64: Jono Clegg - From Olympic Athlete to Medical Device Sales Athlete

0:08 Scott Ingram: You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve. To learn more, visit us at top1.fm. Here's your host, Scott Ingram. This episode of the Sales Success Stories podcast is brought to you thanks to the generous support of Dale Carnegie. To learn more, you can visit DaleCarnegie.com and keep listening for a special offer they have exclusively for listeners of this show. If you just can't wait, go to top1.fm/dale for all the details. Today on the Sales Success Stories podcast, my guest is Jono Clegg. Jono is the top territory manager at Wright Medical in the UK and was just named the number one international sales rep for 2018. Jono is also a former Olympian, so I'm super excited to dive into this conversation today for a couple of reasons. First, a lot of folks have expressed an interest in medical device sales. So I think we're going to be able to deliver on that. And for the rest of us, I think there's going to be a lot that we can learn in, in learning about Jono's transition from being an ultra-high performer in athletics to really being able to quickly transfer those skills to a completely different environment in sales. And I think his rise to the top will be fascinating. So, Jono, welcome to the show.

1:32 Jono Clegg: Hi, Scott. Thanks for having me.

1:33 Scott Ingram: So let's jump in like we always do with the top 3 things that you believe have allowed you to get to the top so quickly.

1:41 Jono Clegg: Yeah, no, I, first, thanks for having me, Scott. It's been a real pleasure listening to the Sales Success Podcast the last few years. So I'm really looking forward to getting stuck in and sharing some of my experiences. My top 3, I think, would be work-life balance, and I'm just going to go high level here, internal relationship building, And strive for constant feedback.

2:00 Scott Ingram: So let's talk about those one at a time. What does the work-life balance piece mean for you?

2:05 Jono Clegg: Yeah, I mean, for me, it's all about why, why, and Simon Sinek talks about this all the time. And for me, why do I do sales? Why do I work hard? And that for me is, is to live well. I want to work to live, not to live to work. Me and my wife have a real passion for travel. So that's a real big driver for us, having enough money to do, discover new places, experience new things. And from a professional sport, you learn that periods of rest and work hard go hand in hand, and that having that time to switch off is as key or even more important than the work itself. So I'd say like having that real balance between being able to work really hard during the week, but at the weekends and the evenings, switch off and take that step back and leave work where it is. And I think you had Nate Branscome on a couple of weeks ago where he spoke about the growth equation. And for me, that really relates well back to sport. And he spoke about sport in that one. And, uh, yeah, I think that's where I look, look out with that.

3:07 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. And we'll come back to that. I really want to understand sort of how you think about rest, because obviously that's a huge part of the athletic endeavors, right? So what, what does that mean? How do you, how do you apply that? But we'll come back to that. So your second thing was internal relationships. What does that mean?

3:22 Jono Clegg: Yeah, so I think in sales, we can all be, always be focused on being out in the customer's face and, and talking to customers all the time. And we can almost ignore those internal relationships, but what I've learned is we actually need to have more, or I actually have to have more of a focus on building internal relationships. I work out in the field a lot, so I'm not actually in the office, but we work cross-functionally with sales, marketing, customer service, success. And so actually having the key relationships within my business means that I can better serve my customers and bring in the right people at the right time to either push deals along, get things to happen quicker and means those internal conversations, if I've got good internal relationships, a lot easier to have. You, I think one of the big things I do is when I go in the office, I don't talk about work at all. I'm there to sort of just almost socialize with the people around me. So then when I can step away, I can still have that good relationship when we need to get things done for the customers.

4:20 Scott Ingram: Well, and it's probably helpful. Why don't we give kind of the Olympic context? Because I would think that given that you were part of a team sport and a very important, like team was a huge part of what you were doing, that has to sort of apply and, and influence what you're doing here with these internal relationships.

4:37 Jono Clegg: Yeah, definitely. Like, as a former athlete, what you were doing is you were the one on the, the playing field. I was an Olympic rower, so I was on the, on the rowing lake, and we were the ones obviously pulling the boat along. But before that, we'd had a coaching team, we'd had a nutritionist, we had our physiotherapist, you have your sports scientists, you have your data analysts, all those internal relationships that every day you're trying to get them to deliver the best for you. It means that having that relationship meant that I could then obviously go and go and have a really good conversation with the coach, an open, honest one. Or S&C coach, strength and conditioning coaches, you could go and speak to them about what's actually going to work, what, why we're doing something, can understand it so that you can perform better on, on the day. Yeah.

5:23 Scott Ingram: So now translate that to how do you think about maybe those different roles and the way that the works together in the way that you're kind of leveraging the internal relationships.

5:33 Jono Clegg: Yeah, so I think it's, it's always a very selfish thing to think as either a salesperson or as an athlete that everyone has to be behind you. They don't. There's other athletes out there, there's other salespeople they can work with. And so actually, if you're that person that they want to work with, that they want to succeed, they enjoy working with and things like that, that means everything happens for me, a lot more straightforward. It's a lot more natural. You're not fighting against people to say, well, I don't really like working with you, so I'll respond to you in 48 hours rather than 2 hours. Or as an athlete, it's like, I'll stay 30 minutes more in physio to treat you rather than see you tomorrow afternoon or something like that. Gotcha.

6:18 Scott Ingram: All right. And then talk about your last point.

6:20 Jono Clegg: So my last point, strive for constant feedback. Again, this, this comes back to being an athlete and if you're not moving forwards, you're, you're behind. And I always try and just get feedback from everyone that's around me, customers, colleagues, any process or action I've put in place. And you're just wanting that. For me, it's a, it's a craving to have feedback. I'll always, we go into a meeting and the first thing I'll ask when we come back out of it to whoever's come with me is how do they think that went? What could we have done better? Where could, uh, what could we have positioned or things like that? So that strive for constant feedback is always playing on my mind and always, I think, how can I, how can I have done that better? How can I, I'll send an email and straight away thinking, uh, reading it back straight away thinking, oh, what was good about that? What wasn't so good about that?

7:08 Scott Ingram: Before we talk about Jono's results, let me tell you about the special offer from Dale Carnegie that I alluded to at the start of the show. One of their core sales offerings is a course called Winning with Relationship Selling. It's all about learning how to operate in a more collaborative, confident, and credible manner to really connect with your customers in a more meaningful way to drive more business together. This is an online course that's conducted live with an instructor in a very interactive experience over the course of 8 weekly sessions that are each 2 hours. What makes this particular offer so special is that they're offering a course starting Friday, April 26th, that's only for Sales Success Stories listeners, and I'll be taking the course with you. So, in addition to the core content, there's a ton of opportunity to build relationships with the other participants in the class over the course of these 16 hours. But hurry, because the class is limited to just 16 people. For all the details and to register, go to top1.fm/dale, and I look forward to learning with you. So now let's start to provide just a little bit more of the context. Talk about your role and kind of the, your results to date.

