194: Belief, Authenticity, and Closing the Biggest Deal in Company History - Verkada's Sarah Thomas

0:08 Scott Ingram: You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve. To learn more, visit us at top1.fm. Here's your host, Scott Ingram. Today on the Sales Success Stories podcast, my guest is Sarah Thomas, who is the top strategic account executive at Verkada. Welcome, Sarah. Welcome to the show, Sarah.

0:32 Sarah Thomas: Thanks, Scott. Happy to be here.

0:34 Scott Ingram: I'm really glad you're here. I know it's been a long time coming. You and I have been threatening to do this for quite some time, but let's jump right in and get to the heart of the matter like we always do. I'm all about that immediate value upfront. So what are the top 3 things that you believe have contributed the most to your success in sales?

0:54 Sarah Thomas: All right, let's go. Let's dive in. And thanks for your patience. I know we have been Talking about doing this for probably 8 months now. Okay. Number one, I would say I'll kind of roadmap it first. Number one, kind of how God made me, how I'm wired. Number 2, I'm a drink the Kool-Aid girl and I'll unpack that. And then number 3, having a growth mindset and a willingness to ask for help and be around supportive people. So the first one, I really feel like God made me to want to help, to be a helper, to enjoy people. Back in the day, I'm probably dating myself. I don't know if StrengthsFinder is around anymore, but Woo was my number one strength and it was winning others over. And I just truly really enjoy sales, really enjoy engaging with new people. I think it's fun. So that makes success and continued success easy to keep going when it's a really tough job at times. The second one, drink the Kool-Aid. I have been at 3 different places in my career officially, and I feel like I've been blessed to be at places where Instruitive Strategically, so places where I believe in the mission. I believe in what we offer, what we do. The first, I wasn't officially in sales there, but I went to Elon University and I graduated and worked there for 9 years. And I got to live that experience for 4 years as a student and as a grad student and really believed in what we were doing there. And it was easy to go out and talk about it when I worked in admissions, fundraise when I worked in fundraising and athletics, and then recruit employers when I worked in employer relations. And then my next role, when I moved over to Callbox, Got into sales officially, same thing, a company that was doing some things that honestly I didn't understand. It was call tracking. I went from higher ed to selling software and I was like, what the heck do we do? But I quickly learned that what we do, we were at the forefront of the technology, which I really loved, and at the top. And there were other competitors that were really just kind of following what we were doing. So I really believed that we had something that would help. And then same thing at Verkada. Our mission is to protect people and assets in a privacy-centric manner, and our stuff is really, really good. And again, we're one of the leaders in cloud technology in that space, in the physical security space. So I think having a belief in what I sell is really important to me, and I've been able to have that at all 3 places. And then the third is a growth mindset. I think about really some big successes the last year or so and couldn't have done it without the people around me, for sure. And being able to lean in and ask for help and just not have the ego. It's there, I'm sure, but letting go of that.

3:35 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

3:35 Sarah Thomas: Yeah.

3:36 Scott Ingram: I love all of them, but I think that one, just leaning into who you are. I love StrengthsFinder. I don't remember the last time I did that, but I always thought that was such a great exercise and a tool to get to know yourself, which I think is oftentimes a challenge. And anytime you get to lean into who you are, Gosh, if there isn't a bigger theme on this show, I don't know what it is. And you said one of my favorite words too, which is belief, and that believing in what you're selling and believing in yourself too, right? I think it's both sides of that. It's not just having that belief in what you're selling and being able to transfer that belief to your buyer, but believing in the way that you're doing it and the way that you're running your sales process and the way that you are, to tie in your 3rd theme, Like collaborating with the rest of the team and recognizing this is not a solo sport.

4:25 Sarah Thomas: Absolutely. And I love StrengthsFinder too, because it does hone in, to go back to that, it hones in on strengths, right? Versus there's so much nowadays about what's, what are our gaps and where can we get better, which is so important too. But I think leaning in and not trying to put a round peg in a square hole all the time, that's sometimes how I feel. One of the hesitations, I'll be frank and candid, you've interviewed a lot of amazing people and there's so many voices out there in our industry. And there's times where I'm like, my voice doesn't look like that, or my process doesn't look like that. And I've, I'm starting to lean into like, I've been successful just the way I am. And so while I want to get better, of course, I don't want to beat myself up about the things that maybe I'm not number one in, or maybe I'm, that's not my focus.

5:14 Scott Ingram: Okay. I thought we would end up doing this at the end. I was going to spring this on you, but you already got it because I know you shared, okay, Scott, look, if I'm honest, part of the reason for the delay is just that, like, imposter syndrome stuff. You've been to the summit, you've listened to the podcast, you know what this is about and that feeling of, but who am I? And the reality is everybody has their own way and their own process and finds what works. So what helped you get through that? Because this is a thing. There's somebody listening to this right now that needs to be on the podcast. That has been a top performer year over year, and they're gleaning the insights, but they're not calling Scott to get on the show. What are you telling them? Because I know you want to hear from them too. So what helped you finally break through that, man?

6:00 Sarah Thomas: Good question. Let me go back to when I went to Verkada. I felt like it was a big risk, and I was betting on myself. Really, truly for the first time. And that felt good. And I don't think I realized that until I did start having this, some big successes from a number standpoint, right? From a sales standpoint. And I also reflect on the people that I like to listen to or be around, people like you that are authentic and vulnerable and even in everyday life, like friendships, And people we work with and family and being able to be yourself and be vulnerable. I feel like there's a, there's a, it's attractive. It's attractive. And so I was thinking, yeah, there's, my voice might sound different. Maybe it doesn't, maybe it's similar, but just knowing that, that there's different ways to have success and we shouldn't discount who we are and really how we're wired. I don't want to overly preach on this podcast or get too spiritual, but God really, I believe God made us in his image and he made us uniquely each of us. And there's a parable about the talents, right? And so it's, I don't want to waste what he's given me and I want to steward that. So I would say, I would encourage people to think about having intrinsic value right where you are, just as you are at the top of the mountain or in the valley. And I don't know, I'm attracted to people that are vulnerable about those struggles and about how they got there and about how their morning routine isn't perfect and how I'm not doing cold plunges every day. Lord Jesus, that's a whole nother podcast, but.

7:43 Scott Ingram: I love that. I love that. I know you missed this year, but during the summit this year, and I don't remember the context of what was going on, but I think Jack was asking a question, making a point, Jack Wilson. And he shared one of the greatest compliments ever. And he was just talking about there are certain people that he knows who are always the same, no matter what role they're in, whether we're being friend, whether we're being, Scott's interviewing me on a podcast, the way Scott sells. And he said there's 5 people. And he listed a bunch of them, which was maybe the most humbling part, because some of the other people he included in this list were also some of my favorite people. But being included in that list and just, it is that authenticity piece, right? I'm this person when I'm with my friends and I'm this other person when I'm with my colleagues and I'm this other person when I'm with my clients. It's just a lot easier if you're just you all the time.

8:35 Sarah Thomas: Absolutely. I think there's a piece, I think it's exhausting. Life is hard enough, isn't it? It's just hard to, there's a lot on our plates, there's a lot to do, there's a lot to navigate, there's a lot out of our control, there's a lot of tough circumstances. And I think it's leaning on peace and letting that guide us and being authentic. I will say too, one of the pieces of the imposter syndrome was me feeling like, I'm sure we'll get into this, but closing a really large, complex deal. And I'm thinking, oh, I don't know if I could have done that. Would I have closed that if this person didn't step in to help? And it's abs… who cares? Who cares? Because it's not, oh, you get extra points if you didn't bring your boss in as much as you needed him, or that's exactly the opposite. It's, I'm proud that we had all the way to obviously the C-suite involved. So anyway, that was something that I think I just kept getting nervous about was, man, I just, there's so many people involved in this and it feels odd for me to be the one to talk about it. But I think that's exactly what people need to hear is that's how this went and it's real and it's not a, it's not a solo sport.

9:47 Scott Ingram: Yeah, for sure. At the end of the day, you're the one coordinated. You're the one that's decided, hey, I need this person's help. They'd be the right person to tell this person on the client side this particular story or talk through this challenge or whatever that.

10:01 Sarah Thomas: All right.

10:02 Scott Ingram: Let's contextualize. This is so much fun. Talk about your role specifically and how you got to number 1.

10:09 Sarah Thomas: Yes. So at Verkada, there's 3 buckets I'll break it down into. There's our sled from a sales perspective, our sled team. So going after state and local government and, and education, right? So it's the sled team. And then you have the fed and state team is a newer bucket for us. That team's gonna crush it. I'm so excited. And then my team, which is the corporate team. And so within our team, we have 3 divisions, mid-market, enterprise, and global, just simply based on number of employees at the customer. So that's how we break it down. So I, for the first year and a half or so at Verkada, was on… still am… Enterprise Corp. So I go after customers in Tennessee and Kentucky. It's my territory who have 2,000 to 20,000 employees across multiple industries: healthcare, retail, manufacturing, logistics, financial services, whole nine yards. Really anyone. Our addressable market is insane, which is one reason I was excited about Verkada. And so we have this great enterprise team. And whenever I, I worked my butt off, I'll just say that like Verkada is tough. It's high expectations. It's a lot of smart, driven people and worked my butt off, had an awesome team here. And we were the Southeast team and then we became the Mid-Atlantic team or not Mid-Atlantic, sorry, the, the Team Appalachia, which we were trying to figure out who we were, right? Because we had Some Alabama, some Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia. It was kind of a mix, North Carolina. And so awesome team, awesome leader, and worked my butt off. And then last year, actually, I think it's right around the time I was at the summit was when we really started getting into a large deal, engaging with a new partner, a partner that… so Verkada also sells 100% channel-based. So we're We have a large sales, you know, organization at Verkada and we're pounding the pavement and we're out there. But from a transaction standpoint, we've got, we've got to go through the channel, which is very strategic, of course, because we know that those folks have awesome relationships in this industry, have been doing it for a while, and there's the hardware component. And so we need them to go be the hands and feet and do those installs and deliver, right? Deliver what we're making. Which is the hardware and software. And so that deal started and it was a lot of selling the partner in addition to selling the customer because the partner hadn't done a ton of large projects with us. And I think there were a couple of times I had to, I felt so bad I had to step out of the summit because, and I'm sure hopefully your audience knows when I say summit, like what you do, but we can do a plug for it. But there's sessions, awesome sessions going on all day and I had to step out a couple of times. So that's when the deal started and then we were able to close the largest deal in company history at the end of January of 2026. Yeah, I don't know. There's a lot to talk about, but hopefully that, that, that sums it up. So really proud and pretty amazing, pretty epic, broke a lot of records and obviously had a lot of support.

13:24 Scott Ingram: Yeah. From a partner perspective, because that certainly complicates the sales motion, which came first? Was it the client first or the partner first?

13:32 Sarah Thomas: This client had engaged with us years prior to me being at Verkada. They ended up going with a different solution. And so some of it's, some of it's timing, right? As we know, sales is a lot of it's timing. So our company had engaged the client previously. I had engaged some different partners and actually did talk to a franchisee and So it was a, it's a little bit of both, but for the big opportunity, it truly like, there was a main partner that was involved that had a relationship with the client, a longtime relationship. And so that was key, having that partner really bring us in. I'll call it an RFP. It was an RFP type of process where the partner was leading it with the customer. And so thankful that they brought us in to give us a shot, but I think we had some name recognition prior to that as well. So it's both, I would say, but big partner presence in this one that brought us in.

