68: Liz Tolin of Chargify - Servant Leadership in Sales

0:08 Scott Ingram: You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve. To learn more, visit us at top1.fm. Here's your host, Scott Ingram. This episode is brought to you thanks to the generous support of Dale Carnegie. To register for our webinar on the principles of top 1% level sales success, click over to top1.fm/dale. Today, my guest is Liz Tolin. Liz is the top strategic account executive at Chargify. Welcome to the show, Liz.

0:45 Liz Tolin: Thanks so much for having me, Scott.

0:46 Scott Ingram: So I'm really, really looking forward to this conversation because I have a feeling there's some things that might be revealed as we go through it that maybe are a little bit unique. But we're going to start like we always do, and I'll have you kind of talk through the top 3 things that you believe have contributed to your success in sales?

1:05 Liz Tolin: Sure. So, I guess really to start, my first thing is that you should know my background isn't necessarily in sales. There's been aspects I think that play into sales, but my background is super diverse. So, to kind of dig into that, my background is more military. I started out as an air traffic controller, and then I was able to take a civilian position with NATO and move to Hungary. So, I was working on foreign military sales cases, and then I went on to commission as an officer in the Wyoming Air National National Guard. So, my background isn't actually sales, but it did lead me here to Chargify. And I think a lot of what I learned through the military and through that NATO experience really helps me in the sales environment. You know, one of the things that I've learned, and this is kind of one of my top 3 things, is that I'm not afraid to pick up the phone and ask questions. So, going back to the NATO experience, there's a lot that you have to do and there's only so many people to do it. And that experience was a great one because we got to step outside our lane, if you will, you know, kind of color outside the lines. And it required you to have that forward-thinking, bigger sight picture type mentality that required you to actually pick up the phone and get stuff done. Just talk to people, because I think that you find when you pick up the phone and just have a conversation with someone that there's so much more that you can get done and so much more that you can establish in that relationship with whomever that is, just by having a conversation and being willing and not being afraid of getting a no, right? Because it gives you somewhere to start from. No typically has a reason. Why is it a no? Well, now you have a reason and a level playing field so that you can build from that. So that's kind of one of my big things that I like to do is, is Let's get to that no so that we can work from there about why is it a no and what can we do to turn that into a yes. So that's, that's really kind of my, my number one and my number two. And I guess really my, my top third thing also plays into my first one is that I'm not a traditional, I guess what, what maybe the outside community might consider to be a salesperson, right? I don't like to use, and I won't use pressure tactics to close the deal because I've worked so hard on establishing those relationships with my clients, and trying to use pressure to close something never leads to a good outcome, right? So somebody's going to be unhappy, and it changes how those clients and those customers then interact with my company and the rest of our employees. So my support team, my onboarding team, and that's not ever something that I want to jeopardize and put them in a bad position by having a poor relationship with a client coming in, because that, that just paints a negative experience for everyone down the road. And I respect my colleagues too much to do that, and my clients. So that's something that, you know, I focus more on honest and meaningful conversation with my clients so I can understand their businesses, understand their needs, and really help them get to a solution, not only with a product, but what is this going to do for them 2 years down the line, 4 years down the line. And so I'll often tell my, my clients when we first have a conversation that, look, yes, I work in sales, but I am not going to do those things to you. You can expect that I'm not going to give you pressure tactics, ultimatums. I'm not to try to force you. And by establishing that, that kind of trustful relationship, you know, then it makes it really easy to say, okay, where are we at in the picture? Is this a yes for Chargify? What's the date that we're going to get this done? And by doing that, you know, it sets expectations, it sets the cadence for how we work together, and it really just opens the door for transparent and truthful conversation on both sides. So somebody doesn't feel like they have to hide something to say no and feel weird and guilty about it, if that makes sense.

5:01 Scott Ingram: It does. And just, just to create some distinction here, because I know you blended things together a bit, and we'll get into this some more. So, the first one was really just the diversity of background has helped you in your sales role. Is that… did I get that one right?

5:16 Liz Tolin: Yeah, absolutely. So, part of that diversity, being, being both air traffic, right, gives you the, let's say, confidence. You have to be confident to go on the radio and tell aircraft where to go, right? Because these are people's lives at stake. And so, you have to sound and know what you're doing. So, that's, that's the confidence portion of it. Moving to other organizations within the military and within NATO, being able to speak to anyone, whether it is somebody at an embassy, whether it's a colleague down the office in the IT department, whether it's, it's somebody at supply point, being able to talk to anyone on any level and not be afraid to communicate with them. So that's, that's kind of where that, that NATO background really brought me, is that I some days had to pick up the phone and talk to somebody at, at the embassy, talk to somebody at an MOD, call back to somebody at, you know, the US Air Force or anywhere. So it just, it just kind of depended. And then that background really gave me that skill set to be able to not be afraid to communicate with, with folks, but also I'm a big logistics fan. So, I like that, that part of understanding my client's use case and what they need to accomplish. And so, that military gave me that logistical background side, and I can apply that today for my clients.

6:39 Scott Ingram: Well, and I have to imagine, knowing what I know, that the rest of those listening will know soon, that the whole logistics and air traffic control has got to all come in pretty handy with just the way that you have to run your life.

6:52 Liz Tolin: Oh yes, we can, we can dig into that just in a goodness, in a nutshell. We have 4 children. My husband is deployed for a year to the Middle East. I work full-time obviously for Chargify. I also am an aircraft maintenance officer still with the Wyoming Air National Guard. I run a 501 nonprofit organization that supports NICU families and 6 hospitals in 2 states. And then lastly, just recently, I was crowned Mrs. Wyoming 2019 and will be competing for Mrs. America this summer.

7:26 Scott Ingram: That's amazing. So let's…

7:29 Liz Tolin: thank you.

7:30 Scott Ingram: Well, let's, let's just simplify a little bit and just and only talk about the sales side of things. Talk about just kind of your role and about Chargify for those… I imagine most of us aren't familiar with Chargify. Give us some sense of that.

7:44 Liz Tolin: Yeah. So let's go back to Chargify. So Chargify is my, my full-time job and I love it here at Chargify. Chargify is a platform built to help you automate your subscription billing business, but it goes way beyond just subscriptions. You know, we're an industry leader in being able to give customers the toolset to plug and play for their billing, whether it's things like out-of-the-box solutions where we have hosted signup pages or full-on API integrations in a native environment, PCI compliance, all the metrics and analytics and things that you would expect to find with billing. And it really allows our customers to get back to managing their relationships with their customers. And developing their products so that they're not taking that time and those precious resources away to focus on a billing system.