8:26 Jono Clegg: Yeah. So, uh, I'm part of Wright Medical. We're an extremities-focused business in orthopedics, a medical device company. And my role in particular, I specialize in upper limb. So that's the shoulder replacements, elbow replacements, and hand and wrist joint prosthesis to help sort of provide prosthetic replacements to surgeons. And I think the big thing with medical devices, I think it's the same across the board with orthopedics, is our number one customer is still the surgeon. They're our number one economic buyer and they have sort of a really big influence. So it's a real customer relationship role. And so 60% of my time is account management. With existing business, I've either inherited on the patch or won since I began, but we have rolling years. And once we've started with an account, we provide the clinical support in terms of training, product support, in theater for 3 or 4 hour long operations. And as the account manager, I coordinate or provide that myself. And then the other 30 or 40% of my time is spent on new business opportunities with other hospitals or surgeons that aren't using it. Us and would we like to speak to all the time, see if there's opportunities for us to work with them or just keep in touch and see generally what they're doing.

9:47 Scott Ingram: Awesome. And then speak to your results just a bit.

9:49 Jono Clegg: I mean, with my results, so my first year was 2017, was my first full year. I came in as a sales associate into the industry and I quickly moved up to carrying the number for a territory, but as a sort of a caretaker role. But quickly that I got that whole role as myself. So 2017 was my first full year. And with that, we agreed that the job number one was to steady the business because it had been a declining patch. But actually towards the end of the year, it started to look really good. And we moved that patch into the number 2 in the UK. And then from number that, there was some big key accounts coming on in that year, which rolled into year 2 for me, so 2018, and I came from that and was named the number 1 salesperson of the year for last year.

10:39 Scott Ingram: That's fantastic. And so let's… this is your first role in sales. So I'm really curious in sort of the transition. So here you are, this Olympic rower, and first of all, why sales? And talk about sort of how you made that transition.

10:53 Jono Clegg: Yeah, so I think it's really hard to step away from my athletic career. I think when you're an athlete, you're you're always thinking, oh, okay, I can do this forever. You can do this forever. But it's actually, you've got, you come, comes a time where you can't retire off of Olympic sport. It's not the sort of Usain Bolt money. It's enough to get by and it's a good, it's a good grant and while you're doing it, but it's when you want to step away, you've got to go and find a proper job. So for me, it was at the end of that, looking at what skills do I have and what do I want to do? After it. And I just looked at the real transferable skills that I had, and I knew that I was really driven, motivated, and as an athlete, goal orientated. And at the time, my wife was in sales, so I immediately was sort of seeing the parallels myself every day. And I thought, that's something I'm quite interested in. I know that I'll be able to be driven and rewarded for good behaviors and things like that. So I literally started Googling sports sales jobs. 2 really important things I found. And so And what came back were some sort of recruitment pages on medical devices. So I sent my CV out to them and a lot of them came back in touch saying, oh, we like the look of your CV, but we're a little bit worried about what experience you have. So I had to go in for some pre-screening interviews, which was an extra step, but they actually saw that, okay, you've had an interest in anatomy and physiology when you're younger. So they sort of looked at the real strengths of being an athlete. And I found that in the industry, there are a lot of athletes, ex-athletes, former rugby players in the UK and high-level swimmers, things like that. So actually there were a lot of real parallels across that. And so I had got 2 interviews with medical device companies and I'd sort of say the rest is history. I think I landed on my feet with Wright Medical. They've been a really up-and-coming company, really striving to be the number one in extremities. Having good product development. And yeah, coming into it, I've not looked back at all.

12:58 Scott Ingram: That's fantastic. And again, I think a lot of people are interested in different ways in getting into medical device. What advice would you have for them other than, you know, have an amazing athletic background?

13:10 Jono Clegg: Yeah, so I think it's just have a real general interest in anatomy. If you're keen and passionate about anatomy and that sort of interest, Then also having strong personable skills. You've got to be able to hold conversations with surgeons at a high level, but also they don't want to talk about necessarily your stuff all the time. They want to be able to just have a nice conversation, step away from that. So just being personable. I guess the other ones on why, how, or how to get into medical devices is try and get some work experience in the industry. Try and spend some time in theater. I know that might sound quite… me saying it… quite easy, but just trying to identify maybe some friends or people, you know, that they can maybe take you out on a couple of days in theater, or even just looking at what they do, not necessarily in theater, but that sort of thing would be really useful.

14:05 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So talk about that some more. I mean, I'd love to just understand sort of broad strokes. What is the role? And when you say in theater, what does that mean?

14:13 Jono Clegg: Yeah, so I think my number one role is I'm a territory manager for a certain patch. So I have about 12 to 15 hospitals on my territory that I look after for the upper extremities. So some of those will be using our products currently, some of them won't. Those ones that are using our products currently, we actually, once we've done the whole sales cycle and a surgeon's agreed to use our product, when they use that product for the first few times, We are in theater providing technical support to that operation. So in my industry, that's shoulder replacement. So I'll be in there while a patient's having their shoulder replacement done. And I think I liken it to the fact that if, imagine if you went to the hardware store and bought a new screwdriver, you'd either have Black Decker or Bosch, and you would have, for instance, the Bosch rep coming with you and being able to give you the tips on how to use that product. Best the first couple of times you used it. It'd show you all the tips and tricks. And if there were any sort of instances of anything dropping on the floor or something like that, you'd be able to sort of have a workaround to help with that. We also then do all the, all the stuff alongside the actual procedure in terms of support there, making the kits there at the right time and making sure it's all sterilized and all of that sort of background work as well.

15:35 Scott Ingram: Got it. And so when you're, when you're in theater, I mean, you're literally talking about you're scrubbed in, you're in the OR, you're You're sort of advising the surgeon on the technical aspects of your particular device.

15:47 Jono Clegg: That's right. Yeah. So we're not quite scrubbed in. So that's one thing we're not allowed to do. So we're not allowed to scrub in. So what we do is we stand, we stand one layer back from the scrub tech and help talk them along. And then, yeah, they then pass the instruments across to the surgeon and then they use them on the patient. Yeah.

16:03 Scott Ingram: Perfect. Perfect. And then obviously you're still relatively new to this, but anything that you would have done differently, kind of knowing what you know now? Coming into the industry?

16:13 Jono Clegg: I think the biggest thing that I'd have done differently is having been an athlete, I'd have probably got myself sorted a little bit earlier. So I said, I spoke about having some work experience and doing that. So I'd have probably looked to get myself a bit more of work experience, trying to get stuff alongside my athletic career sorted a bit more. There's a big push in the UK now for professional sports people to have that stuff alongside them, professional development. And so I think trying to take some opportunities alongside would have been a lot better for me. But I don't think I'd have necessarily changed too much because I feel that, as I think a lot of people who have been on the Sales Success Stories have spoken, is that actually what happens where you are now is a product of what's happened to you in the past. So I think not changing too much, but maybe trying to get a little bit more industry experience beforehand.