14:33 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. I'm always fascinated by that. Again, it adds another layer of just complicated. I like to ask, particularly when it comes to big enterprise deals, and this for you, I know was the biggest deal in company history. When you think about the amount of time that you needed to spend with the client, with the partner and then just your internal wrangling? How does that kind of generally break down for you?

14:59 Sarah Thomas: Man, I hate to say it depends, but I will say there are some customers that our partners bring us and they've got it all kind of wrapped up, buttoned up. This is, this is rare, but they need us to come in and maybe do a demo, do a site visit with them and get some product in their hands. So we definitely like to get Some of our… by the way, Verkada sells physical security, not just cameras, but alarms, door access, visitor management, and air quality sensors, among other things. And so, we really like to get it in their hands. So, because we have a large sales presence, a lot of times we will source it as well. So, our sales team goes in and spends a lot of time with the customer and figures out the right partner either to bring in, or maybe the customer already has a trusted partner. So, it's definitely a mix. For this big one, You're right. It was a lot of selling. I would say selling the partner as well, like getting them comfortable with Verkada, getting them to trust us, getting them to loop us into conversations. So I think there was a little bit of, they held some of the cards there with the customer, but we quickly became a trusted advocate and customer felt comfortable coming to us as well. And we got some product in there and I think that's what kind of finally did it. We internally, same thing, was the, it's the largest deal in Verkada history. And so it, I just say that to say that I think internally we were figuring out what this looks like as well, right? Just what are we willing to do from a discount perspective? What are we willing to offer? What can we offer? What's, what's our strategy here? And so that was challenging, but fun at the same time. Yeah.

16:39 Scott Ingram: And then in whatever ways you can, just quantify your results for us.

16:45 Sarah Thomas: Yeah. That deal specifically was north of $20 million in a single transaction. And I think my attainment, we look in quarters at Verkada, but I wrote down, cause I knew you may ask. So that quarter for me, you ready for this? That quarter, my attainment was 2,709%. So 2,709%. And I'm proud to say I also generated 2 qualified new logos that same quarter. So we also are incentivized to get new logos. And then for the year, I think I was at 789% because of some nuances when the deal closed, we had transitioned to a new fiscal year. And so there's some nuances with how hardware shipped and things like that.

17:35 Scott Ingram: Awesome. Awesome. That is so cool. And you hinted at this a little bit, but I always like to ask about the origin story and how people get into sales in the first place. How did that happen?

17:45 Sarah Thomas: All right. How much time do we have?

17:48 Scott Ingram: I booked these for a really long time.

17:49 Sarah Thomas: Yes. I was thinking about this question. It's one of my favorite stories to tell, but I get very long-winded. So just give me a wink. Let me start with someone once said to me, just give me the baby. Don't give me the pregnancy. So I'm going to give you the baby. So, I officially entered into a quota individual contributor role with a quota in, I would say it was like 2015 or 2016. Okay. So, that's when it all started. And it was at my last company called Callbox, privately held software, call tracking software. We sold into mostly the automotive space, a little bit of healthcare. But let me back up. So, I talked earlier about the 3 places I've worked. And how you know I drank the Kool-Aid. So at Elon, I was going to be a teacher, and I always I love telling that I was going to make $26,000. Actually, I did make $26,000 my first job, and that was an admissions counselor. So I didn't go into education. So I studied education, physical education, and health. I was going to be a PE teacher. Little bit of a jock, Scott. Little bit of a jock, and love sports. And so. Ended up working at the university in admissions for 2 years. I'm 22 years old at the time. Some would call it, it's sales, right? Selling the university, going out for on the road. They gave me a car. They gave me a cell phone. I was like, I'm rich. $26,000. I have a car, I have a cell phone and a computer. Like I was going to be a teacher in North Carolina with my summers off would have been nice. But yeah. So that was really fun. And then I ended up moving over to the athletic department and did some fundraising. Again, some would say. That's sales.

19:26 Scott Ingram: Sounds like sales.

19:27 Sarah Thomas: Sounds like sales. And was able to get my MBA while working there pretty much almost free. And so ended up then going to the business school where I think I made $50,000 and I was like, I'm a millionaire. And so that opened a door to then work in career services. Okay. So I'm in my late 20s and I'm working in career services at Elon and the COO of a software company. Comes to recruit students to come work at Callbox. It was called Century Interactive at the time. So Patrick Elverum comes and I share this because this is a pretty, oh, it was just such a pivotal time for me in my life and career in that I felt like God really was calling me to go work for this guy in Dallas. And so here I am at Elon. Late 20s, and Patrick comes, and I had a friend who had just passed away from a rare liver cancer. And I remember being pretty vulnerable, emotional, and for the first time maybe in my life, shared my faith with a stranger. And not in a Bible-thumping kind of way, but more of a… I just said, hey, I'm a Christian. That's why I believe this. That's why I feel like this. And he then reciprocated that. And so I just felt called and he goes, hey, let's have a conversation. And he asked me, he said, what's the biggest risk? So an interview, right? We have a call and I'm like, what the heck is call tracking? Like marketing analytics? What are you guys doing? I have no idea what you do. To car dealers? What? We're selling to car dealers? Like, I don't, I'm not a car person. I didn't really feel personally connected there. But he said, what's the biggest risk you've taken? And I felt pretty convicted in that moment because I felt like I had played it safe. And I remember saying, coming to Dallas to work for you guys. And he hadn't offered me the job yet, but I'm like, coming. Let's be assumptive, right? Let's close it. So I like went down for an interview and I, it just all felt right. So I get to Callbox in 2014 and it was really cool because they said, let's just get you on the bus type of thing. We don't know what we want to do with you. We don't know how we're going to use you. But let's get you on the bus. And I was like, awesome. Love it. I think I was the 50th or 54th, like, employee. And it was profitable startup. So much fun. Felt like a family. After about 6 months, and I will say this, I got to shout out these folks. My boss, my first boss there was probably 15 years younger than me. Maybe. Toni, she was awesome. Maybe 10 years, something like that. I don't want to age myself too much. And then second boss, same thing, probably about 10 years younger. And I remember navigating that a little bit, but I'm like, just being humble and let's go and let's learn because Callbox was a place where it didn't matter your major, didn't matter what you did before. How well did you do? Did you perform? Meritocracy. Let's go. Anyone can succeed if you want to step up and succeed. It was awesome. And so about a a year and a half in, I think is… yeah, so the middle of 2015 or 2016 is when I think it was Reid, our CEO at the time, sat me down and said, let's get you over to sales. And I was like scared because the whole quota thing. And then I freaking loved it. I moved over to sales. And so I was a consultant, so I was helping customers just use the software. And then I actually ended up managing consultants for a year and quickly realized Like, it's the thing I like about sales is it's very clear. The metrics are clear and you have this barometer. And I think as I was managing these consultants, it was hard to say, you're, I think you're doing a good job, but you, I don't know that you're the right fit. I had to fire, I had to let someone go as well. Talk about growing chest hair. I don't want any chest hair, but someone said that they're like, it'll grow chest hair. I'm like, you can say that to the guys. I don't want any chest hair. But no, it was powerful anyway, moving over and realizing, oh man, this is where I belong and I've never looked back. That's a long story, but…

23:43 Scott Ingram: That is so fascinating. Were you part of, because I think it was the year that you were at the summit and we were at, let me contextualize that to your point. Maybe not everybody listens to the show. So 2 things about this podcast and the summit. One is, because I don't call this out clearly enough, I only interview number one, top 1% level individual contributors on this show. That's the rule. You wouldn't believe the amount amount of outreach that I get from people who want to be on the podcast. And my criteria is ridiculous. I tell everybody no, because everybody wants to be on podcasts for different reasons, but they're never qualified. And then the summit is a 2-day event here in Austin. And the only people I put on stage are the folks who've been on the podcast. So we were together and I pride myself in just the totality of that experience, because it's just a really special thing. So we were out at barbecue and And there was this collection, there must have been 4 people who, they were all teachers. Were you part of that?

24:40 Sarah Thomas: I think I remember that.

24:42 Scott Ingram: It was just such a crazy epiphany and it made so much sense looking back on it going, you know what? So much of what we do is educating people and having to be extraordinarily patient and all of these things.

24:58 Sarah Thomas: Yes, I think, and I want to say someone's wife was there and was like in higher ed maybe. Or worked at a university anyway. Yeah, I vaguely remember that for sure. And I think about my VP Pete, our VP now at Verkada. His wife is a principal and I believe she's… yeah, she's administrator in, in education. And so she's always elbowing him like, yeah, you got to hire more teachers. You got to hire more teachers. So it's true. I think heart for helping, educating, teaching. Yeah, sure.

25:29 Scott Ingram: I love the heart for helping piece of that too, right? I think that's such an overlooked… so many people have just this wrong conception about what great sales is, and they think of it as this like very competitive, very selfish thing. No, it's actually super selfless if you do it right.

25:44 Sarah Thomas: Yeah, I don't want to over-index this, but have you heard of the Enneagram?

25:47 Scott Ingram: I've heard of it, but I've not fully gotten into it. Do you get like a number out of that or something?

25:54 Sarah Thomas: It is, it's a number, and I'm not going to like fully say it's the best thing since sliced bread or endorse it or anything, because I think a lot of these things there's… I actually don't know the full origin of it, but it's been helpful for me in the sense that it's 1 through 9 and it's basically it's more focused on your core motivation. So why, why do we do things? Why do we act the way we do? Not necessarily our behaviors. And so a 2 on the Enneagram is the helper, and that is This very much resonates with me. The 3 is the achiever. So usually your number has a wing to it. And so I think I wing 3, which is very aligned to sales and being competitive. And 3s are a little bit more status-oriented, whereas 2s are more, I find value if I help you, if I'm productive, if I'm helpful, I feel loved if I can. That's where I find my value, which can be, can get unhealthy. So any of the numbers, right? None of them, none of is better or worse than the other.

26:59 Scott Ingram: There's no right answer.

27:00 Sarah Thomas: There's no right answer. It's more of, hey, when I'm in a healthy place, I can actually see others' needs really well, which bodes well in sales. And when it's unhealthy, it's people pleasing, not taking care of yourself, doing way too, way too much for others, maybe being walked on. It just manifests differently. So I feel that at my core and just, I feel very loved and valued when I can help. In a way. And so sometimes it's difficult for me not to go into the dating world, but it's funny. I, it's a long story, but I actually dated someone with a terminal illness and he's a super, super confident guy with a lot of swagger. And I kept thinking that it was a blessing at the time that he was in, not that he was in the position he was in, but I felt like I could there was a lot of caregiving needed. And anyway, I just remember distinctly, this is, we can edit this, we can edit all this out, but I remember distinctly feeling like it was nice to be able to be in a position to help him. Whereas if he was fully healthy, I don't know if it would've been the same type of feeling.

28:12 Scott Ingram: Interesting. Interesting.

28:13 Sarah Thomas: Yeah.

