53: Sales Hacker's #1 and Only - Scott Barker

0:08 Scott Ingram: You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve. To learn more, visit us at top1.fm. Here's your host, Scott Ingram.

0:24 Scott Ingram: Today on the Sales Success Stories podcast, my guest is Scott Barker. Scott's story is definitely an interesting one and probably one that you've experienced parts of as he ran partnerships for Sales Hacker, which was recently acquired by Outreach.io. Welcome to the show, Scott.

0:41 Scott Barker: Thank you so much. Your parents had excellent choices in names, Scott.

0:44 Scott Ingram: Absolutely. Like, like many parents of our generation, I suppose. So Scott, before we start digging into your context and my updates on the 2019 Sales Success Summit and the Sales Success Stories book, which is just about to release on October 16th, let's front with the value like we always do and talk about the top 3 things that you primarily attribute your success to.

1:11 Scott Barker: Yeah, absolutely. I love we're getting, getting right to it. So I'll break it down. Let's, let's start with number 1. And this is something that's helped me throughout my, my whole career. And it's just, you know, giving as much value from your interaction with the prospect as they would actually get from the product or service that they're looking at. And what I mean by that is you need to become an expert in your given field. For example, I was selling into marketers and selling essentially, you know, demand gen services at our events and other digital initiatives. So in order for me to be successful and add value other than just, you know, the service we provided, I had to know as much about marketing as the people I was talking to. So when they were talking to me, you know, I could give them interesting ideas, tactics that went beyond just what I was selling. So essentially for me, my formula was, hey, here's an idea for an interesting marketing campaign. Let's talk through it. I will empower you with all the information that you need to make it successful. But hey, if they wanna 10x the result or save themselves a ton of time, you know, that's when you can buy our product or service. So you can take this approach in a lot of different ways. You can also scale this on social media. You know, people are often scared to give away all their knowledge or their, their value, but don't be, you know, tell people everything that they need to know and provide that value. And people will eventually come back around to learn more, clarify, or, uh, you know, show interest in your product or service.

2:45 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Well, that's my goal today is to get you to tell us everything, but Scott, I mean, I'm an open book. Yeah, for sure. And as somebody who also sales, sales to market, What is what was your approach? How were you developing sort of that knowledge so that you could add value in those ways beyond kind of the the offerings that you guys had?

3:05 Scott Barker: Absolutely. And so this one, so I've in a previous position too from Sales Hacker, I also sold into marketing. So I've had the the luxury of having a similar persona now for a while. So I would often you know two years ago I went to the Content Marketing Institute, their CM World, so their conference, and I sat there and I listened through. You know, a bunch of these marketers talk about, you know, what keeps them up at night, what pains, what challenges do they have. And, you know, following blogs and thought leaders that are not necessarily of your industry, but actually of the persona, uh, can help you hone those, those skills that you need to really put yourself in their shoes.

3:45 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's a great one. And I think, you know, so often we go to these conferences and we get stuck in booth duty, but you know, the opportunity is go get in the sessions, right? If those sessions were built for your target market, right, to be in them and hearing what they're hearing and understand what they're challenged with. Great way to add value. Alright, so that was number one, and we've got a lot more to go. So talk about what's, what's the second one after giving as much value as your product offering?

4:12 Scott Barker: Yeah, for sure. So be the expert. And then number 2 is, you know, build a repeatable, scalable process, and then continue to iterate. And your job is not done once something is working. So Now, what I mean by that is, you know, you probably work for an organization, maybe you're an entrepreneur, but you probably work for an organization that has some sort of sales process, but you have to find out what works for you specifically. And I'm not saying throw out the playbook at your organization. You don't wanna do that. But if they're telling you, you know, make 100+ calls a day, but you know that your strong suit is better suited for, you know, crafting well-thought-out emails or amplifying your message on social, don't be afraid to experiment, you know, and, and document everything that you're doing. Every role that I've ever had, I've created my own sales playbook. So separate to the organization sales playbook of what specifically works for me and what isn't working this way, you're not just going on gut and being like, oh, I think, I think this is gonna be good, or that might work. It's all documented. And it's mostly for, you know, it's always been for kind of my own sanity. And for those days that are stressful or you feel a little bit lost or things aren't going your way, uh, you can pull it up, you know, this playbook and remember, okay, these things have worked. Let's go back to these. Let's go back to the basics. And, you know, things you can include in this, you know, industries that you've had success with, opening lines that you've had success with, uh, how many calls it takes to take, you know, to get an opportunity. How many emails, good social posts, you name it. So you can always take yourself back to those things that you've had success with.

5:54 Scott Ingram: Well, we're definitely going to come back to this and talk about the sales process and how you're iterating and how you're building that playbook. But rather than spending 10 minutes on that now, let's, let's go on to your third of the top 3.

6:09 Scott Barker: Absolutely. And it's, it's kind of a natural progression and it ties Very similarly to point one, and that's just you know when I look time and time again what has made me successful. It is it's having empathy and really getting in your prospect's head and and the world that they live in. I think it's really funny that empathy is you know king in sales now. Could you imagine you know telling the the boiler room sales guys in the eighties that empathy would would rule the day? They'd probably. Wouldn't believe you, but I truly think that's, that's where we're at now. And if your prospect doesn't feel like you understand them, then you won't get past the first call, you know, the first email. So I mentioned a few ways earlier on a great way to do this, but find conferences that are geared to the personas you go after and not just so you can try and sell them, as you mentioned. And if for whatever reason your organization doesn't believe in this strategy or you don't have the money to fly over to a conference, you know, follow industry blogs, news sites, thought leaders in that world. You know, it's just going to make you a way, way better seller. You can pick up on the industry jargon, the pain points, and not just make assumptions. Cause I feel like a lot of times as sellers and as organizations, we, we make too many assumptions and this is a way to strip that away.

7:29 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Super solid stuff. So now let's, let's get to the context. So talk about Sales Hacker for those who might not be familiar, that hopefully not too many in this audience and specifically about your role in, and contribution to the growth you guys have had here recently?

7:45 Scott Barker: Yeah, absolutely. So Sales Hacker, for those of you who don't know, we're the number one B2B sales community on the planet, or that's what we're building out. So we're a very large sales community, and we create content for B2B sales professionals. We pump out 3 blogs a week. We've got a podcast now as well, which we do once a week. We do 2 webinars a week. And we partner with truly some of the coolest tech companies on planet Earth to kind of match them with people in our community. And as you mentioned, we recently got acquired by Outreach.io, which we were all very, very excited about. But backtracking a little bit. So my role is Head of Partnerships, or you could also look at that as Head of Sales, because I was the sole revenue driver for Sales Hacker over the last It's just, it's been about a year now, and it was my job to be, you know, judge, jury, executioner, if that's a bad way to put it. But, you know, I was doing business development, I was creating all my own opportunities, I was seeing them to close, and then there was actually a large portion of, you know, project management or customer success in there as well, because we would sell them on a marketing or a demand gen campaign within our community. Whether it was a bunch of webinars, jumping on our podcast, or coming to some of our events. And we'd have to, of course, see that through to the end. So it was, you know, managing those relationships with companies like Outreach, companies like LinkedIn, companies like HubSpot, you know, Adobe was a big one. So these big enterprise organizations, we would act as a marketing channel for them. And it was my job to build those relationships.

9:33 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. And part of the reason I reached out and we connected, you, you posted something on LinkedIn that I thought was fantastic about, you know, you're not only are you a full-cycle sales rep or revenue generator, you're managing every part of the process. But you were also going above and beyond in a lot of ways. Can you talk about some of what that was, why you did it, when you did it, those kinds of things?

