193: Camden Roncka's Hot Take Machine: Lessons from HubSpot's #1 SMB AE

0:08 Scott Ingram: You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve. To learn more, visit us at top1.fm. Here's your host, Scott Ingram.

0:24 Scott Ingram: Today on the Sales Success Stories podcast, my guest is Camden Roncka, who was the top-performing small business account executive at HubSpot. Welcome to the show, Camden.

0:33 Camden Roncka: Hey, awesome to be here. Appreciate the welcome.

0:35 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. Really looking forward to getting into this. You and I had a real fun kind of pregame a couple of weeks ago, so I've been looking forward to doing this. Let's jump into some immediate value like we always do and talk about what are the top 3 things that you believe have contributed the most to your success in sales?

0:53 Camden Roncka: Yeah, happy to do it. Always a good thing to think about. There's always a lot too when I try to answer that question. Really, to me, trying to boil it down into 3 points, the number one thing for me always has to be my faith, my personal faith. I wouldn't be here without Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. With him, anything is possible. And I really do try to use my position to do his will, to share the gospel there. I always want to give credit where credit's due there.

1:20 Scott Ingram: Awesome. Awesome. What's next? That's a big one.

1:23 Camden Roncka: Yeah, it is a big one and always want to say it. My second piece would definitely be like More of a, just an ultimate commitment to win and really more of an underdog mentality. Happy to dive into that one a little bit if you want to.

1:37 Scott Ingram: I'm sure we will, but let's round it out.

1:39 Camden Roncka: Cool. Number 3, definitely going to be curiosity and adaptability. Lots to say around that point as well, but definitely a very curious individual. Something I really hold to my heart. Something I think is really important with personal development as well as in my career as well.

1:53 Scott Ingram: Sweet, sweet. I know that we will get deeper into all of those as we talk through this. Let's do a little bit of contextualization here first though. Obviously, hopefully most everybody knows who HubSpot is and what you guys are about. Talk a little bit about your role and how you got to that number one spot.

2:09 Camden Roncka: Yeah, certainly. So right now I'm an account executive here in mid-market. I recently was promoted and so I'm selling to net new businesses as well as managing a customer book as well. Started here a few years ago as a BDR out of college and Really worked and grinded my way up here. In terms of trying to become number one, I would definitely credit more of a mentality thing than anything. Just really trying to figure it out, believing that I can do that, believing that genuinely I'm no different than anyone else that has achieved that. And if people have achieved that before, then I can do it as well.

2:47 Scott Ingram: Nice. What's your origin story? It sounds like you did this right out of college. Why sales? Was that always your intended path? How did you end up here?

2:55 Camden Roncka: Yeah, it's a good question. How I ended up at HubSpot is a little bit interesting and definitely we'll dive into that. But I've been selling my whole life. I know that we spoke about this a little bit, but I love to talk about it too. It's really the story of why I'm here in general. As a kid, and I don't know why I did this, I always try to think about why I was doing this, but in elementary school when you don't really know anything about life or I didn't really even know the value of money at all. I was selling candy bars at school and like little trinkets and stuff. And I remember even Silly Bands, like I'm trying to remember in my brain right now. I was so young and I don't know why I was doing that besides I could get more with less. Like I would put in something and then I would get more out of it, which would be an exchange of value or an item at that point being so young. And I was also selling Kool-Aid and things like that. Funny enough, there was a kid on the corner directly across from me that would also sell Kool-Aid, which makes zero sense at all because who's buying… another corner, dude. Yeah. So that was another thing, like day one, always been competitive, but through that experience, that's really ingrained who I am. And then that just really blossomed into more and more and fast forward to high school. I wasn't really given anything from a resource perspective. I didn't come from like a poor background necessarily. It was more that how I was raised, my dad wanted to raise me how he was raised, which he believes that anything that is free has no value. He says he lived that and he definitely lived that and pushed that to the max where there was things that I wouldn't get that I think that I maybe should have gotten, like gas for my car in high school when I don't have a job. But because of that, he would always tell me, you're going to figure it out. You're going to figure it out. You'll understand someday. And I would always be like, I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not happy with this. But to that point, I do definitely credit a lot of, almost everything to that because like you do figure it out. And if you put yourself in a situation that is super difficult, like that, that's just where the magic occurs. And so through that experience, I started to flip and sell go-karts, dirt bikes, things of that nature, because I had to get a job. And so he said, you have to get a job, figure it out. And I didn't want to go work for someone else. So I worked for my own self, did that, did really well with that, learned a lot about business, how things operate. And then really the ultimate piece from that was going to college. Again, same thing where I had to pay for it. It was hard to do. I didn't have enough money saved to max out my loans, thought about dropping out even because I literally couldn't cover it. And so even working a normal job or internship at that point wouldn't have given me enough money to even pay for what I needed to. Tough situation where again, I have to figure it out. So I created a company that's still around today called Top Deck. It's a decking business. And in college, we were doing decks, staining decks, fixing decks, painting them, whatnot locally. And that taught me so much about business, closing deals, customer relationships, how that works, beating competition in the area. There's a million stories I can share about that, going to market, not knowing anything. I didn't even know how to stain a deck. We just did it and learned and rolled with the punches. But that is what I really brought into me brought with me to HubSpot, which is rolling with the failures. Like, I just do and fail, fail, fail, and then I win. And that's kind of what I try to do with anything I do. And so HubSpot, funny enough, I had a sales class in college and I went to college just because people tell you should. That's like a piece of advice that like maybe you don't need to go to college. In sales, but that's why I did it and I don't regret it. It was a great experience, but I knew I was going into sales, either medical or software. And I took a class in college, sales class. My professor was Robin, good friend of mine still, shout out Robin. And it was actually on Salesforce. And so that was my first exposure to CRMs. I had never heard of CRMs before, and through that I was curious and started to do research on what other CRMs are out there. Found HubSpot, applied, the rest is history.

7:32 Scott Ingram: Nice, nice. Let's keep going on this figuring it out theme because I… that was the part for me that was the most interesting of kind of your story, and I think where you really found that success in HubSpot is you found your own way. What was that both the process? You talked about the failure piece, right? What were the falling on your face elements of that? And then at what point did you figure it out?

7:56 Camden Roncka: Yeah, that's a really good question. I would say the first thing that I think about is I just do in terms of action. Like, I will be the first to tell you, I have no idea what I'm doing with a lot of things. Like, I don't know, I don't have the answers for things. The difference is I don't really care. Like, I'm going to do those things and learn Anyway, and so right away, I really also make things as simple as possible. A lot of people, this might be a little bit long-winded, but I think it's important to how like I think of it is I think a lot of people frame situations as something that is more than it should be, or like maybe something's harder than it should be. And going back to the mentality thing, like I think everything, reality is what you make it. And so for me, I always thought this is… at first it was really challenging and scary and difficult, but then I started to reframe it as this is simple. This is just communicating with people. This is just making calls. This is just having a conversation. It's no more difficult than that. And when I actually believed that it's that simple, when I actually believed that things started to change for me. And it's a simple answer, but there is no magic bullet. It's really that simple. It all comes down to if you actually believe that you can achieve something, then like you will do that.

9:17 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. I love the bias to action, right? That was the thing I had backwards early in my career, right? It took me a long time to figure out because I wanted to intellectually have it all figured out. I wanted all of the answers before I'd take that action. And again, it took me a really long time to recognize actually You will learn a lot faster and figure out what that answer is just by doing it. Just run at the wall a bunch of times and you'll figure out where the door is eventually versus just trying to think about where might the door be.

9:48 Camden Roncka: 100%. 100%. And it's like, there's another… I forgot the movie. Someone will find it. But the quote is, the biggest lie I was ever told is it's not that simple. That is the quote. And I totally relate to that. Like people say, it's not that simple. It is that simple. It is that simple. It is.

10:09 Scott Ingram: Yeah. I love that. I love that. I don't know if you'll have an amazing answer for this, cause this is, I guess, maybe usually a later career question and you've only had kind of one sales job, but I wonder if you were starting over today, maybe it was coming out of high school, maybe it's that decision in college. Is there anything that you would have done differently or thought about differently from a career perspective?

10:28 Camden Roncka: Honestly, not really. Like I will tell you though, that college isn't required for sales. Like, I know that's not some crazy idea. People have said that in the past. I'm just doubling down on that. I will say though, like, I wouldn't have changed anything there. I think I learned a lot from college, not necessarily from my degree or the education, but more around how the world works, relationships and things like that that I would never, ever change or ever throw away. I think there's some truth too for people who are younger that might be listening. Yes, it's true. You don't have to go to college. There's people I know that are in sales jobs that are younger than me, and that's freaking cool. That's so awesome. You are absolutely giving yourself a huge leg up on your life. But I will also say, to play devil's advocate on the people against college, I think the experiences and things you learn there honestly could even outweigh getting a head start that early. I wouldn't change anything, but thought that would be a good comment. And to your point, I can't really comment on much more. But that's what I have for you.

