5: Becoming the #1 SDR with Jennifer Linker of Vision Critical

0:08 Scott Ingram: You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve. To learn more, visit us at top1.fm. Here's your host, Scott Ingram. Today I'm joined by Jennifer Linker. Jennifer is the top business development associate at Vision Critical. Thanks for joining me today, Jenn.

0:32 Jennifer Linker: No problem. Thanks for having me.

0:34 Scott Ingram: So with this episode, we're going to start to delve into some of the other sales roles. So I talked about in the intro episode, I wanted to have a little bit of diversity in the types of industries and the types of roles that we talk to. And this, this role of either SDR or BDR, whatever the people refer to it, sales development rep or a business development rep, I guess in the old days we would call it inside sales, but it's this really specialized role that is primarily primarily about setting meetings and, and creating pipeline for the field team. So I actually have a couple of these conversations lined up. Um, I probably won't put them in order as they go live, uh, just so this doesn't start to sound like the SDR role. But I think this is really important to listen to. One, if you're an SDR, obviously we want to have some great content for you. There will be some more episodes, uh, coming up. So if you go to top1.fm, get on the mailing list, one, we'll let you know about those, but we also have in the Sales Success Community, as those become available, you can actually get into a preview group and hear the episodes in advance. So there's neat opportunity for you there. But if you're in a regular sales roles, I feel like this, this SDR activity, these guys and gals are the best at opening doors and setting appointments. And I think that's very valuable to anybody. You've always got to prospect and be working on building some of your own pipeline. So that those are some of the insights that I hope get today. So without any further ado, let's get into the conversation with Jenn. And as I always do, I reach out, uh, to my guests in advance and ask them to prepare the top 3 things that have allowed them to get to the top and really differentiate themselves. And clearly she didn't put it on her list, but Jenn is obviously an overachiever because she sent me 5 things. So Jenn, I'll let you, I'll let you dig into that list and, and take it on however you like.

2:34 Jennifer Linker: Sure. Thanks so much. So yeah, so basically when Scott messaged me, he asked me for 3 things and I was sitting in my room thinking, what are the 3 things that make me successful? And then I was listing them out and I realized that I came up with a bigger list than I anticipated. And I think that it's great to share my learning, share what it is that makes me successful because, you know, I think that it's good to spread, spread the love. And so one of the things that I would say that makes me successful is being organized. So every morning I come into work, I have a strategy, I have a plan, and I always write out a calendar structure for my day in terms of what I'm going to do every morning. And it's not just like a half hour, 30 minutes here, 30 minutes there. I actually think about how long it's going to take me to accomplish this a specific goal, and then I structure my day around that. My second thing is being goal-oriented. So I try to, like I mentioned before, come into work every day, I try to set a goal for myself. So if it's getting a meeting today, if it's having 100 activities, whatever that is, I always try to make sure that I accomplish that goal. My third thing is being open-minded, so always willing to learn. We always have something every morning called a fire drill, And that's when we all stand around the circle and talk about our success. And so whenever my boss, colleague, friend, anyone that I really talk to mentions something that they did that was kind of different or new, I always, always try it first thing. And if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. But if it does, then that's great as well. I'm future-oriented. So one of the things about being on top is you have to try to stay on top. So I always try to think about what is it that's going to What's going to keep me number one next week and the week after and next month? What are my goals? So just because I had a really great week this week doesn't mean I'm gonna have a great week next week. So that's something that I also focus on. And finally, being courageous. I think that this is something that everyone should try, is going outside of your comfort zone, asking questions, going up to your boss, going up to the CMO, asking them, what is it that made you successful? What is it that helped you in life? Whenever there's anything that I don't know the answer to, I always try to ask.

5:14 Scott Ingram: That was very succinct. I love it. So, to recap, the 5 things were organized, goal-oriented, open-minded, future-oriented, and courageous. And some of these, I'm sure we'll come back to and will be themes throughout, but I'm most curious about the goal orientation. You talked about that really being more of a daily practice. Do you have larger timeframes that you're also applying that to, whether it be weekly or monthly, and how do you incorporate those different time intervals?

5:44 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, absolutely. So let me start off big. So for the next 6 months, basically, I want to be the top SDR and I want to be promoted to being a senior sales development rep. So what that basically means is I have to produce 110% of my quota every month for 6 months. And so I basically work backwards from there. So how do I get that? So I have to figure out how many calls I have to make every day, how many emails I have to send out, how many intros I have to get every week, and what's my conversion rate from intros to what we call SQOs, sales qualified opportunities. So that's the way that I do it. It's, I have a long-term plan, obviously, in terms of where I would see myself going in the future, but I also have a short-term plan in terms of how I'm actually gonna get there and what the process looks like.

6:40 Scott Ingram: Great stuff. Well, we're going to keep going on this and dig a lot deeper through the rest of the episode. But before we do that, I want to thank my inaugural sponsor, which is Nudge. Nudge is a modern sales platform that leverages relationship strength to help you find and keep your best customers. I've been using Nudge myself since a very early beta version, and they continue to add more and more to their solution. So if you value relationships the way I do, then you're going to want to check out Nudge, and you can sign up for free at neednudge.com. That's N-E-E-D-N-U-D-G-E.com. Okay, so now we get to go back a little bit more towards the beginning. And Jenn, I guess it didn't make sense to ask earlier because I always like to start the episode with that immediate value. So, if folks only listen for the first 5 or 10 minutes, they've got something to take away. But talk to us just a little bit about Vision Critical. And so, for those who aren't familiar.

7:35 Jennifer Linker: Sure, I'd love to talk about Vision Critical. The part of the reason why I say that is because I'm very passionate about the solution that we sell, and I think that that's number one for anyone that is in sales. You should always be passionate about what you're selling. So Vision Critical sells an engagement tool, we call it an Insight Community, and it allows you to basically reach out to thousands of your customers on an ongoing basis and ask them any question you want and be able to get real-time responses from them. So it's a new and revolutionary way to interact with your customers.

8:10 Scott Ingram: Beautiful. And talk about your role specifically and how you got to number 1.

