29: Top Recruiter at Michael Page - Talene Savadian

0:08 Scott Ingram: You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve. To learn more, visit us at top1.fm. Here's your host, Scott Ingram. This episode is brought to you by Vidyard GoVideo. Check them out today by going to top1.fm. Today on the Sales Success Stories podcast, my guest is Talene Savadian, who is a sales and marketing recruiter at Michael Page in Los Angeles. Welcome to the show, Talene.

0:43 Talene Savadian: Thank you, Scott, for having me.

0:45 Scott Ingram: Well, I'm really glad to have you here. And for those listening, we are working through some, some interesting audio challenges as we are both in hotel rooms traveling for work on opposite ends of the country. So hopefully you don't experience any of the glitches that we are, and it'll be smooth running from here. Here on out, but Talene's conversation is the second part in our 2-part series here this month as we celebrate Women in Sales Month with the Enterprise Sales Forum. So, Talene, let's start like we always do on the show with the top 3 things that you believe have allowed you to become the top-selling recruiter at Michael Page.

1:26 Talene Savadian: Well, Scott, I think number one would be consistency. Followed by determination, followed through with perhaps resilience. The industry itself is… can be very difficult, especially running a full desk where one is in charge of both the client piece, which is the business development sector, as well as the follow-through of the candidates. So, I think those 3 go hand in hand, but are definitely a core… are the 3 core pieces to my success that I've achieved here at Michael Page. And in terms of consistency, it's something that's consistent with all aspects of the position, even when it comes to the basics. In fact, that's the most important. So, being consistent with the business development, being consistent with recruiting for candidates, sourcing, keeping up to date with knowledge, the knowledge base of the industry, and overall never giving… never forgetting what took you and got you to the success pieces and continuously doing those That's what's going to continue helping you achieve your growth that you are seeking.

2:33 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Great, great stuff. And I love that you gave that perspective on being sort of a full desk recruiter and the fact that you're doing both the business development, which is sort of the sales. Well, I guess it's all kind of sales at the end of the day, but, but developing opportunities to then go source candidates for those. And I think the, the challenging part of that type of recruiting is it's not all sales, if you will, right? You don't sell it and then somebody else delivers the solution. You basically have to then turn around and go find those candidates and fulfill what you sold. So, maybe talk a little bit more about that and tell us a little bit more about who is Michael Page as an organization.

3:18 Talene Savadian: Sure. So, I'll start with Michael Page in a little rundown of their history, but it is a global publicly traded search firm. It started about 40, 41 years ago out in the UK, and we have a global presence today. In the US, we have 9 offices and 2 in Canada, and then I also… from our Los Angeles office, and I cover the consumer goods sector with a specific focus of children's, juvenile, and toys consumer electronics divisions. Within those, I recruit solely for within sales marketing, anywhere from your mid to senior level recruitment. And as far as your initial question is concerned, yes, I do run a full desk. I'm in charge of both finding my clients that I work with as well as the candidates which I present to my candidates. So, from A to Z, both my clients and my candidates deal directly and solely with me. However, that does not preclude that should my… a colleague of mine need a, let's say, an introduction to a client I'm working with or a candidate for one of their positions, we all share candidates at Michael Page. It's not commission-based, so it makes it a bit more of a friendlier, I guess you can say, environment where it's the benefit of the client all in all.

4:38 Scott Ingram: Excellent. Now, how did you get into sales and into recruiting in the first place?

4:43 Talene Savadian: I was actually recruited. This, you could say, is my first sales position, true sales position I held. And yes, I was recruited into this position by an internal recruiter at Michael Page.

4:56 Scott Ingram: Perfect. Of course. That's so fitting.

4:59 Talene Savadian: Yes.

5:00 Scott Ingram: So before we talk about Talene's performance and results, which are incredibly impressive, I want to thank the exclusive sponsor of this episode. And that is the tool formerly known as ViewedIt, which is now Vidyard GoVideo. Thanks to Vidyard GoVideo. The rest of this episode will be completely uninterrupted, and I hope you'll help me thank them and help yourself in the process by getting their free Chrome plugin that allows you to create personalized videos to include in your email outreach to really stand out and get significantly higher response rates. Just go to top1.fm/v, that's the letter V, or go to any page on top1.fm and click on their ad. So Talene, tell us about how you've done and just sort of quantify quantify your results for us?

5:48 Talene Savadian: Sure. So I've been with the business for 2 years now and I've done $1,350,000-ish totally. And as far as year to date, I've done about $750,000-ish.

