myself of the grit of, you know, working extremely hard. You know, I think of like a door-to-door salesman. I don't know why. And You know, just thinking about that mentality and just having to keep continuing, continuing and not giving up is just what makes me, you know, be successful as a sales development rep. Beautiful.

3:52 Scott Ingram: Well, let's, let's contextualize this a little bit and just talk about the specifics of your role and what it is and then how you got to number 1.

4:00 Vincent Matano: Yeah. So I am an enterprise sales development rep here at Demandbase. So supporting account executives, identifying new business opportunities, qualifying accounts. Finding unique ways to prospect and grab the attention of my prospects, creating quality interactions between my sales reps, my account executives, and the prospects. I'm also supporting some customer accounts as well, some big names like PwC, IBM, Comcast, to name a few. So I get to experience a lot of different things here at Demandbase that I'm not sure a lot of SDRs and other organizations get to, you know, such as demoing the product and things like that. So the experience has been amazing so far.

4:41 Scott Ingram: Very cool. Now, before I ask Vincent to quantify his results for us, let me tell you just a bit more about Vidyard GoVideo. I'm gonna guess that you're finding that it's getting harder and harder to get people to reply to your cold emails. Vidyard GoVideo allows you to easily create, send, and track videos inside those emails to significantly increase your response rates. Just go to top1.fm/v and download the free Chrome plugin. From there, you'll be able to create a video of whatever's on your screen. You can even add a little selfie video to the screen or just go all the way with the full video starring yourself. Once you're done recording, you can just drop that into your emails. And the best part is that you'll get a browser notification anytime somebody watches one of your videos. You'll even be able to see how much of the video they watched. It's the ultimate in personalization and it's free. Click over to top1.fm/vreadit right now to get started. All right, Vincent, so put this all in perspective. You, you're, you're in beast mode. You're number 1, not, not just this year, but last year as well. Quantify your results for us. What does it actually take to be number 1?

5:51 Vincent Matano: Yeah, you know, I was so far in my time here at Demandbase, I was responsible for sourcing over $2.6 million in closed won business. You know, this, this year alone, just on the enterprise team, I was averaging 123% of new business opportunities and 113% of my pipeline quota. So just like I said, using leveraging social, finding unique ways to do that, I've been able to kind of maximize my potential here at Demandbase.

6:19 Scott Ingram: Awesome. And I hinted at it before, and I don't even know the details behind this, but you won a similar award for being the top SDR in 2018 as well. Talk, talk about that.

6:29 Vincent Matano: Yeah, that was for the Inside Sales Summit. That was an awesome award. It was for Top Sales Development Rep of 2018. And that was really important to me as well, because it is, it was where I just started Demandbase and I was overseeing a mid-market patch and, you know, just getting accustomed to the SDR life, you know, finding my groove and things started to click very fast. And that's when the award came in place. And then kind of looking back on that now, it was kind of, It was kind of eye-opening. You know, I really didn't even know what I was doing. I felt like at the time, but stuff was just working and clicking, but it pointed me in the right direction. Like, okay, you figure out what's working, you know, write that down, figure it out, keep doing what's working. And then, you know, it led me to be very consistent to win this award this year.

7:15 Scott Ingram: Yeah. I love the consistency piece and we are definitely going to talk about the working and the clicking, but let's go back to the beginning first and just talk about your origin. How did you get your start in sales?

7:26 Vincent Matano: Yeah.

7:26 Scott Ingram: So like I mentioned, you know, come from a blue-collar family.

7:30 Vincent Matano: My dad actually owned bicycle shops growing up and very sales-oriented there. But he told me when I was growing up, he told me, if you ever want to make money in life, you either get into sales or you open your own business. So I ended up in sales. I knew that from an early age that I wanted to get into sales. My first ever sales gig, I was, you know, like 19 years old and I was actually selling Verizon Communications door to door. So I was literally going door to door, the worst type of sales you can possibly do, getting doors slammed in my face. But it was the most like value I've ever got in any sort of job, just learning how people react to things, gauging different people's body language, being able to overcome objections, dealing with rejection, because I've never dealt with that much rejection in my entire life. And that was a huge stepping stone for me. And I take those skills that I learned going door to door, you know, years ago, and it's still relevant in my, in my brain today.

8:24 Scott Ingram: Yeah. It's interesting. I mean, I hear that a lot and I hear that from a lot of people that have had a lot of success, I think, from a foundational perspective, just getting that… maybe it's just an inoculation, right? It's going through that experience and realizing it basically can't get any worse than that. And again, you get such rapid real-time feedback in ways that's really hard to do any other way. I wonder if… is there anything that you would have done differently? I mean, knowing what you know now, would you have changed any of that, or would you have taken a different path at any point?

8:57 Vincent Matano: Yeah, I often think about that. I'm not really sure if I, if I have an answer for that, but I will say my case is a bit different. I feel like the normal story is, oh, well, I kind of just stumbled into sales, right? That's what everybody literally says on every podcast I ever listened to. I actually knew I wanted to get into sales from an early age, so I didn't really stumble into it. What I could have done better was maybe find the particular industry or vertical where I wanted to sell into. You know, and I think that starts at college. You know, I think colleges are really far behind in teaching the whole sales development industry. You know, I think I read a report, it was like 54% of college graduates actually enter into a sales role after college. And I know I can speak for my university, we barely had any sales courses. And definitely there's, you know, not many sales courses that are on sales development, you know, in the tech industry at all. So I would love to see a change in that. And I wish I knew about this industry while I was in college to make a change or voice my opinion on that.

9:55 Scott Ingram: Yeah. I think you bring up an interesting point though about learning about who you want to sell to, right? So perhaps if you're getting a degree and you want to sell technology, right, getting a degree in some type of more technical field and just understanding the day-to-day and the ins and outs and things like that could be, could be sort of interesting.

10:14 Vincent Matano: Absolutely.

10:15 Scott Ingram: So, you know, the show's called Sales Success Stories and I love great stories. Do you have a favorite story and whether you, you won the deal or won the appointment or lost and maybe something you learned from it?