17:05 Scott Ingram: Gotcha. And then what's, what's your favorite story so far?

17:08 Jono Clegg: A sales story?

17:10 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

17:10 Jono Clegg: So yeah, so my favorite sales story to date is actually probably my first sales meeting at Wright Medical. We went in to see, I lined up a meeting with a new surgeon who wasn't using our products and he seemed really keen at first and he was like, yeah, come on in, bring your stuff. So we'd take it into the coffee room and we took it all into the coffee room and he looked at it and he was like, yeah, look, really interested, talked him through it and stuff like that. And then at the end, he just started talking about his own research and data that he was doing and speaking more about us and trying to sell us what he had to use. And so I think my lesson from that was, I think if someone's too keen, they probably are, and that you probably haven't qualified them enough. But going away from that story that I sort of took from that was that no meeting is a bad one, and you can just review, learn, and adapt your approach for the next time and take take that forwards.

18:06 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's awesome. And I think, I mean, especially when, when you're taking on those first meetings and you're new, although I think this is valid anytime, like sometimes just, just the at-bats are important. Like sometimes you just have to get up there and take a bunch of swings to start to figure out what, what's going to work and develop your style and that kind of stuff.

18:25 Jono Clegg: Yeah, definitely. You've… that's all part of the formative process. And I think, you know, another lesson from that was just getting out there and You can try and be prepared too much and you can try… I'm a planner by nature. You probably saw that from some of the emails I was sending you beforehand, but I like to know all the detail beforehand. And so I've actually had to learn and adapt in this role that I might have 5 minutes in a coffee room with a surgeon that I've been trying to see for weeks, and I can't necessarily be as planned as I wanted to be. So you've got to learn to adapt and change all the time. And I think that's a real crucial role as a salesperson. Is being adaptable and just sort of, like you said, taking hits and taking them, but trying to be as level as you can with that.

19:08 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. So from a sales role perspective, what are you most proud of from an accomplishment perspective?

19:15 Jono Clegg: So for me, the most successful thing that I've sort of, or the thing I'm most proud of was actually last year hitting my number in August. So our year works from January to December. So I hit that 4 months early. And this was a personal goal I'd set myself because actually last year I was getting married in September. And so I sort of had an inkling I could be on for a good year, but I set myself a real high, high-level target of trying to hit my number by August. And yeah, so by the time I got there, sort of, it was on track in June, July, and then it was trying to make sure that everything was sorted before I got went off for our wedding and honeymoon so that I could be in the right headspace to enjoy that and leave my phone home switched off in the cupboard. I said that would be the thing that I'm most proud of. Yeah.

20:04 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. And I know that goal setting is a big part of your process. So maybe talk us through that using that example, right? So the idea is, hey, I want to be at my number by the time I'm getting married in, you know, really the end of Q3. How did you go about that? What did that look like?

20:20 Jono Clegg: Yeah. So I think at this stage, what I should do is explain how our numbers are sort of worked. We are a sort of recurring revenue basis. So we have a patch. For instance, if my patch was $1 million, I would have to hit $1 million plus the number that I was given. So for instance, $100,000 for 2017. So that my number would be $1.1 million that I'd have to hit. So I'd, most of that would have been existing business from the previous year, and then that $100,000 of growth. So what I did is obviously look at how 2017 was, and I'd been given my 2018 number. And that… so I was having to hit that $1.1 million, for example, by August. And so how I broke that down was looking at our daily, daily run rate, how, how many operations would have to be in a day, and how many in a week, and then just try and take it right back to how, how my activity had to be with that. So I was looking at 2 new business meetings a week, 4 to 10 sort of new business calls or emails. And in terms of amount of caseload I'd have to be doing was 10, 10 operations in a week that I'd have to be having made sure went ahead on my, my patch.

21:37 Scott Ingram: Oh, the end. Yes.

21:40 Jono Clegg: So, uh, no, not quite the end. And so in terms of the goals I'd set, set for that, it was, it was taking it right down to actually what was the foundational work I'd have, have to do, and then, and sort of targeting 2 or 3 key accounts that would get those numbers rolling in and get those sort of new business numbers coming in. Got it.

22:00 Scott Ingram: So really just about having a strong territory plan. So here's the number, walking that backwards, and we've certainly talked about this a lot on the show before, right? So this is where I'm trying to get to, walking that back, getting down to the specifics of which accounts are going to get me there, which, which clients or surgeons, then, then just Working the plan, right?

22:19 Jono Clegg: Definitely. I'm, I said I'm a planner by nature and I, I literally trust my plan to the, to the letter. If I've sort of taken a step back, planned it out, I will then go and carry that out and just not hope, but actual trust that, that carrying out that plan will work if I've done it in the right way. Yeah.

22:37 Scott Ingram: Awesome. So this is probably a good point to, to bring back that, that rest deep dive, right? So how did sort of the rest and recovery work into that sort of phase of, of your plan? What were you doing? How were you doing that? Or was it more of a, hey, I'm, I'll rest and recover as we get to the honeymoon. And right now I'm going to really go all out.

22:58 Jono Clegg: No. So for me, it's definitely rest and it's periods of real work hard, but then, then have to take a little bit of rest and stuff like that. So my working week, I know I said about my rhythm and cadence there, that might all happen in 2 days. And then I might have 3 days of the week where I'm literally not diary empty, but there's not as much on. So I can, I can use that time to rest. So there, for instance, there's some mornings where I'll have 3 surgeons operating and I've got to dash from one hospital to another, started at 5 o'clock in the morning, and then you won't finish until 7, 8 o'clock at night. But then there's days where you can get out in the morning and exercise beforehand, and then you've got a meeting at 11 o'clock, and then you've just got to go and check some kits in the afternoon. And those sort of days are the way days that I take my rest. I think how I like to rest is obviously a former athlete, so I still get out and go out on the water in my boat. Or at the moment, I'm actually training for a marathon. So it's a lot of pounding the road with the miles in the legs and getting out on the runs.

24:07 Scott Ingram: Well, I figured as an athlete that you would maintain some level of action kind of to maintain stress levels. And it's interesting that you consider that to be part of your recovery now. I get it. You know, whereas that, that was the work before, now it's the recovery. But I think from a headspace standpoint, that makes a ton of sense. Let's… before we go into kind of the routine stuff that I love, I want to talk about the flip side. We talked about kind of your accomplishment. What have you found to be the most challenging?