8:15 Jennifer Linker: Yeah. So, so I think that in terms of how I actually got to number 1, I think that that's more of a process. I think that it had a lot to do with learning and, you know, failing quickly, picking myself back up. But I would say the number 1 thing is just being open to learning. So I think that I am the type of person that is very goal-oriented. Oriented, so I like to have a goal, and my goal was to be successful here. So I just kind of thought about what is it that's going to make me successful, and then kind of worked my way through there. So yeah, I think it kind of boils down to the reason why I'm number 1 is just because of how I structure my day, how I'm always persistent, I'm always looking into the future, and kind of always looking for the next thing, looking for what else is going to get me a meeting, what else can I do? To ensure that this meeting stays on the calendar, that kind of thing.

9:15 Scott Ingram: Awesome. And quantify for us, what does it mean to be at the top at Vision Critical?

9:20 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, so the success metrics for Vision Critical are the amount of meetings… sorry, the amount of meetings that are booked per month.

9:30 Scott Ingram: Not the amount of beatings?

9:32 Jennifer Linker: Not the amount of beatings, no. We don't allow that. That would be an HR violation. But so the amount of meetings that are booked per month and the amount of opportunities that are booked per month. So, um, the average sales development rep, um, they book about 12 meetings per month and I'm at 17. And the average opportunities that are opened, um, are about 4 on average and I'm at 6. So basically what that means for the last 6 months is I've generated just over, uh, close to 100 meetings and I've generated just over $3 million in recurring revenue and pipeline.

10:11 Scott Ingram: So in round numbers, sounds like you're about 150% sort of across the board.

10:16 Jennifer Linker: Yeah.

10:16 Scott Ingram: Beautiful. How did you get into sales?

10:19 Jennifer Linker: So it's kind of a funny story. Basically, I started off selling knives, and one of the things that I learned about that is that I was really young when I did it. It was kind of like I would go, I would call up my friend's parents and I would ask them, oh, can I come into your kitchen and sell you knives? And obviously they were super nice and they'd say, oh, okay. Okay, yeah, sure, we'll listen to your pitch. But I ended up realizing that when I did that, I got pretty good at it, and people always used to compliment me on, wow, you're really good at selling things and really, really good at persuading people to purchase these knives. And so then I started out selling knives, and I think that it just kind of was a natural thing for me. And then I moved into working at my alma mater, McGill University, where I called alumni and I solicited them for donations. Just to give you a picture there, just on an average shift, which is about 4 hours, you would make about 400 calls. And so, I'd be dialing from the moment I got there to the moment I left, and you would get about a 10% answer rate. So, one of the things that I learned that I really liked there was just talking to people and learning about their story, learning about how they got into McGill, what they really liked about it, what they didn't like about it, about it, you know, like why they choose to give back on a regular basis. So I just loved learning about people. And then after that, um, I decided that I really did believe that sales was for me. Um, my whole family is in sales, so I just thought it was just a natural path for me. Um, so yeah, that's kind of how I ended up in Vision Critical.

12:09 Scott Ingram: And, and talk about how did you set yourself up to move through the ranks so quickly into that number one spot at Vision Critical? Because you, you did As far as I can tell, it took you what, maybe 3 or 4 months before you were top of the leaderboard?

12:24 Jennifer Linker: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I would say that again, it's a process. So, what got me to be number 1 is I think my attitude and also just the realization that you don't stay number 1 for long. So, you have to always be thinking about what is it that's going to keep me there and how am I going to improve? Even with sales, I mean, when you look at sales as a whole, I mean, there are certain things that work, but after a while they become stale and boring and people don't react to it the same way that they did. And that's the same thing with booking intros is you have to be creative, you have to try new things. And I think that's kind of how I got to be number 1 is just letting my mind wander, like challenging myself and always wanting to be better.

13:10 Scott Ingram: So let's start to peel the onion back a little bit and dig into some of the routines and some of your process that has made all of this happen. And let's start with maybe your morning routine. How does that start? And take us through the steps.

13:24 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, for sure. So basically my morning always starts off listening to the news. I love, I love waking up, just kind of listening to what's happening on a daily basis. And then I get into work and I have my mug with me and I sit down. I usually show up at least like 20 minutes before we have our first meeting, the fire drill that I mentioned before. And I'll just check my emails. I'll go through the ones that are important. I look at my calendar and see what I have going on for the day and the week. And then I come up with a goal. So for example, last, or well, let's say this week, for example, my goal is to get a meeting every single day, at least one meeting. So I think about how am I going to do that? So I sit down and I think about what is it that is gonna get me the meeting? What is it for me in terms of my vertical that is most successful for me? So for me, it's booking. For me, it's calling. Calling people and getting them on the phone is how I get a lot of my meetings. And the second thing, which is something else that I will touch on later, is sending out invitations. And then what I do is I have a whiteboard and I plan out my day. So I'll say, I'll plan out based off of priorities. So my first priority is always getting that meeting, so I'll always make my calls in the morning. And then as the day goes on, I try to think about, okay, well, what's the next thing that I can do? I'll send out my emails, I'll do a slip by you, I'll send an invitation, and I prioritize even my cadence, which is a solution that we use from SalesLoft. What step in that cadence is actually the most successful for me. And so if that's, you know, sending an invitation or even like leaving a voicemail, those kinds of things, that's what I prioritize.

15:19 Scott Ingram: And what, what does a typical block look like? How much time are you spending calling? How many dials are you making? Kind of give us a little bit more detail on each of those chunks.

15:29 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, that's a great question. So, um, for it kind of depends on what else is happening in that day. So if I have like, um, a discovery call in the, in that day, So, anything that's an intro or a discovery call, I'm responsible for after it gets passed off to a sales qualified opportunity, which I'm not responsible for. So, anything, any part of that that I'm responsible for in terms of meetings that are in the calendar, I always will set aside time for. And then based off of that, I work my time around there. So, making calls, I usually spend 3 hours at least making calls every single day, sometimes more, sometimes less. It depends on the cadence, like I mentioned, the process. And then after that, I'll send out my emails, but I also, it gets more granular than that, like I mentioned, in terms of what types of emails do I send out, which types of emails are more successful. For us, it's the first 2 emails in the cadence are the most successful, and sending the invitation as well is also successful. So that's how I also schedule my time around that.