8:33 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. And it was actually your CEO, Tom Rodham, who introduced us. He and I met at a dinner here in Austin, and shout out to Betts Recruiting who hosted that dinner. It was fantastic. And Tom found out about the show and what I was doing. He's like, you have to talk to Liz because of all the stuff, right? She, not only is she our best person, but she's got 4 kids and there's all this other stuff going on. She's, he's like, you absolutely have to talk to her. So I'm, I'm so glad that, that he connected us. Tom, thanks for, thanks for that. And Liz, before we talk about your results, let's talk about this webinar that's coming up with Dale Carnegie on May 21st. My previous guest on the podcast, Stephen Holgate, who's one of Dale Carnegie's top performing sailors, will be interviewing me about the principles of top 1% level sales success. And we're going to try and make that experience really interactive. So join us live if you can, but of course there will be a recording as well. So to register and get the rest of the details, go to top1.fm/dale. And if you're listening to this after May 24th, you can use that same link and I'll just make sure to direct it to a place where you can get access to the recording. All right, Liz, talk to us about what does it take to be the top performer at Chargify?

9:46 Liz Tolin: Oh my goodness. What does it take? You know, I honestly, to start with, product knowledge. This is an interesting role where this is not a high transactional type environment. So, the folks that are coming to Chargify really have a need to understand the system, whether they're C-level type individuals, whether they are someone from the tech team, whether it's just someone that has been put on the research team to find a solution. And so, because it's a non-high transactional type environment, this is where somebody really needs to understand the product so that when we're listening to our customers, right, this is where listening skills are huge because you have to be able to pick out what it is they're saying and think about, okay, this is how the system can apply and work for you, or understand that, oh, nope, that's not something that we can do. So, I think really the biggest thing to start with is product knowledge, to really understand the platform. And to that point, you know, we just went through a product training with our product team this morning, and they did a fantastic job. And it just helps get everyone on the same page and understand how deep the system can go because it is super deep. And I, having worked here for so many years, there's still stuff that I learn every day. It's like, oh, I didn't know that we could do that that way. That's a cool way to think about things. And so I think that's, that's really the, the first building block in a successful salesperson's… I don't know what you want to call it… that toolbox. Well, I guess I would say tool in, in the toolbox, if you want to call it that.

11:15 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And, and then what has your results looked like? What, what have you, what have you sold?

11:20 Liz Tolin: Yeah, so where I work in sales is a little interesting. So I work on the strategic team, and this has been a piece that I have floated around in different teams to help, but Strategic is where I live. And in that, we wind up with more custom-type deals than we do on the core team, because these are more complex customers that come in. These are folks that have really interesting use cases, and these are the folks that it takes sometimes 9 to 12 months before a deal actually closes. So, having that, that gumption to just keep going and stick with it, even though it's something that takes a really long time, is a big piece of it. So, in terms of what I've sold, You know, results-wise, I typically finish anywhere between 90 and 110%. Some months are higher and it kind of ebbs and flows depending on, on what quarter we're in and type of season, you know, that Q4 towards the end of the year typically slows down, right? Just because it's end of year, that sort of thing. But our bigger, our bigger deals, I'm trying to think what's the best example. I can't give away customer names, so I have to keep the kind of the details in in check here, but the biggest one, the most recent that was really exciting was one that we were able to work out custom work for. And that was a really cool step for Chargify to take because it meant going in and doing proserve work to the system to meet the end customer's needs. And that was the, really the first time that we've done that and it went very well. And so being able to spearhead that initiative and work with these clients from start to finish to get them on board and do all this was probably the most exciting thing that I've done here at Chargify so far.

13:04 Scott Ingram: That's exciting. So, I'm really interested in how did you make this transition into sales? How did you go from air traffic control and this military background into your… this role with Chargify?

13:16 Liz Tolin: Oh my gosh, okay, prepare yourself for a story. So, I was with NATO in Hungary, and we were expecting our little boy, Number 3, and he… we found out at 20 weeks that there was a problem and medical care where we were, their recommendation was that we terminate him and that he wasn't going to make it. So we decided that was not an option for us and immediately came back to the US for healthcare. So that meant at the end of it that I had to leave my position with NATO because we had to be back stateside. And I after we got our little boy home and out of the NICU, because he, he clearly made it, I had a friend who was working here at Chargify and he said, you know, we are hiring for this position. And it wasn't sales at the time. So Chargify has undergone some changes, but at that time it was, it was sort of a blend of customer service slash sales, although we didn't have a quote unquote sales team. And he said, you know, you'd be great at this, so you should apply for it. And I was just staying at home with the kids and I said, yeah, sure. Like, let me, I need to do something, so let's give it a whirl. And I applied and was hired and brought on and I stayed with the team. And then not too long after, probably 6 months after I came on, Chargify went through an acquisition and we joined the Scaleworks family. And so when that happened, then some changes were brought in. So we actually developed a sales team and Mike Welsh, our VP, came in to lead that sales team and he gave us all the option, you know, you can stay with support. Or if you want to stay with me on the sales team, you're welcome to do that. And I said, you know, I think I want to stay. This is a new challenge and I've never worked on a full quote unquote sales team before, but I think I'm up for it and, you know, let's do this. And so he, he was kind enough to give me the opportunity to stay and, you know, I've been able to make him proud, I think. So here we are, you know, 3 and a half years later and on the sales team and doing a good job for the company.

15:16 Scott Ingram: That's fantastic. Now, is there anything that you… I don't know if this question even applies, right? I typically ask if there is anything that you would do differently, you know, starting over, knowing what you know now. I mean, is there, or was this just the way it was meant to be?

15:33 Liz Tolin: No, I don't think I would change anything, to be honest. I think, you know, if you holistically take a look at everything you've ever done, it all leads you to where you are today. And I would not change anything that I have done because each job or different career field that I have been in has contributed some tool, some trait that helps make me successful in the role that I'm at right now.

15:57 Scott Ingram: Awesome. And I want to ask about it now because I just don't want to forget about it. When you were talking about just sort of the expectations that you're setting with your client and that you're, you know, you're not going to pull the sleazy sales tricks on them, is that a first conversation? Like, when and how do you typically do that?

16:13 Liz Tolin: Yeah, that's That usually, it does work itself into the first conversation because I think, you know, when you have that first call with clients, they can be a little apprehensive about what's, what's coming. And I think we can, we've all been there. I think each and every one of us can recall a conversation with somebody who's been in that, that kind of sleazy sales role, and it just makes your skin crawl, right? Like, you just, I don't want to do this. And yeah, we need a product, but so it typically, you know, there's no set format. There is an agenda that we usually stick to. And so part of it is just learning about the customer and when they're asking questions and they want to know about the company and about my role, then I usually just kind of segue in that, look, I'm here to help you and I promise to help you. That is my promise to you. And in that, I'm not going to do these things to you. So as we build this relationship, trust that I'm telling you right here and now, this is how I'm going to operate so that you understand what the rest of our communication is going to look like.