9:57 Scott Barker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So for me, I think I learned pretty early on that in order for me to be successful, and I brought this up kind of in the beginning as well, but I'll get into kind of the nitty-gritty of it was it wasn't good enough to go out there and be like, hey, I want to, I want to do this package. I want to do this marketing campaign with you guys, but it would be fully like breaking it down. Like I would spend hours sitting down and be like, okay, if I'm working with Outreach, who's Outreach's personas? Who is their ICP? Who are they trying to target? What are they doing now? And I would actually build out an entire marketing campaign from like start to finish, you know, the webinar title, what we're going to cover, the speakers we're going to bring in. So I was wearing a marketing hat a lot of the time, and then I would be able to go approach them with a fully built-out plan. And that was when, you know, success just started kind of snowballing from there. And I realized, okay, I'm onto something here. If I can position myself as the undisputed expert of, you know, events and digital demand gen webinars, well, people are going to listen to me. And I was able to get a lot of attention that way. And then further to that, I also saw this, this big opportunity on LinkedIn where I could leverage the Sales Hacker brand to get in front of, you know, just a ton of sales folks that actually fit our ICP. So I put a lot of work into kind of call it personal branding or social selling or whatever you want to call it. Uh, and I would create, you know, a video a week, put it on, on social media, do a couple of posts a week as well. So those were 2 of the things that I kind of doubled down on and ended up having, having a lot of success.

11:46 Scott Ingram: Well, and when you think about LinkedIn and social selling, again, whatever you want to call it, well, let's, let's think about it in terms of social selling. So how would you define that? And how did you kind of measure and quantify the results that you got from those efforts?

12:01 Scott Barker: Mm-hmm. So for me, how I quantified social selling. Well, first off, I wanna say, I think social selling has the wrong name. I don't think it should be social selling. Uh, and I think a lot of BDRs, AEs, individual contributors think that LinkedIn is a channel where you go and you connect with someone and you say, hey, I want to get 15 minutes. That's not what it's about. You know, social is about, for me, I looked at it as a way to open doors that previously may not have been open to me, meaning I could get in front of more influential people if they saw I was visible in the same realm that they're in. But if I, so I guess the answer to that is I tried, I tried not to quantify it too much because I think the real value is staying top of mind with your prospects and getting able to talk to people that you wouldn't normally talk to. But that being said, I did look at the amount of opportunities that were, you know, touched in some way from social, whether someone liked my, my video or they commented on something, or we had had an interaction via LinkedIn messages and the amount of opportunities, it was like 60% or plus in my pipe that had been somehow influenced by social.

13:20 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. I mean, I think part of what you were doing and maybe, you know, maybe personal branding is a better term for this. I think in a lot of ways they're a little bit, interchangeable, especially in the way that you're doing it. But I feel like what you did well is you just sort of humanized yourself, right? It wasn't about, here's the Sales Hacker thing and here's why Sales Hacker is so awesome. It was, hey, I'm just like you guys. Here's the thing I'm struggling with, or here's what's working for me and putting that kind of thing out there. And that resonated, right? People want to connect with, with that.

13:50 Scott Barker: Totally. Yeah. I think you're, you're 100% right. And, and Yeah, thanks for stating that. That was really just, just the goal. It wasn't to establish that Sales Hacker was the best and we were the number one, you know, marketing channel that they needed to work with. If you look at a lot of, you know, my videos or anything I put out there, it doesn't mention Sales Hacker too much. It's more about, hey, I've been a sales rep myself in one form or capacity since I was about 18 as well. So I know the struggles. The trials and tribulations you guys are going through. Uh, by the way, here's something that worked for me. I hope it works for you. And that was kind of the goal.

14:28 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Awesome. Well, let's go back to that time when you were about 18. How did this whole sales journey start for you?

14:33 Scott Barker: Yeah. So this is a, this is a funny one. So I actually got my start. Uh, I was straight out of high school, so I was 18, 18, maybe 19 years old. And I got a summer gig. And the best way to describe this would be, it's kind of like Groupon, like a precursor to Groupon, but not on the internet. So we would work with, you know, golf courses, spas, restaurants, and put together this, you know, really nice package for them and basically worked as like an outsourced sales team. But what that meant in actuality was, you know, myself, it was door-to-door sales, right? Selling essentially a coupon book really. And I found a lot of success actually sneaking into large office buildings and going office to office selling, you know, golf or spa packages to people there. And funnily enough, that summer I was able to become the number 1 rep in Canada and actually get flown down to Australia to help this company open up an office down there and help train the new hires that they were going to have. So that was a dream, obviously, as a 19-year-old to get to go down to Australia and live there. But it was a hard job, probably the hardest job I've ever had in my life. And it really showed me the meaning of, of grit. And, you know, the input matches the output. So if you put in the hours and take more rejection than anyone else, you're, you're going to succeed.

16:07 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's, that's awesome. And I know we'll come back and kind of connect the dots in between that first opportunity and Sales Hacker. But knowing what you know now, and, you know, knowing what you've learned and experienced across these different roles, if you were starting over today, is there anything that you would do differently?

16:26 Scott Barker: Yeah, so I thought about this, this one. So I, I would say, just looking at the landscape now that we live in and the importance and the role of technology, I think I would tell my 18-year-old self and my 19 and my 21-year-old self and all these different sales gigs I have is start learning about technology, now, you know, sooner rather than later. Because before I actually got into the tech side of things, like tech sales, I didn't know that there were all these tools that could help me do my job literally like 10 times easier. So I would say start learning about tech at an earlier age. Don't be scared by it. Get your hands dirty. And, you know, see what, see what you can do. Because I think there's an argument for yes, go and work as hard as humanly possible. What if you could work as hard as humanly possible and work as smart as humanly possible, uh, and leverage technology, then, you know, you're just going to be that much more effective.

17:23 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Great, great stuff. And we'll definitely come back to some of those tools and the technologies that you're using to be more efficient. So that's a little bit in the future. Next, we'll talk about kind of your results there at Sales Hacker. But before I go there, I wanted to talk for just a couple of minutes about the summit and the book. And if you are listening to this, And you're my favorite kind of listener to the podcast. You're listening either the day we release the episode or in the, in the couple of days immediately afterwards. And if that's the case, then there's still time to take advantage of the best price on the 2019 Sales Success Summit. We'll be hosting that here in Austin on October 14th and 15th, 2019. So it's literally just over a year out and you can visit top1summit.com to get all of the details. Of course, a lot of those details are pending as we're still months out from building the agenda and such, but great things come to those who commit early. And until October 14th, 2018, you can take advantage of the best price we will ever offer. And there's even an option to pay just $75 a month. That all goes away on the 15th. And I've also taken all the risk out of that offer for you. So you have until September 30th, 2019. So you have 11 months or something to request a full refund or transfer your ticket to someone else. And there's only 200 seats available. Not only that, there's a pretty good chance 40 to 50 of those seats will be taken up by the top 1% sales professionals like Scott here who've been on the podcast. So the inventory is pretty tight and I expect that we'll sell out well in advance of the event. So you may as well get in now. So again, you'll, you'll find all those details at top1summit.com. And then on the book front, we are almost there. Everything is ready to go for the official release on October 16th. So you can take your marks and get ready for the race to start on that one. Best thing you can do is join the mailing list at top1.fm where I'll have a couple of bonuses for those who buy the book in the first week. So top1.fm is the best place to start for lots of stuff, including the detailed show notes and the rest of my conversation here with Scott, in which we'll have so far, uh, certainly a link to the Sales Hacker Podcast. And again, we'll be talking about tools and Scott's playbook and a whole lot of other stuff. So Scott, talk about your results and what you've been able to do with Sales Hacker in the last year there.