16:38 Scott Ingram: And do you think it's, is it the quantity of activities, whether it be the calls or the emails or the quality of those activities that contributes most to your odds of getting a meeting?

16:51 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, that's a great question. I think that that's like the golden, the golden question that everyone wants to know. And I honestly think it's both. I think that, um, if you only have quality emails, but you send out 10 emails, you're probably not going to get as many meetings as if you sent out like 100 100 or 150 emails and they weren't as great quality. So I think for me there's a balance. So I always try to add value to my emails. I always try to personalize them in any way that I can and always try to think in the customer first. So what is it that's gonna get… what is it that in this email is gonna make the customer actually, or the prospect, sorry, the prospect want to have a meeting with me?

17:35 Scott Ingram: And let's try and put some numbers against that because I totally get it's a balance. So it's not a fair question. But I mean, if you were allocating 100%, what percent is focused on quantity and what percent is on quality, whether that's your time or number of activities?

17:51 Jennifer Linker: Yeah. Well, to be honest, this is just like a number that I truly believe, but I think it's, I think it's 60/40. I think it's 60% activities and 40% quality. I think that, you know, If you can't come up with an amazing email, that's fine. Just send it. Just try to send something. And I think that that's kind of how I think about it is that I want to keep my numbers high because that's at the end of the day what gets meetings, more meetings. But you also want to provide some value to it because especially if you're reaching out to certain levels within the organization, like a C-suite level, you want to make sure that you're adding a good amount of value so that going to want to read your email.

18:39 Scott Ingram: Right. So what's the… you talked about your open-mindedness and, you know, listening to other things that might work and trying those out and being really creative. What's the secret sauce right now? What's, what's working best for you, whether it's a particular style or type of message? What's… what is it?

19:03 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, that's a great question. I think for me, My emails do vary quite a bit sometimes, so I think in terms of being creative, it's that I do a lot of A/B testing. So I'll say, okay, for these emails I'm gonna send out this particular message, and for these emails I'm gonna send out this particular message. But I think in terms of what's really successful for me right now is sending out invitations. So basically what that means is that I have a process within my my cadence in terms of how many calls I make and how many emails I send out. And there's a part that's about 3/4 of the way into the cadence where what I'll do is I'll call the prospect and I'll leave a message on their voicemail if they don't pick up saying, hi, so-and-so, seems like we haven't been able to find a time to connect, so what I'll do is I'll put something in your calendar and hopefully we can connect through there. And then I leave my name and then that's it. And I hang up the phone and I'll send them an invitation with a message saying something like, hi so-and-so, I'm sure you're very busy as everyone I speak to is planning out their strategy for the next fiscal year. Thought it'd be easier if I just put something in your calendar. Feel free to propose another time if it works for you. And then I'll add any form of value that I think is really important to them. And I get about a third of my meetings through there. Wow.

20:37 Scott Ingram: So it's a pretty good conversion rate.

20:38 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, it's a really good conversion rate. And if not, what I like, if I don't, like if I don't hear from them, what I'll do is I'll resend the invitation the next day. And most of the time I'll hear a response from the prospect. So they'll either decline the meeting, which is still good because I'm getting a response from them. And that way I can challenge them and say, look, I know that this is something that you're focusing on and this is something that we've helped your peers do. So let's at least just talk for 10 minutes. And even then, you have a good conversion rate there. So I think that the key is persistence, trying to make things simple for them. Like, I'm just gonna throw something in your calendar. And there's so many times when people even just be like, oh, I haven't heard from them at all up until this point. And they'll say, hi, Jennifer, can we do Friday at 2 o'clock? They'll just propose a new time. Or like, or they'll decline it and I can at least challenge them on it.

21:38 Scott Ingram: Yeah, great, great stuff. And I think at the end of the day, it's just being persistent. I would imagine that you get a fair amount of compliments or comments from folks that, hey, look, I've just been busy. I really appreciate you sticking through and, and, and doing this for me.

21:54 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, I definitely, I definitely get that. You know, people that are like, hey, Jenn, you know, you've been super persistent and like, I appreciate your effort, but I'm sorry, I'm just not interested. And that's where passion comes in. That's where, that's That's where you have to be passionate about what you're selling, because if you're not passionate, then you're not going to end up getting to the bottom line. So I'll respond with saying, hey, so-and-so, I totally understand. I'm sure you're really, really busy. I wouldn't be reaching out to you if this wasn't something that I really thought that you could benefit from. So it's just kind of showing them that I really believe in this product and I really believe in what I'm selling, and I think you really can benefit from it. So let's at least just talk for 10 minutes. And I think that I get a pretty good conversion rate off of that as well, just by selling with passion.

22:43 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. And no doesn't mean no, right? You just have to persist, but in a polite, professional way, which obviously that's what you're doing and adding value throughout, which is awesome.

22:53 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if someone's saying no, they're not… it's not a personal, like, I don't like you, no. I mean, it could be because who knows how how everyone's selling. But I mean, at the end of the day, you can't take no personally. You just kind of… I kind of view it as like either… sometimes I think of it as like as a learning experience. So if they're saying no to me, I think of it as like sometimes I'll even respond back saying, hey, thanks so much, can I get your feedback? Like, is there anything that I can improve on? And someone will say, oh no, like I'm just really busy at the moment, like appreciate your persistence, like message me in And when someone says anything like that, like call me back in a week or message me in May or whatever, I always do that because even then I may, I might even try to get them to reduce it to a shorter time. But I always think that sooner, right? Yeah, exactly. But I always think that it's important to follow up on those things. I think that a lot of people don't do that, but I think like it's important to, to follow up on those people because A, it shows that you're persistent and some people I'm not going to I have literally said, Jen, you're so persistent, so like, fine, I'll take a meeting with you. Um, and B, I think it also builds trust with your customers. I think that if you say, okay, I will follow up with you in May, and then you send them an email in May saying, hey, you asked me to follow up with you, then here I am, they'll be like, hmm, I, I feel like I can trust this person, and they'll be more willing to take a meeting with you.

