7: SalesLoft's Top SDR - Angela Kirkland - Using Creativity and Resourcefulness to Get What You Want

0:01 Scott Ingram: You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve. To learn more, visit us at top1.fm. Here's your host, Scott Ingram. Today I'm joined by Angela Kirkland. Angela is the team lead mid-market sales development rep at SalesLoft, and really excited to talk with another SDR and really dig in. Thanks for joining me today, Angela.

0:30 Angela Kirkland: Absolutely. Good morning. Thank you so much, Scott, for having me. I'm really excited to be here and, and talk with the sales community.

0:38 Scott Ingram: Yeah, this, this'll be really fun because it's drinking a lot of champagne, I guess. If, if those who are listening who aren't familiar with SalesLoft, they actually have a tool for the sales development community. So I think there's probably an extra dose of best practices and what works that we can expect in the conversation with Angela today. So really excited to Uh, to really dig in. And like we always do, uh, I asked Angela to talk, think through the top 3 things that have really set her apart and allowed her to get to the top. I guess I didn't say, uh, that Angela is, I hope it goes without saying on this show, she is the number 1 SDR at SalesLoft. So just asked her to frame her thoughts of what are those things that have allowed her to get to and stay at the top consistently. So Angela, I'll let you take those on however you like.

1:28 Angela Kirkland: Yeah, absolutely. So just a little background on myself. I've been at SalesLoft for about a year and a half in the SDR role, and we've gone through a lot of change at the company. So when, when I talked to Scott about this podcast, I really tried to think of the top 3 things I know that have allowed me to be very successful throughout, you know, constant change, because that has has been the one thing that is certain at a startup, which I'm sure many of you can relate to. So the first one for me, and it's been very apparent throughout my whole life, in school and sports, I am, you know, a typical B student. I am, you know, kind of average at any sport that I do. So I've always had a very strong work ethic. And I think that's something that anyone, you know, regardless of talent or skill in a sales development role, especially if you have a very strong work ethic and make it consistent, you are going to see results. I think, you know, for me, if I've hit quota for the month, that doesn't… I don't take my foot off the gas. I, I know that when, you know, the table's hot, I've got to keep going and pushing myself because the next week it may be different. So having a consistent work ethic, I think, is really going to allow you to understand your strengths and your weaknesses as a, you know, as a professional. And then understanding, you know, through that work ethic, maybe when you're most efficient. Scott and I were just actually talking about it this morning. I am kind of dead in the afternoon. I know in the morning, that's when I'm going to be at the top of my game to make calls. Um, and I, you know, just kind of check out and it's hard for me to really keep that energy around 4:30, 5 o'clock every day. So understanding, um, when you're most efficient, capitalizing on that every day with a consistent work ethic, I think is you're, you're going to find really strong results. I don't know if you, you can relate to that at all, Scott.

3:37 Scott Ingram: Yeah, for sure. And I'm, it's interesting that you bring that up about being, um, maybe slightly above average in, in what's typical. Because somebody recently asked me, is being at the top of the, the sales food chain, is that about raw natural talent, or is it something that can be developed? And what I'm hearing you say is it can absolutely be developed. It just, it's going to take work.

4:03 Angela Kirkland: Absolutely. I mean, think about it, you know, anybody you come into… this is essentially my first, you know, sales role. I was in technical recruiting before this, so that was a great foundation, but first kind of software sales role. And it's… I'm a full believer in what you put in is what you're going to get out. And understanding too when to ask for help and when to recognize, okay, you know, I'm really good at calling, but it takes me 30 minutes to write a personalized email. Like, I need to… I need some help with this. And so just navigating, you know, through management and through your mentors and peers that And what does…

4:42 Scott Ingram: I mean, maybe be a little bit more specific. Like, what do you mean by work ethic? Like, what, how would you define that? What does it mean to work really hard?

4:52 Angela Kirkland: Right. So, I mean, I'm not… I don't want to insinuate that I think everyone needs to work, you know, a 12-hour day. Um, I know for, for me as an employee at SalesLoft, it's very important for me to, to one, get, get my stuff done, right? Like at the minimum, I'm going to hit quota. At the minimum, I'm going to, you know, make 50 calls a day. Um, add the net new prospects and companies that I need to, but also I want to be a good teammate. I want to have time. I need to take a break at lunch. I know that for me mentally, like I need to take that break. I know I want to be around for my peers. I sit in a room with all of our sales development reps in a huge bullpen. So that can be very distracting. But I think it's really great for building, you know, camaraderie and helping with morale, with being available to your peers and also, you know, cutting up every once in a while. So I know that for me, you know, if I want to have time to connect with other people, I'm going to have meetings that pop up. I have, you know, I get pulled into interviews like everyone else. You're busy, right? You have things that come up on your calendar. So For me, that consistent work ethic comes with knowing when you're most productive. Even going over like one day a week, I go and work at the coffee shop next door from 7 to 9 because, you know, that, that's my time to really get stuff done. And people start coming in the office around 7:30. You know, you chat, you talk about whatever happened the day before, what they did the night before, get really distracting. So I know for me, I like doing that stuff in the morning, but also I need to get my stuff done. So understanding, you know, what works for you, how to capitalize on the hours you have in the day. Maybe if you, if you have 4 meetings that day, okay, I need to work through lunch or I need to get in an hour earlier. Maybe I need to take my laptop home. Just understanding what your day looks like, what your week looks like, and then structuring that out to make sure you still have time to, to do all of your normal, you know, work.

7:03 Scott Ingram: Yeah, I think that makes so much sense. I mean, I often think about just where my natural energies are. I am an unnatural morning person. I'm up at 4:30 or 5, kind of depending on the day. And I know that's when I… I mean, I… you can't give me coffee. If you give me coffee in the morning, you will scrape me off the ceiling because I come so wired out of the box. And that's when I crank, right? So I try and keep my morning open to knock out those things that I need to do to set up my day. And then I know I'm going to have a lull in energy in that mid to late afternoon timeframe. And that's when I'll put my meetings, because if I'm in front of people and I'm talking with people, that takes care of itself. I don't crash when I'm having a great conversation. And so it's just kind of managing through those energies. So great stuff. What's the next thing?

7:54 Angela Kirkland: Yeah, so For me, I think confidence. I mean, man, you hear it all the time in sales and it's so hard to quantify or so hard to kind of gain. But understanding where you're confident or why you're confident. I mean, number one, at minimum, you really have to believe in what you're selling, right? So for me, I get a lot of confidence from being prepared, from over-preparing, from you know, really wanting to sound at the top of my class. I want to be an educator. I want to have a good understanding of the person I'm talking to, why this is a good fit for their business. And I, you know, a little selfishly, one of the big reasons I took the role at SalesLoft is because I'm selling a tool that is exactly meant for my role. We have sales development, Rep technology. So I'm using the software every day. I know its ins and outs. And, you know, what makes me confident is, is being prepared and informed. A man over at ExecVision, I'm not sure if any of you guys know him, Steve Richard, he has a great little tip called the 3x3 rule. And that's find 3 little nuggets or facts about your prospect or the company that you're calling or emailing into and write it down, write it down in Salesforce, write it down in your sales enablement software. So that way, when you get prompted to call or email that person, you have that information right in front of you. You can reference it on a phone call. And it's 3 by 3, 'cause it's supposed to take no more than 3 minutes to find. So, you know, that's a very easy digestible thing to keep in mind. And I do that for every person I'm reaching out to. It helps establish rapport. I think it makes you sound extremely credible on the other end, and it shows that, you know, I've done a little research here. Meet me halfway, give me some time. You know, I want to just at least… just asking for 5 minutes to see if it's worth talking for the next 10. So understanding where you draw your confidence from, you know, for you all out there, it may be different, but I know for me, That 3x3 rule is just ingrained in my philosophy, and if I don't have it, I'm kind of like, oh no, I forgot to do the 3x3. Let me look it up real quick. But it just, it helps me so much going into my calls and my emails to understand a little bit more about the company or the prospect, and it allows me to speak, I think, intelligently and confidently about it to the other person I'm trying to engage with.

