76: Stepping Outside Your Comfort Zone with Jay Small

0:08 Scott Ingram: You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve. To learn more, visit us at top1.fm. Here's your host, Scott Ingram. This episode is brought to you thanks to the generous support of Vidyard GoVideo. To learn more and get started for free, just click over to top1 Today on the Sales Success Stories podcast, my guest is Jay Small from Cinch IT. Now, Jay has a really interesting story, and if the name Cinch IT sounds familiar, it's because back in episode 57, I interviewed Jack Wilson, who was Jay's boss. Now, it's worth noting here that I have a very strict set of rules for who I interview on this show, and I realize I don't talk about those rules enough because it means that every sales professional I interview on this show is truly the best of the best. The rule for my guests is that they must be an active individual contributor who is either the number one top performer on their team or at least in the top 1% of performers on a very large sales team. So, I bent the rules ever so slightly for Jack, who before joining Cinch IT to lead their sales organization was a consistent top 1% performer at Citizens Bank. Obviously, we'll deep dive into Jay's story here in a minute. But what makes this so interesting is that Jay was the number one seller at Cinch IT and recently bought his own franchise of the company. So, as I've been exploring various career paths through sales, this one is particularly intriguing, and we'll be talking about that today. So, with all that said, welcome to the show, Jay.

1:53 Jay Small: Thanks, Scott. It's really an honor to be here. I listen to your show all the time, so it's almost surreal to be on here now.

1:59 Scott Ingram: Very fun. Very fun. Well, we're gonna have a great conversation. And we'll talk through all the normal stuff like we, like we normally do. But again, really eager to dig into this idea of the transition from top sales performer to now franchise owner and a franchise that, that is the company that you were selling. So I imagine that's kind of an easier transition. But let's kick things off like we always do. And I'll have you talk about the top 3 things that you believe have been the biggest contributors to your success.

2:27 Jay Small: Sure. So just to lay out the top 3 for me, it would be my mentors, personal development, and then consistency. So to kind of dive into those a little bit, mentor-wise, I'm very lucky to be surrounded by great people. So ever since I was a kid growing up, my parents and my family were very supportive, never really questioned my path or where I was going or what I was deciding to do. So I remember even back when I was in grade school, always feeling pressure to get good grades, but never feeling threatened, like if I missed grades, I'd be in trouble or something like that. But still, I just never wanted to disappoint anybody because I did have such a solid support system. So it really pushed me to do the best that I could. And then going to college for engineering actually, and deciding to take a sales role after college, a lot of people would have gotten, you know, some flak from their family for that, I think, pushing back, why'd we spend money on college? Why'd we do this? But for me, there's been nothing but support the whole way. Luckily, that's transitioned into my professional career as well. So I've had great bosses, great sales mentors over the years. Everywhere back from my first job out of college at Citizens Bank to a compounding pharmacy that I was doing sales and marketing for, to Liberty Mutual Insurance where I had a great, great sales leader there, to Cinch IT where I met Jack, or at least got to work for Jack. I actually had known Jack for a couple of years before that from the Citizens Bank days. I was kind of on my way out as he was on his way in over there. But, you know, just getting to work with him and learning from him has really been an honor as well. So I definitely can't credit my mentors enough for all that they've done for me. The second one, personal development. I really became obsessed with personal development right around the time I was getting ready to graduate from college. So it's actually very interesting. I was approached by some people in a network marketing company, which network marketing gets kind of a bad reputation. And a lot of people hate on network marketing, which rightfully so in some cases. There is definitely a little bit of a cult mentality. There's some people that some pyramid schemes out there and things like that. But with the people that I met with this company that approached me, they really were focused on personal development. I mean, the first thing that these people started talking about were, listen to books, listen to Jim Rohn, listen to Think and Grow Rich, some of those classic novels. And it really shifted my thinking completely. I'd never really thought of personal development in that sense before that. Obviously, you go to school, you learn things. But to better myself on my own time by listening to some of these people that had already been super successful really just shifted my whole mindset around what was possible and what it takes to actually be consistently bettering yourself every day. So it really was a turning point for me. And ever since then, I've listened to audiobooks and podcasts every chance that I get. So anytime I'm driving, instead of listening to the radio, I've got Audible on or I've got a podcast. On. Anytime I'm at the gym, I'm listening to podcasts or audiobooks. So it really has kind of shifted me in a big sense, and I can't credit that enough either. And then last, none of this stuff would be possible without consistency. It really is key. And I think to have consistency, you need to have drive and you need to have motivation because it's not easy to be putting in the work day after day after day. And that's really what it takes for all of this stuff to start to compound and for you to start to see results. So like anything, I mean, going to the gym, if you go to the gym for 2 or 3 weeks and work really hard at the gym for 2 or 3 weeks, you may not notice a huge change, especially if you're really out of shape or something like that. But if you stay with that for a couple of months now, those are where you start to see those big changes. And I think that your professional career is the same exact way, and sales is the same exact way. We all have to be prospecting every single day and doing enough every single day so that it compounds and generates that activity that we're looking for and generates those results that we're looking for. So that's really the top 3 things that I would credit my success to nowadays.

6:52 Scott Ingram: Awesome. Well, I know we'll circle back and dig deeper on probably all of those over the course of the conversation, but talk about just your role there at Cinch IT and how you got to number 1.

7:03 Jay Small: Yeah. So Cinch IT, I started with that organization the beginning of July of 2018, actually. So a little over a year ago, I was just starting out in the IT industry and it was a complete industry switch for me. So I had been working at Liberty Mutual Insurance for 4 years prior to that selling insurance. Really had nothing to do with IT, but as I mentioned before, I did have an engineering background, so technology's always been a huge interest of mine. So when I started at Cinch IT, I really just dove in headfirst and wanted to learn as much as I could about what we were offering to people and how we could improve businesses, really. That's what we're doing at the end of the day, is going out there and taking these organizations from one point where, in a lot of cases, their IT is really a mess and and it's really non-compliant, they're struggling with day-to-day issues, things like that, and really taking them to the next level where their technology is moving them forward and not holding them back. So at Cinch IT, we have a relatively small sales team over there, or we did when I started over there, with 4 people on the sales team being managed by Jack. So before the last couple of years, Cinch IT really had just been working off organic growth, and there was really just one person doing the sales over there. And then they decided to really put a focus in on getting those results and really increasing revenues. So they started hiring some salespeople. And luckily, you know, I found the opportunity there to become one of those salespeople. So I started actually selling in August. So I had about a 30-day ramp-up period to really dive in, learn as much as I could about what I was going to be doing. And then I really just hit the ground running and very quickly became the top performer on my team. And I really do credit that to the consistency and the drive that I was talking about before.

8:53 Scott Ingram: Well, so let's talk about 2 things here. I want to kind of understand and let you quantify those results for us and kind of what you did in that year in role. But also, especially for those who listened to the interview with Jack, and if you haven't, it's a great one. It's actually, it's one of my favorites. I think Jack's philosophy on what it means to be consistent, what some of those behaviors are, is really fascinating. So I'm really interested in your perspective on really implementing that idea.