28:14 Scott Ingram: Let's talk about the career piece then and just connect the dots. So, an accidental salesperson, right, in your journey. If you could go back to the beginning of that, is there anything you would have done differently? If you could be more intentional about it and know that, hey, I want to go down this path, what would you have done differently?

28:33 Sarah Thomas: First of all, gotten into it way sooner, for sure. I would have dived in way sooner. I would have not shied away from a quota. And I think I would have… I'll say this, being an education student, being, being in the education department, I didn't get to do the internships in the corporate world, if that makes sense. Like, I didn't get exposed to that as much. I think I was exposed to a lot of education, which was intentional. And so I did a lot of things at the university, a lot of clubs and sports and things like that. But I think I would have wanted to be exposed to more of that earlier. And then even shadowing. I love the idea. I'll say this, at Callbox, one of my ideas was to really get to know the business we were selling into, which is automotive. I kept saying, let me go. I want to go. I wonder if Callbox would let me go work at a dealership for a month or a couple of weeks or whatever. I never ended up doing it, but I would say that's what I would have done earlier is go and dabble, go shadow, just get involved, get… not be afraid. Yeah. Get involved earlier.

29:44 Scott Ingram: If I had infinite resources and time, I've had this concept for a show forever. Somebody needs to steal this from me. Me. I'm just going to throw this out there. I've wanted to do a show called Ride Along. Ooh, and it could either be all sales, but it could be all kinds of different stuff. I love the idea of just full-on immersive day in the life. And I think if you can do that, to your point… and I… oh gosh darn it, I can't remember his name… one of my favorite concepts that I picked up from this show from a guy was I think customer knowledge is so much more important than product knowledge. Screw your product. If you can understand your customer, you can understand so much. And I think the idea of if you can get yourself in that type of a situation of do a ride-along with your customer, get in their passenger seat in some way and just, can I watch this entire day in the life? What are all the things that happen? What are all these different meetings? What are you thinking about? How are you measured? All the stuff.

30:46 Sarah Thomas: Yeah. Because we talk about it, right? We're like, you got to know your customer. You got to know your customer.

30:50 Scott Ingram: Yeah, but what does that actually mean?

30:51 Sarah Thomas: What does that mean? And then also learning the… this is a personal thing I have that I'm really guarded about sounding, pretending like I know, like the corporate speak stuff, like really gets me. And it's, oh, you got to speak their language in the C-suite. And I get that, but I'm like, I'd love to be around it so I can really, versus just let me ask you about it or let me read about it. Let me AI, let me pull up your your documents so I can read what, you know, what your corporate initiatives are and your strategies and all that and your deliverables. But I, yeah, I would like to live it. I would like to be in the trenches and live it and really be around it. We have, I have a customer that's in marine logistics. And so I got to, there you go, on the boat with them where they have a really specific problem that we can, we may be able to help them solve that has like real revenue tied to it or real cost savings. So that's That stuff is fun.

31:46 Scott Ingram: I love that. I love that. The show's called Sales Success Stories. Maybe we should talk about a sales story. What's your favorite sales story?

31:55 Sarah Thomas: Okay, I'm gonna go back to Callbox and technically, because as I shared the first year or so, I was not officially in sales there, but I love this story because I think, I don't know, I guess I just remember it so vividly. So Patrick, our CEO, COO at the time at Callbox. I'm probably a month or 2 months into the job. He like calls me over to his desk. So this is when we were, we were all in the office and it was a great office culture. CEO, COO at standing desks, like right next to you, no walls type of thing and low silos. And he goes, hey, I need you to fly to North Carolina and go save this account. And I'm like, got it. Meanwhile, I'm like, what do we do again? Like, I'm still learning. Like, what exactly do we do? And I fly to North Carolina. Normally I would've been overdressed. I put on like a, I like packed a black dress. Meanwhile, again, software company, everyone's in jeans and then automotive, they're not super dressed up, but I was coming from career services at a university. So I'm like in suits and whatever. So I'm thinking, okay, I gotta look really nice. Figure this out. And it was so exhilarating and scary. I get there and the general manager of the store, I think he owned 2 stores at the time and a competitor. So a woman who now I would, we're not friends, but I would probably call a friend. She's great. And we were competitors at the time, but like everyone loved her and she did so great in North Carolina. I felt like our product was better, but she was boots on the ground in North Carolina, had all these relationships. So she was crushing us because of that. But I was like, our stuff's better. Like, why are you using this stuff? So I go in and just had to figure it out, Scott. Like, I, I'm in this dress. Everyone else is like in, I don't know what, whatever car guys, car sales guys wear. Not, not suits. Some of them do, I guess. It depends. But the general manager, I hope I can say this. I know I feel like a man can't say this, but it was like this really fit, good-looking, tall general manager who was a little intimidating and in a suit. He was always in a suit, apparently. And so very intimidating. And so I just remember going in and winning them over somehow. I think I was there 2 days and there were moments where, again, I'm learning our product, like I don't have the answers. It was just more about showing up and figuring it out and being, being an asset to them and helping them. And I remember fixing something. I got on the phone with our support again, because I don't know how to fix this. So I'm like, real time, let's solve the problem. Oh, you have a problem with this piece of the software is not set up right. It's not working. Let's fix it. Let me sit down with your, your business development manager. So he owns, he manages the team that makes phone calls, books appointments, all of that. And so I get to know him and I'm like, hey, What's the deal? And just build rapport. So it was exhilarating. It was awesome. I came back and yeah, the sales rep was that I was quote unquote against was just like a rock star. And so it just felt good too, to go in and be like, they're not canceling. They're not going to cancel us. We're going to keep them. So that was something that I just remember vividly. I felt so good after. I felt so confident and affirmed and just valuable. There you go. I was helping. I was valuable.

35:33 Scott Ingram: And was part of it just that being in the field and with the customer and kind of that side-by-side, we are going to figure this out, like we are going to be successful kind of a thing?

35:43 Sarah Thomas: 100%. 100%. And this is not new to you or your audience, but being in person, I think, is crucial. It's something that at Verkada, we hit the road a lot. We talk about a lot. And I personally would rather be in person as much as I can. Yeah. Yeah.

35:58 Scott Ingram: It's so interesting, just all the changes of late. I feel like the in-person thing has certainly not returned to the level that it was pre-COVID, and now it's back to being a thing. And even pre-COVID, I think this was true because there was still lots and lots of remote, particularly from a sales perspective. But I think that in-person face-to-face can be such a differentiator. And it's becoming that way again.

36:25 Sarah Thomas: Yeah, it's been powerful to be able to do so much remotely. Absolutely. I think it's definitely helped us move faster in these last… gosh, I can't believe COVID was 5 years ago.

36:36 Scott Ingram: That's crazy.

36:37 Sarah Thomas: It's crazy. I guess at Callbox we were doing a lot of remote stuff and I think that's… customers would be perplexed when you would say, oh, I'm in… because I was in Dallas at the time. So you're in Dallas. Everyone was actually in Dallas, whereas with Verkada, We do have folks in office hubs, but our enterprise team and global team is remote, typically in the territory where you're selling into. And it just adds that, that layer where you can, I don't know, I think it accelerates things. It accelerates trust.

37:08 Scott Ingram: Totally.

37:09 Sarah Thomas: And it, for sure. So I think we're, I don't know, I haven't really thought about, I guess we're not fully back to that. There's still so much remote.

37:16 Scott Ingram: We're definitely not back. And one of the things I struggle with is I used to go see my customers and they were all there together in an office, and now everybody is so spread out. That's actually a way that I find that I can differentiate is, can I be the excuse that everybody comes together? One of my big clients right now, there's been a huge reorg and one of my champions just got put in… his kind of span of control doubled. He's got a huge opportunity. And with that, part of what I'm positioning with him is, hey, This is our opportunity to bring everybody together. And then I'm also positioning us saying, we are part of your team. We need to be part of this whole thing. Let's do that. But it is definitely not back the way it was because it used to be just ready-made. Oh, all of these people work together in this office. And if I go see them, they're there. Now that's not a given at all.

38:08 Sarah Thomas: That's a really good point. And I talked about covering Tennessee and Kentucky, and actually after we closed the big deal, my account… I became strategic. And so I have 13 accounts now, basically. I fought to keep 13, but because of the time needed. But when you just reminded me that like even my champions, some of the C-level aren't even… some are at the headquarters, some are not. And so navigating that, and people ask like where I travel, and I'm like all over the country just because a headquarters is in Tennessee or Kentucky doesn't mean that's the only place I am.

38:44 Scott Ingram: Absolutely.

38:45 Sarah Thomas: And we're, we're trying to leverage executive briefings as well in our offices. So that's another thing we're trying to do is get people to talk to our product team, talk to our executives, see it in the office as well.

38:56 Scott Ingram: For sure. Sarah, what are you most proud of?

38:59 Sarah Thomas: Man, it sounds cushy because it's not a concrete one specific thing, but I would say leaning into hard things, especially the last couple of years. I'm trying to take more risks, trying to, as cliché as it sounds, like fail more because I don't, I feel like that's a, I've put myself in a comfort zone of, yeah, I know how to do well in these areas. And so, I want to push myself more. So, just leaning into some hard things or new things and just seeing it as There's a scripture in James that talks about when, whenever you go through trials, like consider it joy because you're learning perseverance, you're getting better, you're getting stronger, and God gives you the strength you need. So I think leaning in and seeing hard things as like an opportunity, I guess. Again, it sounds cushy and like cliché, but really, truly, I think that's something personally I really need to just get more uncomfortable.

40:02 Scott Ingram: So what's an example of that? What's the biggest risk you've taken in the last number of months or the hardest thing you've pushed yourself to do?

40:09 Sarah Thomas: Man, one of the things, I know this isn't sales related, but I go back to that relationship with the person that was a friend of mine and I was scared or shied away from it because of the illness. So leaning into that, I feel the Lord taught me a lot there. And then I would say also I started an Airbnb, my old house. Now looking back, I'm like, oh, it's not that… it's going well. It wasn't that big of a risk, but just leaning into doing that on my own and managing that and juggling it. And honestly, I think going to Verkada, I think felt very scary because I was leaving something really comfortable and where I was successful. And I talked to a bunch of people before I went, and a lot of the sentiment was like, You can win really big here, but it's hard. It's really hard for these reasons. I'm just proud that I didn't shy away from that and stepped into that because look at where I am.

41:07 Scott Ingram: Awesome. Awesome. In the sales role, what do you find to be the hardest thing or what do you struggle with?

41:15 Sarah Thomas: Man, this is where we get vulnerable. The things that I get embarrassed to say that I struggle with are things that are probably so easy for a lot of people. The organization, the keeping it all together, organized, like I really struggle with that. We have a lot of resources at Verkada, which is a great thing, but it's, am I throwing it? It's Outreach, it's ZoomInfo, it's LinkedIn, it's Salesforce, it's Clari, it's Scratchpad that we had at one point. It's just so many resources and Sometimes it's hard for me to like really stick to a system and be organized. And then I would say also focus. I really struggle in the deep work area. I really get distracted. I really struggle to spend time on some of those important but not urgent things.

42:11 Scott Ingram: My guess is those go together. I think when you, and at some level organizing is about simplifying. When there's an embarrassment of resources or an embarrassment of riches kind of situation, right? I think there's so many things, the distraction level is really high and it's really hard to find that focus opportunity.

