161: Gaining Radical Perspective & Leaving a Lasting Legacy with Jacquelyn Nicholson

0:08 Scott Ingram: You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve. To learn more, visit us at top1.fm. Here's your host, Scott Ingram.

0:24 Scott Ingram: This episode is sponsored by your upcoming Basecamp event. This is an action-packed one-day event that I'll be hosting here in Austin on May 9th that, like the Sales Success Summit, exclusively features the top sales performers that you've heard here on this podcast. For more, just click over to top1.fm/2023. That's top, the number 1, .fm/2023. Today on the Sales Success Stories podcast, I'm joined again by one of the OG-est members of the Sales Success Community. I first interviewed Jacquelyn Nicholson over 6 years ago in episode 8 of this podcast. Welcome back, Jacquelyn.

1:07 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Whoa, thank you, Scott. That ages us, doesn't it, just a bit?

1:11 Scott Ingram: Well, it could be said that we are 6 years older than we once were, but I think we're probably 6 years wiser.

1:18 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Oh, absolutely. 6 years better, better looking, all of it.

1:22 Scott Ingram: I don't know. I mean, for you, yes. For me, I think I'm going the wrong way here. You know, and I didn't have a huge, huge plan for this conversation. I mean, there's a few things I want to talk on. I think we absolutely have to talk about the fact that you literally almost died on a sales call. That's probably worthy of conversation. You have had an interesting career journey these last number of years. Of course, you're back on top of the leaderboard at Leadspace now, which is exciting. You've had a lot of family changes. You have never missed a Sales Success Summit after, since speaking at the first one. And I'm excited to dig back into this, right? Like these interviews, they are kind of point in time, right? Whether it's a sales success story, but it's to that point, but the stories aren't done. We continue to write our stories. So, I'm just really excited to dig back into this with you.

2:18 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Oh, same here, Scott. It's funny. I remember how we met was one of my marketing colleagues came running up to me at a sales kickoff in 2016, I think it was, and said, oh my gosh, you have to meet Scott Ingram. I said, that sounds awesome. Who's Scott Ingram? And the more he told me, the more I was excited to talk to him. And it's been such a fun journey with you. And, you know, some of the, like you said, the OG crew within the Sales Success Stories and media community. I think when Sales Success Stories was first envisioned by you, I think you were probably wise enough to have this, you know, the vision of what it would become in terms of the events and the books and all the different things Sales Success Media does. But it's been a privilege to kind of be a part of the early days and to keep growing with all of you guys.

3:06 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Well, and you have been such a strong and consistent contributor. You have contributed to the books and you've contributed to the summit stage and so much more. And I just, I appreciate all of that. And speaking of Tim, so I went back and I listened and I'm glad you didn't listen. I confirmed this before we started recording. I went back and listened to our first episode and realized that I am over 6 years overdue in thanking my friend Tim Rhodes, who it was that introduced us. And Tim is the best sales intelligence person I have ever worked with in my career. That guy is absolutely amazing. So Tim, this is way, way long overdue, but thank you. And Jacquelyn, the first thing I thought we would do, I always start the show with the top 3 things that you believe have been the most key success factors. I asked you this once 6 years ago, but I'm curious to know how you would answer those today. And maybe we'll compare.

4:06 Jacquelyn Nicholson: I think that's fun because I really don't know what I said in that episode 8. So this will be fun for me too. So since you gave me like just a tiny bit of heads up for a few minutes, I thought about it. And I do, I like to just be authentic in the moment. So I love that you approached it this way. So number one, I think my friend Tom Schweizer at Cisco, who I adore, would probably say don't major in the minors. And by that I mean, you know, some people say don't sweat the small stuff, but it's really focusing on what matters most. And I think that that has helped me be successful, is really having a true focus on what is the most important thing. And that includes, you know, why we do what we do. And my why is the… my family, friends, and the people that I love. So I do what I do because of them. And so that's what helps me to not major in the minors. And what you alluded to in the opening part of our conversation about nearly dying on a sales call, we'll talk more about that later, but that gave me some radical perspective in my career, which we'll probably dig into. I think the second one is really that it's all about you're there to serve your customers. So to me, sales when it's done right, is one of the best professions you can ever be a part of. It's one of the most noble things you can be a part of because you're there to serve people. So having that servant heart and putting your customer's needs at the top of what you do is absolutely another key to success, I think. And then the third one is really having in mind what success is really all about. And I define success as being the woman my husband would marry again. Being the mother that my children are proud to introduce to their friends and being the person that my boss would hire again or a customer would work with again. So that's how I define success. And those, so to me, those are my top 3 success factors is being the best and, you know, highest version of Jacquelyn I can be, if you will, like being that wife that Paul would marry again, being the mom that Murphy and Clayton are proud to introduce to their friends. And being a person that a boss would hire again or a customer would work with again.

6:11 Scott Ingram: This is so interesting. So what I didn't tell you that I also did is I wrote down what I think your 3 things are because we have gotten to know each other very, very well over these years. So first, we'll review round 1. So in your first interview, you said it was your ability to build rapport, connecting with somebody in the very beginning, right? Like before there's relationship. The other one was like the emotional connection of like essentially getting to why people are buying emotionally. And then your last piece was kind of that buyer perspective. You called it so what.

6:43 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yeah. And I would say all those 3 are good though. There's some similarities, honestly.

6:48 Scott Ingram: But here's what's interesting is my 3 for you almost exactly match what you described. So, the first thing I said is who you are, which is the way you describe yourself and you describe success. You are so consistent in that. You brought it up in our first interview, not right off the bat, but it came a little bit later. But since then, and maybe this is just your own evolution, I mean, I know this is the way you… this is just who you are. It's the way you introduce yourself. You lead with it. It is you. It's so authentic. It's amazing how consistent you are in that.

7:21 Jacquelyn Nicholson: That means so much to me. Wow. Thank you.

7:24 Scott Ingram: And then the thing that I added that is different than the other things, which I kind of combined, what I wrote down was care. And it's just, it's the way that you serve, right? It's, you are so giving. You care about your customers. You care about their outcome. You care about this community. You care about me. I mean, that you exude caring.

7:45 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Thank you. Oh my gosh, this is awesome. I'm so glad we decided to do this. I just feel like completely valued and affirmed. This is awesome.

7:53 Scott Ingram: Well, here's maybe the hidden one. And I think this is why And I'd encourage people to like do this. Ask your boss, ask your customer, ask your spouse, ask your colleagues, because sometimes there are things that you do and you have capabilities that you may not see in yourself. And Jacquelyn, one of the things that I know about you, because I've watched you coach many people through this, your ability to frame things and just some of your language and the way that you set up particularly really difficult conversations is unbelievable. It is a superpower that you have that I don't know that I have ever seen anybody do it at the same level.

8:34 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Oh, wow. Well, I can give you guys a secret. The person who taught me how to navigate difficult conversations is my executive coach, Jim Riviello. So you can find Jim Riviello on LinkedIn. He has a company called LXU, which is Leadership X University. And he was the one who taught me years and years ago about navigating difficult conversations. So shout out to Riv because he's the master. I am just the grasshopper.