10:28 Vincent Matano: Yeah, I actually have a story in mind and I guess it would be very humbling of me to share maybe a failure, what I learned from it, but I'm in sales. I like to talk about the wins. So I actually have a story in mind that I think would be very valuable to, to your listeners. There was one of our top accounts that we were trying to break into and it's been worked by previous SDRs. It's been worked by AEs. It was a very hard account to crack into due to their size of their marketing team is very small. I knew the contact. I was reaching out to him via email. You know, that wasn't really working. I was, you know, trying the phone. I was trying all these different channels and I was just really hitting a wall with this account. And I actually went on his LinkedIn. I went on his Twitter. I started, you know, looking at what I can leverage. And I actually found that he was a huge Gary Vaynerchuk fan, just like many of us all are. So I was thinking, how can I incorporate this in my outreach? You know, I tried literally everything. I think I I think I sent over 12 emails at this point. So I actually had a Gary Vee book that I've read in my, in my bedroom. So I just grabbed it, threw it in an envelope, wrote him a nice handwritten card and sent the book his way, just saying like, hey, I saw you're a Gary Vee fan, figured you'd find value, value from this book. Followed up via email. He got back to me. We set up the initial discovery. He wound up coming in for lunch the following day and that deal wound up closing for $94K. And The week after it closed, he actually emailed me and thanked me for the book. He let me know that we're launching with Demandbase within the week. And he actually had an extra ticket to a Gary Vaynerchuk wine event at the Ainsworth in New York. So I got to go there, got to meet Gary Vee, you know, talk to him a bit, told him how I got there. And that was just like an amazing experience. And that's definitely one of my favorite wins, getting to meet Gary Vee from just a sales outreach.

12:16 Scott Ingram: That's fantastic. You know, and, you know, I think there's a tendency to try and connect on things that where you're sort of trying to force the connection and it comes across as a little bit false. But obviously, you know, you share that passion around Gary Vee and his content and be able to connect on that sort of a genuine level, I think is really probably what made that breakthrough.

12:38 Vincent Matano: Yeah. And it wasn't just, you know, me sending that book and kind of just getting the first meeting. He actually like respected that and he thought it would be great for me to come to the event with him as well. So, you know, you can make a huge impact on the prospects and I think it's important not to just treat them like, oh, that's my prospect, right? You can get to a personal level with them very simply, just being yourself. So that was really eye-opening for me going forward. I was, you know, how can I replicate that same situation where it's not a sales encounter, right? It's more of a consultative, you know, let's talk about it sort of scenario. And that's something that I take with me, you know, on every call now.

13:16 Scott Ingram: So what does that look like on the every call?

13:19 Vincent Matano: Yeah, so I mean, again, it's not just using something that you find, throwing in the beginning, oh, I noticed you're a Michigan alumni. So anyway, this is what we do, right? That's like some false… you're just trying to connect with them and it doesn't really make any sense. I've seen that a lot too. So it's just about finding something that it connects with genuinely and maybe even tying it back to the product. My favorite thing to do is finding, you know, a blog article. Marketers always are putting out content, find an article that they wrote. Maybe it's talking about marketing and you can easily tie that in to something that you're offering. In our case, at least here at Demandbase, because we sell marketing software. But just, it's all about finding something that you can connect your outreach to, right? You're not just saying something random. And I think that's pretty powerful if you can do that.

14:03 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Great, great stuff. So you've accomplished a lot, right? You've, you've had a lot of success. You've had consistent success from an accomplishment perspective. What are you most proud of?

14:13 Vincent Matano: I'm definitely most proud of the recent award I just got at the Sales Development Summit by David Dulany out in San Francisco. I was actually awarded the best sales development rep, as you mentioned, and I'm really proud of that one just because the entire room was filled with sales development reps and to be awarded the best one, it was really just really humbling. You know, I actually really wanted that award. I thought I would be a good person for it. Sent the link around. I actually wrote David a little handwritten card and I figured you know, I want to treat every scenario kind of like how I prospect, right? I'm going to get personal. I'm going to maybe send different, use different channels. I actually wrote him a handwritten note just saying, hey David, excited to come. Here's 4 reasons why I should win. And I was just confident about it. And I'm really proud of that one.

14:58 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. That's awesome. And David is certainly a friend of the show. He's been a great source of… this one wasn't direct because oftentimes I will call David and say, hey, it's been a while since I've had an SDR on. Who's, who's just the best one that you've that you've come across. So that's how I found a couple of the interviews in the past. But now that he's got this award, I saw, I saw his post on LinkedIn. I was like, oh, this is a no-brainer. So yeah, it was, uh, it was fun to connect with, with you that way. So what about the flip side though? What, what has been the biggest challenge you face? Or maybe put us at a time that you found that you were kind of struggling and maybe not feeling like you were… it was clicking and hitting it on all cylinders.

15:33 Vincent Matano: Yeah, there's… I mean, in sales, I definitely, I struggle every day, but The most I struggled and the most I kind of felt out of place was actually when I first started here at Demandbase. I sort of had this like imposter syndrome where I was like, wow, these people are so smart. They know the product so well. They're so technical. They know so much about marketing and sales and they're using all this different technology in their day-to-day. And I honestly felt like I was kind of out of place. Took me a bit to kind of, you know, learn the day-to-day, learn what sticks best. But luckily here at Demandbase, they kind of give you free range and figure out what works for you. And if it works for you, keep doing what you're doing. They don't hold this like activity quota over your head where, you know, they're saying you need to do this, you know, X amount of dials per day. It's kind of like, hey, whatever works for you, we're just going to let you do it. If you're exceeding your quota month by month, we're going to let you keep doing what you're doing. So I thought that was really helpful for me just learning as a professional. But in the beginning, it was, it was definitely tough. Yeah.

16:33 Scott Ingram: So how did you, how did you get through? I mean, it sounds like a lot of it was you just had a good culture. You had a good supportive environment there, but how did you sort of break through and get to that point where you maybe developed the level of confidence that you didn't feel like you were underwater?