24:36 Jono Clegg: So I think for me, actually, this goes back to when I was a sportsperson. And I think this relates well to work and everything like that. Because This was a huge setback. And I, in 2013, I ended up getting a really bad injury. I'd spent years, 6, 7 years of never having an injury and being really quite robust as an athlete. But in 2013, I had a fall on a cycling camp in December. Initially, it was just a few scrapes and cuts, but I soldiered on through the rest of the camp and everything and went off for Christmas break and we came back from from Christmas and went straight off on another camp. But I could start to feel that something wasn't quite right. But we had a really competitive group. And the thing with that is you don't want to miss out. And so I kept pushing myself and got through the camp. But when we got home, we had some real assessments to do. And these were big Olympic test assessments and making sure that you're strong for these really mattered. But what I ended up having to do was, I was missing those tests because my back went. And this led to a series of scans that confirmed I had a tear in my hip joint. And this is actually really useful in my day life now that having this, that's the injury story, can relate to surgeons. But the challenge was that, was this is something I'd never experienced before. I'd never had an injury. So what did I do there? This is where I really leaned on everyone around me, the people that had injuries before, my team, my physios, and basically just worked my goals into this new injury and working back and working on my weaknesses and ended up coming back from that and had my most successful trial in April. So from having my first injury in December to back to full fitness and performing actually better, I think the lesson I learned from there is that when you're struggling, this is actually a real opportunity and you've got to take the opportunities when they come, whether they're good or bad, and just, and every one is a chance to learn and reassess what you you do right and to test really. Yeah, I'd say that was the biggest challenge that I come back from. And I use that, that now every day in terms of every opportunity I have, good, bad, is a learning, learning opportunity.

26:49 Scott Ingram: That's fantastic. And so you're prompting so many follow-up questions. So first, just as a placeholder, because I don't want to forget it, the one question I have is just understanding like how much like story and your background comes into the conversations that you're having with these surgeons. But before that, When you think about, I mean, at the end of the day, whether you're developing athletically and you're trying to improve performance, or you're developing as a sales professional and you're trying to improve your revenue performance, like, how do you think about those things? Because you've had, like, a lot to learn, right? There is all of the medical elements of what you're doing. There's all of the sales elements of what you're doing. What has been your process for really developing yourself into the sales athlete that you are today?

27:40 Jono Clegg: Yeah, I think that's a great question. I think with Wright Medical, we have a really good onboarding structure. So we're from day one, we're straight out there. You're getting used to that new routine. And I felt so out of my depth for 6 weeks. Like I'd never been in theater before. And then suddenly you're in theater twice a day. It's an uncomfortable and challenging environment because you don't know when you can speak, when you can't speak. So I would come home absolutely exhausted. But that exhaustion was totally different. That was a mind exhaustion compared to when I was an athlete. So physically, I knew I could cope with it. And mentally, I knew I would be able to as well. So I think having that confidence in yourself is a good thing to have. But it was just trying to create a routine. And I will go into this a bit later, but it's just trying to think of how can I make this similar to what I've done before? Like I was an athlete before, I'd manage long days, I'd graft tiring days, pressure. So I had all that, that relative experience. I just hadn't had it in the same situation. So I could draw on, on that experience when I needed to and just figure out what the new process was for that and whether that was speaking to my manager in an open, open forum. And they're great for this in terms of they're always checking in, checking that we're fine, we've got everything that we need. Or it was just having that right balance that at the end of the day, I went home, put my phone in the cupboard and just, and went off on a run or off, off in the boat for a row.

29:08 Scott Ingram: And what about kind of other elements of, of personal development, right? Because I'm sure there are things that you've wanted to work on yourself as, as you've kind of grown in this role.

29:18 Jono Clegg: Yeah, I think that's how I found your podcast, really. It's, I think for me, like, my struggle for constant feedback led me to your podcast. I was Googling sort of ideas of how to, to do it. And I started seeing people listening to podcasts and how, how big that's coming up. And I, I just came across yours by searching, searching on it. And I just loved hearing from other top salespeople what they do. And some of it, I really resonate with it. Some of it I don't, but I think it's just listening and trying to gather as much information from it as possible so that you can then relate that into your industry. And for that, what I'm trying to do is I'm thinking of the conversations I'm having daily and how can I help those customers in terms of those conversations and provide them as much information they need as possible. So that they can make the right decisions for their patients.

30:06 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So I love that, right? So you've used this podcast as a learning tool. I'm interested in how have you done that specifically? So first of all, when do you listen? And then how are you… because what I love about what you said is not all of it's relevant, right? I mean, there's, there's a lot of things, especially for those of us who aren't in medical device sales, there's a lot of things you're going to talk about that aren't necessarily relevant. How have you sort of gleaned the things that are important to you and incorporated those and just kind of what's your process there?

30:37 Jono Clegg: So I think to answer your first question of when do I make time for the podcast, I think I spend sometimes up to 5 hours a day driving. So that's the number one. I have the podcast stored and when I've got a long drive, I think yours is almost too short actually for my drive sometimes.

30:52 Scott Ingram: You're the first person to have ever said that.

30:57 Jono Clegg: So I can do a 2-hour drive so I can finish 2 of yours nearly in that time. So that's, that's, uh, it's really good. So in terms of cramming it all in, I could, I definitely have a, have time for the podcast. I guess the other one is how do I decide what to put into my, my process and bring in? And I think what I've done is I just, I like the challenge bit at the end where it's like, right, do you, can you implement something? But I also like the simplistic lessons where there was one I can't remember which one it was, but they talked about their cadence and trying to discover your cadence. And I did that and I went away, figured out what my cadence was, and have now in 2019, when I've now got a patch that was twice as big as when I took it on in 2016, I'm trying to obviously manage all of that, but try and keep the new business coming in as well and speaking to the new customers. As much as possible. So I've just tried to implement my own sort of lessons from the podcast into my day, daily routine. So the cadence one's a big one for me.

32:05 Scott Ingram: Yeah, great, great stuff. All right, let's, let's get into the routine piece. And I know you know the process here. So alarm goes off, what time? Walk us through.

32:14 Jono Clegg: So I'm massively routine by nature. Previously, I, as an athlete, it was literally my alarm went off at 6 o'clock every morning, I'd be on that. Nowadays though, my alarm can be going off at 5 or 7. It does vary. So what I try and do rather than think, okay, I'm not going to have a routine, is I put a structure into my day. So there's a key few tasks that I have to have done in my day. And that starts sort of the afternoon before confirming any operations or meetings that are still going on. So I'm not going to waste my day the next morning turning up and it's been canceled. So I check that the night before. And then in the morning, I'll be checking our reports that come in to make sure that items have sort of been checked off because they have been sent out to hospitals, kits have been delivered and stuff like that. And then I'll get into my sort of daily routine of, I'm actually quite food-based as well. So I make sure that I have my meals. So I have breakfast every day before I leave the house. At the moment, I'm going through a routine of Birchup muesli. So making that the night before, looking forward to the having that when I wake up. And then actually I use my lunchtime and then my dinner as my sort of key touchpoints in the day to sort of make sure that I've got that structure in so that even if I'm off round working flat out for 4 hours, by the time I get to lunch, I actually take 30 minutes to just stop, have a bite to eat, recharge, and then reassess. And then in the afternoon, I feel like I'm able to go again at the same, same rate until dinnertime. So it sounds quite sort of structured around food in that way, but it's a passion of mine as well. So I try and fit in my passions to my structure and things like that.