9:21 Jay Small: Yeah, absolutely. So to dive in a little bit on some of those metrics and quantifying some of those results first. So I started on plan over there in August of 2018, and I was 178% to goal my first month. My second month there, I was 232% to goal, which left me at 205% to goal for that first quarter that I was in my sales role there. Then going into Q4, I hit 224% to goal my first month of Q4, followed up by 142% to goal and then 105% to goal in December. It was that typical December slowness at the end of the month, but still I finished with a total of 144% to goal for the quarter and ended at 161% to goal for the year. So our comp plan and our targets when I first started there were an increasing revenue model. So basically the revenue that I had to sell was doubling each month. So it was pretty hard to keep up with. And some of the other salespeople were really struggling and really falling behind with So they actually decided to shift their compensation model, which I'm sure some people are familiar with having a sales organization kind of switch things up on them. But what they did was they readjusted to only be looking for recurring revenue starting in January of 2019. So our target was to get $3,000 a month in recurring revenue. So basically you're making a $36,000 sale for the year each month to sustain quota. So, you know, I remained above above goal at right around 100% to 105% of goal each month, right up until I decided to purchase the franchise in June. So it was really, you know, a challenge to kind of switch up the comp plan, but I still took it head on and I still wanted to go out there and over-index and overperform. So looking at what that equates to revenue-wise, at the time that I went to actually decide to purchase my territory, I was up to rough revenue of around $500,000 for the year, and that's recurring revenue. So basically, it made it a lot easier for me to kind of make that transition into a business owner because I realized I could already do this. I can already build a business. If you look at some of the other companies in our industry, or if you look at some of the industry data in general, Datto, who's an industry expert, actually says that 51% of managed service providers are below $500,000 in revenue per year. So that's the whole company's below $500,000 in revenue. So if I'm able to produce that by myself, I was very comfortable in what I'd be able to do running my own business and bringing on some people to work with me to go out and really try to crush it. So those are, you know, really where my results lied, and it's really what helped push me into deciding to take on the franchise role too.

12:18 Scott Ingram: Awesome. Now before I continue my conversation with Jay, let me tell you a little bit about our sponsor Vidyard GoVideo. Email isn't dead, but it sure can be boring. Send personal video messages instead. Instead, to connect, convert, and close with Vidyard GoVideo. Vidyard GoVideo helps you easily record, send, and track who is viewing your video and content in 3 simple steps. First, you can capture your screen or tab and add a personal touch by recording yourself on camera too, right from your browser. Next, you can share those videos through email, social, or anywhere else with just a few clicks. And then finally, see when someone watches your video through browser notifications. GoVideo will let you know who clicked play and how much they watched. Install GoVideo for free by visiting top1.fm/v. So, Jay, let's go back to the consistency piece, right? And the way that you were… what did that mean for you? Maybe for folks who aren't familiar with Jack's approach.

13:20 Jay Small: Yeah. So, Jack created this approach which he had all of us following, and it really was a powerful approach. It was the 2-4-6-8 approach, he called it. So, that equated to 8 calls a day, 6 walk-ins a day, 4 networking events a week, and then 2 tier 1 partner meetings per week as well. So a tier 1 partner would be somebody almost like a channel partner or something like that, somebody who's getting in front of the same customers that we are and has a high propensity to get us in front of those people or make an introduction. And for people that aren't familiar with a walk-in, that's just a, you know, straight up cold walk-in into a business. I know you had Dale Dupree on here a couple of weeks ago, and he's very familiar with the walk-ins as well. And they really… I can't say enough how effective of a method that is to kind of switch up the cadence a little bit because I think a lot of people get into the trap of making phone calls day in, day out, and then following up with emails and not really getting anywhere. After a while, people just kind of put you on the back burner and ignore you or block your number or put you to spam or whatever. But it's hard to ignore somebody when they walk in and actually introduce themselves and talk about how they could potentially help your business. So I can't stress enough that that combination of those 4 different activities really, really do come together to drive results. So I stayed very consistent with that. And whenever I had the opportunity to, I would over-index because after a while we started to realize, okay, if I do this, I'm gonna just barely hit my number each month. So I want to exceed my number each month. Everybody wants to blow their quota out of the water. So it became, okay, which one of these methods are most effective and which ones can I over-index on? Because at first I was trying to over-index a lot on networking events, but that'll take up a lot of your time and not necessarily have the direct payoff that you may be looking for. So I over-indexed a lot on phone calls and I over-indexed a lot on actual tier 1 partner meetings as well, as well as, you know, hitting those walk-in targets and the networking event targets. And I feel like that's really what allowed me to basically blow my quota out of the water.

15:25 Scott Ingram: And so when you say over-index, what, what were the target numbers that you ended up adopting?

15:31 Jay Small: Yeah. So for Jack's 2-4-6-8 method, he says to do that every day. But he also told us to build an admin day into our workweek. So, you know, most people would take Monday and not do those activities that day. They would, you know, do admin stuff and just get their week set up, build their leads list, figure out what events they were going to that week, figure out all that stuff. So I actually started doing that stuff. Over the weekend so that I didn't have to take the admin day. I could make that a full day of sales. And then I actually just bumped up the ones that I wanted to over-index. So the calls, I realized, hey, you know, 8 calls, you can hammer those out pretty quickly. Why don't I shoot for 15 calls? So, you know, just because it seemed like a nice, you know, not round number, but 15 just seemed like something that's easy to track. So I just started doing 15 calls every day. And then tier 1 meetings, it's a little harder to you know, figure out if you're going to be able to over-index Tier 1 meetings every single week, because that's really dependent on, you know, your channel partners' availability as well. But any opportunity that I got, I would try to double those as well and get 4 Tier 1 meetings a week. So really, I just looked at the things that I thought I could double and I just doubled those and then went after it.

16:45 Scott Ingram: Nice. And what, what worked? I mean, what seemed to perform the best for you?

16:49 Jay Small: Yeah. So for me, I've always been very comfortable on the phone. Back in my insurance sales days, I'd say 90% of my business was sold over the phone. A lot of it was one-call closes too, which that was something for me to get used to going into more of a B2B role where you're not going to one-call close somebody on switching their IT support. It's a lot longer of a sales cycle. But still, I over-indexed on the phone calls quite a bit, and I felt that phone calls really were how I was able to get the most with the least amount of time. Because if I'm trying to over-index walk-ins, I spend most of my day in the car driving around. As effective as they are, I still think that hammering out the phone calls and still having that time in your day to send emails and to nurture other customers that you already have and to just be focusing in on social selling and some of the other things that slipped through the cracks, it allowed me to still have that time. So that's really where I over-indexed the most and found the most results were the phone calls.

17:53 Scott Ingram: Nice. And if you don't mind, I mean, let's, let's peel that onion back even just a little bit further. What's, what's your approach on the phone? I mean, walk us through a typical cold call.

18:01 Jay Small: Yeah, so I always like to gather information on my first phone call, and you always have to have a plan for the call too. So if your goal for that call is just to gather information and then set a next step, then that's what your goal for the call is. You can't switch it up mid-call because it throws your your cadence off, it throws the call off, and it really changes things dynamically. So if your goal for that call is to set a meeting, then your goal for that call has got to be to set a meeting. If your goal for that call is just to get information and then maybe send something over or follow up with another call and set that follow-up call, then that's going to be your goal of the call. So when I get on the phone with somebody, I keep it real low pressure, like not trying to sound like a salesperson calling up to earn their business. I call in and really just try to figure out what people are doing. I really spent a lot of time educating myself on how we're able to help our customers because that's what I wanted to talk about when I got somebody on the phone was some of the results that we've driven for other people. So if I was calling into, say, a biotech company, I would maybe call in and say, hi, this is Jay with Cinch IT. I'm just curious as to what you're doing to secure your database of information because we find that with a lot of biotech startups, they're not using the most secure methods to share information with one another, and we find that it becomes a big challenge as they continue to grow. So I'd say something like that. Just try to figure out what they're doing in that sense, because at the end of the day, if they come back and they tell me, no, we're actually good with all that. Our IT team is really strong. Our cybersecurity is really strong. IT has never been an issue for us, then it's not really worth me trying to push that conversation too much further, because at the end of the day, you're not going to sell something to somebody that really really doesn't need what you're selling or really has no interest in what you're selling. You've got to find those pain points and you've got to work on those. And that's really how you get somebody to become interested in what you're offering and somebody to agree to sit down to a meeting with you. It all stems from that opportunity.

