44: Dan Drozewski - Top Sales Recruiter at Sales Recruiting Firm Treeline

0:08 Scott Ingram: You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve. To learn more, visit us at top1.fm. Here's your host, Scott Ingram.

0:24 Scott Ingram: Today on the Sales Success Stories podcast, I'm joined by Dan Drozewski. Dan is the top sales recruiter at the sales recruiting firm, Treeline, outside of Boston. Welcome to the show, Dan.

0:35 Dan Drozewski: Scott, thank you for having me.

0:36 Scott Ingram: My pleasure. So, we're going to do something a little bit differently today. This will basically be a 2-part interview. I'll talk with Dan like I normally do about his own success story as a seller. But when we get done with that, I've got a series of questions for Dan about how we as sales professionals can work more effectively with recruiters like Dan. So, I wouldn't recommend it, but if you want to skip to that portion of the interview, I'll include a timestamp in the show notes available at top1.fm that will tell you where to start, unless I decide to be really mean and break this into 2 parts, in which case that second part would be a bonus episode. But more than likely, we'll put it all together. And before we do that, we'll start like we always do. And Dan, I'll ask you, what are the top 3 things that you believe have allowed you to get to and stay at the top in your role there at Treeline?

1:27 Dan Drozewski: Great question. I would say number one above all else is focus. Right? And I can elaborate a little bit on that. So, you know, in life and here in the office, there's a ton of distractions. We have an awesome culture here at Treeline. There's a lot to be distracted by. So I don't let it affect me. I focus on the task at hand. I am not the type of person that, you know, is in at 7:00 AM and leaves at 7:00 PM. I'm more of a 9 to 5 guy, but you can bet during that, those hours from 9 to 5, I'm 100% focused on the task at hand. And I'm always ready to rock and roll as soon as I come in the office, right? I've got my coffee in hand. I, you know, I open up my calendar and, uh, you know, checking my emails, and I live and die by my calendar. So I, I'm jumping on appointments right away, whether, uh, you know, whether it's for a client, whether it's for a candidate. And, you know, I'm ultra focused from, from step one. And then, um, the other, uh, number 2 I would say is, uh, I think outside the box. I can get a little bit creative. I will kind of question the status quo of, hey, this is, this is the way we do it, this is what's successful. And I always kind of look for ways to make it better. Sometimes I fail, but, you know, sometimes I do good, right? Or I succeed, I should say. And then lastly, I'm ultra, ultra competitive. And I can elaborate on that as well. Actually, this week, I actually had a colleague who actually passed me on the board for about 10 minutes, and I didn't like it. And then from there, Um, you know, I, I, I put more revenue on the board and, uh, I, I stuck my claim as, uh, as number one again. But, uh, it's, it's all good-natured, uh, competition. But, uh, I am very comp… I am very competitive with, with all my, uh, with all my colleagues here.

3:13 Scott Ingram: I love that. So, so one of your colleagues enjoyed 10 whole minutes in the spotlight, huh?

3:17 Dan Drozewski: Yes. Yes. And that's 10 minutes too long from where I am sitting. But, uh, but, um, be that as it may, yes, that I, I am very driven by being competitive. I, I've always, I've always kind of had that mindset.

3:28 Scott Ingram: That's fantastic. Well, and I didn't tell you that I did this, but when I talked with your CEO, when I talked with Dan Fantasia about you, he introduced us. And but before he did that, I asked him from his perspective, what were the top 3 things that made you the best? And it's amazing how well these line up. So what he said was it was, it was your focus, right? You have this great purpose and you know what needs to get done. So that's perfect alignment, one for one. He said work ethic for number 2. And I think this really aligns to your ultra competitive piece because he said, he said, you You know, you're still working after you put the kids to bed. You've got this drive and this ambition and you want to win. And then, and this matches up almost perfectly as well, he described, the word he used was entrepreneurial, but then he said you're creative, you think outside of the box, and you look for ways that are going to make the rest of the team better. You take risks, you try different things. So that's, that's really, really cool to see how well those, those lined up from those 2 different perspectives. And unless of course you cheated and asked him what your top 3 were.

4:31 Dan Drozewski: Nope, not at all. That's interesting. I, he knows, he knows me well. So, uh, um, I, I think that, uh, that those are definitely in line. You know, they're a little bit different on, on, you know, as far as work ethic, and that's all there. I guess I probably worded it a little bit differently, but yeah, I'd say we're, we're pretty much in sync.

4:48 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. Well, now let's contextualize this a bit. Talk just a little bit about your role and about Treeline.

4:54 Dan Drozewski: Okay, so Treeline, we are an executive search firm. We have been around since 2001, so a good, you know, 17 years or so, and with one purpose we're here for, and that's to… we have a strict focus on sales, and we're always looking for, you know, top-tier sales talent for our clients. And that's pretty much the long and short of what we do here. My role here now at this point in time is I am managing a team. Right now I have 2 people under me, and we're looking to add a 3rd now. And I'm also an individual contributor, so I carry a bag, so to speak. I'm responsible for my own number and I'm also responsible for a team number.

5:32 Scott Ingram: Perfect. Yeah. And that was the setup. I told Dan, I'm like, you know, I don't know. I only talk to individual contributor, you know, quota carriers. And he's like, well, you know, he's leading it. He's starting to lead a team. He's building a team, but he's still number 1. So I think that that's great that you were, you were number 1 as a pure-play individual contributor now making that transition and still putting up the numbers. And then your origin story is really interesting. You almost have 2. So why don't we talk about how you got into sales in the first place and then maybe about the transition into recruiting?

6:03 Dan Drozewski: Sure. So I had a long banking career. You know, I started off as, you know, way back about 14, actually about 16 years ago now, as a teller in a bank. And I worked my way through the ranks and, you know, I ended up having my own branch and then I ended up heading up the fraud department of that company. I would say I was bored, to say the least, in that role. You know, I like to talk to people, and I was, you know, sitting behind a desk just really kind of pushing papers, so to speak. And I really wanted something more out of my career and out of my kind of day-to-day activity. And so I actually go way back with our VP here. His name is David DeMello. A little shout out there to him. But we've known each other a long time. And I knew what he did for a living. So I just came to chat with him about not necessarily working here. It was more of what should my next career move be? And organically, you know, Treeline came up and it became about, okay, well, you know, what about, what about Treeline? And as I met more people, as I, as I learned about the culture that's been created here and the fast-paced atmosphere, I said, you know what, I need to give this a shot. This seems very interesting. And I think this is something that I can do. Not coming from a sales background whatsoever, Um, was, was definitely a challenge. And it sounds like that's probably the next portion of what you want to talk about here.

7:25 Scott Ingram: Yeah, for sure. Well, and just that transition in and the follow-up question that I typically ask as we're thinking about that sales career and coming into the sales career is, is what, if anything, you would have done differently to start. And I think your perspective is probably really interesting because just the amount of exposure you have to different sales roles and different styles and things like that. So how do you think about that? What would you have done kind of differently coming in?