33:59 Scott Ingram: Well, it makes so much sense, right? And I mean, obviously coming from an athletic background, like nutrition is such a core part of that and a huge piece of performance. I think that it's something that we probably don't think about enough of in sales and, and particularly when you're traveling and everything else. Right. And you have all of these challenges around, let's call it available nutrition because it's going to impact your performance. And, and, you know, and you were talking about earlier just kind of the, the mental stamina and the mental endurance that, that are required. It's not, it's not about the physicality as much anymore. It's about just being able to kind of hang in there and, and be at the top of your game. So, That's interesting. That's actually going to give me something to think about of like, what is the fuel for the mental performance that we have to do every day?

34:50 Jono Clegg: Yeah, definitely. I think a lot of people miss that trick of not stopping and having lunch. I think some people skip breakfast and think, I'll just get straight out there and catch it later in the day. But I think people should think about how you may be feeling in the afternoon and like crashing like that. And yeah, as an athlete, you never performed when you didn't eat properly. So nutrition is a massive key. And if I think if you can have that as a balance as a normal person anyway, or as really driven people, that's a good balance.

35:19 Scott Ingram: Yeah, good stuff. So what are the other kind of core habits and routines? And maybe you want to talk about your kind of the cadence that you've developed at this stage a little bit more, those kinds of things.

35:31 Jono Clegg: Yeah, so I think the cadence that I'm doing, I know everyone varies in this thing, so I'll just, I'll tell you what my cadence is and people can take take what they want out of it. For medical device people, it might resonate a bit more. For the software salespeople, it might be completely different. But for me, it's looking at having firstly, a lot of my businesses is recurring revenue, but we have to be there. So it's number one is making sure those operations go ahead that week. So it's sort of my cadence is I need to have 10 operations a week going on for me to be able to be successful. The other one is then it's 4 new business calls or emails a week. So making sure that those are sort of pipeline generation ones or early stage opportunities. And then the second one, or the last one would be 2 meetings. And those are sort of ones that are moving up the funnel that are really targeted. Why we know why we're going to meet, what we're going to do. And so that's how I sort of structure those core habits and routines around those. And then the other stuff alongside that is staying up to date on competitors, what new product launches they've got coming on. What keeping up to date with our current sort of thinking within our company, what we're doing as well as a company. And then the final thing that I, so we've touched on before, is gym and exercise and making sure that I still got a good routine in that. So like I said, this year I'm running the marathon. I set myself different challenges and looking for those drivers outside of work as well.

37:03 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So the question I have is around just making the 10 surgeries a week work from a scheduling perspective? Like, what do you do when there's conflicts? Like, how much control do you have over that? Or do you have somebody else on the team that's able to kind of back you up? How does that happen?

37:21 Jono Clegg: Yeah, great question. I think what we've got in the UK, and especially we're split into north and south, is in the southern team, we've got a really good team ethos. So we help each other out. So we've got 6 territory managers, and we've got then 2 sales associates who help us sort of freely moving. So they sort of float around us. They're not assigned to any one of us in particular. So number one, those 2 guys are there. So if I've got 3 surgeries happening at the same time, I can get to one, one of them can get to another, and the other can get to the other. But the other thing is we'll just, we'll help each other out. So if there's other territory managers, we'll go and help support their operations if they need to go off to another one, or they've got got new customers they need to speak to. So we do that. The other thing is, the other part of the question was, if there's any conflicts, can we do anything about that? I think that's where you're having the strong relationships with your customers. So there's times I have been able to speak to surgeons and ask them to reschedule a case to the afternoon rather than the morning, because we've got a good relationship. So that's a power as well. The other time is that this is when they're getting up and running. So sometimes as the surgeons are are happier and they're, they're more confident in their team, they'll actually be able to go without support. So those are the sort of ones where you focus on training, going and doing lunchtime training sessions with the scrub staff or evenings training sessions. So there's a big focus for me on doing some training on my, my bigger accounts as well.

38:50 Scott Ingram: Got it. So I guess there's a lot of variability in this. I'm curious to what's the average kind of total work week in terms of number of hours that you're putting in?

38:59 Jono Clegg: I've never added it up because I don't think I want to. But I mean, like I said, what I try and do is within, within the week, I try and balance it. I'm having a spate or run at the moment where I've had Saturday work for the last 6 weeks, which is, is quite abnormal. But at the same time, I've had Friday afternoons and Friday mornings a lot freer. So there's not been operations on those days. So I think to answer, to answer your question simply, it's probably only around 40 hours of actual work time in the week, but you might add on a few hours extra of driving on top of that. But that, that's then tempered with the fact that sometimes you spent time in the coffee room waiting for an operation to start. So you can get some work done at that time as well.

39:47 Scott Ingram: Sure. Okay. So information diet, I'm super interested in what else are you consuming beyond this podcast? Yeah.

39:55 Jono Clegg: So for everything relative to my, my market, I've got Google Alerts set up. So for competitors, for shoulders in general, trends and everything within that, I'm constantly trying to stay up to date with literature. So we have to, so we keep a use Google Scholar as a really great one for that. And just seeing, setting alerts up in that and having those come into your inbox. Brian Burns has got a really good podcast as well, The Brutal Truth About Sales and Selling. So that's it. I really like that one as well. So I think that's more of a training tool in actual methodologies and things like that, separate to yours, which is really great sales success stories, so personal stories of direct salespeople. So I think they both complement each other really well. So hopefully you're not going to lose too many listeners just to Brian.

40:43 Scott Ingram: No, no, not actually. You know, I think the thing is the beauty of the podcast space and the book space and things like that. What most of us probably do in our day job is it's not zero-sum, right? Somebody that listens to my show or Brian's show or anybody else's show is probably more likely to listen to the others. So I, I totally open to, you know, this being a discovery platform and people finding, you know, the, the shows that resonate with them the most and that are gonna, gonna help them the most. So that's, that's totally fair game. What about other tools and apps that you're using?

41:16 Jono Clegg: Yeah, so I think one more on that, the information diet was Trigger Point Selling. That's a book that I've been reading. And I think it's all about timing and triggers of why people might be wanting to buy. So I think that's a real… in my industry, I've noticed that change is a massive driver for buying. And so I've really enjoyed reading that Trigger Point Selling and putting a bit of process around it. In terms of the Other apps and tools that I think I couldn't live without, my calendar, and then notes. I use just a simple notes thing all the time, just so that I've got them searchable and on my phone because I'm traveling all the time. I don't have all the time to open up the laptop, sit down, type it all up. So definitely anything that's on the device. I do like using an Excel spreadsheet for keeping track of all the operations and kit. And everything like that. And as I said before, Scholar on Google is a really good one of staying up to date with the industry.