20:05 Scott Ingram: Nice. Nice. So what I'm hearing is it's have a conversation and you're basically just doing some qualifying and figuring out, is it even worth going after this?

20:14 Jay Small: Exactly. I mean, I spend a lot of my time trying to disqualify people because I think a lot of people, and I've fallen into this trap, trap quite a bit too back in my earlier days of sales is when you've got this huge pipeline or you think it's your pipeline, but really it's a bunch of people that aren't qualified to buy from you that you're just wasting time following up on and following up on. If I can clear that out and target the top 10 people that I know, first of all, have the budget for what we're doing, have the need for what we're doing, and there's a big opportunity there, then that's a much more solid pipeline to have those 10 people in there than to have 50 people that aren't qualified.

20:50 Scott Ingram: Nice. Love that. Love that. So let's, let's go back. Let's… you gave us some hints. You talked about your engineering degree and making that transition to sales. Talk about that in a little bit more detail. What prompted that decision? Why did you get involved in sales in the first place?

21:05 Jay Small: Yeah, so it was a couple of things. I started off as a biomedical engineering major over at Worcester Polytechnic Institute in Worcester, Massachusetts. So when I was going through the first couple of years of college over there, it was a lot of lab work, a lot of kind of just being stuck behind a desk. And, you know, it was just very slow and very tedious. And I'm not knocking those professions at all. They're definitely working with some very interesting technologies and they're great professions if that's what your interest is. But I started to realize, you know, doing self-reflection and really thinking internally about the rest of my career, I realized that that's not what I wanted to do. So I switched my major about halfway through college to management engineering, which which is more of like an industrial engineering major where I'm taking a lot more business classes, a lot more entrepreneurship classes and things like that. And it really shifted, or I'd say opened up my mind to different careers that were out there. I had a couple of entrepreneurship classes that actually focused in on sales, which is kind of rare in college, especially in an engineering college. But to be able to take those classes and see what a sales career actually looks like, was very appealing to me. At the same time, I was working part-time at Citizens Bank, as I mentioned, as a banker. So I had quotas there. I'll admit, when I first started at Citizens Bank, I was just kind of going through the motions. It was a part-time job during college and it was paying the bills. But once I started taking some of these sales classes and realizing the opportunity that was out there with sales, I really started to hone it in and started to hit my quotas and started to exceed my quotas. Then I really started making money as a college student working part-time, which was awesome compared to a lot of my friends that were working part-time down at the liquor store, at the pizza place, or whatever. So being able to see that I could be in direct control of my income through commissions really opened my world to a whole new set of goals and opportunities and what was possible. So I decided at that point that I wanted to work for commissions. I didn't want to find a salaried position after college. And ever since then, that's what I've been doing.

23:19 Scott Ingram: Awesome, awesome, awesome. And then you made some, some pretty dramatic changes from banking and kind of the path into IT. Talk us through that and what drove some of those decisions.

23:30 Jay Small: Yeah, so it's actually pretty interesting because when I was at Liberty Mutual… so actually, to take a step back from there, when I was at Citizens Bank, like I said, I met Jack sort of in passing. Like, he was starting at the organization as I was sort of on my way out of the organization. So we worked together for maybe a month month to 2 months or so, but never really got to know each other too well. We just had a few conversations and saw each other work a little bit, but never really got to know each other. So I ended up going to Liberty Mutual Insurance, and while there, I was full-fledged in the insurance stuff, but I was doing a lot of networking stuff. I was doing BNI, was one of the main networking channels that I was a part of. And at my BNI group actually was the CEO of Cinch IT. He was a part of that group. So I met him and actually knew him for a few years before I even started working at Cinch IT. So the way it kind of all came together is towards the end of my tenure at Liberty Mutual, I was just becoming a little bit disenfranchised with the insurance industry as a whole. I wasn't a huge… it was kind of the same internal reflection that I did back when I was in college saying, hey, is this really what I want to do for the rest of my career? I answered it for myself and said, no, it's not. So I started to kind of be open to other opportunities that may be out there. As I was open to that, it was kind of ironic. At the same time, Cinch IT was deciding that they were going to build out a sales team. So the owner, Rick Porter, who was in my BNI group, actually approached me after one of those meetings and said, hey, I think we're going to be building out a sales team over the next 6 months. Would you have any interest in working for me? It was really just perfect timing. I'd be absolutely open to a conversation about what the opportunity looks like. I wasn't even super familiar with what they did over there other than knowing they offered IT support. I wasn't sure of what products they had to offer, services or anything like that. So we were kind of having conversations over that 6-month period. And then I found out that Jack was the business development manager over there as well. So it kind of came full circle. And that's when I really started to get to know Jack was as I was sitting down and having these conversations with Rick, Jack was sitting in on those as well. They were both just so passionate about the company and about the direction that they were going that it was really kind of a breath of fresh air to me, and it made me take that leap from insurance into the IT world.

26:01 Scott Ingram: Very cool. Well, let's continue talking about leaps. So you're about a month into owning your own franchise. So talk about just all of the pieces of that, right? That decision, that opportunity. Obviously, it's very, very early, so we probably won't get to talk a lot about how it's going. Maybe we'll have to do a follow-up on that in a year. Year or two, but just talk about that choice and that path. Yeah.

26:25 Jay Small: So basically, I was working for Cinch IT for about 7 or 8 months when they started talking about the franchise stuff. So when they first brought me in, they weren't really focused in on the franchise side of things. I think that the way that that came along to an idea to them was because of the fact that some of our clients had actually gone through mergers and acquisitions, and our footprint spread from just the Northeast to around the country and actually around the world. So as we've got more and more clients that are spread further and further away from the Northeast, they decided, you know, we should do something that allows us to continue to deliver onsite support to these people as well. So franchising became the best option in their minds for that. So when they started talking about the franchising stuff about 8 months in, at first, I was, you know, just a little surprised. I was like, wow, you guys didn't tell me anything about this. I just, you know, left the job to come over here and now there's a franchise going on. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that I had to make a decision because basically my territory that I'd been working and I'd been making all these connections with was potentially going to be for sale to somebody. So I had to decide, hey, is this something that I want to dive into and actually own? As a salesperson, a lot of times we're thinking of our territory as if it's our own business, but now it was kind of time for me to put my money where my mouth was and say, hey, do I want to own this? Really, if I didn't do that, I probably would have had to leave the organization because I wouldn't have been satisfied working as a salesperson and seeing somebody else take over my territory and sell into that when I know that I worked so hard for that. So really, it was an internal thing. It was intrinsic. I wanted to take it to the next level and I really wanted to, like I said, put my money where my mouth was and say, look, I've been treating this as if it was my business. Now I have the opportunity to actually make it my business. Business. Let's go. Let's do it. Yeah.

28:19 Scott Ingram: Well, I think what's really fascinating about that, I mean, you came from insurance where you probably saw some residual compensation, right?

28:27 Jay Small: Yep.

28:27 Scott Ingram: To a, you know, here you're selling recurring revenue, but I'm guessing you weren't being paid based on the recurring piece. It was you're getting paid on the initial deal. This is pretty traditional, right?

28:38 Jay Small: Right, right. And then you've got, you know, incentives and things. But yeah, for the most part, it's the initial deal. Yeah.

28:44 Scott Ingram: So, so now to have an opportunity to like truly own that business and, you know, when you When you close business that's residual in nature, you keep getting paid. Yeah. Yeah.

28:55 Jay Small: And you get paid a bigger piece of the pie too, which was another thing. It's like, okay, I know that I can do this because I've been having a lot of success with this. The only reason that I wouldn't take this opportunity is if I didn't think I could do it. So it was nice to already have that year in that sales role to kind of already test the waters and already know, hey, this is something that I'm having a lot of success with, that I'm good at, that I'm enjoying, that I'm passionate about, let's take it to the next level and have that opportunity.