7:49 Dan Drozewski: I, you know something, it's funny because on one hand I think, man, I should have done this 10 years ago, um, because I feel like I'm pretty good at it. I like it. It's fast-paced. I enjoy what I do. Um, but on the flip side, I'm a firm believer of, you know, you could… I'm here for a reason. My past is my past and it led me to this point in my career. Um, and I think that, uh, I think to be, to be truthful, if I'm being honest here, I think I got a little bit complacent in my, in my previous role and I really, I just wasn't challenged and I needed to get to somewhere where I, where I needed to be challenged. And I'm not sure I would be as successful as I am now if I did this 10 years ago. So my answer to that is I probably wouldn't have done anything differently because it led me down this path where I am now.

8:33 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. Kind of that belief in things happen for a reason and sometimes not the order you want, but you know, at the end of the day, somebody was telling me, and I heard this too, I can't remember what the source of this is. Somebody will, somebody will ping me and tell me what it was, but it's one of those, it's really hard to be planful, especially in this day and age, like of the steps along your career. Sometimes they, they just sort of go all over the place. It's really not… it might have been Seth Godin… it's oftentimes not until you're done and you look back and you go, oh, that's how the dots connect. Of course, this all, this all makes sense, and I needed that experience to get where I am, right? I needed to build a particular skill set or mindset or something to be able to kind of put up the results that you're putting up.

9:14 Dan Drozewski: Exactly. Yeah, I would agree with that.

9:16 Scott Ingram: So speaking of results, quantify that for us. What, what does it take to be number 1 at Treeline?

9:20 Dan Drozewski: Okay. You want, you want to hear about revenue? That's, that's, that's in my name here. Is that, is that more along the lines that you're asking?

9:26 Scott Ingram: Wait. Yep. Let's talk the numbers.

9:28 Dan Drozewski: Okay. So, uh, as far as where I should be, as far as my quota, um, I should be at, uh, about $91,500 for the year. I am right now, I am at, uh, $174,000 and change. Um, so that puts me almost 200% to my goal here, if that quantifies it enough for you.

9:48 Scott Ingram: Excellent. And so that is basically what, the first 4 months of the year-ish?

9:54 Dan Drozewski: Yep. That is… well, I'm counting, so I should be at $91,500, or it's really $91,665 if I'm being exact. That counts May, actually.

10:02 Scott Ingram: Okay. And what about last year? So we can kind of take a full year perspective.

10:06 Dan Drozewski: Last year I was, I was at $258,000 and change in revenue. So I'm trending towards definitely eclipsing that for sure.

10:15 Scott Ingram: Fantastic. That's awesome. And, you know, one of the things that I've, I've started to do, um, that I should have done more often is, you know, we call the show Sales Success Stories, but a lot of times we don't talk about individual stories about individual sales. Is, is there a particular, uh, placement, um, that you're super proud of? Or, or maybe it was bringing on a new client and a new opportunity that, uh, that you just love?

10:40 Dan Drozewski: A particular placement? Yeah. You know what? I, I actually had, um, it was probably when I first started back in 2016 here. Um, I'm gonna say it was probably one of my first handful of placements. And the reason why I was proud of that one, and it sticks out to me to this day, is when I first sent this individual to the, to the job, they said they didn't wanna talk to them. The, the background was off spec and they just didn't see anything jumping out to them. And I pushed on them. To speak with this individual. And I said, you know, listen, it's, it's a phone call. I, I see a lot of… I met this individual, I see a lot of characteristics that I think he could be successful with your organization. And, um, you know, they, they finally said they trusted me and they said, okay, uh, let's, let's talk to him. And, you know, a month later after going through the process, they ended up hiring him. And it showed me, you know, at the end of the day, um, how, how this thing all works, right? I mean, if I, if I had just took the no, then I probably wouldn't be sitting here today because that kind of shaped my mentality here to kind of amp it up, get a little bit more aggressive, get creative, push for what I believe in. And at the end of the day, I think it shows positive results.

11:52 Scott Ingram: That's a good one. Is there any follow-up to that story? Have you been in touch with that candidate or that company to know how that worked out?

11:58 Dan Drozewski: Yeah, he's still there. He's still thriving. He's still doing very well there. I haven't particularly spoken to him. We have a hands-off approach once we've placed somebody to to a client, but I do keep up with him on LinkedIn and how he's doing. And yeah, he's still at that organization now and doing very well.

12:16 Scott Ingram: Fantastic. So from an accomplishment perspective, what are you most proud of?

12:20 Dan Drozewski: Most proud of? I would say this year, actually. I actually broke the monthly record for revenue booked in one month, which I'm very proud of that. That's a tough thing to do. And that would definitely be my greatest accomplishment since I've been here, I would say.

12:40 Scott Ingram: Fantastic. Fantastic. And what's interesting about that is you're doing that while you're building a team. Give us some perspective on, on that and how that transition has been from, you know, pure individual contributor to now kind of a team lead type of role.

12:53 Dan Drozewski: Yeah, it can be tough, right? Because when you're an individual contributor, I only have to worry about me and my calendar. Now when I have my, uh, my reps that are underneath me, uh, they're new, so they're going to need my help. So they are pulling me in different directions along with, uh, already being pulled out in different directions. You know, whether it's from my candidates or my clients or, or my boss, right? Um, with their expectations. So, you know, it can, it can be, my bandwidth is limited, but I like it. I really do. It's a challenge. It's just another, another challenge. I am somebody who likes to, uh, I like to challenge myself. And once I kind of conquer one thing, I want the next challenge. What's, what's next? Right. So right now it's, it's building out my team and my, my next goal is to, uh, to have the number one team this year, cause there are 2 other managers here and I compete with them, so to speak. And, um, you know, I want to, I want to win that. I want to win that race, so to speak.

13:42 Scott Ingram: Of course, of course. So, I mean, along the lines of challenges, what's been the biggest challenge that you've had to overcome?

13:50 Dan Drozewski: I'd say managing my bandwidth, right? I need to make sure that… I mean, so the 2 reps that I have underneath me now, they're fairly new, right? So they need some handholding, so to speak. And, you know, I need to be listening on their calls or helping them with closing deals or finding the right talent or, you know, all the above. And I need to manage that along along with keeping my, my eye on my book of business as well, right? Um, so that's, that's where, uh, you know, focus is huge. I need to be focused on the task at hand, whether it's for me, whether it's for my rep. But I would say on a daily basis, juggling, you know, my calendar and their calendars and making sure I'm hitting on all points, that's been the biggest obstacle. But I think I'm doing pretty good with it.

14:33 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So let me talk about how you are doing it. How are you structuring a typical day? And I like to start really early with this in terms of before you even get into the office. What is, what does that morning routine look like? You hit the alarm at what time, and then what happens?

14:45 Dan Drozewski: Typically I'm up around 5:30 or 6:00, and what happens from there is I have 2 little, 2 little girls at home. I have a 5-year-old and a 1-and-a-half-year-old, and they're usually jumping all over me at that point looking for daddy to play. So, and I like that. I need that before I come in because it gives me just some clarity. And they're, they're the reason why I'm doing this. They are what motivate me along with my wife at home. They are my motivation. They are what make me stay so focused during the day and not get distracted. So from there, I'll always, you know, they'll be jumping all over me looking to play. I'll do that as I drink a cup of coffee. You know, I will literally whatever, whatever they're looking to do that morning. This morning, candidly, they wanted to play with Play-Doh, right? So I did that. I don't have the same routine every day from that perspective. It's more of what they're looking to do. But I can tell you that if I'm generalizing, I give them a good half an hour, 45 minutes of my time before I start to get ready for work. And that kind of centers me for the day. That's kind of my yoga, right?