19:54 Scott Barker: Yeah, so to quantify it, so I just want to kind of set the stage a little bit with when I came into the role roughly a year ago, there was really no roadmap for, for what I was doing. So the previous year, they had a guy managing sales, and our CEO Max was managing sales, but it was very much kind of off the cuff, you know, as a lot of CEO-run organizations are, uh, that don't have a formalized process. And they were about 90% of their revenue just came from, uh, events. So they, they throw these big conferences. And what I was really brought on to do was transition that from an events business to a digital-first business. So when we talked together and we were like looking at, okay, what was my, my plan and my quota? We essentially kind of threw a dart at the wall really. And it was, so my quota, it was $110K per month. So pretty, pretty steep coming off, you know, the, from, from business development inception of opportunities to closing. And I started, I believe I started in October and there was 2 months that I misplanned as I was ramping October, November. Struggled through, spent a lot of time building the processes and the foundation. And then things started taking off in December. So crushed it in December. And every month after that, actually, until we were acquired in August by one of our partners that I was actually able to bring on board in January, which is pretty cool, Outreach. So over that period of time, so I was able to bring $1 million in 9 months. And that's on pipeline. That is, that is closed revenue. So over plan, even after making up for those first 2 months that I missed. So I was actually able to make up for those first 2 months that I missed my quota and ended up, you know, exceeding that. So yeah, the results were exciting. Of course, money comes with results like that as well. I was able to clear about $75K in commission alone, not including, you know, quarterly bonuses and such. So it was a good ride. And still is.

22:09 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Well, and this part's always an interesting qualifier for me is, you know, I only interview either number 1 or top 1% individual contributors. Well, when, when you're a team of 1, you're the best, but you're also the worst, right? But I think what's interesting for you is this isn't the first time you've, you've been number 1. You want to talk about it? And I threatened that we would kind of fill in the dots in between that, that first role and now. So maybe talk about some of those other roles and some of the other results that you've been able to put up.

22:37 Scott Barker: Absolutely. Yeah. So we talked about my goofy golf package job that I got to fly down to Australia. So there was that one. The next one that I was actually number 1 was I was about 21 and I was working for a travel company called the Global Work and Travel Co. And in my first year, it was really my first time doing serious inside sales. I was the number 1 sales rep across North America. And I believe I still hold the record globally for the most sales in one day. And I actually, from there, went on to be a team lead, ended up managing the whole office of about 14 sales reps. I was far too young to be doing so, but I flew by the seat of my pants a little bit. And I think I learned that learning for me, why I think I was successful in that role is I learned the power of stories. And I used them, I think, a little more effectively than anyone else out there on the team. Where they were selling the features or the features of the package, I was able to craft these well-thought-out narratives of how it would actually make them feel down there, especially drawing on my experiences of actually going abroad. So that was, I think, the differentiator there was my storytelling ability. Third time that I was number 1 was at a fintech company in Vancouver where I'm from. Called Payfirma. And my first month on the job, so this was, I was actually a BDR at this organization. I had to take kind of a step back to get to where I wanted to go. And the first month on the job, I had the most opportunities created across the whole team there and ended up getting promoted into more of a partnerships development role directly under their VP of sales there. And, you know, that was from keeping my head up and spending extra hours learning from those around me. You know, which led me to get that VP of sales to take me under his wing, which was instrumental in my success. And then last but not least, MediaVale as well was where I went and built out the business development program and led that team from the front lines as a player coach, being number 1 for… I think I was there about 2 years. So yeah, I've been lucky enough to experience that a number of times throughout my career.

24:56 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's fantastic. And I'm most interested in that, that BDR role where you were number 1 in your first month. What was the secret to just such a fast start and quick results like that?

25:07 Scott Barker: Taking a step back and looking at it more strategically. So I was told when I get in there, I was supposed to, you know, make X amount of calls, send X amount of emails, send this template, and the process was very rigid. But because this wasn't my first go at sales, which in many, many times, you know, BDR, SDR is an entry-level role. And my peers were just like, okay, I'm, I'm just gonna do what my boss tells me. I looked at it a little more strategically and I was like, okay, how can we identify those people that are most likely to need our services? Like who is our ideal customer profile? Break it down super granular. And we sold financial tech services. So essentially payment processing. So I was like, okay, there's gotta be a list out there of new companies. So what I did was I went on the internet, there's a lot of public information out there and went city by city and there's a new business registry on there. So I actually just pulled those all up and instead of making 100 calls into random companies in my CRM, I made 100 very strategic calls to Uh, people that I knew were more likely to need our service. So my time was just better spent than, than everyone else's, I think.

26:26 Scott Ingram: That's, that's such great stuff. Well, and even at Sales Hacker, I mean, I think ramping always takes some time and the fact that, you know, by month 3 you were really blowing your numbers out. Anything different about that approach and that process? Because you obviously built a really strong foundation that continued to sustain you through the rest of the year?

26:46 Scott Barker: Yeah, I would say so. A 3-month ramp time is pretty quick. And that was just really because I didn't have the luxury of having a ramp time. You know, we had it, we're a pretty small organization. We're a startup, we're bootstrapped. So I was the sole guy bringing in money. If money doesn't come in, the lights go off. So there was a bit of added pressure there. But I would say to anyone who is maybe in a position where they're ramping out or they've got a new gig, take the time upfront. Don't just throw yourself in the role and think that, you know, if you're working the hardest that you're gonna see a result. I think that's often the wrong approach. You need to take time to look at where you're at as an organization. Are the processes correct? And for me, like I spent a lot of those 2 months creating sales enablement material that I would use like far down the road. I knew we had different conferences coming up. We didn't have any spec sheets or like case studies and stuff. And our marketing team was busy doing other things. So I actually spent a lot of time just like being like, okay, what am I going to need in order to succeed? And let's go out and create it.

27:54 Scott Ingram: And when you say let's go out and create it, to be clear, you just made it yourself.

27:58 Scott Barker: I made it myself. Yeah. Well, there was a few different things. So if I couldn't do it, and I'm not a technical guy, I'd say I'm creative, but like don't really know how to work Adobe Photoshop or anything. I went on places like Canva, are easy to create documents and case studies and one-pagers. If Canva didn't work, I would go on like something like Fiverr marketplace where you can get people to work for cheap, you know, be like, here's $15, please create this document or this spec sheet. And then if that didn't work, even worked with a local agency in Vancouver to help me out. So yeah, I just got it done.

28:38 Scott Ingram: That's fantastic. So you also mentioned being an effective story seller. Talk about that, or maybe you want to share one of your favorite sales stories from, well, whether it's Sales Hacker or something previous.

28:53 Scott Barker: So favorite, so I think there's 2 kind of different ways there. So my, my point about being a good storyteller is I think anytime you're talking to a prospect or you're trying to get a point across, I think it's so much easier to talk through, through stories, right? Like, have you done this before? Have you helped someone? Sometimes they can even be abstract, but I find a lot of times when you're trying to get a point across, look for different stories. So anytime that I was selling, for each different like use case we would have, I would have a well-thought-out story in my back pocket that if it was appropriate, I would whip it out. So that was one, that was kind of the one angle. And then the other one from what's my favorite sales story of like me personally, I think when I look at it now, I think it always changes, but it has to be securing, you know, the partnership that inevitably led to Sales Hacker eventually becoming acquired. There was a lot of work that went into securing that, just that initial partnership, just this small, you know, demand gen campaign we were going to do. I met their team at Dreamforce, actually at a conference. I had stalked them for about a month and a half beforehand. I was able to actually utilize my network and get an intro to them. So they didn't think I was a total stranger. And then after Dreamforce, took us about 4 or 5 meetings, you know, but ultimately all that time, it was worth truly every second. And so learnings from that story would be, you know, treat every deal like you'll work for that organization one day because you just might, right? So that might be, you know, an anomaly, you know, every deal that you, that you go on to close or that you deal with, they might be able to intro you to some massive account of yours, or one could help you land your next dream job. So who knows? So always play it, play at your top level.

30:58 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's fantastic. And maybe this is the same question, or maybe you have something else. But I'm curious from an accomplishment perspective, what you're most proud of through your career.