9:00 Scott Ingram: I mean, can you frame that simply? Like, because for me, what I've seen is there's something about the setup, the way that you prepare to get into the hard part is just, it is really incredible.

9:13 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yeah, absolutely. I'm happy to walk it through. So it's funny, there's a sister method that works in the moment that you're really caught off guard when somebody says something that you like actually are in shock that they've said. So I'll share both. So the way to navigate a difficult conversation, and hopefully it's something you have time to prepare for, because nobody likes to have a difficult conversation in a moment where you're completely set back on your heels. But if you're set back on your heels, you can always ask for time, say, you know, saying things like, gosh, you know, that is a really interesting question, or that's a really interesting observation. I haven't really thought about that. I'd like to take some time to think about that. Why don't we get together? You know, what does early next week look like for you? So, you know, kind of giving yourself some time. Some time to prepare, some time to take thought. Because what we often do in difficult situations is we react as opposed to respond, and you always want to give yourself time to respond. So if you can buy yourself some time, either in the moment to ask a question back to the person, or to buy yourself some time in terms of hours or days, that's always a positive thing to do when you're having a difficult conversation that's just presented itself and you've got nothing. That's the first thing. So when you have time to prepare, I'd like to, you know, sort of visualize a capital U on a piece of paper. So, you know, you draw a capital U starting at the top on the left and you go down to the bottom and come back up to the right side. And so at the top of the U is really where you sort of prepare the conversation and you start positive. Always, you always want to start positive, always want to end positive. And so you start really positive. And so let's say it's a question about, you know, territories or accounts assignments or, you know, you know, things like that. So you can say, you know, you always want to start very positive and primarily you want to be positive about yourself, you know? So if you were my boss and we were having a conversation about a difficult situation with an account assignment, let's say. So I say, Scott, you know, you know I pride myself on being a team player. You know I've overperformed here. You know how much I value my teammates and the work that we all do here, and I just really appreciate your leadership. And then we want to pivot to the heart of the matter. So that's how I'd role-play the beginning, is something very positive about me, about our relationship, about our working environment. And then I need to pivot to the heart of the matter. So I feel like there's been some shady stuff happening on an account assignment. So I want to pivot, not with a, hey Scott, you know how much I value our relationship, but… because nobody remembers all the good stuff you just said when you pivot with the but. So we pivot with my concern is, or the thing I've been thinking about, something like that. So I could say to you all those positive things and say, you know, my concern is we're either an organization that has rules of engagement when it comes to accounts and territories, or we're not. And you're going to probably say to me, well, what are you talking about? So there's probably some curiosity I've developed by saying something like that. And I can say, well, you know, I have a concern because I saw that this deal closed and, you know, based on our terms of engagement and the rules that we have in the company, subsidiaries are to be assigned to the person who has the parent account. I really hesitated to come to you because I kind of feel like I'm in a bad position either way here, because I'm either damned if I do, I'm damned if I don't. And so there it's like dropped a little thing on the table that's, you know, you're like, what do you mean? What are you talking about? Say, well, so my concern is like, look, I didn't do anything to win this deal. I'm not looking to take anything away from anybody, but if I don't speak up for myself, I'm kind of screwed. So I'm kind of in a bad position. I either look like I'm looking for something I didn't deserve or earn, or I'm, or I'm whining or worse, you know, I'm just complaining and not coming to you with a solution. Or, you know, but if I don't say anything, I'm not fighting for myself. And so, you know, it gives the person you're talking to about this very difficult conversation, because something like this is an extremely difficult conversation for a salesperson to have, right, with their manager or somebody that's in sales ops. And so usually at that point in a difficult conversation like this, the person's going to say, well, what do you think is fair? Like, what are you looking for? And, you know, in this scenario, this is actually a real thing that happened to me. And I'd say, you know, What I would actually ask for in this situation, if you think it's fair, is I'm not looking to take credit away from anybody else, but I do think that I would, it would be a fair thing to give me quota retirement for the deal that should have been assigned to me, that I should have worked. And it was really kind of done in a shady way. But, you know, whatever you think, I'm open to suggestions, open to talk about this. And so after that, it's time to end on a very positive note, right? So the way you pivot in a conversation like that is to say, you know, I really appreciate your time. I know these conversations are hard to have. But I think that our relationship is in a better, more trusting place. And as iron sharpens iron, so another man sharpens another. And so I feel like we've grown from this situation and I really appreciate you hearing me out. And regardless of what happens, like, I'm here for the team and I really appreciate you listening. So that's an example of the you.

14:05 Scott Ingram: So good. So good. And again, like so many different ways that that can be applied, but you know, we've, we've had so many conversations in the community and it seems like it's often kind of the these topics of it's compensation or a new position or, you know, just those kinds of things that, you know, that's the challenging parts of being part of a sales team.

14:24 Jacquelyn Nicholson: And it's a really critical thing to use really professional and respectful language. You know, talking about things like this is, you know, you can navigate these conversations. The key is really preparation. That's why I kind of opened with the thing about, you know, giving yourself space to have your thoughts prepared. I tell people all the time, if you're going into a difficult negotiation with a customer, a difficult conversation with a customer or a boss or a peer, you have to prepare. There is no reason any one of us should ever enter into one of these conversations without actual physical notes on a computer, on a piece of paper, in your notebook, your journal, whatever. Prepare for that, because if you don't prepare for that, you are going to fail or wing it or worse.

15:07 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I think you put those 2 things together, right? Like buy yourself some time. And then that's your opportunity to reach out to somebody, like role-play this, do that preparation with the coach, with the peer, with somebody who is good at these types of conversations. And I may have called upon you a time or two to help me with some of these myself.

15:28 Jacquelyn Nicholson: I think so. And we call it pre-gaming, Riv and I, and you pre-game with people, it really makes a difference. And it shows that you care about the person you're having a conversation with because you've taken the time. To prepare. I think the other little snippet I'll share with you is it was happening during… it happened to me during a negotiation. So this happened to me during a negotiation and their general counsel responded in a way on the call where basically he accused me of lying, which was really, it was sort of like, what? And my buyer was on the call with me and she texted me. She said, oh my God, I can't believe he just said that. And so I just said to the gentleman, I said, you know, wait, I'm sorry, but Bob, and his name was not Bob. I said, I'm confused about something. Maybe you can help me understand. He's like, sure, what? And I said, well, it sounded to me, and I could be wrong, but it sounded like you just accused me of lying, but you would never do that. So because you don't know me, and of course I would not be dishonest in a negotiation, can you help me understand what you were trying to say? And he just was so gracious. He's like, you know, I'm really sorry. I got a little caught up in this and I'm so sorry. And I was like, no, no, it's fine. I just wanted to understand where you're coming from because I would never want to misrepresent something. So that's one thing you can do to kind of call out something in the moment where you just cannot believe what you heard. And so it's a more professional, nice way of saying, I seriously can't believe you just said that.