24:22 Scott Ingram: Yeah, it's funny, I actually do that intentionally a little bit as a test. So people will reach out to me, and I will say, look, I'm really, really busy, which is typically true. Um, and I'll, I'll suggest a time where I think it might be a little bit lighter. Maybe I'm not going to be traveling as much. So, hey, look, this isn't a good time, but why don't you reach back out in 3 weeks or 4 weeks or whatever the period is? The beauty is that takes care of a good 90 to 95%. I'll never hear back from them again. And those that do follow up after that interval, I'm like, okay, cool. Like, this is somebody that has a good process that I can trust, that it's probably worth having a conversation. Conversation with them. It works.

25:00 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, exactly. And I think that a lot of people think like, wow, you know, like that's such a waste of time or that's so much work. But I think that at the end of the day, it really does. It's all about building relationships, right? It's all about building that trust and getting to know your prospect. It's like, I don't necessarily view it as just like a dollar sign. I view it as like these people are humans and like they're busy and you're busy and like let's try to like make something work together type thing. So Yeah, exactly.

25:31 Scott Ingram: So are there other habits or routines that are central to your success?

25:35 Jennifer Linker: Um, well, I mentioned that, you know, having a calendar, planning out your day, having a goal. I think that everyone should have a whiteboard. That's number one. Um, I think, uh, the other thing is being persistent, which is what else, uh, I also mentioned. And I think also doing research. So always, always before I reach out to a potential prospect, I always do research on their company. So I'll read articles in Google News, I'll look at their annual report just to get a sense of what their company's focusing on, and I'll always look at their LinkedIn so that I can at least personalize my email to what they're gonna be focusing on or how our solution can help them. But yeah, I think that, and always speaking in the client voice, always thinking about the client as a human and thinking about how can I add value to them, because I think, and I'm definitely a victim of this, this. When I first started off, it was more like, oh, Vision Critical does this, and oh, we're so great, and, you know, like, this is an amazing solution that you're gonna love. And I think that it's more like, how is this actually gonna help them, and how is this gonna really benefit them, is kind of where I try to structure my emails around more.

26:50 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. So if everybody should have a whiteboard, what should be on that whiteboard? Like, if you were to describe yours, what, what are the elements? How do you, how do you set that up.

27:00 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, that's great. So let me just paint a picture for you right now. So on the top left, I have SQOs. So I mentioned before, those are sales qualified opportunities. That's how I get paid. So that's very important.

27:13 Scott Ingram: Top left.

27:14 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, top left. And I have a number there, so based off of what I need to get for every month. So this month it's 6, and so I'll have 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and then I write out the companies that I've SQO'd. So far. Then right below that, I have another list that's called potential SCOs. So all the companies that should SCO this month or should SCO in the next, you know, whenever. And I make sure that I have that on a list so that I always am thinking about these people in terms of keeping this meeting on the calendar. That's a key. So if it's like a discovery call that might turn into a demo, I want to make sure that I have them on a list so that if I happen to come across some information I think would be valuable to them, I'll look at my board and I'll be like, oh yeah, that could be really great for Susan, and I'll just send it off to Susan. And then in the middle I have my schedule. And my schedule will change, so my schedule isn't like 8 till 8:30, 8:30 to 9, 9 to 9:30. It's like actual real time in terms of how long it's really gonna take me to do certain things. So I'll have a call block that's 3 hours, And I'll say, you know, whenever I, whenever that's on my calendar and trying to stick to your calendar is always like something that everyone should focus on as well. Is once you write out your calendar, it's not one of those things you want to just like, okay, I wrote out my calendar and like, that's, that's it. And then right below my calendar, I have a hit list of people that are at the top that I know are the right people that I want to reach out to. So I have their names. So whenever I'm just like, oh, I've done my calls and I have an extra 15 minutes on my call block, who should I call? Those people. I will call them like a bunch of times. And then, yeah. And then on the top right, I'll have… oh, on my top right, I'll have a to-do list. So I'll have like things that need to get done that either are really, really important, which I'll have like a circle, 2 circles and a star, 2 stars beside them, or I'll just have like a name or something that's going to remind me so that when I'm structuring out my calendar, I can at least like remember, oh yeah, I have to send John an email today and I'll like put that at the very bottom of my day and just like try to remember to do that.

29:39 Scott Ingram: And how many… I mean, like on the… I think you called it the hit list. Like how many names would you have in that section?

29:45 Jennifer Linker: It varies. I think it depends on your industry, depends on how many companies you've gone after in that industry. Some people have like active hit lists and some people have like companies that they haven't been able to get a meeting with, but they know that this specific person is the right person. So especially in our company, I think everyone has a hit list and it literally varies on numbers because it's your list and whoever you want to put on there. But people will call those people at just random times throughout the day, or even whenever they have an extra 10 minutes and just try to get them on the phone. And it's always a great story in the morning when you hear someone say, oh, I got someone on my hit list and we have a meeting. Like, I've had… I've heard stories of people that have literally tried to get in contact with this person for 3 months and haven't heard a word from them. And then they finally get them on the phone and they end up doing an intro, and then they want to do a demo like 2 days later, and then they end up buying their solution, like, to our solution, like, 2 months later. So it's like, it can be a really great success story in terms of like how quickly the sales cycle even goes.

30:54 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Now you had a colleague that actually introduced us, Manny, and he has his sales journal tool. Is, is some of this… I didn't get a chance to dig into that. Is some of the whiteboard stuff what's, what's in there, or is that a little bit different information? I'm sure you're familiar with it.

31:09 Jennifer Linker: Yeah. Yeah. So it's actually exactly the same. So Manny's sales journal is awesome. And when I look at it, it was so funny because the way that I structure my day and then he comes into work and he's like, oh, I made this sales journal. It's really, really successful and everyone is like asking me about it and wanting to buy it. And I was like, oh, like, can I take a look at it? So I looked at it and I'm like, this is exactly what I do every single day. And I think that it really does set those, set those, those average SDRs from the top ones is I think the key is to planning out your day and always having a goal in mind and always trying to accomplish that goal.

31:48 Scott Ingram: Very cool. And I'll put links to Manny and his sales journal in the, in the show notes if anybody wants to check that out. So speaking of of kind of those types of tools, are there apps and what else do you have kind of in your arsenal that you use beyond obviously your phone and email?