42:31 Sarah Thomas: People may not laugh at this like I do, but there's an organization called the Center for Creative Leadership in Greensboro, North Carolina. And so when I was at Elon in North Carolina, I was able to take advantage of some professional development courses and resources there. And there was one, a guy who was one of our coaches. And he said to me, I just, this makes me laugh. He goes, do you take people breaks? I think he said it almost verbatim. Just, do you take people breaks? And I was like, oh, all the time. I thought he meant, I literally heard, do you take breaks to go talk to people?

43:08 Scott Ingram: And he said the opposite.

43:10 Sarah Thomas: He meant the opposite. And I'm like, dang it. This is my whole entire problem. Here we go. I'm like, absolutely, yes. I, I'm always around people. I get energy from people. And it's no, step away from the people and do the things that you don't want to do.

43:24 Scott Ingram: That's an introvert question because an extrovert is like, I take breaks to talk to people.

43:28 Sarah Thomas: Of course I take breaks to talk to people. Who doesn't?

43:31 Scott Ingram: Anyway, that is so interesting what a goober I am, but very extroverted.

43:35 Sarah Thomas: And I find it hard to step away. I do find it hard to step away and focus.

43:39 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

43:40 Sarah Thomas: And that's just, I think also just some other habits in life that I need to kind of, I'm not, you'll probably get into this, but like routine. Another thing that made me anxious about this podcast. I was like, oh, I'm not going to have the right answer.

43:53 Scott Ingram: Oh, it's the next question. So we will go there. You know what's interesting though, for me that really surprised me and I'm really getting more curious about this again because of just all of the AI stuff. Right? I've always been a tech guy. I've always got tools and stuff around. And I thought, I can't believe this coming October. So this is the 10th year of the podcast. So we'll be celebrating the 10-year anniversary.

44:20 Sarah Thomas: Congrats. Yeah.

44:21 Scott Ingram: The evolution of this thing is mind-blowing to me, but I remember thinking going into it that I would find some tech wizards who had figured out how to leverage technology to just run circles around all of us. And the reality is actually the opposite that I find way with a much higher degree of frequency because the most productive people, their tech stack is calendar, email, notebook. And I think that's the secret. The secret is I'm not getting distracted by all of this stuff buzzing, dinging, and interrupting me. They're much more old school and able to focus because we don't have all of this stuff. And so I wonder if we might see another round of that with all of the AI stuff. Okay, that's cool that you have all of these tools, but how much time do you spend with your brain being creative and figuring stuff out for yourself rather than getting some weird canned answer that is slightly hallucinated?

45:25 Sarah Thomas: Yes. And also, why hasn't anyone figured this out yet? Why can't any… I guess AI assistants, but no, it still has that You're right. I think a couple things I want to talk about. I did a silent retreat, so I want to talk about that. But I'm a Slack calendar, and I'm gonna hold this up, but no one can see it but you. Remarkable notebook. Do you know what a Remarkable is?

45:49 Scott Ingram: I do, because Mike Simmons is like a walking billboard for that thing. But talk about it because it is interesting. And what's funny is it showed up on like a Christmas gift gadget list article that I literally just read today is, okay, that's interesting. This thing keeps popping up around me.

46:05 Sarah Thomas: I'm like, let's stop sending people like Yetis and whatever. Let's send them a reMarkable. But you said Mike, Mike probably uses it 10 times as much as I, like, I don't take advantage of the full value of the reMarkable, but I will say for me, instead of having 8 million notebooks and places to go and I tend to be a note-taker and I don't know if that's a doodler thing. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I'm like, yeah, it's a sign of intelligence, right? Whatever they say that sounds good. I'm like, yeah, that's why, that's why I do it. But I had notebooks all over the place and I think it makes me at least, I've got it in one place. I've got notes in one place. I can take it with me. I can journal on it. I will say I don't leverage, there's the ability to then link it to send an email or create a PDF or take your handwriting, convert it to text. I don't take advantage as much as I should, but I love it for the simplification of having everything in one place, being able to quickly… it's probably the place I'm the most organized, honestly. So I would say having my reMarkable, but I don't… yeah, I'm like, there's not really much else I could, like, couldn't live without, I think is one of your questions. Yeah.

47:20 Scott Ingram: I was going to say, since you're here, is there anything else from like the tech stack perspective we need to like address?

47:26 Sarah Thomas: We use Slack a lot at Verkada, but being able to be where our customers are, a couple of my key customers use Teams, so I was able to get access. So that's really helpful to be able to chat and communicate with them on Teams. So that's just more of a communication. I am an old school, get on the phone, call, even text. I would say too, one of my, the biggest things I think from a sales perspective and process is we have a team like SDRs, we call them EDRs, enterprise development reps who make calls for us. And I'm like, get their cell phone every single time, ask for it. It just does multiple things. One shows you how serious they are about talking again. And number 2, if that's where they're, if they're comfortable with receiving a text like that, maybe where you can get their attention or where they live. So anyway, I'm a big fan of just like old school, but I think My calendar is… that's probably… I can't live without the calendar.

48:21 Scott Ingram: Let's lean into this text, Slack, Teams thing, because I think there's 2 pieces here. One is understanding people's preferred channel is so powerful. As much as I can, I try and understand, are you a text person? Are you a LinkedIn person? Are you an email person? Are you a Slack? What is your kind of native environment is one thing, and that can vary depending on this next piece. But I think the other piece is we were talking about being in person, and it used to be so common if you had a big client you worked with, you'd have a badge and you'd be able to walk their halls. I think the new walking the halls is having access to their Slack or their Teams. Like, what is that collaborative workspace that they natively live in? Being in those spaces is magical in terms of being able to get access to the people that you need to get access to.

49:18 Sarah Thomas: Yep. And in fact, we even open up… some of our partners are on Slack with us too. So that helps the communication because you can send a quote back and forth that I don't know what it is. Sometimes it's just where you're living and it's just quicker than an email, even though it's the same thing.

49:34 Scott Ingram: Isn't that crazy?

49:35 Sarah Thomas: It's so weird.

49:35 Scott Ingram: Email's now the slow way.

49:37 Sarah Thomas: It's the slow way. I don't understand. I'm not… are you on TikTok or anything?

49:42 Scott Ingram: No, I'm not on TikTok. Or again, like all of those channels I described, like email, text, LinkedIn, LinkedIn, Slack, all of those things. I think email is just very noisy and polluted. There's so much just junk and stuff you have to like sort through from an email perspective that Slack, I think, is a much cleaner environment. So again, if you can access somebody in their clean environment that they're not getting like spammed 6 ways from Sunday on, and LinkedIn is even polluted in that way too. LinkedIn's a little hard to dig through. I'm like, no, I'm trying to use this. Stop sending me garbage.

50:16 Sarah Thomas: Yes. Yeah. I think you did the nail on the head is like, where do they live? Where do they want to be communicated? Where can you get them? And I will say at Callbox, it was so refreshing. Barely emailed internally. We had our, we had the homegrown, wasn't really a CRM, but we'll call it a communications platform. And it was awesome because it just was streamlined. That's where I lived. Now it was limited. Of course it wasn't. And we ended up getting more of a CRM tool later. But honestly, I was like, we don't even need… we're good. We're good with what we've got. I loved it. I love that we barely had meetings, we barely emailed, but there was a lot of communication happening in person. And it was so nice. And yeah, now I'm having a hard time. It's a bad… it's bad when you're like, oh gosh, I think I missed an email. I never used to miss emails. And to your point, it's just so much noise in there that it's really difficult. And I know there's There's the different… we use G… we use Google at Verkada, believe it or not. And I know there's like the priority inbox and there's… but still thousands and thousands.

51:21 Scott Ingram: So yeah, but anybody can get in there versus your Slack or where you're whatever else is just that clean environment.

51:27 Sarah Thomas: Yep.

51:27 Scott Ingram: Fascinating. All right, now let's talk about all those habits and routines. I know you've been dying for this. So what is the reality of kind of your day in the life? So alarm clock goes off, when does that happen? And just walk us through do it?

51:40 Sarah Thomas: Yeah, it does vary. It just varies. I think I go through phases of… I like to gamify. I'm not a routine person, which is not… I know, not a… probably an unpopular opinion here. Don't do as I say, not as I do. Don't listen to me, listen to everyone else that Scott's interviewed that has good things to say. But no, I… some mornings I'm a hot mess and I'm rushing to get… I would say probably a… I'm like a 7 AM like around 7:00 AM to get up. Sometimes I'm rushing to something, sometimes it's slower. I've done the whole like state phase of make my bed every day, but I'll, I'm being honest, like I, doesn't happen every morning. And then I am someone that likes to work out, but I'm not a morning workout girl. I like a midday or evening, although as I get older, I feel like if I do it in the evening and then I'm eating later and then Sleep, stomach issues and sleep. But I will say I travel a lot. And so this is my justification for not having a routine at home is that it makes it… I'm not as disrupted when I'm on the road. I can be flexible and go, no, I think I'm a gamify girl. Like, I don't even know if that's the right way to put it, but I will when I need a reset, like I'll do a challenge or I'll do a Whole30. I did a… after we closed that big deal, I remember being like, it's just a lot of stress. I'd probably gained weight. At Verkada too, the first 2 weeks we joke that you gain the Verkada 15 because you literally are in the office in San Mateo, which is amazing office with any kind of food you want, any, everywhere. And I'm a fat girl at heart. Like, I'm not… I'm eating all the things. I'm eating all the things. I like to work out too, but I am eating all the things. And you gain weight that way. But also, I wasn't used to Just lots of engaging customers and partners. And I like to golf, so I got to go take people out to golf. And, but lots of dinners. And I'm not even a big… I decided I'm not a big drinker. And I actually decided, like, I'm just gonna… not that I'm saying, like, never, but I just decided not to drink and just be, like, good with that. Because even though I probably would only have one at each outing, it just felt like there was always events going on and always someone to go see. And again, because I like that being out. And so February this past year in 2025, I did a 75 Hard. I don't know if your audience has heard of that. Have you heard of that?

54:13 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Describe it though, if you haven't.

54:14 Sarah Thomas: Yeah. Is it 5 pillars? Basically the goal is to, it's really more of a mental challenge and a discipline challenge, but the goal is to make it 75 days with drinking a gallon of water a day, reading 10 pages of nonfiction a day. Choosing an eating plan or a diet like that's personal to you, whatever you're going to stick to. 2 workouts a day, one each 45 minutes, one has to be outside. And then I'm missing one. Oh, no alcohol, which was easy for me, but not for a lot of people. So full transparency, I made it 40 days, but then I continued with like half of them. So It's really difficult.

54:57 Scott Ingram: 75 soft-boiled.

54:59 Sarah Thomas: Soft. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or 40 hard plus a little. Yeah. So I'm like, and listen, sometimes I beat myself up and I'm like, I need to be more disciplined. I've done a half Ironman, I've run a marathon. Like, I get motivated to do those things. I set a goal and I really like to have someone. I think I need accountability. And so I just struggle with the routine thing because it just looks different depending on the stage of life and kind of what's going on. That's the honest answer.