11:32 Scott Ingram: Yeah, it feels like such a double-edged sword, and I think that decision point is getting even harder, especially with how quickly AI is developing and all these things you have on one side. Gosh, if I don't go to college, it almost ties back to my overthinking analogy. I could actually be doing that thing I want to do for 3 or 4 years and have real experience, which is always the catch-22 coming out of college. It's like, oh, we want people with experience. How am I going to get experience if you won't give me experience? You have that challenge, but then the flip side is I think there's just a lot of, especially at that age, there's just a lot of figuring it out, figuring yourself out, having that community and that environment and the relationships that you build and the network that you build and going through that with a group of people is really important too. And again, everybody has to run their own value equation against that, but it's not an easy thing. But again, to your point, if sales is the destination, I don't know that you really need a degree. My very first real traditional sales job, I went to ADP and that was a check-the-box thing. For them, it was, you're not working here without a college degree. So I was like, okay, I'm able to check this box. But I think that's the only time in my entire career that's been true. And had I had experience somewhere else, so it's just a fascinating time. And I think you really need to think critically about that decision point now, because it's different. I think the math has changed and holy hell, college is freaking expensive now. I know, because I've got 2 girls that are headed in that direction.

13:07 Camden Roncka: Yeah, no doubt. And also from a perspective, everyone wants different things in life and I respect that. But for me and like what I'm looking for is I wanted to be different anyway. And to do that, you have to take a path that people aren't taking. That might not be going to college. For me, it was I never really cared about my grades or anything that much, which was crazy to people, but to me, I knew it wasn't a big deal. Like, it wasn't why I was there.

13:31 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Nobody ever looks at your college transcript, right? It's again, check the box. Did you finish? Cool. Yes or no.

13:38 Camden Roncka: It's about what did you do? And what did I do? That decking company during college, that was absolutely worth it. That's all I had on my resume, really.

13:46 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

13:47 Camden Roncka: And that was it.

13:48 Scott Ingram: Awesome. Well, I mean, the show is called Sales Success Stories, so maybe we should talk about your favorite sales story. It might even be a loss, right? It might be one where you fell on your face, but what's your favorite story to date?

14:01 Camden Roncka: Favorite story in general?

14:03 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

14:03 Camden Roncka: I would say my favorite story would probably be more of an accomplishment as well, but the backstory is interesting, would be hitting Founders Club last year, which is a pretty prestigious award here at HubSpot. Really why that's the most important to me is just because when I had, like, I had just started as an account executive the prior year in August or July. So I was brand new, super green to this whole thing. And a lot of people, again, just psych themselves out about the role, about more of imposter syndrome, honestly. And I felt that for sure. And I was really grappling with how do I learn these things? How do I do these things? Like, how am I going to figure this out? And fast forward to last year, starting a new calendar year, I had not really figured it out to the extent that I was looking for yet. And I remember in January thinking, this isn't what I'm trying to achieve. What I'm doing isn't enough and it's not going to work. And I'm telling this story because I lived it. And I think a lot of people can relate to that where like I was concerned and I was like, I don't know if this is for me. I don't know if I can figure this out or do this. And really what changed is just having complete faith. And it was scary because I didn't have a choice. I had to either figure it out or not. And I just said, you know what, I'm going to just do the best that I can do. And I don't think that this is that complicated. And I'm really gonna make it super simple and I'm just gonna go with that. And whatever happens happens. I'm gonna try my best, but in my mind, I can achieve this thing. I can do it. I can achieve this. And I did. Things just started to click for me. I didn't do anything that crazy besides having consistent motions, consistent processes, and ultimately subscribing to being myself. And I know that sounds again cliché or maybe Wow, is that all it is? It is like I just did me and the rest was history.

16:10 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

16:10 Camden Roncka: Happy to get into that more throughout this because there's more there, but that's my favorite story because it's personal. I feel like it's relatable because I was at risk at that point and ultimately made it work.

16:22 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. Let's go super deep on this because I think it is maybe one of the most important things, especially when you're early in your career. Like this is the first time you've done this. It's the first time you're in this kind of a role. Did you get to a point where you felt like, oh, that maybe took longer than I thought, but I feel like I have figured it out? Have you gotten to that point yet?

16:44 Camden Roncka: In terms of what specifically?

16:47 Scott Ingram: However you would define it, because you had that expectation of, I need to figure this out. You said you felt like you hadn't at the beginning of the year. When did it start to click? How did it click?

16:56 Camden Roncka: It all clicked when you just… and this is what's strange about having the mentality, because everyone's also heard this. I heard this before I had experienced it, but you have to wait. Whatever you believe you can achieve and you can't like fake believe it. There's been instances when I've heard that and I'm like, all right, I can go do this. But deep down you're like, yeah, I don't know. If you have that, it doesn't, it's not going to work. And so really the key and really the really hard part of it all is genuinely having that confidence that you can do that and the reality that you're looking for, you actually believe in. And so for me, I just sat down. I really think a lot and I really look at like data and just things in general about why things are the way they are, how things work the way that they do. And to me, I'm just like, you know what? I've been doing this in my life. Like sales, HubSpot's a big company, software can be a buzzword or it can be complicated to folks, or sometimes people think it's certain things about the job. But for me, I was just like, you know what? All I'm doing is having a conversation with somebody and I'm not trying to sell them. I'm not trying to pitch them or do any of this quote sales motion. I'm simply just here and I'm going to treat it like my business. That's what I know. And when I did that and had conversations with people normally, I told them the truth about stuff. I gave them actual suggestions and things that I believe about a certain thing or how it works or my perspective. People can realize that you're being real and being authentic. And that's ultimately what swayed and changed things for me.

18:38 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. I think it ties back to 2 things. I think one is probably the biggest mistake that we make when we come into sales. And I say we, because this was totally me too. Is we have this basically wrong conception about what sales is, and we try to adopt that persona. Like, oh, I'm a salesperson now, I'm supposed to do these awkward, uncomfortable, manipulative things, and it doesn't work.

19:09 Camden Roncka: I'm with you.

19:10 Scott Ingram: And it's not until you go, you know what, let me just do this kind of my way. And The question I always get asked, I've done, gosh, I'm coming up on, I think, 200 of these interviews with top performers. So everybody wants to know what is the thing. To me, the number one thing is belief, but I think there's multiple pieces of belief. Like one, what you described is you have to believe in yourself. You have to truly believe I can do this. I will figure out a way. I will make it happen. I think you also have to believe in your process. You have to believe that the way that I'm going to do this is going to work. It might take more reps than somebody else who's further along and does higher quality reps. So maybe I need to put in more, but I believe it's going to work. And then I think the other super important part is you have to believe in what you're selling because otherwise, again, it's just another form of bullshit. That's not true. And Anthony Iannarino has my favorite quote. About sales, he says sales is just a transference of belief. If you don't believe in the thing, then there's nothing to transfer.

20:19 Camden Roncka: Yeah, I'm with you too. And like, I'm with you on that for sure, because there's things with HubSpot I genuinely believe in the transformation it can make, obviously, but it's not obviously. Some people don't, to your point of like what they're selling or who they're involved with. And it definitely helps you when you are coming from a place that isn't transactional or You're just trying to sell something. People absolutely can see that. And to your point, going further, and this is kind of a hot take, but it's just real, is like, there is no answers in sales because nobody has the answer. And I say this all the time because the people who claim they have answers or things that are being consumed is wrong in my opinion. And even what I'm saying right now could be completely irrelevant in A year from now. The people who have the answers are the ones in the arena. And I'm not throwing any shade on anybody else, but that's just the fact of the matter, myself included. It's just really tough when there isn't this playbook and then people think there's playbooks. There's not because things are changing every fricking week, every quarter. Dude, look at what's happening around with AI and stuff like those stuff I have to learn and pivot and change on a daily basis is ridiculous and it will never change.

21:35 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that is exactly why I started this show, because to your point, there's all these people saying, oh, this is the way, this is the playbook, this is how you have to do it. I ask the question, when was the last time you ran that playbook? If you haven't carried a quota in a decade, I have questions. I don't think I believe.

21:54 Camden Roncka: Yeah, this is my favorite topic because it's a hot button topic. I love hot button topics and I'll speak my mind on things for sure, but it's like My thing is, I always say this quote from The Incredibles, if everyone was super, no one would be. And all that's saying is really, it's such a good quote. It's just saying if everyone was a superhero, then there are no superheroes, right? And so the things that have worked in the past, like you, I'm not even saying they're not good. I'm sure that they did work and I'm sure that they're awesome, but when everyone does them, it's no longer going to work because what really does work is being different and doing the things that people are not doing. And that's the perpetual battle that literally continues forever.

22:41 Scott Ingram: Yeah. What are some of those things? You've definitely got some hot takes and you go counter on a lot of, oh, everybody says do it this way. You're like, nope, I do it completely the opposite way. Give us a couple of those. Yeah.