32:07 Jennifer Linker: Yeah. So I use LinkedIn Sales Navigator. I use ZoomInfo because I can't… I'm literally throwing the statistic. I don't know the exact numbers, but I do know that there's something like if you call a prospect directly, they'll answer 60% of the time. Whereas if you call them through like one of those directories and they'll answer like 20% of the time or like something like that. So it's like, it's just a huge, it's a bigger conversion rate. So using ZoomInfo and having that direct number really, really helps. And also having those direct emails as well, those, that really like knowing which email is the right email is really, really important and saves you a lot of time. I also use SalesLoft, which is great. And I even use that for like, we have something called inbound leads. So someone that will like view our content has asked for a callback or something like that, and I'll get like a notification through my email. I'll just throw them in like a cadence that I created myself, and I'll just like… I'll just more like a reminder of like, oh, I have to send this person an email today type thing.

33:12 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And for those that aren't familiar with SalesLoft, the cadence is… it's basically a series of touches that you program in advance, right? So it might be the first step is gonna… I'm gonna call, and 2 days later I'm gonna send email A, and at each point you can sort of personalize and customize as you go. And is that what you're also using? You mentioned kind of A/B testing some of your techniques. I assume you're using SalesLoft to do those tests?

33:36 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, exactly.

33:37 Scott Ingram: Awesome.

33:38 Jennifer Linker: Yeah. Yeah. SalesLoft is great because it helps you just stay organized. And I think that that's like when you have like over 100 prospects on the go, it's like, how can you remember to send this person an email or do this or do that? It's like, it's through SalesLoft, and there's all… there's so many different techniques out there in terms of like the conversion rate for how many outreaches you do. So, um, yeah, like having that secret sauce, I'm sure like every company has their, their own way of how they reach out to their prospects. Yeah.

34:08 Scott Ingram: Now, Jen, what does your information diet look like? You mentioned you start your day with the news. What, what else are you reading and watching and things like that through the day?

34:17 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, so that's a great question. So when you asked me that, I was thinking like, um, what is my information diet? Because it does change on a regular basis. And what I realized was, is my information diet is all about self-improvement. So what I'll do is I'll look at myself and I'll think about one thing that I want to improve. So for example, when I first started off at Vision Critical, one of the things that I was really struggling with was adding value to projects. Prospects. And so I really wanted to focus on that. So what I did was I had a goal I came up with. I want to improve the value. And then I tried to surround myself with that type of information. So I would read books. I read Conversations That Win the Complex Sale. And most importantly, what I'd also do is I'd surround myself with people that I knew had that skill that I wanted to get. And what I'd do is I would ask them a bunch of questions about it. So I'd basically just pick their brain forever about, you know, how do you add value or how do you know how to, how to like, you know, target your email to this specific persona and then change it to this one? And I think that adding value is something that a lot of beginning salespeople and even as you like move throughout your career is something that a lot of people struggle with. So I always wanted to surround myself myself with people that I knew had that skill. And even now, I'll always go up to a colleague if there's something that like I'm not sure about, or if I know that they do something really, really well, I'll just ask them like, hey, how do you do that? Like, what is your… what's your process like? And our team, I'm really lucky. I mean, I work in a really great environment where everyone is really open to sharing their secret sauce and telling me how they are successful. And we always share successful emails with each other and we always like tell each other how we're getting the most of our meetings. So that's why going on this podcast, I'm so excited to do that because I get to share it with, you know, everyone that listens to this podcast and hopefully they can take something away from it and change some of the things that they're doing that actually will make a difference.

36:34 Scott Ingram: Well, and I think not just the sharing, right? The fact that you are, number one, have been consistently, but continue to recognize there's always better. There's always something there I can learn. There's always something I can try. And you're so so not only open to that, but really seeking it out and implementing it immediately.

36:54 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, that's the thing. I think that like, that's the key is like whenever someone says like, oh yeah, I just, you know, I just send them an invitation and like, and you know, I just say this specific thing. A lot of people will be like, huh, that's really interesting. And they'll sit at their desk and they won't do it. But what I would recommend is just do it. Just like sit down at your desk and be like, okay, I'll just send out one or two or hopefully more than that because you can't really like, you know, have a real statistical…

37:22 Scott Ingram: yeah, and that was not a sample size.

37:25 Jennifer Linker: Exactly. But, you know, like, you would send out a certain amount of emails or a certain amount of invitations and just say like, okay, we'll see how this goes. And if it doesn't work out, then at least you tried, right?

37:35 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

37:36 Jennifer Linker: And there are also certain things that people do that like they'll recommend to me and I'll try and I'll be like, oh, that doesn't sound like me at all. And I just like won't do it again, you know. But at least I know that that doesn't work for me.

37:47 Scott Ingram: Right. Beautiful.

37:49 Jennifer Linker: Beautiful.

37:49 Scott Ingram: Jenn, how would you describe your style?

37:52 Jennifer Linker: Genuine. I would honestly say that I try to come… I try to talk to every prospect like I would talk to my friend. And I think that for me, like who I am as a person is I'm a genuine person and I really do care about people and I really do want to help people. And I think that's what also motivates me is like helping people. And I think the key to that is believing in your product and believing in what you do. And I really do believe that I am helping people. So I think that because of that, because I believe in what I'm doing, I feel genuine in my conversations with people.

38:27 Scott Ingram: So key. So key. So from a motivation standpoint, you're obviously very goal-driven. What underlies that? Like what, what drives you to get to the goals? How are you driving yourself to stay committed to your calendar and stick with all of the process that you've set up for yourself? That's obviously working so well?

38:49 Jennifer Linker: Well, I wish I could say that the answer to that is something that other people can implement in their daily lives. I mean, they can if this is who they are, but personally, it is a personal… it's a personality trait. So I'm very goal-oriented and I am a perfectionist. So I try to perfect everything in life. And I feel like that I set these really high expectations for myself. So I think that sales really translate well into that because I have, I always set really high goals for myself in life. So it's kind of like the same thing in sales. So as long as I don't be too hard on myself and as long as I allow myself to have failures and pick myself up and be like, it's okay, you know, like onto the next one, then I find that I actually have a great time. I have so much fun in my job and I feel like I can be creative and I Yeah.