42:16 Scott Ingram: Got it. That's good stuff. And the book you mentioned earlier, The Trigger Points, we'll make sure to put that in the, in the show notes. And my numbering is getting crazy because I've got like 3 interviews over the course of 4 days here. So if you're listening to this, if you just go to top1.fm/jono, J-O-N-O, we'll have it linked up there so that you can find links to everything. That we've been talking about here today. So, Jono, is there a particular sales philosophy that you subscribe to?

42:44 Jono Clegg: This is something, as, as being a planner and process-oriented person, I've, I've tried to see if there is. I think it's very difficult for… to try and find anything particular to medical devices. So I think that's why I was led to your podcast, really, of trying to see what other industries do. And I think I have looked to other industries. And one that's come out is, uh, is MEDDPICC, which I think… have you heard of that one before?

43:08 Scott Ingram: Oh, oh yeah. In fact, I think if you Google MEDDPICC, which is M-E-D-D-P-I-C-C, I think this podcast comes up for about half of the results, thanks to the work, thanks to the work of David Weiss, who's, who's done some pretty deep dive stuff on it, including a presentation last year at the Sales Success Summit. So absolutely familiar with it. It's great, great, great process. Talk about it though.

43:29 Jono Clegg: Yeah. Yeah. So like, I think, as you, as you know, it's a really simple sort of 8 key points of, and I think each of those, if I look back on my, on my big wins, I've had all of those aligned. So just being able to identify in a simple way and basically put in those key points next to each of those ones. And if you've ticked off all 8 ones, that deal is most likely going to close. You're probably going to get that customer spending with you, using with you. And if you've got a big red mark against one of them, you know, where to focus your work and effort to make sure you're getting that ticked off. So I think that's a really simple way of doing it alongside obviously having a clear sales funnel, knowing what you need to do with your company and business to move people up through the funnel. And we've always got to be moving them that way. And then the other one is thinking of challenger sale. We've got, I know that our surgeons and customers have gone through 17, 20 years worth of training. I mean, I haven't, but can I ask them some really intelligent questions that challenge their way of thinking, that bring me up to their level quite quickly and they start respecting us? Because ultimately they have to have that respect and trust in theater with us. And I strongly believe people work with people.

44:45 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. So we'll do a couple of things. One, we'll connect the different MEDDPICC resources again in the show notes at top1.fm/jono. There's probably 3, and I'm mostly calling this out for my team just so we can get the links in there. So, David Weiss. So, first of all, if you join the mailing list, if you're not already on the listener list, when you do that, I'll send you any of the presentations that you want, any one of the presentations you want from the Sales Success Summit. So, if you ask for David Weiss's presentation, that would be one. He also contributed a story to the book called The Year I Doubled My Income or Doubled My Sales that basically is a med pick story. He attributes that to having learned and practiced med picking. And I think I've shared that as a sample story here on the podcast. You don't even have to go buy the book to get that. And then the third one is I've just pulled out some, some various clips from the full interview with David where we talk about MEDDPICC again, or that was actually the first time, but I've just pulled out a 2 or 3 minute clip of him describing the process. So we'll, we'll link all of that in those show notes. So MEDDPICC Challenger, Jono, how would you describe sort of your style in the way that you're doing that approach? And I'm also going to bring back the placeholder that I had where I asked before about kind of how you're incorporating story. So your injury story, your experience, and everything else kind of into all of that.

46:12 Jono Clegg: Yeah. So I think firstly, I'll start with my style. I think it's taken me a while to sort of get my style there. And when I first came into the business, like what the top people were doing and tried copying, and I quickly realized that you can't copy. You've got to develop your own style and you've got to be your own person when you're speaking to people and you're spending so much time with them. If I'm spending 4 hours of time in theater with a surgeon, I can't be fake for 4 hours. I might be able to manage it for 10 minutes or something, but you're not going to be able to fake that. Being a relationship builder and just being yourself. And then actually, obviously, you've got to reflect their personality type. So identifying what their personality type is and matching yourself to that, or at least having those talking points around it. So for example, some of our surgeons, and you might think all surgeons are analytically minded, but a lot of them don't want to talk about it at all. But some of them really do. So some of them will want lots of research papers to back up why something's happening. They'll want to talk about that all the time. That's the sort of interest things that get them going. But then you've got other ones who are just real drivers. And those are normally the ones that like the new innovative things, want to get moving straight away with a new product because they feel that actually if that's being developed, then that might be a lot better. So they'll want to try that out straight away. So trying to figure out people and their personality types is a big, big part of my style. And I listened to your podcast, obviously, the other day, and I think you hit the nail on the head of what I'd been looking for to describe mine when I'd seen the questions you'd be asking. And I think I try and project manage the opportunity in, I own the deal and I own the opportunity and I'm the person that that is the point of contact, but I know that I'm not the most technically gifted person in our team or have the best negotiating skills. So I lean on the people around me, and that swings back to my internal relationships in terms of bringing people in when you need them and letting them do the work that'd probably take you forever to do.

48:25 Scott Ingram: Yeah, so I want to double down on, on a couple of pieces there. The one thing that you said earlier that I think is so, so key is you can't copy somebody else's style, right? Like, you, you can't be somebody else. And, and that's… I mean, if you're listening to this show, right, and you're looking to kind of get those insights and improve yourself, which I assume that's probably why you're here, what you're doing is ultimately the, the way to leverage this is to glean the pieces, but you, you're ultimately bringing them into your own style because that is what's going to make the difference. And I, I've got… I can't share the story quite yet, but there are some things that are going on for me right now that are 100% because I'm just me and not trying to be somebody else. Right. I'm just trying to be the best version of myself. And that is what resonates. Right. So I think it's really finding that. And then I have gotten so many comments. You're referring to my being my own guest on the podcast. And I'm pretty sure it was episode 62. This whole project management of sales. I hadn't ever, and that's the power of this show, right? Is it just kind of forces you to think about like, okay, wait, why am I successful? What is it about what I'm doing? And it was literally the morning of the interview that I had sort of this epiphany that I was like, wait a minute. Like so much of what I'm doing is this project management idea. And I'm gonna go a little bit deeper on this in, in a couple of areas. I'll probably incorporate some, a story. I'll have to write something for, we're, we're already well into volume 2. Of the Sales Success Stories book. So I may write a story in there. But just this idea of de-risking the conversation or de-risking what you're delivering for your clients, right? There's, there's always risk and all of the change that goes with that. And when you're managing things like a project like that, and you're basically just laying out like, here's the roadmap, here's how we're going to do this, here are all the steps. It helps them see like, oh, okay, this is going to be a reality. Like, even if they believe it, but they haven't connected the dots of how is this actually going to work for me in my situation, I think that's really powerful. So, just all of this feedback has had me thinking a lot more about this whole idea of sales as project management. So, I'll be doing some more development work on that because I think there's really, really something there.