31:08 Scott Barker: Yeah, so I think I'm going to have a bit of a different different take on this question a little bit. You know, I think as salespeople, we get so wrapped up in just like results and the money we make and the quotas we crush, which is all great. And I love doing that. And it always makes you feel amazing when you can, you know, see yourself on the, you know, number one leaderboard. But for me, I think what I'm most proud of when I look back at my career, it has been my ability to attract some really, really amazing mentors in my life. And why I'm proud of that is I, I think that's a testament to, you know, my real desire to keep learning. And I think a lot of people, you know, if, if you're just getting started and people see that desire for you that you want to learn, they want to help you. And that's how you get, you know, to learn things that are going to help you be number one. I've had a million people help me throughout my career. And I'd say that is what I'm most proud of is, is keeping those relationships intact and being able to learn from them.

32:17 Scott Ingram: So we definitely have to talk about that some more, particularly like the attraction part. So what, what does that mean? Is it something that you're doing intentionally? Did it, did it start accidentally? Like what, what does that mean exactly? And how do you make it happen? Yeah.

32:32 Scott Barker: So initially it was definitely just, I think, something I was doing. So I would always just have at the beginning of my career, just internal mentors, just by, you know, always being curious. So one of my tips and advice for anyone new to sales is always, you know, lead with curiosity. It's going to take you so unbelievably far. If you've got, you know, a VP of sales or sales director that's telling you to do something or has made a decision to go elsewhere, Ask why. Like, what was the thinking behind that? Not in like a, hey, I don't think that's the right way to do it, but in like, I genuinely want to be you someday. So I would love to know your, your thought process behind making that decision. And then slowly over time, you can kind of pepper in your, your own ideas on that when they come back and like, oh, it's because XYZ. You're like, oh, that makes total sense. Thanks for breaking that down. Also, did you think of this? And then over time, they kind of, they look at you as someone who's more than just a rep on their team or more than just someone who's creating opportunities or more than just someone who's closing business, but you're kind of this trusted business advisor a little bit. And then they're much more open to coming to you, sharing all their knowledge because they think that, you know, they might get something back from it, whether it's a good tidbit or you questioning them so they can think out their idea better or perhaps they're creating a future leader for their organization.

34:05 Scott Ingram: So, Scott, is there like a particular way that… I mean, that's pretty ad hoc. I mean, have you tried to formalize those mentoring relationships at all? Like, what has that looked like over time?

34:17 Scott Barker: Yeah, many times I've formalized it. So, that's what it was initially in my career with internal mentors and then people that I've met with. That I just think are extremely interesting people. You know, you can add them to a list basically. And yeah, I've had many formal mentor relationships and I would structure it if they were comfortable. I'd usually go, hey, can we meet once a week? And if they're not comfortable with that, then you do once a month. If not comfortable with that, once a quarter. And my advice there for, for attracting mentors and then also getting the most out of it for both of you is all of the work is done on your end. So this is something that they're doing out of the goodness of their heart, right? They have very, very demanding schedules. So I would always, as a precursor, about like 2 or 3 days out, I'd actually send out an agenda and be like, hey, this is what I'm hoping to cover. If you have time to think about it, awesome. And, you know, if there's anything you want to pick my brain about, send it over through so I can have some well thought-out ideas as well.

35:24 Scott Ingram: Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. Yeah. I mean, that, that's it, right? It's, it's just sort of taking control, being proactive. And I think what you find with those mentoring relationships over time, having, having been on both sides of them, is, you know, those that are helping themselves are the ones that you want to help the most, right? Because they'll actually take on the advice. And I've always found like reporting back is gold. Sharing like, hey, I listened to you here. I didn't do exactly what you said. I tried this. Here's what happened. Those kinds of things are what turn those mentoring relationships and make them evergreen, where you're meeting weekly and they're willing to continue that beyond the, I don't know, second week. Totally. Yeah.

36:04 Scott Barker: They want to see a result. They're putting energy and time into something, whether it's a human or a process or whatever. Everyone wants to see a result from that. If they're giving you information, they want to see you go and implement it and then come back and be like, man, Dave, I just crushed my quota. I just got a, you know, 150% or that subject line or whatever it was, you know, that rocked. And here's, here's the, you know, KPIs to prove it.

36:31 Scott Ingram: Beautiful. So what about the hard part? What do you find to be the biggest challenge or where do you struggle the most?

36:39 Scott Barker: So I used to really struggle with time management. Gotten better over, over the years by just being, you know, living and dying by my Google Calendar. But I think, you know, especially if you're going to be a full-cycle rep, I think you live and die by time management. So make sure every single activity that you do is time-blocked in your calendar. Like have a time for prospecting blocked in your calendar. And it is a sacred time that you do not miss. You know, have a time for a bit of social selling, getting on LinkedIn, make that a priority. Have a time that you usually, you know, set meetings from. Of course, sometimes you have to be willing to meet your prospect and people halfway, but set a time that's your typical meeting time and usually give that as the window. So time management is a big one for sure that was difficult for me. And then the other thing that I thought about about just now is kind of going back to one of the toughest times, I think, in my career was… so it was when I was at that travel organization I was telling you about, and I was managing this team, I think it was 14 sales reps at the biggest time. And I was, you know, happy with what I was doing, but I kind of hit the ceiling. Like, I was like, oh, like, where do I go from here? Like, whose, whose job do I want? And, and there wasn't that much room for, for me to get to this next level. And I saw that tech was, you know, blowing up, that people, these organizations were blowing up. And I knew that I wanted to get into tech. And so I started like putting my name out there for, for jobs, sales management positions. And I remember the first response I got back was just like, no way. Like, you don't have any, you don't have any experience in tech and you wanna come and manage a sales team. And I remember that just being a crushing, crushing, crushing blow. And then I saw that again and again as I continued to, to apply to organizations cuz they weren't really transferable skills, right? Like I knew how to manage a sales team, but I didn't know how to manage a, a sales technology team. And so one of the hardest decisions I ever made was to make one step back, maybe even 2 steps back to ultimately get, you know, 3, 4, 5 steps ahead. And I remember those few months being some of the hardest times that I can remember thinking, am I making the right decision? Because I went and I took an entry-level position at a tech company and big blow to the ego. But looking back, it was one of the best things I ever did. So to anyone listening to this and looking at their next career move, just know that there are different levels of playing field. You know, you might be a sales director at a startup and, or you might be in, you know, whatever industry, but know that there are different fields. And sometimes to get to the next field or get to, you know, the Super Bowl versus like college level, sometimes you'll have to take a step back in, in title or in pay. To jump to that next level, if that makes sense.

40:02 Scott Ingram: Yeah, totally. And I think that's super timely advice. I've had a few folks reach out to me here literally just in the last week with a variety of challenges. They all kind of smelled the same, right? Some of it was wrong industry, and I want to move into tech, or I want to move into something where there's, there's more upside potential, or they're, they're in a place where it's just a situation where they're never going to be able to do, uh, really well, right? The company's challenged or whatever the case may be. And I think this advice of you've got to take a really long-term look at this, right? Sales careers are not… this is not 3 years and the next 6 months is, is 20% of the rest of your life. That math was really wrong, but you get the idea. Yeah, I mean, the, the time span here, I mean, my gosh, if you're in your 20s You've got 30, 40 years ahead of you. And I think taking that longer-term perspective and, and just being mindful and, and not thinking about it as a step back, but thinking about it, thinking of it as really building a foundation is, is so much more powerful.

41:10 Scott Barker: Totally.

41:11 Scott Ingram: And everybody that I've talked to now, now granted, maybe my sample is wrong because I only talk to people that are at the top, but everybody that has made that move at some point in their career hasn't regretted it at all.

41:24 Scott Barker: Yeah, it was the inflection point. It was the pivotal, pivotal moment. When I look at in my career, it was the smartest thing that, that I ever did. So I urge anyone who's battling that, that feeling, and they don't want to give up their title or give up the money they're making right now, sometimes those strategic moves can, can pay off in a big way. And like you said, it's not like you have to pay your dues forever. You've got a baseline already. You're gonna be if not number one, you're going to be up there with the leaders for sure. And, you know, it's just, it can be an accelerator.