16:49 Vincent Matano: Yeah. Just, it's just about seeing what works and what doesn't work for you. I always say this, that sales is a copy and paste business. Take something from somebody. Put it into your own style, right? Maybe one particular person does something that you really like, but the rest of their style of selling that you don't like. Find that one thing, put it into your own, and this is how you create your own style of sales. And I think that's what I did. I was shadowing a lot of the members here at Demandbase. My manager, Kevin Rooney, is a beast, and he gives us free range to figure out what works, like I mentioned, and run with that. So I think that was really helpful for me where I was able to shadow all these different types of people, figure out one thing I liked from them and throw it into my own style. And that's something that helps me succeed in the role.

17:33 Scott Ingram: Man, that's, that is so good. I feel like that is basically the recipe, right? There's, there's not this ready-made, you know, color-by-numbers sort of process. You really have to develop your own. And I think that's, that's what you described. But I want to go back to something else that you said. You said that you struggle every day. Talk about that more and talk about just how you're getting through that. 'Cause I think that's, that's almost ubiquitous, right? We all, we, this is, this is a hard gig.

17:59 Vincent Matano: It's absolutely, it's not an easy gig. When I said I struggle every day, it's, it's more or less, you know, finding the time, right? There's a lot of stuff that gets thrown on your calendar in the morning. I have one, you know, idea of how my day is going to be structured. And then a lot of stuff gets thrown on my calendar. People come up to your desk, you get distracted, and it really just kind of takes away from your work. And then also reaching out to people, you know, hitting a wall with an account, that's probably the hardest thing to overcome. And as an SDR, I've run into that every single day where there's accounts that are such a great fit. You're so confident if you just get them live on the phone or if you get just, you know, 10 seconds of their time, you can explain the value that you can provide them. But you just can't get in front of them. And that's probably the most frustrating thing as a sales development rep or just in sales in general. But the way you overcome that is use different channels, you know, finding stuff about this prospect, right? So if you're prospecting somebody, search their name in Google, see what you can find about them. You know, nowadays everyone's doing speaking gigs, everyone's writing blogs, everybody's featured on a podcast. Find this stuff, try to leverage it. If email's not working, use phone. If phone's not working, use direct mail. If direct mail's not working, use social media. So there's a ton of different ways to get around an account. And I just have to remind myself that when I'm hitting a wall.

19:19 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's, that's great stuff. I mean, it's interesting to watch the podcast experience because I, you know, I sit on kind of all sides of this, right? I'll go on other shows. I have this show, all these other things. And I will tell you, it is less than 1% of listeners will reach out and connect with somebody that's been on the show. And man, everybody that's doing it, they crave it. They want that feedback. They want to hear, hey, you listened, what did you get out of it? Like, what, what were your takeaways and sort of being able to iterate there. So I think once you get to that, that level and again, it comes back to it's something personal and it's something about them. It's not about your product. It's just great, great stuff. So exactly, we're… I want to tear all this stuff apart. Why don't we start with just kind of the, the morning routine? And I know, you know, the drill on this, like I really like to walk through the full day in the life. So alarm goes off. What time did that happen? And literally blow by blow until your head hits the pillow.

20:17 Vincent Matano: Yeah, I am most definitely a morning bird over a night owl. I literally go to sleep at 9 PM. The alarm goes off 4:30 in the morning. I try to get to the gym by 5. Then I'm on the bus by 7 coming into New York City.

20:31 Scott Ingram: Wait, wait, what happens at the gym?

20:32 Vincent Matano: You know, try to get in at least a 40-minute workout, you know, very quickly. And then from there, you know, eat some breakfast really quickly, catch the bus by 7. And, you know, my commute is probably longer than most people. It's about 40 minutes. So while I have that downtime, I want to make sure I'm not just scrolling on Instagram or, you know, reading ridiculous tweets on the bus ride. So always listen to a podcast every single day on my commute into work, whether that's the Sales Success Stories podcast or whether it's something more light, whatever it is, I'm making sure I'm always listening to something on the commute in. And then, you know, once I'm in the office, that's when, uh, you know, I'm just prospecting very heavily, throw my headphones on, put it on some 50 Cent, get me motivated to go for the rest of the day and just trying to drive some, some quality meetings.

21:21 Scott Ingram: Awesome. So let's go back to just a couple of detail points and we'll put all of this in the show notes at top1.fm. Top 3 or 5, what are the most consistent podcasts that you listen to?

21:33 Vincent Matano: That's a great question. So the sales podcasts, the top 2 for me are the Sales Success Stories and Sales Development Podcast. Outside of sales, my absolute favorite podcast is the School of Greatness by Lewis Howes. I also like Ed Mylett Show as well as Impact Theory by Tom Bilyeu.

21:52 Scott Ingram: Beautiful. And then you mentioned 50 Cent, your favorite, like, get-going songs.

21:57 Vincent Matano: Oh my God. Literally just shuffle the Get Rich or Die Trying playlist. I actually have a whiteboard that sits on my desk and I changed the whiteboard to say Hit Quota or Die Trying. So like that, I literally just shuffle that and I'm like, I'm in the zone.

22:11 Scott Ingram: Awesome. So links, links to all of that over on top1.fm. I don't know the number. So if you do top1.fm top1summit.com/vincent-matano. That will get you there.

22:22 Vincent Matano: Everybody start listening to 50 Cent and you hit your quota.

22:26 Scott Ingram: Easy as that, man.

22:28 Vincent Matano: Easy as that.

22:29 Scott Ingram: So you took us through the morning, but then you stopped and then it just became about set meetings. How are you structuring the actual workday and trying to maybe avoid or mitigate some of the distractions that you mentioned earlier?

22:40 Vincent Matano: Yeah, I probably could do a better job at that. That's probably one of my weaknesses. I'm definitely not known to schedule my days, do block scheduling, have all this structure. You know, maybe that's a weakness. Maybe I should, you know, maybe improve upon that. I kind of just like to go in and just put my head down and work. But, you know, maybe that's something I can look into is, you know, block scheduling. And, you know, maybe that would help with, you know, allotting some times. I know I call, I usually make my phone calls towards the end of the day. So, you know, from, you know, the beginning to the middle, I'm pretty much just prospecting. And then the end of the day, I usually make my phone calls.