16:49 Scott Ingram: So good. Again, it's just so, it's so artfully done. It's amazing to watch you do this. It's amazing to watch you coach folks through this. It's such a valuable skillset.

16:59 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Well, it works in a lot of different settings. So I, you know, depending on your audience, like a lot of us that listen are sales professionals, but Sometimes it's sales managers and these things work for leadership, works for entrepreneurs. It works in academia. Like I've coached some people, I've had the privilege of working with graduate students and people in different areas, you know, postdocs, you know, helping them navigate difficult conversations around projects and compensation and grants. And it works in a lot of different walks of life. Yeah.

17:26 Scott Ingram: All right. Well, we have hinted a lot at this idea that you nearly died on a sales call. I'm just going to set you loose and let you tell that story because it's pretty incredible.

17:36 Jacquelyn Nicholson: It's an interesting one, isn't it? Well, so I have to give a shout out at the start of this to Noah Breyer and James Gross, my old bosses and co-founders of Percolate, where I worked from 2014 to 2018. And it was where I was working when I was on the podcast the first time. And so it was May of 2017 and Noah and I, my CEO and I, were going to see the CMO at Verizon. And so we had a day of meetings in New Jersey, in Basking Ridge. And then we were heading down to Reston, Virginia for the meeting with their new CMO. And so it was kind of a very big deal. We'd been talking with Verizon for many, many months and it was really just a fun deal to work on. Some amazing people. I've actually done some commemorative posts on LinkedIn mentioning some of these amazing humans because they were kind of part of what happened. So I hadn't been feeling well for a couple of weeks. I'd been at President's Club for Percolate the month before and was really tired and unusually fatigued while hiking. And I basically, about 2 weeks before I headed to New Jersey for these meetings, I hadn't been feeling well, but was sort of feeling like I'd been on the mend and was encouraged by my husband to take this trip. So I tearfully said goodbye to him, which is interesting. I don't ever get that weepy before a business trip, but I did at this time. And as I was flying from San Francisco to New Jersey that night, I felt like I got a fever on the flight. And I thought, oh great, you know, I should have gone to the doctor, shouldn't have done this, but, you know, we soldier on. So I got to my hotel late that night. Next morning, went to these meetings at Verizon and it was a good day, having some great conversations with marketing ops and campaign teams and communications people. It was really fun. And around lunchtime, I didn't really feel very well. And I asked them if there was someplace I could take a nap. And this is not the Bay Area, guys. This was Jersey. So no, there's no place to go take a nap. So I actually took a nap on the conference room floor while everybody went to lunch, which is very strange, but they were gracious. And as I was sitting there in the afternoon for the meeting, things, I just was starting to feel worse and worse. So I said, you know, I'm gonna go to urgent care. And I told my colleagues, I'll meet you at Newark Airport. So they kept my suitcase and I took a little Uber over to urgent care. They're like, yep, you know, you got a little infection here. We'll give you some antibiotics. You'll be right as rain. I was like, all right, awesome. You know what? I'm gonna be good. So I meet my colleagues at the airport in Newark. We're gonna fly down to DC for these meetings with the rest of the team that was based down there. And everywhere I was in the Newark airport, I basically took a nap wherever I could. I took a nap sitting on the floor, waiting for the regional aircraft. I took a nap on the bus out to the aircraft, so tired that the person driving the bus shouted to wake me up. And I realized I had fallen asleep on a bus ride out to the airplane where everyone else was off the bus and I wasn't. So I get on the plane and I buckle in my seatbelt and I fall asleep sitting up, no recline, nothing. And I wake up like 3 and a half hours later when we finally landed at Dulles. There were some major delays and I didn't notice any of it. And so I realized we're landing. I'm thinking, holy smokes, like, I don't feel very good. Like, what is going on? And so I tell my colleagues, this is on a Tuesday night. I said, you know, guys, I don't know if I'm going to make the meetings tomorrow. So they were amazing. So Noah, TJ Bonaventura, and Manas Kulkarni. So if you're listening to this, shout out to you two. So between Noah, Manas, and TJ, they basically prepared everything. We had already done quite a bit of work. So I go to my hotel room, I check in, I fall asleep. I was at a Sheraton by the airport in Reston, Virginia. I fall asleep. I wake up in the morning. I feel horrible. I felt like I've run a marathon. My legs hurt. I couldn't stand up very well. I'm thinking, man, these antibiotics need to kick in. So I take another one. I go to sleep. I wake up in early afternoon and I think to myself, if I don't go to the hospital right now, I'm gonna probably die. And I called the front desk and I said, you know, I don't feel so good, can you get me an ambulance? And the gentleman said, well, Ms. Nicholson, will you be coming downstairs? I said, no, I cannot come downstairs. So they send an ambulance, the guys come up and pick me up in my room, and I'm freaking out because I'm supposed to check out later that day. And the hotel was so gracious, he's like, Jacquelyn, I don't want you to worry about your things. They will be here. We're not going to charge you for an extra night. Don't worry about it. You go take care of yourself. You let us know what you need. So God bless the people at that Sheraton. So I want to go to GW. So I'm a little bit of a snob when it comes to the world of medicine, as I spent, you know, many years of my career in pharmaceutical and clinical research and development. And I want to go to George Washington, which is about 90 minutes away. And the hospital later told me that had I gone back to sleep in my hotel room when I woke up at 2 or whatever time it was, or had I taken an ambulance to GW, I would have died in the ambulance or I would have died in my sleep. So the EMT looked at me, said, you know, if you were my wife, hon, I would take you to the local hospital. That's where we're going to go. I'm like, okay, let's go there. It's a good thing I did because when I got to the hospital, they told me I was septic. I had no platelets, no red blood cells, no white blood cells, and that I was had 104-degree fever. So I'm thinking to myself, all my training in clinical R&D goes into… I'm thinking, you should run those labs again. That sounds wrong. And the guy looks at me, goes, I've run them 3 times. I'm like, well, geez, this is not good. What's going on? And the hospitalist said, well, you have something we call disseminated intravascular coagulation. And so any nurses out there probably have gone pale in the face from listening to this podcast. I don't know why a nurse would be listening, but you never know. And I was like, that's not good. Like, what is that? He goes, well, basically your organs are failing. I'm like, well, sheesh. Like, let's change that right now. So they admit me into critical care because the ICU was full and they start giving me the 2 strongest antibiotics known to mankind. And I'm questioning the infectious disease specialist saying like, I don't think I need these. He's looking at me like, yeah, yeah, I think you do. So I won't bury the lead any further. I was a few days later diagnosed with acute promyelocytic leukemia. Which is basically something that inside of 3 weeks is a death sentence if it's not treated. And I was at about 2.8 weeks. And so we very quickly, as the doctor shares this diagnosis with me, he starts to talk and all I hear is Charlie Brown teacher moment. Like I hear wah wah wah wah. I'm like, stop talking, I can't hear you. And he's like, look, we can't treat you here. We're going to transfer you to this hospital in Fairfax County and you'll be there for 45 days. And I'm like, I'm not doing anything like that. Like, I'm going home. At this point, my husband had joined me, and he's like, well, you can't leave. You'll die. You have no… like, you're pancytopenic, and you're like, you have nothing to keep you. You go on a commercial airliner, you're gonna drop dead. And I'm like, well, I'm not staying here. I'm going home, and we can have this conversation all day. But those of you who know me know I'm a little persistent and insistent, and I was like, I'm out of here. And so I was discharged against medical advice. We got home basically through a miracle. So my husband and I had no idea what we were going to do. We're like, do we know anybody that can get me home? Like, what do we do? Well, I had a little miracle. A friend of my daughter's was gracious enough. She had heard about the situation because I texted her and said, do you know anybody who can help? And her grandfather sent his own private plane to pick me up at Dulles Airport and fly me back to the Bay Area, where the next morning, through a series of miracles, I was admitted to UCSF Medical Center. I spent the next 30 days and getting 41 transfusions and chemo and all kinds of medicine across 30 days. And they saved my life. I would never wish leukemia on anyone. I would never ask to get leukemia, but it was the best thing that ever happened to me.