29:25 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. Now, I'm curious about, you said you basically bought your territory. So what did you buy exactly?

29:33 Jay Small: So actually, technically, I purchased 2 territories. So I was working from, if anybody's familiar with Massachusetts, there's a highway, Interstate 95, that really cuts up from north to south. Basically, I was working in the Newton territory and going all the way up to kind of the New Hampshire border. So from Newton, Massachusetts up to New Hampshire, the greater Boston region was really my area. So when they split up the territories for the franchise, that actually broke into 2 territories. So I decided, you know what, I'm just going to keep this for myself. And I purchased both the territories.

30:10 Scott Ingram: So super interesting. I mean, again, it's only a month. I mean, I guess my worry coming into that sort of a mode, because I've done And in some ways the opposite, right? I've, I've had my own companies and pretty intentionally decided, you know what, there's a lot of hats to wear and a lot of moving parts when you're, when you're doing that. And I like the opportunity to just focus on the sales and know that the delivery is taken care of and I don't have to worry about the finances and all of the other pieces. How's, how's that so far, right? Realizing that now there's a lot of other responsibility and hats and things that you've got to take care of.

30:44 Jay Small: Right. No. So that probably was the hardest part of the transition. And honestly, that's pretty much what I spent the end of June into the beginning of July, probably the first 2 weeks of July, just getting a handle on the admin side of things because now I've got to worry about payroll and managing an employee. And then I've got to worry about doing the financials, like you said, paying the bills, taking care of the insurance stuff, doing all that business owner stuff that I didn't typically have to be bothered with. So it was really a learning curve where I had to figure out, okay, how am I going to do this? How am I going to still have time to do the sales stuff? And what I decided to do actually was I brought a partner on board with me who's actually… he's one of the people that I met back in college during those network marketing days. He was one of the more successful people at this network marketing company at the time. And I just knew that he had an entrepreneurial background. He was very sales-oriented. So I originally was going to bring him on as a 1099 sales rep for me just to kind of help me make some sales and help me fill in some of the gaps when I'm doing the admin stuff, he could be focused on the sales stuff. But when he saw the opportunity, he actually decided he wanted to partner up with me. And that's really what also made us decide to purchase 2 territories as opposed to 1, because now I had somebody else to help me out to kind of manage that whole area. So basically, I have to be very, very tight with my schedule. I have to calendar everything or else it doesn't happen. So I try to get all the admin stuff out of the way at the beginning of the week, and then I'll allocate some time at the beginning of the day to kind of clear up some emails or do some things like that. But then during the day, I try to stay 100% focused on sales activities. Sometimes that's impossible if some issue arises or there's an employee thing going on and somebody… if there's a fire, I have to put it out, put it that way. But when there's not a fire, I can really focus all my time to those sales efforts. And then when one of those fires do pop out, at least I have him as my business partner that I know he's going to be still focused in on the sales side of things. So it is nice to have somebody kind of in the… with some skin in the game with you as I'm getting used to all these moving parts. But I would say at this point, I've got my schedule down pretty solid where I know what I need to do on the admin side of things to keep the business afloat and to keep the financials in order and to keep everything organized and then still hit those sales activities.

33:20 Scott Ingram: Nice. Well, let's keep going with that piece of the conversation and just talk about just how you're structuring your day, how you're structuring your week. You gave us a pretty good hint at the beginning in terms of doing your admin on the weekend, so maybe we start there. So when on the weekend and what kind of time and how are you setting up your week? And I'll just let you go and take that how you want.

33:41 Jay Small: Sure. Yeah. So I usually try to set up my week on Sundays. So I'll spend… it's not like I spend the whole day Sunday setting up my week, but if I can allocate an hour or 2, I can get everything organized for the week. And it just makes me feel so much better about heading into the week when I know exactly what's going on moving forward. And then I'll spend some time on Saturday mornings as well. Just organizing things and making sure that I cleaned up everything from the week before, that I'm staying on top of the CRM, that my employee and my business partner are both staying on top of the CRM and the notes and all that stuff. So really the weekend is used to kind of organize things, but it's not like I'm working all throughout the weekend. I definitely believe in living your life too. So if I can allocate a couple hours each day, it frees up so much time during the week that I don't have to do those admin things. That's well worth it. Then when the week hits, I'm still sticking to that 2-4-6-8 that we talked about. So again, I'm still trying to over-index that. I've found that being a business owner, I'm doing a lot more networking stuff, kind of just organically. I'm getting invited to a lot more things. I have a lot more opportunities to meet with different people and rub shoulders with different business owners in the community. So I'm taking advantage of all those because I want to just keep getting our message out there and keep getting our brand out there and really be omnipresent with everything. So I am definitely over-indexing on the 2, 4, 6, 8, but I'm still at least hitting that at a minimum. So even if I have a crazy week where it seems like everything's hitting the fan, I can still hit those numbers and know that everything's going to be okay from an activity level.

35:20 Scott Ingram: Nice. Well, and I think that's such a great opportunity, right? When you do have that founder or CEO or owner type of title, the doors open a little bit easier, right? And it's something that I see with very small companies and startups where it's kind kind of founder-led and the, and the founder is kind of the lead salesperson and they bring somebody on and they're like, wait, why, why are you struggling with this? Why is this hard? It's like, wait, it's not quite as easy without that title to begin these conversations that you have. So I can certainly see that makes a ton of sense, right? Take advantage of that opportunity. And now, you know, it's, it's really a peer-level thing. They don't see you as much of that salesperson, even though that, that wasn't, you know, certainly I picked up stylistically, that's really not the approach that you were taking, but it still says sales on business card, right? And we get perceived a certain way.

36:10 Jay Small: Exactly. No, people have more of their guard up, I feel like, when they see sales on the business card just because of the perception. Maybe it's some of the bad salespeople in the industry, some of the people that are just out there to try to do a transaction and then leave their customers high and dry. I think people have been burned a few times by salespeople, whether it's car salespeople that lied to them when they were buying their car or people that lied to them about… even back when I was in insurance, I used to see it all the time where people would come kind of get baited and switched with their insurance, thinking that they were saving a bunch of money. And then 6 months from the time they bought the policy, it would skyrocket up. So there's definitely people out there that are giving salespeople a bad name, and it gives those good salespeople a harder challenge of actually breaking those walls down and getting through that guard. But like you said, when you have… sometimes it's just the title, or maybe it's knowing that you have that skin in the game and realizing that you don't have the option to fail. I like to kind of take away Plan B because if you have a Plan B, it takes away from Plan A. So if you can focus all in on Plan A and really nothing says focusing on Plan A more so than purchasing an actual business and being responsible for all the financial implications that can come from that, you know that you've got skin in the game and that you've got to make it work.

37:27 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think you're able to sort of transfer that level of trust. Right? I mean, you're talking about skin in the game. You're like, look, your results and your experience, not, not just with what I sold you, but now with my company, really matters, right? Because the reputation matters. The, the, the fact that you're going to come back matters, you know, so much more than it does when you're just doing a one-off deal. I mean, and, you know, certainly I look at my own situation, obviously I care. And I think most of the folks that I've interviewed here on, on this podcast, right, we all sort of treat it like our business, like our franchise. But it's, it's, it's It's still different when it really is.

38:06 Jay Small: Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely.

38:09 Scott Ingram: So let's, let's go a little bit deeper into an individual day. So I know you listen to the show, you know, kind of the process. So alarm goes off, what times? Like, give us, give us the blow-by-blow through a, through a typical day. And maybe we want to look at a typical day sort of before, because I know you're probably still kind of settling into the, the new franchise owner, but as a seller, what did that look like? Sure.