39:46 Scott Ingram: And what's interesting about that, I mean, I think a lot of people think of the SDR type role as a stepping stone, and it sounds like you do as well, but I, it's really hard to be successful and get to that next level if you're not enjoying what you have to do to get there. And I'm curious, maybe you can talk a little bit about both that journey and that path that you're on and where you'd ultimately like to get to. And maybe how I think reading between the lines and some of this, it sounds like you're very well supported in that path at Vision Critical?

40:21 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, so I am very also vocal about where I want to be in life, and I think that that's another thing that a lot of people should do is if you have an idea of where you want to be in the future, tell people. Because there is this book that came out, I can't remember what it is, I'm just… anyways, but basically it talks about how if you tell if you tell a lot of people a goal that you have, eventually you're gonna do it. So, if you tell, you know, like all your friends and coworkers that you're gonna go to the gym tonight, and then you don't go to the gym tonight, you're gonna feel way worse about yourself than if you didn't tell anyone. So, it's kind of like, tell everyone that you know where you wanna be in life, where you wanna succeed, and people around you are gonna try to help you, and they're gonna try to support you in that goal. So, where I wanna be in life is, I would love to be an outside rep. So, I'd love to have more of that face-to-face interaction with my customers, being able to really develop those relationships and get to know them as people and really understand their pain points and how I can help them along the way. So that's kind of like where I want to be in life. But for now, I'm just, I'm having a great time and the people that I work with are so supportive and they're so friendly. And I really do feel like that my directors, the managers, they're all in it to win it and they all want me to succeed and they want everyone else on our floor to succeed. So, it kind of creates that type of environment where you come into work every day excited because everyone wants you to succeed. Everyone wants you to do well.

41:58 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And it's such a great environment and culture and all those great things. I have some friends actually looking at LinkedIn. I forgot we're working with you. So, I can talk to you about that afterwards. Is there something you believe that the average SDR would think is crazy?

42:18 Jennifer Linker: So that was also another tricky question. I was like, that I had a difficult time figuring out, but I think that if there's something that I believe the average SDR would think is crazy, I think that the thing is sending out unsolicited emails, sending out an invitation. Like, first you have to leave a voicemail on their phone telling them that you're gonna do that, because if you don't, then you're conversion rate's way smaller. But if you send a voicemail saying, hey, I'm gonna put this in your calendar, and then you send it, send it out, um, my success rate is huge off of that. So I highly recommend that you try that. And I'm happy to send over a template of like what I would say in my email. It's literally 2 sentences, so it's not like rocket science or anything. But, uh, yeah, I'm happy to share it. Beautiful.

43:07 Scott Ingram: We'll put that into the, into the Sales Success Community, into a little, little tidbit for those that are more deeply engaged with us. That's What about the flip side? Is there something that you think the average SDR that's not consistently doing 150% would think that you think is crazy?

43:24 Jennifer Linker: Well, to be honest with you, I really do believe that in terms of like my experience and the people that I surround myself with, I really do believe that everyone that I work with are extremely intelligent people. And so anything that they do that I would consider crazy or different or unique, the first thing that I I think to myself is, hmm, that's different. I want to learn more about that because I don't think that anyone just does something just to be crazy. I think there's some logic behind it. So first I try to understand their logic and then I try to implement it. And if it works, it works. If it doesn't, then it doesn't.

44:02 Scott Ingram: Oh, good stuff, man. That, that applies very, very broadly right now. So what advice, what advice would you give to somebody that's maybe starting out in a sales career today and particularly if they were going into an SDR type of role?

44:18 Jennifer Linker: Well, I would try to give my… if I were to give my little self-advice in terms of when I first started off working here, I would say don't be a perfectionist. You know, like, you don't have to be perfect in your role, and you don't have to be perfect the moment you enter into it. And try to be yourself. You know, like, I think that there's this weird… this, what do you call it? I can't think of the right word right now, but this, like, tradition where people feel like they have to act like with a Johnny salesperson and be like, hello, it's Jen Linker calling. And it's not like that at all. It's like, be yourself, be who you are. If you're a genuine person, be genuine. If you're a funny person, be funny. You know, if you're quirky, be quirky. Like, just be yourself. And I think that listening to the coworkers on my floor, I really noticed that I've listened to some people where I'm like, that is so that person. And if anyone else tried to sell the way that person sold, they would not be able to get the meeting Because it's just like that's who they are, and I think that that's that's the best advice I can give.

45:23 Scott Ingram: You know what? That's it's interesting that you've identified that. That has been again the sample size is still relatively small as the show is relatively new. I would say that that is the most consistent theme. So talking to people who are at the top of their game, they're not trying to mold themselves to that cheesy. Crazy assumed persona that is the top salesperson, but they're really being the best version of themselves and showing up in whatever that looks like and adding value in the unique ways that they can. And, and that is what sales success really is. The closer you are to you, the more successful you're going to be.

46:06 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, exactly. I think that just being yourself… I mean, once you are yourself, you're going to realize you're going to start to have fun with it because you're going to start to do things that are more like you, you know, like, you know, being creative and doing, doing things that are outside of the box. Um, those all come from your ideas or even hearing other ideas from other people, but it's still you at the end of the day. So, I mean, I think that for me what happened was as soon as I let myself go, as soon as I stopped being a perfectionist and stopped putting that much pressure on myself, I started loving my job more and more and started getting more and more excited to come into every day.

46:43 Scott Ingram: Yeah, awesome. What would you want to know about top sellers or even top SDRs, since I've got a couple more of these interviews, uh, coming up?

46:51 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, I mean, I think I would want to know, to be honest, their, their process in terms of like, do they LinkedIn message, call, and then email, and then do this and this? It's kind of like, what's their secret process that they use? Because I think that that's something that I would love to learn as well and how I think the, the biggest thing is how do you tie that all together? So like how would they tie their, their call to their email, to their LinkedIn message, that kind of thing? I think there's like a kind of an art to doing that and that's something that I'm personally working on right now.