25:16 Scott Ingram: Well, you have to explain why. You can't just stop there.

25:20 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yeah, no, no. I just, I kind of like to say that. It's like, people are like, wow, I'm so sorry. I'm like, no, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I think it was in a couple of ways. Like, I'm a person of deep faith. I've said that before. And it just helped me realize that, you know, all of the great things I'd done in my career… I mean, I'm very proud of the career that I've had. I've done some really great things. I have customers that I just adore worldwide, you know, spending years working with people in the pharmaceutical industry at Bayer, at Novartis, at Roche, and Genentech, and Sanofi, and J&J, and some wonderful companies, and just customers I adore, and they're friends now. But I realized that You know, what really mattered were the people I was working for, for my husband, my children, my friends, and those dearest to me. And it just really gave me some radical perspective. It helped me understand that there are far more important things than achieving a number or closing a deal, but the people that you work with and around and the customers that you're serving and the family that you're working for are what really matters. And, you know, the 30 days I was at UCSF Medical Center, My favorite days were visitor days. I have beautiful memories of waking up and watching the sunrise and watching the Golden Gate Bridge from my window and the nurses who took care of me and these amazing doctors. It was an incredible experience. And, you know, the people I worked for at Percolate, my Noah and James and my colleagues were just amazing. And my boss at the time, Ian Hopping, was just so supportive. And I remember when they came to visit me in the hospital, I said, I have good news and bad news. He's like, what? I said, well, the bad news is I'm going to be out of pocket for about 30 days. The good news is I'm not going to die. And I remember my boss just kind of went pale in the face, like, oh shit. Okay. He's like, oh, well, all right. I'm glad you're not going to die. It was just, I don't know of a lot of people who've had a long hospital stay. I know a few. It really wears on you, but my company was really supportive. And that's one thing I'll be forever grateful for. And it was a life-changing moment. I had this moment the first night in the hospital. I was in really bad shape, guys. I mean, I was circling the drain. And I remember having this conversation with God, and it weaves a couple of my favorite things into the story. And he's like, hey, you want to fight this? This is going to be really hard. I'm like, well, I don't know if my family's better off if I'm not here anymore, then I'm okay with that. And that sucks, but okay. And he's like, well, you know, You just do everything I've told you. These people here, they're going to save you. I'm like, all right. All of a sudden I was like, man, I don't want to die. I've got some really great wine in the cellar. I'm going to die. I cannot die right now. I have wine to drink. So that motivated me to fight. Did my family and the wine…

28:06 Scott Ingram: this is the silliest question, but did that change the way that you consume the wine in your cellar after this whole experience?

28:13 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Absolutely. I became far more generous with very fabulous and special bottles of wine to the people I care the most about.

28:20 Scott Ingram: I was going to say, I've been the beneficiary of that. Thank you very much.

28:24 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yeah, it's just, I don't keep it. Well, some things you just can't drink when they're young, but you got to cellar them. But for the most part, I've just shared wine with amazing people, like some of the great restaurants we used to go to in California. And now we live in the Dallas-Fort Worth area and there's some great places we go here and we're just very generous. We, we bring wine to restaurants and share them with the people that work there. Like I gave a bunch of bottles of wine as gifts to my favorite people at Bob's in Plano. Shout out to Bob's because we just love those folks so much. So I've been more generous with it and consuming it more for sure.

28:57 Scott Ingram: Well, and you have like serious wine transportation devices.

29:01 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yeah, that's right. So when we first met was when I had moved from the East Coast to the West Coast and we created a temperature-controlled trailer to move our wine because it was cheaper than what companies wanted to charge us to move our cellar. So we're like, well, hell, we'll just create our own.

29:17 Scott Ingram: I was more referring to the crazy ammo boxes, things that you bring me wine in.

29:23 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Oh yeah. Well, I'm bringing, I'm going to Austin. I'm going to go to the golf and sales thing with Bajorek and Scott Leese and Mike Simmons in a couple of weeks. I'm bringing it down to Austin again.

29:33 Scott Ingram: Amazing. Amazing. I mean, that's an experience in and of itself. Like, I don't think we can describe it any further because you just have to see this thing. It's wild. Like your presentation starts long before you see the bottle.

29:44 Jacquelyn Nicholson: It'll be a motivation for people to come to Basecamp or the Summit in Austin to see the case.

29:48 Scott Ingram: There you go. There you go. We will put it on display. Well, let's talk about that a little bit, and then maybe we can talk about some of your career adventures. So you are one of very few, you know, DeJuan is maybe the only other person who is still very active in the community who was earlier on the podcast than you. I think he was episode 6, but DeJuan missed the last summit for very good reason. So no fault to DeJuan. His family is his priority. And so he missed one. But you have never missed one of these things. Why?

30:22 Jacquelyn Nicholson: It's too important to me. I save the date as soon as you announce it, and I make sure that nothing comes between me and the summit. The only thing like DeJuan that would ever make me miss one would be something very significant in a family life. My first grandchild is due in June. Thank God it's not anywhere around the summit or the base camp because that would probably go me to miss it. But it was… so it's you and me and Jeff Bajorek and David Weiss are the only 4 who've been at all of them.

30:48 Scott Ingram: Is it? Gosh, are we down that far? That's amazing that it's that small of a crew at this point. But yeah, it's such the layers of… how do I even articulate this? I think it's like, I think of it, it's almost like a tree. It's the rings of the tree. And you've got just this incredibly solid core that's so important and supports so much. And then there's all the branches and additional rings from there as more and more folks have gotten involved over the years. I mean, it's such an incredible thing.