17:11 Scott Ingram: That's, that's awesome. You know, it's, what's interesting is after we finish this interview, um, I'm going to be interviewed on a show. I think it's called Unleash Possible. And really we're going to talk about this idea of kind of the myth of the salesperson, right? And, and the difference between all these just horrible stereotypes and what I find in talking with folks like you of, you know, really great salespeople are really great people, right? And, and it's… there aren't all these stupid pet tricks and pressure and everything else, right? It's really more about the collaboration and everything else. So depending on when that episode releases, I will work on putting that link in this episode's show notes. If you go to top1.fm/liz, because I don't remember what number it's going to be, we'll certainly include a link to that and you can hear me dig a little bit deeper into that because I think it's It's so pervasive, you know, so much of these stereotypes, and it's not what greatness is about.

18:12 Liz Tolin: No, I absolutely agree. You know, I literally had one of those vacuum sales folks on my doorstep at 8:30 the other night, and it was those high pressure, and I'm like, I have screaming children, I need to get to bed, and you're really trying to push those paper towels on me so you can bring the vacuum in. And it was just, ah, I think that's where a lot of it comes from, you know, but I think it's so true that that there are so many great salesfolk out there and even everyone on my team, you know, they're all professionals and none of them do that. And I think it's just a great way to conduct business is to be completely transparent about how communication is going to happen.

18:49 Scott Ingram: Yeah, great stuff. So, do you have, I mean, you've already told us a couple of great stories and I want to keep it going. Do you have a favorite sales story and whether you won or maybe you lost, where you took away just a great lesson that has really informed the way that you sell going forward?

19:06 Liz Tolin: Yeah, you know, actually we've got one that's, that's in flight, so let's use that because we've neither won nor lost it. So it has definitely been the biggest account that I've had to date, and it would be a huge win for us to have. And in going through this process, you know, it's, it's challenged us to take a good hard look at the way that we approach product and the way that customers need it and how we respond to demands from the marketplace. One of the cool things about this, and whether we win it or not, has just been the, the opportunity to really dig in with this particular client and learn the ins and outs of their business, but also being able to loop in members from our team that haven't normally been looped in before. So folks who can do things like Salesforce Workups so that we can understand how their organization will plug into our organization via Salesforce. And that's not, not something that has come into play before, but it's been a really great learning opportunity. And I, no matter what the outcome of this one is, it's been my favorite just because we have been able to really pull everyone together from Tom, our CEO, to Gary, who's our VP of Marketing, and Mike, and Barrow on our product team and really put our heads together to make this a team effort. And I think that is where true success is, right? Because it involves everyone. I think that success in sales isn't just about the one salesperson because it involves everyone. It includes a successful product. It includes successful support. And this has been my favorite thus far because it's been excellent to see all of these pieces come together and everyone work so diligently and positively for the same goal.

20:58 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. So, right there, it's not often, well, it's not always that I know like, oh, that was one of the gold quotes from the episode, but that was it. I think this whole team selling idea, and if you think about the customer experience side of that, when they see this is what I get working with this company, right? This is how they work together. This is how they solve problems. When you're able to sort of expose them to those inner workings and what they can can expect to experience once they are a paying client and now you're working to serve them and deliver all the things you promised. It just builds so much confidence and takes out so much risk of, oh, well, this is what the salesperson is just saying to me versus, oh, they actually do this stuff.

21:47 Liz Tolin: Absolutely. And it's funny because when I have clients who do close and they come on board, I always tell them, welcome to the Chargify family because it really is. So we're here to… help each other and take care of one another, not only internally, but our clients and, you know, their end users, because it is all of us working together. And so, that's, that's my viewpoint on it, right, wrong, or indifferent. But I always, that's what I always tell them is welcome to the family.

22:16 Scott Ingram: Awesome. So, you have accomplished a lot in a lot of different areas. I mean, what, what are you most proud of?

22:22 Liz Tolin: Oh, goodness. You mean between sales or just in general?

22:25 Scott Ingram: Yes. And if that's 2 different answers, I think that's fine.

22:29 Liz Tolin: Well, I guess from the sales perspective, I, you know, I was really hesitant and nervous coming into this. Like, I don't, don't know. I didn't know if I would be any good at this and do a good job. And I, you know, quite frequently is, am I doing the right thing for the company? Am I helping the company? Is, is this beneficial? Like, I, I don't want to bring in accounts that are bad for the company or going to be, you know, really hard on our sales team or excuse me, not our sales team, but our support team. So I think, I think in terms of sales, That's probably the thing I've been most proud of is being able to transition from a non-sales role, right? Having no actual quote unquote sales experience to being able to stay on the newly formed sales team, but not only do well, but really flourish and continually be able to be a top producer for the company and make our company proud. So, that's, that's probably my favorite. Accomplishment out of the sales side.

23:30 Scott Ingram: Beautiful. What do you find to be the hardest part? Like, what do you struggle with the most?

23:35 Liz Tolin: Nobody likes losing, right? So, that's always fun. That's not fun, but a part that it's like, well, dang. And you always, I think when you get a no and it's a firm no and you can't go any further, there's always some aspect of beating yourself up about what could I have done differently? What, you know, what did I miss? And I think that's the hardest part. Sometimes I think sales can be akin to a soul-sucking abyss, if you will. And when you have a string of losses, just one right after the other, it really makes you question yourself about your ability and, you know, if you're missing something. But I think that's just part of it. I think that's part of the sales cycle, and it just happens that way because sometimes you're going to have a series of wins and you'll feel really good, and then, you know, you have a couple of losses and you start kicking yourself like, what did I do wrong? And I think I think that that's probably anyone's hardest thing to deal with is taking those losses and doing some internal reflection to see what did I do wrong? And if there is something that you can improve upon, identifying that so that you can move forward.

24:36 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Now, how do you work through that, especially just kind of mentally when you do experience kind of that series of losses?

24:42 Liz Tolin: You know, I think part of it is, as I'll talk through it with my VP, with Mike Welsh, and he has been outstanding to work for, just, you know, as a mentor and as a leader and to work through things. Places where, you know, maybe it was just the platform couldn't support what they wanted. And that's not something that I did, right? There's nothing that I can do that will fix that. But working through those things and talking through losses with the team and, and with Mike really helped us identify, you know, is there something we need to change in the company, in the platform, in our product, or is it just something in the sales cycle that we missed? And that helps everyone at the end of the day. And so usually That's the best way is honestly not to bury it and try to forget about it because it's through that analysis and that self-reflection, I think we really find the areas that we can improve upon. And so, typically, it's if you got a series of losses, find whatever it is and then you can fix it and that makes you feel better about it.