15:45 Scott Ingram: It gets me mentally stable.

15:47 Dan Drozewski: To, to just, just makes me remember what I'm fighting for every day.

15:50 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. And then what happens after Daddy Playtime?

15:54 Dan Drozewski: Daddy Playtime, you know, jump in the shower, get dressed, get going, get out the door, and then, you know, off to my… I have about a 20-minute commute to work, which is not bad. And then I'm typically listening to sports talk on the way in every day. And that's, that's, that's my routine. And funny enough, I usually try to… and this is a weird little quirk of mine when I get to the office here. I try to park in the same parking space. So that's my superstition.

16:20 Scott Ingram: It must, it must be a good spot.

16:22 Dan Drozewski: It's an excellent spot.

16:24 Scott Ingram: So now you said, I mean, now the focus kicks in, right? Like 9 to 5, obviously that's head down so you can, you can crank out a day and get back to the family. How do you structure that? And is there kind of variation by day of week or anything like that?

16:39 Dan Drozewski: There is. So Mondays is a little bit different because we have a company-wide meeting at 9:00 AM, 9 to 10. Uh, we sit around, we talk about forecasts. Uh, we, you know, we talk about our focus for the week, um, on certain clients. And then, um, from there, it's, it's, it, I think every day is different. You know, it depends on if, uh, you know, we've got a new client that we need to have a launch call for, or, you know, if I have an interview with a candidate or I may be prepping a candidate for a job interview for the next day. There are so many other variables that go along with it, or, or potentially, you know, my 2 reps might need me for all of the above. They might need some help on a prep. Or they might need some help on, hey, what should I be focusing on today? Uh, I would say every day is different for sure.

17:24 Scott Ingram: And how are you defining what the, what the primary focus is for, for that day or for that week?

17:31 Dan Drozewski: Um, it really is, um, it comes down to priority, right? If I've got somebody in final stages in a, in an organization through the interview process, you know, I'm looking to, they're my top priority. You know, I need to close them down. I need to, do they need to be prepped? Uh, or, you know, do they have an offer letter sitting in their hand or, You know, do I need to manage that process for them when they're fielding other offers from other opportunities? So first and foremost, that's the top priority, right? The closest to final stages. And then from there, you kind of go, you work backwards, right? You know, do my, do any of my reps have people in final stages? Do I need to help them with that? You know, in my, I'm also an account manager as well. On top of all we do, we also run our own accounts, right? So I've got a handful of accounts to make sure that those clients are fulfilled and you know, candidates are all set for their interviews and whatnot. Um, and then from there, um, you just work back. Like I said, uh, is it, uh, do I need to go find new talent for these new roles that we have? Um, and then do I need to help my reps find the talent? Same thing, right? On and on it goes, uh, from there.

18:36 Scott Ingram: Awesome. And then I should have asked this earlier. You said that you've done about $178,000 year to date. How many placements is that?

18:44 Dan Drozewski: Our average deal size is probably $12,500. Um, so I'm going to say it's probably 12 to 13 placements, give or take.

18:54 Scott Ingram: Okay. So you're, you're doing 3 or 4 a month kind of, uh, when you're killing it.

19:00 Dan Drozewski: Yep. It depends. Yeah. I would say anywhere from, sometimes you get a big one, right? It could do 1 a month, um, or 2 a month, but yeah, I would say anywhere from, from, from 2 to 4.

19:09 Scott Ingram: Okay.

19:09 Dan Drozewski: Would be accurate.

19:10 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Excellent. And then coming back to the focus thing, right? So once you've determined that priority, what are you doing? What have you figured out to just keep all of the distraction at bay? How do you do that?

19:22 Dan Drozewski: It goes… it really just goes back to what motivates me. And that's, you know, the first thing I do when I open up my eyes in the morning. And that's, that's my, my kids, right? So I make sure that I have my priorities in check. For, you know, what I'm supposed to be able to do for the day. I have a to-do list that I write out before I leave most days. So I know exactly when I come in in the morning, I know what next day is, what my top priority is, you know, is it, is it Joe Smith that's got a final the next day, um, that I need to make sure that he's, he's prepared for, or is it, uh, does, does one of my colleagues have a final on one of my, one of my accounts and I need to get feedback or, um, whatever the case may be, I've got a, I've got a call to action sitting on my desk every morning.

20:03 Scott Ingram: Nice. Nice. Any other habits or routines that are really central to your success in the way you operate?

20:10 Dan Drozewski: Consistency, I would say. I am consistent in my methods, my methodology, which, you know, it's… I've kind of established a game plan that I've been using for the last year and a half, I would say, here that I've actually turned other colleagues onto that I do. And I'm just consistent in my belief of this works. But on the flip side, you know, you can't, you can't just do one thing to be successful. You need to, you need to have, you need to get, well, I'll give you an example. You need to source candidates from, from all different areas, right? You can't just get them from, from one function or one job site or one way, right? You need to diversify, so to speak. And if I, I'm pretty good at self-evaluating. If I feel like my methods are getting stagnant, I'll take a, I'll take a pretty good inventory and say, all right, I need to switch this up because obviously the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting the same result. Well, if I'm banging my head against the wall and I'm not getting the result, I'm going to switch it up. It might not be… it might be a slight switch, it might not be a complete 180, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna do some subtle switch just to see and gauge my results.

21:21 Scott Ingram: Nice. And you mentioned that you've got a game plan, you've got a methodology. Walk us through that. What, what is that?

21:27 Dan Drozewski: Um, so I can generalize. Uh, so, you know, I, I'm, I'm a firm believer of social media of my methodology on, you know, basically to put the attention on Treeline and put the attention on me. I want to be the central focus of my network. I want them reaching out to me. I want them to know that if they're in a job or if they're having a tough time in what they're doing, or if they're looking to, you know, move up in the ranks in their job and their current role just isn't cutting it, I want them to know that I am the person that they should reach out to. And I keep myself pretty relevant in my network and my LinkedIn feed, whether it's sharing content, whether it's putting myself out there. I just want them to know that I am, I am the guy that they should be reaching out to. So I'm pretty consistent with that. Um, I, I've been a firm believer of, of social media, and, and I think it works for sure.

22:15 Scott Ingram: Well, and along those lines, is there a particular geographic focus that you have, or specific industries, or in any way that you're trying to kind of tune that?

22:24 Dan Drozewski: We're national. You know, 80% of our business does come from the Boston area, but we have… and we've really picked up our national presence, I would say. So it really just depends on what accounts that I'm focusing on. You know, I don't want to focus on too many accounts at once that we have. When I say accounts, I mean clients. You know, I'm not gonna work on 8 clients at once. I usually pick 2 or 3. I'll focus on them for a day or 2, and I will try to, you know, find top-tier candidates for these, for these, for these companies. And, you know, as far as… yeah, I would say I would say 80% does come from the Boston area, but then out of the state is probably another 20%. That's, that's kind of the method there.

23:03 Scott Ingram: Got it. And then, so you talked about social is a big piece. What else? What else kind of fits into that game plan and that approach?

