36: Camille Clemons - Financial Services Sales Career Transitions

0:08 Scott Ingram: You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve. To learn more, visit us at top1.fm. Here's your host, Scott Ingram. Today on the Sales Success Stories podcast, my guest is Camille Clemons. And I caught Camille at a really interesting time as she is making a transition from one firm to another. So, we're intentionally not going to use any company names in this conversation, but you can always look her up on LinkedIn and kind of fill in the gaps for yourself if you're interested. So, Camille works in financial services. She just won an award as the top seller in her previous organization, but decided to go out on top and make a change. And since transitions in sales are are not at all uncommon. We'll get a chance to talk in this unique window that Camille's in about that decision process and also a little bit about some things sales leaders might want to think about and know about when it comes to retaining top talent and how some of these decisions get made and, and, uh, some of what they do kind of impacts those results. So welcome to the show, Camille.

1:20 Camille Clemons: Hi, thanks, Scott.

1:22 Scott Ingram: And I almost forgot, I also want to thank Jeff Bajorek, who is the co-host of the Why and the Buy podcast and a big friend of the show for introducing me to Camille. Now, we'll start like we always do on this show with some front-loaded value. And Camille, what do you think are the top 3 things that have allowed you to get to the top in your financial services role?

1:43 Camille Clemons: Well, before we do that, I don't think we can have this conversation without rewinding and talking about Jeff for a second. I think, um, Jeff and I've known each other for about 17 months. I first met him as a result of listening to Jeffrey Gitomer and his Sell or Die podcast. So, one of the things I think that's important to highlight here is sales is sales, and I think it can be taken very lightly or it can be taken very seriously. And I think in order to become a top producer, you have a requirement to buy in. So, educate yourself, learn as much as you can, read as much as you can, listen to the best, and kind of from there you can craft your own art and figure out what works for you and what doesn't. So, I think as we go through this, it might be interesting to think about how each of us approaches the process a little bit differently. And that doesn't make it right or wrong. That just makes it yours.

2:42 Scott Ingram: I love that call-out. And Jeff is absolutely one of my favorite people to talk to and kind of bounce ideas off of back and forth and something we do with some regularity. And to your point, and the reason why I sort of structure these conversations the way I do is it's one thing to read a book and see different approaches and different strategies. It's a whole nother to see how they get applied in the real world and how you bring all of those different unique approaches together with the finite amount of time and your personality and who you are. And that's really what we try and do is, is get at how do you bring all of this together and make it work in the way that you operate and find success in sales?

3:27 Camille Clemons: That's right. There's only one you, so everyone else is taken.

3:31 Scott Ingram: Beautiful. So what are those top 3, Camille?

3:34 Camille Clemons: So I think the things that have allowed me to get to the top of where I am, and I think we're in a really competitive industry and there's maybe a commoditized approach to what we do. So finding your way to differentiate is really important. And one of the first things I learned is that people are buying you essentially. You're building relationships, you're helping problem solve, you're bringing new ideas to the table, you're, you're bringing your understanding of the industry. And those are just like, we're reading a lot of different types of books to become the best version of us. I think we have a lot of different aspects that we see where our clients don't necessarily have that because they're working for a single firm. Um, so I try to take the lessons that a lot of my clients have learned along the way and help them as my other clients are facing similar issues. So, that's number one, is just remembering what you've learned and applying it productively to the conversations that you're having with your clients and remembering that, you know, you are the face of the firm and it's never… you can never think about that too much. How you do anything is how you do everything. And I would say that that's number 2 for me, is I never allow myself to not give 100%. Mediocrity is very, very dangerous. And sure, you can get by, or sure, you can meet your quota by just doing what is necessary to get the job done. But I do have a firm belief in putting your best foot out there every time you, every time you go. I would say number 3 is my willingness to be open to the possibility of yes. So, what that means for me is not being afraid of hearing no, But getting really excited about what happens if they say yes. And I think that plays out in a couple of different ways through the course of my career, not only in some of the sales successes that I've had, but just generally in some of the opportunities that have come across my desk.

5:35 Scott Ingram: Beautiful. Well, so, so well articulated. Oftentimes I have lots of follow-up questions about the top 3, but I think that that was very complete and we'll certainly be coming back to some of those things, I'm sure, as we get into the rest of the conversation. But let's, let's get a little bit of context here, you know, as much as you can, kind of given the situation that I described up top. I mean, tell us about your previous role a little bit. What exactly were you selling and how did you get to number 1?

6:01 Camille Clemons: Okay. So, I sell something called fund administration. And as I tell my children, um, who are 12 and 8, I sell math essentially. Um, so, if you have an investment product that you've put your money into, like a mutual fund or a hedge fund or some sort of a pooled product. My firm produces the valuations for those investments and then keeps track of your portion of the investment, sends you some statements, answers your questions about kind of what's going on with your money if you have them, and keeps the investment manager… so the person in charge of making investments on your behalf… kind of checks and balances to ensure that everything's being done properly. Um, so fund administration is really key to what we do. Um, there's a lot of services around that, that, um, that go along with it. But I think at the end of the day, financial services, fund administration.

6:59 Scott Ingram: And who's the buyer of that?

7:00 Camille Clemons: So the main buyers of fund administration or financial services generally are investment managers. So, um, typically someone who is running a quote unquote pooled investment product and, uh, fund administration applies across the board to any real type of a, a pooled investment, so mutual funds, hedge funds, ETFs, interval funds, collective trusts, real estate funds, etc. So we're selling into the investment management community and we're offering them a service that most of them are, by this point in time, outsourcing to an independent third party.

7:37 Scott Ingram: Perfect. That context is really helpful, especially for somebody like me who… I certainly understood the selling math part because I feel like that's what I do to my 10 and 12-year-old.

7:47 Camille Clemons: Yes, exactly. We have a money tree out back. I'm sorry, children.

7:53 Scott Ingram: Exactly. Exactly. So, Camille, what's your origin story? How did you get into sales in the first place?