55:27 Scott Ingram: I meant to interrupt you earlier, just not to beat yourself up about it, because there's people listening to this going, I'm not a routine person. And I think part of the insight here is you can be successful if you're not a routine person, right? But it's finding those things that connect to who you are. I know certainly from a health and fitness perspective, I like to have… there's an event scheduled or there's a race, there's something that I'm training Or there's built myself my own Peloton challenge over the summer. I've been riding, I'm north of 1,000 rides at this point. I've been on that thing for 7 or 8 years. And I was like, I'm gonna have my all-time best FTP, which it just sucks. It's a horrible thing. I did it. It was awful in a good way.

56:12 Sarah Thomas: What's FTP?

56:13 Scott Ingram: So FTP is functional threshold power. And it's basically an all-out, it's a 20-minute max Threshold. They suck. They're painful.

56:22 Sarah Thomas: Yeah.

56:23 Scott Ingram: Because it's as hard as you can go.

56:24 Sarah Thomas: And if you're doing that, is it your oxygen? Is it measuring your oxygen?

56:28 Scott Ingram: Now, if you do this in a lab, yeah, absolutely. You could measure VO2 max and you could get other stuff from that type of an effort. But again, like if you are correctly doing an all-out effort, you are going to feel like you want to die when you're done. And that part is not enjoyable. Again, having those things or those challenges, again, if that's the thing that connects and resonates with you and you go from kind of challenge to challenge, there's nothing wrong with that.

56:56 Sarah Thomas: Yeah.

56:57 Scott Ingram: Finding like your own accountability. What is your afternoon evening workout? What are your go-tos?

57:03 Sarah Thomas: Yeah. All over the place with that as well. So there was a, I would say I'm doing ClassPass right now, which is a software or a platform that allows me to go to different types of classes. So I just did a Pilates class the other day. There's a strength, there's a strength studio. It's called Iron Sharpens Iron. That's really close to my house. So it's more strength-based, some HIIT, some high-intensity interval training. And then one of my favorite things about Nashville, there's a guy who's a lawyer in town. It's probably been 11 years now. He started a free workout outside. It's called the Capital Steps Workout. And I used to live really close and it's Mondays and Thursdays. And so it's just a great community and it's running-based, but it's also like hills. And lunges and pushups and different things. And it's just the guy saying, hey, I'm going to do a free workout. And he like decides what the workout is. So you go and you don't even know what you're getting into. It's just always hard, which is great. So sometimes I'll do that. I used to do some triathlons. I might get back into it, especially as my knee… knees get older. What distance?

58:06 Scott Ingram: When you say triathlon, there's a big range there.

58:09 Sarah Thomas: I'm proud to say I made it to half iron. So I did a half Ironman a while ago, probably in Austin. Actually, it was in Austin, Scott.

58:20 Scott Ingram: No kidding. Okay.

58:21 Sarah Thomas: I think it was 2017 and I was going to do another one and I sprained my ankle after that. But yeah, I did one in Austin in 2017. I did a bunch of sprints and Olympic distance. And I'm someone that I'm competitive in life, but not, it's more about doing it. I'm not that fast. I'm not winning anything. Yeah.

58:40 Scott Ingram: So this is an interesting, like, extrovert observation. Do you typically do your training with groups when you're in triathlon mode?

58:48 Sarah Thomas: Ooh, that's such a good question because no.

58:51 Scott Ingram: Fascinating.

58:52 Sarah Thomas: But I have a friend. So the guy, James Crumlin, who started the Capital Steps workout, he's also, he's a really successful lawyer. He also happens to be a triathlon coach, right? So it's nice that he's doing this. In his free time, pro bono, whatever, but also it helps him get clients that he helps train. But my friend is working with him and I'm just like, I'm not going to pay somebody. He's great. He's great. But I'm just not that serious about it to pay someone to do that. I will say a couple open water swims I did, gosh, I probably did some on my own, but also with other people just from a safety perspective, but There's something about when I train for my marathon, I did the marathon in Nashville 2 years ago, first full I had done. And I did go with a running group for the, a couple of the long runs, like the 18 and the 20. But I don't know, I guess it's because I like to do it. It goes back to the routine thing. I don't like being locked into, ah, I don't like it. In Myers-Briggs, I'm a P, I'm an ENFP. And the P, it's either the P or the J. And it's ironic, it's not ironic, but it's funny that the labels are funny because it's perceiving versus judging.

1:00:06 Scott Ingram: Judging. Yeah.

1:00:06 Sarah Thomas: It's more about how you structure your time and your day. And so like, Pete, as a P, I'm spontaneous. I want to be interrupted. J's are like, this is on my calendar, I'm doing it. Right. And I'm like, oh, this is optional. Like, it's on my calendar. But no, I show up to my sales calls. But I, but I think it goes back to me wanting to be able to have the freedom to do it when I want to do it. I don't know what this says about me.

1:00:34 Scott Ingram: Here's the other thing I'm fascinated by is so far we've touched on 3 different personality tests. Are there any more that we need to talk about? It seems like, when did all of this happen? Because there is a deep level of understanding of self that you've got going on.

1:00:51 Sarah Thomas: Wow. Thanks for saying that. I hadn't thought of it that way, but maybe there's just a, I'm really interested in it, interested in how people work and also like, why am I the way I am and what does this mean? So Myers-Briggs was that Center for Creative Leadership, that guy that asked if I took people breaks. We did a deep dive into Myers-Briggs, be like a level beyond. So for example, I'm an N, which is intuitive versus the opposite is a… or no, sorry, it's thinker-feeler that are the opposite. So a feeler, it's how you make decisions and I'm more of a feeler. Versus a thinker would be more logical, but I ask a lot of questions. So it, it's funny on the deeper level, I had a lot of T qualities in asking questions. So I was very, I'm very inquisitive and that was like, anyway, so you just took it a level deeper. So that was fun to do. And I think it helps me just understand maybe where people are coming from when I meet them and not like, Like Pete, our VP, was like naval, former like Naval Academy guy and like certainly way more structured than me. I never asked him what his Myers-Briggs is, but I'm guessing, right? It's, there's probably a J in there or maybe it's a learned quality. So yeah, I think it just helps me engage with people better and know myself. Just always been interested in that. Trying to think of others. The DiSC profile, I think is another, right? Like, I think I'm the, Whatever the influencer, is it yellow?

1:02:22 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yep.

1:02:23 Sarah Thomas: I know I'm not red because that's…

1:02:25 Scott Ingram: I don't know the color side of it. I just know the, I just know the DISC.

1:02:29 Sarah Thomas: Well, and then there's either blue or one of them's cautious. Blue or green is cautious. Am I, is it dominant influencer? One's conservative. Anyway, I'm going to get it wrong, but yeah, I'm not going to Google it now because I'm going to expose myself.

1:02:44 Scott Ingram: All salespeople live on the DI side of the that thing. Like, you're somewhere in that range. It's very rare that you are the SC, which, yeah, it's been too long since I've done DISC stuff to remember what those are.

1:02:55 Sarah Thomas: But am I missing any though? You asked me about personality tests, but I'm like, am I missing any?

1:03:00 Scott Ingram: Oh, you hit a lot of good ones, including the numbers one you were talking about is the one that I maybe haven't done, or maybe I have and I just have nothing to hang my hat on there because I don't know what the numbers mean. To me, Myers-Briggs is the oldest. I took that in college psychology a gajillion years ago. And then interestingly though, I took it again, we had like an onboarding boot camp thing when I was at Eloqua. This was really interesting and fun. So we had cohorts that did this all together. So we all went up to Toronto together and it was all roles, which I thought was actually really cool. So you got to understand all parts of the company and get to know a lot of different people in different parts of the company. And we did Myers-Briggs as part of that. And the only thing for me that switched is because I live right on the bubble. I think when I did it, I can't remember which was which. I think when I did it in college, I was either an ESTJ and then I tested again. I think Eloquent, because I remember it being really surprising. I tested I, and again, I am an absolute middle-of-the-road ambivert. It depends whether I get energy being by myself or if I get energy being around people. It totally…

1:04:10 Sarah Thomas: I'm jealous. I'm jealous. I feel like that's the… it's a good mix.

1:04:14 Scott Ingram: Yeah. But honestly, I think my favorite is StrengthsFinder. I connect with that idea because a lot of the book and the story and stuff that goes behind StrengthsFinder is leaning into your strengths is so much more powerful than trying to fix your weaknesses. Forget about your weaknesses. Let somebody else do the stuff that you're weak at. Be you. So again, just given what I've learned from this show and about myself, strengths are absolutely powerful. So that's the one that resonates the most and the words make sense.

1:04:43 Sarah Thomas: Yes.

1:04:43 Scott Ingram: You don't have to go to Briggs and go, okay, what are these letters again? Or we have to figure out some numbers or remember what the S DISC is or no, it's just Woo makes sense. I get it.

1:04:54 Sarah Thomas: Do you know your 5? Do you remember your 5?

1:04:57 Scott Ingram: Oh, I'd have to look at the list. I'm sure it's in my Evernote somewhere.

1:05:01 Sarah Thomas: I do remember mine. Woo number 1. I just wrote these down. Developer, includer, communication, and positivity. Were my 5. And I'm wondering now as I read them, woo, absolutely winning others over, like hands down. I just wonder if the time of life has anything to do, like what you're doing at that time, because these resonate.

1:05:25 Scott Ingram: But yeah, not only time of life, but I think the perspective that you're taking it from and what kind of job you're doing and things like that. So I did find mine because Evernote, I just type things in and it knows everything. Thing. I'm Maximizer, Futuristic, Activator, Strategic, Relator. And as I say those, I'm like, yeah, that's pretty much me.

1:05:44 Sarah Thomas: Love it. I love it. So great.

1:05:46 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So, for those who haven't done it, I'm sure this is still around. Like, just look up StrengthsFinder and pay the $20 or whatever. It's so worth doing just as a way to understand yourself a little bit better. And I think that introspective piece is so important. So, I love that you accidentally tripped on this theme for us.

1:06:04 Sarah Thomas: Good. Good. I love that. And I hope it's like you said, it's not a bunch of, it's not hard to understand. StrengthsFinder is very, very clear. And it's nice for a change to look at, yeah, look at the positive and not be so focused on the deficits.

1:06:17 Scott Ingram: Exactly. I'm not a routine person, so you don't have to beat yourself up about not being a routine person.

1:06:22 Sarah Thomas: Yeah, exactly.

1:06:24 Scott Ingram: From a sales perspective, do you subscribe to a particular sales philosophy?

1:06:30 Sarah Thomas: I would say just a customer-centric, customer-centric philosophy of really starting with the customer understanding, like we were talking about earlier, truly understanding, understanding the customer before you're even… yes, of course, our mind goes to, I've got something that's going to help you or solve this problem. But I would say adding to that, to 2 C's, customer-centric, but like curious, a curiosity, and that ties back to Again, I truly, I'm grateful that I genuinely do like people and want to learn about not only their job, I want to learn about them, but also, yeah, also their job. Also, like what we talk a lot about, obviously there's, you're selling, you're mitigating risk when you're selling as well. So you're just as much selling to, to someone who might be coming from a place where it's a really risky decision. To go with your product or your service or your solution. And so really understanding that I think is important. What makes this person tick? What makes, you know, what's on the line for them? What's really important? So I would say curiosity, just being genuinely curious about your customer would be more of a philosophy. I don't, I've studied some of the, I haven't really, I'm not, I wouldn't call myself like a student of sales as much as some other people are, but maybe a student of people. Like studying people and behaviors.