25:42 Scott Ingram: Well, and that's a really interesting approach, right? Because not only are you getting an opportunity to just sort of work through it yourself, but doing it in a way where it's serving the organization as well, right? Maybe there is a gap, maybe there's something that we can be doing better, or there's a product enhancement that we can put in place where we wouldn't lose this type of opportunity in the future. I think that's, that's incredibly productive.

26:05 Liz Tolin: Absolutely. And I think that's a huge part of a sales individual's role. You know, I, especially in a company like Chargify where it is product and we are product-driven, then listening to those signals from our customers really help us define, and we can relay that back to the company that this is what the marketplace is asking for. These are what the tools that people need. And we're the first, I guess, I don't know if you want to call it first line of defense, but we're the first group picking up on the signals. And so, we have to be really intuitive to understand what those are and then take that information back to our team and back to our leadership so that they can make those business decisions.

26:45 Scott Ingram: That's fantastic. So, this next section is all about just kind of habits and routines and how you're managing through. I'm, I couldn't wait to get here because I have got to know how the heck you're doing all of this. So, I typically start by asking about, is there a particular morning routine or maybe just take us through a day, right? So, the alarm clock goes off, like what time does that happen? And give us the blow-by-blow from there.

27:12 Liz Tolin: Inclusive of items with children?

27:14 Scott Ingram: Yes.

27:15 Liz Tolin: Okay. Give us the whole thing. This is gonna be fun. Sure. So, the oldest has to be out the door very early. So, the clock usually goes off about 5:15.

27:25 Scott Ingram: And Liz, give us the, give us the range of ages for those.

27:29 Liz Tolin: Oh, sure. So, children-wise, the oldest is 14 and in middle school. The second down is 6 and she's in kindergarten. The next one is Toby. He's 5. He's the one that, that we mentioned was in the NICU and prompted this whole sales journey. And then our little baby who just turned a year old last week. So that's, that's those guys. And then we have 2 giant dogs who are just obnoxious. But so clock goes off at 5:15, get up to make sure that the oldest is up and moving because we all know how middle schoolers do not want to be up and moving, especially when it's dark outside. So getting him out the door, trying to not wake up the baby. She still wakes up once a night Sometimes twice. So she's, she's kind of killing me slowly, but getting him up, getting him out, and then trying to get myself ready without waking anybody else up in the house. But sometimes that doesn't happen. So we, we revert to the sticking the baby in the bathtub, playing with toys so I can hop in the shower quickly and hop back out. With my husband being deployed, it's kind of playing zone defense these days. And then once that happens, kids get handed off to their, to their nanny at 7. And then I start work at 7:00 AM and I'm in Mountain Time. So I try to align with my colleagues in Central Time Zone. So from then on out, from, from basically 7:00 to 4:00, it totally depends on the day, but we have staff meetings on Mondays and Thursdays and we have a couple of different other weekly scheduled meetings that are in there. But, you know, within that timeframe, that's where I'm, I've got calls and demos and meetings scheduled with clients. And we're working through new leads coming in and making phone call reach-outs depending on what time zone those folks are in. And, you know, it's just a hustle from basically 7 to 4. And then, you know, even later, because we all know that working in sales doesn't mean that you only have a defined schedule, because we've got clients that could be, you know, in Australia or New Zealand, and that's going to require some, some later calls in the evening to line up with those time zones, or even those in Europe. So we get up early to do those kind of calls because we have to have that flexibility to be able to do that.

29:40 Scott Ingram: And then what, what about after the, the workday?

29:42 Liz Tolin: Oh gosh, after the workday. Oh Lord. So after the workday, typically I'm in the gym 5 days a week. That plays into prepping for both Mrs. Wyoming, but now more prepping for Mrs. America. So there's an hour in the gym and then we come home and it's dinner, you know, whether it's… we try to every week on Sunday, we plan out a menu and then we do the grocery shopping for that week so that we have everything set to go and we stick to that menu. And, you know, we, we could swap Monday for Thursday if, if that's what needed to happen, but we try to do that to help organize some of the chaos at least. So then it's typically dinner and getting kids ready for bed. You know, the baby's got to go down by 8. We've got to get the littles down and get homework done if there's anything that, that they need to finish. And then really trying to catch up on laundry. So after they go to bed, it's usually laundry and sweeping the floors and trying to catch up on dishes and, you know, whatever else I might have going on. I've I've got charity work and things right now I've got to get done. We have a big gala coming up this month, and so getting all those final details sorted out, things for any of the children, just any… anything that you normally have in that extra category of just stuff that has to get checked off the list. And try to get in bed by 10 if I can. Sometimes it's a little bit later, and then we do it all again.

31:03 Scott Ingram: That's, that's amazing. And I'm just… I'm doing the mental calculus on the amount of laundry you must contend with. That's tremendous. I really don't. I'm just doing rough math and multiples, you know, because you've got all the stages, right? I'm like, oh yeah, babies, that's like 4 outfits a day and all. Oh my gosh. So what about… is there any particular strategy or way that you're structuring the workday? So the Chargify piece of the day, is there a method to that madness?

31:34 Liz Tolin: You know, I try to leave the mornings for sifting through new leads and making those outbound initial contacts, or even following up with folks if we don't have a meeting scheduled. Typically, I find that, that most folks who are scheduling meetings do that around the lunch hour to early afternoon, but we do have some folks that schedule earlier in the morning. And, and so, you know, I don't keep it so rigid to say that, oh, I don't accept, you know, demos from this time to this time, just because because that never works and, and that's not client-focused. So everything that I do in my day and scheduling, I try to keep it, you know, focused on what the client's needs are and, and then really allowing that to, to dictate how the flow of the day goes. I do try to block out my lunch hour just so that extra meetings don't get scheduled on top of it, to give myself some breathing time. I typically work through lunch, but by blocking that hour, at least if I've had back-to-back-to-back days, then I've that break in there where I can go through and catch up on some emails or, you know, try to check in with my husband overseas and, and, you know, stand on the porch for 10 minutes and see the sun for the day.

32:39 Scott Ingram: Nice. Very nice. What about, what about that hour in the gym? What are you, what are you working on then?

32:44 Liz Tolin: Oh gosh. So I have a trainer 2 days a week out of that 5, and we do heavy lifting. So a lot of muscle building. And then the other 3 days are just an hour of cardio.

32:54 Scott Ingram: Got it. What's your favorite cardio?