7:59 Camille Clemons: Well, I'll start with how I approached college. So, I went to a very small liberal arts college by the name of Ripon College based in the middle of Wisconsin. Had I to do it over again, I likely would make the same choice in school, but man, I wish I would have thought about going somewhere warm for sure. I didn't. The school was roughly 800 students when I was there. And really what that did for me is it was a next step after high school. I went to a small high school. I grew up in a small town. I liked the concept of knowing everybody and being able to make friends and, you know, things like that. That was important to me. I didn't ever want to just be a number. And I think that it's becoming very clear to me why it sales is an interesting career path because you don't want to just be a number. You want to be memorable and you want to stand out and you want to be valuable. So, I majored in business with an emphasis in sports journalism, which again may not be typical, but I also had a minor in leadership. So, I went to a small school. I met a lot of people. I got very involved and I ended up being on the alumni board of directors as a student. So, when you're a junior or a senior, you're nominated to be a part of this group. And through that process, I met a man by the name of Peter Sparrow, and I've actually referenced him in some degree later in this interview, but he was a very influential person in the early stages of my career, and we lost him much too early in May of 2015, but he did a lot of a lot of influencing of me in the early stages. So, I graduated from Ripon. Peter had gotten me an interview and I had interviewed with a few other people with a firm by the name of Northern Trust. And I'll mention that because I spent a dozen years in the beginning of my career at that firm, working all the way through operations, working in kind of the nuts and bolts of the industry. So, understanding kind of not only how to essentially strike a nav, which is what I was doing, but how what I was doing fit into the greater scheme to the end product to our client. And what I realized through that process was I hated striking NAVs. I hated the math portion of the job, but I really liked the industry and all of the different things that were happening. So, what I did is I took kind of a position that I was going to take every role I had until I got to be a salesperson and understand how it affected the end result. Or how it affected the end product. I spent 6 years, 7 years actually, in that part of the business. Then I moved into kind of a middle office position. Then eventually I became a sales support person for the sales team. I spent a few years there before making my transition to my next spot.

11:00 Scott Ingram: That's incredibly methodical. You set out from day 1 with the vision of, I want to be a salesperson, but I want to have all of this background and understand all of the inner workings first.

11:13 Camille Clemons: It sounds a lot better when you say it. I would argue that going into my first job and even in the first few years, that was not the case. But once I realized that I had a stable income, I was young, I could kind of do what I wanted. I lived in the city. I didn't have any responsibilities. Why not do this as best I can and then take what I'm learning and move on to the next level. So, I didn't come out like that, but looking back, I can tell that I was certainly methodical about where I was moving. And whether I knew it or not, it would get me to where I wanted to be. I figured it was always at least a good pit stop and I'd learn something.

11:51 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So, knowing kind of how that journey played out, knowing what you know now, if you could go over and start that process over again, is there anything that you would have done differently?

12:02 Camille Clemons: Not a thing.

12:03 Scott Ingram: And that's fascinating to me, you know, and I think back to the conversation that I had with Ryan Alvord, who was number 1 of 400 in his role at Paychex and incredibly consistent over basically a decade. And he did sort of the same thing, not, not quite as long and not quite as methodical, but spending a lot of time coming from operations and getting that perspective and learning what the client challenges are and just developing this crazy sense of empathy makes you just a superstar on the sales side that I don't know that you can get to from if you only ever work in sales roles.

12:42 Camille Clemons: Well, that's just it. I mean, I've… it's funny looking back now, it's clear that the salespeople who I feel are the best at what they do are the ones that have the experience of either being on the other side of the table. So being an investment manager and, you know, going out and trying to get your fund to garner assets, or they've been in operations. And I think I'm still on the fence whether or not salespeople are born or made. I think that there's a healthy component of sales in every person because I also argue that everyone, no matter what their role in the firm is, is a salesperson. Every day you wake up and you do your job, and you do your job so that you can continue to do a job. So I think We all kind of have to be salespeople, um, regardless of our role, but yeah, unique might not be the right word, but I do think the experience has a lot of value.

13:34 Scott Ingram: And again, just sort of fascinating. I think the way I'm seeing it is it creates a different foundation, right? If you were thinking of it as a pyramid or something else, right? It's such a, it's so much of a broader base and you can likely build to higher levels in what you're able to do. Versus being very thin and sort of just building brick, brick, brick right on top of each other straight up through a, through a straight kind of sales role. So we'll, we'll come back to the, to the career stuff because clearly you are very thoughtful about your approach and where you're going with all this. And obviously we get to talk about this, this decision that you've made to change and what drove that and why are you moving in that path. But before we go there, I would love to hear one of your favorite sales stories, whether you won or lost, and what you learned from it.

14:25 Camille Clemons: I was thinking about this question, and I think that favorite would typically indicate that it was a good outcome. And I have, I guess I have an opportunity to tell you a story about one of each, one that was a great outcome and one that, well, let's just say if there is a time in my career I could have done something maybe a little bit differently, it would have been that one. So, I'll start with the first one, which is the good outcome. And I want to take you kind of through the process and knowing that the firm that I represent is playing into a specific part in the market and typically servicing what we would consider a middle market client. So, somewhere between $150 million up to a couple of billion. Anyone bigger than that historically likely hadn't either heard of us or we were just deemed too small to handle their size and scale and their needs and all of these things. And when I was given the opportunity to try and close this piece of business, it was a firm that's based in New York and they're a pretty large investment management shop and they're all private equity. And they're enormous as far as the grand scheme is concerned, and they play in a pretty specific niche of the market. They were launching a fund that was a fund that was following on to a couple of other funds that were ridiculously successful. They were in the unique position that they did the work in-house, and they had recently had a transition where it allowed them to look elsewhere. So they had a group of people that were doing things for them in-house, and there was consolidation in the industry, and they ended up selling that portion of their business. So what they did was they went outside and they said, okay, let's see what our other options are. And I want to say they're over $100 billion, so sizable for sure. And they could go to anywhere and be serviced by the best teams in the industry. So they knew that they had the upper hand because they were, they were the big fish. So my thought process walking into this was not how can we possibly win over our competition? It wasn't that at all. In fact, I'm not going to go off and like talk about art and how making time to make human connections is what drives business success. But I do strongly believe that having the ability to set aside success when you walk into a room or you're on the phone with somebody or you're interacting with them, regardless of where they went to school or how many billions of dollars they manage, where they live, any of those things. And realize that you're a person sitting across the table from another person that could benefit from what you have. So it sounds small, or maybe not, I don't know, but it was the first time I ever took that approach where I'm like, it doesn't matter. You could go to Yale, you could be brilliant, you could, you know, live on an island that you own with your own internet, like whatever the case may be, like you're great. It's amazing. But we're really good at what we do too. And We're going to tell you why. And it worked. We were able to demonstrate that we could handle this really complex reporting requirement that they had for one of their largest allocators. And we were able to answer their questions and we were able to do it in a really non… what's the word? What's the word I'm looking for? It was a natural way. They could tell that we knew what we were doing because we had the right people in the room. We were prepared and we were able to answer every question that they threw at us, maybe as good or better than our competition was. So, at the end of the day, that relationship has grown to be significant for the firm, and it's one that I can say I'm really proud of. And I think it will be really hard to actually have to walk away from it.