10:40 Scott Ingram: And Angela, what are a couple examples of what you might use in that, in that 3 facts?

10:46 Angela Kirkland: Yeah, so it's, it's super easy. I typically try to find something off their LinkedIn profile. I am a mid-market sales development rep, so most all of my prospects are on LinkedIn, number one, which is great. And number two, they're… these are typically people at larger companies, so they are constantly publishing content. They are very active, typically on LinkedIn, Twitter, social media. They have, sometimes they have their Twitter profiles linked to LinkedIn. So number one, I try to just scan and see if they've recently published any content or shared anything. Anything around sales development is great because then I can just relate it right back to SalesLoft. So that's typically the first thing. Another super easy one is just to see Hey, I just noticed they, they celebrated 3 years with their company. You know, that's, that's an easy piece, a thing to jot down and kind of build some rapport with someone. Maybe another one is that they're hiring for sales development reps on their website. I'll go to the careers page and see that they're hiring for sales executives. Like, that's a great sign of a growing company. Someone that's investing in their people and, you know, they're more likely to probably invest in technology if the company is doing well and they're hiring for salespeople. Because the larger, larger the company gets, sometimes the more, more help you need with kind of getting everyone on the same process. So those are a few just little like quick ones that I go to. The careers, anything that they've published, or maybe the company just got funding. Um, but those are a few things you can easily kind of find from the LinkedIn profile or, um, the company website.

12:37 Scott Ingram: Do you value one more than the other? So I heard you talk about there's some kind of human personal elements where you're trying to make a little bit more of a personal connection and then others are related to, uh, their company and maybe some specific things that are going on there. Do you value one of those things more than the other when it comes to developing that confidence and having something to connect around?

13:00 Angela Kirkland: Yes. So I, the order, kind of pecking order I go off of is number one, find something that relates to that person personally, but, you know, make sure you, it's business professional, right? You don't, maybe don't mention anything about their, their kids or anything like that. Something unique to that person. Second then would be the company. And then third would be the industry. So if you have absolutely nothing to go off of from the LinkedIn profile, from the website, try to find a piece of content on what's going on in their industry. But probably, you know, with that, the first one, you know, finding a personal kind of bullet point or nugget to kind of draw out and reference would be who you're connected to on LinkedIn. That's such an easy one. And I think, you know, the more you're in the sales development role, the more you should be connecting with thought leaders. And as you start to build up that kind of brand and database for yourself on LinkedIn, you'll see, like, I ping my CEO all the time. He's connected with a lot of folks on LinkedIn, and I'll ask him at least probably twice a week, do you know this guy personally? You know, do you have a phone number for him? And those are great ways to just open up the door. I mean, if they they see, uh, spoke to my CEO or referred by Kyle Porter, um, I can pretty much guarantee that's going to be an opened email.

14:28 Scott Ingram: Yeah, beautiful. And that's how we connected. I reached out to Kyle and said, hey, I want to, I want to talk to some great folks in the SDR space. And, uh, here we are.

14:36 Angela Kirkland: Yeah, absolutely. And that, I mean, that, that goes so perfectly into kind of my 3rd bullet point. And this one, you know, again, is kind of hard to quantify, but the more I thought about it, I was like, it's so important, and that's be resourceful. As an SDR, we have so many great resources at our fingertips. You've heard the old, you know, always be closing. I like to say always be connecting. And don't send someone just that quick little, I'd like to connect with you on LinkedIn. Send them a personalized note. Tell them why, you know, flatter them, stroke their ego. If you're selling into salespeople, like I am, I mean, they love that. And I think that's just a general rule, like anyone, you know, likes a compliment, right? So send them a quick note, hey, saw your LinkedIn profile, I'm extremely impressed with your security tenure, it'd be an honor to connect with you on LinkedIn and have you in my network. I mean, that's, I think that has a much higher likelihood of someone accepting than it does, I'd like to connect with you on LinkedIn. So, um, be, be resourceful. Always connect with folks on LinkedIn. I think it's going to open up doors. Even if I have a great conversation with a prospect and I don't get a meeting, um, I'm always asking, hey, I hope you don't mind. I just sent you a request to connect on LinkedIn. I know maybe now's not the right time for SalesLoft, but I'd love to connect on LinkedIn and, you know, see your journey at XYZ company. See if you ever move on. Hopefully we can keep in touch and, Most people are very receptive to that. And again, you know, it's great to utilize that for easy email introductions, easy, like quick personalized subject line, you know, mutual connection with. I use that all the time. And, you know, again, going back to like the thought leaders in your space, I think that's so important. I've, I've gotten a lot of really great prospecting from when thought leaders in your space write posts. They're typically probably very active on social. So maybe going through an article that they liked, looking at all of the other likes, people that liked that post, people that commented on that post, those are probably decision makers or influencers in your industry. Make sure to pay attention to those. Like, and I know it can, can be really hard and you can get caught up kind of in your, your everyday to day you know, workflow. But I think it's also important to understand, try that, see if it gets you anywhere, see if you get some good results. And if it does, like it has for me, then keep doing it. Make sure you, you know, if you stumble upon something like that, like make sure to take the time, stop what you're doing and just knock it out. It's a great, great way to build rapport again and have an easy kind of warmer introduction. Hey, I saw we were both checking out this article. I loved what you said about, you know, this. So those are just some, you know, easy ways to be resourceful. And as an SDR too, I'm also… we set up meetings for our account executive team who does the kind of original call and then hopefully, you know, nurtures the relationship and closes the business from there. So it can be very, you know, transactional almost. Like I'm there to get to, to get a meeting, get in and get out. But it's great when you can actually like partner with the account executives on strategic accounts or understand, hey, you know, this, this was a great company, but it was the wrong guy. Let's, let's go after, you know, they said we need to go after this person. So the more collaborative and communicative you can be with your account executive team, the more opportunity it's going to give you as an SDR to book meetings.

18:36 Scott Ingram: Angela, that's awesome. And you have set up my transition perfectly because it's at this point in the show that I always give a shout out to our inaugural sponsor who literally makes this show possible. Uh, and that is my friends at Nudge. Nudge is a modern sales platform that leverages relationship strength to help you find and keep your best customers. So just like Angela's talking about with always be connecting, Nudge is a free tool, um, that's going to hook into your LinkedIn profile, into your calendar and your email to help you understand who you're communicating with, and it's going to let you know when one of your connections is getting mentioned in the news or has posted an article, sort of beyond just the core LinkedIn functionality. So, super valuable, helps me a lot. The price is absolutely right. So, I hope you'll go check out Nudge, and they're at neednudge.com. That's N-E-E-D-N-U-D-G-E.com. So Angela, talk about, um, your role and how you got to number 1. So you're a, you're a team lead. I mean, you, you have some kind of unique elements to your title. So just talk about all of those pieces.

19:47 Angela Kirkland: Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things I love about SalesLoft and, you know, again, was another big reason of why I chose to be an SDR at this company is because they want to set you up for success. So when you first start out in the role, you are assigned basically a mentor. And it's great. It's a peer, someone that's been in your role that's more senior, someone that management feels has proved themselves. They feel comfortable with that person basically training new hires, doing cold call coaching with them, showing them best practices because that person has, you know, earn their stripes, essentially. So I am now in that role. I'm on the other side of the coin where I am a team lead. So I, you know, help out with, with the onboarding, help out with a lot of the training. And it's, it's part of our kind of career matrix. That, that type of stuff is not for everyone. You know, I really enjoy it. I think it's a great way to get to know your new teammates and really kind of build a professional relationship. And I'm still very close with my mentor who's moved on to the account executive role. But it's not for everyone. So it's an option if you'd like to go down that path, or you can continue just to be a senior SDR, but your quota expectations do go up. So that was something that I wanted to… I was like, okay, you know, I really, I really like this training and learning experience, I'd like to go that route. So that's where I kind of am at SalesLoft. I, you know, still have a full quota to manage, but you do get pulled into more of those meetings and more of those things that come up, you know, questions, issues. So it does pull at your time a little bit, but I mean, again, it goes all back to just understanding your day and the role that you signed up for and You can kind of, kind of work around that. So I just, I started that role probably about maybe 7 months ago is when I was, was first eligible for that.