23:16 Scott Ingram: Gotcha. So let's, let's get into some of that detail now then. Why don't we start with, I mean, the second thing you mentioned was leveraging social was, was one of your top 4. So how specifically are you doing that?

23:28 Vincent Matano: So leveraging social is a few different ways, right? So one of the ways is obviously, you know, normal LinkedIn and doing that personal branding, sharing content. I've been trying to do a better job at sharing some rich content for, you know, the sales community that I'm connected with a bunch of salespeople on LinkedIn. That's one way to build your brand, right? But the way that I like to use it and the way that I think that it helped me out was I use social in terms of getting information from people. So when I'm doing my prospecting, love LinkedIn Sales Nav, I'm on there and I'm actually looking for things that I can personalize my email with. I'm also looking up their Twitter if they have one. Usually they have some stuff on there that's, you know, non-work related but still professional, right? So maybe they were featured, like I said, in a podcast, maybe they were in a keynote presentation, you know, maybe they were, you know, quoted in some company news, stuff like that will be on their Twitter. And that's like an absolute goldmine if someone's active on Twitter, one of your prospects. That's what I mean by leveraging social is looking up some stuff that would just stop you from sending a generic template email and actually doing some customization to it.

24:38 Scott Ingram: Gotcha. And then as you're kind of working through that day and you're prospecting, do you have, is there sort of a set number of, hey, today I'm focused on these 5 accounts. Or these 10 accounts, or what's sort of your process around, especially in the enterprise space, right? You're taking a more kind of measured approach. What does that look like?

24:57 Vincent Matano: Yeah, so now being in the enterprise space, it is a lower volume, just as you mentioned, it's a bit more strategic. It's a lot more prospecting that I have to do. So, you know, I'll meet up with my reps, you know, on Mondays that I support, and we'll kind of figure out what accounts I want to go after. I'll probably focus on around 10 accounts for the week and really put all my effort into that. Maybe my lower-tiered accounts that, you know, we're not putting as much effort into because maybe it's, you know, an okay fit or whatever. Maybe I'll send those, those templated emails out just to get some touches on them. But for my priority accounts, I'm probably focused on about 10 for the week and really, you know, take my time and be strategic about those.

25:39 Scott Ingram: Cool. And you hinted at this before and gave us a couple of ideas, but talk more about just how you're getting creative and leveraging different channels. I mean, what, what are those different channels? How are, how are you creatively using them?

25:50 Vincent Matano: Yeah. So I am an email-first sales development rep. I know that's very stereotypical nowadays. Everyone says sales reps are scared of the phone, not scared of the phone. I just think that emails, I've seen a lot of success with this. So I'm very heavy on email, but I don't just stick to email. I think that's where the part of getting creative is, you know, if email's not working, find a different channel, use phone, right? If phone's not working, find a different channel, send a gift. What I like to do is send a gift over with a nice handwritten note. And even if your company doesn't have a service that allows you to deliver gifts, a handwritten note goes a long way. And I found them being super, super effective just by writing a handwritten note referencing the same way you're customizing your email, throw that in a handwritten note. Note and it's guaranteed a response just because they're getting that. They're feeling the physical touch of the card. They're, they're, they're seeing that you took the time to not only research the company and themselves, but you're taking the time to actually handwrite a note, stamp it, and bring it to a post office. So those are just things that go a really long way. You know, leveraging video, doing Vidyards. There's a whole host of things that you can do to get creative. I would say the most creative thing that I've done was reaching out to one of my accounts, couldn't get in touch with one of the CMOs. I actually sent him a shoe in the mail and said, with a handwritten note, and said, hope this gets my foot in the door. Still didn't open my emails. So I was like, oh man, what do I do? So I actually created a Vidyard, tweeted it to him, and he got back to me via email and was like, love the idea, love the shoe. So it's all about just finding a way to break through all this intense noise and break through their email inbox to grab their attention.

27:35 Scott Ingram: Love, love that. And, you know, I think what's interesting is the things I sort of look for, and I'm hearing a lot of this in what you're doing, is especially in this day and age with the, with the channels that are overfull because of all of the automation and everything else, I like to look at what's something that like doesn't scale, right? And that's why I love like the personalized videos and the handwritten notes and, you know, shipping something type of gift and things like that. I want to totally peel back because you're, you're the first person in a long time I've talked to that's, that's doing handwritten notes. Just unpack that for us in terms of like super detail. What kind of card are you using? Are you worried about your handwriting? Because that's one of the biggest things I hear is, oh, but my handwriting sucks, right? Like just, I want to like super tear that into the ground.

28:26 Vincent Matano: So we have a bunch of Demandbase cards here at Demandbase, luckily, so I can just grab those. If not, you can literally order a thing of cards off Amazon for ridiculously cheap. I think I did that one time for Christmas. I think I ordered a bunch of Christmas cards to send to prospects. They're very cheap. If you get one opportunity off it, it pays for itself and plus more. Writing inside the note, I have the worst handwriting. I'm not even sure if my handwriting is legible, but just the fact that you're able to do this and send the card, it's just gonna… it's gonna go a long way, right? No one's gonna open the card and be like, wow, this guy's handwriting is awful, and close it, right? They're gonna be like, wow, that was really nice of this guy to send me a handwritten note. So it's, it's, it's about the principle of sending the item. And granted, sure, it's, it's not that scalable, but when you're going for a more strategic approach and you're confident that your product can help a particular individual or company, you're gonna take the time And do whatever it takes to get that meeting.