6:04 Scott Ingram: Perfect. And what does that mean in terms of your position in the organization?

6:10 Talene Savadian: So I did, There is, I mean, individuals either are brought onto the business as either an associate consultant or a recruitment consultant. I was brought on as a recruitment consultant, and then thereafter there's 3 more levels, and then you become a manager. So, I guess per se by title, today I am a manager.

6:33 Scott Ingram: Excellent, and I believe you told me that you are the number 1 recruiter there globally.

6:40 Talene Savadian: Yes, so across, globally speaking, but for Michael Page, I mean, they do quantify just because they are a global brand regionally. So, for all of North America, I hold the number 1 spot, but yes, globally speaking as well, I am number 1.

6:58 Scott Ingram: Fantastic.

6:59 Talene Savadian: So, excellent.

7:01 Scott Ingram: So, you know, from an accomplishment perspective, I mean, it sounds like you're relatively new to sales and to recruiting, although have very, very quickly risen up the the ranks, what are you most proud of from an accomplishment perspective?

7:17 Talene Savadian: I'm most proud of developing the industry which I have. I was, when I was recruited, of course, into the position, I was placed actually with supply chain and procurement. So, I began recruitment there. I did that for about 2 months, and then they switched me over to the sales and marketing division. As they needed to grow that side of the business. So, then it was kind of taking a step back to take, which I didn't know, 2, 3, 4 steps forward. So, then I began in sales and marketing essentially January of 2016. So, yes, it's been a very fun ride, but it's been very challenging in the sense of understanding what exactly I'm going to be recruiting for when it comes to specific industries. So, yes, I was placed within consumer goods, but consumer goods is very broad. And I found it would be best suited for me as I look to develop a career and have passion for what I do if I recruited for something I was personally passionate about. So, I mean, I developed the industry and the niche for Michael Page, and I guess here I am today.

8:28 Scott Ingram: And you got to sort of steer that and direct that yourself in terms of where you wanted to focus and how you wanted to niche down?

8:35 Talene Savadian: Correct. So, I was placed within consumer goods and within sales and marketing, but they thankfully did provide autonomy and the tools for me to be able to, of course, once I proved myself showing the worth of this is the space I want to specialize in, and they were very supportive and helped me build a business in that sector.

8:59 Scott Ingram: Awesome. So, what is, I could probably guess, but what is the most challenging part of your role?

9:05 Talene Savadian: The resilience when it comes to business development, because it's something, well, I guess that's one piece of it, and then there's the resilience, resilience I guess all in all, because we're dealing not with a product, and yes, it's a service, but it's a service that it's a human we're dealing with on both ends. We're trading a human, we're trading a service that needs to be agreed upon on both ends, and anything can go wrong at any given point of time. So, that's one aspect that can be difficult. And then the other aspect of resilience comes into play when you're continuously faced with rejections of, no, I don't want to work with you for this reason, or no, I don't want to leave my company for this reason or that reason, but not giving up and continuously, you know, pushing forward until everything falls into place. And it takes some time to realize that, but once you do, you definitely see the your fruitful tree.

10:00 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And how are you managing through that and sort of dealing with, I mean, I can imagine, especially on the placement side of things, I mean, this is very, very human, very emotional. A lot of things that are out of your control are probably impacting your results. So how do you stay resilient in face of that kind of experience?

10:23 Talene Savadian: Sure. Well, I won't lie. I mean, there's definitely, it's like a roller coaster. There's ups and downs at all times. But I think, I'm personally, I mean, I never give up. So I don't think there will ever be a day where I just close the book and say, okay, I'm done with anything in my life. Perhaps I might want to steer a little different in direction or specialize further in a specific something. But something that definitely keeps me going is when I hear, whether it's from clients or various candidates or receiving emails, just recognition and sense of like, oh, I was at a trade show and I heard about you, or this client has referred me to, things like that, I think definitely make me see the brighter side on more gloomier days.

11:07 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So just, it sounds like a lot of it is just that consistency, kind of persevering, staying, staying in the space and knowing that continuing to maintain that focus and be consistent in what you're doing, like ultimately you're going to get the results, even though there's, there's certainly going to be disappointments and rejection along the way.