23:11 Dan Drozewski: I just keep everything consistent. I make sure that I make myself available. I've actually gotten a lot of comments, say if somebody reaches out to me on LinkedIn, I make sure that I am responding to everybody, whether it's to set up a call or whether it's to give them feedback on if they're a fit on a role. A lot of people comment and say, hey, listen, I love the quick response here. You know, a lot of times I will inbox a recruiter or an HR person or whatever, whoever it is, and I won't get a response, you know, if they're not a fit or whatever. I wanna… it's my brand. That's how I look at it, right? Not only is it Treeline, but it's me. And I want, I want to put a positive spin and I want to shed that in a positive light. So nice.

23:57 Scott Ingram: Now, is that literally everybody that reaches out? Because one of the things I really struggle with, and maybe we'll, we'll talk about what I do and what you do and how that compares and contrasts. I get so many, um, just random LinkedIn connection requests. And then a lot of times I haven't looked at my profile. It's the generic, uh, invite. And I basically, I just ignore those, right? If you can't take the time to personalize that, I'm not, I'm not doing that. Are these specific outreaches or even just, you know, a guy like me reaches out to connect with you and I'm lazy and I don't personalize that response. Are you still communicating with me in some way, shape, or form?

24:31 Dan Drozewski: I am, but it's more so my internal network, the people that I'm already connected to, they will send me a message of, hey, you know, I'm interested in this role that I saw you post, or, you know, I'm looking for a new role or whatever the case may be on that. I am always trying to be, you know, very receptive to them and try to get back to them in a timely fashion. Obviously, you know, If I'm back to back to back, have a packed day, you know, a day might go by, but I do take some time at night to be able to respond to people as needed, whether it's to set up calls that I couldn't do during the day or give them feedback if they're asking me. I've actually had people, actually somebody recently asked me what's the best way to, he wanted to move up in the ranks. He was a business development representative, which is more of an entry-level role in a software company. And he said he wants to get to a closing role, which would be an account executive role. And his current role just wasn't cutting it. He didn't see that path. So he had asked me some advice from that effect, and I gave it to him, you know, and we… and then we ended up lining up a call where I could elaborate a little bit more. But he was very, very thankful that I just had that interaction with him, not even knowing him, not really having any context to it. He just kind of reached out to me and asked my advice, in which I obliged and gave to him.

25:42 Scott Ingram: And what was that? I mean, that comes up a lot on the show, right? I've interviewed quite a number of SDRs, some of them who've moved up, some of them have not intentionally. What do you recommend to somebody that's in one of those more entry-level type of roles and wants to move up to an AE type of role?

25:58 Dan Drozewski: So the number one thing in my opinion is you typically are going to do that internally, right? That is, that's the number one way to do it. If you're with a company that, that, you know, it's not cutting it and you don't see that path anytime soon, then my recommendation is, and a lot of people are looking to make that jump immediately. It's a tough jump to do if you're in an organization and you're going to leave to try to make that transition. It's not impossible. I've seen it happen. It's just not as common. Uh, your best bet is to do your research on a company that promotes internal growth. I mean, we have, we have plenty of clients that I can think of where, you know, you could, you could be an SDR for 6 months and then they're gonna bump you up to the next level, uh, to an account executive or at least a team lead or something. Uh, companies typically, uh, they either, they, they have 2 ways. They either promote from within or they, they go from outside to get what they want, right? Um, but you can do some research. You can do it on LinkedIn. Um, you can check LinkedIn profiles. If you get a company and you see you know, 5 or 10 people with, you know, a profile of, you know, business development rep for 6 months and then an account executive for a year and a half and then team lead for another year and you start to see multiple profiles like that, well, a light bulb should go off in your head and say, well, these guys like to promote from within. They like to groom their own talent. And, you know, this is probably a good spot for me to land, right? And I try to make that, that, that speech to them to say, hey, listen, And for the time being, it might be worth making a lateral move. Leave your organization right now that does not promote that internal growth and join an organization that does. It could be, uh, it could be, it could be a huge step in the right direction.

27:33 Scott Ingram: Got it. And what sort of expectations should they have around what that timing is, or is that another just function of seeing what, what their typical kind of trajectory is and how fast other people have moved up?

27:44 Dan Drozewski: Yeah, I don't think, yeah, I mean, I don't think there's one blanketed answer for that. It really depends on the individual, depends on the company. Um, you know, you're in that particular role, if we're talking about a business development role, that's not a role that, you know, if you're going to be moving up through the ranks, you're not going to be doing that for 3 or 5 years. You know, you're probably going to be doing that for, you know, a year, year and a half. Some companies, you know, quicker than that, um, would be the case. But I would, I would say, you know, the average would probably be, you know, anywhere from 8 to 18 months is probably what you're probably looking at.

28:15 Scott Ingram: Perfect. Perfect. Yeah. I think there's, there's so many questions about this. It was one of the most popular sessions we did at the Sales Success Summit. Uh, we put together kind of a sales career panel. And, you know, I'm again not quite sure of the timing of all of this in terms of when we'll be releasing this episode and when that video will become available. But that was, that was really, really significant. And one of the big takeaways from that is you just have to do a lot of due diligence, right? You've got to think really hard about getting into the right situation, right? It's not take the first thing that looks good and, you know, writes a job offer for you, right? It's, it's being thoughtful and mindful about the organization, who you… the leadership, the comp… so many different things, right? And it's really hard to do that after the fact. You know, once, once you're in there, you're kind of stuck.

29:02 Dan Drozewski: Yep. You absolutely need to do your research. You need to do your due diligence, just like you said. And that kind of goes back to what I was saying. However you do your research, whether it's, you know, whether it can be Glassdoor, some people live and die by that. Or like I said, if you're doing some research on a company, I like to see the proof in the pudding. If a company tells me that they promote from within, I'm looking at LinkedIn profiles because I want to see it. You know, that doesn't get any more accurate than that because you can see the trajectory and the growth in those individuals.

29:31 Scott Ingram: Absolutely. Great, great, great suggestion. Talk about the, the tools and the apps. I mean, what does your toolkit look like?

29:37 Dan Drozewski: Um, I'm actually pretty basic from that perspective. Um, I, I, I… LinkedIn is a huge, um, part of my business. That's an app that I would say I live and die by if you're asking me to name one.

29:48 Scott Ingram: Well, I'm asking you to name 2 to 3.

29:50 Dan Drozewski: 2 to 3 here. Okay, so, so LinkedIn for Uh, you know, Indeed, um, as well. And then, um, uh, Facebook or Twitter. Um, I've dabbled in for it, um, if we're talking for work purposes. Um, you know, Twitter, Twitter can be pretty good for that as well. Um, but I'd say the majority of my success does come from LinkedIn. That's, that's definitely, uh, the number one.

30:15 Scott Ingram: That makes a lot of sense. And what percentage of your time are you on the phone talking with folks?

30:20 Dan Drozewski: I would say probably 50 to 60% of my day is talking on the phone, at least.

30:26 Scott Ingram: Got it. Perfect. Is there a particular sales philosophy or approach that you subscribe to?

30:34 Dan Drozewski: I would say no to that. No, there's no sales philosophy. Uh, I just believe in rolling up your sleeves, hard work, determination, resilience. Um, it's pretty, it's pretty basic, my, my beliefs from that, but I don't subscribe to a certain, uh, tried and true formula. It's more of my own making. I just, like I said, I roll up my sleeves, I get it done, and, you know, when I get knocked down, I just, I keep getting back up. That's my philosophy.