41:58 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. And to tie in a more recent podcast episode, I'm recording this, we're a couple episodes ahead. But, you know, just this idea of also being really, really mindful of not just the company that you're going to work for, but the individual who's the leader. Are they somebody who can make you better and help you grow and help you get to that next level? That is, again, looking back over, over 50 of these interviews, I don't think that I have a single example of somebody who is successful despite their manager and has had to overcome a bad manager. They always have somebody great behind them or in front of them or above them that's pushing and pulling and helping them achieve really great things.

42:45 Scott Barker: Totally. 100%. Like, that's, you know, that's what I said. That's my favorite accomplishment is is having those people's amazing mentors and managers that I've, you know, been strategic about finding. And as sales professionals, career planning is, I think it would, I don't see any other profession where it's more important than sales because your manager and the organization and the product or the service you sell is tied directly with how successful you can possibly be. Right? Like if you have a terrible product or service, you could be the greatest salesperson in the world and you're not gonna do as well. You could have, you know, you could be the best salesperson in the world, but if your manager's filling your head with terrible advice day in and day out, well, you're not gonna be the best version of yourself either. So being strategic in your career planning, cuz you know, people that are the, the top 1 percenters, you, you typically don't see too many blips in their career. You know, maybe they've had a blip or two, but past that, there's not too many. And that comes from… that's not by accident. You know, they're, they're joining the right organizations. They are constantly learning, and they are making sure that their manager, their VP, has their back through thick and thin.

44:09 Scott Ingram: Yeah, well, that, that is probably the section of the book that I am most excited about. You know, we organize these 60 stories into 4 sections. So, it goes into mindset, it goes into relationships. The biggest section is on sales process, but there's over a dozen stories on sales careers and how the best of the best have managed this because I feel like that content is really missing, especially from people that are in it and doing it and who have found success and found a way through. This isn't a book about resumes. This is like real ground truth. Successes, failures, everything in between, and, and how you need to kind of think about that career. So I'm super pumped about that piece. So Scott, let's… you talked first from a challenges perspective about time management and the way that you're getting through that, and I love to dig into that area. Why don't we start with… you kind of talked about the time blocking that you're doing. When and how do you do that? Is, is that a weekly process? How much time are you setting aside daily or weekly to do the prospecting and some of those core activities. Give us some, some juicy detail on that.

45:18 Scott Barker: All right, let's do it. I'm actually gonna… bear with me 2 seconds. I'm gonna pull up my calendar and break it down for you. So I have my time block right here. So from 7:30 to 8:30 every single morning, through, through thick or thin, I'm prospecting. Okay, that's, that's blocked off. I have 9:30 to 10 o'clock Blocked off for… I've got it down as social selling, but just liking, commenting, getting involved, getting in the mix, maybe creating a video every single day as well. And then the other part I usually block off from 12 to about 3:30 is when I like to do my meetings. You know, I think we all have what I would call hot and cold zones, so to speak, times when we work better, we're more articulate, we're in the zone, and that's when I feel like I am. So I have that blocked off for my meetings. And then again, from 4:30 to 5:30, I'm doing some, some prospecting again. But that 4:30 to 5:30 session, I give myself a little more leeway. It's not so much emails, cold calls. I'll be more strategic about it, maybe reach out via LinkedIn, or maybe I'm doing some, some research for my prospecting the next morning and that sort of thing. So that's straight from my calendar.

46:35 Scott Ingram: Love it. Love it. Now, you said that meeting block. Do you find that you personally run cold in those periods? And that's why you put your meetings there? Or you're on fire in those periods? And you want to be talking to people then?

46:46 Scott Barker: I'm on fire in those periods. So I block it off. And then as meetings, like kind of filter in, I'll… it's just blocked off, like for my personal thing, people can still book time if they, if they want to. So yeah, that's when I try and conduct my meetings. Meetings.

47:02 Scott Ingram: Okay.

47:02 Scott Barker: That's interesting.

47:04 Scott Ingram: I actually take, I take the opposite approach. I find that I'm on fire in the morning and that's the time to do the hard stuff. Right. And to me, talking with people and having sales conversations, that's not hard like that. That gets me excited anyway. So I actually put those in my own kind of cold time, which is kind of that early afternoon after lunch sort of time where I'm going to experience a natural lull unless I'm having conversations. And so that allows me to sort of even it all out. So it's interesting that you take sort of the opposite approach there.

47:38 Scott Barker: Well, maybe it's not. So I find I have great conversations in that time period. So that's why I put them there. But I agree. When I'm doing any deep work or need to be hyperfocused, I get that done in the morning as well. So I think we're a little bit on the same page. Daniel Pink actually has a great book about this. Have you read… When: The Science of Perfect Timing?

48:01 Scott Ingram: I haven't read it yet, although I think it was actually your podcast that he was on. So I've listened to him talk about it, but I haven't read the book yet.

48:08 Scott Barker: Yeah, it's a really good book. I would highly, highly recommend it. And it talks about these kind of hot and cold zones and how we naturally have them and, and how to utilize your time better. And it's a great book. I would try and check it out.

48:21 Scott Ingram: Beautiful. In the show notes, people, top1.fm/52 will have a link to Dan Pink's books. And his stuff is… his writing is just awesome. I always enjoy reading and listening to his his, to his stuff. So let's talk a little bit more about routines and schedule and all of this. Talk me through kind of your morning routine. What is, what is that process? When does it start?

48:42 Scott Barker: Yeah. So typically, and again, I'm human, so it's not perfect, but I do try and subscribe to keeping it routine. I'm typically up at about like 6:30 or so. And I do have a morning routine and this is actually stolen from a man I heard talk about 2 years ago, and his name is Hal Elrod. His book is actually called The Miracle Morning, so shout out another book there. I'm an avid reader, so I've been practicing this about 2 years now, and I heard him speak, and he talks about how this one morning routine kind of turned his whole life around, and I'll break it down for what it is, and you can follow a very easy acronym And it is SAVERS. So it's basically, I'll get up before I have coffee or anything. I'll walk downstairs, usually in front of my fireplace. If it's summertime, not so much. And I'll sit there and I'll be cross-legged. And the first little bit, about a minute or 2, just complete silence. Try not to think about anything, just, you know, getting as close to a meditative state state as you can. Thoughts come in, gently push them aside. Then the next after that, I'll do light affirmations. And it might sound a little woo-woo to some people, but just basically whatever I'm feeling I need to be that day, I'll just reaffirm that I am that way. You know, if I have a bunch of meetings set, be like, you know, you're a charismatic guy who's going to rock these meetings. And you just kind of say that over and over again for a little while. And then third, which is actually my favorite one, is I quickly visualize my whole day. So I'll walk through, like, literally I'll like picture in my head me getting up off the floor, going, having a shower, quickly getting dressed, you know, walking to my coworking space or whatever. Am I going to grab a coffee? Am I not? What's going to happen then? Okay, I got these meetings. Oh shit, I didn't prepare for those meetings. Noted. I gotta do that at some point. And you kind of walk through your entire day. I don't think you can do it quite quickly. You know, it's obviously on fast-forward mode and it allows you to pick up things that may have been hiccups in your day before they actually happen. So that's visualize, that's the V. And then the E is exercise. So I just bang out like 20 pushups or anything that's gonna get the heart moving a little bit. And then R is read. So I'll literally just read, sometimes it's a page, sometimes it's 10 pages, but just anything that will give me maybe a new idea or a new tidbit for that day. And then third, uh, is scribe. So I'll usually write out, you know, 3 things that I want to happen that day, uh, and 3 things that I'm, I'm thankful for. And that whole thing, it may sound daunting, it may sound crazy. I can, I can get that done in like 15 minutes, 20 minutes tops. And Like I said, I'm not perfect. I don't get to it every day, but every time that I do get to it, my day is so, so, so much better.