11:25 Talene Savadian: Sure, sure. Yeah. So, there's the personal piece of me telling myself that. And then, there's also the, you know, the outside piece of when I do hear, you know, I can… anyone, I mean, can go months without, let's say, I don't know, either it's picking up a job, doing a placement, anything that can be putting you down or saying, okay, maybe I'm not meant for this job, or maybe I'm just not good at this. But it's something that internally I tell myself, you know, even if this doesn't happen or this doesn't fall through, it'll happen. It'll soon happen. And also hearing it from… being reinforced within the industry, whether it's from a client or candidate reaching out to me, introducing themselves, wanting to work with me. And it does show that clearly they heard of me and my capabilities from a positive aspect. So, it's inspiring.

12:23 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. Are there other kind of routines or habits that you have just to maintain that positivity and that outlook and mindset?

12:32 Talene Savadian: I definitely speak to my candidates on a daily basis, the ones I'm working with actively, and then others that I've met at one point or another. Timely here and there, either I or them would keep… we do keep in touch, but also trade shows, I believe, are a great meeting point for everyone, whether it's clients or candidates. And then from a client perspective, I respect everyone's decision whether they decide to work with me or not, but I still keep in touch with them, even if it's just stopping by the office and saying hi, or dropping an email, or, you know, proactively just giving a call one day, you know, seeing how everything is going.

13:11 Scott Ingram: Got it. So, so it sounds like really just getting reinforcement from the, the, what you've created. I mean, the, the results of, of your solution, which is these great placements and you've, you've certainly probably changed people's lives and careers through that. So that, that's gotta be motivating.

13:27 Talene Savadian: Definitely. Yeah.

13:28 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Awesome. So tell us about kind of your day. How, what does that look like? When do you get up? What kind of walk us through how you, how you stay organized from that perspective?

13:39 Talene Savadian: Sure. So, um, my day actually starts maybe around 9:30, 10-ish. Um, my alarm goes off around 9 o'clock, and from there, first thing I do is of course check the emails, uh, respond to any urgent needs, fires. And then as soon as I arrive in the office, if there's anything I have to address further, um, or calls I have to make for whichever reason, I go ahead and adhere to those, and then I kind of separate my day into client activity and candidate activity, focusing on the client activity first and then followed through by the candidate activity, only because the candidate activity, of course, candidates are working. They are in active roles, so it's convenient for both them and I that I speak to them either after hours or during perhaps a lunch break or usually after 3, 4 PM Pacific.

14:35 Scott Ingram: Got it. And talk about the back end of your day, because your day runs pretty long.

14:40 Talene Savadian: Yes, it does. So, I work with a lot of international clients, or even those on the East Coast. So, I do usually, I've stayed longer, but usually maybe either around anywhere from 1 to 3 AM, I'll be found at the office. I'm kind of the night owl, so we kind of have a joke in the office, but I stay and make sure the office stays safe and clean, and then they come in the morning, and then I come over in the afternoon area.

15:12 Scott Ingram: Nice. And how much of that is driven by just sort of you and your style and personality, and how much of it that is just because that's kind of the nature of the business and where your client are and kind of the way the time zones work?

15:28 Talene Savadian: Oh no, it's like 100% driven by me. I think it's an anomaly for sure. Whoever I say this to, I mean, is completely shocked. I even have clients sometimes asking, what hours do you work? And it's because, you know, if they email me, let's say at 7:00 AM, they might not get a response right away. They'll start getting responses starting at 9:00 AM, but if they email me at 2:00 AM, 3:00 AM, 5:00 AM, 6:00 AM. I mean, they'll receive a response within minutes. So, um, I think it's something that works well, uh, for both parties, but yes, it is driven by me.

16:05 Scott Ingram: Well, and it's somewhat…

16:06 Talene Savadian: I mean, if it's not a hearing, if someone asks to speak at a specific time, of course, I mean, I will speak at that time, or, I mean, you know, meet at a specific time, but generally that's the time I usually work from.

16:17 Scott Ingram: Sure, sure. Well, and, and, you know, we work at completely opposite times. You know, I, I, I'm up at probably when you are calling it a day. You know, I'm up at 4:15 or 4:30, but I find probably the same way you do is in those off hours, right? When most of the world is asleep, you're just not interrupted. You're able to really crank and accomplish so much because you don't have all of the distractions and disruptions that everybody else has during a regular workday.

16:47 Talene Savadian: Definitely. I mean, that's a really good point. I think that everyone always asks me like, how do you do it? You know, I check out at 3 o'clock. I just need to go home. And it's, for me, it's… I can physically be in the office, but I'm so much more efficient when there's no sounds, there's no one talking, you know, it's quiet in the area. Our office space is an open office, so it can get a bit distracting when I'm speaking to clients and, you know, they can't perhaps hear clearly, or I can't focus or concentrate 100%. But when it's completely quiet, it's, you know, knocking down your checklist and just getting it through.