18:30 Scott Ingram: I love that. And then you had, you had a counterexample that you had me grinning about in terms of, sounds like there were some really good lessons learned along the way.

18:38 Camille Clemons: You know, there were. So, let's just say that my biggest takeaway is never to take the process for granted. So, that was my lesson. That was the takeaway. And that was the takeaway for the team too. So, we walked into a finals presentation where we were going up against competition that we'd gone up against in, I would say, 70% of the deals that we come into. They're known. They're big. They have a lot of ability to cut prices and do some creative things to win business. And we don't, but at the same time, we had a really good relationship, I thought, with the decision makers. And it turns out we probably didn't put the proper amount of time into the presentation. We knew it was a finals deal, so it was kind of the last ditch effort to make our case. We just were all over the place. We came with an agenda and a smile, and we're hoping that it would be enough. And it just wasn't. The meeting lasted too long. The technology didn't work. We literally fell flat on our faces. And afterwards we walked out and typically I'm a, if the glass isn't half full, go get a smaller glass and change your perspective. But I couldn't here. Like there was nothing I could do. I took responsibility and I said, you know what, you guys, we're not going to get this one. Let's, let's learn and move on. There is no sense dwelling on the past. It's over. If they do call us back and do that with the purpose of more than just hanging up on us, we'll consider that our takeaway. Um, so anyway, it was, it was rough. It was really, really rough. And when the wheels were falling off, there was just nothing I could do. I, I, yeah, I can laugh now, but at the time it was very, very painful.

20:31 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Well, again, those, those things happen, but I think I, And I love the, I love the go get a smaller class analogy just in terms of the, of the overarching, uh, sort of outlook. Right. But we've all been there for sure. So, so let's, let's talk about brighter, brighter things. Cause I realized I skipped over a really important question just again, from a contextual perspective. And that is just asking you to kind of quantify your results for us and help us understand. What did it take to get to the top of your, your financial services role?

21:07 Camille Clemons: I've been in the field for roughly 4 years. So closing 2017, I was 136% of goal. Um, I think it's maybe important to note that my goal year over year increased. Um, obviously year 1, I had no previous goals. So 100%, uh, year 2, I went up 33% from that and year 3, I went up 25% from that. So every year I've had an incremental adjustment in my quote unquote goal. Um, but I really don't ever think about that as being like, I'm going to hit that number and then I'm done working. That's not my style. You have to have, you know, a consistent additive approach to your pipeline. Otherwise, I think you really run the risk of not being able to sustain what you've worked so hard to build.

21:59 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. And then what are you most proud of? I mean, this is, this is kind of a long success story in the making. What, what is the, is the thing that you like to hang your hat on?

22:10 Camille Clemons: I am most proud of my ability to just achieve, right? I set out with a goal of becoming a salesperson and I did it. And when I look back, I think, man, you didn't really give yourself much credit, right? Like all you wanted to do was be a salesperson. And I'm not minimizing the role of a salesperson, but what But my point to that comment is I didn't realize that I had the ability to do great things and to be successful. And I thought, if I could set a goal, I'm going to make a goal that I have a likely chance of achieving. And I think just my ability to achieve the goal is probably to date my biggest accomplishment.

22:55 Scott Ingram: Awesome. And then what about the flip side? What do you find to be the most challenging? Oh boy.

23:02 Camille Clemons: I think I'll point back to the first transition in my career. I started out at a firm that was widely renowned worldwide, had a great reputation in the industry, really a brand name that if you think about selling, it kind of sells itself. Yes, you have to do to go through the process and you have to, you know, sell. But at the end of the day, it really wasn't an underdog sale. And jumping from that to a firm that was similar in the fact that it's a custody bank-owned operation, so it had a large custody bank behind it where there's a lot of history. I think each of them had over 100 years of history, so they were long-established in the industry and very safe, if you will, decisions. And that part was the easy part, knowing that I was going from one, you know, stable financial institution to the other. The thing that was terrifying was I didn't know the market. It was serving a much different type of client than I was accustomed to selling into or supporting the sell into. And And they're small comparatively. They were only US-based, Kansas City, Midwest. So, I think there's something to be said for having Midwest roots, especially selling into New York. I think it's an endearing thing almost. It's a weird advantage to be Midwest-based because there's a perception that we're nice people. And I would say, yes, that's true. But it was nice to see that it was well received in the New York market too. Um, but I think at the end of the day, you know, the biggest challenge was just figuring out that it was time. I could have stayed in a safe, stable situation. I could have like made a fine living supporting the, you know, the salespeople on my team, but I didn't feel I owned anything. I didn't really feel like I had a an impact to the firm. I didn't feel like what I was doing was really making much of a difference. So, I decided to take a chance. And when I was first approached about making a change, my initial reaction was similar to the reaction I had in my, what will be most recent conversion. And that was, no, I'm good. Like, I'm happy. There's nothing wrong with where I am. Why would I consider leaving this? To come work for you? And once you change the dynamics and put that question on the people who are trying to hire you, or you should be… they should be asking you, why would we want to hire you? It gives you the opportunity to look at it from the standpoint of, can I really do something different here to benefit the greater good? Will I be proud of what I'm doing at the end of the year? The answer is yes. The answer was yes when I made the first jump. I was very fortunate to land in a company that did so much to help me understand where my real potential was. And I'm fortunate to the leaders of these firms because they just gave me the chance to kind of maximize my potential where I was at the time. And I think in the new role, it's even kind of ratcheted up 100 times that. And I'm really excited about the prospects for that too. And I took the same approach there as I did the first time.

26:43 Scott Ingram: And I mean, part of, I think, the challenge in that is what you talked about from the stepping out from the very well-known in a lot of ways, in that the company's well-known, your role is well understood, you're having success, things are good. Into the completely unknown in a lot of ways, right? A lesser-known firm. You have no idea what that role is. What, what was your process for really just doing the due diligence and figuring out, is, is this really the right move?