29:27 Scott Ingram: So the way that I think about it is just the the how many experience, right? So if you think about how many emails did you get today, right? And and that's probably an obscene number. That's at least dozens, possibly over over a hundred or or more. And then think about the last time that you got a handwritten note in the mail. And for me, obviously, I get tons of email. I can't tell you the name of the last person who who sent me an email, but I can tell you. That Davidson Heng sent me a handwritten note, and I'm trying to read the postmark on this because here's the other thing, the dang thing is still sitting on my desk. So Davidson listens to the show, he's coming out to the, to the summit, great guy, we've talked a couple of times. This note, I'm pretty sure this says May, and we're recording this the beginning of September. So, you know, I think that's, that's the impact. And, you know, lots of people who listen to the show send me emails, I don't necessarily remember their names. So, you know, I think it's just…

30:27 Vincent Matano: it's…

30:27 Scott Ingram: I really wanted to harp on this because I think it is so incredibly powerful. And it's just one of those things that, yeah, it takes a little bit of extra effort. And maybe your handwriting sucks. Who freaking cares? You know, get on with it because it works.

30:41 Vincent Matano: That's right. And I think it's best not to just send the note, obviously, but to follow up via email, follow up via phone, And that's what really is going to make that pop. Right. So if I sent you a handwritten note and then I sent you an email saying, did you get my handwritten note? Chances are you're probably going to open that email because you've gotten the handwritten note. You know what I mean? So it's just, it's all about pairing those 2 things as well and not just sticking to one channel.

31:05 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. So we've already talked about your information diet. What about the tools and apps that are just in your day-to-day life? Like what can't you live without? We already talked about LinkedIn Sales Nav. Like it's a requirement. You have to mention LinkedIn on this show. I need to bring them on as a sponsor cuz it's ridiculous.

31:21 Vincent Matano: Yeah. All that free advertising. No, I think not to, I know you said don't say LinkedIn, but LinkedIn Sales Nav is just, is incredible. Like the things you can do with that. That's my bread and butter. Like I probably don't even need all the other tools that we have. Yeah, they're great. But LinkedIn Sales Nav is, is just super powerful. You know, we use things like SalesLoft for, you know, email cadences. We use, you know, Vidyard. I actually use Twitter as a prospecting tool, which is a bit not normal, I would say. And then obviously Spotify, you got to have that 50-cent plan. Love it.

31:55 Scott Ingram: Love it. Is there an element of LinkedIn Sales Navigator that you're using that maybe the most important valuable piece of that solution?

32:05 Vincent Matano: Yeah, there is actually. So I actually gave some trainings on this internally here at Demandbase. There's a lot of different things you can use for it. Which the average, I would say, SDR maybe is not using, maybe they are using. There's things called lead shares, account shares. So when you're saving accounts, right, the good thing about it for an SDR is you can save it individually by rep and you can create multiple lists for however many reps you have. From there, you can save your leads into specific groups and then you can also filter a timeline. So similar to your regular LinkedIn timeline, but that's only The timeline is only showing shares from your leads. So you want to talk about personalizing an email. You have the entire timeline from all your accounts with all the activity they're doing on LinkedIn. And you can pull literally anything that they're posting. Maybe they shared an article, maybe they're sharing company news, whatever it is, you can pull that from the timeline and personalize your outreach. If your prospects are not active on LinkedIn, no issue at all. You can also filter it by account news. So maybe you can filter it all by your saved accounts and all the news that's going on that's relative to that account and personalize the email that way, which I found also just as effective.

33:17 Scott Ingram: Awesome. Great, great, great tip. And you've got my wheels turning because I actually… that might solve some issues that I have with, you know, the feed can just get a little bit noisy, right? So even creating a list of just the most important people in your network and being able to keep on top of what they're doing that might get lost in just the, the mass of what else is going on in the feed more generally.

33:40 Vincent Matano: That's right.

33:41 Scott Ingram: So Vincent, do you subscribe to a particular sales philosophy?

33:45 Vincent Matano: So I, you know, I've read The Challenger Sale. It was actually gifted to me by our VP of Sales Development, Jay Tule. I really did do like that book. But like I said, I just think sales is just a copy and paste business where you're grabbing different things, you're seeing what you like, what you don't I actually describe my style of sales as new school selling with an old school hustle. So it's kind of, you know, using all these modern ways of grabbing attention, but also having that hustle mentality of, you know, being persistent and doing it with passion that those old school sales reps were known to have. Right. So I'm not really sure if I subscribe to one particular one. I like to kind of grab things from a ton of other styles of selling.

34:26 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. I think we just came up with the title of the episode. That's a, that's a great, great tagline. Are there other elements that we haven't already talked about that you sort of think of that fit into that like new school selling philosophy?

34:40 Vincent Matano: So I think new school selling is, you know, is more of a quality over quantity type of sale where you're getting very personal with the prospect. You think about the old school sale where it's super high volume, you're pounding the phones or, you know, even door to door, you're going to thousands of doors, right? So I think that's obviously outdated, right? The high volume, the places that are still preaching about high volumes and activity quotas are, I just, I don't understand the thought process behind that. The new modern way of sales, I believe, is finding different things that you can connect with, with your prospects. Like I mentioned, using these different channels, using all these tools that we have available to us, like why not use all this stuff that we have, right? There's so much technology that we can leverage to get in front of somebody you're trying to speak with. And I honestly believe in today's age, Like you can get a meeting with anybody, right? There's a lot of stuff you can find on people that you can, you know, work within your outreach. Company news is public. If you work enterprise, you can read their financials, leverage that stuff. And then it's also about tying that into your value proposition. So you're not just saying something random, you're tying that into your value prop. You're not making a ridiculous video about nothing and sending them to them via email, right? I know I know a lot of SDRs are doing that now. To me, that doesn't make much sense, but it's about finding something that they can relate to, tying it into your value prop and getting it to them in a manner which, which, where they're available on.

36:08 Scott Ingram: Very cool. Very cool. So we've talked about Spotify and 50 Cent. I want to talk just a little bit more about motivation. Like what, what motivates you beyond that? And how do you just keep yourself like at that level of performance?

36:23 Vincent Matano: Yeah, that's a really great question. For me, I'm very competitive, always been competitive, grew up playing sports. So, you know, personally, I just always wanted to try to find a way to be the best and, you know, beat out others. But going a little deeper, it's, it's that whole, you know, thing of having a better quality of life, you know, taking vacations. That's like a huge thing. I don't know why I'm always thinking about like, oh, you know, where can I go next? Then that's a big motivating factor of hitting my quota, having, having this, you know, extra income coming in to maybe take a nicer trip or do something like that. Take advantage of opportunities. That's a huge thing for me. So the more opportunities come with the more success you have in a role. And I think that's really what drives me to, you know, be my best.