50:57 Jono Clegg: Sounds like there's a book in there, Scott.

50:58 Scott Ingram: Well, not a whole book. I don't ever write anything entirely on my own. Like, you realize I write books where I write 7% of them. So I don't know that that falls into my whole curation ethos, but we'll see what happens.

51:12 Jono Clegg: I think you definitely hit the nail on the head there with the project management, because as… I can't remember who it was that interviewed you, can't remember his name, but as he said, a project manager has dates and timelines and keeps a project on those rails. And that, that's what we're ultimately trying to do in sales is everyone in our business wants to know when a deal's gonna close. And if you put dates on it and then hold everyone to account on those dates, then you can more likely forecast when that, when that's gonna come in, can't you?

51:41 Scott Ingram: Exactly. Exactly. Great stuff. So let's talk about, I'm really, really interested in just your thoughts on motivation. Like how do you think about motivation in sales? What does that look like for you? How do you, how do you keep that in check?

51:54 Jono Clegg: Yeah, I think for me, this is something that's always naturally, I've always been motivated. So it's the first time I really thought about how it motivates me is when I was interviewing for jobs itself. As an athlete, you've got that self-motivation and you don't get paid overly well. Again, like I said earlier, it was, it's enough to live on, but it's not like a footballer or an AFL sort of quarterback salary. But what you're doing is you're, it's an internal motivation. But for me, number one, it's the acceptance of others. And I think this stems at a young age from being told that I wasn't actually going to be that good at sport. And actually, I wanted to go and prove those people wrong. So if someone tells me that I can't or won't do something, then that's what's going to drive me all the way until I reach that goal. And some people had said that, oh no, you're not going to make the Olympics. And so for me, when I was racing for that last seat in the Olympic team, that's what was running through my head and pushed me above my own limits that I thought I was capable of to be able to perform on that one selection day that needed and was counted and got me that seat on the plane to Rio. So yeah, for me, it's that acceptance of others and I've brought that into sales itself now.

53:12 Scott Ingram: Awesome. And I wanted to ask also, so you mentioned your wife is in sales. Talk about kind of the type of work that she does and just the dynamic of having 2 sellers in the household.

53:24 Jono Clegg: Yeah, we get asked that quite a lot. It must be an ultra-competitive household. It is, but it's really complementary. Alyce, my wife, works now for Snowflake. So I think you may have heard of them, Scott.

53:38 Scott Ingram: I have, absolutely. I have some friends over there.

53:40 Jono Clegg: Okay. Yeah. So she's recently moved over to that. So she's working in data warehousing and sales around that. So, it never gets competitive. We're obviously not working for competitors. So, that's a number one, that's good, it works. But we can use each other as a soundboard. So, we do like to have separation away from work, and we'll always say, right, we're not talking about work now. But actually, sometimes it's the best way to get something off your chest and talk something out in a really open and honest way. And we both get it. We know that some days can be really tough. And no one's getting back to you and everything seems dead and you're like, am I going to survive this quarter? Or the next time you can be like, you can celebrate those highs and actually have someone who understands actually what just getting a reply to an email means. Because we all know getting that reply from that cold calling or cold emailing you've been doing is actually a bigger win than the deal itself.

54:35 Scott Ingram: That's fantastic. And, you know, I think I can totally see the advantages now because that is so much of the way that I operate. I mean, the way that I personally leverage my manager and my mentors and just the friends around me is predominantly as that sounding board thing, right? Like, I already have a pretty good idea. Let me kind of talk this out and just letting them sort of ask me some questions about it and, and just that refinement process of being able to talk it through is so, so powerful. So that to have that living with you is, that's pretty cool.

55:09 Jono Clegg: Yeah, I think we definitely enjoy it, and there are definite times where we have to go. Right, let's stop talking about work though because we're both passionate about it, and she's doing she's doing great as well. So it's really it's really nice to be able to enjoy that together.

55:22 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's awesome. And you get to go to two presidents clubs ideally, right?

55:26 Jono Clegg: That's the aim. Hopefully, well, we we shall see.

55:28 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's awesome. So Jono, is there something you believe that the average medical device sales rep would think is crazy?

55:37 Jono Clegg: Yeah, this is a funny one. I think I've already had it from my colleagues. It's that I leave my work away from me in the evenings and leave it at home on holidays. I have 2 separate phones still. So that real separation means that I can leave that at home. I think we all like to think we're indispensable and our territories would crumble without us and it'd be the end of the world. But actually, it does seem to happen when we're not there. So I really think that our holiday and home time is our time. We aren't paid for that. And so having that balance lets me commit when I'm working, but it allows me to step away when I'm not.

56:13 Scott Ingram: That's fantastic. Now, what about the flip side? Is there something that they believe that you think is crazy?

56:19 Jono Clegg: So yeah, I think the thing that I think is, is a bit crazy that we, we think we live in this world at the moment where we're indispensable and things like that. And actually having that, if we think about it, that if we set everything well and leave everything that we can hand over, that actually we leave it in a good situation. So for instance, when I, if you go on off on holiday, if you leave everything able to run, then it's not impossible to run it. So I like to like have everything organized and so hand it off to someone so that, that when they, they come to look after my patch when I'm away, that it all runs okay. And I think some people think that's really hard to do, but for me, it's just putting that routine and structure and process into it. It during the time that I am working.

57:05 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. And obviously, that's, that's super valuable, right, to the, to your company, right, to yourself, that you can earn yourself that type of freedom. Whereas if you are completely out of control and chaotic, you're never going to get into that type of position where you can take sort of an extended trip away, that type of thing.

57:23 Jono Clegg: Yeah, I think everything that I try and do, you can see that it's extra work for yourself. But I think any work you do for yourself is going to help yourself in the long run, whether that's like updating things or if managers ask for a forecast, well, they're asking it for a reason, I guess. They need it to be able to do what they need to do. And if you figure out that reason, then that's going to help you in the long run. For us, it's a lot around kit. So we have to forecast 18 months in advance of, for kit to be able to be made. And that's hard to do. But when you think about it, if within an 18-month time, we haven't got the kit, Then we didn't do ads properly when we were doing that.

57:59 Scott Ingram: Yeah, obviously. I mean, there's big lead times on manufacturing and everything else. I mean, you're selling a physical, highly technical product, so that makes a lot of sense. So I'll let you kind of tackle this however you want. I wonder if we want to go sort of super niche with it and think in terms of really for athletes, whether they're college athletes or any other type of athletes that are transitioning to sales, like what advice you would have have for somebody that's just starting out in their sales career today?