27:18 Camille Clemons: I'm not sure if you're going to like this answer or not, but I take a lot of stock in what my gut tells me to do. I would say it's easy to make a safe bet, but it's way more rewarding to make a bet that while it could fail, it could be awesome. And I've stopped being scared about failing because I think it's a useless waste of energy. And I've started to be really excited about the potential of building something amazing. And that's what this new role is going to provide me, a more substantive way for the masses is while you do have a gut feeling, I think at the end of the day, you're the only one who can tell yourself where your boundaries are and where your limits are. And once you take away those limits and boundaries and maybe try to step back and look at it from a kind of a macro level. So looking at it from top down saying, okay, this is where I am. This is what I've done. I'm super proud of what I am. And maybe it's more of the reflective nature of the process. That I think yielded me a lot of clarity. I was not fortunate enough to have people I could talk to about the potential change because I couldn't run the risk of, of like letting anyone know what I was doing. I think it involved international travel where I had to be super sly about taking vacation. It involved kind of a process that went through a recruiter, which was a first for me. And so, I had to take a lot of stock on my own emotions through the process and what I was really thinking as opposed to being able to normalize the concept with a lot of people. So that's partially the reason I say my gut was really all I had. I mean, I could talk to my family, but at the end of the day, they really couldn't relate to what I was going through because it wasn't them. And it was a really personal decision just like it had been the previous time.

29:21 Scott Ingram: Well, and what's interesting, and you mentioned the recruiter and, you know, there's, there's always these different pulls and I have to chuckle because usually I wouldn't let something like this distract me, but it was, it was just too perfect. As we've been talking, I get a LinkedIn note from a recruiter and I'm like, okay, I have to look at this just given kind of the conversation where we're going. And a lot of times, I mean, not an unusual occurrence. Most of the time it's pretty generic and I will pretty generically just sort of blow it off and it's not relevant. This one's actually pretty good. I mean, the timing of it's ironic, right? And a lot of times, again, I'm in for my goals and my definition of success and what I'm trying to accomplish right now. I'm in a really, really great spot. But this one, like, they actually did their research. They actually know they've got a good sense of who I am and what I'm about and why this might be interesting. So it's, it's interesting positioning. And I think you've got an interesting perspective on You know, when, when is the right time to engage in those conversations and sort of explore those next steps? And when isn't it?

30:27 Camille Clemons: So I think the most important thing is realizing that you're not running away from something, but you're more running to something. It's never a productive use of time or energy to run from something because it only compounds whatever it is you're running away from. And it will be all the more difficult when you actually have to face it, because at the end of the day, it'll come back to haunt you. It just will. Um, so can you re-ask me your question? Well, yeah, it is. I just wanna make sure I'm, I'm doing it justice cuz it's a really good question. I just can't, I distracted myself for sure.

31:04 Scott Ingram: And, and it was, it was really just about, you know, as, as opportunities are, are brought to you, when, when do you choose to engage?

31:12 Camille Clemons: So it's funny, there's a lot going on in our marketplace right now and there's a lot of consolidation and a lot of our competitors are buying our smaller competitors And there's just, there's a ton happening right now. So, being contacted just as you were by a recruiter with a generic message, I don't even consider that being contacted because it's like spam. They probably sent it to all of the people that met some minimum criteria, like you had a heartbeat. And no offense, I'm sure that came out wrong, but you know what I'm saying? Like, it's very simple to read through kind of a canned email message. What I think is more difficult and why this one caught my eye, and there've been few that… what I mean by that is they knew enough about me and they could see through either my LinkedIn profile or maybe they called people to ask about me. I'm not sure, but they came to me with an opportunity that I didn't even know that I would be considered for. And at the end of the day, I think why I made the move, I would say that recruiters should get a little bit of credit because he was able to not only identify me in the sea of people who could have been called for this, but he was able to help me understand that, yeah, you can do this. And he was one component. I think Jeff's another one. He's always been able to help you answer your own question just by listening to you. So, I would say that I just knew it was time once I went through the process with them and I gave it a shot and I was open to the idea that I could actually do the job. Um, the decision was pretty clear to me that it was the right time.

32:56 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. Well, so I got some advice very early in my career, which was you should always talk to recruiters, right? You never know. It's good to kind of keep your eyes and ears open and that kind of thing. I actually think that your filter of if it's not differentiated, if, you know, I fogged a mirror and you think that, you know, that's, that's enough of a criteria, then that, then that doesn't count. Because I do think that there's value in just understanding it. And I also will frequently take the conversations just to get a sense of what the market's doing. It puts me in a position to be more helpful to my, my other friends in sales and in my network.

33:39 Camille Clemons: Right.

33:40 Scott Ingram: It may not be the right thing for me, but maybe I know somebody that I can give them a leg up. So, you know, I think you have to kind of create your own rules and your own criteria and figure out, you know, when and where and why am I going to engage with recruiters in some of these conversations? And I think it's fair to insist that, you know, you have… if you are going to ask me to take time, much like when we're doing our own prospecting work, right? You have to put in some level of actual effort if you expect somebody to respond, and I think it's only fair that we can hold those own standards in what we respond to.

34:18 Camille Clemons: I completely agree. And preparedness is something that early in my sales career, I OD'd on. I would say that I, to maybe a fault, was prepared every time I walked into a room to have the answer to every question that would be asked. And as I evolved in my sales career, I would say that it became less important for me to know all the answers and almost a challenge to not, because I think part of the process of a sale and building that relationship is learning about someone. And people love to talk about themselves and people love to talk about what they do. And if you have a genuine interest in wanting to get to know someone, And I do. I think I like people generally. I like to help people. And if you just let them open up and talk about themselves, you learn so much more than spending hours trying to figure out where they went to high school and who their college mascot was and if they played on the basketball team. So, I do think that there is something natural that comes out in that process.

35:29 Scott Ingram: Well, along those lines, I mean, what's the real driver? Or if there's a couple, maybe you want to rank them, right? Is it helping somebody? Is it the money? Is it, you know, what drives all this?

35:43 Camille Clemons: It's kind of a loaded question. I think at the end of the day, I believe in what I'm doing and I can see how it helps not only our clients directly, but it also helps their clients and it helps just generally the industry. And I say that and it sounds like, whatever, that's a lot of white noise, but I mean it. So I think the way we help our clients is not just the evaluation process that we go through and how we help them be SEC compliant, but they're doing what they love to do. They want to be an investment manager. They want to manage a fund. They want to do this, and this is their dream job. I get to help them kind of live that dream out by doing all of these things that they don't want to take care of. And while I would argue that fund accounting and administration isn't a glitzy and glamorous job, I know that it's an essential part of the process. And I get to do what I love to do, which is help people and get to know people and build relationships that take really strange turns. Because you'll find that as you build your client base, you also get to know people. I did have a client who asked me to do a CrossFit class with them, and I did. And I will tell you that I hadn't done it before, but once I decided it was okay to do that, like there's nothing wrong with going and doing a workout with a client, it was really fun and I had a lot of fun doing it. So I think at the end of the day, It's just the wanting to help people, and this is how I've found I'm best able to do that.

37:26 Scott Ingram: Beautiful. So let's, let's switch gears and talk about some of the habits and routines and working out and all that stuff. So I always lead into this conversation by asking, are you a morning person or are you more of a night owl?