31:00 Scott Ingram: Got it. So within that philosophy, within your philosophy, is there a particular way that you would describe your style in deploying that?

31:08 Dan Drozewski: I'd say there's a, there's a mix of aggressive when needed, you know, as far as urgency between that and I'm super urgent, I'm super competitive. And I, you know, I can… I think with… if we're talking about, you know, candidates and clients, I think a pretty, pretty good relationship builder with them. And, you know, I like to build trust on both ends of the… on both ends of the desk, right? Because, you know, I want… I think Treeline, for us, our whole philosophy is we've… I'd say we are very karma-centric. So that's kind of my That's how I function. So I like to build good relationships. I like to build trust and that's the key to my success right there.

31:54 Scott Ingram: Did you say you're karma-centric?

31:57 Dan Drozewski: Karma-centric. That's my own kind of word there. I don't even know if that's a real word, but I believe in doing the right thing. That's basically what I'm saying. Uh, always doing right by the candidate, always doing right by the client.

32:07 Scott Ingram: Love it. Love it. It's probably not its own word, but if you, if it's 2 words, I think that's legit.

32:11 Dan Drozewski: Yeah.

32:13 Scott Ingram: Perfect. So we've definitely talked a lot about your motivation. I think that is really, really clear. I wonder if there is something you believe that the average sales professional or the, the average sales recruiter would think is crazy.

32:29 Dan Drozewski: Something that I think is crazy as far as the industry?

32:33 Scott Ingram: It could be anything. It could be something you do that they would think is nuts. It could be something that, that you think about that that they would think is nuts? Anything along those lines?

32:42 Dan Drozewski: I mean, I'm not sure if they would think this is crazy, but I think what we do is, I don't think there is more of a sales role than what we do, 'cause we are, you know, we have to sell from all angles, whether it's internally here, a candidate to a colleague, we have to kind of pitch their background and get their foot in the door, or it's I need to sell that candidate to the client, like I told you my story of, how my client, one of my clients, said no to a candidate and didn't even want to speak to him and ended up hiring him a month later. I view what we do, there's no more down-and-dirty kind of sales role than what we do on a daily basis, and I'm not sure everybody views it that way. You tell me.

33:27 Scott Ingram: Yeah, well, I think you're certainly right, probably even more so on the candidate side, right? Because what you're selling them on is changing basically the biggest component of their life, right?

33:37 Dan Drozewski: Yeah. I mean, more opportunity, right? We, I mean, and we always want to make sure that if we're disrupting these individuals in their, in their current positions, that we're going to add value to their, to their career, to their resume, you know, whether it's a step up or whether it's more money or whatever, though, everybody has their own motivations. Sometimes it's, uh, you know, they want better work-life balance. So, hey, maybe I've got this remote role where you can be home a little bit more with the kids or the wife or whatever your motivation is. I just want to add value. To your, to your, whether it's your resume, whether it's your career, your life, what may have you. So yeah, I think, I think that I'm not sure everybody views what we do here in that manner.

34:19 Scott Ingram: Well, you were kind of opening the door to this earlier. I mean, is there something about your industry that, you know, just you think isn't quite right?

34:28 Dan Drozewski: I think the… I would say our industry can be viewed negatively, in my opinion. Um, and, you know, I would, I would like, I would like for people to realize that not every recruiting firm or not every recruiter, um, is… should be viewed in a negative light. Like I, like I mentioned before, you know, for us, uh, you know, one of our core values here is, you know, you, you, you operate with integrity, right? And that is… and we do that on both sides, whether it's with a candidate, whether it's with a client. Um, I'll bring back, you know, my words of karma-centric. That's how we, that's how we are. We're always going to do the right thing. Um, even if it, at the end of the day, sometimes doesn't get us paid, we're gonna, we're gonna do the right thing always because it's about the long-term benefit and the long-term relationship. So, um, that would be my answer there.

35:17 Scott Ingram: Love it. Yeah. Love, love that. And, you know, I come from an organization that has a very, very similar, uh, philosophy. And I think that Karma-centric is such a great description, right? Well, like when you, when you do the right thing by your clients, yeah, maybe you lose in the, in the short term, but I think you can never lose in the, in the long run with that type of an approach, right? You'll be able to work with those people again, or they'll give you the benefit of the doubt the next time when something goes, goes screwy that's not in your control. You know, those, those types of things. So that's really great stuff. Is… have there been decisions you've made or lessons you've learned along the way that have been really formative to getting you where you are today?

35:58 Dan Drozewski: So I, um, I'm a huge proponent of, uh, of working out and eating right and self-discipline. That all kind of rolls up into one. And I apply that to life. I apply that to work. I apply that to my, my home life. Um, I'm very disciplined. Um, and I've, I've just carried that over. There are lessons that I've learned in the gym. Um, and I know it might sound silly to some, But it's just all… and whatever, what's more, the whole lesson for me is whatever you believe in, it doesn't need to be the gym or whatever it is, but it's always doing what needs to be done at the moment that it needs to be done. And sometimes you need to not worry about the short term so much and the instant gratification because you just need to work hard and the long-term benefits will be there. That's a huge lesson that I've learned. That very young age.

36:50 Scott Ingram: Nice, nice. So, and I think that… I'm sure that comes back to it. It's just sort of the consistency, right? You just got to do the reps. You're not going to see a result 5 minutes from now. It's, it's going to be more… it's because I'm doing these reps this many times a week, months from now this is all going to add up and I'm going to see the results.

37:05 Dan Drozewski: Absolutely. And I, and I apply that to every aspect of my life.

37:08 Scott Ingram: Nice. So what, what is that… what is the workout routine and, and what are you eating? What does that look like?

37:14 Dan Drozewski: So, uh, as far as the workout routine, um, you know, you typically split up the body parts parts. Um, I do, you know, back and bis, chest and tris, legs and shoulders together. 3 different workouts there individually. And as far as the eating, that usually shifts, depends upon the season. Usually around this time I try to go a little bit low carb, um, and, um, way more high protein. A lot of chicken, a lot of steak, uh, probably some protein shakes involved in there, uh, more raw vegetables. Um, but in the wintertime, you know, I'm a little bit more relaxed about it. Um, you know, I'll work in the carbs again and, and I'll probably indulge bit more in, you know, pizza or fast food or go out to eat or whatnot. Um, really just depends on the time of the year. But, uh, at the end of the day, it's, it's, it's one common goal. I just, I just try to be healthy as much as I can. Um, and I, like I said, those, those lessons that I've learned in, um, you know, not always needing that instant gratification and kind of waiting for the results, um, you know, I'll, I'll, I use that here as well. Nice.

38:13 Scott Ingram: And, and, and how many days a week are, are you in the gym typically?

38:15 Dan Drozewski: Uh, I would say 3. Uh, it doesn't sound like a lot, but I, I'm, I, I think that, uh, Uh, you know, I'm 38, so, uh, I can't be in the gym 7 days a week. It's just not conducive to my life at this point with 2 kids and working full-time. But, uh, I, I get it done when I'm there. I'm pretty intense when I work out.

38:33 Scott Ingram: Nice, love that. Well, I… and I ask everybody these questions, but I'm even more interested in, in your answers, answers just given your perspective. So I typically ask what advice you would give to somebody that's just starting out in a sales career Be ready to be resilient.