38:29 Jay Small: Yeah. So I like to get up pretty early and get an early start on the day. So the alarm is typically going to go off sometime between 4:45 and 5:30, depending on if I was at a networking event the night before or if I was working a 14-hour day the day before, I might sleep in a little bit later. But typically 4:45 to 5:30, I'm up. I grab that cup of coffee and I start just reading some stories or articles. On interesting things in my industry. So Jack actually introduced me to an app called Feedly that you can kind of choose what types of news or industries you want to follow on there, and it will post relevant articles for you to look at. So I always just try to start the day pretty low-key, not doing too much with technology or Facebook or social media or things like that. I like to try to stick to just reading some articles, enjoying that cup of coffee, and kind of easing my way into the day. Then probably sometime around 6:30, 7:00 AM, I open up my email and that's when I start responding to emails from the night before or sending out maybe some proactive emails that I have to do if there was anything that I owed to somebody or anything like that. Then the days are all really kind of different because like I said, I try to do a lot of networking stuff. So sometimes there's networking events in the morning that I have to head off to. Other times I'm doing networking in the afternoon or sometimes I'm doing midday networking. On those networking blocks again and putting everything on my calendar so I can see where I'm gonna have time for my other prospecting activities because I definitely want to make sure that I'm blocking out a couple hours a day to make phone calls, that I'm blocking out time to do those walk-ins, that… and then kind of everything is kind of fit in around those networking events because there's no way that you're gonna really change the time of a networking event. I can push a call block back an hour or pull it forward an hour, but those events are kind of set in stone. So I use those as kind of the baseline to set the rest of my day up around that. I also try to make sure that I get to the gym every day. Back when I was in the individual sales role, that would be something that I did first thing in the morning. But now that I have a little bit more freedom as a business owner, or maybe even less freedom as a business owner depending on which way you look at it, sometimes those mornings get tied down with emails and sometimes there's more urgent stuff. Sometimes I've got to get in touch with, you know, one of my techs or, you know, my business partner in the morning and just, you know, figure out what their schedule looks like for the day and what we're focused on for that day and make sure we're all on the same page. So I've actually started going to the gym during lunch. I tend to do intermittent fasting, so I don't really eat my first meal of the day until around 2:00 PM or so, sometimes even later than that. So that lunch block from like 11:30 to 1:00, I can kind of take that, go to the gym then. If somebody's sending me an email or give me a call, I can get back to them right after that. And they understand that I was probably at lunch even though, you know, I'm not eating anything. So I can take that time that I would have been sitting down and eating something and actually going, getting to the gym. And it really gives me that second wind for the second half of my day. Because typically I'll be working until 5 o'clock or so, and then there's usually an after-hours networking event or something like that. So a lot of days, once the day starts, I'm not getting back home until maybe 7, 8, even 9 o'clock at night.

41:46 Scott Ingram: Awesome. Love the detail there. So just like we did with the… with your approach to cold calls, what's your approach to networking?

41:52 Jay Small: Yeah, so I have seen some people use some terrible networking approaches before, and my approach is really not to sound like those people. I feel like you've really got to be authentic when you're networking with people and you've really got to show interest in who somebody is and what they're doing and what their goals are. So I've seen plenty of people at networking events that are almost like a Pez dispenser for business cards. They're just handing them out to everybody, you know, telling you what they can sell you and what they can do, trying to set up a meeting. And I feel like that's, you know, again, talking about people that give salespeople a bad name. That's one of those things that does that. Nobody wants to take your business card and set up a meeting with you before they even know who you are or what you're doing. So I use those networking events as an opportunity to really meet people. I wanna have a few solid connections during that meeting. I don't wanna necessarily meet every single person in the room. So if I'm able to get a list of who's gonna be attending that event ahead of time, I'll take a look at that list and I'll see, okay, out of these 50 people that are registered for this event, who are the top 5 people that would really make an impact if I was able to connect with them, get to know them, maybe keep conversation going after the fact. Then I'll focus in on that. If I don't get one of those lists ahead of time, then you just kind of go through the event and you meet people, but you'll start to figure out who people are after a while. I've been going to the same Chamber of Commerce events for the last year or so now because, again, I was selling in this territory before I owned a franchise in this territory. So now it's gotten to the point where I go to a networking event and I know a lot of the in the room. And so people are coming up to me and introducing me to people, especially now since I purchased the franchise. Everybody loves kind of making that introduction that, you know, I just purchased a franchise, I'm a new business owner, you should meet Jay. So it's nice to kind of be at the point now where I go to these events, I've got a lot of knowledge of who the people are in the room, and they're willing to actually introduce me to some of their colleagues and their associates and their clients and other people that are at those events. So it's kind of evolved over time, but the main thing I would say with a networking event is Just try to have those 5 solid connections with people at that event. Don't try to give everybody your business card.

44:06 Scott Ingram: Nice. Nice. I love the pest dispenser. It's horrible, but it's a great analogy. And I know the 2 is the 2 kind of tier 1 conversations. Are those people that you're meeting at networking events? Are they folks that you're targeting from other ways? Where do those come from and what does that even look like?

44:26 Jay Small: Yeah. So a lot of those people I do meet through networking events or networking groups or things like that, but also a lot of those people I meet on LinkedIn. So I will use LinkedIn. I think LinkedIn is a very valuable tool, especially if you have Sales Navigator, but I will use that to kind of find people in those tier 1 industries. So for me, as an IT company, I know that the people that get in front of my customers the most, that have the most opportunity to introduce me to them, or it would be the most, probably the easiest for them to introduce me to one of their customers, are internet service providers, so Comcast people or Verizon people, things like that, phone vendors, web development people. All those types of industries are tier 1 industries for me. So when I'm going to a networking event, those are the types of people that I'm looking to meet. When I don't necessarily have tier 1 meetings lined up for the week, I will go on LinkedIn, and I've actually met some of the best referral partners I have by just starting with a LinkedIn message telling them a little bit about myself, what we do, and how I think they'd be good to synergy between the two of us.

45:30 Scott Ingram: Nice, nice. Well, that's, that's a much smarter way to do a LinkedIn message rather than the generic thing, right? Like, hey, here's, here's really why it makes sense for us to meet, and maybe I can even send you some business, right? That, that tends to get people's attention. Well, let's keep going with, with kind of the tools and the apps, right? So LinkedIn… I think every person I've ever talked to has mentioned LinkedIn. What else? I mean, what's, what's kind of core to the way that you're operating from a technology standpoint?

45:55 Jay Small: Sure. So yeah, LinkedIn and Sales Navigator are huge. I use Audible, like I said, anytime I'm driving somewhere, I've got either Audible or I'm listening to podcasts on the iPhone through there. So that goes back to kind of that personal development thing. I love those apps. Other than that, honestly, I actually just started using LeadIQ. So shout out to the LeadIQ guys. Shout out to Jeremy over there. I think that that's an amazing tool when you're building lead lists. It really takes a lot of the time out of doing some of the backend research, scrolling through LinkedIn page after page. It really allows you to create a quick lead list. But other than that, it's just the basic things like email and all that stuff. I wouldn't say I necessarily have any crazy secret app that I'm using that's helping me a ton other than the ones that we mentioned.

46:45 Scott Ingram: Gotcha. Well, let's go deeper into the specifics of Audible and podcasts. So what are your favorite podcasts? And let's give a call-out to, I don't know, however you want to manage Audible, right? If there's a couple or 3 books that have really impacted your, your thinking and your approach maybe in the last couple of years.