22:53 Camden Roncka: Can't give out all my secrets for sure, but I can give away some because they're not applicable now because They have died and I've used them, but they're always changing. So what I'm about to say, it might not be applicable. It could be in 2 years. They're not now. I'm not running a lot of the things I'm about to share right now because they're not going to work, at least for me. But even things like I would hear a lot of, you only need to do personalized outreach. You need to do this. You can't send a bunch of emails. Like I only ran burn and churn and it worked. That was completely counter to what everyone was saying and it worked, right? Oh, you can't do These things, you need to set an upfront contract. I never set upfront contracts ever. I think that you're putting yourself at a disadvantage immediately by the first thing you do is doing something everyone else is doing. I think right away you're literally putting yourself in a position to lose. It's a hot take, 100%, but I live that and I believe that. Yeah.

23:52 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Talk about a video on or off.

23:54 Camden Roncka: Video off. I still do that. That's kind of my thing. I'll own that. That is my thing. And there's a lot of reasons I do that because the biggest reason is you have to play the game. Like, you can't make the rules, right? Like, the game and the truth of the matter is you get judged for your appearance. You get judged for what you say, for how you are, who you are. For me, I'm young. I'm a young guy. And I know that people judge me for that. And that's fine. That's life. That's how it works. And instead of me complaining about that or doing whatever, no problem. I'm going to adapt to that and play to that, to try to make it an advantage. And that's going camera off. Right. And I do that because many reasons. One, I think that it makes, it helps me from a perspective of I'm not getting judged for being so young or maybe for wearing a backwards hat sometimes, cause I don't do my hair every morning, things like that. So I'm not getting judged off the rip there. But also because it's a pattern interrupt, right? Everyone's on camera. So even simple things like that, I live what I say when I try to really be different in how I'm approaching things. And it makes people sometimes uncomfortable. And that's really the space that I want to operate in.

25:08 Scott Ingram: Love it. Love it. We talked about the accomplishment side. What about the challenge side? And I'm interested in kind of 2 perspectives of this. Maybe the first piece is the before it clicked for you. Like what was the biggest challenge? How did you work through that? And then I'd also like to hear Now in kind of this new role and in this space of, okay, now I've had some success, what continues to challenge you?

25:31 Camden Roncka: Yeah, this is awesome because the new role I'm in is completely different. And that's what I'm looking for is like a brand new challenge. And it's totally a new challenge. And I don't have the answers. I don't have the playbook for this new role. I do not. I believe that I can find the answers and I believe I can find the systems, but I don't have And that's what excites me about it. In terms of the last role, what are you curious about specifically?

25:58 Scott Ingram: What's the hardest thing?

26:00 Camden Roncka: The hardest thing, the hardest thing is really understanding. I would say this again, a lot of the stuff that I would share is simple, but again, it is that simple is how do you manage your time? How do you manage your process? That's such a simple thing. Like, really, that's it? Yes. Because without the process, you have nothing. And without what you mentioned, being confident in that process, you also have nothing. So what is the process? There's some stuff in there that, again, like, I didn't have the answers. You don't have the answers. The next guy doesn't have the answers. You are no different from me. We're not any different from each other. I don't have some gift or secret that you don't have. It's just that I tried and failed and then built the processes around those outcomes. And you look at the data and you will find the answer. I will even tell you, like, you only lose if you give up. So like for the people out there that, you know, you get pipped out or you get fired or you leave, like, that's not necessarily a loss. Yeah, that would suck. And that would hurt in the moment, but you gotta continue. And like, you're not a loser unless you give up. You give up and I'm going to tell you that you're a loser because you lost. But if you continue and fight and you will get the answers, you will succeed at some point. You will.

27:24 Scott Ingram: Yep.

27:25 Camden Roncka: I've failed over and over and over. And it's like, I'm not a winner either. I win sometimes, but that's been through many times of losing.

27:34 Scott Ingram: Dig it. I love the simplicity of managing your time. Cause at the same time, it is the most complex thing in the world because you have an infinite number of things. That you could put into what you do with that time. So let's break that apart in super granular detail. Here's how I like to ask this question. Tell me about what time does your alarm typically go off? I want the blow-by-blow, like your morning routine, your work routine, your evening routine until your head hits the pillow again.

28:02 Camden Roncka: Okay. It changes based off of my goals, which again, you can't fake your goals. You just can't. You just can't. Trust me, again, I'm no different than you. You probably know what I'm saying, but you really can't because I'll kind of take you role by role, but I've always been excited to work, which sometimes makes people go crazy or like they just don't get it. And if you don't get it, I would say that's a problem, seriously, because work can suck, meaning it's a job. Let's be honest, it's a job, but Do you actually enjoy what you're doing? And it's again, all about this frame and mindset, which is how I sell, which is how I do everything is about frame. What is it? Well, it can suck, but it can also be great. You look at a situation, it can be 2 things can be true. I remember when I was at BDR, I'd wake up at, oh man, I would wake up at like 7, which isn't even that early, but I would rush to my office and start hammering the phones immediately. Like it was crazy. I look back and I'm like, what was my deal? I was so motivated to make it happen. And I was so motivated. And in my brain, it was no more simple than I'm going to make the most calls. I'm going to book the most meetings. And I try to do that. And I did sometimes. And it just started by, I was so excited to do my job immediately.

29:22 Scott Ingram: What drove that? Why did you feel the need to make that happen?

29:27 Camden Roncka: It's the underdog thing. There's like some truth to that, but there's some like, I always am a big guy on like delusion too. You can be delusional. I think that's good for you at some points of like believing things that can motivate you. The truth of the matter is when I was younger, I definitely felt more overlooked because I wasn't your classic. I never got good grades. I wasn't in sports. Like I wasn't your classic what good looks like. You know what I mean? So I feel like that's a real example of like, I was overlooked and I did feel that way. And I did feel different throughout my story that I shared of everyone else I was around had a normal high school experience. Everyone else I was around had some support in college. Those are things that made me an outsider. And like, I leaned into that, which to me is like, I have this chip on my shoulder of, yeah, I don't have an advantage. So what? I can achieve this too. I try to think that of like, I'm young. I do know that I'm judged for that and maybe less now from accomplishments, but people that don't know me, who's this guy? Like this guy, he's had one job. He has no idea what he's talking about. Those are the things that I like lean into of, and I look at greats a lot too that do that. But like Tom Brady, I think, I think that he kind of does that too, where like, if you really listen to what he says, he's always talking about These guys think I'm washed, or like this guy thinks that I'm old, or it's always something. And that's what drives him to be the best he can be.

30:58 Scott Ingram: I was at a, I was at a conference earlier this week and one of the keynotes was a guy named Rishad Tobaccowala. He wrote a book called Rethinking Work. And he said 2 things that really stuck with me is one thought was a lot of this was kind of AI specific, just the, as we're working through all of these changes. He said, you have to think like an immigrant. And what's interesting is there's also been a through line of success. Like I've interviewed a lot of immigrants and you have that same mindset. And he said this, he said, you have to have kind of this outsider mindset. I'm not on the inside. I don't have all the answers. So I'm going to have to work harder and I'm going to have to figure it all out. And I think with that, there's also an underdog piece. It's like, I've got a chip on my shoulder and I've got something to prove. That was one piece. The other thing he said I thought was so awesome was he said, I think You have to basically be psychotic right now because you have to keep doing and keep grinding on what's working right now. But you also have to be working to disrupt yourself and figuring out what's that thing that's going to work in the future. And you have to be building that now. I think you can think about that from a lot of different perspectives, right? You can think about that As a business or from an organizational perspective, but I think you can think of it in ourselves too. Yeah, this is what I've traditionally been good at, and this is what I've traditionally done. But if I'm going to be better than myself, I'm going to have to be comfortable with getting away from some of those things and trying new stuff that's going to be better six months from now, a year from now, three years from now.

32:37 Camden Roncka: Yeah, I'm with you. It's always like a chess match. You're exactly right. I always think of that because again. What's working doesn't work tomorrow. I've lived that for a few years and it's so, so true. That is literally the challenge. I've thought about that before, but like everything else is still relevant. A lot of it's noise, but really is the challenge is like, oh man, trying to find out what works now is grueling and you have to forge your own path and dig through a ton of data and really try a bunch of stuff and have super late nights and just think and think and think. And then you find it, you win. It's awesome.

33:16 Scott Ingram: Wow.

33:17 Camden Roncka: Great. Good job, dude. And it's gone in a month and it doesn't work anymore. And that's like life. It's just this roller coaster of you get up, you get punched, you get up and you get punched, you get up, you get punched, and then you win. And it's awesome. And that's like what you chase is that winning moment when everything's great. And then it restarts again. And you have to do it again.