22:05 Scott Ingram: And Angela, talk about your path and kind of the journey to getting to the top.

22:11 Angela Kirkland: Yeah. So it was not, not easy. I think like any, any salesperson, you, you know, you can relate. Sales is a roller coaster and I, I wear my emotions on my sleeve, man. I mean, I, it's something I know I need to work on, you know, personally, but it's, it's very tough. But I've always had that, that in mind that if you, you know, if you keep your head down, you have that consistent work ethic, you know, essentially the more luck and more opportunity you're going to create for yourself. So I think my first few months, I'll be honest, at SalesLoft, I had, had a lot of success in terms of quantity. However, the quality side of my meetings I think were lacking. And that's something they started to realize across the board for our team. So in February, they shifted and we kind of took on this account-based model. You know, you hear that a lot in sales development. It's very buzzwordy. But basically what that means is we identified, went through our target customer base, and we found, you know, our ICP. And we said, all right, these are the…

23:27 Scott Ingram: define ICP. I know what it is, but for those listening.

23:30 Angela Kirkland: Yes. So it's the ideal customer or client profile. So it's basically just a set after we went through who our customers were, who the most successful customers were, what do they all have in common? For us, it was SaaS companies, you know, at this size with this technology stack. So, you know, we sell to Salesforce users. So that was, you know, something immediately we started to implement on the SDR side in terms of kind of tightening up those qualification parameters and understanding what's qualified to send over to the AE team. So that was, that was a very big adjustment to me. I had been used to, you know, having 40 to 45 meetings completed a month, and now this was going to go down to 20. So that was a big slap in the face for me to understand, oh God, can I do this? Can I, Can I handle, you know, the extra stress of the qualifications, but, you know, still try to manage a number. So that month was, was very interesting for me. I think I learned a lot about myself again. It's, you know, change, which is inevitable. So it was a great experience to go through that. And I didn't hit February. I didn't get to that number. And it was very disheartening. Luckily, my company, you know, they, they trusted me and 2 others that kind of made this move for our organization to feel it out and to learn from, you know, why we didn't, why we didn't hit our number that month. And we all hit the next month. So it was a great, great learning experience to be kind of down and out. But then, you know, we all rose above the next month and continued to hit month after that. And then we, implemented it across the team. I'd say in, I think April or May it was. So we kind of paved the way and it was definitely very rocky. I'm not gonna lie. I was doubting these changes. I didn't understand why they were happening, but now looking back, I'm so glad they did because they were pivotal for the success of our business. So yeah, again, it was not, not always straight on the up and up, but it was a very, a very good experience. Um, to have that kind of change. And, um, I think it's, it's good to mix up, you know, your expectations in the SDR role. Um, because you want to continue to evolve and innovate and the industry is going to always be changing. So, um, it's nice that our, our company recognized, you know, we should probably change with it as well.

26:17 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And I think it goes back to, it's, it's the quality versus quantity, right? You can have 40, 50 meetings a month, but if they're not converting and they're not turning into the right kinds of customers, that's, that's not helpful for anybody. It's, It's oftentimes better to have higher quality, a little bit less volume, but, but increase that conversion. And hopefully what's coming out the bottom is, uh, is higher levels of success. Angela, talk about, you mentioned basically the emotional rollercoaster. How, how do you manage through that? That's, that's a question that comes up a lot.

26:50 Angela Kirkland: Yeah, it's, um, it's very tough, but I can tell you I've come a long way with it. Um, I, so I was in a recruiting role before this. So I was, I was used to rejection. I was calling software engineers who are highly sought out now. Um, and they have, they probably get 30 recruiting calls a day. So, I mean, it was very similar in terms of, I was used to that. I was used to getting told no or hung up on, but it was still, I don't know, it still kind of upset me when I first started the role. I would let myself get really down on it. And again, this goes back to the confidence thing. I started to notice that that would seep into the rest of my calls for the day. And I would look at the dashboard in Salesforce and see, you know, all my other colleagues that were getting meetings and was so hard on myself. And I had a moment at the end of the day where I was like, okay, you know, you can only control so much. And attitude is, is, is one of those things. And I just started to kind of take the mindset of it's inevitable that you're going to get more nos than yes in sales. That's just the name of the game. That's what you sign up for. You know, anyone that tells you different, I would love to talk to them because I think they're full of it. But so I just started to adopt that. And I think I literally, I put this in a video for SalesLoft and it's the song by Jay-Z, On to the Next. I literally, when someone tells me no, like I sing that song in my head and it just, it makes me laugh because it's the market's so huge. I mean, you have one person that tells you no, you have probably 3 other people you can call within that company. Or you have, you know, 40 other companies that you can go and try to convert. So I just, I try to, number one, not hold myself too much to, you know, my counterparts. If I don't have a meeting one day and my associate has 4, you know, don't let that get, get to me. Just again, keep your head down, keep working, do, do the things you know you need to do and everything will fall in line. Um, and again, just stay, stay positive, keep a good attitude, laugh at yourself. I mean, who cares if you get hung up on, who cares if you get told no, uh, it happens literally all day, every day, um, to millions of sales professionals around the world. And it's just part of the job. So you've got to understand that and embrace it.

29:31 Scott Ingram: Nice. So how did this adventure start? You talked about, um, starting in more of a technical recruiting role. How did you get into sales in the beginning?

29:40 Angela Kirkland: Yeah. So it was funny. We were, my company actually recruited roles for SalesLoft. When I first moved to Atlanta, you know, I'm not sure if you're familiar, Pardot was all I kind of heard about. That was the biggest technology company. It really kind of put us on the map with the acquisition from ExactTarget, and then Salesforce acquired ExactTarget. So I just feel like there was a lot of really good buzz around that company. I started to look into it and found that David Cummings also invested in SalesLoft. And so I started to go to some events at the Atlanta Tech Village, which is a local incubator type area here in Atlanta for startups. To grow and network in a coworking space. Um, so I started to go to more events. Um, I saw Kyle speak, our CEO, at many of these, and he was just incredibly inspiring. I said to myself, I want to work for that, that guy. He, he has so much charisma and passion for the mission at this company. And I knew from recruiting for SalesLoft that the culture was was out of the world. You know, I knew that I would get so much hands-on mentorship training experience. It would be, it would be fun. It'd be hard. I'd be challenged like I never had before. And, you know, I was, I was really wanting to get into a sales role that, that wasn't really possible at my recruiting company that I was working at. So I toyed around with, you know, do I want to go do sales at another recruiting firm? I really, I really like it, but I don't see myself in that long term. So I knew, you know, software sales from just my kind of immediate attraction to Pardot, that that's where I wanted to be. So just kind of connecting all the dots and meeting Kyle and meeting other coworkers at various networking events, getting out in the community. I mean, that's, that's how I got my job. It's so much about who you know and how you, how you can tell your story.

31:58 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Great stuff. And let's talk about the other end of that story, cause this is exciting too. What's, what's next for you?

32:04 Angela Kirkland: Yeah. So I am so excited. I am moving over to an account executive role next month. Um, my colleague Jordan Arrighetti and I are moving over together. Um, we have been number 1 and number 2 my whole tenure at SalesLoft. So I'm so excited to go through that transition with someone that, you know, I've become extremely close with, but that's also, you know, we have a very unique relationship in that we hold each other accountable. We're, we're competitive with each other, but not to the point of each other's detriment, which I think is something really special. And I'm sure that SalesLoft is going to, is going to utilize that. They knew what they were doing when they moved us over together, both together, because they're, they're going to get the best out of both of us in that role. Um, so moving over next month, I, you know, couldn't be more excited. Um, I've done, done well in the SDR role, but I'm excited to see what I've got, you know, closing and, um, you know, carrying a bag as they say.