31:15 Jacquelyn Nicholson: It really is. But I think, you know, why I do it is like, first of all, I've grown as a professional so much from it. These people have supported me through some of the hardest things in my life, like fighting leukemia, like, you know, getting through the pandemic, you know, working for a tiny startup and finding a new job. And, you know, as part of the definitions around success is you know, being someone that a boss would hire again. I've had the privilege of having that happen for me since we first met, you know, being hired by a boss I've worked for. So I worked with Kiva Kolstein at Percolate and at Gerson Lehrman Group before that, and then also at AlphaSense after that. And Kiva is someone that I just adore and would work with again anytime. I've known him for many, many years. You know, Matt Elders, who I worked with at Percolate and at Contentsquare. And David Weiss, who took a chance on me and taught me something new when we worked together for a little while at ADP. And for me, that's why I am a part of this Sales Success Community, is those people primarily, but then just the way that they've been able to support me and I've been able to support them as well.

32:23 Scott Ingram: I think a big part of it is the culture is defined by the who, right? And I think because you and because David and because DeJuan and because Jeff and because of so many of these other just amazing folks who are so central to the community now come first from this place of giving. I mean, and frankly, it's the reason why they're successful in sales is because they give to their customers. It's all about making sure that they're successful and they get what they need from whatever it is that we're selling them. And so, it's just become this super powerful thing. I had a very early coach of mine. I think you'll appreciate this, Jacqueline. I don't think I've ever shared it with you, but his saying was, "You can't outgive God." Hmm.

33:07 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Ooh, that's a good one. I've never heard that.

33:10 Scott Ingram: Right? So I mean, it's just this idea of like you can't give too much because it just keeps coming back.

33:15 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Oh, 100%.

33:16 Scott Ingram: Let's talk about the career adventure a little bit and just some of the. I mean, whatever story you want to tell through that, kind of take us through that. But I'm obviously most interested in. What are the lessons learned from that? Are there things you would have done differently? Are there things that you think about differently now?

33:33 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Well, yeah, it's funny. I was having this conversation recently with my daughter, you know, and I'm actually, I've been, I'm really honored because I've been invited next week to go be a guest lecturer at the University of Illinois at the College of Engineering in the department that I was educated in. So I'm going to speak at their Engineering in Residence course next week. And I'm really honored because I get to spend the whole lunch period and then afternoon with the students. You know, doing questions and answers. And my topic for my presentation is going to be around my career and how my education at the University of Illinois in engineering, both my bachelor's and my master's, which I got at Illinois, have helped me in my career. You know, so you don't really traditionally think of a bachelor's and a master's in engineering from the University of Illinois as a great sales career education, but that was my journey. And so I'm going to be talking about that. And so for me, I believe very strongly that I don't believe in regrets. Because I believe that I am the person I am today because of all the decisions I've made, including the bad ones, including the good ones. And I can't regret anything in a series of events that led to where I'm at today, including the stupid decisions that you sometimes shake your head and go, oh my God, why did I do that? You know, because those, those moments happen. But, you know, after leukemia, so I spent the month of part of May and all of June in the hospital. So, the outpatient treatment for acute promyelocytic leukemia is sort of 9 months or 7 months of sort of on and off cycles where you go every day. My chemo was arsenic, believe it or not, and very high doses of Retin-A taken orally. So, my skin looks fantastic as a benefit of that. But the arsenic is a bit of a bitch, honestly. So, you go for 3 to 4 hours every day and get this infusion of arsenic and it's 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off. So again, my company, super supportive, but I will say badass, just so you know, I closed that deal with Verizon from a chemo chair. I closed a deal with United Airlines, same timeframe. I closed another deal shortly thereafter with Discover and then with McDonald's. So I'm very proud of that. And I'm also very thankful to my, my customers who joined me on that journey. When it was post-leukemia, I was kind of in the early 2018 timeframe. I was in February of 2018. I was given my thumbs up for remission, which is great. I'm still in remission now. I just passed my 5-year, 5 years in remission a few weeks ago. So very cool. And so, you know, I was kind of left with this kind of like, what do I do now? Right? Like, what's next? I'd been at Percolate for 4 years and it was just kind of like, wondering what was next. We had changes in leadership at Percolate, and, you know, Percolate was bought later on by Seismic, I think. And, you know, so I left prior to that. But, you know, there's some changes in leadership. The great leaders that I was really loyal to were no longer there, and I found myself just kind of, you know, asking myself what was going to be next for me. And I had an interesting conversation with somebody who was kind of looking at my pipeline in early 2018. And I say this as sort of maybe a and learn for someone in sales ops or management to learn from is the person was like, I just don't understand why your pipeline is so, you know, it's lighter than I would expect. And I just remember thinking, gosh, I don't know that I have to explain this, but I guess I'm going to have to explain this. I said, well, if we work backwards thinking about our deal cycle, like when would I have developed some of this pipeline theoretically? It's like, oh, you know, like July, August of last year. I was like, yeah. Hmm. Well, I was in the hospital and I was You know, so we're, we'll just, you know, move past this conversation. Right. So I was like, yeah, I know my pipeline's thin, but there's probably a very good reason why. So it, you know, suffice to say, it just made me kind of think about what I wanted to do next. And I was privileged to have my former business partner, mentor, and good friend Kiva Kolstein asked me to come and join him at AlphaSense. He's like, hey, come help me kind of figure this thing out. What do we want to do on the West Coast? And whatnot. And so I spent a year there, loved every minute of it. If you ever get a chance to be an AlphaSense customer, please do. It's an amazing, amazing technology and a really great tool for people in competitive and market intelligence and communications and all kinds of things. It's a, it's a great tool and loved my time there. And that was around the time that David Weiss, fellow community member, just said, hey, I want you to come work for me at ADP. I was like, well, that seems a little far afield for me. Like I've never been involved in this area of business or whatnot. But I was kind of keen to try something new. And so, after spending a year at AlphaSense, I went and worked with David at ADP. I found out some good things. So, I think the lesson would be the grass is not always greener and don't make hasty decisions when you're feeling pretty emotional. So, I have made decisions when feeling emotional, and I think that was probably one of them because I'm not a person who likes to hop from job to job. I like to spend some time at an organization. And my specialty is very large strategic accounts and big deals. And so I need a place where I can do those things. And I don't think that either place was necessarily the place to do that. And so I've learned in the last 6, 7 years to really take a really long, hard look at the kinds of roles and making sure that I'm in a role like I am today at Leadspace, where I'm selling to large strategic accounts. And focused on a very small number of them. So that's what I've learned about myself. And, you know, I had the chance again, kind of my gut has always been to follow leaders that believe in me and had the chance in early 2020 to go and work with somebody I probably mentioned in our first podcast in episode 8 was Paul Giske, who's now doing some really cool stuff at TripActions. And Paul called me in early 2020 and said, hey, I get to hire my first rep ever. And you're the first person I'd want to hire. I'm at this small startup. We're doing some cool stuff. I want you to meet the investors, the founders, and, you know, come on over and take a look. And so I did that and it was really exciting. And I started at the beginning of March of 2020.

39:32 Scott Ingram: Something happened then, didn't it?

39:36 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yes, I think so. So I was like, well, this is interesting. So I don't recommend working for a startup with like 13 people at the start of your next global pandemic. I had not, you know, I had no idea that was going to happen. So I don't think I can consider that a mistake, but that was interesting. And so I find myself, you know, at home with my teenage son and my husband who are all, you know, we're all at the house wondering like, what the heck are we going to do now?