32:55 Liz Tolin: Oh, you know, the elliptical. That's probably the the thing that I do the most. I had a couple of knee surgeries, and so I'm not a huge fan of running long distances just because it really starts to hurt after a while. But I, I go to Gold's Gym and they have Cardio Cinema, so it really makes it easy to just get lost in whatever movie's on and, and chug through it.

33:14 Scott Ingram: Perfect. That was my next question, is, is what are you doing on, on the elliptical? Because that can get a little bit monotonous. What about… and I don't know what else you're doing, but what is the rest of your information diet look like? What, what are you listening to, reading, and, and watching? And, and when the heck do you find time to do that?

33:30 Liz Tolin: Oh gosh, you know, I'll be honest, we don't really watch a lot of TV. There isn't a lot of time for that. I will say that, that I'm definitely up to date on Game of Thrones, so even if it's not on Sunday nights, like, I haven't caught up with this week's episode, so no spoilers please. So every once in a week, wait, I will carve out an hour at some point, you know, between that 9 to 10 hour to get caught up on that. But, you know, honestly, I try to keep up on the That's the biggest piece for me is just understanding what goes on out in the world and both in the business sector, but just, you know, global and some politics and that sort of thing. I, kind of a sidebar, I am a history major and have just finished my master's in international relations and diplomacy. So, checking into the news about all those things is important for me.

34:21 Scott Ingram: Got it. What about, are there tools and apps that are kind of core to the way that you're functioning and managing all of this?

34:28 Liz Tolin: Yeah, so we are huge Salesforce users, and Salesforce, as much as I hate it, I also love it. It's kind of that, that love-hate relationship. But Salesforce really gives me the tools to schedule things, leave myself notes, be able to track everything. So I can put documents in it, I can outline things. But I also use… I know this is probably a little backwards… but a whiteboard. And it's a little caveman, if you will, but I like to write things out on my whiteboard that sits on my wall so that I can see what do I have coming up, you know, what's next on the docket for this particular client, just because I'm a… I love analog, I love paper, I love my whiteboard. So, apps-wise, Salesforce is huge for keeping me organized, but, but I'm a big paper and whiteboard girl.

35:11 Scott Ingram: So, are you sitting near your whiteboard?

35:13 Liz Tolin: I am not.

35:14 Scott Ingram: Oh, darn. Okay, well, you'll have to visualize it for me then. Like, walk us through your whiteboard. How is your whiteboard structure? What's on it?

35:21 Liz Tolin: Yeah, so typically that looks basically it'll have client name, so the organization, and then my contact, and then, you know, last meeting date. So I can see like, okay, the last time we talked was this, and then what's next on the docket. So what do I need? Do I need to send them anything? Am I waiting for them to send something back? When's our next meeting scheduled? And so I try to keep it kind of concise, right? Because I can get all of these details inside of Salesforce where we keep the actual holding detailed records, but just to give myself a visual reminder of, oh, okay, we're waiting on the return of a scoping document from this client, that sort of thing.

35:58 Scott Ingram: Got it. Cool. Now, do you subscribe to a particular sales philosophy?

36:03 Liz Tolin: I don't think that I do. I don't think that I do. What are some of your favorites?

36:09 Scott Ingram: Well, you know, there, there are a couple of different, more traditional philosophies or school of thoughts, and most of them revolve around some type of book that was written at some point in the past. So more recently, people are talking about the Challenger Sale, and before that, a lot of people were into SPIN Selling. And then there's also training programs like, like Sandler and things like that. So there tends to be some of these more traditional philosophies, and other people have kind of their own philosophies, and maybe they have a name for it. Maybe, maybe you have… is there a Liz Tolin sales philosophy?

36:47 Liz Tolin: I guess if we had to define it, I would call it basically like servant leadership, right? So, we're trying to not only close the deal, right? Because that's what we're doing, but it's also about leading the consumer, the client, your customer, and educating at the same time. But it's not just about leading them to the end goal. I think servant leadership sums it up nicely because it's It's me being here to serve you, but in that teaching and leading capacity. So, I don't know if you would call that like an of-service type sales philosophy, but I guess that's probably the closest thing that would come to it is kind of servant leadership in being here to serve the end user, but also leading and educating and bringing it, you know, so that it's all nice and neat and together at the end.

37:39 Scott Ingram: That's fantastic. Actually, when we kicked off off the Sales Success Summit last year, the very first presentation was from DeJuan Brown, and DeJuan actually just moved over. He's working with another guest of the podcast. He's now working for Evan Kelsay at Seismic. He did a presentation called Success Through Service that was exactly that idea. And for folks that are interested in that, we've actually moved all of the videos over to Vimeo. So if you go to Vimeo, I'll put a link in the show notes for this as And if you haven't yet joined the listener list, if you go to top1.fm and get on that list, you can ask me for a code and get any of the videos, get any one of the videos from last year's summit. And so you could certainly choose DeJuan's if you want to dig into this idea of servant leadership as it applies to sales.

38:33 Liz Tolin: Awesome.

38:34 Scott Ingram: So I totally love just the whole servant leadership concept as it applies to sales. What about your style? How would you describe sort of of your style within that servant leadership philosophy?

38:46 Liz Tolin: Yeah, I guess my style, I think, probably defaults more to educator. So, when folks are coming in, you know, they have a specific need. And I think oftentimes clients, and we're all guilty of this ourselves, right? We have this expectation of what we think something should do and how it's going to work. And I think that can be a hangup that a lot of salespeople run into is because you have have this, this preset expectation that comes from who knows where. And to really be effective, you have to listen to what it is that the client's saying to get and understand fundamentally what that expectation is, and then educate on the reality and how the reality meets that expectation, or how they need to change that expectation. But I think that that comes into play through being an educator. But But not in a forceful, disrespectful way, but, but by being positive and encouraging and, you know, leading them in that regard.

39:49 Scott Ingram: Great stuff. So, what motivates all of this? I mean, and not just the sales side of things and your performance there, but you're doing a lot of other stuff that you certainly don't have to do. What drives all of that?

40:02 Liz Tolin: Oh, goodness. You know, it's a great question. I was just having a conversation with somebody. It was drill weekend this weekend, and they said, you know, You've been this way since high school. If you've not been super busy, then it's just not you. And I, I don't know what necessarily brought me to all that, but I, I have a passion for just really wanting to do everything and try everything. And I don't know that I necessarily have to be successful at everything, but every adventure that you take, every new thing that you learn helps you grow in some aspect. And I, I just love learning about different things and trying different things and meeting people because in all of these things, it's been about, or not been about, but really granted me the opportunity to meet so many different types of people and build new relationships. And I think that's probably where a lot of this comes from is I love people. So, I love people. I love learning things. And that just fuels me to keep trying and keep doing, keep exploring and growing.

41:02 Scott Ingram: Awesome. What's the most interesting thing you have tried?