33:42 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Let's go back to the time dissection. Give us kind of the detailed walkthrough of a day in the life right now. And sure, this evolves and it totally changes. It's definitely different from the way I described it on the podcast of my own day, way, way back when.

33:56 Camden Roncka: Yeah. So let's keep going. So then I promoted up. BDR, not much to say besides I woke up not that early, grinded all day, went to bed, you know, got off, whatever, went to the gym. I just worked most of the time. I work a lot too. That's something else. I work and do business most of my time. And some people might have opinions and be like, oh, that's sad. Or that's lame or whatever. And it's like, you can have your opinions. My thing is I'm really happy. Ultimately you can say what you want, but like, it's the truth and it's my life and I'm happy doing business and working all the time. That said, when I moved up to an account executive, yeah, I'm working all the time. I mean, let's be honest. And in my free time, I run my businesses. So I'm also working on the weekends. It's what gives me fulfillment. It's definitely a reason that helps you be good is sheer volume and work. There's no secret there. My day, I would wake up again, not that crazy early, 7 or 8. Some days I'd wake up at 9, like Fridays, I probably wake up at 9. It's my like off chill day of the week usually. And all day. There's no secret. All day I'm just grinding. Like I'm literally prospecting and doing the shitty work 90% of the time. The magic happens in the 10% that follows that, but I'm working from 7, 8 to 5 at minimum every day. But honestly, from 5 to 8 or 9, I'm still visiting my computer or at bare minimum thinking about strategy. So I drive around a lot. I drive around a lot. It's a weird thing I do that people think is interesting. So I'll just literally go in my car and drive aimlessly around and I'll listen to music and stuff, but it's like, I'm thinking about stuff. I'm just thinking about how can I maneuver this? How can I tweak this? How can I checkmate this situation? I think in strategy and like moves ahead, and I really map out how I'm going to tackle things into the future. I definitely relate to what you said. I mean, it's about acting now, but also how am I pivoting and setting myself up for a checkmate months down the road? And how am I positioning myself against other chess players as well? Right. Of what are they thinking the move is? What is the move? How can I still pivot from that? So most of my time is just spent thinking. So if it's not directly at my computer, I'm still thinking about something business related from HubSpot or in general. And a lot of the stuff outside of HubSpot, which is my personal businesses, still help me and vice versa. So it's just real, this big meshed pool of business strategy that I'm really consuming my life with all the time.

36:36 Scott Ingram: When does the driving happen? That's a fascinating thing.

36:39 Camden Roncka: Probably right after this Friday evening, for sure. Oh yeah. Always at nights. It just helps clear my head. I do it on weekends too, always. So tomorrow, early morning, definitely out there.

36:52 Scott Ingram: That is fascinating. It's kind of like, I imagine a lot of people, they have ahas in the shower. I imagine that it's sort of a similar type of thing. And you're like, when did you figure that out? Has this always been a thing or did you just kind of realize, you know what, I do my best thinking in the car with, you know, maybe I need my body like a little bit occupied.

37:10 Camden Roncka: Yeah, that's good. I haven't thought of that. Yeah, this is cool. Probably. I mean, it's something I've always enjoyed is driving around. So like, here's another disclaimer for people that are like, this is nuts. I live on the edge of town. It's all winding roads with no traffic and no stoplights. That's kind of nice. If you haven't experienced it, it's really nice. And then There's cornfields and sunset. It's beautiful. It's awesome. I go by the river. I have a little routine.

37:36 Scott Ingram: We should call out, you're in Omaha, right?

37:38 Camden Roncka: Right, right.

37:39 Scott Ingram: Yep.

37:40 Camden Roncka: The edge of Omaha.

37:41 Scott Ingram: That sounds like a title of a book or something.

37:43 Camden Roncka: Yeah, probably.

37:44 Scott Ingram: The Edge of Omaha. I like it.

37:45 Camden Roncka: Yeah, for real. It started when I started to work, I think, which is interesting, but it's also, again, like I'm doing this right now. I've not thought of this before, but it's like, I have always enjoyed driving around, but it really started. It's like my, escape to think. It's kind of like that thing where, you know, Jesus would go up on the Mount, for example, and think about things that he thought about. Everyone has like a place. I'm sure Steph Curry and people have their spot of kind of sanctuary. And it's kind of like mine is that's like my place where I do work and I call people in there. I'm always like, I'm doing something. I'm like making audio notes on my phone. I'm like sending myself texts. I'm like really trying to figure stuff out in there.

38:27 Scott Ingram: That's fascinating. Are there any other habits or routines that are kind of central to your success other than what I've discussed?

38:36 Camden Roncka: Not really. Besides, I will tell you that the business thing is a huge indicator of success of people I've talked to that have like side hustles. Like what I'm doing now is nothing to brag about. They're just like little side businesses that makes a huge difference. In my mind, I'm actively involved in business all the time. Like I just closed, like for example, like 2 weeks ago I closed a large deal on a side business that is like, puts you, it puts it into perspective of what money's worth. And it's like, I have a side business that I'm running at not even seriously caring about. And I, you know, close a solid deal, like over 10 grand. And it's like, what is value? How do you think of things? Like it's my own thing. When it's your own thing too, running a process or what you say is different, that just really helps you come across as human as well. So again, it all helps. Everything is helpful for me from what I do here and what I do out of this. And I would call that a habit just because it is. I do it regularly and it's something that helps me tremendously.

39:40 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

39:40 Camden Roncka: Being involved with people. Most of my friends, not most, but a lot of them have their own businesses or have left companies, I'm always talking to them and it gives me really good insight on how people are thinking about things, what people actually care about. And that goes back to this idea of things are always changing, being in the know and just being consistent really.

40:04 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

40:04 Camden Roncka: Yeah.

40:05 Scott Ingram: Love that. What about your information diet? What are you listening to? What are you reading? What are you watching? And when does that happen?

40:11 Camden Roncka: I'm always consuming content. I'm not a guy that watches or reads certain people's stuff, I will tell you, when I started HubSpot, I read Fanatical Prospecting. I actually was thinking about reading that book again because it's so simple. The reviews of that is, this is stupid. All this guy says is make emails and calls. And I'm like, that is the most ironic thing I've ever… that's exactly the point. People just miss the point. And it's like, right in front of their face. I've done it. I'm not saying that I am good at that either. I'm just saying that a lot of the times the answer is literally like, you know the answer most of the time. It's just like actually doing it. That's a good book. It is just him ranting about making calls and emails. But if you read the book from start to finish, you will be like, all right, I get this. Make calls, make emails. It's helpful. In terms of now, I'm always consuming content from places in general. Big AI guy. I ask AI everything and things of why do you think about this? How does… what am I missing here? Debate me. I always like to hear, this is what I think, you debate me on this. And let's have a conversation. I want to be very clear, I do not think I have the answers or anything. I'm very curious about, this is what I think, why am I wrong? Tell me, I want to know. Let's talk about this. What am I missing? I want the full picture so I can understand how people are viewing a situation. A lot of content consumed from my own thoughts about someone asking about someone to spit that back on a counterpoint. And then LinkedIn, just in general, I'm not big on like certain sales guys. Like I would say, like hot take again, people are selling courses, good for them. People are selling content, great for you. That's cool. I think that would be really neat to do someday, but it's a business. I respect it. It's impressive. I wouldn't get your content from places like that. That's my, another hot take. I'm happy to discuss that all the time. So I try to avoid that stuff. I try to avoid… I'm looking for very interesting things that I've never seen, things that I'm like, okay, this is weird thing. I will say this kind of relates to probably other topics people are curious about. I will say the person I usually share this, because this is kind of a trick, I would say the person I credit a lot of stuff to And like where I learn everything from that I've… everything I run is from this, is from an unknown individual. And it's Bowtied Sales Guy, if you've ever heard of it.

42:40 Scott Ingram: I haven't. I'll have to look that up.

42:42 Camden Roncka: Yeah, that's where I run every… like that completely. Like that is what I do.

42:46 Scott Ingram: Nice, nice, nice. It goes back to the why I created the podcast. Like I'm most interested in learning from people who You don't have an ulterior motive. You're not trying to sell me your course, your book, your coaching, your whatever. This is just…

43:02 Camden Roncka: whoa, whoa, whoa. Don't say that just yet. I'm…

43:05 Scott Ingram: yeah, it's just that let's talk to the people who are actually doing it and just have a real conversation and get into the weeds and figure this out. And for me, really anything I consume content-wise, right? Whether it's a podcast, it's a book, it's somebody's talk, right? I mean, I just gave the example, like I watched, I mean, that keynote was probably 45 minutes. I'm like, I'm like, 2 points, I'm good. I'm just looking for, I just want that 1 or 2 little gold nuggets and it might only look like gold to me, but hey, that's something I can try. That's something that resonates. Let me kind of play with that. It's not like I'm not going to run that entire system. That's sure, that works for you. But you did say that 1 interesting thing. Yeah. I'm going to give that a shot. That's interesting.