17:21 Scott Ingram: So, Talene, is there a way that… I mean, beyond the completely time-shifted day that you're working, is there a way that you tend to kind of organize and optimize your week or your month and the way that you approach things from that perspective?

17:39 Talene Savadian: Beginning from a month perspective, I always know, let's say we're about to, you know, get into November, so I already know what I'm going to be closing in November and what I'm going to be ending the quarter with approximately, give or take. So I always have that. There's of course room for new business development always falling through at one point or another, but things that are for certain, I always know before the month even begins. And so I'm always thinking, you know, not necessarily, okay, what am I going to be closing this week, this month, but more so what am I going to be closing the following month, this coming quarter. So, I'm always assuring my pipeline of both from, again, from the candidate side and the client side is always active and, you know, I have things that I can be working on because that's something that if it's nonexistent or dry, the job just gets, of course, boring and not very attractive for someone like me who I need to stay busy.

18:45 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And so it sounds like that's really just a function of how long it takes for you to go through a complete cycle and get somebody placed. So, you know, something that you're closing this month, that was based on work that you did 2 or 3 or 4 months previous, and you're just looking further ahead going, okay, do I have enough pipeline to know that next February I'm going to have a good month? Because that's dependent on what I do today.

19:11 Talene Savadian: Correct. So, it's the actual recruitment process can be as short as 4 months, but it just depends on clients and their travel schedules and whatnot. But from the time I first reach out to a client to the time I place with them, it can, minimum, 3, 4 months, yeah, I would say.

19:30 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Is there a particular sort of goal-setting process that you're doing or a way that you are making sure that you've got enough pipeline to know that in 4 months from now you're gonna have enough business have a really solid month or quarter?

19:45 Talene Savadian: I mean, I try to close about 2 to 3 positions on a monthly basis, and I don't really quantify it in that sense. I just always assure I'm kept busy. So, for example, if on a weekly basis I'm not sending a shortlist for a new position, I know something's wrong, rather than saying, okay, this position and this position are not going to be closing. I base it based on the basics of the position, sending out that shortlist or doing your business development piece, or do I have strong candidates, things of that sort.

20:25 Scott Ingram: So, what are you measuring and thinking about? Because, I mean, we talked before, I mean, you don't really put a lot of emphasis on your activity. I've certainly talked with a lot of other recruiters and and people who have that background where their world in those days was, you know, they were making 100 calls a day, things like that. What are you using to sort of measure and know that this was a good, successful, productive day, for example?

20:53 Talene Savadian: Yeah, so I quantify, and I guess, yes, there's KPIs. You know, we have to be on the phone for X amount of minutes. You have to reach out to X amount of people. But I've never found that something that, I mean, is useful or motivating to me. As I said earlier, I'm very self-driven. So, for myself, it's more so, you know, I need to close this job this week. I need to speak to this client this week. I need to find 3 candidates that I can send in my shortlist to my client today. So, it's more so, you know, I will do as many calls as it takes to get those 3 candidates. I will, reach out to, you know, whoever I need to, to speak to whoever I need to. It's more of that mentality rather than, okay, I need to do 600 minutes, so I have 200 more minutes to go.

21:45 Scott Ingram: Got it. So, so much more results-oriented, right? Like, I'm just gonna get to the goal, whatever it takes to get there. I'm not gonna worry about how many calls or how many minutes or anything like that to get there.

21:56 Talene Savadian: Exactly. Yeah.

21:57 Scott Ingram: Okay. So what does your information diet look like in the several minutes that you're not working in a given day? What do you read? Listening to, and watching?

22:07 Talene Savadian: I'm sleeping. I'm sleeping. I'm playing games, board games, or, you know, Scrabble, different types of games, or, you know, maybe watching a movie. Of course, there's the social media aspect, you know, scrolling through Instagram, seeing different pictures. I love pictures. But yes, watching maybe the news here and there, but not too often. But I have news on my Instagram, so yes, I do check that. It's more so relaxing and trying to shut down and not think, let my brain rest a little, because I mean, the job really takes over your life and you're constantly, you know, I can be, okay, I'm going to go to bed, and then 20 minutes me trying to sleep, I remember, oh my gosh, I forgot to do XYZ, or let me make sure I send this email. So it's really, I need to shut down sometimes mentally.

23:03 Scott Ingram: Got it. Yeah, that totally makes sense. So what about tools and apps that you can't live without as part of just your day-to-day process? Where do you spend most of your time from a technology standpoint?