37:09 Scott Ingram: Awesome. Very, very cool. So is there something you believe that the average SDR would think is crazy?

37:15 Vincent Matano: Yeah, definitely the use of Twitter. Like I said, I use Twitter as a prospecting tool and I know a lot of people are against that and I can see why. But I use Twitter to not only grab information from to craft in my outreach, but I actually tweet at prospects. I actually use it as like a voicemail where I'll tweet them a light thing saying, you know, I would reach out. If it's a video I sent them, I'll say, hey, I just sent you a video on XYZ. Let me know what you think. Think. Something simple as that. If I ever sent them a gift, I'd say, hey, I just sent you this. Let me know if you got it. Simple things like that I drop on Twitter. I've gotten a handful of meetings off of Twitter. I've also gotten blocked on Twitter. I've also gotten, you know, not answered on Twitter, but that's just the name of the game. You know, you get email opt-outs, you get people hanging up on you on the phone. I think Twitter is a great tool because it's a social platform, but at the same time it is professional, but not as professional as LinkedIn And not way too personal like an Instagram. Like you definitely want to stay off of that.

38:12 Scott Ingram: Well, that's an interesting idea because I feel I mean I've been on Twitter for a super long time and I have just personally found that the diminish the value has diminished massively. Just I feel like everybody sends stuff out but nobody reads it anymore. But because of that, I mean it sounds like you're using it away. It's it's also it's again one of these kind of forgotten channels. Like people just aren't aren't there anymore. And, and most of us still have it set up where I'm gonna get an email or some type of notification if I get mentioned or if I get a direct message. Well, direct messages suck, but, you know, if I get mentioned or things like that, that, that makes sense, right? So, you know, again, I, I love, I love this theme of you've just got to try stuff and find things that, that work for you. And, you know, nothing works 100% of the time, right? Instead of just going broad and, and sort of being diversified in your approach. What about the flip side? Is there something that the average SDR believes that you think is crazy?

39:08 Vincent Matano: I don't know about the average SDR, but maybe we can kind of change that to, you know, SDR management. Like I said, the… I just don't understand the activity quotas. I understand, you know, in terms of forecasting, but I know there's a lot of people… I have a lot of friends who are, you know, sales development reps where if they don't hit their daily activity quota, they, you know, they'll get brought in the room and asked reasons why. I just think, to me, I just think that's insane that they have this high volume of calls. Like I said, in this new day of selling, it's not about how many calls you can make. Granted, it is a numbers game, but at the same time, you have to be strategic about it because there's so many studies about how with the lack of personalization, you're not going to get the answers. I don't see people exceeding quota just sending out emails because you can easily get replaced. Marketing automation, what have you. If volume is the game, then then you're easily replaceable.

40:01 Scott Ingram: Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh! That's that's that's so good. I mean, I think in a lot of ways it shows I don't know lack lack of confidence from from a leader, right? Or or lack of trust even, right? Like hey, look, I I expect you to go figure this out because I've seen lots of stories where hey, the top performing SDR isn't hitting their activity metrics and we're going to punish them. Like are you what? How does that make any sense? Like why are we not focused on? On the result. Like, yes, we have to have the right inputs, but again, if, if your conversion ratio… and, and Ryan O'Hara at LeadIQ has done some incredible… I can't remember what he calls it. He, he has like this whole metric system that, that he uses to describe, and it's, it's basically all about efficiency, right? Like, who cares if you make 100 dials and you get 1 meeting if there's somebody else who can, who can make 20 calls to get a Right? Like, the activity means nothing. It's, it's all about the efficiency and the conversion rates and things like that. So I will find… I'm gonna have to ping Ryan to find that, but we'll get that included in the show notes as well because it's a really good, I think, much more appropriate barometer and way to measure, again, getting away from activity and moving much closer to results. But you still use the activity as an input. So I'll sync up with Ryan, we'll put those in the show notes at top1.fm. So Vincent, what have been the most important decisions you've made or lessons you've learned to get where you are today?

41:26 Vincent Matano: I think the most important thing or the lessons that I learned to help me get where I am today is definitely just being yourself, right? Putting your needs first because, you know, as sales reps, we're working on individual quotas, right? We need to put our interests first, whatever is going to get to our quota first. Should come first, right? And I think especially as sales development reps, we can get stuck in this situation where, you know, maybe an account executive is asking for a little bit too much, right? Maybe there's account executives that think SDRs are their personal assistants. Scenarios like that where you're getting away from activities that are going to get you to your goal, you just have to actually, you know, stand up and say, listen, you know, this is how I'm getting paid out on. I need to make sure I'm doing XYZ on a daily basis. And if I actually do this other thing that, you know, I'm asked on, and it's okay, I don't mind helping, but just know that, you know, there's certain things that I need to get done in my day for me to hit my goal. And I think a lot of SDRs need to have that conversation. And I think that's really helped me out a lot is finding my individual goals, figuring out what I need to do on my day-to-day basis. And if something comes in between that, just being super transparent with the person that's on the other end of that and just saying, hey, listen, Let me get XYZ done first because that's what's going to get me closer to my goal. And then I'll be more than happy to assist in any other way that I can.

42:49 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's great. I love, I love the way you're setting that boundary. So one of the things that I've heard from a couple of listeners of the podcast have reached out with, with kind of a combination of questions. And it's all about this, this area between, call it late-stage SDR and AE. And they're interested in people who've made that transition. Well, and they're interested in folks that are in your position where you've you've had a long track record of success in this role. How are you thinking about where you go from here?