37:40 Camille Clemons: I'm both, which is a problem. So I love mornings because I love seeing the sunrise. I'm… in the summer, I'm a paddleboarder, so I like to go out and take my board and just be on the water and kind of have my own little time. And in the summer, it's nice because I often do that as the sun is rising. So, it may not be the safest thing now that I'm thinking about it, but I certainly enjoy the time a lot. My husband, however, is a night owl, so I find myself maybe more than 4 times a week falling asleep on the couch because we're talking about something or watching something on television or I'm reading and there's a fire. But I do try to go to bed so that at least I can be up before the kids and kind of start my day quietly as opposed to like my hair is on fire.

38:31 Scott Ingram: Nice. So, let's start there. I mean, what is the detail of kind of that morning routine and dousing your hair?

38:40 Camille Clemons: Well, thankfully that's not true. Although I do have red hair, it's generally not on fire. I've learned that you just have to take deep breaths if you're starting to feel overwhelmed and your hair is on fire. So I wake up probably around 6 o'clock in the morning, maybe sometimes earlier, sometimes a little later. I grab my coffee, I read some articles, whatever's come through overnight, and then I get the kids off to school. And I think I pride myself on not having a set routine where every day I brush my teeth at 6:05 and I take a shower at 7:15. And like, I don't do things like that. And I think that there's some freedom in the flexibility because my day isn't really determined by me. It's determined by who's calling me or what do I need to finish for that day. And one thing I do have discipline around is planning tomorrow today. So, as much as I can, I figure out when my first meetings are. Have I done everything I need to do to prepare for those? Do I have time to go to the gym today? Do I not? And if I don't, how can I fit something else in? Take a walk. It is important for me every day to have some sort of a level of activity. I find that when I don't, I have less energy to become a night owl too. And I'll always feel stronger after a workout. So, I would say I try to get that in every day. Otherwise, I just kind of let the day take whatever turns it needs to take.

40:10 Scott Ingram: Nice. So, it sounds like there's a lot of different activities, a lot of finding ways to fit the workouts in. What else are you doing from a fitness perspective?

40:24 Camille Clemons: Well, I used to be an athlete, so I think it's important that… I think once you are an athlete, you can never kind of shake that. You may not look the same way you used to look, but at the end of the day, staying healthy is an important element. Aspect to being an athlete, and I think I'm fortunate that that's kind of carried me through today too. I do try to stay active. It clears my mind. I think I'll take a walk if I can't get to the gym. At least I'll get out there and breathe some fresh air. And I live in Chicago, so it's typically warm only a few months out of the year here. I love the off-seasons, so spring and fall, but my, my favorite time in the city is certainly the summer where I can be out on the water and outside. I find my happy place out there. Occasionally in the summer, spring, fall, I'll actually take my office outside. So, I'll sit on the deck or the patio. And I'm fortunate that I have the flexibility. But yeah, outside is my main place to be.

41:24 Scott Ingram: Perfect. And then just other ways that you might be structuring… maybe we want to zoom out a little bit, right? Structuring your week or your month Um, yeah, given that you, it sounds like you kind of plan the day and, and, but, but in a lot of ways just kind of let it go with the flow. Yeah.

41:41 Camille Clemons: I think if I over-engineer things, it seems to feel rigid and I'll get less done as opposed to, you know, having general guidelines of things you want to accomplish during the day and in getting through those, but otherwise just kind of taking the hits as they come. Um, but what I'll say from kind of a macro level is I would argue Q1 for me, if we want to take it all the way there, I travel probably 60% of the time. Maybe between 50 and 60, kind of depending. So we have heavier travel periods and then lighter times too. And again, that's driven by the clients and prospects and when they're available to meet or when their projects are coming due. So Q1 for me is spent doing industry events like client conferences or attending conferences, visiting clients, making sure that they've got what they need and really setting up a productive Q3, or sorry, Q2, which is a lot of, you know, finals presentations, hopefully, if you're doing it right. And then just maintaining deals as the year flows on. I do find it super important to keep your foot on the pedal, meaning just because you've closed a deal, it's not the time to sit back and congratulate yourself, but it's really the best time to find your next best prospect And you never know if that last phone call of the day, even though it's 5 o'clock or, you know, maybe you don't feel like talking to anyone on the phone, I always answer the phone. In fact, when I answer the phone, people sometimes are like, whoa, wait, you picked up? And I think they're so accustomed to voicemail and not having to talk to you and leaving a voicemail that it's actually an interesting sales tactic. Anyway, Q2 is generally spent, like I said, following up on what I've done in Q4 and Q1. Q3, or the summer months, do tend to get a little bit quieter in my industry. I feel like once school's out and before school goes back in, that's when a lot of people get vacations in. But it's also become kind of a sleeper, so a sleeping time where if you can find the people who are in the office, office, it is actually maybe a little bit easier to get their attention and focus because everyone else is out of the office. So getting things done in the summer months, while historically you could just think, well, I'll go take my vacation too, has actually become one of the more productive parts of the year. Q3, so fall, is typically like Q1 where there are industry events going on and there's a lot of just kind of maintenance work. And then Q4 is when I found people just want to get things done before the end of the year. So it's a very busy time for us, and it's a time when you can kind of, you know, tighten up the shoes, get out there, make your last calls, and wrap things up for the year. So I always like to finish out strong. I think December travel, I'm typically done by the first from an in-house visit, if you will, so going to visit clients and prospects, I'm typically done by the first week in December. And I've found that things do kind of taper off after that until the new year. So hopefully that's helpful. I think though the underlying theme is you kind of just have to do it when they want to do it and be ready to do it no matter what time of year it is.

45:11 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. During the heavy travel times, do you have different kind of tips and tricks and tactics that help you stay sane on the road?

45:24 Camille Clemons: I do have things that help me stay sane. I'm hopeful that they will be at least helpful to know that you can stay sane on the road. I know travel is tough, but I think for me it became much easier when I realized that, all right, if I'm on the road, that means that I'm gone gone, gone, like I'm traveling away from home. I can use those hours I'm away to maximize my time on the road. So for me, a successful day on the road is no less than 5 meetings. And if I'm going to be away, I'm going to maximize my time. So I'm going to make a breakfast, I'm going to make a mid-morning, I'm going to make a lunch, a mid-afternoon, and then hopefully a dinner or something like that. And then when I'm done with with those 3 or 4 days on the road, I come back to the office and I follow up. And if I'm light one day because someone cancels, and you can't really get all bent out of shape if somebody cancels because things do come up, and just kind of rolling with it and realizing that nothing is the end of the world and taking some of the pressure off of, you know, being as prepared as you can be. Like, if you forget your shoes, you can buy shoes, or if you forget your toothbrush, you can find a toothbrush. So, just taking a deep breath and realizing, okay, I've found the process that works for me. I've got my bag. It's got my toiletries in it. My shoes are all in. Preparing that way for me is, it minimizes the risk of forgetting your driver's license and not being able to make it through TSA.