1:07:52 Scott Ingram: I like that. I like that. How would you describe your style within that?

1:07:57 Sarah Thomas: Yeah, very relational. As I was reading some of your questions for this podcast, that one made me think. I had a boss when I was at Elon, and this wasn't a positive comment. I don't think he meant it in a positive way. He was saying, he goes, you're chummy. You're too chummy. And that stuck with me. And not really in a great way, right? I was like, okay, so there was a little bit of me trying to not be myself in some ways, almost trying to overcorrect. And, but leaning into like highly relational and getting to know people and going in person. And I think one area I want to get better is more of a, again, that going into that deep work of really strategically understanding their business, the ROI, the numbers associated, like in their language. And that's something I just need to grow in. But I would say leaning into more of like relationship-first selling.

1:08:53 Scott Ingram: Is there anything that you have done to self-correct or soften like that statement? How are you different since that comment?

1:09:02 Sarah Thomas: Yeah, I think sometimes I'll be a little more quiet. It's funny when I first got to Verkada. So we read and studied like Fanatical Prospecting when I was at Callbox. And I'm pretty sure it was Jeb's book, that book where he's like, he's my buddy Jeb. Is it Blount? Blount? I don't know how to say his last name, but I think it's the power statement that's in there. And anyway, it's that kind of transformed how I sold, which is it's a power statement, which basically is saying you're starting with You're starting with the customer. You're starting with, hey, here are the… maybe here's other customers we work with that have the problems that you have. These are what… this is what you're encountering. And it's emotional. It's like you're feeling stuck because of this. You're limited because of this. You're frustrated by this. And so really honing in on, honing in on those, that pain and those like emotional words to say, this is about you first. So I would say that was really helpful for me to frame it. And, but yeah, I would say maybe holding back a little bit more and not talking as much or not asking certain questions is how I overcorrected. I also think it's a little bit of me trying to… I'm on the fence of this. What does being professional look like? And not again, what does it look like? And I think I have this insecurity that I'm going to come across as fake or something. There's… and so instead of coming across as prepared, it can be I'm prepared. I know your business. I've got numbers to show you. That's all good stuff. And for some reason, sometimes I lean into, I don't want to be, I don't want to be too, I don't want to be that the Harvard consultant or the Bain consultant, McKinsey, like coming in and being like, here, let me just, here's a PowerPoint. Here's what you're going to do. But I think I need to get, honestly, I need to lean more into that personally. I think I'm afraid to come across as not genuine. For some reason if I'm so buttoned up. And this is just me again being vulnerable here with you and the audience. Like, I, I really feel like I struggle, and I… in that, in my head, I'm like, stop. No, I need to lean into being more strategic, being more professional, being more formal in some ways. I just don't love being formal all the time, but there's a time that you need to be formal, I think. So does any… do you wrestle with that?

1:11:23 Scott Ingram: Does that make I'm sitting here, my wheels are spinning so hard because this is probably its own hour-long conversation because honestly, my initial… and you and I are very much the same in this way, I think. I'm allergic to PowerPoint. I just like to have conversations. So I'm very similar. And my initial reaction when you said, oh, I need to be more professional, that felt disconnected to me.

1:11:49 Sarah Thomas: Yeah, that's coming from somewhere that I need to unpack. That's probably a… yeah, someone said something to me, you're too chummy, which put a pin in words matter. We need to talk. I like words matter too, by the way.

1:12:01 Scott Ingram: Anyway, I'm serious. I think you and I need to counsel each other on this because it is an interesting thing. But in very similar ways, as you were talking through the ways that you've changed, I think one of the superpowers this podcast has given me is the ability to ask questions and shut the hell up for long periods of time. And then maybe even more powerful than that is not waiting for that instant that somebody is done talking to then, even if it's a follow-up question, but that letting it breathe because often they weren't actually done. And sometimes even if they were done and you leave that space and you leave that silence, I often find that's where the gold nuggets come out. It's leaving that space. And I think where I've come to on this is the highest level of expertise and the highest level of professionalism is allowing the other person to be the expert and not feeling like it has to be you. Because now the perception is, wow, you are so smart. I'm like, all I did was let you talk.

1:13:15 Sarah Thomas: Yes, it's about getting others to come to that. We're empowering people. We're empowering them. We're educating. We're getting people to feel, to make their own decision, to come to the conclusion. Yeah, absolutely.

1:13:26 Scott Ingram: Because to me, that's the very best leaders are leading you to your decision. They're not telling you. They're not putting on the consultant tie and you're like, let me tell you. No, because that doesn't connect. That doesn't resonate. So while I think again, this is one of those traps of the perception of sales, that's the wrong approach. Like it feels like that's what we should be doing, but the really right thing is to get out of the way and allow them to make their decision. This is why I have a core belief that you can't sell anybody anything. Like the only person that can sell somebody is yourself or themselves. That's what we have to draw out, not like, I'm going to give you the answer, because if it's not their answer, they're not doing it.

1:14:13 Sarah Thomas: And how powerful is silence and quiet? And we're all like, a lot of people are uncomfortable with it. I worked with a guy named Corey who was super quiet. We would joke that we're like, it was like 30 seconds and he's, yeah, and it just feels like forever. I want to say you made me think of when you were talking about shutting up, like asking questions, shutting up and listening. So I did some improv classes when I lived in Dallas. And some stand-up too. It was the scariest freaking thing ever. Oh my gosh. I was like in an old bar where people still… I was like, people still smoke in bars? Like this old bar in the middle of nowhere outside of Dallas and like doing stand-up and no one's paying attention to me. I was like, what the heck am I doing? But when I did improv, the first… first of all, the lesson there is that the listening is so powerful because you miss the magic if you're already thinking about the funny thing you're gonna say. And So I found myself when I was class number 1, so I took some classes. So before I knew anything about it, like I knew what you're supposed to do, the Dallas Comedy House had a thing called the Jam and you would go up, anyone could perform for free and go up and it was just fun and it was to get reps in. And I remember going up the first night, like just, and there was a woman who was one of the instructors who was like awesome at it. And I just remember I didn't know anything and it was the best. We had the best scene together, right? And then I started learning. Okay, now we're practicing this. And now you escalate and you do the 3. You're gonna say, you're gonna, that's more standup, but you're gonna listen and respond and yes, and whatever. You learn all the tenets of it. And then I just was so in my freaking head the rest of the time. But the point is the listening of, I would just react also like you, the yes, and is because we naturally as people have a combative, combative is not the word, but a pushing against or a, oh no, what about this? Or challenging almost. Versus improv, the… it's, you're going with it. If someone's like, oh, I just, we're going to go drive to Poughkeepsie, like in improv, you're not like, no, let's go to, let's go to San Diego instead. That doesn't make a good scene. You say, yeah, I brought the snacks. And then you build from there. And so anyway, just our human nature of also wanting to, and wanting to be funny in that situation, you like try to think of, oh, what would be funny here versus just listening. Like listening and picking up on that. Where is the other person? Where, like, where are they coming from? So that's powerful. And I struggle with that, I think, in general, but really, I don't know. I think it's been an interesting roller coaster for me in the last couple of years, like being at a new organization and feeling, I think my way of selling, which is being listening more, I think sometimes if I have an engineer on the call with me, I'm like, I've got to make sure they're on the same page with, hey, I know what I'm talking about. I'm just purposely not. It's like sometimes I think people feel like you're not prepared or you don't know. I'm letting them. I don't know. There's been times where I think I do it well and then times where I'm maybe not forced, but I feel like I'm like, oh, I'm supposed to be selling a certain way.

1:17:16 Scott Ingram: Yeah. The thing that you said that resonated the most was when you're trying to do too much, and you get in your head is when it all goes wrong. I think this also connects to, I feel like just over the course of my career, sales has gotten easier and more and more fun because of exactly this. I'm not in my head.

1:17:39 Sarah Thomas: Yeah.

1:17:39 Scott Ingram: I'm just there. I'm just legitimately curious. And that works. It's not a technique. It's not, I'm not trying to do this thing to you.

1:17:49 Sarah Thomas: Yeah, it's not like in a 200-page book like that. You, yeah, you can say it in one sentence, which is, I'm curious and I'm listening and I want to understand and I'm here to help potentially.

1:18:02 Scott Ingram: Yeah, exactly. Sarah, what motivates you? What drives you? Like, how do you think about all that?

1:18:07 Sarah Thomas: I had a woman who's been mentoring some of us who talks about defining your values. And it's funny how to me, fun keeps coming up. Because I think I want to have… I want it… I want this to be fun. I want to have fun at work. I want others to have fun. And maybe it's joy. So I don't know if it's the word fun yet, but from a what do I really value? And so it's like connection and fun. So what motivates me, I would say, is just getting to, I don't know, leave people better than you found them kind of thing. Like, and then from a… I was thinking about this from another perspective of just I want to retire early. That's what motivates me to sell. Sell more and make more money. Honestly, it's like just having that freedom and autonomy to keep working if you want or not, or to do something different. I would say it's a mix of things. My, my family wanting to provide. I'm single, don't have kids yet, but I want to have kids. So it's like that. I know it's weird to say, but I remember… this is so dumb… but I remember being like, I need to… do I start a 529 plan for the kids that I don't have yet? I'm like, can I do that? And I'm like, why do I… I'm like thinking that way without care. But anyway, so I don't know if I have a good answer for that. It's lots of different things, I would say.

1:19:21 Scott Ingram: I think you did. What's interesting to me, and I actually, I thought maybe incorrectly that this was a little bit more of a male thing, but I think if you ask why enough times on that, you almost always get back to freedom.

1:19:35 Sarah Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. You're saying like women don't tend to say that, but men will say that, or?

1:19:40 Scott Ingram: I know it to be like very predominantly true amongst men. Like, I haven't thought about it in the same way. Is it a different answer for women? Or maybe it's not.

1:19:50 Sarah Thomas: Yeah. And maybe being someone, I keep saying I'm single, but I'm on this podcast to find a husband, right? Is that why you're here?

1:19:56 Scott Ingram: Okay. Let's put that out there.

1:19:58 Sarah Thomas: Let's go. Let's go. Call me, email me.

1:20:01 Scott Ingram: Slack, LinkedIn. Sarah, what do you want?

1:20:03 Sarah Thomas: Send me a calendar and like, get on, just put it on my calendar. Calendar. Just put it on Nashville dates.

1:20:10 Scott Ingram: Let's just go up, pick a nice restaurant, send a calendar invite.

1:20:15 Sarah Thomas: Who cares if I'm free or not? We'll figure it out. I can be in 2 places at once. That's what an ENFP thinks. We can do it.

1:20:22 Scott Ingram: Oh my gosh.

1:20:23 Sarah Thomas: Yeah, it could be different for someone that maybe has like another provider in the house or something like that, but I don't know. I do think about it now at my age. I do think about freedom and also just as much as I enjoy sales, there is a stress to it. It never stops, right? That's, it can never, it never sleeps or it doesn't have to sleep. Like you could always be, there's always something to do, someone to call. And so I think with my personality, it is hard to sometimes shut it off because you want to just keep going. And also this is a whole nother podcast, but finding that, trying not to find affirmation in how much money you make or what you've sold. And that's really difficult. But I would, yeah, absolutely freedom to, I think I'm like, do I want to go be a landscaper? Do I want to work with my hands? I don't know. Do something that's not as, that's more physical labor and just get in your body and not be stressed in the same way.