47:27 Scott Ingram: Well, and I think it's really evident in what you described earlier with it's the combination of some of those touches to where if you just send a cold invite without explaining what you're doing, your conversion sucks. But voicemail and explain, hey, this is what I'm going to do. And, you know, this is what this is about. Hey, it sort of works. So what, what is that? I mean, what is the best, most productive cadence look like for you? How long is it? How many touches are there? Are there particular combinations that you found that, that seem to be the most successful?

48:02 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, well, I think that there's a combination there. I think that there's the value that you put in your email. So there are some, you know, verticals where the value that you put in really… well, there are some verticals where there's certain things that you can say that would be more valuable to them than certain… than other things. And so to give you some context into what I'm talking about, I have about 7 verticals that I'm assigned to. So you kind of learn that there are some people that are focusing on loyalty and there are some people that are focusing on customer satisfaction. But fall under like a similar role. So it's kind of like learning like what is, what is that magic word that's going to get them excited? But to answer your question, I'm just looking at my thing right now. So my, my cadence is 14 days long. Oh wait, it's 16 days long. And I think there's about 12 steps in there. So it's all about how you space out your steps. And the key is in the beginning you have more touchpoints earlier on, but as the cadence kind of gets longer and longer and you haven't heard from them, you try to separate it a little bit more so they don't get fully sick of you and they send you a really mean email. But the first day, what I'll do is I'll send a… I'll leave a voicemail on their phone just introducing myself and trying trying to tease them with some form of a fact. Send you an email with a meeting time or something like that. So I'm just kind of a little teaser. And then in the intro, I'll add more context to it and then I'll add some value there. And yeah, so it just kind of goes back and forth. I won't go through the whole thing because I don't think that's very exciting to learn about. But yeah, it's a pretty cool process. But the key is that it's the different types of touchpoints that you get. Um, like some people will respond to you through LinkedIn, some people respond to you through email, some people you get over the phone. So it's all about the combination of the 3 that I think are the winner.

50:12 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. So what happens after, say, that 16-day cadence? Do you just drop them or is… do you pick them up into a ladder cadence? Like, I assume there's not a give up.

50:27 Jennifer Linker: Yeah. So we call it our breakup email where we will say something like, you know, been trying to reach out to you, like, but I haven't heard back from you. I really think that you'll find a conversation valuable because I can share how blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I'll say something like, if, if like something like really strong, like if increasing like member engagement or customer engagement is something that's valuable to you, like, let's just talk for 10 minutes. If not, then, you know, like, let me know and like, I'll follow up with you next quarter. So you kind of just want a response from them either way. It's kind of like, look, like, if you're not interested… if you're interested, that's great, let me know. If you're not interested, that's fine too, just let me know. It's kind of like you want to get a response because if you get a response, then you can… if it's a good response, that's great. If it's not, then you want to be able to challenge that response and be like, look, like, let's talk about your your thought process here. Like, I know that you think that I'm just some average salesperson, but I really do think that what we're trying to offer you is valuable because I read in your annual report that this, or I read an article that your CEO commented in about that. So it's like kind of tying it all together. And then after the breakup email, we have something called marketing nurture. So you put them in marketing nurture and then marketing takes over that and they'll like send them content that we release every month. And after that, you kind of reevaluate the situation after a few months. If you really think that this prospect is too fresh, then you won't reach back out to them. If you think that another try after a few months or after a couple months or something is worth a shot, then do it. And yeah, and if I were you, what I would do is, it depends on the prospect, but what I'm planning on doing is anyone that's responded to me that said no or like whatever, like, oh yeah, reach out to me back in this time. I always use holidays or any type of like special occasion to my advantage. So I sent out like probably over 100 or so emails just wishing people like Happy Thanksgiving. And then, well, because it's Canadian Thanksgiving, but then, you know, like I would send out, I'm going to send out some more emails on Christmas and say, oh, Merry Christmas. Like, want to have a conversation? Like something like that to like have a reason to reach out to them. So it's like kind of one of those things where, okay, like you won't hear from me in a few months, but like if there's someone that you really do think is on like your hit list and you want to reach out to, do those special things by like wishing them Merry Christmas. Or if you can find out their birthday because you're really creepy, then, you know, wish them happy birthday, like that kind of thing.

53:18 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Well, and I like that idea of almost setting your own expectation that, hey, goodbye for now, but you know, we're gonna… I'll re-engage next quarter, you know, recognizing maybe the timing's not right and then following through on that, right? Like, I'm back, you know how this is gonna go.

53:34 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, exactly. Here I am. But yeah, so it's kind of, um, it's kind of, yeah, like you… it's kind of, you have to, to determine what you're gonna do, but I still think that, um, yeah, like reaching out to them whenever, it's kind of, it's kind of nice. Yeah.

53:53 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And yeah, it's, it's not, it's not all about that agenda all the time and you have to take a meeting with me. It's, hey, I recognize you're a human and you're celebrating right now and I hope you're enjoying that.

54:04 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, exactly. Like I, you know, I, for Halloween, I was like emailing an EA and that's another thing that I think a lot of SDRs have struggled with is the gatekeeper, which is usually the EA, executive assistant, which is what I'm referring to. So it's kind of like there's this one EA that I've been trying to get in contact with, this girl that's on my hit list, and I still haven't gone to meeting with her, but we're best friends, me and this EA, because I wished her Happy Halloween and then she wrote to me in Halloween font, and then I wrote back to her in Halloween font, and we just became best friends through there. So it's kind of those fun things, but I know that when the time is right, that EA is going to let me, she's going to open the gates for me and I'm going to be able to take advantage of that.

54:56 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Good insight there. Love that one. So, Jen, who is the most successful salesperson you know personally?

55:02 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, that's a great question. So that would be my dad.

55:06 Scott Ingram: I thought you might go to family since you said you come from a family of sellers.

55:10 Jennifer Linker: Yeah. So my dad, he's super, super successful. He doubled the sales in his organization just from being there for, I think, like less than a decade. So he's like, my dad, I think is like the best salesperson ever. He has like, he doesn't have that Johnny salesman mentality. Like all the things that he talks about are so modern, I guess that you would say now. Like, I think everyone's kind of talking about what I'm saying is like, be yourself and don't like, don't just go after the money, try to build that relationship, like that kind of thing. So my dad is exactly like that too. Like he's, he's the type of person where he always tells me, like, whenever you do your intro call, like, always let them decide if, like, if they want to introduce themselves first or they want you to introduce themselves first because it builds trust, like that kind of thing. And I just like just little, like, tidbits here and there. And anyways, I could go on forever. But yeah, I really do respect my dad as a sales individual.