43:47 Camden Roncka: Yeah. And also there's that 1 country song too, that like, it's called like Famous Friends and he's talking about people back home that no one knows are famous. That's another good point of like, dude, some of the smartest people are people you don't even know. There are people that I know here. One of the best sales guys I've ever met in my life used to work here. And like, nobody knows who he is. And I think he was a killer. I learned a lot from him and like, you would never know who that is. I think like a lot of my content comes from people here. Shout out, you know who you are here. We discuss and talk about, that's what makes me better. Iron sharpens iron. Listening to what even like all my managers I've had have been absolutely phenomenal. Genuinely, even my new manager is fantastic and I've learned so much and like, that's where I consume my content from. Yeah.

44:36 Scott Ingram: Yeah. That's fantastic. And have you had kind of the freedom and support that you needed? Because I think one of the things that can be difficult is when you are taking these unique approaches and you're really trying to find your way. That's maybe different from this is the set expectation that we have, right? We want you to do it this way and you're deviating from that. Do you get much pushback on that? How do you deal with that situation?

45:02 Camden Roncka: That's a tough one for sure. Like, obviously results speak for themselves. Treating things like a business is welcome, and that's what being creative, that's what HubSpot is. They definitely welcome that kind of stuff. I will say it's definitely a big issue in general, not here, but other places. And I feel bad for folks and companies that are running things that way. I think that you're missing a lot. The story I always reference, it's so true, is Napoleon. He went on this tear and just destroyed everybody with nothing. And it was because he ran like a fast maneuvered efficient offense of war and no one was doing it. He would, everyone was doing this legacy, like they pull up with tons of armored this and that, and oh, we've got the big guns, like we're gonna outgun you. And he's like, all right, fine, I'm gonna outplay you in general. Game on. He would come up with, on paper, terrible, like would get smashed, but he played his game and it was by being adaptive and by being creative. There's a whole document that I like, I always say this too, like the answers are in front of you. Go look at history. The people who win are doing things differently. That's the truth. Go look around. If you don't believe me, go There's hundreds of years of proof of this. Napoleon did that and he destroyed, and everyone told him not to do it. Everyone said it was a bad idea and he won. Look at the tush push on the Eagles. Everyone said it was a bad idea. Everyone said it was stupid. They destroyed everybody. Ben Johnson for the Bears. Everyone said you can't use these people for these things. That's stupid. That's a waste. He whipped everybody's butt. There's a million examples. The flip side is true. Napoleon actually started to lose when he became the thing that he hated the most, which is when you get more power and more stuff, he started to get conservative and he didn't want to take those risks, which ultimately led to his downfall. How interesting and ironic is that? That is a beautiful story. And that is why I get it. Your company, whatever. I understand. I get it, but you're really hurting yourself. You just are. And that's just a fact. There's a lot of good ideas. I've learned so many good ideas from people here. Again, the people that have the answers are in the arena. Listen to them. Let them try things. Those are the answers.

47:20 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, I feel like this is one of the biggest gaps and challenges that I'm seeing with sales management these days. Think about all that you've talked through in the beginning of this is you're having to constantly adapt and constantly try new things because what worked last month isn't working right now. So the only way to get through that isn't to keep doing the wrong thing. It's to find what is right now. We're actually going to do… I've got a panel I'm putting together about just overcoming bad bosses at the summit this year, because I'm seeing this all over the place to the point where, again, many top performers that I've had on this podcast, their biggest obstacles to success is a manager that's in their way. And what's happening in so many of these cases is they're trying to impose their way on people rather than giving them the freedom to just say, hey, look, you tell me your way. How do I support you in you finding your thing? Rather than this, I want to make management too easy and manage by the numbers, and if everybody does the same numbers, maybe we'll get these results. It's a huge, huge issue. And what I always say is, if you had somebody on your team who could fly. Literally, they have a cape, they can fly around the freaking room. Would you lock them in a phone booth like everybody else? That's stupid.

48:40 Camden Roncka: Yeah. Yeah, you're exactly right. And it comes down to kind of how sales works too, of you can't convince or force anybody to do anything. Like, that's the misconception that everybody has is, oh, how do I convince them to buy this? That's literally not how it works. Like, you are looking at it the exact opposite way, in my opinion. Same with like management from that perspective. Like, listen, best practices, all these things. Absolutely. That's building a really good baseline for a performance foundation. That's great. And like people want to do that, but the best way to deliver a piece of feedback like that would be, hey Scott, this is your idea that you just shared with me. I really appreciate you bringing that to the table. I think that's a super unique and creative way to think about it. Here's my concerns about it. XYZ. I want you to do this. Do it. Let's talk about it next week. Boom. I'm giving you my opinion. I'm not telling you you're an idiot or you don't do this or whatever. I'm just saying, hey man, again, kind of like that ChatGPT, like I'm giving you a counter perspective, making sure that you've thought about this. Cool. You have, you want to do it? Let's do it, man. Prove me wrong. I would love that. All we're trying to do is find the answer. That's it.

49:48 Scott Ingram: Totally. And I'm a huge fan of like the split test, the A/B test, right? Like, tell you what, I'm going to do it half this way and half this other way. And let's just look at the numbers. Let the results tell us what the answer is rather than guessing and overthinking the front end and going 100% of, oh, if I picked 100% the wrong way, well, I'm not going to get any results, am I?

50:09 Camden Roncka: Yeah, I love that. I mean, a lot of that too that really opened my eye is I used to do debate and we'd have a topic and you go into a room and you flip a coin. You have to argue for or against the idea and you don't even know. When you walk in a room and you would win on both. But see, that's so interesting. There are no answers. There is no right or wrong. Like, there's opinions in how you frame something and how you talk about something or how something seems or how something feels or how something makes you feel. But there's not an absolute really on anything. Yeah, ever.

50:43 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. Did you debate in high school? Yeah. Yeah. See, that's another thing that I think is overlooked, right? Everybody wants… they want the athletes like, oh, I want people that played team sports and did all this. And the belief is they're gonna have this work ethic, they're gonna be competitive, yada, yada, yada. Debate is, I swear, a hidden talent of… there's been a lot of people on this show who've been debaters.

51:06 Camden Roncka: Really?

51:07 Scott Ingram: Oh yeah, it's a thing. It is definitely a thing. I don't ask about it enough. It's one of those things like if you don't directly ask the question, you don't always get to it. But it's so fascinating when it comes up and I haven't gotten to it a lot on the podcast. I've discovered it for one reason or another. We'll find it in a summit, like it'll come up in those conversations.

51:23 Camden Roncka: That's so cool.

51:24 Scott Ingram: It's fascinating to me.

51:25 Camden Roncka: I loved, I mean, it was the coolest thing ever. It doesn't like exist now, like really on politics. I'm not interested in doing that as a career, but it's like, it was so fun to, you get up there and you like have a point and then like you have to back up the point with actual evidence or like frame of why we should look at it this way. When you would win, you would feel it. It was the best feeling ever. Like you could just tell that the other side was crumbling and you've done nothing besides lay an argument or make a point. And it was like the coolest thing. You can feel that with sales too, like a crux point where you've won the room or you've won the situation. You can feel that.

52:05 Scott Ingram: I think it's so much more directly applicable, right? Still competitive, still kind of team sport, but it's way more intellectual than most physical sports are anyway. It's just an interesting thing that's come up that, that and Again, there's been a good number of teachers, giant career change, but I think that idea of you develop a lot of patience, right? You learn to kind of explain things and all of this stuff. It's fascinating, the translation of skillset there. Camden, I'm curious about kind of tools and apps. Like, what is the tech that you can't live without?

52:42 Camden Roncka: A lot of stuff here that we've made is absolutely phenomenal. So that's like, people just can't access that. Great. I'm using a lot of stuff all the time that HubSpot has under our toolset. Not just plugging HubSpot, but again, genuinely phenomenal enablement and tools on this side of the, uh, the street. If you guys wanna evaluate HubSpot, ping me on LinkedIn. But other than that, man, AI for sure. Big name ones, ChatGPT, Gemini. I mean, dude, you've really gotta use that stuff. I've got people that own businesses that are my buddies who talk into it on a voice note every day about everything that happened, how they were feeling, why they were feeling that way. Which they have 6 months of data collected and now they can go into and ask it, hey, why am I feeling this way? What is this? And there's a guy who's doing that one, a really good buddy of mine. Not to go off the rails here, but it's important context where their business is closing over 6 figures a month now. Just started the business earlier this year. He's leveraged that as well. It's a good buddy of mine named Zach here locally. Simple tools like that, if you use them and know how to use them and know what you're doing, That's it. I don't use any complicated tools. There's not some crazy tool I'm using or some new start. No. LinkedIn, my phone, Gmail, ChatGPT, Gemini, and like a lead scraping tool. That's it.

54:02 Scott Ingram: Nice. Do you subscribe to a particular sales philosophy?