33:10 Scott Ingram: That's exciting. And talk a little bit about maybe just the structure of SalesLoft, because I think the challenge that I've heard from a lot of SDRs is they, they kind of get stuck. Right? Most people don't sign up for being an SDR for the rest of their lives. It is a step in their sales journey, and you're obviously progressing through that journey relatively quickly. Talk about how that works, especially there, because I think you guys have a really unique answer to this.

33:42 Angela Kirkland: Right? Yeah, absolutely. So again, you know, I knew that I wanted to be in sales. It was very important For me to, I think, to be the best AE, if you start as an SDR, you're going to have so much more knowledgeable experience. I've seen it time and time again from when, you know, people move over to the AE role from the SDR team. And then when we hire people from the outside, I agree, you should have a mix of both. But in terms of the confidence and the product knowledge, it is, you know, so much stronger from those SDRs that, that have moved over. So when, you know, we hire an SDR at SalesLoft, we want you to be in sales. You know, this is not a type of role where, oh, I just want to come work a 9 to 5 at a cool startup. You need to be hungry. You need to understand, you know, that you're going to put your time in. It's going to be a valuable foundational learning experience for you. But eventually, you know, everyone should want to get to that full sales role. That's, that's kind of who we hire for and the mold that we're trying to attract. So, so part of that is laying out a career matrix, right? So when I first started, it was, it didn't matter how long you had been with the company. It was, you know, once you hit this number, this is what you're eligible for. We are in the process of changing that around. As I mentioned, with, you know, the transition to account-based sales development earlier this year, that's, you know, our quota has gone down. So we're, you know, realigning some of those numbers right now. But the fact that we have a career matrix is very powerful. Because salespeople, like, that's, that's something that kept me motivated. And salespeople are all about expectations. So understanding, okay, if I, you know, you're, you're going to hold up your end of the deal when I come through with this, and this is, you know, what, what's going to be available for me, or I'm going to be at that level when I can interview for an AE position, assuming that, you know, there is one open and I'm, you know, I'm wanted on that team. So I think having a career matrix and being upfront with your employees around the expectation of timeline for the role is very important and, and to keep them motivated, to keep them, you know, hungry and continuing to go after a bigger goal.

36:22 Scott Ingram: And I think you talked about in our first conversation, there being, um, some recognition parts of that process too, right? So obviously it's, it's not an immediate journey that you're going to work here for 3 months and voilà, you'll be an AE. It's, it's a longer journey than that, but there were some points along the way. Where you are getting recognized and know that you're making good progress.

36:42 Angela Kirkland: Yes. Yes. I'm so glad you brought that up. Um, yes, they're like little mini micro promotions and that, um, that goes over very well with me because, um, every, you know, every so often once you get to this milestone, um, you get a raise, you get a title change. Um, so I started out on, you know, the SMB team. I'm now a mid-market. SDR, which I have a lower quota, but I'm going after, you know, bigger, bigger fish. And eventually we'd also like to work it where the more senior members of our team can transition to an inbound role, which right now it's kind of flip-flopped. You start out maybe inbound, you know, right out of school, no experience, and then you can work your way up to outbound and then you can work your way up to AE. And so we're looking at actually like kind of flip-flopping that, but there's a, there's a lot of different career paths in terms of mid-market. You know, I'm sure we will start to break out our team into some, some type of territory alignment. So that will be exciting for the team just to recognize, you know, once I get here, I can be eligible for this. And, you know, I get a little mini promotion and raise. I think that's, It's really important to boost that confidence, um, individually.

38:03 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And you said you have a lower quota. Talk about what, what does that mean? I assume that that has to do with kind of the number of meetings and things like that, right?

38:11 Angela Kirkland: Yes. So the way our quota is measured at SalesLoft is for meetings completed per month. Um, so we also have, you know, quarterly goals as well. Um, and then we break that down into what our weekly goals should look like, what our daily goals should look like. All to get us to that, that monthly number, which I'm sure, you know, every other sales organization has some, some type of guidelines like that too. Um, so for a mid-market SDR, we have basically 2 areas where we're judged on quota, and that is the meetings completed and then also the opportunity or seat size potential. So we need to hit both of those to get paid, um, basically our full, full quota. We could hit one or the other, but we won't receive the full amount. So for us, that looks like 11 mid-market completed demos per month with a seat size of 261 potential seats that we're adding to the pipeline for our account executives. And it's very doable. We… something I think is unique about our team is we have a mid-market pod and basically it's just myself, another mid-market SDR named Blanche. And then we have Jordan is doing some mid-market accounts and we feed up to 2 specific AEs. And this has been great. It allows for so much cross-collaboration and, you know, interdepartment kind of communication. So I learned a lot about the AE role just from working with, you know, these 2 AEs exclusively the past few months. But it's also, you know, they have… they're on a different quota as well because the bigger deals are going to take longer to close. They're going to have more departments that need to get involved, and it's in their best interest to, you know, stay on those. We found before that The AEs were maybe neglecting the bigger deals because they needed to hit their quota and they needed to get these, you know, little fish in to sign right now. And, you know, they weren't thinking bigger picture long-term. So that, that's really helped. Our SMB team is responsible for 21 completed meetings per month. They are not measured on seat size. The only thing that counts for them is the opportunity has to be at least 3 sales professionals that would use SalesLoft. So they have 21 completed meetings with a minimum qualification of 3 users, you know, per meeting.

41:03 Scott Ingram: Excellent. So let's pivot a little bit and talk about some of your routines and habits. You already mentioned, you know, one day a week you're getting into the coffee shop for a couple of hours just to avoid the distractions. But walk, walk me through how you're structuring your day and your week. So your alarm goes off. What time does that happen? What happens from there?

41:24 Angela Kirkland: So it goes, it goes off about 5:45 every morning. I'm a snoozer, so I like to snooze it at least probably 2 or 3 times. Um, I probably get out of, get out of bed, you know, 6:15. I try to be into the office by 7. I like that quiet time. I like that time to, you know, do what I need to do. I'm the most efficient in the morning. So kind of those like admin tasks or anything I can help to kind of set up my day, I can knock that out very easily in the morning as opposed to in the afternoon. You know, I would get distracted. It'd be very hard for me to focus on that type of stuff. So I want to do all of that work. So as soon as 8 o'clock, you know, 8:05 comes around, I can start capitalizing on working hours. I can call people on the West Coast, or excuse me, on the East Coast. And, you know, as soon as 11 o'clock hits again, I'm calling people on the West Coast. So I'm really trying to maximize the working hours you have in the day. For phone calls, for emails. And then, you know, taking care of the admin, updating stuff in Salesforce, prospecting, all that stuff I can do on my time, you know, early in the morning or after, after work, after I've done with my calls and emails for the day. So that's kind of how I structure it. I do, you know, like, I try to take a lunch every day. I typically work 7 to 5:30 or 6. So that's a, that's a long day for me to actually be in the office. But so again, I need, need to take a break at lunch and just get out, go on a walk or do something. And then if I'm done with lunch a little early, I like to come back and prospect. Don't get a lot of people on the phone during lunch hour. So just from personal experience, I know I can take that time again to do some more type of admin work. Um, and then my, my goal for the next day is to just stop what I'm doing at, let's say, 4 or 4:30 and set myself up for the next day. This is something that I struggle to make myself do every day. Um, but I have noticed such a huge difference in my anxiety level if I'm able to do that. So if I can stop what I'm doing at 4:00, 4:30, figure out, okay, what do I need to tee up for tomorrow? Who do I need to put in the funnel? Who do I need to prospect? Let me go ahead and get them teed up and ready to go. And I, I push everyone into Salesforce and then I push everyone from Salesforce into SalesLoft Cadence, which is the platform that I work out of 90% of my time as an SDR. So I know if I can do all that, get everyone teed up in Cadence and even go ahead and start to write some of my emails and schedule send them to go out the next day, the next morning, man, I will walk into the office feeling like a million bucks. I will feel so good. I feel so prepared. Sometimes, you know, the days get away from you. You know, things come up. I'm not able to do that. I feel very behind coming in the morning. And I hate that feeling. So it's, it's really important to me to try to remember just to stop what you're doing, set yourself up for the next day. I know for me, you know, that, that plays a lot into my emotional and my kind of mental preparedness for the day, which as I've discussed, gives me confidence. So it's, it's really critical for me to, to kind of stick to that.