23:16 Talene Savadian: In terms of which apps I use?

23:17 Scott Ingram: Yep.

23:18 Talene Savadian: Well, Waze for sure. Getting around, especially in LA, trying to find the shortest route. And then I guess I would say Instagram, Snapchat when it comes to the picture social side of things. And then music. I love my music. So YouTube, SoundCloud when I'm trying to find new music. And then of course, you know, your Ubers, your Lyfts. And let's see, I don't know, traveling. I love to travel. So Airbnb for various places. Yeah, that's pretty much it.

23:55 Scott Ingram: And what about, I mean, we talked a little bit about this before, where does LinkedIn fit into your day and your process?

24:04 Talene Savadian: Oh, so LinkedIn is huge. So yeah, I didn't mention that when you asked about the apps just because I don't use it on my phone. For some reason, I don't like the app version of it, but LinkedIn is 100%. I mean, I don't think I would have reached the success I have today without LinkedIn. I find all my candidates via LinkedIn. I do a lot of industry knowledge gaining via LinkedIn. It's a great tool. I mean, both in all aspects. I mean, entirely I reach out to them, I speak to them, and you're able to understand and understand the marketplace and understand various candidates via their LinkedIn page. Of course, very from a general and brief perspective, but you're able to do so without having their contact details or anything of that sort. The rest is upon your initiation.

24:54 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and from… I mean, you must look at more LinkedIn profiles than anybody I know. What do you see, right? What makes for a good LinkedIn profile? And on the flip side, are there kind of red flags or things that you see where you'll basically dismiss somebody out of hand because something you might see on their profile?

25:19 Talene Savadian: Sure, so I mean, of course you want to have a professional picture. That's first and foremost. I mean, that's very, very important. Titles in terms of positions you hold, you want to make sure those are clear. So if, for let's say, I'm looking for a marketing manager, you should have marketing manager listed. If I'm looking for a VP of sales, you should have… if you're a VP of sales, you should have VP of sales, the region, perhaps some accounts or at least a specific channel which you oversee. Things, very basic brief details that one is able to, you know, from a recruiting standpoint or from a potential employer standpoint, view your LinkedIn page and quickly assess, you know, is this individual qualified for me to reach out to? But, you know, of course you have to respect confidentiality. You shouldn't necessarily at times be putting specific numbers, specific accounts if it's confidential. Out for the public to see, but I believe basic information should be listed for sure.

26:21 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. Good input. And what I heard there was really just concise, easily readable, and kind of skimmable, and also kind of keyword-rich for the things that you've done that are representative of your experience.

26:38 Talene Savadian: Yes, correct.

26:39 Scott Ingram: Talene, talk about, I mean, what is your style or how would you describe your approach in general?

26:46 Talene Savadian: I'm very casual, I believe. Professional, of course, but I believe I'm very casual regardless who I'm speaking to. I make the conversation very comfortable, and at times it can even be very brief, you know. If I need to speak to you but you're not available for whichever reason, I'm very transparent in the sense of, you know, what the situation at hand might be. If I have to meet a specific deadline in the sense of turning in a shortlist to a client, I will advise the candidate of the situation and have them, you know, make the decision thereafter. I don't say, you know, I speak to you now or never, but I do let them know this is the situation. If you wish to be a part of the first shortlist, I can, you know, have a quick 5 to 10 minute conversation with you just to assure the major points are there, and then we can have a follow-up conversation. And then on the client side, I'm very, very transparent I've had a client previously, I've advised to have them retract an offer from one of my candidates that they had presented to, just because I felt from various activities that it wouldn't be the best representation and best candidate for them. Of course, I had it be their decision, but I kind of offered my viewpoints to them because it's a client I work with very closely and You know, they, they trusted my opinion and they retracted the offer. And then shortly thereafter saw exactly what I was mentioning. So I believe that definitely goes along with my transparency and, you know, transparency, professionalism, and just a casual environment that I am able to… and comfortable, I think would be a better word instead of casual… that I make for both the clients and candidates I work with.

28:39 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Well, and it also sounds like what I'm hearing in you talking about that is you really care about the result that both your clients are getting and that your candidates are getting, right? You want to make sure that everybody's going into a good situation.