54:06 Camden Roncka: No big ones. I would call mine more of, um, frame or almost like therapy. Sounds weird.

54:15 Scott Ingram: Nice. No, I love that.

54:17 Camden Roncka: That's kind of what the bow-tied sales guy does. And I do that as well. Like there's no methodology. I just want to be myself and be authentic. That's another thing I always tell people, like, do not try to be like someone else. The answer is you. You gotta be who you are. Like the freedom in life is by action and action is being courageous. And when you have those things, can you be who you are? That's where the magic is. I'm just trying to be myself, whether people like that or not. I don't really care. That's the secret. In terms of the methodology frame, I think it's big. You can't convince any… this is my beliefs, obviously. I don't think you can convince people to buy anything. I just don't believe that. And my whole life that I've been selling and doing business, it's not about convincing people to do anything. This is another hot take, I guess, or like I could talk about this for hours. Here's a good example. You are an alcoholic. All right, cool. I think you should go to AA. If I try to convince you to do that, you are never going to AA. You are never going. Again, fact. Go do research. This is a fact. It's the same thing. Hey, you do this. This is your situation. I'm trying to like find pain and tell you, no, that is not gonna work. I have to ask you, hey Scott, Dude, it's so awesome. Like, you're a really good buddy of mine. Like, how do you feel? You give me some information. Like, all I'm trying to do is see if you think you have a problem. If you do, then I'm going to ask you, like, why haven't you done anything about it? All I'm doing is like, you have the answer. I'm trying to help you find the… you have the answer. I'm trying to give you the answer of what you already know. There's no convincing or any of this that's going on. That's my methodology.

56:04 Scott Ingram: Dig it, dig it. I like that a lot. What about stylistically? How would you describe your style in that approach?

56:11 Camden Roncka: There's not like a specific style or way I'm trying to be. I'm sorry, I don't have like an answer, but I'm not trying to be any certain way. I'm just trying to be myself. Like exactly how I talk on here is how I'm talking to people. I cuss a lot in my personal life. I'm probably cussing on here and on calls as well. I'm not trying to be somebody I'm not. I'm trying to literally be myself and that's it.

56:34 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

56:35 Camden Roncka: That's through and through, through everything. Like, I'm not going to do things that I don't do. Like, I'm not going to frame a thing a certain way or explain something that I don't believe. If I don't like something, I'm going to tell you. If I think a better tool is better, I'm going to tell you. I'm just being honest.

56:50 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yep. Yep. I think that's that thing where you talked about being different. That stuff comes through. If you're the only sales guy I'm talking to that I feel like I can trust, that's telling me the truth. That's a huge differentiator when everybody else is just trying to tell me everything they think that I want to hear.

57:09 Camden Roncka: Yeah, exactly. I want to tell you like, what's your… you know, I like to have like really hard conversations too. I like to be really uncomfortable. You know, it's like, this isn't some game or like something like, I'm not trying to run you through some pro… like, this isn't a game. People think it's like some process or like stages. It's like, it's none of that. It's whatever you want it to be. It's not some like Oh, deals take 3 months to close. It's like, they could take a week to close, maybe. It's whatever you want it to be. And obviously there's certain situations that warrant a genuine process or things, but it's like, every situation is different. They're really whatever you want them to be. You can't just try to frame or put a process on everything. You're not, it's not going to work.

57:47 Scott Ingram: Yep.

57:48 Camden Roncka: Yep.

57:48 Scott Ingram: I mean, similarly, the reason I, early in my sales career, I didn't want people to know I was in sales. Like I wanted to call myself other things. I didn't want to be that because it took me a long time to figure out the Like this wasn't what it actually is, but there was just so much manipulation. All of the, there were all these tactics and do this and here's all these weird trial closes and all these stupid lines and all this garbage. And people know when you're like, I can tell you're trying to manipulate me and it forces them. They just shut down. I don't trust you. I'm just going to run away from you and try and get out of this conversation. And as soon as you go the other direction, I just genuinely, genuinely here to help you. Like, let's figure this out. Maybe it's the right thing. Maybe it's not the right thing. I don't know. Let's talk about it.

58:40 Camden Roncka: Yeah. I mean, that's why it's so frustrating for being a buyer.

58:44 Scott Ingram: Oh my God. There's nothing worse.

58:45 Camden Roncka: No. And that's like what you're always fighting against as a seller. I mean, what you said is 100% true. When I buy stuff, I always think about stuff in a business context. It's a blessing and a curse. Even when I buy simple things, I'm like, am I getting scammed on this or not? You know, things like that. But people that like the feature dumpers and stuff, even on simple stuff like you're buying a car or something, I'm like, dude, are you serious, man? Like, are we for real right now? Or when people try to use the strategies, it's like, I'm in sales, buddy. Like, like, this sucks. Like, whatever you're doing right now, I hate it.

59:20 Scott Ingram: Yep.

59:20 Camden Roncka: That just makes… yeah, exactly. It's just funny how that goes. Yeah.

59:24 Scott Ingram: Well, I'm sure we've got a lot of stuff to talk about here, right? Because I feel like your whole approach is this. So this is kind of the What are the counter things? Is there something you believe that the average or typical sales rep would think is crazy?

59:39 Camden Roncka: I mean, we've kind of discussed a lot of this. The not upfront contract thing is definitely… I would assume people are like, that's ridiculous. He doesn't know what he's talking about. Same with camera off. Like, I'm assuming… like, I'm just saying that because nobody does it. So I'm assuming that naturally when you do stuff that people don't do, they're always going to talk about it again. And I've lived that life my whole life. I know it happens. So those are things that I would assume there's opinions around, but again, good for you. Like you can have your opinion. I think it's the right thing to do for me personally. If it's not for you, then don't do it. I absolutely respect and believe in your opinion. And you probably have something that you can do that I can't do that would be better for you. And that's the whole thing of you need to stop Listening to what do you? You got to do what makes sense for you. I go camera off because I'm young. If you're not young, it's probably better to go camera on. I mean, the same thing I said this earlier, but the same thing can be both true and false. You got to understand that.

1:00:40 Scott Ingram: Yeah. What about the flip side? What is the sales dogma? What's the thing that everybody in sales believes that you think no, that's actually wrong?

1:00:48 Camden Roncka: Convincing people or like everyone's on LinkedIn that I like read on there all the time is this like. Find a pain or whatever. I just don't. I'm sorry, you've lost me. I get that everybody talks about that. I don't ever think about that. And maybe I'm doing that naturally without like kind of thinking about it. I probably am, but I just don't think of it that way. And again, I'm not saying that I'm right in that. That's not what I'm saying. I just disagree with a lot of that, like this like pain talk. I just don't think that that's really like… I think it's just more of a cop-out of I just I get it. And there's some truth there, but I just think you're missing the forest for the trees with that one.

1:01:26 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting. I know Luke Floyd's getting ready to give a talk at the summit that is really aligned to that. He's changed his entire approach to where all of the work that he's doing in his territory is finding the people, finding the companies that actually have a need to buy.

1:01:44 Camden Roncka: Yes.

1:01:44 Scott Ingram: Like that's all that matters. Nothing else. Because to your point, you're not going to convince somebody.

1:01:49 Camden Roncka: Let's revisit this example here, right? This pain thing and this A example again. Hey, you're an alcoholic. Do you feel bad in the mornings? Do you feel bad on the daily basis? Yeah, I do. What do you think? You're probably like reducing your life. Probably you might have health issues in the future. Yeah, maybe. Dude, you're not telling anything that these guys don't know. Like, come on, dude. Again, hot take, my opinion. I believe it. So Happy to share it.

1:02:15 Scott Ingram: Yeah, dig it. Dig it. Just from like a key decision point perspective, like what have been some of the most important decisions you've had to make that kind of changed the game for you or lessons you had to learn? Like until I figured this out, it started to click or anything like that.

1:02:31 Camden Roncka: Simple stuff. Again, making the decision to work here. If I worked somewhere else, I would have quit a long time ago and probably have my own thing. I love working here. It's a great place. Other simple things too that are important though, like your partner, right? Um, who you choose to be with. Like my girlfriend Emma supports me a lot. Simple piece there, but again, impactful, I think is important. Going back to the basics, there's not some secret answer. And then again, faith as well. Like if you have foundation points in your life, I think those are the most important decisions you can make.

1:03:03 Scott Ingram: Love it. Love it. What advice would you give to somebody that's just starting out in their sales career today?