40:02 Scott Ingram: I generally don't recommend global pandemics. I find them to be not helpful.

40:08 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Exactly. I'm just going to not participate in the next one.

40:10 Scott Ingram: But you and me both.

40:13 Jacquelyn Nicholson: You know, what I really learned is, again, it was just sort of punching that lesson home right in my face. Of not making decisions, you know, based on something emotional. And I think that, you know, I've finally found my way through how leukemia and recovering from it changed me. So what changed, you know, for me was just relearning how I process decisions. I think I make decisions differently now than I did, you know, 6, 7, 8 years ago. And I think I make better decisions now, but there was, you know, from the period of 2018 for a couple of years, it was tough. I'm just going to be vulnerable with you guys and who are listening. It was, I wasn't the same person anymore. And it was, I was trying to find my way. And I think that, like you talked about, what would I do differently? I think I probably would have just stuck around AlphaSense and saw what was happening next. This is such a good company and great people. Even if I wasn't needed in terms of my skillset, you know, in selling very large deals to very large companies. That wasn't necessarily what was needed at the time. And so that's as close to a regret as I've ever gotten, I think. Hmm. Hmm.

41:20 Scott Ingram: So, and you said that, you know, I mean, you had that tough time and you know that I'm working through my own defunkification process. I'm in my journey. What are your lessons learned there? Like, how are you kind of getting out of those low periods and, you know, getting on with it?

41:38 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yeah, so I think my faith is a huge part of it. So my husband and I have found a great church that we love here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area called Watermark. And just meeting that great community of people, we just adore these folks. You know, it's a large church, so it's really imperative to kind of get plugged in with a smaller community group, which we've done. It's been a lot of fun. And one of the things my husband and I love is happy marriages. Like, we love to help people be successful in their marriages. And so getting plugged in at Watermark in this marriage ministry has been huge as a personal outlet for me and my husband, Paul, to just help young couples have happy, successful marriages. Like we're going to be happily married for almost 25 years soon. So like, that's a cool thing, right? So we want to help other people have that kind of experience if that's the path they choose to go down. So the spiritual part of my life was vital in kind of getting through that funky period and, you know, missteps or, you know, look like in the life of somebody who lives by faith, are there really any mistakes that you make? No. Like God knew what you were going to do and he's going to work around your idiocy and your, your brilliance at the same time. Right. So the spiritual side was huge for me. And then the second was actually kind of, you know, this community here is relying on people stronger than myself as I figured things out. So, you know, trying to isolate and do this alone is a recipe for disaster. So staying connected to people in your profession who do things better than you and different things than you. Is so huge. Just the people I've met because of Sales Success, people I follow on LinkedIn, like people like Ian Koniak and like, and Jeff Bajorek and Mike Simmons. It's like, these are people I can text and ask questions. Like, that's a cool thing. You know, that to me has been absolutely a goldmine. So just not isolating and just, and telling people like, look, this is what I'm struggling with. This is what I'm having a hard time with. I think is really is so critical.

43:34 Scott Ingram: Yeah, you know it's interesting. I'm gonna have to look this up because I was just listening to something on the radio today. They revealed a movie at South by Southwest that was about community, and it was the gist of what I was picking up from the way they were talking about it was there's just been such a decline in there just aren't the communities that there were thirty, forty, fifty years ago. And where they were coming at it from, which is interesting because we actually talked about this in your first interview, because your information sources are really diverse, right? And you're really open to, look, I want to have conversations with people who don't agree with me because I gain perspective from that. And they were suggesting that, you know, it's community and having sort of that just togetherness and shared experience and those types of things that allows you to have the kinds of relationships to now, hey, we can actually talk about this stuff. We can talk about difficult things. We can try and make the world a better place in ways that, you know, we feel we can help and do that together. And it's interesting just how all of that comes full circle. I mean, it's kind of interesting to me, kind of inadvertently having become this community leader, right, where people benefit from this, but it's also hugely important for me because It's probably the most important ingredient into my process, right? I mean, this really came out of an aha. I'm like, you know what, we've got this community call today. I'm going to talk about this. And just the support that I got from that. I mean, I have people texting me and they're like, hey, you know, how many times have you been on your Peloton this week? You know, just the like little accountability nudges, just the little check-ins, just knowing that like people care. It's not big, right? But just knowing that you have an outlet and that there are people around you to support you through whatever.

45:23 Jacquelyn Nicholson: No, absolutely. And like, we've been watching this little short video series called Godspeed, which is like, it's kind of this concept. There's a book called The 3 Mile an Hour God, where like the, you know, the average walking speed for people, although frankly, this is a brisk walk. Okay. 3 mile an hour is a brisk walk. But you know, We're moving so fast, right? Information comes at us from so many sources. We drive down the highway and like you very, very quickly realize that you're not noticing a lot around you. But when you go for a walk and you get close to people and you are fully known and you are fully accepted for who you are, kind of warts and all, it's a really healing experience. It's very, you have to be vulnerable. You have to be authentic. You have to be honest with people, but it's a whole different experience, like going on a walk in your neighborhood. The things you notice, they planted new flowers or, oh, they cut that tree down or that tree fell in the storm or whatever it is. When you walk and you go slowly through your life, when you approach a deal thoughtfully, kind of bring it to the sales aspect, right? Like instead of trying to rush something through, like, hey, take a step back. What's important to your customer? What's important to their business? You know, what matters to this deal? Who are the people I should be talking to? You get a whole other perspective if you slow down a little, just a little bit, because I think we're too busy looking for the quick fix or the quick win. You know, there's a lot of pressure on pipeline building. There's a lot of pressure on deals closing. And, you know, at least in enterprise sales for some of these bigger customers, it just doesn't work that way.

46:50 Scott Ingram: Yeah. You know, it's so interesting. I had a sales leader who used to constantly say to me, sometimes to go fast, you have to go slow. It took me years to figure that out. And what's interesting is What folks will have heard last week on the podcast, I just shared… Jacquelyn, for you and I, this is tomorrow… I just shared Luke Floyd's presentation from this year's summit, and he was talking about…

47:18 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Oh, I love him.

47:19 Scott Ingram: Oh, that was… I shared my dirty little secret that personally, that was my favorite presentation. Like, that one just really spoke to me. And he was so intentional about, look, these are the deals that I'm choosing to work on. Where they're gonna get all of me. And he just puts all of himself into those deals. And and it really makes me think about what you're saying of you know it is it's kind of that enjoying the journey thing and doing the work, doing the deep work, making sure that you're fully prepared and you're doing all of just the inside work that has to get done when you're working through big deals like that.

47:54 Jacquelyn Nicholson: No, 100%. I feel like you know Ian Koniak talked about this past fall. About, you know, the book Dopamine Nation, just the instant gratification that comes from likes and, you know, instant messages and all that good stuff. It really starves the part of your brain that is capable of doing deep work. And the deep work's got to be done or we… I think we're cheating ourselves and the people around us if we don't, and cheating our customers if they're not getting the best of us.