47:02 Jay Small: Yeah, sure. So podcast-wise, I love listening to the Sales Podcast. So I love this podcast here. I love John Barrows' Make It Happen Mondays. I think that's a great podcast. Brutal Truth About Selling, Brian Burns' podcast, is excellent. And then I also kind of listen to some other podcasts. Like, I like listening to the Joe Rogan podcast. I actually find that some of the topics that, you know, you'll hear about on Joe Rogan are just so all over the place that actually going back to, you know, when you're at networking events or when you're sitting down and talking to somebody, you can kind of, you know, branch off and have a really deep, interesting conversation just by some of the strange facts or strange subjects that you'll start to learn by listening to a podcast like Joe Rogan's. Or I also like Tim Ferriss a lot, the way that he, you know, breaks down world-class performers. I think it's, you know, really beneficial to kind of hear that type of thing. He almost does the same thing that you do with salespeople, only he does it across the board with all sorts of technology startup founders and people like that. So those are the main podcasts that I listen to. When it comes to books, I love Fanatical Prospecting by Jeb Blount. I think that that is one of the best prospecting books ever written, to be honest with you. Like I said before, Think and Grow Rich really changed my whole mindset on everything. So Napoleon Hill, Think and Grow Rich is an amazing book. And then even though he gets a lot of hate sometimes, I like listening to Grant Cardone. I think that some of his methods aren't necessarily the best approach to B2B sales depending on what you're selling, but I just love his passion about what he's doing. And I think he pretty much coined the term 10x. So anytime I listen to Grant Cardone, I just really get fired up and motivated. And I think it is important to stay motivated like we're talking about with consistency and drive. It all kind of stems from your motivation.

48:48 Scott Ingram: Yeah, nice, nice. Great, great set of resources. And as always, we'll put those into the show notes. So there will be links to everything if you go to top1.fm and you can just go to top1.fm/jay-small. Because I don't remember what episode number this will be. We're running a ways ahead, which is fantastic, but it also means I have no idea. What about from a sales philosophy standpoint? Is there a particular approach that you subscribe to or that is kind of central to the way that you tackle this?

49:19 Jay Small: Yeah. So John Barrows actually talks about this a lot too, where he doesn't really believe in sales methodologies anymore. He's more of an agile seller, You're taking bits and pieces from other different sales methodologies. And I'd agree with that. So, you know, I've listened to the Challenger Sale and GAP Selling and the SPIN Selling and the Sandler Sales and all that stuff. And I think it's important to be able to take bits and pieces from all of those. But, you know, at the end of the day, sales is a very human thing. And when you try to make it too structured and too methodical and too like by the book, I think that you start to miss some of that human element. So I think it's important to understand the principles, of all these different philosophies, but at the end of the day, I think that the most successful salespeople can take bits and pieces as needed, depending on the type of person that they're dealing with.

50:09 Scott Ingram: Love it.

50:09 Jay Small: Love it.

50:09 Scott Ingram: I talk about that a lot, and you described it maybe better than I do. I think that's exactly the common theme across all of these different interviews is… and I like the idea of it being agile, right? It's not… you're never done, right? You're always continuing to develop and continuing to learn and continuing to bring in and tweak and refine and get better and better and better as you do this. But it's not, you know, this is the model that I use and I'm this kind of robot.

50:39 Jay Small: Right.

50:39 Scott Ingram: So what about, what about your style sort of in that agile approach? How would you describe your style?

50:45 Jay Small: So I was thinking about this and I don't really know style-wise how I would describe it other than just being authentic. I think it really comes down to your authenticity when you're talking with people. So you've got to be able to relate to people. You've got to be relatable. You've just got to understand the type of person you're dealing with, what their goals are, what their passion is, and that'll really help you to determine what approach you take with that sale. Because at the end of the day, you want to be a trusted advisor for somebody. In our case, we want to be somebody's business partner because when you take us on as your IT company, that's literally what we are. We're an extension of your business and we want to help you grow. We want to help support that growth and we want to be there for you as your partner. The only way that we're able to really work together on that type of a level is by being truly authentic.

51:36 Scott Ingram: So this is a big topic these days, and I absolutely agree with this. What does that mean, though? So for you specifically, like when you think about being authentic, how does that manifest?

51:46 Jay Small: Yeah. So I think a lot of it comes down to really just being yourself with people and not trying to… again, it kind of goes back to when we're qualifying prospects and disqualifying prospects. Don't try to fit, you know, a square peg through a round hole. There's some business relationships that won't really be good relationships. And if you can identify those at the beginning and stay away from those, I feel like that's one of the best ways to be authentic is to work with people that you know and want to work with by just being yourself. Because if you're trying to put on a mask or be this type of person or this type of organization for one company and then being a whole different person for somebody else, it's just not sustainable and it's not good business. At the end of the day, you want to be able to truly be yourself around your clients and truly know that you're not putting on some sort of a facade when you're working with these other companies out there.

52:39 Scott Ingram: Nice, nice, nice, nice. You know, for me, I think that comes out in terms of my memory. It just sucks. I don't know what the issue is with my memory these days. Like, if it's not written down somewhere, it didn't happen. And so, you know, when it comes to special deals and special offers and all of this stuff. I can't do that, right? I have to be honest and tell the truth because I can't keep track of a whole bunch of BS because I'm going to get screwed in sort of that model, right? And a lot of things that I do both in my day job and with the Sales Success Summit and things like that, right? Like, the price is the price. There's no special deals and I have to remember we did this and there's so many games that you can always play with the numbers, right? And, and exactly justify and make up those stories, but I just can't keep track of the stories. So it's just a lot easier to be consistent and, and be human about it and, you know, do a, do a better job of establishing the value for what the price is. And then you don't have to mess around with, with all the silly discounts and silly games, right?

53:41 Jay Small: I mean, I'm not sure who said it, but they say if, if you tell the truth, you don't have to have a good memory.

53:45 Scott Ingram: Exactly.

53:46 Jay Small: You know, just exactly.

53:47 Scott Ingram: That suits me really Yep. So we talked about the consistency. What motivates the consistency? Like, how do you kind of maintain your drive?

53:57 Jay Small: Yeah, so I am very intrinsically motivated. So it really comes from not wanting to fail, but also wanting to be the best that I can be. So every single day, I'm trying to push the needle forward and be better and better. And really, when it comes down to consistency, I've heard other people say it before, so it's a little cliché at this point, but if you're getting 1% better each day, then after 100 days, you're twice as good as when you started. So just being consistent, seeing those small improvements, celebrating those small improvements and those achievements when they happen, but continuing to push the needle forward. I just love being able to look back at where I was, you know, a year ago or 2 years ago or 3 years ago and see how far I've come. And that's what really keeps motivating me forward. So I've definitely got goals. I think it's important to write down your goals and to be aware of where you're trying to head because, you know, at the end of the day, if you don't know where you're trying to to go, it's going to be hard for you to get there. But having those goals and then staying motivated by seeing those small improvements and celebrating those small improvements and just staying with it is what motivates me.

55:03 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it's more linear than that, right? I mean, 1% every day for 100 days is multiples better just because of the compounding that you get. So again, hard to measure that idea, but I think just that type of a mindset, right? If you're sort of approaching it that way and finding different areas where you can improve at that of a rate, it's a massive difference. I mean, I think I saw, and maybe we'll find something we can put into the notes here as well. I think if you are to actually do that, right, if you did 1% better every day for a year, you end up being 13 times better or something like that, right? And the opposite is bad. So, it's much better to get 1% better than 1% worse every day.

55:48 Jay Small: Yeah, and I even would say that if you're staying the same, you're gonna get worse as well because you're not honing your skills and everybody else is moving forward without you. So even if you stay exactly where you are today and you don't do anything to improve yourself, over time that's gonna show and you're gonna be way behind.

56:05 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, the world is moving too fast for any of us to stand still.

56:09 Jay Small: Absolutely.

56:10 Scott Ingram: So is there something you believe that the average sales rep would think is crazy?