1:03:09 Camden Roncka: Yeah. Best advice for that is just be really curious, be creative, and just do. I mean, you've gotta be willing to fail and you've gotta really get out of this process standpoint at first because you don't have a process. That's fine. Let's build the process by failing. If you're just getting into sales, you can do it. Another quote from Shohei Ohtani, baseball player. They were playing the Japanese team or whatever team was playing the USA team, and they were scared, rightfully so, because we have the best talent. If you believe that, if you believe that, right? So what he said was, he said that you are no different than these guys. They bleed the same, they think the same, they have more experience than you, but they are no different than you are. And that would be the advice I always tell people. I am nobody special. I'm just a kid. I'm just a guy. Yeah, I've had success, but it's because I believe that the people that everyone else puts up on a pedestal, they're great and I give them their flowers, but you are no different than those people. You can be that. You can be that. And if you need to believe that, and that's like the biggest piece of advice, don't put yourself in a situation where you think that you aren't Oh, I just started sales. I can't do this. These guys are way better. Excuses, excuses. They came from this. They did this. They know you're no different than those guys. You can do that too.

1:04:38 Scott Ingram: I love that. I love that. What about somebody that's a little further in? They're either struggling or they just kind of haven't found that gear yet. They're still looking for it. What do you tell them?

1:04:47 Camden Roncka: Yeah, I mean, I would say 2 pieces. One would be if you haven't found it, dude, keep going. You're literally not going to lose. Unless you give up, like I mentioned earlier. And dude, you'll figure it out. Don't worry about what other people are doing. Like, get rid of the noise. Who cares that you've been doing this for a few years? Who cares? So what, you haven't figured it out? Okay, cool. You're still in here. That's way more impressive. There's people that I've talked to, I think way more impressive than anything I've ever done. They're like, I failed for 4 years. I've gotten fired from 2 companies and now I hit P Club. I'm that is fucking awesome. You do not know how cool that is. I don't know if I could do that. That's way more impressive than anything I've ever done. So it's like, you're still in the game and that's awesome, man. Like, I give you big props. And then also people too on the flip side that maybe have kind of fallen off or like they're not what they once were, they might be washed or whatever. I would say hot take here, but dude, if you're at the point in your life where you're okay being average or like hitting 100% or whatever that looks like for you, that's cool. I think that's okay. Everyone's on their own path and you don't have to be some way or another. If you want to be that way, that's cool. Cool with me. Maybe not with other people, but it's cool with me.

1:06:04 Scott Ingram: Yeah, totally. I think being great, choosing that path, it is a choice, right? And until you make that decision and decide, you know what, I'm going to go do that. I believe that I can, and I believe that I'm willing to do the work. Then awesome. And I mean, to your point, there's been other times… I mean, hell, it's happened with me. I'm like, you know what, there's some other things in my life that are just more important right now, and I need to put some more energy and attention onto that. So yeah, I might not be 200% this year. We're gonna have to settle for a little bit less, and that's cool.

1:06:36 Camden Roncka: Yeah. And sometimes, I mean, it's just like sports. Like, I draw a lot of comparisons and things too, but in sports, sometimes you have to rebuild. It's part of life. It's part of the journey. Rebuild and do it again. That's again what makes you really good is doing it once. That's cool. It's admirable. Many people can't ever do it. Doing it twice, that's really the difference, or being consistent doing it again. That's really where you earn respect for sure.

1:07:01 Scott Ingram: Yeah, very cool. Very cool. What would you want to know from the top sellers in other organizations?

1:07:07 Camden Roncka: Obviously, I've talked to there's millions of people out there, so I haven't heard from all of those folks. I try to understand because it's really interesting to me. I think it'd be really… every chance I get when I do talk to folks is like, how do they think about the same things I do? I do. I want to know, like, in a situation that XYZ happens, like, walk me through that. What are you thinking? What's your next move? What are you feeling? What's this like? I think that's so interesting how People again approaches the same situation differently. I think that's all the differences. There's a million ways to do that and trying to absorb every perspective I can really helps you understand things in life in general more. So people in the same job as me would absolutely love to hear what they're doing. We're all doing the same stuff to an extent. How are they approaching things? Talk to me about what you found.

1:07:59 Scott Ingram: That is so my approach, right? It's that having that sounding board, getting the other perspectives It's really how I process. So you go get in your car. I just talk to people. And I mean, this is how I use my management. I'm like, I have an idea, but it's rough and I need help polishing the diamond, right? So what do you think? It's kind of getting their feedback and it's helping accelerate some of my own thinking around that topic. And through that process, especially if you do it with a few different people, like, all right, cool. We put the rock in the tumbler and now it's all shiny and pretty. Let me ask this before we wrap this thing up. I mean, we covered a lot of ground. This has been a ton of fun. Is there anything we didn't touch on that you were hoping we would?

1:08:42 Camden Roncka: I guess I would be curious from your perspective, 2 things. One would be, where do you think the state of sales and things in general are right now? Just by talking with a bunch of different folks, like you are on the ground with this, you are in a sense in the arena here. Like talk to us about what you've heard from the past quarter, we'll say, of contestants, like boil that down… participants, excuse me… boil that down for me, for the listeners.

1:09:07 Scott Ingram: Yeah, your timing is kind of perfect on that because I'm in the late stages of kind of putting together the rest of the summit agenda and the program. So there's been a lot of conversation as I try and figure out what's the general feel, what's sort of going on, because those are the topics that I really try and address from a summit perspective. One we've talked about already. I've been blown away by how many people are struggling with a manager. I just think it's a really important topic that we dig into together. So I've got a panel that will be addressing that and digging into that. I think more broadly, when I started the show, I knew that, hey, over time, we're going to go through different market cycles. And I knew that, hey, this is going to be cool because at some point we'll go into a recession and I'm going to be able to talk to people that are thriving in the middle of the economy being in a crappy spot, right? Who knew that I'd be able to learn from people who were thriving in the middle of a global pandemic? That wasn't on my shortlist, but that became a thing. And now what we're in the middle of is just probably the most disruptive change I've ever seen in my life. And I've been through multiple phases of it, right? We did this with the internet in the late '90s, early 2000s. We did this with social media and mobile and all of these other things. AI, to me, it is so impactful. It is, you just hear it everywhere. This is the big topic and we're starting to see a lot of impacts. It is absolutely impacting the job market in sales. Like the job market has gotten tougher. Microsoft's laying people off. I mean, there's a lot of big, Microsoft, Oracle, a lot of the big tech companies are laying people off. And I think that's a trend that we're going to continue to see. And with that comes just a lot of, man, how do I position myself so that I continue to thrive for years to come? And that basically is the entire way that I'm structuring the summit because I have the same questions. I'm asking myself these same questions and trying to figure these things out and trying to figure out how do you put yourself in the best situation So that you have the best opportunity to win. I think it was Warren Buffett that said something early on about it's actually more important the companies that you choose to work for versus what you do, because you could be a rock star in a failing company, but then the brand is like, well, yeah, but Scott, Kodak, what good did you do for Kodak? They ate it versus being on a ship that's like really rising and doing something. So I think I think, again, being mindful of who are the companies, what are the industries that are going to continue to succeed and thrive. One is putting yourself in the right situation and then doing the right things in that situation. What do I have to become? What do I have to learn? What kind of experience do I need to gain to be able to thrive in that situation that I've put myself in? I think this opportunity to take a giant step back and really think about that holistically, because we don't do it enough. We're so focused on this month, this quarter, this deal, all this stuff. And are we seeing the bigger picture? Even if you're doing annual planning, you're like, oh, I'm thinking about my goals and my other stuff. But are you asking yourself the question of, am I even in the right place? Is this the right company? Is this the right territory? Maybe I'm at the right company, but I need to be in enterprise or I need to be in mid-market. I'm not in the right spot or I need to be in a different geography. And there's so many questions that I think we just don't take the time to be thoughtful enough about. And it can be an absolute force multiplier. Like if you put yourself in that right position, it could be the difference between you making 2 and 3 times as much income. And the thing that you talked about a lot resonates super hard with me is Are you in a position where you're learning, where you want to be there, right? Where you really enjoy what you're doing? Because I'll tell you what will not work is if you put yourself in a situation where you're like, oh yes, on paper, this is the highest income opportunity. But if it's just a slog and you have to grind and it's hell, you will not find it. It will not work. You cannot push yourself up that mountain. Not for a long period of time. Sure. Maybe you can do it for 6 months. Maybe you can grind it out for a couple of years, but you're going to hate your life. And nobody wants that, right? It's finding the sweet spot in all of that.

1:13:45 Camden Roncka: Yeah, it's such an interesting space with the AI stuff too, is so crazy. Like, we are in a big change. I mean, even your summit next year, I mean, that's going to be so weird compared to like, it's going to be different this year and then next year. I mean, the progress, the direction things are going in from a year now feels like an eternity at this point. And like, all of these classic, everything we discussed today and kind of like what I've, I guess my takes on things. I mean, they are, don't want to say dying, but they are really seriously taking a really hard look in the mirror at being applicable and relevant in today's day in life, to be honest with you, especially with people becoming more fluent in AI, people seeing through your bullshit that you're trying to push. Is going to hurt you big time in the long run. And you need to know companies, businesses, business in general needs to know how to adapt with AI and how to live in this new arena. Yep.