28:54 Talene Savadian: Of course. Of course. I mean, and we don't here at Michael Page work on a commission basis. So, for me, whether I close a specific role or not, It really doesn't affect my pocket. It's more so I want to work with this client continuously. So I want them to know that I, like, I care for them and I want them to make the best hire possible, whether that is with or without my candidate. And now, of course, I wish I'm able to present them with the best candidate because that's what makes my job fun, that I get to work on various positions. But I'm very, very honest, and I think that's gotten me to kind of the success which I have achieved. They feel comfortable, they trust the various advices or comments that I do share with them.

29:42 Scott Ingram: Okay, we need to go back to something you just said. I was gonna ask you sort of what it is that motivates you, but did you just say you don't work on commission?

29:51 Talene Savadian: Yes, we don't work on commission.

29:53 Scott Ingram: So how does money play into the motivation impact of that? 'Cause typically that's one of the big, big drivers for those of us, in sales is it's that paycheck. So, what's motivating all of this extra work that you're doing? Because you're certainly not working a standard workday by any stretch of the imagination.

30:13 Talene Savadian: It's me. I mean, I'm super crazy. That's why recruitment is a very tough industry to be in. But Michael Page entirely, I mean, I think a lot of recruitment agencies do work on commission, but Michael Page does not offer commission. Instead, they offer the base salary that you receive. Plus a bonus. So, it's a quarterly bonus, of course, based on your billings, you get a specific percentage of it. So, that gets into play, but it's not commission. I guess I just want to… I need to be working at all times on a role. I cannot just not be working on something, not have anything, not be working on any candidates, shortlists, things like that. So, that's what drives me and motivates me, because then I don't want to go to work. I don't want to, I don't want to be spending all the hours just staring at a computer screen when there's no activity going. So, those are the factors that personally drive me. I know I'm very obsolete in that sense, but of course, money is very, you know, empowering at times to have, but it's, I wouldn't say it's the main driver for sure.

31:22 Scott Ingram: Well, what, what is, I mean, what's the main driver? Because I think, I think what I heard there is you just, you can't be bored. You need to be, you need to be working. But what, I mean, what's the one thing that's really driving that?

31:34 Talene Savadian: I want to, I want to build, uh, build an image, build a brand around myself. And I guess hopefully one day become, become something that people will recognize me and remember me for. Um, now today it's recruitment. I don't know what it'll be 5 to 10 years from now. Hopefully, you know, if it maintains and stays within recruitment, I mean, that will be very… it'll make me super happy. But I mean, even today, like I said earlier, receiving calls and referrals, recommendations from people within the industry, that speaks to… that empowers me, that keeps me going, that inspires me that, okay, I'm doing what I, what I wanted to do. So I'm going to continue doing it so it can be on a bigger scale.

32:22 Scott Ingram: Nice. Perfect. So, I mean, perhaps along those lines, is there something that you believe that you think the average sales professional or the average recruiter would think is just crazy?

32:35 Talene Savadian: So, yes, that's a… there's a lot of things, but I think one thing that would definitely stand out is when I was moved into the sales and marketing division again, 3 months with Michael Page, I was placed within consumer goods, and what was thriving at the time for the LA market for sales marketing consumer goods was the food and beverage space. And I just didn't find that as something interesting or something I wanted to be a part of. I loved consumer goods. It's because I can, of course, relate to it, but I wanted to find an industry that I truly was passionate for. So, yes, I did try to do the food and beverage side, but I wasn't truly passionate and committed to growing that business. So, I found my specialty and niche, things that I truly can personally, you know, crave and want to do and want to learn more about, which is, you know, the toys, consumer electronics, children's space. And hence, I was called crazy for, you know, missing out on a potential bonus for not meeting goals or, you know, working independently and not working with the team. Or working off of a foundation, having to start from scratch, but it was things I was willing to risk to make my time as a recruiter an enjoyable one.

33:51 Scott Ingram: Nice. You know, goes back to… I don't know that I've ever shared this on, on the show, but one of my own sort of guiding principles is if you don't love what you do, it's work, and work sucks. So, you know, similarly, I've always tried to be in a position where I'm just I, it goes back to passion at the end of the day, right? You've got to have something that you are personally interested in. Otherwise, I mean, if you're just doing it for the money, I find that, well, frankly, I don't think I've had any of those people on the show because they're not the number one person, right? Everybody who's been on this show, um, is, is number one, top 1%. And I think in large part because they care a lot and they're either just personally fascinated or passionate about what it is that they're selling. So I think that makes a ton of sense. I wonder if on the flip side, is there something that you feel like the average recruiter or the average sales professional believes or does that you think is crazy?