46:57 Scott Ingram: Yeah. I think the proof of a traveling salesperson, we probably all have way too many belts. I don't know what it is about belts. It feels like I'm always purchasing belts on the road.

47:11 Camille Clemons: You know, I always forget… well, I've forgotten a belt occasionally, but I think it's a little more difficult for a woman to find the belt than it is for a man. Like, they don't just sell our belts in Walgreens. You have to actually go to like a store, and typically those stores are not open before your breakfast meeting. But I have found that I need shoes when I'm on the road. Because I consider like my dress shoes are almost my new Nikes because I, I sell in New York. So you literally run from meeting to meeting or you're up and down the subway stairs or whatever you're doing. And you'll always, or at least not always, but for me, I've found that my shoes take a lot of the brunt of pain. And so I find myself having to buy shoes, which isn't an awful thing.

47:58 Scott Ingram: Oh, that's awesome. What about the, the tools and apps that you're sort of living on, whether that's on the road or just in, in your day-to-day?

48:05 Camille Clemons: I've taken a ton of time to make sure that this is like a pristine part of my, of my job. So when you have tools that do not work for you, don't think that there's not a better way to do it, because there is. There's always a better way. Um, I think the bank-issued laptop that I had to deal with for a couple of years Finally, I just bit the bullet and bought my own laptop, and we figured out a way to have a virtual desktop in the office that got all the updates that it needed to get and the new software and the patches and all of those things. So it took that off of me and allowed me to carry an efficient machine with kind of the most up-to-date software. So that was number one. My MacBook is half of my life. The other half is my iPhone. I don't leave the home without that or my Jabra Elites, which are little earbuds that are wireless. But I've tried probably 15 different earbuds in the marketplace and none of them were sufficient. Either the person on the other line couldn't hear or you couldn't hear or it muffled when it was windy. And I found that these are really helpful. So, I would say all of those things are what I take with me when I go or when I'm here actually too. But I always I always keep an eye on kind of being a throwback. And I say that because I love to take notes. And as I mentioned earlier in my career, I probably took them, like, way too many of them. I have all these notebooks on my shelf and I'm not sure if I'll ever crack them again, but the volume itself is enough to show that I used to love being a note-taker. But I still do find a lot of joy in sending a thank you note that I've written and I've signed and I've addressed and I've mailed, because I think I think, as I've talked about, this is a people business and a relationship business. I think that it's easy to forget about the little things and stationery, I would say, is one of those little things that I think are super valuable as I'm out there selling.

50:10 Scott Ingram: Great stuff. Great stuff. What about your information diet? What are you reading, listening to, and watching?

50:16 Camille Clemons: I've never heard of an information diet. That's pretty funny. About as varied in my consumption of information as I am in my kind of workouts. So I would say I've oversubscribed to the number of daily emails that can come your way. I'm pretty sure I'm subscribed to all of them. And what I found is I spent a lot of time deleting emails and unsubscribing to emails, but there are a few out there that I've I've learned provide me kind of the bite-sized pieces that I need to kind of stay up to speed on what's happening in our industry, and then just more generally what's going on in the world. But I do try to have 2 or 3 different sources just to give me a varied view of all of those things, because I think if you rely too heavily on any one source, your view just becomes too narrow, and you may lose sight of a differing opinion or perspective.

51:14 Scott Ingram: Yeah, I think that's, that's important these days. So finding, finding good balances is fantastic. What about just overarching? Do you subscribe to a particular sales philosophy or approach?

51:28 Camille Clemons: Oh boy. Well, there's certainly no shortage of sales philosophies or approaches to which one might subscribe. Um, so I guess, I mean, I, I feel like I sound like a broken record, but I read all the books, I take kind of stock of how my process and approach lines up to what I'm reading or listening to. And I would say I take kind of the Steve Kerr approach. And I don't know if you've listened to his podcast or his interview on being a leader, but you have to find, like I said, your… almost your magazine or your library of resources, read them, listen to them, hear them, and not just read the words, but like figure out as you're reading how to practically apply what they're saying. And then almost make a decision. Yes, this will help me in my approach, or no, this won't. Don't dwell on it, but remember it because there could be a time where, oh wait, you're right. The little gold book of yes attitude. Oh, I could use that right now. And you can go take it out and you can reread it or whatever the case may be. But I think you, you do run the risk of being being rigid in your process if you only subscribe to a single approach.

52:45 Scott Ingram: And that's, that's a great, great call-out. I think that approach in general is probably what most of the folks that I've talked to on this show have sort of done, right? It is some amalgamation of many different strategies and approaches. And I think the way that you're going about it and being intentional about, yes, this is relevant, this is something that I will use and bring into my process, or Nope, that's just noise. That's not going to help me. I can ignore that and move on to the next thing.

53:12 Camille Clemons: Right. Or just tuck it in the back of your mind and think, okay, it's an interesting thought. Not really applicable now, but maybe someday it will come in handy. And I know that that's happened to me too.

53:22 Scott Ingram: Um, yeah. And so I don't, I don't think that I'm familiar with, with Steve Kerr, but like we always do with these, if you go to top1.fm and pull up the show notes for this episode, we will have links. We will find it. Um, so we'll have a good link there.

53:35 Camille Clemons: I'll send it to you.

53:36 Scott Ingram: Perfect.

53:37 Camille Clemons: It's definitely worth the read.

53:39 Scott Ingram: It will be in there for sure. So, let's talk a bit about what kind of your beliefs, and I wonder if there's something that you believe that the average sales professional would think is maybe just a little bit crazy.

53:57 Camille Clemons: Well, sure. So, I think as I look at my approach, I think that people might think it's crazy that I don't think you can fake being genuine. Having a genuine interest in people is something that has to be just that. It has to be genuine, and you have to want to get to know people and have a real want to help them. And what that means isn't just, you know, being genuine in your smile or having a firm handshake, but it means that you are willing to do the little things that take time. So being responsive, being helpful. If it's not in your wheelhouse, finding whose wheelhouse it's in and connecting the dots. It's doing the extra work. It's, it's just finding time to make them understand that they are important and you're going to do what it takes. You're their advocate and you're gonna help them solve their problem.