58:29 Jono Clegg: Yeah, I think, I think that's a really good one. I did write a blog on my transition on LinkedIn, and it got quite good sort of feedback from, from people because a lot of the times around negativity of sort of mental health of athletes leaving sport or things like that and switching. And I think for me, it was all about finding that new goal and whether that be in sales I can 100% recommend sales for sports people directly. Relative goals, you can see the leaderboard all the time. You get rewarded for good, good results. So I'd say for anyone making that transition, definitely look at sales. And if it's something you're not interested in, then you can change afterwards. But I'm 90% sure that any sports person would actually really thrive in a sales environment. And, and the counter to that is any business would actually really benefit from having those salespeople with those natural internal drivers in their organization and actually that energy that they can bring.

59:27 Scott Ingram: Yeah, I was just going to mention that if you didn't. I think the benefit to… I mean, just the statistics around it, right? The number of top performers that have some type of athletic background is really, really consistent. And I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of it's mostly because of just that internal drive. It's not like you have to push them to want to achieve and want to do things. That comes… that's just part of the DNA, right?

59:52 Jono Clegg: Yeah, definitely. That's a massive thing. If you look at at how many, like, obviously everyone who started in sports started out probably as a little kid playing it on Little League in the US or just on minis rugby in the UK. And what they're doing is they're just doing it for the fun of it. And then they start doing it for the winning and then they start doing it for a little bit more. And then ultimately, if they're really successful, they'll start doing it and they'll get paid a lot of money for it. But it all started from that internal drive that was there. So yeah, I really believe that.

1:00:23 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Now, I don't know that you're in the greatest position to do this, but I'm going to ask the question anyway, because you've only been selling for a few years. But I typically ask, you know, what advice you would have to somebody that's further into their career, and they're doing okay, but they haven't gotten to the next level, or they really have a desire to get to that next level. What would you advise them?

1:00:41 Jono Clegg: Yeah, so I think firstly, I think they're doing number one thing of listening to this podcast or try to get out there and they've got a desire to change. If they're doing well and they want to be better, then realizing that is, is the number one thing that you've got, and you're 90% of the way already. I'd then say look, look back over your own career and what has worked, what hasn't, and, and then try to see what the top performers in your company are doing. Spend some time with them, but then also spend time with the people that aren't performing as well, and then you'll be able to identify what the differences are yourself, and you'll be able to see whether you've been doing the wrong things or you've been doing the right things. And then that'll give you confidence to be able to go into the next quarter with a little bit of a playbook and then maybe take 3 of those top things and look to implement those over the course of the next 6 weeks and really have like sort of execute on those and see if they work and then feedback. And if they do work, work, that's great. If they don't, take them out. And I think, like we said, do everything that's complementary to your personality. But that sort of one recognition thing of realizing you want to improve is the key there, I think.

1:01:52 Scott Ingram: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So you want the podcast to be longer. What's the question that I can ask? Like, what's the thing that you'd like to know that I don't typically get to in these interviews already?

1:02:06 Jono Clegg: So I think what I'd like to know about other top sellers is what are they doing within their industry to find the right balance between account management and new business development? So for me, it's, it took, took me a while to find that balance because we're so heavily involved in technical support and the role that we have to provide with that. But if there are people out there as well who in that, in those heavily involved industries, How are they spending their time on new business? How are they using their time to do that? And what are they… what strategies have they put in place for that?

1:02:42 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's a great, great point, especially for folks that do have kind of hybrid territories. A lot of times I am seeing people in more and more specialized roles where it's only new accounts or it's only existing accounts. But even in the existing accounts, there's always… well, not always, but typically there's an upsell number with that. So there is a new business development piece of that that you want to be mindful of. So I, I, I like that, and I will certainly continue to, to be aware of that and, and start to ask that question where it's appropriate. And I, I know you love the final question. Actually, before we go there, was there anything else that you were hoping to touch on or, or share over the course of our conversation today that's… that somehow we didn't quite get to yet.

1:03:25 Jono Clegg: No, I think that's all been great. I just, I really value the podcast and the sharing of all the stories and everything like that. I think it's a great resource for us in sales, and especially in some industries where we're right, we're not in an office with our counterparts all the day. And so it's, it's been able to share all those stories and learn something every day rather than just when we meet every quarter. So it's been really useful for me.

1:03:50 Scott Ingram: So thanks Thanks. Awesome. Well, I, I love that you love it, and, and I love it too, because otherwise I, I wouldn't get up at 4:30 in the morning on a Sunday to do an interview.

1:03:58 Jono Clegg: I know. Yeah, it's been an early start for you. So, uh, no, thanks very much.

1:04:04 Scott Ingram: All good. It just made my week a little bit longer, but like I said, I, I, I love doing it, so it's a pleasure to do it, and I enjoy it a lot. So that brings us to the, the last question, which we always try and make as, as actionable as possible. So what would you challenge the person listening to this to do over the course of the next 1 to 2 weeks to improve themselves and their results?

1:04:24 Jono Clegg: Yeah, I can't remember whether you've had this challenge before or not, but I think it's something that's really worked for me starting out in 2019 off the back of a, like, sort of a bumper year last year. And actually, I read another book, actually, uh, Legacy on the New Zealand All Blacks, and if you're not changing, you're standing still. And so for me, it was trying to figure out my So I challenge anyone to look back over the last sort of 12 months and figure out what that cadence that made them successful was and what they, or what the cadence is that they need to be successful, like, and put that down and then hold yourself to account on it. So what your weekly meetings, pipeline generation, or product support in medical devices, how much you need, and then what is that cadence looking like? And then hold yourself to account for the next 6, 10 weeks and see the results of that.

1:05:17 Scott Ingram: Fantastic. And I know the conversation you're referring to was the one that I had with Jack Wilson and the cadence that he's put in place for, for his team, which, which prompted a… we're gonna have lots of links on your episode here. I recorded, so for folks who aren't yet aware of, I, I, I have to hope that you are and you're already listening to the new Daily Sales Tips podcast. That prompted me to share a tip about what I think of as minimum viable habits. So if you, if you think about Jono's challenge around your cadence, I think you can also sort of think about that in a range, right? What are the minimum number of activities that I need to do that I know are going to ensure my level of success? And then using that to inform what you're doing. I think it's much more valuable to have an easier target that you know you can hit and maintain sort of the positive psychology around regularly winning and feeling successful versus having a big stretch goal that you miss frequently. I think that, and again, going back to that conversation with Jack Wilson, there's, there's just, there's something powerful about that and some, some great stuff there. So, Jono, great challenge. Really, really have enjoyed this conversation. Thank you for taking the time to share your story with us.

1:06:38 Jono Clegg: Thanks very much, Scott. It's been a pleasure. So looking forward to hearing loads more stories.

1:06:44 Scott Ingram: Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast. To be sure you never miss an episode and for an invitation to our Sales Success Community powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter at top1.fm.