56:15 Jay Small: Yeah, I would probably say I don't really believe in work-life balance. I think that if you are trying to do a work-life balance, it means that you're not really enjoying your work enough or you're not passionate enough about your work. So it's not to say that I don't take a vacation and kind of shut off for a little bit, but, you know, I have no problem getting up early in the morning, doing work in the morning, you know, working throughout the day, working at night, working on the weekends. And it's because I'm so passionate about what I'm doing. It's really a part of my life, especially now as a business owner. You know, my business is my passion and it is a part of my life. So I'm not trying to balance that out. I feel like that's where a lot of those people that are dreading Monday, that's where that comes from, is because you're separating work from pleasure and work should be pleasurable. So you shouldn't have to make that distinction like, oh no, now I'm doing life things. It's no, like if your work is a part of your life, you're going to always kind of be incorporating the two together.

57:12 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So, so good. I always say that if you don't love what you do, It's work and work sucks. And I love my family, but I look forward to Monday. So, I think the minute that that starts to change, it's time to kind of pick your head up and go, okay, am I really in the right place? Am I really doing the right thing? Whether that's the type of work that you're doing or the company that you're doing it with, I think those are important evaluations.

57:39 Jay Small: Absolutely. And I've had those evaluations before, as we've talked about, and it's completely normal to feel that way. But if you do, you've got to recognize that and don't just accept it. Do something about it.

57:49 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. What about the flip side? Is there something that the average sales professional believes that you think is crazy?

57:55 Jay Small: Yeah, I would say that the average salesperson thinks that they have to be more prepared than they really do. So what I mean by that is I see it a lot where people are afraid to pick up the phone because they say they don't know enough about the person that they're calling, or they've got to do more research, or they've got to get their script better, or they've got to get their pitch better, write everything out. And that's fine to an extent. But I think people get paralysis from that after a while, and it's not even as important as it may… people may think it is. For example, I've spent time in the past doing a lot of research and then prepping the perfect phone call just to find out that when I call into the company, that person doesn't even work there anymore. So you can waste all day just preparing for a phone call but never actually do it, especially with all… going back to some of the methodologies that we were talking about. If you're just trying to do all these methodologies and have all this line by line, okay, if they say this, I'll say this. If they say this, I'll say this. It just takes the human element out of it. And really, like I was saying, when I call people, my first approach is just to figure out information anyway. It's just a conversation. At the end of the day, you're just making a phone call. And even if you have a terrible phone call, the clients that you're calling nowadays, or the prospective clients that you're calling nowadays, are getting so many phone calls that if you call them back a week later, they won't even remember who you were anyway, and you have a second chance. So I think that people really do spend too much time preparing nowadays. It's not to say you don't need to prepare at all, because that's not what I'm saying here, but I just think you don't want to get bogged down with it to the point where you're not actually making the call.

59:31 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's, that's a solid observation. And man, I've been there. I mean, certainly early in my career, I mean, I was one to definitely analysis by paralysis… or sorry, what is it?

59:42 Jay Small: Paralysis by analysis, maybe.

59:46 Scott Ingram: But you know, just, just that idea idea of like, I've got to have this perfect before you do it. And then, you know, it's, it's one of those, you know, the, the perfect battle plan is, is useless once the, once the first shot is fired, right? Like the first word just throws the whole thing out, out the window. And what I've started to do now and further into my career is like, when you feel that, that trepidation and that nerve and that feeling like, oh, I'm not ready, that's when you've just got to pick up the phone and do it.

1:00:16 Jay Small: Absolutely right.

1:00:17 Scott Ingram: Like, it doesn't, it doesn't get better spending another 10 minutes, 30 minutes. Like, there's… stop it. Just pick up the dang phone because you're probably just gonna end up leaving a voicemail anyway, right? So just don't, don't waste the time and get after it.

1:00:31 Jay Small: Yeah, I would say that's the best indicator of something that you should be doing is when you don't want to do it. When you've got that discomfort or that nervousness, that means you're pushing yourself out of your growth zone, or into your growth zone, I should say. And then that's really where all the success comes from. And that's how you move the needle forward is, you know, just about every decision you make in your life, you hear that voice in your head saying, oh, you don't have to do that. You know, you can just keep doing things the way they are. You don't have to make that extra call. You don't have to go to that networking event. You won't know anybody there. You could actually just do this. It's fine. And if you just ignore that voice and you can push through that and just make the effort or make the leap into that uncomfortableness, that's really where all the success that I've had in my career looking back, that's really where it stemmed from. Is always trying to follow that discomfort.

1:01:16 Scott Ingram: Yeah, 100%. So let's continue on, on that theme, because I like to ask just what you think the most important decisions you've made or lessons you've had to learn to get where you are today have been.

1:01:28 Jay Small: Yeah, I think definitely some of the decisions we've talked about, you know, switching my major back in college. I think if I didn't do that, I could be in a completely different spot right now. I mean, I could be at a 9-to-5 engineering job that I'm miserable at, just kind of going through the motions. Who knows, maybe I would have never taken those sales classes, never gotten on that personal development kick or any of that stuff, and I'd be living a completely different life right now. Leaving Liberty Mutual to go to Cinch IT was a huge step at the time. I was very comfortable at that job and I was pretty successful there too. I wasn't a 1% performer, but I was consistently in the top 15% to 20% of reps there. And like you said, I was starting to build out a nice book of residuals and making good money. It would have been very easy to be comfortable there, but again, I don't I would have been happy even, you know, a year or two later. So making those decisions and making those jumps, I think they were all super important to where I am right now.

1:02:20 Scott Ingram: Nice. So maybe this is a continuation of the theme, but what advice would you give to somebody that's just starting out in a sales career today?

1:02:27 Jay Small: Yeah, so I would say the biggest thing is, is find the most successful people in your organization and learn from them, you know, whether it's watching what they do, whether it's And if you can take them out to lunch or buy them a cup of coffee or anything, follow those top performers, figure out what they're doing because you don't need to reinvent the wheel. That's something that I wish I had learned earlier in my sales career because I've made countless mistakes that I don't think I would have necessarily had to had I just followed the most successful people and let them kind of lead the path for me. It's so easy to do. Every organization has the top people and I guarantee you they're more than willing to share some insights with you.

1:03:05 Scott Ingram: Yeah, great, great stuff. And you set me up really, really well to talk about the Sales Success Summit, which I know you're coming to. And, you know, the other thing that I'm really building into that is a deeper exploration of this sales career topic, right? So whether that is, hey, I just, I want to continue to be in the field, and whether that's moving into larger roles or, you know, whatever that might look like, we'll certainly explore what I call the individual, the intentional individual contributor path. We'll explore the sales leadership path, but we're also going to have a panel and talk about alternative paths. And that's where Jay's going to be on stage just to kind of represent the, hey, you could buy a franchise or you could own your own business, right? As, as another kind of alternate path. So lots, lots of opportunity there to learn. A lot of folks that have been on this show are going to be there and certainly we'll have a lot of great content. But just to your point, right, having, having those mentors, learning from people who have gotten out and done it before and had a lot of success. That's really what this is about, right? It's building that kind of community, that kind of peer group who you can continue to learn from, not just over the course of a 2-day event, but over the course of really your career. I mean, the goal is to create lifetime relationships. So super looking forward to the Sales Success Summit. That'll be here in Austin, October 14th and 15th. You can learn all those details at top1summit.com. So, continuing with the advice dispensing. So, what about somebody that is a little bit further into their career, right? So, they're established. And I mean, there's a whole range that they could be in, right? Maybe they are in that place where, you know, they're doing okay. I mean, maybe you want to give advice to yourself in that Liberty Mutual role, right, where you are like, look, I'm comfortable. I'm in the top 15%, 20%. I'm doing well. Performing. But maybe, maybe you in that role had a desire to, to be more, to do more. What, what advice would you give to Liberty Mutual, Jay?