54:56 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

54:57 Camille Clemons: So I think it might feel crazy to people that I think that way, and it may be, maybe because they think it's a given, but it's very simple to not return a phone call that day or not respond to the email, or, you know what, they don't need a thank-you note this time, or whatever, you know, your thing is. But I do think being a genuine person is of the utmost importance.

55:22 Scott Ingram: You know what's interesting about that is, is I'm flashing back to the conversation that I had with Antony Rhine, and he was very almost picky about who he would work with and actually sell to. And I think it was related to that. I think it was, look, I'm not going to fake it. Life is too short. If we don't like each other, I'm not going to pretend and it probably just isn't going to work out. So, you know, finding people where, yes, I am generally interested because you're right, you can't fake it or you can try, but it's probably getting picked up at least At least by somebody else's guts in that scenario.

56:00 Camille Clemons: Yeah, it'll just come off ingenuine and you won't be able to sustain it anyway. So, if you are not willing to be genuine, then I don't know that this will help. But know that if you are trying to be genuine and you're doing what you think is right and you're doing the little things, even if it doesn't feel like it's working, it is being noticed and keep doing it.

56:22 Scott Ingram: Nice. So, what about the flip side? What is it about the average sales professional and their approach that you think is a little crazy?

56:30 Camille Clemons: I abhor mediocrity, and when I say that, I cannot say it with enough conviction. I think that there's nothing worse than being mediocre, and we in sales are fortunate to have the roles that we have, and I noticed that, and I don't think I've ever wanted to just meet my expectations. The goal has always been to exceed them. So mediocrity for me is No, bad.

56:58 Scott Ingram: Fantastic. So along the way, what do you think have been the most important either decisions you've had to make or lessons you've had to learn to get to the level you're at today?

57:12 Camille Clemons: The most important decisions. Well, I guess 2. First is I don't give up. So I think it comes from my background of being an athlete. And just like nobody likes to lose. I don't like to lose. But if you lose, you realize, okay, get back up and try again. I mean, I've been told no. I've been hung up on. I've been denied entry. Like literally they just wouldn't open the door. I've been told I'm not the right one for the job. I've even been told to make a career move that I wasn't interested in. And at the end of the day, you're the only one who knows what you're meant to do. So, don't give up realizing your goals because of some external force trying to push you a different direction. Like, you're the one in charge. Just remember that. And I think that leads me to the second. And it's funny, when you realize your goals, and I think I've talked maybe a little bit about this, but I'm a reflective person. So, it's important for me to take a step back. And I think that this is literally happening to me right now. And if anything, if anything I can take away from it, it's, it's when you feel you've reached like your perceived pinnacle, you step back and you're like, wait a second, there's like another mountain range behind me. I need to go do that next. And realizing that what may be enough for some people, and it's a very respectable thing to be satisfied, it doesn't mean that's enough for you. And once you think that you've, you know, you've set the goal and you've achieved the goal, really all that's doing is saying, great job, you did what you were setting out to do. But what I realize now is I'm taking a different mindset with things. I'm not only thinking about what maybe I've done, but I'm thinking about not really setting a goal that I have to achieve where I can't go much higher than that because that's what I'm shooting for. I kind of want it to be open. I want it to be, I want it to be limitless. And I don't think there's a manual for what I'm about to do next. And I'm really excited about that.

59:20 Scott Ingram: Yeah. That, and that's, I think that's a perfect transition for us to just dig a little bit deeper into the career discussion that we started in the beginning. And I, first off, I mean, what was it that drove the change or drove the decision to make this switch, really, like, right as you've established yourself as the leader and the top dog in the game you were playing?

59:48 Camille Clemons: Well, I don't think the timing could be worse because it would be great to just be happy and maybe, like, get to go across the stage and collect the trophy and get the picture that I really was aiming to do for the past 4 years. I'm actually really disappointed that that's not going to happen. But I had the feeling and I made the commitment to myself that if I was going to go through this process, I was going to take it seriously. And the second it didn't feel like it was the right fit, I would stop. I don't have to make a move. I wasn't being forced to change. I wasn't being… there was no reason I had to make a move. But when I asked the questions and I received consistent answers kind of from… throughout the process from the people that I was working through it with, I began to realize that this is my next challenge. And I don't think it's for us to decide when opportunities come across our desks or our plates or whatever the case may be. But I do think that I've learned to recognize when they do, and this is the one that I needed to take the jump for. So, while I wasn't looking and I wasn't ready and I didn't think that I would be leaving or going anywhere, I also think that I did, in my mind, I did the right thing in entertaining the idea of something bigger.

1:01:15 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Now, I'm sure that there is advice and I'm sure that we'll put sort of a positive spin on this, but is there anything that your current leadership could have done to keep you around? Because I'm sure the folks that are leading sales teams, they worry about this, right? I've got this great person, they've excelled, they've gotten to the top. How do I keep them here and keep them producing in that way and not go off and do something else?

1:01:49 Camille Clemons: It's a tricky one because if I think about what my current leadership could have done to keep me, I don't know that there is anything. And I think it's a testament to how good they were. I mean, they let me go out and build my business. They let me go out and sell, and I was doing it for them, and I was doing it kind of in line with what they were looking for me to do. But it's not about them. It's about me. And while I think management teams can make mistakes along the way to lose their top talent, whether that's, I don't know, not respecting their opinion, or it's not listening to their concerns, or whatever the case, they're not paying them enough, whatever the case may be, I wouldn't say that existed where I am today. And I do think that that does exist because I have plenty of friends in sales who have some horror stories. But that's not my case. I wouldn't say that they've done anything wrong or that they haven't tried to keep me. But again, at the end of the day, this decision was made for me, not for them.

1:03:03 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So I think the takeaway there is at the end of the day, you have to look out for you and you know what your goals are and what you're trying to accomplish. And it's rarely one job, right? Typically there's a much bigger vision of where you'd like to go in your career or the impact that you want to make. And, you know, there's sometimes that, you know, I just can't do what I want to do in this current organization, and you have to go find another opportunity, or to your point, that other opportunity comes and finds you, and you realize, oh, okay, yep, maybe there is something a little bit different here, and I need to kind of tackle it from that perspective.

1:03:46 Camille Clemons: Yeah, and I think you, at least for me, I think this one came at the blind side, but I think that it's been a really interesting process over the past couple of years.

1:03:57 Scott Ingram: Yeah, I like that, and I'll have to go back and capture it. You had a very quotable quote about just getting comfortable with and being you.

1:04:07 Camille Clemons: Oh, because everyone else is taken, yeah.