38:49 Dan Drozewski: Be ready to get knocked down. I liken it to sports, right? You know, if you… let's talk baseball for a second, right? If you strike out in the first inning and you get your next at-bat, you're in the third or fourth inning. If you're thinking about that strikeout or that no that you got in sales, then, you know, you're not gonna get that yes or the home run, right? You need to be resilient. That is the number one thing. I can attest to that because I didn't… I did not come from a sales background. I came from a banking background and, you know, I learned really quick. I learned very quickly that you're going to hear a lot of nos. You're going to have, you know, deals, you know, at the goal line and, and they go awry at the last minute for whatever reason. Um, I learned that very quickly and it just all goes back to the, to the discipline and just put your head down and keep plugging away.

39:35 Scott Ingram: So how did you make that transition? Right. What, how do you think through having spent the majority of your career at this point in non-sales roles, make that transition to sales? And obviously you, been very successful. So whatever it is you're doing, I think there's probably some stuff we can learn from that.

39:51 Dan Drozewski: As far as the transition from the banking world to this industry, I took a lot of licks at the beginning, but my mindset was, you know, if I put my mind to it, I can do it. I have the discipline and the lessons that I've learned, like I said before, in the gym, and I applied it here. I was a sponge for the first, you know, 6 months. I mean, I'm usually… and if you ask my wife this, I'm pretty outspoken outside of here. I've always got an opinion. She would probably say that I always think I'm right and I always think I know the right answer, but here, 2 ears and one mouth. I shut my mouth. I listened. I was a sponge, and I took little bits and pieces from everyone. I really just looked and took inventory around myself, around the company here. I watched as people went through good times and when they went through bad times, and I kind of made the assessment on on, all right, how did this person handle this when this happened? Or how did this person handle that when that happened? What would I have done differently there? And I really just, I really was a sponge at the very beginning. And that is, that's how I made the transition. You know, I won't say that at the beginning I wasn't, I didn't have a lot of disappointment, right? When I'm right there with a deal, so to speak, and it goes sideways. Is that disappointing? Yes, right? But if I, like I said, it's almost like baseball. If I'm thinking about that strikeout, out, um, and I've always, I've always been into sports, so I've got that mindset, um, then I'm not going to be successful.

41:21 Scott Ingram: Yeah, almost that, uh, I've never done this, but I've talked to people that have, that have, you know, driven high-performance cars on a, on a racetrack kind of thing, and it's, it's that thing where the car goes where you look. So don't look at the wall, right? Right.

41:35 Dan Drozewski: Yep.

41:36 Scott Ingram: Yep. Sounds like the same thing. So on the flip side, what advice would you give to somebody that is further into their career, right? They're established, they know what they're doing from a sales perspective, maybe they're doing doing okay, but they're not at the top, they're, they're not crushing it. What advice do you have for them?

41:51 Dan Drozewski: Well, a couple things. One is figure out who is the top rep, sit down with them, and figure out what they're doing differently, right? Because you can be inside your own bubble, and I think we've all been there from time to time. You've got your own set ways. I think it's great to have a fresh perspective. Hey, what are you doing to be successful, right? I've had people call me aside here and say, hey, you know, what are you doing differently? And I'll show them, and I'll show them what I believe in. And, you know, even for them, I'll ask them, you know, if somebody's on a… if somebody is doing well, I will ask them, hey, what are you doing differently? That's number one. Find the top person and figure out what they're doing. And then the other thing is, you know, like I said, I think I mentioned this before, if you're constantly doing the same thing and you're getting the same result and you don't like that result, why would you keep doing it? You need to change it up. If you've been doing the same thing for 10 years and, you know, you're in the middle of the pack and you want to be at the top of the pack, you need to make some changes, right? It's, again, I go back to the gym with it. If you're not seeing the results in the gym that you want, you want, you're doing something wrong, whether it's your diet. Maybe you're not in the gym enough. Maybe you're in the gym too much. Maybe you're, maybe you need to get out of there and, uh, you know, only go 3 or 4 days a week versus the 7. Your, your muscles need to recuperate. That's when you grow, right? That's when you start seeing your results, when you're resting. Um, so that would be, that, that's what I would say to that.

43:08 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So I think in so many ways that is the perfect validation for, I mean, it's why I do the show, right? Let's, let's learn from the best of the best what they're doing. It's why we're having this conversation. When you're in the other shoes though, what, what are the questions that you're asking? What do you want to know of the top performers that you're looking to learn from?

43:27 Dan Drozewski: Yeah, I mean, I like to figure out their process as well. Kind of the same questions that you were asking me. What's their routine? What do they believe in? What methodology do they subscribe to? You know, what types of activity are they running? Do they know their metrics? What made them successful? 'Cause I can tell you every single person in here has their own metric, right? A lot of people run a lot of activity. They need that to be successful here. Other people run thinner activity because they can be a little bit more strategic and they feel much more confident in their ability. I think the biggest thing I try to figure out from people is a lot of the questions you're asking me here, to be honest with you, is, you know, what's your methodology? What do you subscribe to? You know, how'd you get there? You know, are you making 100 calls a day or are you more strategic and you're doing 20 calls a day? How do you do it? And I think everyone's different in that aspect. But if I can pick up a, you know, a tip or two from any reps here, whether it's somebody new or somebody that's been in the industry 15 years, you can bet that I'm gonna make note of it for sure.

44:26 Scott Ingram: Yeah. What is the metric for you? What do you measure?

44:29 Dan Drozewski: So we have a certain metric in mind that, you know, you want to be shaking hands and meeting, you know, 10 candidates per week, right? Which sounds actually kind of low when you talk about it, but once you get going, it does flow. And that's a good metric to have. I hover around that. I would say I might be slightly lower than that now that I've got a few years under my belt here. I am a little bit more strategic with that. Um, I'm probably around the 7 or 8, um, quality, quality people that I want to meet. Um, so I would say I probably run a little bit thinner pipeline or a thinner metric than the average person here, but, um, I'm just a little bit more strategic in how I do it.

45:08 Scott Ingram: Got it. And, you know, I often ask who the most successful salesperson you know is, but in your case, I mean, it's still the, it's basically the same question, but I wonder about that sort of amongst the, amongst the candidates you've talked to. I mean, who, who have you gotten on the phone with? You're like, oh my God, like, this is the guy.

45:27 Dan Drozewski: Actually, it was recently. We actually, uh, it was 2 weeks ago. We launched a VP role here. And so obviously I was, I was talking to some high-level players and I talked to, uh, this, this particular, uh, individual who was just an awesome guy. You wouldn't, you wouldn't, I don't know. Sometimes you think that they may have big egos when they're making a ton of money. Um, you know, these, these high-level VPs, this guy, this particular candidate was very down to earth. You know, we were just shooting the breeze. I felt like I was talking to one of my friends. And, you know, we start talking about money and we get to that. And for the past, you know, 3 or 4 years, he's made over $1 million. And he built out sales organizations and he built out channel programs and he built… he was easily the most successful and the most impressive candidate that I have had the pleasure of meeting. It was an interesting conversation for sure.

46:14 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Now what about on the individual contributor side of things?