48:20 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Talk about kind of your own deep work process.

48:24 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yeah. So for me, it's kind of the way I start my day. So If I don't start my day with some meditation and reflection and journaling and, you know, reading, whether I'm reading my Bible or reading an inspirational book, my day is just trashed after that. Like, if I don't have quiet time, I'm done.

48:40 Scott Ingram: How much time?

48:41 Jacquelyn Nicholson: So it's like I need at least 15 minutes. I try to take a half an hour. I'd usually do it over coffee, like for me in the morning at the kitchen table. The light in our kitchen is really beautiful and it's just kind of like a perfect place. It's idyllic for that. So, you know, a nice cup of Texas pecan coffee and a good pen and a good piece of paper, and I'm set to go. So that's for me, that's how it starts. I try to do a half hour, and I just, you know, it's… if you're familiar with The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, like Stephen Covey, I saw him do this presentation live right in front of me, which was really fun. It's like you have a mason jar and you've got some huge rocks and you've got some pebbles and you've got some tiny pebbles and you got sand. The only way that everything fits into the jar is if you put the big rocks in first. So for you, whatever your big rocks are, if it's time with a spouse in the morning or taking your kids to school or journaling or reflecting on the most important things to do for the day, if you don't do that, it's gonna be very hard to fit them in later. Because if you start pouring in the sand of answering every freaking email and every text you get, you're not gonna have room for those big rocks, like, you know, preparing for the CFO conversation you want to have, or, you know, putting together a really thoughtful account brief for your team to prepare for that big presentation, whatever that might be. So, and it's personal and professional, and I intentionally kind of blur the two because, you know, the concept that we are different people in different settings is just notoriously silly. I think like we are humans, like we have families, whether it's parents or children or spouses or girlfriends, boyfriends, You know, life partners, whatever, like that person shows up to work and that person that works for LeadSpace lives with Paul, you know, like our lives are intertwined. And with so many people working from home, it's really intertwined, you know? So like, for me, that morning time is so critical. And then, you know, I am not a person that I'm not very good at like sort of time blocking or doing any of those master ninja level things from an organizational perspective. But I do try to do things like I don't have notifications on my desktop or my phone, and I don't answer emails right away unless they need to be. And I just, I spend my time focusing on different tasks throughout the day that matter. And like, I think, is it Brandon Fluharty? He's got some great advice on when to time certain things in your day. So like, if you don't follow him, you should follow Brandon. He's a genius. And like, he's got great advice on what parts of the day based on who you're wired to be. Like a lot of people have a dip in the afternoon, right? Where you feel like you'd rather take a nap than, than do anything else. So like, don't put your most important things at 2:30 in the afternoon. That might not be good for you.

51:20 Scott Ingram: That might not be good for anybody.

51:22 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Right. Right. And so I think the other part is just, I've talked with Galem Girmay. She has a podcast on Your Legacy, which is really cool. And my husband and I, because we just became empty nesters, like officially, so weird.

51:37 Scott Ingram: Like minutes ago. Yeah. Like you're not being clear about how this was what, yesterday?

51:42 Jacquelyn Nicholson: It's been weird, you know? And it's like, man, I've had a child in the womb, in my arms, in my house for 30 years. Like, what the heck? You know, it's crazy. And the last one just went off, but it's fine. It's all good. It's what you want for your kids. It's like amazing stuff. Our son just got married and it's like, okay. I'm struck often, and not in a morbid way, but with my mortality. Probably because, you know, around the anniversary of the leukemia stuff, it comes up and it's like, you know, I'm not going to always be here. You're not going to always be here. And that's okay. But it's like, what kind of impact do we want to have on our community and our families and the charities that we love to support? You know, what will be left as our legacy behind, you know, when we're gone? Like, you know, a generation or two will remember Scott and Jacquelyn, but after that, no you know, will be a picture in a book and that's okay. But it's like, what do I want to do while I'm here? You know, like I want my sales career to be very meaningful and I want to have a good impact on people. Like I love the fact that I've had to, you know, I've had the privilege of mentoring a lot of great BDRs over the years and watching them grow up and be even better salespeople than I'll ever be. That's cool. You know, seeing my children happily married and, you know, having fun and about to have a grandchild, like that's cool stuff. And so I just, you know, I read something the other day. It was like, don't be an individual contributor past a certain age. And I was like, well, I screwed that up. Oh, well, can't go back and fix that. But I kind of like what I do. I think I'm good at it and it's a lot of fun. So my journey isn't the same as someone else's journey, but I want to try to make it a meaningful one while I'm here because you know what? I'll be a distant memory and that's okay. I'm okay with that.

53:22 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, kind of this evolution. I think early in your career, it's about, heck, it's about making ends meet. It's about like, how do I make sure I put food on the table and keep a roof over my head paid for? And, you know, make sure that the people around me are supported. But, you know, as you work through that process, I mean, I really do think that there is, there's almost like a sales hierarchy of needs. And then you get to this place of like, okay, look, like, does another $10,000, $50,000, $100,000 really going to make that much of a difference for me? Yeah, you know, and it's more about what is that legacy? Like, what is the longer-term lasting impact? I'm gonna have to go back and listen to it. I featured this on Daily Sales Tips. If you go to that site, and I'll find it, we'll put it in the show notes for this. So Jacquelyn, you are now going to be the star of episode 8 and 161.

54:14 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Ooh, I love it.

54:15 Scott Ingram: top1.fm/161. I did a Daily Sales Tip shortly after Kobe Bryant's passing. He had talked about legacy, and it's… a lot of it is kind of paying it forward to the next generation, right? It's helping them do better than you did. And I mean, you're doing a lot of that inside this community. I mean, you just talked about the BDRs that you're supporting?

54:40 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Well, like, it's… there's a great little song line. It's like you can pass on a blessing or a curse to those you'll never know. I mean, I'd rather do a blessing, you know, to kind of cut through the noise. Like, you know, find your tribe. You have to find your tribe. I found my tribe in you guys. You know, find who those people are that matter, that will steer you in the correct direction when you screw up or who will be gracious to you when you screw up. And they'll give you the good advice when you're getting in a funk because we all get there. It's totally, it's totally normal. I mean, I feel like I've had a really great sales career. There are years I haven't met my quota. I've come short, you know, thankfully it hasn't been too many times and, you know, but it happens and you just kind of dust yourself off and, you know, pick yourself back up and get going again.

55:23 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

55:24 Jacquelyn Nicholson: You know, this is not for the faint of heart.

55:26 Scott Ingram: It's interesting. I am kind of in the middle of a conversation around sort of this community conversation and, you know, I interviewed somebody on the podcast and it sort of blew me away. When, when they said, oh yeah, you know, my boss and I, we listen to your podcast religiously. Like we almost, we basically carve out time to talk it through. And I'm like, what in the world? How long has this been going on? And it's been going on for years and they're not crazy. They're not on my radar at all. And so I asked them and just kind of challenged them. I'm like, wait, wait, timeout. Like, why haven't you connected with us? Like, why aren't you part of this? Why are you doing this in isolation? And some of the feedback was, well, you know, gosh, it's just so much to take the time away. I'm out of my territory. I'm, you know, traveling somewhere else. I'm away from my family, which I certainly understand. What would you say to that? Like, what would you say to the person, Jacquelyn, who is the opposite of you, who has listened to dozens, maybe even over 100 of these podcast episodes, and yet we haven't met them yet because they haven't joined us at Basecamp or they haven't joined us at the Summit?