41:05 Liz Tolin: I learned how to make cheese. So, you know, in part of this learning how to do things and learning about stuff, it's not just about experiences, but I love to know fundamentally how things work. And I just, it was one of those things that I was reading about this year and I thought I could do that. And so that's something that I learned how to do. And it's funny because I used that in my paperwork for Mrs. Wyoming. And that was the very first question they asked is she said, so I see you learned how to make cheese, you know what? And so it's a great conversation piece too, because people, you don't realize how much work goes into cheese, actually. So it, it's crazy. I get it. It's off the wall. But that's, that's totally true to who I am. It's just something random. And I think that's been, that's been a really fun thing to do because friends really love it. They're like, oh gosh, homemade cheese. This is great. But it helps strike up conversation. And then, you know, it's, it's just a fun thing, I guess.

41:59 Scott Ingram: That's fascinating. So are you a self-taught cheesemaker or do you go take a cheese-making class? How did you do How did you do that?

42:06 Liz Tolin: Oh, self-taught. There's books and, you know, there's, there's communities online and Facebook groups and things. And so it's just YouTube videos. There's tons of stuff on YouTube and different podcasts on cheese, believe it or not. So, you know, it's just something to start with and you can start with something small, like making mozzarella in your microwave, which you can actually do. And yeah, just trial and error. But I think, you know, the interesting thing about doing that is that it is a lesson in patience because you can't rush it. Results, you won't know for a couple of months. And so it, it's not like you can just whip up a cheddar and know how it went the next day, because that's not how it is. And I think in a day and age when everything is instant gratification, I've really enjoyed this experience because it gets back to teaching me the patience that I need to have in learning new things, in trying new things, and, you know, for just end results.

43:01 Scott Ingram: That went a much deeper place than I thought because I was trying to prepare some type of cheesy joke. And instead, that seems meaningful.

43:08 Liz Tolin: Yeah, I think, you know, it's just everything's at our fingertips these days. And part of what I try to teach my children is just that everything comes from somewhere. So even, you know, at the grocery store, understanding where our food and things come from, and the patience and the determination and the skills that it takes to get it from farm to table, right? There's just… everybody needs to have a deeper understanding of how much work actually goes into things. And so, that's just part of where that came from.

43:37 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. So, this is going to be a total switching of gears from learning to make cheese, but is there something you believe that the average sales rep would think is crazy?

43:49 Liz Tolin: Oh, they probably already think I'm nuts if they're listening to this podcast. But do I… that they think… gosh, something that I believe that they would think is crazy. I don't know. I would like to believe that most salesfolk, salespeople, you know, would believe the same things in honesty and transparency and in being supportive of their customer. I don't know that anyone would think that I'm insane other than this has been my first real true quote-unquote sales role. Gosh, that's a hard one. I don't know. I don't think so. I guess if you're listening to this and you're a salesperson and you're listening to me and you think something I've said is nuts, let me know because I would be good.

44:30 Scott Ingram: There you go. So, what have been the most important decisions you've had to make, or maybe lessons you've had to learn to get where you are today?

44:38 Liz Tolin: Well, I think the most important decision was to, for where I am right now, is to say yes and apply. And I think that in and of itself is a huge lesson for all of us, right? Because every opportunity that you don't take is automatically a no, right? So, everything that you say no to, or that you're afraid to try, is a loss of something on the backside because you're never going to know what you're missing and what you could have learned out of an experience. So I think that's probably the biggest decision and where I am right this very minute in terms of lessons, lessons learned, you know, in my, my earlier sales career. If we go back to that, to that getting a no, right, that was, that was pretty hard. And, and at first it wasn't the greatest, right? There were other, other salesfolk that had come in and they were experienced sellers. And I was watching them just do all these things and close deals and they seemed so smooth. And I just wasn't there. I felt considerably more disjointed and couldn't figure out how they could just flow with things so easily. But I think that's part of discovering who you are as a salesperson is understanding your own style and not trying to mimic and be someone else because they are not you and you are not them. And so trusting in your own flow and your own abilities and developing your own rhythm. And I think that's probably the biggest lesson for me was, was to learn to trust myself and develop those pieces that I needed to develop.

46:11 Scott Ingram: So that is so, so interesting. And I think there's, there's some gold, especially in that last piece around really finding your own style. I mean, that's probably the biggest thing that I have learned through all of these interviews is everybody is different, right? There's not a top 1% salesperson template, right? It's really much, much more of a custom suit and you have to kind of figure out the tailoring. So, I want to talk about that a little bit more, but I also don't want to lose sight the fact that you came into sales later in your career and, you know, weren't necessarily sure that you were going to be good at it, right? And I think that's a choice that other people have. I would hope that this is a resource that maybe they come to, to find out and learn about sales and learn about the reality of what great sales is. So why don't we start there? What is is, what would you suggest to somebody that is thinking about making the move into sales and just sort of making that choice?

47:21 Liz Tolin: Yeah, you know, I would say if you're thinking about coming into sales, do it. I think there is very little that is just as rewarding as being in sales, but at the same time, it is so easy to try to view yourself in comparison to someone else. I think that's just something natural that we all do. You know, I'm not as blank. I don't do blank. But I think that's a really negative place to come from and think from. And so I would say if you are coming to sales to find your own rhythm, there's obviously things that you're going to have to do to follow the outline of what, what should happen, right? So in, in getting into a sales rhythm and what does it look like from initial contact with your customer through, you know, setting up follow-up calls and all those sort of things. Like, there's, those are those nuts and bolts that have to happen, right? But that's the skeleton of what goes on in a sales cycle. But the rest of it can be fleshed out by how you design yourself as a salesperson. And so, I think if you're coming into sales, I would say, don't look at just one type of salesperson, you know, look at, look at everyone, look and see what they're doing and see what's productive for them, but don't feel like that is the only way that you have to conduct yourself because as you start taking calls with clients, and as you start going through it, you're going to find your own rhythm and to not force yourself to be someone that you're not. So I think, I think that's the biggest piece is be true to yourself, listen to your own intuition, because oftentimes you're right. And we tend to stifle that inner voice because we think that if we're not being like this other person or we're not performing like X, then we're doing it wrong. And I think that's a a bad place to go from. I think, you know, listen, listen to that intuition, and I think you'll, you'll blossom beautifully.

49:17 Scott Ingram: So you are… I honestly think this is maybe the most important topic in, in just developing as a sales professional. How did you do that yourself? How did, how did you start to figure out what your style is and, and who Liz was as a sales professional?