1:21:15 Scott Ingram: Speaking of the physical thing, I've had a curiosity that I've wanted to itch for so long since we started talking. You talked about the sports and that being like one of the first things. What are your sports? You mentioned golf. What are your go-to sports? What is Sarah into?

1:21:29 Sarah Thomas: I grew up playing soccer and basketball, and then in college, being a PE major, I dabbled in everything. I would call myself athletic. I wasn't like good enough to be D1, go D1 and play. And so I didn't. But I've gotten into golf a lot more lately. I love it. I'm okay. I'm not great. I'm gonna… people are like, after you close the big deal, what did you buy yourself something or whatever? I'm like, I'm maybe gonna get new golf clubs. I don't have golf clubs, but because I have an $80 set from a guy's basement. Wow. But I love golf. It's hard to play soccer and basketball these days again because of some old injuries, but I used to play tennis for fun, racquetball. I know pickleball is… the first time I played actually was at the summit last year.

1:22:16 Scott Ingram: It's an experience, people.

1:22:18 Sarah Thomas: I'm telling you, dude, it's the best. It's the best. It's such a great community though, for real. The first 2 seconds I was like, oh, I'm the new kid because there is such a strong community that you've built. But then that quickly, like everyone's so welcoming and so great. And I was trying to keep up with the guys and the gals who were really good, but that was the first time I played. So yeah. What about you?

1:22:40 Scott Ingram: You know, what's interesting is I'm very much an individual sport kind of guy, right? I live on the stupid Peloton. I'm trying to get into the gym a little bit more these days because neither of us is talking about our age, but it turns out like that number only goes up and strength becomes more and more important over time. Yeah, I've dropped a Peloton day and added a strength day to my schedule here lately. What's interesting about that though, going back, is I actually find that training in groups, there's something really magical. Like, I have met really… I think it gets harder and harder to connect and make friends as an adult, and that is a way to do it that is amazing. And I'm thinking about picking up the running thing again. And again, if you go do that and you find your pace group and kind of people that you run with… I don't like running by myself, but I find that if I'm just running and chatting, I'm like, oh cool, like we just ran 5 miles, that was nice.

1:23:40 Sarah Thomas: Yeah.

1:23:40 Scott Ingram: And it's a side effect sort of a thing that the Peloton thing is just a lock myself in the garage and punish myself sort I don't know what that is.

1:23:50 Sarah Thomas: But is the Peloton the idea that you can digitally, like you're connecting to people, you could take classes with friends, right? But it's, you're not in person, obviously.

1:23:58 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And it really doesn't work that way. The thing that I miss, and it's really funny. So my wife is a Pilates instructor. Ooh. So she does the group exercise stuff and she teaches classes and she does private stuff and all the things. I actually watch her struggle and just fight with the YMCA because I I used to teach spin at the Y. The problem is you have to check too many stupid boxes. Oh, I have to get CPR certified all the time, and I have to take like that I won't abuse children classes and how to clean up blood. I'm like, none of these things are ever going to… there are no children in my class. I'm not a camp counselor. But anyway, there's just a lot of hoops to jump through that I am no longer willing to jump But what the Peloton does that I always wished I had when I was teaching those classes is all of the metrics. Because I always wanted to know, I wanted to know, A, that I was actually working harder than anybody else in the class. If I'm really honest, that's actually what was going on. But for me, all of those metrics, it just pushes all of my buttons. And there is a leaderboard. And even though they're not even people that I know, you are kind of riding with other people. And yeah, I am a competitive freak when it comes to that stuff. And I have to take a certain type of class where you're not supposed to win the class. Otherwise it's bad.

1:25:25 Sarah Thomas: Do you ever do too much? Do you ever feel like you're like overtrained and you need to…

1:25:29 Scott Ingram: A little bit actually recently. So when I did switch to this, so it's, I'm 3 days on the Peloton, 3 days strength training. I switched my strength training. So before when it was twice a week, I did upper body, lower body, right? So it was a split workout. Out. In the 3-day-a-week, I've been doing full body, and that actually started to accumulate for me. And now that I'm recovering from being sick, I've not gone to the gym in a week and a half because you're working like some of the same muscle groups multiple. Yeah, I think so. I think just all of it. And I was also peaking what I was doing on Peloton, so I was just training a lot. I for sure was feeling that.

1:26:07 Sarah Thomas: Yeah, I'm in the market for… I used to have a… this old Garmin. My brother's good friend owns a running store in St. Pete And he like does a lot of triathlons too. And he sent me this, it was, it's like a 920X. I forget what it was, old school Garmin that you could pull off the watch and put right on the bike. And I did love that. And I could swim laps with it too and get my heart rate and stuff. So I'm in the market for, I'm like debating. Um, are you an Apple Watch guy? And the only reason I ask is because I want something where I can go for a walk and not have my phone. And from a safety perspective, I feel like I'm on my phone too much.

1:26:43 Scott Ingram: So yeah, I'm explicitly not. I've tried. I have 2 wrist things going on, right? So I got a Garmin on one hand, and the only reason for the Garmin is for the time and my heart rate, because on my other wrist is a Whoop, and the Whoop doesn't show me anything. To not be looking at my phone… I tried the Apple Watch. There's something… I don't know if I'm just… I've gotten so used to the Garmin, and I think part of it's the simplicity.

1:27:08 Sarah Thomas: There's too much maybe on it. I know.

1:27:10 Scott Ingram: Yeah, the notifications or something about the Apple Watch just… it didn't work for me. And so my daughter got a new Apple Watch instead.

1:27:18 Sarah Thomas: I feel like I've been resisting as well for some reason. I don't know why. It just doesn't… I'm like, I just need a Garmin. I just need to like be able to swim, bike, and run.

1:27:26 Scott Ingram: Safety perspective, love the idea of the Apple Watch with the phone situation going on so that you've got…

1:27:31 Sarah Thomas: okay, like we did this walking challenge, the steps challenge at work, and it's like the only… because I didn't have a Garmin or anything I would have to have my phone with me at all times to get credit for. And I'm just like tired of, I'd go for a walk. I'm like, I'm on this thing too much.

1:27:46 Scott Ingram: Yeah. I run with my phone. It's really stupid. I'm looking, I have the biggest stupid iPhone you can have and I have to run with that. It's dumb. I have not done any sort of long distance in that mode because I can't imagine here I am half marathon. I'm an hour and a half into holding my phone and swinging it around. Is probably not a thing.

1:28:05 Sarah Thomas: Hey, there's a new thing. Not to… this is for the female listeners. There's a sports bra I ran my marathon in that you could put your phone in the sports bra. There's a pocket. It's old. It's like an old Lululemon sports bra. Not sponsored.

1:28:18 Scott Ingram: Fortunately, I'm fit enough not to need the sports bra. Yeah.

1:28:21 Sarah Thomas: Yeah. You don't need it. That's good. Belts are always hard too. I feel like I'm always like adjusting. I can't do a belt, like a running belt that has like pockets. I don't know.

1:28:30 Scott Ingram: Yeah, yeah, these are first world challenges.

1:28:32 Sarah Thomas: First world problems. At least we can still walk and run and yeah, we're still here.

1:28:37 Scott Ingram: Is there something you believe that the typical sales professional would think is crazy?

1:28:44 Sarah Thomas: Man, I was trying to think hard about this one. This one was tough. What I kept going back to was the theme of vulnerability. I think a lot of people nowadays wouldn't think this is crazy, but being able to be transparent and vulnerable with your customers. What I was going to say is nowadays with mental health the way, just lots of, there's lots of us having, there's lots of struggles out there that people keep quiet. And so I would say, and even from a career progression standpoint, you're like, oh, I can't. People are afraid, I think, to tell their boss like they're struggling. And I would say I'm a big fan of, or people joke about HR, don't tell HR things. But I think, I don't know, I think if you're struggling and you really want to get better or stay somewhere, or maybe you are worried about hitting your number or whatever it is like. And even if you don't tell your boss, I guess first go to someone and tell them. And I'm even a fan of go to your manager and have that conversation. So I just think more vulnerability versus, no, I gotta have it all together and I've gotta hit, I've gotta do whatever it takes to hit my number and I'm really stressed over here. And I think put it in the light. Like, I think would be what I would say. It might be some people might say, oh, be careful about that.

1:29:56 Scott Ingram: But yeah, I like that a lot. I do think that, yeah, to some degree you need to be careful with that. I think it really depends on the culture. If you have a good, supportive, solid sales culture, I say hell yeah. And if I'm on the other side of that, if I'm leading somebody that is struggling, I want them to tell me because I want to be able to help. And not knowing there's nothing I can do.

1:30:19 Sarah Thomas: I think there's a lot of times it's, oh, this person left, or this wasn't working out, and no one spoke up. Yeah. You didn't speak up to be an advocate for yourself, but also, it's okay to be vulnerable, and it's okay to struggle. I would also say, if you do speak up and it doesn't go well, is that a place that you want to be? Or is that a manager that…

1:30:36 Scott Ingram: Great test.

1:30:37 Sarah Thomas: You want to… that's probably not someone you may not want to work for, and that's okay. Like, I'm not…

1:30:42 Scott Ingram: You know, one of my favorite pieces of feedback from the summit this year. So we were at dinner Monday night and had a first timer. And he said, this is unbelievable. I've been to God knows how many sales conference things over time. And he said, until I came here, it was always nothing is wrong. Everything is perfect. We have never missed a quarter or a month or a year in our lives. We have never struggled. It was all garbage and you couldn't be real. And it was just this facade thing. And he's like, come here and there's real success. I'm surrounded by some of the most successful people I've ever been around. And we're all struggling. This is not because we can actually talk about it. There's a level of openness and vulnerability and realness of, look folks, this is not all like unicorns and rainbows. Yeah, it's never been black and white ever.

1:31:40 Sarah Thomas: And also in deals specifically, we do deal reviews at Verkada and some people are like, oh, I don't want like leadership to be like meddling in my deals. And I'm like, everybody come in. I don't want to lose. Tell me if there's something I'm not thinking of. Let's dissect this. Or if it's like, ooh, I think I missed the mark there, or I might not be the best person to communicate. I need, like you said earlier, how I, I knew to bring certain people in. Maybe there's someone else that's going to deliver this message better. So yeah, don't be afraid to also be real about your deals and where they are.

1:32:11 Scott Ingram: Love that. Love that. What about the other side of kind of the sales dogma? Like, what is everybody thinking in sales that you think, no, that's not right.

1:32:19 Sarah Thomas: You're all wrong. Earlier I was like, I was, first of all, my mind goes 2 places. One, I'm laughing because earlier I was like, you hear a lot of people saying you can't just call someone and check in. Don't check in. You got to have all, you got to bring all this value. And yeah. Yes, but I think I'm like, sometimes I just want to call my prospect and be like, haven't heard from you in a while. Is every… what's, you know, and obviously you're calling with specific purpose to, to get information. But anyway, I just laugh because we're all like, you got to send this article and you got to send this thing, you got to bring value every single time. And it's… don't say… I get why it's, oh, I'm just calling to check in. That's… some people are like, don't waste my time. But anyway, I feel like we over correct. And it's okay to, it's okay to communicate with people and to check in. But also process, like you and I were saying, and tools. I also feel like there's, I guess I'm an example of, I don't utilize every single tool and I don't have a perfect process and like, it's going to be okay. I think there's a lot of, a lot of pushing of, pushing of process and doing things a certain way. And yeah, nothing like too crazy that I Spicy hot take.