56:09 Scott Ingram: So that brings up something interesting. I mean, one of the reasons I asked the question about how people got into sales is I think most people didn't get here particularly intentionally, but it seems like you really did. And you, you have, um, I mean, I don't know if in your genes maybe isn't the right word that I want, but is there anything that your dad said or did or shared with you as you were growing up that really had you consider this as an opportunity or planted some seeds? I'm just thinking for, I mean, those of us, I have I have 2 daughters, um, and this is… they're probably interested in other things, but I think more people need to be exposed to this as a, as a real path. I, I think there's so much opportunity in sales, and you can apply it to anything else that you're interested in. I mean, my oldest daughter thinks she wants to be an engineer, but, you know, heck, you can go to work for National Instruments and you can sell to engineers.

57:10 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, exactly.

57:11 Scott Ingram: So, I mean, was there anything like that grown up for you?

57:15 Jennifer Linker: So that's a good question. So yes and no. So I think that going back to when I first sold my first knife when I was like 16 years old, like…

57:27 Scott Ingram: we are talking Cutco here, right? So we're just on the same page.

57:29 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, we're talking, we're talking Cutco. Um, yeah, so, um, it was, it was like, it was a really fun job actually. Like, I really loved it. I actually have my own knife set, so I can, you know, cut my tomatoes really well, which is really exciting. Um, anyways, uh, that's a long… I won't go down that path. But, um, I think that for me it was like, uh, I first started off knowing what I liked and what I didn't like. So what I did like was I liked teaching people. I like… there was a very long part of my childhood where I was like, I want to be a teacher, and I want I want to teach young kids. And I think that especially in Toronto, it's very unlikely that you're going to get a teaching job. There's just such a high amount of unemployed teachers that I didn't really want to go down that path. But I knew that I loved teaching and I knew that I loved helping people. I knew that I loved talking to people. So, it was kind of like, okay, I love all this stuff. And then, when I tried this job because I just needed money. My dad, he kind of listened to me and like sell because it was all at home. And the whole benefit of it is that you can choose your own hours and that it's not like, it's not super regulated. It's kind of like you determine your own success. And my dad was like, wow, Jenn, like you're doing really, really well. And you're doing… and like, I think that it was like, I think that it was like I only worked there for not even that long because I did an exchange in Australia. So the reason why I got this job was because I knew I was going to get hired really quickly and it was my own hours. But I think that I got promoted, like, or I moved up a tier in terms of like, like how much revenue I made, like within like the first like 3 weeks or something like that, or even less than that, like 2 weeks, because I sold so many knives. And that's like usually the average person, it's like at least like over a month or something like that. So, so yeah, so I think that people started recognizing that I was doing really well. So then I started saying like, huh, maybe this would be a good job for me. And then my older sister went into sales and she would talk about how much she loved it. So then I would be like, oh, well, my older sister and I are really similar. Like maybe I would like a job like that. And that's kind of like, that's kind of how I got into that process was just like thinking about what I liked and what I didn't like and thinking about like looking at my family and looking about what they liked about their jobs and realizing that like, that's what I would also like as well.

1:00:02 Scott Ingram: So, yeah, that's really interesting. And it's funny, Cutco has been on my mind and a few organizations like that that I think are honestly really great entry points, right? They have incredible training and you… it's a great way to, pardon the pun here, given Cutco, but it's a great place to truly cut your teeth.

1:00:23 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, exactly.

1:00:24 Scott Ingram: I mean, a lot of the hard, a lot of the hard things, but in a good way and help you really understand what this is and if it's for you or not. So that's, that's really fun stuff. One of these days I'll, I'll find the right person, uh, for that. Apparently the number one Cutco guy, um, we've been introduced. Uh, the challenge is he's basically built a business out of it. It's pretty genius, right? He's all about, you know, gifts and he's turned it into something that I'm like, you are not an individual contributor, but you've got, you've got a whole staff. But, you know, again, that's, it's a path that I think we need to consider So I may, I may have him on anyway because I think that's a very, very interesting path. So last question, and most people struggle with this one, but I have a feeling that you've really prepared and that is I try to sort of boil this all down and give the listener a really tangible takeaway in terms of like, what's a challenge? What, what can they do over the next, say, 7 to 10 days to take something that you've shared in this and, and distill that advice into something that's truly, truly actionable?

1:01:34 Jennifer Linker: Yeah, so I think that my challenge for you as a listener would be to come into work every day with a goal and structure, structure your day around that. So if that's, um, getting a meeting for the day or keeping the meetings on the 'Cause that's also a really important thing as well. You know, doing 100 activities, like whatever that is, do it and structure your day around it. So try to break it down. And my second challenge is also focus on one thing that you want to improve on, whether it's calling, emails, voice Voicemails, whatever that is, and surround yourself with the people and the information that can help you achieve that.

1:02:27 Scott Ingram: Perfect. Jenn, this has been awesome. Thank you so much for your time and sharing all your wisdom with us.

1:02:32 Jennifer Linker: No problem. Happy to do it.

1:02:34 Scott Ingram: So I had a great conversation with Jenn. I hope you took a lot away from all that she shared. And there's more. After we finished recording, Jenn and I had a great conversation about some of the deeper things Uh, that are coming up for SDRs. One of those is what do people actually say in some of those email communications and voicemail communications? And Jenn has been kind enough to share a couple of examples, uh, with me, and we're going to put those into the Sales Success Community. Um, and we also talked a little bit more about the mentoring, mentorship, uh, conversation that started in the episode with Debe Rapson. So both of those topics, uh, are, we're going to be delving, delving deeper into in the Sales Success Community. So if you haven't done it already, go to top1.fm, put your email address in the subscription box there at the top, and on the second day, we will send you an invite to that community where you can find all of those goodies. Thanks again for listening, and we'll talk to you next time. Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast. To be sure you never miss an episode and For an invitation to our Sales Success Community, powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter at top1.fm.