43:21 Vincent Matano: Yeah, no, that's a that's a great question, and it's pretty relevant right now because I am in that stage where you know I am looking for you know what's next, right? For me, I want to move into that account executive role just because I actually love prospecting, and I think it'd be super powerful. If an account executive can come in with the ability to prospect like a sales development rep and then combine that with, you know, the ability to talk to a client on the phone, which you'll learn as an account executive, I think that'll make for a powerful individual. But I think the steps that, that I'm taking to try to get into that scenario is just, you know, telling people what you want, right? Like I said, being open about it, you know, I'm trying to have those, you know, conversations internally and just reaching out to different people, asking them for their advice. How should I go about asking for this? And it's maybe not even an ask. Maybe you're just letting the person know, hey, I'm interested, right? What do I need to do to get to that next level and figure out what that is and start implementing that within your day-to-day? And, you know, I'm at that point where I'm having the conversations and trying to navigate to that point. And it's all about… that's all it's about is just having the conversations, being transparent.

44:33 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's great. So just continuing along, I mean, that's, that's kind of advice to yourself, right?

44:38 Vincent Matano: Totally.

44:39 Scott Ingram: Totally makes sense. I'm curious about what advice you would give to somebody that's just starting out in their sales career today.

44:47 Vincent Matano: I would say shadow as many people as you can when you first start off. Shadow everybody, like literally just shadow everybody. The product knowledge will come. The sales skills are really important because that's gonna be a great foundation for you. But the product knowledge, you can always learn, you know, you're gonna move companies, you're gonna learn a new product. You're gonna, your company you're at may launch new products. So you're always learning about the product, right? But the sales skills that you gain in the beginning when you first start out are just so important to your foundation. So just literally shadow everybody, shadow new SDRs, shadow, you know, tenured SDRs, shadow AEs, shadow strategic AEs, sales engineers, shadow literally everybody. Figure out what they're doing that's, that you like and that you can see yourself actually implementing, write it down, put it in a Google Doc, whatever it is, and start using that within your artillery, right? Start using that stuff. Finding what you like and just running with it. Don't, you know, just because one particular person is good at a certain style of sales and it feels uncomfortable to you, don't start doing what they're doing, right? Figure out what's comfortable to you. Maybe take bits and pieces for that. And then also, like I mentioned, put yourself first. So do the activities you need to do to hit your quota and exceed that. Because at the end of the day, if you're not hitting your quota, but you're helping everybody else and your quota is not hit, you know, that's not a good sign. Yeah.

46:08 Scott Ingram: What now? What about for somebody there that's a little further in? Maybe they've been in that SDR seat for some number of months, but they're just, they're not finding success yet. What would you tell them?

46:18 Vincent Matano: Honestly, I'll probably tell them the same thing. Whatever they're doing is not working. Maybe it's not something that they're comfortable in doing and they just kept doing it because that's what, you know, they had a training session on and they're trying to just keep doing with that, but it's just not working. Talk to somebody new, see what they're doing, find the person that's killing it and just talk to him, talk to her. Hey, what are you doing? What are you doing differently that I'm not doing? And I think on that same topic, what I actually wanted to talk about too was not just SDRs, but I think a seasoned account executive can learn a lot from an SDR, also vice versa, obviously. But this, this age, this new age of selling, I think an account executive can really learn a lot if they pick the brain of an SDR, sit with them for a little bit. Hey, how do you prospect? You know, how are you getting these meetings? How are you capturing attention? And they can learn a lot about prospecting and getting those first meetings. And if you're an account executive and you have that ability to do that, you can essentially hit your quota on your own and then whatever the SDR is sending you, that's separate, is just kind of icing on the cake. So that's kind of my mentality as I want to move to that next role is if I had that prospecting ability as an SDR, you can capture a ton of stuff. And then that old school sales where you're a beast on the phone and you can just close anything, negotiate, ask for that next steps. If you combine that with the ability to prospect, I mean, I mean, I feel like you'd just be unstoppable.

47:43 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So such good stuff. And that's why I feel like these interviews, these conversations with SDRs like yourself are so important because regardless of role, man, if you're not doing prospecting or you're not, you don't have that skillset anymore, or it's gotten stale and it's not working. Cause I feel like it has gotten harder in some ways. It's gotten easier. Right. Because, because to your point, it's so much easier to learn about people and what they're doing because we're all more, more public about these things and it's easier to find. But at the same time, there's just so much pollution in a lot of these channels, it's harder to break through. So it's just, it's great to get that perspective from people that are, you know, all day, every day, all I do is prospect and I get meetings. You're gonna be better at this than I am because that's not what I do all day, every day. And I know that I can learn from, from what you're doing.

48:37 Vincent Matano: Yeah. I think that would be so powerful and then vice versa too. You know, if an SDR can just meet with an AE and see how they're doing these calls that are really far down the sales cycle, because, you know, the normal SDR probably doesn't get to sit on those calls, but if you just ask and reach out to the top AE and just say, hey, you mind if I sit on this call with you? I just really want to see how you navigate this call. You know, I've done that before and it's just so eye-opening. I mean, you know, the reps are just so confident on the phone and navigating through this sales process and they just know it like the back of their hand. And it's just great to combine the two and see where the two actually spend most of their time. And just if you can just combine those two.

49:15 Scott Ingram: Wow. Yeah, absolutely. So let's talk about what would you want to know about top sellers in other organizations?

49:23 Vincent Matano: I would like to know what they're doing that I'm not, because I feel like I get into a little groove of, wow, you know, this is really working for me and you stick with what you know. And at times that's good because that allows for consistent results. But at the same time, I wonder, can I be doing better? Right? So it's about finding what I know and what I like. And I would love to just pick the brain of someone else that's doing even better than me. And I'm sure there's thousands of others that are doing much better. I would love to pick their brain and see, you know, what are you doing that I'm not, that I can copy and paste and put into my day-to-day day. Do I know what that is? No, I don't know what that main difference is, but I would love to just pick the brain of them. And that's why I love going to these sales development conferences and these marketing conferences. I just network and just network and I really just ask questions. So having conversations just about, hey, what do you do? What works for you? Why are you successful? And that's why you listen to this podcast, right? I mean, that's the whole reason why I started listening to this podcast. I'm like, all right, what's everybody else doing? That they seem to be crushing it. What can I take? What can I try today that I just grabbed from the podcast and try it out and see if it works?