45:16 Scott Ingram: It's interesting. I think there's another theme really starting to develop here, particularly around just planning for and being really intentional about each day, or at least at the week level. You know, when I talked with Debe Rapson, she talked about, you know, Sunday she would think about, okay, what do I want to accomplish this week and blocking out time and making sure those things were in place. But, you know, talking with the previous SDR that I interviewed with Jennifer Linker, same thing. You know, she started her morning and it was, what's my goal for the day? How am I going to get there? How am I going to prepare for this? And it's me too. Too, right? It's when I, I have a very, very specific morning process that I sort of triage everything and understand, you know, what's on the calendar, what sort of time do I have available, um, to work on some of these other bigger things to move, uh, opportunities forward. And man, if I don't get that time, just like you, I'm, I'm screwed. I'm screwed. I mean, I'm just so behind it. I'm so reactionary and I'm not in control. Like it sounds like you, you get yourself to be when you take that time at the end of your day each day.

46:27 Angela Kirkland: Yes. Yes. I get, get so worked up and then, you know, I think sometimes it, it affects my attitude. You know, maybe I close myself off and I'm not, not as receptive to the others in the room. And, um, it doesn't, it doesn't come across as the most supportive. So, um, again, that's, that's important for me to, as a leader in the room, I need, I want to maintain that for my team. I want to be a good resource for them. And in order for me to do that, I, yeah, I have to feel prepared in the morning or I've just, my anxiety levels just go through the roof.

47:02 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So let's dig into, I mean, at this point I kind of like to talk about the tool sets and obviously for you, a huge part of that is SalesLoft. Talk about, um, I mean, what does a typical cadence look like for you? How, what, what have you found? For you personally works best in terms of structuring that outreach and really driving to those meetings?

47:26 Angela Kirkland: Right. So it totally depends on your industry. But I mean, the phone is my best friend. I would so much rather pick up the phone and even talk to another salesperson and just try to find out, all right, is this account qualified? Is it even worth me going after? You know, even if you can't get the decision maker on the phone, there's so much, you know, extra that you can gather for yourself and, and make your, you know, make a stronger case going into the next call. Hey, I spoke with so-and-so, understand you guys are using X, you know, this is how we can help, you know, whatever it may be. Just for me, it's really important to try to find out some piece of information from a phone call before I move on from that prospect. So I structure my day around heavy call activity. I have in my cadence, I work about 50 mid-market accounts at a given time, and I'm going to work at least 5 contacts from that company before I move on from them. So So that's 50, 50 accounts, at least 5 contacts. And then I'm going to reach out to each contact at least probably 17 times over the course of a month.

48:52 Scott Ingram: And Angela, are you working those contacts in parallel? Like, are you reaching out to all 5 at the same time or are you doing it sort of in sequence? Like, I'm going to start with this person. If that doesn't work out, I'll move on to the next person. How do you do that?

49:05 Angela Kirkland: Yeah. Yeah. Great question. So I'm doing it in sequence. I'm kind of like, you know, tiering or toggling back and forth. So right around the time where one contact, one contact gets to maybe the 5th day step for me, I'm adding another one in there. And I have that actually as a step in my workflow to help me remember to go back and add someone else. And if I, if I haven't gotten anywhere, the goal here obviously would be just to get, you know, get, get the meeting on the first call, first prospect, but that doesn't always happen. So, having a game plan of, you know, what to do when, when you don't convert that first, second, third, fourth prospect. It's such a great and gratifying experience when you can get, like, you can get a meeting on that fifth person. It just, you know, it works for SalesLoft. It works for our process. And it's, it's extremely gratifying just to know the process is working and You know, you're, you're talking to us now. But so throughout that cadence of those 17 touches, it's heavy phone call. And, you know, I, again, it's getting a piece of information before you move on from that call. So I call, let's say I have this person's direct dial, which we use ZoomInfo for direct dials. Amazing. I literally felt like Christmas morning when we got it. It was awesome. Highly recommend it to anyone that's, you know, making a ton of calls. And again, Scott, I want to just emphasize that I'm very intentional about I'm calling. So I don't want you to think that I'm making 100 dials a day and it's, you know, a sweatshop over here at SalesLoft. It's very intentional and it's about calling the right people creatively and, you know, more times instead of, you know, I'm going to call 100 people only 2 times and give up. So that's, that's kind of where my energy focuses. So I make one call into a prospect, I have their direct dial, they don't answer. Okay, well, instead of moving on, I'm going to call the main line and try to get a gatekeeper to give me their cell phone, or I'm going to call into the HR line on the main line and act like I'm confused. And see if they can give me, you know, another direct line or see if they're even still with the company or they're the right person. I mean, just talk to these people, see what you can figure out. And once you're satisfied with, you know, a piece of information, then you, then I try to move on. So it's heavy phone calls, but they're more strategic like that. I'm not just banging out a bunch of, you know, random dials. So yeah, pretty, pretty strategic in the calling. I do very personalized day one emails to prospects. I think, you know, they're the… that's your first shot, right? Like I send an email to a prospect and then I call them. So that way they have a… hopefully they have a little bit familiarity with, with us. I give them a chance to respond. If they don't get back to me by that afternoon, You bet it, I'm calling you. You know, I'm calling you up and figuring out what went on. Or at least we're trying to set up a call, a 5-minute discovery call. So that's, I mean, that's pretty much it. And then I also throw in a LinkedIn InMail. That's, you know, something I've used as a last resort, kind of once they get towards the bottom of my cadence and I'm not getting anywhere, I'll, you know, shoot them an InMail. But it's also like, it's great seeing where the, you know, your prospect is active. If someone's very active on Twitter, like that's where I'm going to go communicate with them. I'm going to like their tweets. You know, I'm not going to be creepy about it, but I'm going to try to communicate with them in their area. So just understanding what channels and avenues you have available to you is great. We had, this was awesome. My coworker Blanche, she noticed that a prospect had his Gchat name on LinkedIn. So she Gchatted him and he gave her a meeting. I mean, it was amazing. And he's like, yeah, I've never had anyone do this before. And you know, I, I, he gave her the meeting and was open to talking because he loved the creativity and it never happened. One of like the best memories ever. At SalesLoft is I wrote, I wrote an email to a prospect. I think he was from Sweden maybe. I literally went to Google Translator and wrote the whole email in Swedish and he responded and loved it. And you know, it was a great, a great opportunity for us to close business and he took that because he, no one had ever done that to him before. And it's just something I saw on his LinkedIn profile that he was fluent in and, you know, thought it might stand out in his inbox. So doing things like that, um, but not every other SDR is doing, um, will get you, you know, a long way.

54:27 Scott Ingram: Now, did you have to call out like, okay, now I'm doing this to be creative. Please don't respond in Swedish because that's really not going to work.

54:34 Angela Kirkland: Oh, he did respond. He responded in Swedish and it was like their time zone. It was crazy. I was like, man, he's making me really work for this one. I sent over the invite and then I just responded back in English. I was like, you know, I'm a little rusty here. Let's… I think this is the time that you proposed. So yeah, but I mean, that's happened so many times to members of our team. My colleague Peter actually He thought of the idea and it worked for him and it's like totally copied him. And I mean, it's great. Like anytime you see that and on a LinkedIn profile, it's like, it's bingo.

55:12 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And I want to come back to like some, some of the more of those just interesting success stories where the whole game is you talk about being resourceful as one of your key things. And I think you have to be, you just have to be creative and Yeah, they put Gchat up there, they put Skype. I bet nobody pings them through those channels. But gosh, if you list it on your profile, you know, you're probably on there. But I don't want to forget about… you mentioned something earlier about reaching out to somebody in sales. And this is something that I think tons of people overlook, right? It's hard to get people on the phone. But you know who picks up their phone an awful lot is sales.

55:54 Angela Kirkland: You're right.