51:49 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Good, good stuff. I actually have an interesting connection to that book. So Hal's coauthor through that series is a woman named Honorée Corder, and Honorée and I actually started a mastermind together that we were a part of for a number of years and they've done so. Not only is kind of that that core Miracle Morning book. It's, it's a great read. And I think using it as sort of an initial guide, I've evolved mine over time sort of from that, but, but definitely practiced it sort of the way that it was initially described and then have kind of tweaked it from there. But they've done specialized versions. So there is actually a Miracle Morning for Sales Professionals book as well.

52:28 Scott Barker: No way.

52:29 Scott Ingram: Cool.

52:29 Scott Barker: I have to check it out. There you go. Love it.

52:32 Scott Ingram: So good to, good to check that out. And then what about like later, later in the day? What's going on, whether it be after work or any of that kind of stuff?

52:43 Scott Barker: Yeah. So for me, 2 really important things that are kind of outside of work that are super essential for me feeling good and working at my peak are, of course, getting to the gym. I try and do that right after my day finishes up. I've played around with early morning. I've done lunch. Right now my routine is is I'll go after work. Jury's out if that's the best way, but making sure that you're taking care of your body physically and then eating healthy is huge, huge, huge for me anyway. You know, I allow myself to be more indulgent in, you know, maybe dinnertime, but eating healthy at lunchtime and breakfast is essential just for my brain to be at optimal level. So I used to literally eat a kale salad and some boiled eggs like every single day. And it was just what my body digested well and my brain performed well on.

53:43 Scott Ingram: Awesome. And then any other kind of core habits and routines that fit in there that we haven't already talked about?

53:51 Scott Barker: I mentioned I'm an avid reader. So before bed, I try and block off half an hour to read something that's outside of the realm of business. Don't get it twisted. I don't just read boring sales books. Not that they're boring, but you know what I mean. You know what I mean. I'm not just all consumed in that world because I think it's so important just relating to people. Get in other worlds other than the sales and marketing world. One of my favorite books, I don't know if you've read it, is just finished both Sapiens and then Homo Deus. If you haven't read them, they're amazing books.

54:28 Scott Ingram: Yeah, I started Sapiens. I've not finished that one. Other things keep getting in the way of it.

54:34 Scott Barker: It's a lot. It throws a lot at you for sure. It took me way longer than it normally would to read that one. But it's a brief history of mankind for any history buffs out there. It's very cool. Reading is essential. And then podcasts like this one. It's something easy digestible whether it's your commute. Whether it's when you're making your lunch or anything, I love podcasts like, like this one.

54:57 Scott Ingram: Yeah. What, what are some of the favorites? What are the, you know, top 3 or 4 that you, that are basically on the weekly rotation no matter what?

55:03 Scott Barker: Yeah. So gotta shout out the Sales Hacker Podcast. Of course. I also like, I really like Drift has a cool one. It's called Seeking Wisdom. It's more marketing focused, but they get some cool guests and they've got some, uh, a cool banter between the two of them. Uh, their VP of marketing and their CEO. And then of course you gotta, the Joe Rogan experience is always, uh, intellectually stimulating. And I just watched a, I listened to the one with, with Elon Musk that was very, very cool.

55:34 Scott Ingram: Nice. And a little bit controversial. I haven't, haven't heard that one, but people were pretty upset about it.

55:39 Scott Barker: People are, yeah. He's like, he might get ousted, but I didn't, you know, he's just, it is what it is. But I would, I would recommend it. It was cool.

55:47 Scott Ingram: Yeah. That's, that's fantastic. All right. So now let's talk about kind of the sales process that you've developed in this playbook. So why don't you talk about however you want?

55:58 Scott Barker: Yeah. So I think the playbook really, for, for me, when I talk about like my personal playbook, it's basically just a brain dump. It's making sure that I have everything that I'm doing on a daily basis documented. It. Everything down from my email templates, ones that are working, ones that aren't. There's a lot of tools out there, you know, like Outreach that can help you A/B test these things, make sure it's all documented, which ones are working the most effectively, make sure you're tracking your numbers. Like how many, you know, calls does it take to get an opportunity? How many opportunities do I need to get a closed one deal? What's my my average deal size looking like? What's the average, you know, length of sale that I'm having? Can I bring that down? And it's really just, it's documenting for the sake of once you have something down, that's when you can, you can look at it and start experimenting and hopefully bringing those numbers, you know, trending the way that you, that you want them to. So without going, you know, it's a loaded question. We could take it a lot of ways. I'm also a fan of You know, building out a mutual success plan in your playbook, meaning, you know, once you have, you've identified an opportunity, building out literally to closed won, exactly how you're gonna get there. So, you know, in a week's time, we need to make sure that we're talking to the actual decision maker and the signer. We need to make sure that they're involved in the decision. Week 2, let's make sure that we're doing a broader you know, demo with the entire, you know, let's say marketing team or whoever you're selling into. From there, let's make sure we identify any other, you know, stakeholders that are going to be involved. Week 4, you know, CEO sign-off, legal, yada yada. And then me, I love actually socializing that with my actual, you know, prospect or person that I'm talking to. That's why I call it a mutual success plan. So they And if they're going to be a champion and they're pumped about your product and service, as they should be by the time they're an opportunity, they're usually on board and excited to, to get into that plan.

58:11 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. Scott, is there a, uh, maybe a sanitized version of, of the playbook and that success plan that, that you can share that we can include in the notes for folks that might want to use that as a, as a template or a guide for creating their own?

58:25 Scott Barker: I may, I may be able to, to wrinkle something up. Yeah, leave that with me. I know I've got a few things that I can share. Let me… I can probably wrestle something up.

58:36 Scott Ingram: Perfect. So again, folks, if you go to top1.fm/52, we'll have whatever Scott is able to invent in the next month or so before this episode goes live. We'll have some great stuff up there for you. And I think that'll be really valuable because, you know, that's probably the most A question that I always ask towards the end is, you know, what do you want to know about other sales professionals? And I think that's it, right? It's like, well, what's the playbook? You know, what are you doing? How are you structuring the day? All the stuff that we tend to get into. I think just finding different examples of that, being able to use different guides, being able to try different things. I think the Miracle Morning is just a great example of that, right? Like, there's a routine. Like, if you don't have your own morning routine, you know, want something to start with, that's a good place to start, right? Will it end… will it end up that way and you're gonna be doing exactly that for the next 10 years? No, probably not. You're gonna customize it and, and go, well, and, and that's a good transition. So you said in the beginning too, you're doing A/B testing, you're really iterating on, on all of this. What is that process of iteration for you?

59:42 Scott Barker: Yeah, so the process of iteration… so again, I'm a huge proponent of technology. I live and die by a lot of the tools that I use. For iterating on different email templates, cadences, sequences. Of course, I rely heavily on Outreach. But for me, like, I think you have to iterate on everything. Like, I just don't let myself sit still ever, really. Like, when I am done, you know, be like, okay, here's my personas, these are my ideal customer profile. I'm looking at that every month because I'm going to have new information, that's gonna change that. So making sure that you're always going back, I think it's super, super important, right? So for your personas, your ideal customer profiles, your actual cadences, sequences, your mutual success plan, it's never unfortunately a one-and-done thing. Maybe not unfortunately, maybe fortunately. It keeps this game of sales exciting. There's always new tech coming out, for you to look at, utilize, and change the process for the better.

1:00:47 Scott Ingram: Yeah, great, great stuff. So Scott, is there a, like, particular sales philosophy that you subscribe to?