50:33 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and for me, it's a never-ending adventure of trying to find that. So if that's you, right, if you're number one or you're in that top 1% in your organization or your peer is right, the person you work with, they are just, they're killing it. They're doing something unique and creative and inspiring that we can all learn from. Man, make that intro. I'm here. I respond to every email that I get. I think I can say that confidently. Maybe not right away, but I do my best to do that because I love hearing from you guys. I love those intros. You can always reach me. Scott at top one dot fm is the best channel. Just make sure you use the number one because you can you can get to the website if you type out one, but it doesn't work so good on the on the email. So Vincent, we've covered a lot of ground. This has been amazing. I've really really enjoyed our conversation. Is there anything that we haven't? Talked about yet that you were hoping to touch on or that you think would be a great kind of parting piece of knowledge?

51:30 Vincent Matano: Yes, actually there's one thing that I kind of wanna like leave with, you know, whoever's listening to this, whether it's an SDR or an AE or anybody that's just trying to get in front of somebody. When I formulate my outreach, there's 3 things that it's kind of like a checklist that I need to have within my outreach that will to me, always invoke a response. And that is personal info. Second one is company news. And the last one is CRM data. So in my head, I am mentally checkboxing those things as I find them and as I insert them within my outreach. And then once you can find all 3, obviously tying those into your product offering, like I mentioned, that's probably the most important thing. But personal info doesn't mean some creepy thing you found about them. Like I mentioned, A million times. There's people that are in podcasts. There's people that are putting out content. Find that stuff. Start off with that. Next, tie in some company news, right? Easy as Google searching the company or looking on LinkedIn about any company news. Maybe there was a new merger. Maybe a new acquisition. Maybe they just released a new product. Maybe there's new funding, new partnership. There's thousands of different ways to leverage that in there. And then lastly, leverage your CRM data. So you can say, hey, I noticed that you had spoke with my team member, you know, Jonathan in the past, you know, regarding XYZ. I know timing was a bit off. Assuming you're starting your 2020 planning, would love to continue the conversation around XYZ. Tie it in with your product offering. And that's it. I mean, those are the 3 main things that you have to include within your outreach. The more you can include, if you can get all 3, it's an incredible outreach. You know, if you can get 2 out of 3, it's still good. Good. If you can get 1 out of 3, it's still good. But if you can get all 3, you know, that, that's going to invoke a response.

53:15 Scott Ingram: Beautiful, beautiful. Well, we always try and wrap up and, and end on something actionable. I think that's already actionable, but if, if you were to issue a challenge… so the person listening to this, they're on the bus, they're almost to work, and, and there's something that they can do between now and, and the next time I release an interview in 2 What would, what would you challenge them to do to improve themselves and improve their results?

53:39 Vincent Matano: So there's actually 2 challenges that I'd like to do. One for an SDR, and that's find out what accounts you're hitting a wall with, right? Ask yourself, are you doing everything possible to get a response from that account? Are you sending personalized notes? Are you including the personal info, company news, and CRM data? You know, are you using social media? Are you using Twitter, LinkedIn? Are you sending direct mail? Are you sending you know, handwritten notes? All these things you should be asking yourself. And if you're not doing all these things, then the account's still alive. You should be continuing to go after it, asking for referrals, doing different things, looping in your account executive to get a response. And then the other challenge that I have is actually for the account executive. Like I mentioned earlier, sit down with the top performing SDR, just 30 minutes, 15 minutes, whatever it is. Sit down with that top performing SDR at your company. And ask him or her how they're prospecting and how they're actually able to get meetings. Because I feel like if you can learn that skill, that would be incredible. And vice versa with the SDR as well.

54:41 Scott Ingram: Beautiful. And, you know, I think those relationships are so important, right? It's, it's a pay-it-forward type of thing, right? You're… what I have always found is, and I've benefited a ton from having great mentors in, in my life, but I actually find that that I probably get more value out of mentoring other folks. You know, hopefully I'm helping them and hopefully they're getting something out of that interaction, but so frequently I'm learning things from them. They probably don't realize it, right? It's kind of an unintentional sort of side effect of that type of relationship, but everybody wins. There's so much value in that. Unfortunately, because Vincent just came back from the Sales Development Conference, asking him to come out to the Sales Success Summit less and 2 months later just wasn't going to fly with, with his leadership, unfortunately. So you'll have to come see him in 2020. But in the meantime, we are getting super duper close to that summit. So if, if there are still seats left, I guess I have to preface that at this point, as we release this episode in early October, it'll be October 14th and 15th in Austin. We are good. That's what this whole 2 days is. Is just those conversations where we're going to learn from the best of the best. We're going to dig really deep into what they're doing and what's working. And you'll certainly see a lot of that in the presentations. But more importantly, you'll build the relationships so that you have a place to go that you can continue to learn and continue to grow, continue to develop, have that network, create new opportunities for yourself in the future and the growth of your career. Anyway, off the soapbox, I'm so, so excited about this event. Top1summit.com is the place to go to find out more. There's also, I may have announced some, some additional details at this point. I don't know for sure. Either way, make sure you're either on that list or the listener list. They basically get you the same content for the most part, whether you go to top1.fm or you go to top1summit.com, make sure you're getting those emails because there is some additional stuff coming out around the summit that I'm super excited to share with you. That I may not be announcing yet on the podcast. We'll see how all of that works out. That's that's the only issue with with recording these things a month before they they release. So anyway, Vincent, this has been really really incredible. I got a ton of value out of this. I have to believe that those listening, especially if they're still around, I guess the folks that weren't getting value, they probably already left us. If if you're still around, help Vincent grow his network. I know you're you're big on onto LinkedIn. Reach out, connect. Just do us both a favor when you do those things. Say that you heard him on the podcast. You know, mention mention this. Conversation, share something specific that you got out of it that was a personal takeaway for you. That adds so much value, is such a great way to begin not just a random connection but begin a real conversation and a real relationship. So we'll have links to everything at top1.fm/vincent-matano or top1.fm/whatever the heck episode number this is. Thanks for listening, and we will be be back with you next week with more great stuff. Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast. To be sure you never miss an episode and for an invitation to our Sales Success Community powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter at top1.fm.