1:05:07 Jay Small: Yeah, so, you know, honestly, looking back on that, I really do believe that I just wasn't passionate about what I was doing, and, and I'm glad that I identified that. So I don't know if that's necessarily the best person to give advice to, because if you're not passionate about what you're doing, maybe you do need to evaluate what you're doing and see if there's a different opportunity out there for you. But going back to kind of what we were talking about before with the discomfort, I think that, you know, if you're comfortable, it means that you're not following that discomfort and you're not pushing yourself and setting new limits for yourself and kind of going out of the boundaries that you're used to. So that's a good indication that there is more to do. There's always more that you can expose yourself to or more things you can do to kind of get out of your comfort zone. And that's what I would say. If you're, you know, if you love the company you work for, but you're not performing the way that you want to perform over there, take a look at how often you're making yourself this uncomfortable. And if you're not, which I'm assuming, at least I know for me, I wasn't really pushing my comfort zone back at Liberty Mutual. And I think if I had jumped into some of those situations, maybe gone to the different networking events, met different people, made the extra calls, got out there and just walked into the businesses, how uncomfortable is that? But it pays off and you never know where that next sale can come from. And when I look back at some of my best sales, they came when I was doing things that I was most uncomfortable with.

1:06:35 Scott Ingram: Nice. So the question I typically ask is what you want to know about top sellers in other organizations, but I'm going to tweak it just slightly. So one of the things that I've been doing is as folks sign up for the summit, I call them and we set up a quick conversation just so that I can understand what they're trying to get out of that experience. Of that time with us in Austin. So maybe I'll just ask you that, right? What is your hope? What's your goal from your time here in Austin at the Sales Success Summit?

1:07:07 Jay Small: Yeah, so I'm definitely looking forward to being able to meet some of these top performers out there and really get to add them to my personal network, you know, staying in touch with people and really getting to know who they are, where they came from, you know, what led them to where they are today and how their day-to-day life looks. Because I swear every single person that I talk to that's a top performer, they all do something a little differently, but I can take bits and pieces of all that, kind of like what we were talking about with the sales methodologies. You can take the same thing from people's daily habits or day-to-day activities or mindset shifts, anything that it may be, and just take pieces of that and make it your own. So I'm really looking forward to just meeting some of these people, having conversations. Communications, and just getting to know people and hopefully staying in touch afterwards.

1:07:56 Scott Ingram: Nice. Now, are there specific details that you might be looking for? Because as I'm thinking through the agenda, you know, we're going to spend a lot of time talking about various elements of the sales process. We're going to spend time getting into the mindset and getting into kind of organization processes and methodologies, right, just to be more effective in the way that you're selling in your day-to-day. Does that fit? Are there other things that are, that are really driving your interest that I might be able to put some extra attention into?

1:08:25 Jay Small: Yeah, I mean, I love just learning what people are doing for their prospecting. You know, how are you finding new business? Where are you finding your new deals from? It's always very interesting to me because for, you know, a salesperson, really, you're nothing without your pipeline. That's really the lifeblood of your, you know, sales performance. It all starts at the pipeline. So how do you build a solid pipeline? It comes from prospecting and seeing what's working for people. I've seen all sorts of creative ideas that people use. And I love just, you know, hearing something that somebody is doing and be like, wow, I can't believe I never thought of that. And then being able to incorporate that.

1:08:59 Scott Ingram: Yeah, great, great, great stuff. And we're going to call that Monday morning.

1:09:02 Jay Small: So that's awesome.

1:09:03 Scott Ingram: That's, that's where we're going to start, right? If you don't have a sales process, if you don't have people in, in your sales funnel, so, you know, that's, that's really where it's, where it's going to start. Another thing I'll throw out there, if folks, if you're, if you join the listener list, if you go to top1.fm/listen, When you join the listener list, you'll get an email from me about once a week, and it's just kind of updates on what's happening on the show, what's happening in my life, and different things I'm running across. I'll also do a recap of the different Daily Sales Tips podcast episodes. But when you join that list, I will send you the video of your choice from the 2018 Sales Success Summit. And one, if you're interested in kind of the prospecting and the pipeline development and management, David Weiss did a presentation. On maybe he… shoot, there's one or two that I might be mixing up, but he talked about just sort of territory and pipeline management. And actually, that one he did with Trey Simonton. There's some great, great stuff in there. So when you join that list, you just shoot me an email and ask me for the video. The instructions are involved in that first email that you'll get. I'd love to send that to you. Hopefully that adds some value. And Jay, since you're coming to the summit, you get all those videos.

1:10:15 Jay Small: Awesome.

1:10:15 Scott Ingram: So you've worked in a variety of places, and I'm always curious about… and I know mentors are a big part of your success. Who's the most successful salesperson you know personally?

1:10:28 Jay Small: So I think Jack would be mad if I didn't name him since he got me on here. You know, every organization I've worked with, there's been a couple of great, great sales leaders and salespeople that I've gotten to know. And, you know, back at Liberty Mutual, Tom Von Jess, my sales manager over there, incredible sales person. Even though he was in a management role at the time, he was one of the few managers in the region that would still sit in on a sales call. He'd call somebody for a rep if the deal was going cold or something like that. I'd see him where customers would come into the office screaming. He'd take them into his office and then they'd leave with a $200,000 annuity that they just purchased or something like that. So he was absolutely incredible and I learned a ton from him. But honestly, Jack is really a super impressive salesperson as well. It's really been great to be able to work for him for the last year before I purchased this franchise. I think it really set me up for success in this industry and with, you know, everything that he's kind of brought into my life, I can't thank him enough either.

1:11:28 Scott Ingram: Nice. Nice. Yeah. Jack is… I've gotten to know Jack pretty well. We talk with some regularity and just, you know, such a super thoughtful guy. He brings sort of an intelligence and a different perspective that I don't really see anywhere else. So really looking to spend time with him at the summit as well. So, you know, So the last thing I do with these episodes is we try and make it actionable, right? There are all kinds of great ideas and things that came out of this. But for the person that wants to maybe lean into some discomfort and improve themselves, what would you challenge them to do over the course of, say, the next 1 to 2 weeks before the next episode and the next challenge comes about?

1:12:08 Jay Small: Yeah, so I would say kind of just that, kind of follow your gut and whatever your gut's telling you. You know, if you're trying to make excuses for something, whether it's picking up the phone or going to that networking event or doing that walk into that business, you know, and you're just trying to go home early or whatever. Anytime you feel yourself making those excuses, ignore it and just push through. Because as soon as you get through that moment of fear and uncertainty, it goes away. And I can promise you that you'll see results from that if you make that a habit. So that would be my suggestion, is really to be uncomfortable. Just get past that initial moment of discomfort and and follow kind of that uncomfortable feeling.

1:12:47 Scott Ingram: That's a, that's such a great, great challenge. And I want to hear about the results. I want to hear the individual one-off stories of, hey, this week, I just, I really paid attention to that gut feeling of what I know I ought to do. And I started to act on those things. And I want to hear how it went and what results you saw. So you are always welcome because as a listener to this, especially those of you who who listen to the end. This is… it's always a big time investment and commitment because we don't have short conversations here. So I appreciate you. I value you. I hope you're getting a ton of value from these conversations, and I hope that you're acting on them. I hope that you're taking on some of these challenges. And I always love hearing from you guys. You can just shoot me an email to scott@top1.fm, or hopefully you're already on that listener list and you're getting those emails. And any of those emails that I send you, you you could just hit reply. And I do try to respond as much as I can, which is the vast majority of the time. So appreciate you listening, Jay. I really appreciate you sharing your story and super excited for you as you begin this new phase of your journey. And I'll see you here in Austin pretty shortly in October.

1:13:57 Jay Small: Awesome. Thank you so much, Scott. I really appreciate you having me on here and I'm looking forward to October.

1:14:02 Scott Ingram: Game on. Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast. To be sure you never miss an episode and for an invitation to our Sales Success Community powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter at top1.fm.