1:00:55 Scott Barker: You know, I know there's all like the… there's the Challenger and there's Sandler and all those things. I wouldn't say that I subscribe to any particular one of those. I've been exposed to a lot of them. So I think I've been lucky enough to tease what I want out of each one. If I could describe it in like one philosophy, it would be, you know, consultative selling. I think that's the best approach that I've found. And that is essentially looking at yourself as a consultant rather than a sales rep and become so much of an expert that in your given field, that just by talking to a prospect, they are getting value from their interaction with you. And through doing so, they are going to be drawn to buy your product and service, not only for the product and service, but also so they can use you as a, as a tool as well.

1:01:51 Scott Ingram: That's fantastic. And then what about your style in sort of that consultative sales approach? How would you describe that?

1:01:58 Scott Barker: My style? Okay. Hmm. I think most people, we all kind of see ourselves a little bit different than most people do, right? But If I was going to say like my old, you know, employees, people that have worked for me or people I've worked for, I think that they would say my style is laid back. I'm a laid back guy, but with one caveat, I have complete and 100% ownership over everything that I do. You know, anything I'm going to put my name behind, anything that I'm going to do, I'm going to own it and make it my own and take very much an entrepreneurial approach to everything that I do. And sometimes that has to be intrapreneurial, uh, you know, when you're working at organizations, but I think this idea of complete 100% ownership can take you, can take you far. And it's something that I've always, uh, prescribed to.

1:02:52 Scott Ingram: Well, I think that's such a great skillset and really required at the size and scale of, of a sales hacker, you know, pre-outreach, right? When, when you're the guy, You know, there's so many things you don't have a sales enablement and sales operations and tons of marketing resources and all this other stuff. Like you have got to figure out all of this stuff. And to your point, at the end of the day, you have to kind of own it all. You're, you're responsible for those results. There's no excuses.

1:03:23 Scott Barker: Totally. And even if you're in, you know, a larger organization, I've been part of bigger organizations as well. And, you know, you may have to be a little bit more political in your dealings and with, and what you're doing, right? You can't just, Go and step on a bunch of people's toes. But if you need something done, you know, build out the business case so that there's no other answer but yes to getting it done. Put the time and the thought and the effort into it. Build it out, and you know, get what you need to be successful in in your job.

1:03:52 Scott Ingram: Yeah, fantastic. Now what about the motivation side of things? What drives all of this for you?

1:03:58 Scott Barker: This is the question, hey? This is this is. This could be a whole other podcast, I think. But for me, I think what drives me when I kind of break it down is happiness, right? Like, I'm constantly checking in with myself to see how I'm feeling. And for me, happiness comes a lot of times from achievement. Achievement in, you know, career-wise, achievement in my relationships that I have with other people, monetary, you know, lots of different ways to look at it. But I'm literally every day in and out, you know, checking in with myself to see how I'm feeling. And if something feels off, I, I want to know why. And I think my gut check of when I'm like, okay, not feeling that motivated today. But let's strip it down and look at my life and my accomplishments through you know, the eyes of my, my 8-year-old self. I will literally do this exercise and be like, okay, would my 8-year-old self be happy with A, the person I am, uh, the decisions I'm making and what I've accomplished to date? I think it's a really good way to give yourself some perspective. And if I'm answering yes to that question, well, I know I'm on the right track and it will usually give me motivation to, uh, go make that 8-year-old self even more proud.

1:05:26 Scott Ingram: That's a pretty fascinating process. And I bet you could do the same thing and flip it over and think about it from the perspective of your 80-year-old self. I was just reading an article before we jumped on about Reid Hoffman. And, you know, they say when you get to the end of life, you tend to focus on the regrets. So I think there's that opportunity to look back and go, okay, at this point, like right now, would I regret what I'm doing or more likely not doing in this period that's going to impact 80-year-old Scott? When I can say 80-year-old Scott, because that applies to both of us.

1:06:02 Scott Barker: Absolutely.

1:06:03 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

1:06:03 Scott Barker: I think you can look at it both ways, right? Whether you're very young or very old, it just gives you a new perspective to look at your, the problem that's coming up or your, why your lack of motivation is there and kind of kicks you into high gear.

1:06:18 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Now, these next couple of questions, I'm particularly interested in your perspective because I think you maybe have more exposure than the average bear to kind of what sales is and what sales is doing. So is there something you believe that the average sales professional would think is crazy?

1:06:37 Scott Barker: Yeah, I think so. So I would say I put a huge, huge onus on content creation. And content creation in this day and world, this day that we live in, is so, so unbelievably important. Again, it goes back to the whole establishing yourself as an expert and creating content and putting it on social and putting it out there allows you to do this en masse and at scale. Also build rapport at mass and on scale. These are all things that we know as sales professionals are crucial to us being successful in our one-to-one interactions to get deals done. But I think we live in a world now where you can do this en masse, which is unbelievably powerful. And I don't think enough sales reps are taking this side seriously. And if you do, because not that many are, you can establish yourself very quickly. So that, that's one thing. I think creating content and looking at yourself as a bit of a marketer as well, someone marketing yourself and your skillset. I think we've gone away from this kind of economy that was like, hey, what did you do in the past? And then you show people your resume and stuff. We've gone away from that and we're now at a place where it's like, show me today. Show me what's going on in your world. Show me you still know what's up. And that's what content allows you to do.

1:08:06 Scott Ingram: That's that's awesome. I mean, certainly I subscribe to that theory with with some of the content that I create. But you know, I think there's a couple of fascinating things that are that are happening now. And and you know, we you can even look at some of the things that that I'm doing just as a bit of a case study. So James Carbary, who runs the B2B Growth Show, they're thinking about this, and and he's got a kind of a B2B podcast agency.

1:08:29 Scott Barker: James is awesome.

1:08:30 Scott Ingram: James is awesome. Well, and he's sort of creating this idea. They're looking at, can we create a category? And the category they want to create is content-based networking. And I sent him an email. I'm like, dude, this is what I do. If you look at the podcast, if you look at the book, I mean, the book is such a fascinating example. Here we are a week away from publishing a 302-page book. I started this project 5 months ago with, with no idea, with zero words written, didn't know what the title was, didn't know what this was going to be. I wrote, I wrote, I don't know what the word is I need to use for what I did because I only wrote 7% of the book. I wrote this tiny amount of what ended up being close to 80,000 words, but the relationships that got built from all of that and hopefully the way that I'm able to, or we, it's not just I, right? At this point, there's 19 others involved in this, in this project. And in addition to all the other folks, it takes a village to pull this thing together. We are trying to contribute and give back to the sales ecosystem because we've certainly gotten a lot out of it. It doesn't have to be something that you do. I feel like I'm like the Tom Sawyer of content creation, right? I do a lot of it, but very little of it is original. I just ask questions.

1:09:51 Scott Barker: Totally, absolutely. And that's the thing, people think it's so, so daunting and so crazy, but like, think of, you know, we've had this conversation now, we've had, you know, hour and a half conversation together. Like, our bond is gonna be like strong now, you know? Like, we get to know each other a little bit. You know something about me, I know some things about you. If you're ever gonna approach me and ask me to make an intro or something, Like, that's, that's a no-brainer to me, right? So it's just about getting in front and having connections and you can do that through, through content.

1:10:23 Scott Ingram: It's cool. Yeah. Well, and then a lot of people don't know I'm doing the exact same thing in my day-to-day, right? Where I work with marketers. I have another show I've been running for 2 years called Inspired Marketing and same kind of level, right? We're over 50 episodes into that and I've talked to Lenovo and Dell and UnitedHealth Group and the Chicago Bears and all these folks. And many of them have become clients because of the relationship that just comes out of that. Because again, that whole thing or this whole thing isn't about me. It's all about you. It's all about them. And I think those opportunities are, are so, so fantastic and important. And, and there's, there's no shortage of opportunities to sort of create, uh, those, those types of situations and those types of relationships. So Scott, what about the flip side, is there something you believe that the average sales professional would think is crazy?