1:14:44 Scott Ingram: What I'm looking for is one, what fulfills me is solving hard problems. So I think finding complexity is going to continue to be valuable, right? The more complex it is, the harder it will be for AI to disrupt that. So for me, that's big enterprise companies. Companies, big hairy problems, like very high value problems that you're trying to solve. And then the thing that I continue to lean into the hardest is relationships. The thing that AI will not replace is just that human to human thing. So if you can have that trust because you've taken care of people and you've done good work and you've built a strong network and being strategic about that again directionally. Where do I want to be? What space do I want to be working in? How do I leverage and maximize that? So that's the stuff that I'm thinking about.

1:15:37 Camden Roncka: Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. Another question too, selfishly, is just kind of on the topic that I've been discussing, but genuinely curious about is like, I'm sure that you've had guests on here that have said things that are more opposite to maybe what I present in terms of their pro upfront, like pro classic sales, which again, definitely can work and has worked, can still work today. What's some interesting perspective that you can give me off of things in conversations that you've had with other folks on here?

1:16:06 Scott Ingram: I think the ultimate theme is it comes down to finding your way. I've talked to people on here who are insanely process-driven, super dialed in, and they're color coding and they've got their whole thing and that is their approach. And I've talked to people that are way more freeform and kind of doing their thing. You have to find your way. That is the thing. And that's why I was excited about our conversation, because you're doing that, you're living that, you're seeing the results already very early in your career, even though you're still figuring it out. That to me is the magic. And the sooner you can kind of figure out who you are and what that style and what that approach is, The thing I was thinking about earlier when you were talking about kind of non-video and some of this other stuff, I can't remember outside of a big group presentation, I cannot remember the last time I used a deck. All I do is have conversations because I feel like slides just get in the way. You're busy reading, you're distracted. Like, no, no, no, I'm here for you. I mean, my prep, I'm going to do all of my homework, so I want to come into that conversation knowing as much as I can Because I never want to ask you a question that I can find online. So let me figure out all of those answers. I should know anything publicly available that is relevant for me. If it's public, I'm going to be able to get that. I'm going to have a list of questions or things that I'm curious about that we can go deeper into. I want to get you talking. Let's figure this out. And coming back to the, what is the need? What are we actually trying to do? What's going to move the needle? And then from there, how can I leverage my experience, the solutions that my company offers, or even what I've seen more broadly beyond that, right? Here's what some of my other clients are doing. What stories are kind of relevant from that perspective?

1:18:04 Camden Roncka: Yeah. On that too, I think what would be so interesting and is like the million-dollar question here is like, how do you enable a sales force or people in general without a process or framework, as we know, that changes? Like that is something that How do you do that? I don't know. And if someone had the answer, we don't know, which means they're not marketing it well or selling it well. But if someone did, I would be really curious if there is any data out there on what does it look like when you really try to enable or lean into that individual finding yourself and your style and like working and handling that backwards from like what's been traditionally looked at.

1:18:45 Scott Ingram: I would say literally that's above my pay grade because I do think that is the sales leadership challenge today. And I am am an intentional individual contributor. I've not gone down that path kind of on purpose, but I think the question that I would ask if I were in that role, I would be asking myself, how do we scale authenticity? How do I scale the uniqueness and the superpowers that I have across my team? And one of the things I've thought about for years, and I think is now probably possible with AI, The way that we do territories is asinine. Okay, just because it's in my geography. Well, unless you are going on-site with your clients like frequently, geography is irrelevant. Industry could make some sense, but I've always thought, gosh, what if we assigned territory and assigned accounts dynamically based on experience, based on network? Why would my company give you an account where I have relationships with half the executive team? That would be dumb. Like, why wouldn't we let Scott sort of leverage those relationships? I think the idea of being able to connect the dots again, I think we're going to have an opportunity here coming up to really think outside of the box and get beyond sort of the limitations that we've had before because, oh yeah, well, we had to do territories this way. Because, well, why do we have to do it that way? Does that make sense? Is that the most effective, most efficient way to do it or not?

1:20:22 Camden Roncka: Yeah, someone has to pioneer it, and that's always the hardest part. Everyone's too scared to do something else, do something different. Yeah, that's always what it is.

1:20:28 Scott Ingram: I love your Napoleon example. I mean, that's freaking fantastic. And the fact that he started to lose once he became like everybody else. I think the book that describes this the best is The Innovator's Dilemma.

1:20:40 Camden Roncka: Right.

1:20:40 Scott Ingram: It's like, oh, you're the outsider. You break through, you find this unique thing, and that's why you're successful. But the only way to find the next thing is to disrupt yourself. And it's super hard. Yeah. So how do we do that? How do we disrupt ourselves to go to the next level? And that's super hard. Super hard.

1:21:00 Camden Roncka: I'm with you there. And that's kind of where I stepped into a new challenge on purpose because I knew it was going to be hard and I knew that I would fail. And yeah, I mean, it's weird coming from a spot of you've found success. Now you go to something else. Like, can you have that same success? Like you've won a Super Bowl. Can you win a Super Bowl again? The press might say no. Or like people will say, that's what is… I'm with you. I mean, that's like how you really learn and make a lot of leaps and bounds in your personal life. And I think that's the beauty is the journey. I mean, the results definitely cool. Don't get me wrong. But I found a lot of fulfillment more in the journey rather than the result.

1:21:37 Scott Ingram: Say more about that.

1:21:39 Camden Roncka: I love it because it's so true. It's like everybody has something in their brain that they want as something in their life. And I think if you have it and it's like such a strong thing that you envision or want to achieve, I think that's really healthy and good for you. But I think what you'll find is once you achieve that, you almost kind of don't know what to do next. And then you are kind of like, it's not enough. And I've experienced it to a little of an extent, but I mean, look at people outside for me, or people who have lots of things or people who have achieved much more than I have. They say the same things ironically, where the result is almost not where you find the most success or not success, but fulfillment. And that's like so interesting, but it's true. And I think people should really think about that because the journey is oftentimes really where you have the most fun.

1:22:29 Scott Ingram: Yeah, I think what's most fulfilling is knowing that you're executing at the highest of your capability. When you're doing that, even if you don't quite get the outcome that you want on that particular deal, I mean, for me, this is like sales karma. Yeah, it might not work out the first couple of times, but if you keep executing and performing at that level where you know you're doing all the things right and you are you are your best self, the results will absolutely come. Yeah.

1:22:59 Camden Roncka: Yeah. I'm with you there for sure.

1:23:01 Scott Ingram: And what gets weird for me, this happens so often. And when I'm able to find that gear, I'm just cranking the stuff that I think is going to work. Like if I look at my pipeline, like, oh, this is going to go, that'll go completely sideways for some crazy, weird, inexplicable reason. But the very next thing that will happen is I will get an outrageous blooper. Something will come out of nowhere. And again, it to me it's just sales karma, right? Like okay, universal recognition for hey man, you're doing the right things. I got something for you.

1:23:34 Camden Roncka: Yeah, yeah, that's good.

1:23:36 Scott Ingram: I also believe the opposite's true.

1:23:40 Camden Roncka: Yep, I'm with you there.

1:23:41 Scott Ingram: All right, man, let's tie a bow on this. So I I like to. I mean, we covered a ton of ground, but I want to make it actionable. What would you challenge? Our listener to do over a short timeframe, like over the next week or 2, what can they do to improve themselves and improve their results or disrupt themselves?

1:24:01 Camden Roncka: Yeah. Yeah. Good question. I mean, I would definitely recommend really take a deep dive into who you are. I mean, you should be honest with yourself. I think being aware as an individual is really key, like even on places that you're not good or places that you can improve or gaps that you have in your own thinking. So actionable items. Like, you really need to sit down and think about who you are. Like, why are you this way? Why do you think these things? Is there a different way to think about them? Why, why, why, why? It's simple, but it's a good exercise for you to really think and find out like who you are and why are you this way and being confident and proud of that. I'm this way because of this experience in my life. And what do people think of that? Or why does that matter for me uniquely? Because of this. Okay, well, what impact could that have on others, good or bad? This is why. And then leaning into that. Nobody's perfect. Everyone's got faults and positives. But to your point, and to really what people… I wish for everybody that you would just be who you are and be confident in that. And everybody that I've ever seen that has achieved so much is them. And like the people you've seen too on even social media, people that are like I'm no different than you. Like, I'm just sharing my thoughts and my opinions, and people agree with them because we are similar, and I'm just saying them. That's it. Everyone's special and everyone has their thing. You gotta do your thing, and I can't wait to see what you can accomplish by being who you are because you bring something super unique to the table.

1:25:31 Scott Ingram: Love it. Perfect way to wrap it up. Camden, thanks, man. This has been a ton of fun.

1:25:35 Camden Roncka: Yeah, it's been awesome. Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast. To be sure you never miss an episode and for an invitation to our Sales Success Community powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter at top1.fm.