56:33 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yeah, well, I mean, there's one thing my son, I taught him to say, and then he says it back to me, which is really… yeah, yeah, just be careful what you teach your children because they will throw it right back at you, and it's a beautiful thing. He's like, you know, we make time for what's important to us. And I respect any, you know, if people can't make the time or the trip, you know, I totally get it. Like, but, you know, we do, we make time for the things that matter, and we are all given the same 24 hours a day. You know, we have the same 365 days a year, except for every 4 years when we have an extra one. But like, we all have the same amount of time and you choose to invest it in what matters the most. And so I have a pet peeve about the perpetually busy. And I'm not saying you're talking about those people in that context. That's very different. But like, you know, the people like, oh my gosh, I'm so busy. I'm like, since when did that become a badge of honor? Like, oh, I'm so busy. I'm like, I want to hear like, I'm so happy. Like I have joy. In my life. Like, that's… if you ask me how I'm doing, I'm like, I have joy in my life. Am I doing everything perfectly? Am I crushing it? No, but I don't need to. I have joy in my life. I love my job. I love my customers. I have great colleagues. I'm having a good old time. And it's like, and I have joy and, you know, I'm working on some deals and it's just fun. It's… I'm having fun again at work and it's taken me some time to get back there. But the reason why I would, you know, I mean, sorry, the thing I would say The thing I would say to somebody who's kind of questioning whether or not they want to do the event is like, look, it's something that once you're a part of it, you never want to miss it. And so that to me is the sort of the proof in the pudding. Like I knew once I came to the first one and we were much smaller when we first started this, like I knew I would never miss it. I didn't really care when it was, as long as I knew about it in advance, I would never miss it. And if you don't connect with people who are like-minded and who can teach you and learn from you, you're missing out. That's a choice that you make. But for me, it's just the most unique kind of event that I've ever been a part of. I just really treasure the relationships I've formed because of it. And I would think for somebody who's like, well, you know, I like the podcast, but I don't really see the need for the event. Like, honestly, the podcast is amazing. The event's like 1,000 times better. For real.

58:46 Scott Ingram: I appreciate that. I feel that. I mean, that's my own experience too. I mean, I love the podcast. I love these conversations, but there is nothing like the summit. There is nothing like the energy and that experience. And you've heard me talk about this, think about this, helped me think about this. You know, this idea of, you know, the typical event, you know, has a half-life of, I don't know, a day, you know? So by the middle of the next week, the impact of that has just worn off. And I'm constantly looking at how do I extend that half-life to a month? How do we make this last so that 6 months from now, you know, you're still benefiting from it? And I think it becomes primarily from those connections, right? It becomes… I think you said it best in Tribe. I love that word. It's an incredible book. If you've not read the book Tribes by Seth Godin, freaking fantastic. You know, you have to find your people. And if you feel like you're hearing your people on the podcast, then you really need to come join us. And the other thing that I probably will take a harder look at, because we have extended things this year, right? We're adding the Basecamp event, right? We're adding the one-day event on May 9th. But we've also added…

59:52 Jacquelyn Nicholson: I'm so excited.

59:53 Scott Ingram: Yeah. We've also added this virtual component, you know, or leaned harder into it. I did it sporadically in the past, but now, you know, at least twice a month, we're getting together virtually. And I'm starting to get some feedback now that some folks, you know, the travel and everything else, like the commitment to get to Austin and be in Austin might be too much. But, you know, to plug in virtually and at least be able to connect with folks in that way might be of value. So, I'm looking at, okay, maybe we'll open that up as a virtual-only type of option. So, if that's of interest, you know, drop me a note. I'd really be interested in hearing your feedback and what would be valuable to you because this is ever evolving and we're constantly trying to figure out ways to add value to this community. So, Jacquelyn, we've talked about lots of stuff. I know neither of us had a huge plan for this. Was there anything else, though, that you were hoping that we would get a chance to dig into and talk about a bit in our round 2 together?

1:00:50 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Well, I think, you know, I just would, you know, I'd kind of lay a challenge out to the folks that listen is, you know, find a new thing to challenge yourself with for the rest of this calendar year, whether it's, you know, get outside of your comfort zone. I mean, I found that I had, and this is piggybacking off of some of the things we've talked about, is be comfortable being uncomfortable. So you're not going to always have all the answers. And if you never challenge yourself to do something new, like come to the summit for the first time or come to base camp for a day and see what it's all about. I honestly think you're missing out. And so I challenge people to find something new that you can do to better yourself, you know, your sales game to up it because, you know, being able to be around some of the folks that we've mentioned, DeJuan, and, you know, I'd be remiss if I didn't give a shout out to Camille Clemons and Mike Simmons, I think I mentioned already, but like, I wouldn't know these people if it weren't for Tim Rhodes introducing you and I all those years ago. And these are people that are just rocks for me. They're supportive. They're inspirational. They're people that I can reach out to. Like Dale Dupree comes to mind. Like I never would have met Dale if he hadn't shown up in his red pants speaking at the summit a few years ago. Like, I was like, this is my brother from another mother.

1:02:06 Scott Ingram: At least he kept his pants on.

1:02:08 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yeah. And if you know, you know, that's right. Shout out Jack Wilson. Yeah. Like knowing some of these people, like Jack is just, Man, like the wealth of information from all these people. It's just an Abel Lomas and James Christman. Like these are people you should be following on LinkedIn or connected with or meeting in person when you come to Austin. I just, my challenge is give it a try because, you know, I don't think you have anything to lose except for your comfort zone, which who needs a comfort zone?

1:02:40 Scott Ingram: Who needs a comfort zone? Who needs a comfort zone? I love it. Well, Jacqueline, you obviously listen to the podcast lots and lots, and you know how we wrap up. So I don't even have to ask you the last question since you've already answered it. But thank you for everything. Thank you for all that you've contributed to this community, and thank you for 6 years of friendship.

1:02:57 Jacquelyn Nicholson: Oh, right back at you, my dear. And I'll never forget all the drive time conversations we had when I was fighting traffic from some airport somewhere where we talked about all this stuff. And I can't wait to see what the next 6 years are going to bring. It's going to be good stuff.

1:03:10 Scott Ingram: It will be great. Thanks again.

1:03:12 Jacquelyn Nicholson: You got it.

1:03:13 Scott Ingram: Once again, to get your ticket to Basecamp here in Austin on May 9th, just click over to top1.fm/2023. I hope to see you there.

1:03:23 Scott Ingram: Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast. To be sure you never miss an episode and for an invitation to our Sales Success Community powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter at top1.fm.