49:37 Liz Tolin: You know, there was, I think, just listening to feedback from clients, listening to feedback from Mike, my VP, and having conversations not only with the customer, but with other folks in the company, other folks in sales, and really listening and not listening to say something next. Right? I think that's something that we're all very guilty of, is that when we listen to conversations, we're not actually listening, you know, to digest and understand and comprehend something. We're listening to respond next. And I think that's, that's something we all have to work on. And it works very well with your clients, is listening to what they're saying, not to respond with something, but to fully understand and to comprehend what's going on. So I think, you know, kind of getting back to the question, it, it was a lot of comprehension. It was a lot of taking pieces of advice, but at the same time, making it my own. So, you know, I had a colleague that worked here and he had a certain way of trying to reframe things to a customer and it worked very well for him. But when I tried to do that, it fell completely flat. Like I just fell on my face. So taking it and not being afraid to experiment with it, right? So twisting it into your own version and trying it out and seeing, did I get a response from that? Yes. Okay, great. That's a great foundation, but what can we do to build upon that? And understanding that it's not just going to be a light switch that gets flipped on. There's nothing that all of a sudden one day, poof, you are a top seller. Through constant repetition, through practice, through being able to do self-reflection and take all of that and turn it into a better version of yourself.

51:38 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So, so much good stuff in there. So especially the piece about, you know, you tried something that another colleague did well and you fell flat, but recognizing that, well, trying anything the first time, you know, like you're never good at anything the first time. And realizing you're going to have to try it a few times. And there's… it's probably a combination of both just getting better at that thing, but also developing your own style within that particular whatever it is, right? Technique or strategy or approach, right? Absolutely.

52:13 Liz Tolin: And even just verbiage, right? Like the words that he said sounded funny coming out of my mouth because it's not something that I would. Ever… it's not how I would ever phrase something. So, it's like delivering a joke that you didn't write, right? Like the punchline's all off because that wasn't how you would phrase it. So, yeah, absolutely. Just taking things that you know work, but morphing it and putting your own flair on it, your own style.

52:37 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Now, when you're having some of these conversations with your colleagues and things like that, are you asking them for advice? Like, how have you approached this? Because it sounds like you've been very kind of thoughtful and methodical about it.

52:52 Liz Tolin: Yeah, you know, we, we actually do a fun thing here. We call it sales call training, and we will all volunteer one of our calls. And, you know, it feels a little bit like sitting in front of the firing squad, but this is part of growth, right? Growth… if, if you're comfortable, if you're comfortable, then growth doesn't happen. So, so you have to be uncomfortable to get that, that growth and that change. So with that sales call training, we all volunteer a call, and then we will listen to it and sit down and digest it and then respond with, I would have approached it like this, or I didn't think to even say that. This was great. And being able to do that in a team setting really helps you not only, you know, change your skillset, but pick up on things that other folks are doing and then be able to use that. So it's kind of I don't want to say hive mind, but coming together in cooperation. And even if it's something that you didn't think to say, you can take that same concept and use it in your own style. And so, it's very, very much a team effort. And, you know, everyone here wants to see each other be successful. So, there's no weird trying to cut each other off at the legs kind of environment. Like, this is a very productive team, goal-oriented environment. And I think that's been wildly helpful in being a successful sales rep here.

54:16 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Now, is there anything else that you've done just to develop yourself over these last few years?

54:23 Liz Tolin: You know, practicing a lot of practice calls. So, even if it's not with a live client, talking… my poor husband… talking through things with my husband, and he has no idea what's going on, but I will talk through stuff with him and he'll say, eh, I didn't quite understand it. X, and so I'll retry it. Doing it with my VP, saying, you know, this is how I want to frame things. And he'll say, well, did you think about this? Or maybe twist it like that. And it's like, oh, and then that light bulb comes on, right? That yes, this is the way to go. And so, you know, we practice, practice like you play. And so, you know, you can't just practice on your customers because you're never going to get there. So practice with a colleague, practice with a friend, a spouse, anybody that'll listen. Talk at the dog if that's what you have to do, just to work through talking through problems and questions.

55:11 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So, so good. I mean, and that's, that is so much how I tend to operate. And it's really what I look for in a great sales manager or a great sales leader, right? Like, I don't need you to tell me how to do it because to your point earlier, that, that's like me wearing your suit. That's going to look really funny and probably just not come off right. But instead, Like, let's take this idea that I have and talk it through and improve it together so that it's still mine, right? And and so I think wherever you have to go to find those outlets and those channels, hopefully your your sales manager is one of those people. But absolutely, I don't know how useful my dog is.

55:54 Liz Tolin: Well, for some folk who I think you know maybe you're just getting used to talking, and and some folks are. Learn. Some folks have, you know, maybe a fear of public speaking or talking with strangers. And so even just getting used to just communicating, right, it's just something to do. But my sales VP is fantastic for talking through things, and I'll ping him all the time like, do you have 20 minutes? Because I need to walk through this with you, and I'm just thinking out loud, so don't nail me to the wall on it just yet. Just give me a second to process this. And then I think oftentimes as you're actually talking through it with someone, then things start clicking in your own brain. You're like, oh wait, that and, and you get that feedback that helps you in that development. That's, that's so good.

56:35 Scott Ingram: And I, I think the other thing that you can do is record yourself and, and listen to yourself. Now here's, here's an interesting sort of tidbit and I'll, I'll have to look and see if I can find an article that, that talks about this. Just put aside the fact that you hate listening to yourself on recording. It's, it's a human thing. I actually, I saw an article that was, and so I'll, I'll look for both of these and see if I can't find them. It was, it's the same thing and almost worse when you see yourself on video. And so this is like a scientific thing. The reason is you've looked at yourself the majority of the time throughout your life in a mirror. Well, in a mirror, you're backwards, right? When you see yourself on, on camera, you're not backwards. You're the way everybody else sees you, but it looks wrong. And I don't know, I don't know what the audio thing is. It's a, it's a similar deal. It's, it's, we hear, we hear ourselves in our head differently than the way everybody else hears us and the way that it has come out. So the point is, whether you're listening to yourself or you're having to suffer through watching yourself… I've gotten over the listening to myself part. I haven't gotten over the watching myself part. So you just have to sort of ignore that part and focus on the content. I think you can get sort of a similar set of value through that experience as well and know that it's not as bad as you think.

57:56 Liz Tolin: Absolutely. And that's part of that sales call training. And when it's your turn, you're listening to it and you're like, wow, do I really sound like that? And it's… but I think we're our own worst critics, right? So we tend to beat ourselves up horrendously. And so it's kind of trying to turn that part of your brain off to be able to focus on what your colleagues are saying and get that takeaway from that.