34:55 Talene Savadian: Yeah, I think the KPIs again. I think I can be maybe shunned upon for saying this, but I don't believe in the KPIs. The mentality of what an individual has for those KPIs, the, you know, I need to, I need to do $600 to get this, I need to make this many calls to get this, I need to do XYZ. It should be very, very results-oriented, and I think it should be, hey, you need to place this to get this, focus on doing that, rather than the very get-go. Of course, that should be taught and whatnot, but it One should always be, in my opinion, thinking, you know, I need to find… I need to place this job, so I need to do as many calls as it takes to find the best candidate, rather than, okay, I have 200 more minutes to go and then I can leave today. I don't think that's the right mentality.

35:47 Scott Ingram: Well, I mean, that makes a ton of sense, right? 600 uninspired minutes probably aren't even as good as 60 very passionate Talene minutes.

35:59 Talene Savadian: Yes, yes. No, it can get boring, of course.

36:03 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. So what about, I mean, have there been really important decisions that you've had to make to get where you are today? Or maybe it was that decision we just talked about where you chose the toys and consumer electronics space.

36:20 Talene Savadian: Yes, that can be one. That definitely, I mean, of course, that's That's the leap of faith that I decided to do, and it got me to where I am today. I mean, who knows? Perhaps if I stuck with the food and beverage, or if I chose something else. Again, I think it goes down to the consistency. But I don't think I truly love the industry I recruit for, and I love the people I speak with. And I believe that is what what's gotten me to the success. But the transparency piece, Scott, is very very. Very important, especially in the industry which I'm in within sales. And it's… I'm dealing with humans on both sides. It's not an object. It's not a… it's a service, but it's a human. It's a human I'm dealing with. I have to… I cannot… there's no lies that can be held. There's no covering the truth in this aspect or that aspect. I mean, on both ends, I always advise both parties to be completely transparent with one another, ask whichever questions they have, Truthfully, you know, compensation sometimes is a tough topic to discuss. I help navigate that conversation, but I always tell both parties, you know, I presented you at this amount. I understand you're looking for this. Have that open conversation with them. Same with the client, you know, this is what the client… this is what the candidate is making. He wishes to be around this factor. Feel free to openly discuss that with them if you need to. Then that's just one aspect of transparency, but you, I believe you need to gain the trust of a client to have continuous business with them. Um, or else it's going to be a one-timer. And of course we already discussed me and one-timers. I don't really like doing that.

38:06 Scott Ingram: So, well, and I wonder, has that always been your philosophy? Have you always thought at that or did you have some experience that, that really shaped that approach?

38:16 Talene Savadian: I mean, I think, of course, initially when I began, you want to, you know, especially me when I started off all by myself in the industry I did, it was just like, oh my gosh, I'm finally closing this, or oh my gosh, this client wants to work with me, so yes, I'll work with you on these terms and this and that. So no, it wasn't always, I didn't always have the mindset that I have today. But I never… I've always been transparent as much as I can. You know, I have to sometimes respect personal… if I'm speaking to a candidate and they don't want me to disclose a specific something in terms of, you know, if they've been on leave and why they've been on leave, I have to respect that for confidentiality purposes. But I do share with the client, you know, the candidate has been on leave but has asked to remain confidential. If you wish, you're more than happy to, you know, ask them that themselves, ask them yourself. As you are asking me. But yeah, I think my mindset has tweaked a bit, but in terms of transparency and consistency, I think those have always remained the same.

39:29 Scott Ingram: Yeah, excellent. So, let's switch gears a little bit here. I'm curious about, you know, what advice would you give to somebody who's just getting started in their sales career today or starting as a new recruiter, what would you suggest to them so that they can get off to a really great start and lay a foundation like you have to get to, you know, very significant results in a very relatively short period of time?

39:59 Talene Savadian: Sure. I would say 3 things, and I share this with newcomers at Michael Page as well. But definitely, first things first, I always say don't focus on KPIs. Again, what we discussed, So, I won't get into too much detail there. Secondly, find something which you're passionate about. So, regardless what industry you're placed in and what roles you have to recruit for, be passionate about it. Find, you know, if you have to do, I don't know, cosmetics and you have to do marketing positions, find… there's so many marketing divisions. Find a couple niche positions that you're actually interested and curious about and try to be the best you can be at that. And then lastly, of course, don't give up. There's a lot of rejection you're going to be facing, and even if initially perhaps, you know, you get responses, don't take everything for granted. You have to continuously keep going and just stick to your basics. Keep… don't give up. Always push forward and think bigger. Think bigger than you thought today and will think tomorrow.