46:18 Dan Drozewski: On the individual contributor side of things, I would say that probably, probably happened when I first started. I think I shook hands with an individual that he didn't want to get into leadership, actually. He felt that he can make more money as a rep, and that was his logic. Because I remember asking him, you know, man, you've been, you've been killing it for, you know, 10 or 15 years. You know, the next logical step, so to speak, stereotypically, would be, hey, become a leader and start teaching this, right? And get a team under you. And he was a firm believer that he would make, at least in the end, he was in the software world. So he felt like, uh, in the company that he was in, he felt he was going to make a lot more money, um, as an individual contributor because he can control his own destiny, so to speak. Um, but he was, uh, you know, he was, he was a high-level player, uh, as well as far as the individual contributor and super impressive.

47:04 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And that's, that really frames up sort of the rest of the conversation that we had in that sales career panel. I mean, it was kind of two-pronged, right? One was that decision point between, cause this show is really designed for, I mean, there's many sales leaders that listen to it, but it's really designed for the individual contributor, quota-carrying, uh, sales professional. And but that, that decision comes up oftentimes frequently, right? Where, well, do I stay on this path and, and be what I call an intentional individual contributor where there's often a lot of money, particularly in software and certain industries? Or do you make that transition into leadership? So that was, that was kind of the first question. And the second question was along the lines of, okay, once you've made that choice, you know, how do you best position yourself for either of those paths. So what I would suggest to folks that are listening is get on the mailing list. There will absolutely be detail coming out about those videos that we spent lots of money to produce professionally. So there's going to be some really, really great content coming out around not just that, that panel, but everything else that was, was shared at the summit. So just go to top1.fm, get on the mailing list there, or if you're in the US and maybe Canada now, you can text TOP1, T-O-P, the number 1, to 444-999. So, Dan, the last question that I'll ask to really wrap this first part of the conversation is, if you were to boil everything down into an actionable challenge that the person listening to this could take on over the course of the next 2 weeks, between now and when the next episode launches and becomes available in their feed, what would you have them do?

48:42 Dan Drozewski: Get uncomfortable. And I don't mean, you know, in an uncomfortable chair. I mean in your space that you're in or your mindset. Um, I, I'll go back to my story. I was very, very comfortable in the banking industry. Um, but you know, it did not… I didn't accomplish what I wanted to accomplish. I was too comfortable, right? And the… and getting into this role, going from banking to a pure sales role, it was very uncomfortable for me at the beginning because I didn't, I didn't know what I was getting into. I had to learn something new, you know, in my mid-30s, right? I had 2 kids at home and I had to, I had to learn a whole new trade. I had to learn a whole new skill set and it was very uncomfortable, but it's the best decision that I made. I would challenge anybody that's listening to this to do the same in a way. I mean, it doesn't… you don't need to switch industries, but get uncomfortable. If you are middle of the pack and you want to be a top performer, get uncomfortable. Comfortable, change, change that, uh, change your ways, go outside your comfort zone. I, I mean, that's, that's, that's what I've been doing here for the last 2 years, I would say. Um, and I'm gonna keep doing it. I'm gonna keep doing what, what, uh, what's brought me to the table here and what's, what's made me a top producer.

49:51 Scott Ingram: Beautiful. Well, let's, let's switch gears and talk just a little bit about, um, really just working with recruiters, some of the misconceptions and, and things like that. So let me just start by asking how it is that you work with sales professionals who are looking to make change?

50:07 Dan Drozewski: So the first thing I do is we'll either meet, or if they're not local, we'll speak on the phone. You know, we'll typically spend at least an hour together, right? I need the… I need a firm grasp on what they're doing. And then the, the second half of the conversation is, what do you want to do, right? You know, what type of company you're looking for? Are you looking for a startup? You're looking to take a chance with that? You want a bigger company? You want a mid-sized company? What type of role do you want? Do you need to be inside or outside? What's the money that you're looking for? And I get a firm grasp on that, right? I'm obviously… I obviously want to build a relationship with them as well throughout that conversation and build that level of trust as well. And then, you know, like I said, figure out what I can leverage in their background, what it is that they're doing, so I can make recommendations to them on where I think, you know, the best next step would be.

50:56 Scott Ingram: So what can they do to prepare to really make the most use of that time and working with you to make that relationship really Sing?

51:04 Dan Drozewski: I would say know their numbers, know their metrics. There's a lot of times where I will talk to an individual and they won't know those things, which is… it's okay. I mean, I think you should know. I mean, you asked me mine, I can, I could pretty much rattle mine off the top of my head. I think that it helps me understand, okay, you, are you a top performer? Did you overachieve? What can we leverage here so I can sell you to my clients here, right? And get your foot in the door with some of these people, some of these organizations. I think they need to be prepared for what, you know, with numbers numbers. They need to be prepared with, um, just basic information about their day-to-day activity, and they should be able to articulate that. Um, and I think they should also, um, take, take the call in a quiet area. I think it's… don't take it driving, don't take it when you're outside. Uh, I've had some pretty interesting conversations with people on the phone where, you know, they're running on the treadmill or something like that at the gym or something to that effect. And I think you need… I'm serious… and you need to take it serious. It's a… it's… I'm trying to get a firm grasp on what it is that you do, and I'm going to be extracting certain information from you. And it's based… I think it's pretty basic information that I'm looking for. So there's not a ton of preparation, but I would say above all else, know your numbers, whether it's how many calls a day you make, how many meetings do you have per week, what your quota is, and where did you line up against your quota. You'd be surprised how many individuals you ask those simple basic questions and they either dance around the question or they just… they really don't know the answer.

52:27 Scott Ingram: Got it. Got it. And maybe I should have opened it with this, but I wonder, what are the most common misconceptions that the sellers have about the process of working with a recruiter?

52:38 Dan Drozewski: Um, I think the biggest one is I think they feel like our job is to find them a job, uh, which would be inaccurate. At the end of the day, my job is to find top-tier talent for my clients. That is the number one goal. Um, but at the end of the day, At the end of the day, my allegiance typically is gonna fall with the candidate. They've only got one resume, and my client is going to fill that seat, whether it's through us or an internal means. They're gonna fill that role. But again, like I said, the biggest thing is my job is not to find candidates jobs. I can make recommendations to them. I can help them along the way with any advice that they need, but finding a job is more client-based. We're looking to find them top talent.

53:25 Scott Ingram: Yeah. What are some of the most common recommendations and suggestions that you find yourself kind of delivering over and over and over again?

53:33 Dan Drozewski: As far as recommendations to candidates?

53:34 Scott Ingram: Correct. I'm going to be… I'm going to be 100% focused on the candidates here. Again, like, this is a show for sales professionals, you know, not sales leaders. So I'm going to say they're all the time.

53:44 Dan Drozewski: Sure. I would say resume. That's the number one. Typically, people need a lot of help with their resumes. They're, a lot of the times, they're all over the place. And if it's a sales resume, you need to have numbers in there for sure. It's, I liken a sales resume to, you know, a stat sheet or a baseball card. It's your marketing material. You need to have all that in your resume. You know, what your quota was, what your percentage to goal was, how much revenue you brought on. Number-driven statements, because at the end of the day, a hiring manager is not psyched to read a resume on a daily basis. Right? Neither is your average recruiter or consultant. But what's gonna, what's gonna really make… what's gonna pop is number-driven statements like I mentioned. And I think that the… I'd say 90% of the sales resumes that I look at, they all need that fix.