1:04:10 Scott Ingram: Yeah, well, and the way you stated it, I think, was very eloquent, and the more you just kind of settle into what you're really about. Like, you do you. That's what this is at the end of the game. So, you know, let's provide a little bit of additional advice because I think you've got a great deal of perspective and I'd love to know what you would suggest to somebody who's maybe just getting started in their sales career today.

1:04:38 Camille Clemons: Oh, I've got lots of little nuggets. I think the 3 that I'll share are, the first is just be patient and appreciate every stage. And you're so lucky that you're in a sales role where you have the ability to make an impact with a firm. Enjoy it and learn from your mistakes. I mean, I think you set out, and at least I set out, I wanted to be in sales. That was my goal. And I think I did take the time to learn everything I could, not only about my industry, but about my prospects. And I designed a template and I went through a methodical procedure before every call and I made sure like I said, that I knew what questions I wanted to ask, and oftentimes I even knew the answers to them. And as I think I'll mention in a minute, I did that because I didn't know what else to do. To me, that felt like I was preparing, I was taking the safe route, and I was going in knowing what to expect, and that was a good thing. And then I guess the third thing is you can't overprepare. You could never be prepared enough to walk into a meeting. So, I would say that those are my top 3.

1:05:51 Scott Ingram: Perfect. And then we always look at this a little bit further down the road, right? So, somebody that's a little bit further into their career, whether they're struggling a little bit or maybe they're just, they're doing well, but they've not yet reached that first peak.

1:06:07 Camille Clemons: Okay. So, for someone who has been in sales for a little bit, I think my advice would be a little different. And I would say just to remember that the top is a fallacy. The top of one peak is really just the base of the next. And just remember to build on your experiences. And if what you've done already isn't working, try something else. And if that doesn't work, don't be afraid to ask for help. There are people out there who can help you with whatever your struggles are. And maybe now they're even more accessible than they ever have been because it's super easy to find them. If you want it badly enough, you will seek out a way to get it. I think that's really number one. Number 2 is, contrary to what I said maybe 4 seconds ago, you can overprepare. And I think as you settle into your sales career, you're gonna realize what you need to know walking into a room and maybe what's okay not to know. And then a lot does come out through that process, and that's where you do begin to build those relationships. And I would say number 3 is find self- in not having all of the answers when you walk into a meeting. Like I said, it's okay not to have the answers, and a lot comes out when you just, you don't know, and you ask interesting questions, and you really wanna know the other person's answer.

1:07:27 Scott Ingram: Camille, this has been a really amazing conversation, and what I always try and do in the last question that I'll ask you is try and make this actionable for the person who has now spent a pretty good chunk of time listening to us and listening to you and gaining a lot of advice. But what would you suggest that they now go out and do? And we try and put this in the form of a challenge that they can take on over the course of the next 2 weeks until the next episode and the next challenge becomes available for them to consider.

1:08:02 Camille Clemons: So, I think consistent with my comments throughout, and if you're still listening, God bless you. I hope that you can take something valuable away. But as far as action is concerned, I think it kind of doesn't matter. And I know that that's maybe not helpful until I break it down. But like, if you like to meditate, meditate. If you like to write, write. If you like to run, sew, cook, do those things. And if you don't know what you like or what you're passionate about, find something. Try one of everything until you find it. And what I'll say is once you find what energizes you and what keeps you getting out of bed in the morning and being excited about the day and kind of carrying your, your good mood and your spirit throughout the day is do it. Find it and do it and do it relentlessly and don't make an excuse to not do it. But remember, at the end of the day, you're the only one you need to answer to. No one's going to make sure that, you know, you're out there writing every day or you're going to the gym Like you have to own it and take responsibility. And for me, it was once I learned I wasn't waiting for an instruction manual to tell me what I needed to do next. And as, as my book, The Icarus Deception, will tell you that if you're waiting for a manual and for someone to tell you what to do next, you really just are dreaming of a middle management job. So it's really important that you go out and you find what your what your passion is and you do a little bit of that every day. It's kind of up to you to make the time, but if it is your passion and it energizes you, then you will find the time.

1:09:45 Scott Ingram: What a, what a perfect close. And you know what I have found that I love to do is I love to have incredible conversations with amazing people like Camille. And a lot of what we're building towards over the next few months are the Sales Success Summit Summit here in Austin in May. That'll be May 7th and 8th. There are a lot more details available if you go to top1summit.com. And, uh, we, I was just able to confirm that Camille will be there. Jeff Bajorek, uh, will be there. We're bringing together an incredible, uh, group of individuals. And one of the conversations that we will have on that stage that I'm particularly looking forward to is I'm I will build a panel to talk through how, just in a lot of details and from a lot of different perspectives from people who have been there and done that, how do you work through these career decisions? How do you put together a path for you and make a choice about, do you want to stay in an individual contributor role? Is that the right path for you? Or do you want to make the leap and pursue sales leadership and sales management or some type of executive executive position, and if you want to do that, how the heck do you get there? So, we're going to go deep into all of those things and everything else that is important to you in your own development as a sales professional, and obviously, we'll be capturing a lot of detail. I kind of put a pause on building out the programming, so if you look at the speakers and the presentations that are on the website right now, that's probably of what we'll ultimately have. But as people register, I've been asking them what's important to them and what is going to help them grow the most. And we will continue to incorporate those ideas and build out the agenda accordingly. So if you think that that fits you and your desires, I would love to see you at the Sales Success Summit. Again, if you go to top1summit.com and enter the code What am I using? SSS for Sales Success Stories. That will save you $150 on the spot. Obviously, it's, it's an event that we're building to. So the sooner you do it, the better that rate is. So check that out today. Camille, thank you so much for all of your time and wisdom today. This has been an incredible conversation and I've sure learned a lot.

1:12:18 Camille Clemons: Thanks, Scott. I appreciate you having me on. It's been a joy talking to you too, and hopefully we get to help some people out there. I am obviously available if you need to reach out. And like you've heard, helping people is one of my favorite things to do. So I am out there if you need some advice.

1:12:36 Scott Ingram: And what's the best way to find you out there, Camille?

1:12:39 Camille Clemons: I'd say currently probably LinkedIn, Camille Clemons. Otherwise, I am also on Twitter if you want to follow me. It's Camille E. Clemons. I apparently wasn't an early enough adopter for that platform. I did get my middle initial snuck in there.

1:12:55 Scott Ingram: So, there you go.

1:12:57 Camille Clemons: Other one of those.

1:12:57 Scott Ingram: Fantastic. And we will have links to all of those things in the show notes at top1.fm. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast. To be sure you never miss an episode and for an invitation to our Sales Success Community powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter at top1.fm.