1:33:29 Scott Ingram: It's okay to check in.

1:33:31 Sarah Thomas: I don't know. I just find it funny. It's stop everybody. Stop saying check in. And I don't know. I'm always mad because I find myself on the phone and I'm like, I say it. I'm like, hey, I'm just calling to check in because it's what I'm doing.

1:33:43 Scott Ingram: I like it. I like it. What advice do you have for somebody that's just getting started in their sales career?

1:33:49 Sarah Thomas: Don't be afraid to fail. And I also would say, we touched on it earlier. Find the people that are succeeding and maybe again, like we talked about, it looks different for different people and garner as much as you can about what they're doing and then be, still be true to you. Like we talked about, bring it back and be self-aware and really lean into your gut. Because I think again, God gave us a gut, gave us that intuition in that gut. And, and it doesn't all have to look the same, but I would say, yeah, lean into people who are succeeding, lean into people who have maybe done it longer than you and don't be afraid to fail. I also tell this story, like I had a great, again, we call them EDRs, enterprise development reps. And if you know that you're, or you're an SDR, that's where a lot of people start, right? Your job is to book calls, right? Like your metrics usually are get people to show up for calls and that's great. But if you do aspire to be an AE and move into a sales official, like individual contributor role, I would say step up maybe even before you're comfortable and take on, take on that discovery call, take on what's that next level? Like pretend like you're an AE now. And what does that look like? And start asking your rep, if it's me, hey, can I, I've been listening, I've been watching, can I try one of these? Yeah. Yeah. So I would say before you even feel ready, go and try if that's the next thing you want to do, you know, if that truly is. And if you don't, that's okay too. Like you don't have to feel like Like you have to go through this. I don't know that I want to manage right now.

1:35:22 Scott Ingram: Yep, the intentional individual contributor. What do you tell somebody that is further into their career? And one of two things: they're either struggling or they're doing fine, they're doing well, but they haven't found that gear to great. Like they haven't yet closed the company's biggest deal.

1:35:40 Sarah Thomas: What do you tell them, man? It's funny. I'm like writing notes as we're talking. If you're feeling stuck. I think you should go do something crazy. If there's that thing that you're like, wouldn't it be crazy if I just showed up and shadowed this and asked this prospect if I could… can I work with you for a couple of days? Can I come spend some time? Can I do the thing that maybe… do something that you've never done before, do something different or out of the box or crazy or something maybe you've been scared to do. And then also, like, what goes along with that is like, it's hard for me to give… I don't know, it's hard to give advice because each person, I think, is different in that I would say step back and like really reflect. Like, you, you know yourself, so step back and what is that thing that you think is keeping, like, keeping you? For example, for me, like, yes, I closed the biggest deal in company history, but I feel like if I can hone in a couple of those time management organizational things, like, I think I could be even more dangerous, right? But there's something keeping me. There's something, and it's comfort. I think it's comfort. It's a little bit of comfort. It's that I'm stubborn. So find that thing. I think maybe that you probably know deep down, or there's something keeping you stuck and try to step back and just be really honest, I think, about it. Because once you identify it, maybe then you can figure out from there, okay, what's going to get, what, what's the solution here? What's going to get me unstuck? But also I don't know, right? There's… there… I feel part of the, like, imposter syndrome is there's some amazing… there's amazing salespeople out there everywhere. And like, other people in my company could have potentially closed the deal I did. So it's a weird… I don't feel like the expert on… but I will say this. One thing that happened when we closed it, going back to that word belief, I feel like we're… this is like Ted Lasso belief. One of the things I just… the words that came to my mind and I told, especially like the women at Verkada, because I have a community there, think bigger. And so, I, it opened, it was so cool how it opened the door in our mind. What, here's what was possible before. It's like the 4-minute mile. I was just talking to, is it Roger Bannister? It's like before that got shattered, my brother just ran a freaking 100 or 50-mile trail race. It's called the JFK 50. I was just watching the livestream yesterday and it's like, this guy broke his record and this woman broke her, and it's just, it's possible. And so, it's cool to see, like, just think bigger. There is more that's possible. And if you believe, like, it was really cool how closing that deal just unlocked for a lot of people, oh my gosh, I can, maybe I can do that. Maybe I can do more. That was so special because you could just see that it just elevated the whole thinking of the company and each individual. And so, yeah, I just encourage believe and there's more, like there could be more. There definitely is more and it's possible. If I can do it, anybody can do it. And that's really Ah, it's exciting.

1:38:38 Scott Ingram: I love that. I love that. Put that piece in perspective though. So before you did this $20+ million deal, like what was the previous big deal?

1:38:48 Sarah Thomas: I don't know how much I can share there.

1:38:51 Scott Ingram: I'm not going to put you in a bad spot.

1:38:52 Sarah Thomas: Yeah.

1:38:53 Scott Ingram: Safe to say like it was a lot bigger.

1:38:56 Sarah Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Significantly.

1:38:58 Scott Ingram: Again, to your point, once somebody breaks through and why not you? To be that person that just raises the bar orders of magnitude.

1:39:08 Sarah Thomas: Yeah, it's really cool because I was nervous about going to Verkada because I knew it would be a challenge, but I knew I needed to put myself at the table, like on the bus, so to speak, because my last company, while it was great, I didn't have that potential. Like there wasn't potential there just because of the nature of what we were selling and the size. And I shouldn't say that. I don't want to limit myself or anyone there, but But you, you got to put yourself in a position as well to, and it was powerful to say, wow, I, I'm proud of myself for betting on myself and putting myself in the position. But yeah, it was pretty significantly greater.

1:39:43 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. That's awesome. Sarah, we have covered a ton of ground. Is there something that you had hoped we would touch on that somehow we didn't?

1:39:53 Sarah Thomas: I know we talked about a lot. I will just say this. I want to share that this year has been there's been a lot of ups and downs. And so while at work, like you're on this mountain, close the biggest deal and really amazing blessings and like commission checks and all of that. And at the same time, like my mom was diagnosed with cancer again and she has a recurrence. And so I just want to share that, like one thing I'm learning is how to Again, that I feel like God is in control. I don't feel like we're in control of as much as we think we are, but that it's okay that those things coexist. It's okay that… and not even okay, it's life… that there's going to be that mountain and that valley, and sometimes even at the same time. And so it was a weird feeling of, uh, putting… having this new platform and almost being a celebrity in a way, and then also struggling on the other side with what mom's going through. And so just want to encourage everybody that like, that's, it's life and that it's okay that there's going to be, you can hold both and not feel bad about celebrating and then, and not feel bad about grieving in a way or struggling. And so again, just the reality of, you hear about, and I know like Brandon Fluharty talks a lot about, I've been following him and purpose in what's deeper that's out there and what's more important that's out there and just keeping things into perspective. So I just wanted to share that. It's been an interesting year and I'm very grateful in a sense for both because I have that, I have perspective or grateful that I have the perspective that I do from it. Yeah.

1:41:36 Scott Ingram: I love that. I love that. One of the really, I think, pivotal things that happened at the summit this year was Kaleigh asking and had everybody stand up if they were either thriving or surviving. And to me, it was just a really interesting recognition of, to your point, one, you could be surviving in some areas and thriving in others, and both of those can be true. But for me, it was more about there's just phases. Somebody who is wildly successful There are times when they're thriving and there are other times when we are surviving. I think being aware of that and it's okay. It's okay that you're not thriving all day, every day. There's no other way. Sometimes that's not how it works. To your point, like sometimes you're not exactly in control of all of those situations that are, right? Super interesting stuff. Let's make this actionable. So I'd like to end on a challenge. What would you challenge our listener to do over the course of the next 1 or 2 weeks to improve themselves and improve their results?

1:42:49 Sarah Thomas: Okay, I'm gonna get a little fun with this. Hopefully, I want to be a part of this. So my challenge is for you to think of that thing. We were actually just talking a little bit about this. What's that thing that has you stuck or has you weighed down? And it could be something personal. Hey, I need to call somebody and ask for forgiveness. I need to call someone and apologize. Maybe it's taking a step with a side hustle that you've wanted to do and you've, you felt stuck. And so I would say, figure out that, that thing, what that is for you. What's the thing that keeps you up at night or just again, it's like in your head and maybe it's a really good thing and exciting thing, or it could be a really hard thing. And figure out that thing. And in the next 2 weeks… this is part 1… figure out that thing and go do that next step, that next step. And then I want people to email me what their thing is, if they're comfortable with that. Some of those will be personal, but if you've decided to do a challenge, or, right, if it's a fitness challenge, an eating challenge, a sales challenge, whatever it is, I'm going to give you guys my email and I, if you want some accountability in it, the first 2 people that email me, I will do your, I will do your challenge with you within reason. If I can physically, I don't know when this is going to air. So we'll see within reason, I will evaluate and yeah, do your challenge with you. So I don't know if that even makes sense, but I like it.

1:44:23 Scott Ingram: I like it. And I would say copy me on that. So Sarah, let's throw out our email addresses here. Again, I love hearing about… so I think in simplest form, it's find your thing, do your thing. Yeah.

1:44:34 Sarah Thomas: Include us.

1:44:35 Scott Ingram: Whatever Sarah inspired you to think of and do. So Sarah, what email are they using for you?

1:44:42 Sarah Thomas: Make sure to email me at sarahraethomas@gmail.com. That's sarahraethomas@gmail.com.

1:44:55 Scott Ingram: Perfect. And then copy me, scott@top1.fm. And yeah, we look forward to hearing from you and what these challenges are. I'm not committing to doing any of the challenges unless they're very interesting. So if something speaks to me, if your challenge triggers me in some way, but I'm not saying I'm going to do the first 2. That's Sarah.

1:45:15 Sarah Thomas: This was good. Yeah, maybe I should backpedal. Can we edit that out? I know people are going to come up with… I would love some sort of participation. Or I would love to be involved into here and happy to be an accountability partner or just a cheerleader.

1:45:29 Scott Ingram: Yeah, why don't we both commit to this? We will cherry-pick 2 challenges to be a part of. They might be different challenges, but they have to… because Sarah, if somebody's challenge is their thing is they're going to grow a beard, that's probably not going to work for you. No, I know you're anti-chest hair. I'm guessing a beard also probably not okay.

1:45:48 Sarah Thomas: Yeah, and if they want to do 1,000 push-ups a day, I'll try, but it not work. We'll see.

1:45:55 Scott Ingram: Amazing. Amazing. Sarah, this has been so much fun. Totally worth the wait. Thanks for taking the time.

1:46:01 Sarah Thomas: Thank you so much. I know we probably went long, but I figured we might.

1:46:05 Scott Ingram: So those are the best ones.

1:46:07 Sarah Thomas: Thanks, Scott. Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast.

1:46:13 Scott Ingram: To be sure you never miss an episode and for an invitation to our Sales Success Community powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter at top1.fm.