55:54 Scott Ingram: And they under… they have a pretty good sense of their organization. They know what's going on. And it's probably even more direct for you, right? Because you're, you're trying to get into, uh, the sales department. But I think for anybody, almost any role, you can reach out, connect with a salesperson. You have something to connect on because, well, hey, we're both in sales. And just say, hey, look, I'm trying to get in front of your company, you know, helping understand, are these the right people? You know, what do they care about? What, what channels do they prefer? Can you make an introduction? I mean, there's so many things you can do with that. And again, it's one of those creative things that we just, we don't think about enough.

56:35 Angela Kirkland: Right. Absolutely. It's, it was so funny. So at, at SalesLoft, we did an exercise called, um, Gallup StrengthsFinder. I don't know if, if any of you are familiar with it. It was amazing. It, it, like opened my eyes to so much of why I'm wired like I am. And basically gives you 5 kind of strengths about yourself. And one of mine was Woo, W-O-O, and it's winning others over. And it was so like, it was just like a light bulb went off in my head. And that's, that's why I like calling into these sales lines or calling in and talking to other people and like getting them to help me and give me some information. Like, I thrive off of that. And it's, it just makes, you know, it makes so much sense and it can help you from going down a path that you don't need to be going down or trying to call someone that's not even there anymore. I mean, it's, it's great. And again, you, like you said, you immediately have a connection with another salesperson. And I think, I think they respect the hustle and they, you know, respect what you're trying to do. And a lot of times they'll, they'll give you what you need and just say, hey, don't, It didn't come from me. So that's, you know, that's, that's fine. But yeah, it's such a good point about, about being resourceful. I had a, this actually just happened this week. This is crazy. I'm, I'm excited to tell it. So I had a prospect at a company I was going after, really excited about the account. And we, we needed to, he agreed to some time. We talked, It was a very brief kind of discovery call on my part. I'll say I didn't do that great of a job uncovering a lot of pain. It was kind of one of those ones, all the SDRs out there, you can relate to those quick hit calls where you talk for maybe 3 or 4 minutes and they agree to some time. And when it came time for that meeting, the guy rescheduled, then it got rescheduled again and we were going back and forth. It was awesome. Told him, I was like, hey, I already hit quota, but you'd help me break a company record if you hopped on this call. Cause I get measured on sales qualified leads and he loved it. He was super open and receptive to it. We couldn't, we were going back and forth. We could never find a time that worked for my account executive. So I was kind of bummed, but you know, I was like, okay, this guy, like, You know, we connected on the sales thing. Like, he understands that. And for probably the past month, I've been still trying to go after him. I have heard nothing. It's been crickets. Hasn't even viewed my emails. I think he knows who I am when I'm calling. Nothing. And I was so bummed. And I got to thinking, okay, and I noticed that he's connected with a colleague that's actually a SalesLoft customer and someone that I set up on a demo. I knew they bought, you know, I wasn't his sales rep throughout, you know, their whole experience, but I thought he would remember me. I reached out to the AE and I told him the situation. I said, hey, would you mind if I reached out to one of our customers and asked him to make an introduction or just basically give this prospect a little nudge Say, hey, remember, remember Angela at SalesLoft? We're a customer. They're great. You should talk to these guys. So I did, and the prospect agreed to it, and he wrote me back and said, yes, you know, he's happy to set up the call with you. He'll look for your note. So I was like, you know, great. This was 2 weeks ago. So I said, great, you know, awesome. I'm gonna get this guy back on the hook. Well, 2 weeks later, nothing. You know, again, he's not answering my calls. He's not getting back to me on email. I'm so puzzled. So I went and found someone in our company that was from North Carolina. This is where that prospect was. Now with SalesLoft Cadence, we have the ability to, we have a built-in dialer in our platform and it can match the area code of the prospect that you're calling into. But this guy already knew my number, right? Like it was the same North Carolina that populated So I went and found someone in my company that was from North Carolina, asked him on Tuesday. I was like, hey, can I borrow your cell phone? Like, I'm just going to try to call this guy one last time. He answered and we set up a meeting and it was like, oh, like the best feeling ever. Just to feel like I did it. Like it worked. And it was, it was a bumpy road, but I mean, you got to get creative like that on stuff. So reaching out to customers, like, you know, trying different numbers, all that stuff, it will pay off.

1:01:31 Scott Ingram: Yeah, for sure. And Angela, talk about, I mean, one of the things that I think most in the SDR role are measured on, it's not just how many meetings you set, it's how many meetings actually happen. So how do you manage that process to make sure that that meeting you set up actually happens?

1:01:48 Angela Kirkland: Yeah. Yeah. That's, That's a great question and something we are constantly evaluating is our show rates. Because that's one thing that, you know, it just infuriates, I think, the AE team when they have a full schedule of, let's say, you know, 8 meetings scheduled that week and only 2 go off like that. That puts them in a really bad position. And that's what we're here for is to help set them up and, you know, make their job easier. So that's something we're very, you know, closely tracking is our show-up rate. But obviously things happen, you know, people have lives, they have emergencies come up, they're going to be late for meetings. They have bosses too, just like us, that are going to pull them into different situations. So here for me, I, we send calendar invites for these calls. At the absolute minimum, I'm going to make sure that person has accepted. If they haven't accepted, let's say I book a meeting today, that person doesn't accept by the end of the day, I'm calling them this afternoon and I'm saying, hey, we spoke this morning, I sent the invite over, I'm reconfirming it got to your inbox. You know, do you mind checking right now on the phone? To me, that's just very important. That's the least you can do as an SDR is get it accepted on the calendar. Now, depending on how far out you set that meeting, you know, we found that if you, if you set a meeting and it's set to go off within the next 2 business days, the odds of it actually going off are very high. It starts to atrophy after that. So if I set a meeting today for December 16th, I mean, that's a joke, right? Like no way that guy's going to show up. It's a month, you know, essentially a month from now unless there's, you know, it's an onsite meeting or, you know, there's, there's a very good reason for it. So we try to not set meetings that are over, you know, 2 weeks out. That's kind of our rule of thumb. And then also I like to call people and reconfirm meetings. I think sometimes sending an email is an easy out for someone. To say, oh, something came up, can't make it. Like, I'd rather pick up the phone, get a cell phone for them, get a direct dial. When you're booking the meeting, ask them for it. And then that's also, again, you can see how receptive they are and how you can kind of judge to understand, all right, is this person really interested? Are they going to hop on? Like, they have a problem giving me their direct dial. Like, they don't, they obviously don't trust me. The odds of them showing up to this meeting are pretty slim. So, I like to call them typically the day of or the day before and just reconfirm if it's been booked out for a little while. But if it's something I've booked within the past 2 days, I leave it alone. If it's, if it's accepted on the calendar, I let it lie. And then I'm standing by when that meeting goes off. And I have my AE Slack me and let me know if they're not on 5 minutes into the call and then I call them. And they also get a reminder just from Gmail that pops up 10 minutes before the call. Just, you know, I think it shows up on your phone and in your email that, hey, you've got a call in 10 minutes. So that's, that's really my best practice is I try to avoid the email, you know, reconfirmation because I think it gives people an easy out to say something came up. But if you can get someone on the phone, you typically get, you know, their You know, they don't have time to think of a lie or, um, and if they do have something that goes, that's coming up, you can easily reschedule it and just knock it out right then and there.

1:05:38 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. I think there's some pretty interesting best practices in there. I mean, for me, and my meetings are a little bit different because the majority are not cold kind of first meetings, right? A lot of these are, I know who I'm meeting with, but there's nothing more frustrating than I've got an hour blocked on my calendar and I'm going to sit on a phone line for 5 or 7 or 8 minutes and go, shoot. This isn't happening, and I don't know what's going on. So my personal best practice is part of that morning process that I do is I will confirm all of my meetings through the day. In my case, it's it's typically an email, but I would much rather know if this isn't going to happen. Let me know. Let's get it rescheduled. Right? I've got other things that I can do with that time, and I'd like to be more proactive than that. And I think your idea is also really smart about using. That touch as an opportunity to get another touchpoint. So any onsite meeting that I have, I'm always asking for, hey, I'm sure you're going to be running around that day. What's your mobile number so we can text each other should anything come up? You know, those, those kinds of things where, okay, great. Now I've got another channel and I'm not at the whim of the receptionist in the lobby. And, you know, they're not going to be able to chase them effectively because reality is like How many of us actually get a chance to sit at our desks all day? No, we're, we're moving from conference room to conference room and things are, things are happening.