54:33 Scott Ingram: Got it. And probably not best to do this in audio, but I wonder if we can follow up if you've got a list of resources to help with that and people that can help with resumes that we can put into the show notes. Is that something you can sign my way?

54:44 Dan Drozewski: Sure, absolutely.

54:45 Scott Ingram: Perfect. So how about… obviously the best thing they can do to position themselves is to have great numbers, right? Deliver, be an overperformer, you know, get that documented properly in the resume. What else? What, what else can somebody that wants to continue to grow in their sales career do, uh, to enhance their future opportunities?

55:05 Dan Drozewski: Um, I think that, uh, obviously yes, the, the good resume resume, keep keeping their… doing their research on companies like we talked about, right, at the beginning here. If you're looking to further your career, if you're looking to take that next step into a management role or go from a business development rep to a closing role, you need to research companies. I think working through a recruiter is also key because sometimes we can get your foot in the door where you might not be able to get yourself, right, because we have a relationship with the hiring manager, and we can certainly open up doors that you might not be able to open up on your own.

55:41 Scott Ingram: Got it. Now, when it comes to those transitions, right, so whether it's… I mean, it's obviously really straightforward if you want to work in a similar role in a similar industry, right? That's easy. What if you're looking to change roles, change industries, right, where a lot of times hiring managers want like, I want that specific experience, you know, and this guy's coming out from left field. What's the coaching that you provide for sellers that are in that type of a position and looking to make those types changes?

56:09 Dan Drozewski: Yeah, if they're looking to change industries, I would say have an open mind because, you know, if you're, if you're in the food industry and you're, and you're selling, you know, say food and whatever the case may be, you might be making X amount of money. If you're gonna change industries, you are an unproven commodity. So you may have to take a step back further for the foreseeable future for the first year or 2. But the endgame is to end up making more money, get into, you know, a more flourishing industry. And but you need to keep an open mind with that. And a lot of, a lot of individuals don't have that open mind. Um, you know, I'll give them the speech of, okay, listen, you know, this is, you know, I can, I can do this for you, but you need to realize that you're going to need to take a step back because, you know, you are proficient at what you do now. You need to go learn a whole new industry and take a step back. Um, so I think that, uh, I think that would be the number one, uh, bit of advice I would give.

57:01 Scott Ingram: Got it. Got it. So in order to take those 2 steps forward, you got to take that one step back.

57:04 Dan Drozewski: Exactly.

57:05 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Now what about, we alluded to this earlier, right? So first there's kind of that decision point between being that intentional individual contributor, but perhaps you, you want to go down the, the sales management, sales leadership path. What advice do you have somebody… for somebody, especially if they're looking to take that first step? Because I think that's a very similar situation, right? It's not a different industry, but, um, you've never managed people before. You don't have that experience. So what, what's the advice that you have for somebody trying to make that, that first step into that type of a role?

57:33 Dan Drozewski: Uh, that first step into that role, I would… my, my biggest piece of advice is make sure that it's something that you want to do first and foremost, because you need to be very unselfish to be a leader in an organization, for sure. It's not just about you anymore. Your bandwidth is going to be limited, so you need to make sure that you are capable of that and you can be pulled in 5 different directions at once when needed. If you've kind of taken that mental inventory and you're ready to do that, as far as And as far as the question is concerned, are you asking if the candidate wants to move up through the ranks through me and they're at ABC Company and they're looking to make a move outside of the organization? Is that more where the questions align?

58:18 Scott Ingram: Well, yeah, I guess that makes a little bit more sense, right? That's a place where you could help because if they're internal, right, they should be able to have those conversations and be able to figure out a path. It gets harder when you're trying to make that leap across companies. Companies, right?

58:31 Dan Drozewski: Sure. Yeah. I mean, most likely what's going to happen there is, um, you know, you're gonna have to, you're gonna have to join an organization, uh, and I think we talked about this before, um, that promotes internal growth. Uh, you're probably gonna have to take, uh, a lateral move and, and move your way through the ranks, uh, of a company. Because again, you know, at your current company, you're known, and they may not have a path for you to grow into a manager. But if you're looking outside your organization to take that leap, you're an unproven commodity. They don't know who you are yet. You need to kind of prove are and work your way through the ranks and let the cream rise to the top, so to speak.

59:05 Scott Ingram: Yeah, awesome. So just a couple of open-ended kind of what didn't I ask type of stuff. I mean, what would you… what do you wish sales professionals knew about working with recruiters like you?

59:17 Dan Drozewski: Like I said, the first one is that my role is not to find you a job. The other one is not all recruiters are bad news, because again, I think the industry gets a bad name. You know, there certainly can be some challenging organizations out there, and everybody probably has a story. I see them all the time on LinkedIn about, you know, quote-unquote bad recruiters. But, you know, at the end of the day, we're not all like that, I can tell you, you know. And not every organization functions that way. That would be number one right there for sure that comes to mind.

59:46 Scott Ingram: And any other… you know, I try and do you a service here and make this some, some good evergreen content. Any other advice or stories that you find yourself telling over and over and over over again that we haven't already touched on?

1:00:01 Dan Drozewski: Um, no, I think we covered a lot of… I think we covered everything that, uh, that I'd want to get out there, actually. I think we've done a pretty thorough job from that perspective.

1:00:10 Scott Ingram: Awesome. Well, I don't often do this because usually it's not relevant, but I suppose I should ask, if there's a sales professional listening to this that would like to get in touch with you, how would you suggest they do that?

1:00:21 Dan Drozewski: Send me a LinkedIn request, uh, is probably the best way to get a hold of Um, and, you know, you can, you can shoot me a message from there. And as I said before, I'm always very receptive to any individual that is looking for, um, their next career move. I'd love to be in touch.

1:00:38 Scott Ingram: Perfect. And, and I guess, I would guess it's best practice to maybe personalize that message, say that you listened to the conversation that, that you had with Scott Ingram on the Sales Success Stories podcast to provide some context.

1:00:50 Dan Drozewski: That would be awesome. I would love to hear that. Um, any, if anybody, you know, got a benefit from from, from, from this show here, that would be… I would love to hear that.

1:00:57 Scott Ingram: Fantastic. Me too. Please don't send blind connection requests. I basically ignore them. So, um, but if you're a fan of the show, you listen regularly, by all means, I would love to connect. So send, send those connection requests both our ways. Just be sure to add a note. And if, if you're not familiar, the, the best way, because there, I, there are absolutely some times where you click a button and the request gets sent and you're like, ah, but I, I didn't get to put my note on there. The basically the best practice across the board is start from that person's profile. So if you're in mobile and you're looking at Dan's profile, you can click those 3 buttons on the top and you'll have the opportunity to send a personalized request. Same thing with the desktop version. Go to the profile, hit connect from there, and you'll have the opportunity to add a note. So I try and never ever send a blind connection request and the results are pretty good. And again, because people think you're lazy otherwise and they don't take your request. So Dan, this is been so great. Thanks for having both of these conversations with me just to talk about your own, uh, routine and structure and the way you're doing everything, and then also just to give us some insights into the sales recruiting world and how we can best, uh, work with folks like yourself.

1:02:07 Dan Drozewski: Scott, I appreciate it. Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast. To be sure you never miss an episode and for an invitation to our Sales Success Community powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter at top1.fm.