41:10 Scott Ingram: Awesome. And what about… has there been advice that you've gotten, whether you have mentors, or maybe there was a particularly good training program that you went to. What has helped you the most along your journey?

41:26 Talene Savadian: I think internally I was, I think again, because in the beginning it was very frustrating for me because I was doing everything I could and more to achieve success, but it was difficult, of course, as I was building a brand new division, and of course being new to recruitment and the industry as a whole. Initially, when I had a couple, you know, trans situations with whether it be with clients and candidates, I was very excited and super happy. You know, young. Okay, yes, I'll I'll work with you on these terms. I'll work with you. I'll work with you on XYZ, and it's really you know mentored in the sense of. I understand you're excited. I appreciate that. But you have to understand that you can't just… it's a give and get. It's a compromise. It's a negotiation. And I think that's definitely helped me value myself, my work, everything aside from, of course, the business. But as a recruiter, as an individual, I think that's taught me a lot of self-respect. And it's been… it was tough, of course, initially. You know, having to reject various situations because of circumstances of terms per se. But I think that definitely got me a long way.

42:53 Scott Ingram: Yeah. You know, I'm glad, I'm glad you mentioned that. You know, it's funny, I see so many examples of… I'll call it like blind revenue, right? Where, oh, well, you know, these terms are potentially even bad for the company. Yeah. Like, this isn't good, but, you know, it's a deal and we get to say that we brought in X thousands of dollars or X millions of dollars, but it's really just frankly bad business versus holding the line and negotiating what is appropriate and valuing what it is that you sell. So it sounds like you've really taken that to heart and learned how to say no at appropriate times and find good, legit business.

43:39 Talene Savadian: Yes, yes, and it's hard. It's very hard initially. At least for me, it was very hard because, you know, you don't think you ever have to say no in sales. It's, you know, if you hear a yes, it's exciting. But no, you have to say no at times for yourself and for others and stick to your answer and move forward.

44:01 Scott Ingram: Yeah, love that. Awesome. Well, let's bring this all together. So, the way I like to end the episodes is with something actionable, so the sales professional listening to this has something that they can do. And since we release new episodes every 2 weeks, I like to, if you could suggest a 2-week challenge that the person listening to this could take on, something, some action they can take to improve themselves and improve their results in sales.

44:31 Talene Savadian: Sure. So one thing I would say, Understand, if you don't know, I mean, understand the core basics of whichever position you hold and the principles to which, you know, you were trained upon on your first couple of days. And make sure if you are not, you're following those. And be consistent is number 2 with whatever your core trainings and what… core trainings plus what you have learned throughout the way. Be consistent with that. And don't be afraid, I guess, 3, don't be afraid to speak to people. Don't be afraid of rejection. Pick up the phone, call people, send an email, and respect the decision that comes from it. But those 3 combined over time, again, consistently will bring results some way or another.

45:20 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And I can't let it go. I can't end on that because I want to know, I mean, you're doing a lot. Of outreach, you're having a lot of conversations and interacting with a lot of people, particularly, well, I guess across the board, not just business development, but all the outreach you're doing. Are you finding one tactic working better than others or some combination? And what I mean by that is, is it the phone calls? Is it LinkedIn? Is it email? Is it some combination of those? What are you finding most effective today?

45:54 Talene Savadian: It's a combination. It's a combination for sure, because I deal with people all across the country, all across the world, different time zones, different ages. So, everyone has different habits, and you have to be flexible and be willing to, you know, reach out to people on all different channels and platforms and see which works for different people. But I mean, LinkedIn, I already stated, I use religiously. I think that's my number one way to get a hold of candidates or clients. Emails, of course, you know, it's a part of everyone's life today, I believe. And then phone calls are very important. And then there comes the, you know, the face-to-face meeting. Everything can be great, but I always think of meeting someone actually face-to-face typically seals the deal in sense of trust between the two parties and You know, so yeah, I can't, I can't pick one, one specific avenue. I use a combination, but LinkedIn for sure. I mean, I take full advantage of LinkedIn.

47:03 Scott Ingram: Love it. Love it. Talene, thanks again for taking the time to talk with me today. And thank you for listening to our entire conversation. In the next couple of weeks, I'll be making a really significant announcement. Announcement, and those who are subscribed to receive our newsletter will be the first to know and will have an opportunity to take advantage of the very best offer. So to join, go to top1.fm and enter your email address, or here in the US, you can text TOP1… that's T-O-P, the number 1… to 444999. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast. To be sure never miss an episode, and for an invitation to our Sales Success Community powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter at top1.fm.