1:07:02 Angela Kirkland: Exactly.

1:07:03 Scott Ingram: So Angela, what does your information diet look like? What are you reading? What are you listening to? What are you watching?

1:07:10 Angela Kirkland: Yeah, so I will be very upfront and say that I, I'm… this is another area I need to work on for myself. Our COO and CEO are so awesome with constantly reading and recommending books to us. I mean, we have a weekly standup or like Scrum, our whole company, and we talk about a highlight and I can guarantee either one of them, the CEO or the COO, will reference a quote in a book they're reading or something, you know, that that really stood out to them. And I know that's something I need, need to be better at. So with the transition to AE, I'm, you know, on a ramp quota. So I've said, okay, I need to take this time. I'm going to do some reading. I'm going to figure out, you know, really try to utilize some of these resources that are available to me. But so right now I'm reading The Challenger Sale, which I Just Started, which I heard is great. It's a few years old. I'm also reading, I picked up, I think it's like The Little Red Book of Selling. This is like my kind of book. It is. It's like a little…

1:08:23 Scott Ingram: is that Gitomer?

1:08:25 Angela Kirkland: Yes. Yes. And it's perfect. It's like in the form of little digestible tips and it's meant for something to be read and read and read. It's, it's very interactive. It's in like bite-sized chunks. I mean, it's perfect for like a salesperson, right? And I really enjoyed that so far. But in terms of just kind of like, you know, every, everyday stuff, I mean, I feel like I just, I need to read the news, right? Like aside of sales stuff, like as a decent human being, I need to understand what's going on in the world. So every morning, you know, checking the news, I get this little synthesized news source called The Skimm sent to my inbox every morning. It's great. It, you know, kind of scans what's going on in the world. It's non-biased, you know, non-political party swayed. So I mean, I read that. I just try to keep a baseline understanding of what's going on in the world with CNN as well. And LinkedIn, I mean, I try to read an article a day off LinkedIn. That's my goal. If I, again, I have a lot of prospects who are sharing content, so that's It's self-serving in many fashions, is hopefully I can reference that article and utilize that to get a meeting. But also it's very informative about, you know, best practice industry standards, what's going on in our realm. So I'm trying to be better on the book side of the house. But I think if you can read an article a day that's published on LinkedIn that's relevant to your industry or your prospects, You know, that's, that's not too much to ask. That's something everyone can, can probably fit in a 10-minute, 10-15 minute window in their day to do.

1:10:12 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that makes sense. Angela, do you have… how would you describe your style, and, and do you think that contributes to your success?

1:10:23 Angela Kirkland: Yes. So I… it's, it's so interesting to me that myself and another female have been 1 and 2 in the entire, you know, our entire tenure of the SDR world. And it's super interesting because, you know, sadly most of the sales leadership is male in the companies that we're prospecting. And again, going back to that winning others over, that woo quality of mind, like I, you know, really am passionate about women in sales and, um, I, you know, tend to be, I can be challenging, challenging. I can be aggressive at times to male prospects. And I think that works in my favor. I've tried it with female prospects and it does not go over well. So when I'm talking to female VP of sales, female SDR directors, you know, I'm going to have to let them take the reins. I may get, I may get pushed around a little bit, but, but when I'm talking to male prospects, you know, that's, that's an area I think that really helps me and my style is I'm very, very nice. I try to bring a lot of energy in the conversation, but the moment you try to push me off or, you know, give me some, some soft objection, like you're in for it. Like just wait, buddy. You don't know who you're talking to yet. So I think that works out really well. I think it's an automatic kind of respect gainer on the phone. I'm not sure really, you know, why it, it, but it does go over well with male prospects. So I mean, my style of, you know, I'm not going to let you basically bulldoze over me or get out of this conversation. I'm going to, to try everything, you know, politely and respectfully. To challenge you and why you just said no. So that's, um, that's my style. I would rather, you know, have someone tell me no than push me to email. Like, that's not gonna work. What, what sale has ever happened over email?

1:12:40 Scott Ingram: Nice. So this is, this is interesting. I am very, very quickly… I mean, the sample size is still relatively small with this show, and we're still in the, the single digits of of new episodes. But it's very clear, obviously, women in sales are a minority. However, they don't seem to be a minority in the top ranks. I think women are more consistently at the top than other things. And again, maybe I'm just seeing that in a limited view. Why do you think that is? What's going on?

1:13:15 Angela Kirkland: You know, I I think about this a lot. And me and my colleague Jordan have talked about it a lot. And I think it's, it's interesting, like SalesLoft, like we're making a very big push with inclusion and diversity in our organization. Like it's absolutely critical. We're at, you know, 120 folks I think right now. And we're really at that point where we need to, we need this, we need the diversity to help get us to the next level. Like, but for Jordan and I, I mean, it's a lot about like, we care. I mean, it's… and Kyle actually talks about this a lot, that sometimes the best salespeople to hire are the ones that kind of have a chip on their shoulder, essentially. Like, I am… I care so much and want to be at the top of my class, like, and, you know, not let any any, you know, frat boy beat me like that. Like, that's just important to me. And like, I, I want to prove that to me and the world and the company. And it's a big driving force for, you know, why I want to be successful is I'm out to kind of pave that way and be a future leader in sales as a woman. So I don't know if it's a little bit of that. I don't know if it's, you know, I think it's Our emotional IQ can tend to be higher. So we're, we're well connected. We understand the ins and outs of the role and we understand we can utilize, you know, extra resources that help us get us there, like leveraging their relationships and, you know, the communication and the collaboration. Those are things that I think women are just like very inherently good at. Um, and obviously you can have, you know, some downsides of that too with gossip and, you know, kind of nitpickiness. But for the most part, it works, works really well in, in a sales-related role.

1:15:20 Scott Ingram: And at this point, I'm often inclined to ask about just advice you would have for others in either coming into your type of role or who, who've been in the role for a while and are really looking to take it to the next level. But the, the layer that I'll add to that is maybe frame it for, um, for other women, the SDRs. And in addition, I don't know if that changes your advice at all, but I'm curious.

1:15:48 Angela Kirkland: Yeah. So, I mean, the biggest thing for me is continue to ask yourself why. If you set a goal out for yourself, understand why is that important to you? Try to understand, okay, what is driving my success? What's motivating me? And like, those are the type of things that you're going to have to keep in mind when, you know, times get tough. And I think a lot of people, you know, join or think they want to be in sales for, for the wrong reasons. Maybe it's they just, they want to be in sales just to say they're in sales at a cool startup or Or whatever, but understanding like really why you want to be there, like what your overall goal is, your objective, like that's going to keep you going. Like, it's not, it's not, you know, a fun role all the time. You're going to get a lot of nos. So understanding why you're in this and what you're in it for, you know, it needs to be a constant reminder or it has been to help, to help me going and kind of finding that passion and fueling it. Um, so I challenge, you know, the women out there to do that and, um, understand really what's driving, you know, their, their motivations and, and really hone in on it.

1:17:10 Scott Ingram: And what is that for you? I mean, what's, what's the underlying why that motivates you?