58:19 Scott Ingram: Exactly. Exactly. So, and I will be totally transparent here and say today, like, I just, I feel off. I'm not looking forward to listening to this podcast interview. Liz, you're doing great. I, on the other hand, am just not… something feels funky. And I'm… this is one where I'm like, I'm going to listen to that. Maybe I'll learn some things. And I'll think through how to be better about this. But so, but if you're listening to this, and you don't have that sense at all, that's the difference, right? Like, I'm super duper critical, because I'm me, right? Well, other folks may not be that way. Maybe you did hear this, and you're also critical. And you're also thinking, Scott, you kind of sucked today. No, it's just the way it is.

59:01 Liz Tolin: I would not say that at all.

59:04 Scott Ingram: Well, Liz, the, the last… actually, before I go to the very last kind of summary point, is there anything else that you were hoping to talk about today that somehow I just, I didn't get to or I didn't prompt?

59:16 Liz Tolin: You know, I would say if sales is where you want to be or where you think you want to be, you know, just know it is going to take work. It is going to take time. I don't think that there is a single person in sales that has ever existed that was just instantly good at it. This is a craft and it has to be honed and it has to be perfected. And even then, I don't know that, or at least I don't believe that perfection is something that is a one and done. I think that sales is something that will cause you to continually need to self-reflect and to continually grow and continue to learn. And so, if sales is something where you're at now and you're struggling, I would say, take a step back and just breathe for a moment and then press forward because it's going to take time. You will bust through this and you'll definitely get there. If this is what you want to do, you will get there. And if this is something that you're just starting out, same thing, just know that it's not going to be perfect overnight and have that patience and, you know, gumption to just… the tenacity to keep going. Awesome.

1:00:29 Scott Ingram: There is one more thing I, I want to ask about, and that is on behalf of all working parents. Oh boy, right? Because that, that certainly complicates things, right? It, it makes it, it makes it harder. I just… I'm gonna leave it open-ended. Like, I don't know how you're doing this by yourself with 4 kids. I mean, that, that is blowing my mind. Like my wife stays at home and I have 2 kids and I don't have any babies and, you know, and it's still hard. So how are you doing this?

1:01:03 Liz Tolin: Oh gosh. Well, first of all, if you're listening to this and you hear the continual thump, bang, roll, scratch, and noise that's coming from above me, I apologize. Uh, we've got, uh, the little one and, and the 5-year-old, the one who just turned 5 upstairs. And, you know, just house full of kids equals noise. So I apologize about that, but I guess that's just part of it. Right. And I think that kind of also does play into sales, right? You are a human and you have human things to do, like be a parent and have children and have interests in things that you're doing. But, you know, in terms of single parenting it right now, it is, it is something we take day by day and week by week until my husband comes home, but we You know, we got a nanny for the kids this year so that we would have help here at home, which has been really, really fantastic. And, you know, that's just step one, because I don't know if, if I had to inject driving back and forth from daycare every day into my routine that we would survive. But we also just try to stay busy, and I think that's something fun with sales is that it's continuously busy, right? There's lots of stuff to do, and it is exciting. And, and so that keeps me energized on a professional level, but then you know, just doing stuff with my family. We make a priority to, to do stuff on the weekends and try to get out there and, and have some form of adventure. And, you know, it's just day by day and, and week by week, and, you know, you celebrate the small victories.

1:02:31 Scott Ingram: Love it, love it. Good stuff. So we always… I mean, we talked about a ton of stuff, so much great advice. I, I try and, and create some type of Challenge for the person that's listening to this. So we do we release the interview episodes every two weeks. So between now and the next episode, what would you suggest that they do to improve themselves and improve their sales results?

1:02:56 Liz Tolin: Yeah, I would say if you haven't already, record yourself, just like we were talking about earlier. If sales call review is not something that you're currently doing. Doing, do it. I would say take that call and send it to your manager, send it to a colleague, and have them listen to it and, and give you honest feedback. But be willing and open to take that feedback. So that's, that's something that I would definitely challenge you to do. And if that's something that you're already doing, then I would say my challenge to you would be take the one thing that's on your plate right now that you are continuously putting off doing, that you're afraid to do, just rip off that Band-Aid and do it. Whether it's calling a client you haven't been in contact with a while, you know, and you're afraid of speaking with them, or you don't want to get whatever answer, just do it. Just pick up the phone and just do it. If you are putting off asking for a Just rip off the bandaid and do it. I think so. That's, that would be my piece. If, if you're not doing sales calls then and recording them and getting feedback, that would be my challenge to you. If you're already doing that, then I know there is something out there that, that you are hesitant to pull the trigger on. Just be brave, get out there and do it because you will feel so much better at the end of the day. And that energy that you've been holding onto, being afraid of whatever that item is, then you can turn around and focus back into your work.

1:04:27 Scott Ingram: That is, is so, so awesome. Liz, thank you so much for your time. And I have, I have a couple other things for you listening to this to do. So first, I hope you'll, you'll register for the webinar, or if, if it's after May 21st, just go to top1.fm/dale and we'll have details to get you the recording of the webinar. The other thing that we're doing through the month of May is the crowdfunding campaign for volume 2 of the Sales Success Stories book. And Liz, because she doesn't have enough on her plate, has agreed to contribute to that book. So you're going to be able to get even more brilliance from Liz. And I'm actually going to send you to the referral link so Liz gets credit for your contribution. If you go to top1.fm/lizbook, book that will take you to the crowdfunding campaign. You can see all the different options. There's some… what I would recommend at the very least, well, at the very least you can get the ebook for $10 or something. But what I would recommend is if you do the $50 level, you get every version of the book, you get advanced review copies, and best yet, you get your name in every single printed version and every electronic version. Of the book, and if you really want to go crazy and join us, and I still haven't talked to Liz about this, but I need to convince her to come to Austin in October for the Sales Success Summit because many of us are going to get together. A lot of the folks. My goal right now is for 25% of the audience. I can only have a max of 200 people. It's actually less than that because my video crew is going to take up the last row. So I don't know what my actual final count. Count is, but my goal is for 25% of that audience to have been folks that have been on the podcast. So if you enjoy interacting and hearing from and learning from people like Liz and DeJuan and Evan and all these folks, then you, you've gotta come join us. And that option is actually part of that crowdfunding campaign. So it's kind of the kitchen sink level. You get a ticket to the Sales Success Summit and pretty much anything else of value I have to offer you. So check that out, top1.fm/summit. Liz Book, and hopefully we'll be seeing you here in Austin in October. Liz, thanks again. You are incredible. You're so welcome.

1:06:50 Liz Tolin: Thank you so much for having me today. It's been a blast, so I really appreciate this time.

1:06:57 Scott Ingram: Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast. To be sure you never miss an episode, and for an invitation to our Sales Success Community powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter. Letter at top1.fm.