1:11:15 Scott Barker: I would say… might get some, uh, heat from this from the sales managers out there or the, the VPs… but something I don't really subscribe to is, you know, do put your head down, do what you're told, follow the process, and grind it out. You know, maybe you're very lucky and you work for the you know, the small percentage, like 5% or so of sales processes out there that are perfect and they're cutting edge and they're doing everything right. And that's awesome. But I think there's always room for improvement. And I think you should always be looking at ways you can do things better, be tactful with how you approach your manager or try and implement any changes. But again, going back to complete ownership, like maybe you have a great process, but you don't think you can make it like 1% better. Imagine if you can make it 1% better every single day by making small tweaks and just do it to your own, own process and reap the benefits. Invest in your own tech. I used to buy my own licenses to things and it would, uh, it would help me, you know, give me that edge I needed.

1:12:25 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Well, and thank you for saying that. Cause I skipped over the question that is kind of the key tools and apps, like what, what What is the Scott sales stack in your world? What's working the best for you today?

1:12:39 Scott Barker: Yeah, so we have a lot of partners at Sales Hacker. So this question might get me in trouble. But so I've used so many sales tech tools. I love Outreach. I don't think I could do my job without Outreach. I do love them. I love the whole category, really, just like I think it's gonna blow up. I think every sales org, you know, will have a sales engagement tool. In the next even 2 years. So some sort of sales engagement tool. I personally like Outreach. You need a data tool. My personal favorite is ZoomInfo. So you need to plug that in. Sales Navigator. If you're out there and you're a sales professional that doesn't use Sales Navigator, you're 5 years behind. You need a CRM. Of course, Salesforce is the obvious choice. I like Gong as well. Gong's pretty cool. Any sort of conversational intelligence tool. I think it's something unique we haven't seen too much of yet, and I think it's going to evolve and grow into something really, really cool. Other tools off the top of my head, I like just Slack. I couldn't really do business operations and get in touch with other parts of the organization without Slack. What else is my day-to-day? Let me see. I can go through my computer, see if I'm missing anything here. Oh, I love Vidyard as well. It's a cool, like, video messaging tool. I implemented that at past roles and saw a lot of success. Zoom, obviously, for communication. But yeah, those are, those are a few.

1:14:06 Scott Ingram: Good stuff. Any, anything on your phone that we missed?

1:14:08 Scott Barker: Let me see here. Yeah, also like a chat tool like, like Drift or Intercom. I got that straight to my phone as well. Those are, I think, quickly becoming table stakes as well.

1:14:22 Scott Ingram: Beautiful. Scott, let's talk about… this is kind of the soapbox, just pure advice-giving section. So, and I like to look at this from sort of 2 angles. The first is, what advice would you give to somebody that's just starting out in their sales career today?

1:14:39 Scott Barker: So just the soapbox. So I would say, I would challenge you to consume more industry-specific content. You got to become an expert. You don't have to be an expert at sales just yet because you're just starting out, but become an expert in your given field, especially if you plan to be there long-term, which I think you should strategically think about that. So consume that content, right? It's kind of like the, the more you input, the more you digest, the better words and writing that's going to come out. Out of your mouth. And I love how I said that so unbelievably not eloquently. Like it kind of wasn't helping my point, but you know, the better information you put in, the better information that it's going to come out essentially. So do that. Start building your, your personal brand. You know, you're new. That's okay. There's other people that are new. Just commiserate the challenges, share your learnings, and And, you know, again, it'll go far. And then third, start documenting your process now. So document your journey from being, you know, entry-level up until you take over the world, start documenting that process so you can look back and, you know, change and moderate your process. And you can see when you look back what worked, what didn't. Hindsight's 20/20.

1:16:06 Scott Ingram: That's fantastic, and that's great for me. So when you get to be the point five or ten years later, and you're number one and in some great role, and you have to come onto the Sales Success Stories podcast, it'll be so much easier to to tell that story because you will have written it all down.

1:16:19 Scott Barker: No doubt.

1:16:21 Scott Ingram: So what about for somebody that is they're further into their career, and and you can take this from whichever angle you want. Either they're they're at a point that they're struggling, or Or maybe they're doing okay, but they're middle of the pack. They're not at the top and they want to be at the top. What advice would you give to them?

1:16:41 Scott Barker: So I gave this advice. So sometimes in a mentor-mentee relationship, you get to give advice the other way. So I gave this advice the other way the other day, and it was stop focusing on the next step. And this is going to sound counterintuitive. But stop focusing on the next step and stop focusing on being number one and bring it back to what either got you to number one in the first place, or when you were feeling good and, and kind of in, in the zone. And 9 times out of 10, I find that when people are in that zone, it's cuz they're focused on learning and they're focused on being the best version of themselves by, you know, learning and, and honing their craft and perfecting their craft. And it's easy once you get to the top to kind of think you, you have everything figured and you know everything and like, oh, why am I not, uh, you know, seeing the results I want to? I'm doing what I've always done. Stop focusing on the next step. Start focusing on learning again, because there's always more to learn.

1:17:43 Scott Ingram: That is good stuff. Awesome. What would you want to know about the top sellers in other organizations, Scott?

1:17:50 Scott Barker: I would want to know, you know what, I'm always curious to know what, like, what's the next channel people think is coming. You know, like we've got email, we've got social, we've got the good old phone. You could arguably put chat in there. You could maybe put video in there. But I'm always interested in people like, you know, trying new channels because I think anytime a channel opens up in sales, if you're one of the first people on that channel, you can have a lot of success quickly because it's not saturated yet, right? Like people started using Twitter and then that worked, but then got saturated.

1:18:27 Scott Ingram: They're…

1:18:27 Scott Barker: I think that's what makes me the most curious because I've seen the success you can have if you're one of the early adopters in, in these channels. So, you know, SMS, people are using SMS now in tactful ways, not of course for prospect prospecting, but I would try and pick their brains because I would argue that the top 1% at organizations, maybe some of them have opened up a new channel or using a channel more effectively, and that's giving them an edge.

1:18:55 Scott Ingram: Love that. And, and I mean, one, I think it's just a great question, right? It's, it's something to be asking yourself as well. I mean, do you… what do you think?

1:19:03 Scott Barker: Yeah, I've got, I've got a lot of… this is kind of what I think, but it's kind of what consumes me because I know the edge it can give. I think, I think SMS is gonna play a role, and then I think we're gonna see the evolution of video in a big way where like we're not going to have to necessarily like set up these formal like Zoom meetings and send people a link. Like I think you'll be able to get like on-demand video. I think people just like crave the human touch again, so to speak. And I think video allows you to do that. So I think that overlaid with kind of this SMS where you can get answers quick, you can get results quick. It's kind of the anti-human. So it's kind of like the 2 ways that people communicate, right? It's like straightforward and then okay, I want a human approach. So I think we're going to see the evolution of video and then mixed in with more of this instant chat SMS kind of deal.

1:19:55 Scott Ingram: Yeah, fascinating stuff. Well, we have had a pretty incredible conversation. I'm really excited to see especially what you're able to put together from a sales playbook success plan standpoint for us. But I always try and end on something actionable. We've talked about a lot of stuff, but now as we wrap up, it'll be two weeks before. The person listening to this will be able to download the next interview that I do. What would you challenge them to do in this period to improve themselves and improve their results?

1:20:28 Scott Barker: Yeah. So without, you know, reiterating myself too much, you know, I would say you're going to have to, you know, summarize it, you know, consume the content. And I mentioned this before, so it might be redundant, but consume more industry-specific content. From your persona's industry. Start building your brand. How you can do that… you don't have to reinvent the wheel. Digest an article, post it on LinkedIn with your thoughts about it, ask a question to get some comments going. Start building that and then start documenting your sales process.

1:21:04 Scott Ingram: Easy. I love it. Scott, this has been awesome. Thank you for taking the time with me today and helping us all improve.

1:21:10 Scott Barker: Scott, thank you so much. That was That was a lot of fun. Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast. To be sure you never miss an episode and for an invitation to our Sales Success Community powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter at top1.fm.