1:17:16 Angela Kirkland: The underlying why for me has a lot to come from my background. Like I, I grew up in a very small town. Um, you know, I, My dad didn't, didn't graduate from college. My mom was, you know, the breadwinner in our family and she raised me to be very independent, to be very strong-willed and to, you know, if I see something I want, go out there and get it and don't, don't wait for anyone to hand it to you. And most certainly don't wait, you know, wait for a man to support you. So it's just been, it's been very apparent to me my whole life is, you know, kind of breaking stereotypes, like getting out of that small town, you know, really making something of myself, being a powerful sales executive in Atlanta. I'm involved with a group called Women in Technology and mentoring a younger… actually a senior in high school to help her continue to pursue, you know, a career and her dreams in STEM. Which is science, technology, engineering, and math. And that's just really important to me. I want more women in the workplace. I want more women in sales and technology. And it, it's something I'm just very passionate about. I literally, Scott, I can't tell you, I check out career pages for websites all the time, right? Like I'm every, every prospect I'm calling into, I go to their careers page, I go to their leadership page. And it's always the female is the HR leader. And that pisses me off. I really want us to take a stance here and support each other and, you know, be in the workplace and have strong leadership roles. And if that's, you know, what I want, then I need to be part of that movement.

1:19:12 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. And I think my assumption through this has been It is the, the female trait. So as the father of 2 daughters, man, there is a big difference between boys and girls. Like they come out different. Um, I, I don't know how it happened. I swear there was absolutely no exposure to princess anything in, in the early years. And it's in the DNA. I don't know where that thing comes from. And it's a stage. I mean, they're, they're sort of through that at this, at this point. But the point is, we are different. And I think some of those female traits… and I think you really nailed it… it's, it's the empathy and just really caring about the, the clients, the people that they're working with, their results, um, and continuing through with those things. And I hope that Um, I mean, to your point, so much of sales leadership is male. Um, I think we need to be open to, um, bringing more into, into this role and just continuing to encourage it because I don't know what it is. It's, it's still not a gigantic, uh, cross-section that I'm, I'm seeing. So I can't say that it's statistically relevant yet. Um, but man, there, there is something going on and I think we need to be really, really aware of and embrace it because gosh, it works. I mean, just just the fact of your results there. If 1 and 2 are both females, and the last SDR I talked to at the, at the top of her game at Vision Critical, uh, is female, there's something going on here, guys, right?

1:20:53 Angela Kirkland: And it's, it's so interesting. Um, I'm not sure if you're familiar with Trish Bertuzzi, but I mean, she's awesome. She is such an advocate in this space, and I've had opportunity to meet her at several events, but She came to SalesLoft and talked to myself and Jordan and another colleague who was a very successful female AE at SalesLoft. And we all kind of uncovered that we had like hardworking moms growing up. And a lot of, you know, people that I know, my friends that, you know, are, want to be stay-at-home moms, that's what their moms were. And, you know, but I don't want to get too into it, but I just think that that has a big play of what you see, you know, is if you grow up in a family where that's supported by your mom or your dad and it really influences, you know, what, what you want to do in life. And it's just something I'm very passionate about and I want to help, help break the mold for especially, you know, also Atlanta, like I want to put Atlanta on the map, man. Like we're, we're a great city. We've got so much tech talent and, uh, I want to be a part of SalesLoft and show that you can be a successful startup SaaS company and not be in San Francisco.

1:22:13 Scott Ingram: Well, I'm in Austin and we do pretty well here too in the tech space. So you're right. You don't have to be in San Francisco.

1:22:19 Angela Kirkland: Yes. Awesome.

1:22:22 Scott Ingram: Angela, I've been starting to have a few more of these SDR conversations. I've got at least one more interview coming up here in the next couple of weeks. I'm curious, what, what questions would you want to ask of your peers who are at the, the top of their game in, in this type of a role, or, or maybe even going into an AE role? Because that's obviously where, where your head's at these days.

1:22:47 Angela Kirkland: Yeah. Um, so I've been, I've been sitting down with a lot of the AEs at SalesLoft and actually met with an AE at Terminus. Which is another Atlanta-based technology company. What do you know? She's female and she's the number one AE over there. So just, it was awesome just to get some different perspective, you know, outside of your own company. I think, you know, the biggest thing for me is what's, what's the most challenging part of your day-to-day job as an AE? I think I can manage I'm in control of my day pretty well now, but as an AE, you're essentially like freeing up your, your week for people to book meetings for you. And that, that would make me a little nervous. Like, you know, you go to lunch and you think you have 2 meetings and you come back and you maybe have 4. Like, so being a little out of control of your schedule, like I'd love to, to learn about that a little bit more, how you handle that. Also, you know, how do you know who's going to buy? Like, that's so different than getting someone on a call, on a demo. There's so much more finesse and I think skill that goes into just showing someone a demo. It's so much more about the questions you ask and, you know, the process you have in getting people to certain points. Throughout that pipeline. I mean, I probably have a million questions, but those are kind of the most top of mind for me is around time management and basically, you know, freeing up your schedule. Again, I'm naturally concerned about that one because I like to be prepared. So making sure I can be prepared for all those conversations gets me a little worried. Understanding, you know, if you've got 40 opportunities in your pipeline for that month, how do you Which ones do you focus on that you can actually close? Um, and you know, how do you… I know for me, I'd be… I want to touch all of them, but you can't. You have to narrow it down. So understanding, you know, kind of the selection process for that. Um, those are a few that I'd love to get some insights on.

1:25:03 Scott Ingram: Great questions. Well, keep, keep them coming. And if you're listening to this, uh, keep those coming as well. We're really trying to continue to evolve the questions that we're asking of the top sellers we bring on to the show to answer those questions that are, that are most relevant for you and the things that you're trying to solve for. And you can always just send me an email. I'm at scott@top1.fm, or better yet, join the Sales Success Community. If you go to top1.fm and get on that mailing list, we'll get you an invite in there. And that's where we're really trying to share a lot of extra content and conversation. So, Angela, this has been so great. I want to start to wrap up here. And the way I try… I don't know if this is working or not. So, here's something else you guys can reach out to me on and tell me if you like this approach or not. But I'm trying to have each of my guests kind of distill what they've shared and the key learnings into something really actionable. So, what would you suggest? And we'll stay on the SDR theme because that's That's the world, you know. So for the SDRs in the audience that are, that are listening, what is something that they can take on maybe as a personal challenge over the next 7 to 10 days that's going to help them directly improve their game and their results?

1:26:22 Angela Kirkland: Yeah. So I would challenge everyone on a Sunday afternoon, look at their week. Look at what they need to accomplish and make a goal for themselves, whether that be weekly or if you want to break it down daily, figure out, you know, based on where you're at really, you, and you know, as an SDR, you know what you need to be focusing more on. For me, it's always adding net new accounts. I just have a problem with doing that consistently every day. So I'd say focus on what that is. And then on Monday morning, Ask one of your colleagues, someone that you're close with, to hold you accountable. That is so huge. If you verbalize a goal, tell someone else, and you've built that trust and, you know, relationship with them and they won't feel awkward calling you out on your shit, then that's going to help you succeed. I guarantee you will hit that goal if you have someone that's holding you accountable. But if you say, oh yeah, I really need to do this. This is my goal. Like it won't, the odds of it happening, I know for me are much higher if I can have someone help me with it and they don't have to be super invested. They can ping you at lunch or ping you at the end of the day and see where you're at. And help you through that and just hold you accountable. That's the biggest thing. Guarantee if you set a goal, get someone to help you with that. You will hit it.

1:27:52 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. And it sounds like that is very, very real in your world. I imagine that's something that you must do with Jordan on a weekly basis.

1:28:00 Angela Kirkland: Yes, we do that all the time. We put, I put things on my calendar that are like, literally stop what you're doing and do this. Like I have to, I have to put it on there. I need like constant, um, you know, reminders of it. Like it's just the more you can, can like ingrain it into your day, your week, the more likely it is to happen. And yeah, I guarantee you someone at your company will want you to do the same for them. And it's a great, great way to learn and grow together.

1:28:31 Scott Ingram: Love it. Love it. Angela, this has been fantastic. So much value, so many insights. I can't wait to share it. Thank you.

1:28:38 Angela Kirkland: Oh, thank you so much, Scott. It was awesome. I'm like, I'm really excited to be, be a part of this podcast. I mean, I love sales. I love getting this story out and helping any way I can. It's, it's, it's amazing. So thank you so much for inviting me to be on the show.

1:28:57 Scott Ingram: Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast. To be sure you never miss an episode and for an invitation to our Sales Success Community powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter at top1.fm.