136: Dustin Brown - Top Global Account Executive at Outreach on Relationships, Giving and More

0:08 Scott Ingram: You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve. To learn more, visit us at top1.fm. Here's your host, Scott Ingram.

0:24 Scott Ingram: Today on the Sales Success Stories podcast, my guest is Dustin Brown. Dustin is the top global account executive at Outreach and a longtime fan of the podcast. And we're doing this live together in person in Austin. It's been a long time since I did one of these. Dustin, it's great to be with you.

0:42 Dustin Brown: Yeah, same. Thanks, Scott. Glad to be here.

0:44 Scott Ingram: There's a lot behind this story. There's a lot of messages that we traded as you were joining Outreach. There may have been some calling of the shots and you predicting that you would be in this position. I'm looking forward to getting into all of that, but You know how the show rolls, right? We gotta start with some immediate value. Let's talk about the top 3 things that you believe are the things that got you to the top.

1:08 Dustin Brown: Yeah. So I would say for sure, focus, consistency, and relationships were the top 3 things that helped to deliver, you know, consecutive great years at Outreach.

1:19 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So let's get into each of those just a little bit. So what is the focus? What does that mean?

1:24 Dustin Brown: Yeah. So I would say, you know, as sellers, you know, we get our account books. We get super excited. You know, those are our accounts. Those are where all the opportunities are. But I would say probably 10 to 20% of those accounts are your actual targets, the accounts that fit in with your whitespace, or we call an ideal customer profile. But yet we still spread ourselves so thin trying to go after everything that moves. And we all, from that, we miss out on the opportunities that are percolating at, you know, these top 10, 20 accounts. That, you know, we as enterprise or strategic sellers should be focusing on. And so for me, you know, my mentor and friend and leader, Chris Albro, was really big on, hey, I need you to focus. I need you to pick your 5 or 6 accounts and that's where you're going to go. Did that and it's been paying dividends and I've been educating or, or, you know, imparting that on others and say, hey, just get focused. It's great you have those accounts, you have an SDR, you know, work those in the background, but Get hyper-focused on just a top few accounts and start building. So long-winded way of saying, hey, just pick some accounts, focus on those and go build out a repeatable flywheel of revenue.

2:30 Scott Ingram: How often are there accounts that surprise you? Right? Does that setup, does that number of accounts that you're focused on change? Do sometimes things happen in those other accounts where that changes, or do you have to just say no and go, yeah, I know this other thing is trying to distract me, But that's not where I'm going to get to multiples of my quota.

2:52 Dustin Brown: Yeah, no, that's a great question and, and a great nuance. I would say be flexible, right? But yeah, for the most part, you're gonna have to, you know, trust yourself and just stay focused. And if there's other resources like an SDR, or if you're working account and you have a CSM, maybe you do kind of get something going to where you can pass it off or have somebody manage it while you go attack that new thing. But be very disciplined on that new thing, uh, to not let it bring you down a rabbit hole. But you gotta be flexible because if you're reading the reports or, or you're getting alerts or what, that, you know, there's some compelling events happening at an account that you didn't realize was even, you know, a profile or whatever, or a customer potential. Yeah, man, you should pivot and, you know, throw a couple emails, have a couple meetings and see where it goes. Right. I mean, cause look, you know, a couple of meetings isn't going to derail you, but if you're chasing a parked car, that's going to derail you. And I think you just got to be smart about that.

3:46 Scott Ingram: Nice. Nice. Let's talk about the other 2 things you mentioned, relationships and consistency.

3:50 Dustin Brown: Yeah. So I'll touch on consistency real quick. I think consistency is key and that's consistency in your follow-ups, consistency in moving the deal forward, making the ask of the customer for updates, status reports, and not just waiting on the customer and just occasionally emailing in to check in or occasionally trying to keep the deal moving, but it's every day, what is your plan? Every day, what is my plan? And then what am I going to do to execute it? Who do I need? What do I need? And then just again, every day consistently chip away to keep that deal moving. Because a lot of buyers want to buy and they want to have their problem solved, right? We think that that can be aggressive, which is probably true as well, but, you know, really we own the motion. You know, just if we're not following up and have a consistent set of steps, or process that we're following, you know, you're losing the deal, you're putting yourself in a bad position. So, you know, that's why consistency I think is key in everything you do.

4:45 Scott Ingram: It's so funny that you say buyers want to buy. So we're sitting together and I'll give just a little bit of context here. You've still got a couple of weeks left in your fiscal year. So this is a little bit of an incomplete story, but the trajectory is very, very clear. Today's Daily Sales Tip I recorded is called Buyers Want to Buy. So that's awesome. Go check that out. That now you can go figure out exactly the day that we're having this conversation. Let's talk about the relationships piece.

5:13 Dustin Brown: Yeah.

5:13 Scott Ingram: And then we'll talk about some of those results too.

5:15 Dustin Brown: Yeah. Yeah.

5:16 Scott Ingram: Cool.

5:16 Dustin Brown: Yeah. So, you know, I'm working with strategic accounts, you know, that's the Global 100. Um, I'm supporting, you know, organizations like, you know, your AT&Ts, your Dells, VMwares, your IBMs, just, you know, just throwing out a, for example purposes of the size of companies. That are just, you know, global. So those are the accounts that I'm going after and engaging with. So for my segment, relationships are important, right? You know, if usually your 30-day, 60-day, 90-day sales cycle, yeah, they don't really need a massive relationship. They're probably intelligent buyers. They've bought enough and their business is moving fast enough to where they got to get it in. They got to get results within, you know, a matter of weeks or months for them to get their trajectory going. With these big massive organizations, you know, what we're trying to do is help them mitigate risk to their business. Well, clearly we can help them grow, we can help them be more efficient, but a lot of these folks just want to help mitigate their risk in doing all of that. And so that takes time and that takes trust that, hey, I'm not going to go spend a year looking at every piece of machinery or tech out there. I need to go figure out who I can trust and who I can align with. And how is that person or that account executive going to help me? And do I trust them? And are they going to help me or hinder me in my career? And so all of those types of things go on in an enterprise selling and buying motion that is key. And I think, you know, while data drives a lot of our actions, speed drives a lot of our actions, but, you know, people are still fundamentally buying from people in these larger segments. And so I do think there's a place for, you know, sellers phasing out in some of the lower market, right? But I still think very highly, and I'm convinced that sellers, especially in these upper segments, are still going to be a very key component to buying and deploying technology.

7:02 Scott Ingram: Well, and there's always complexity, and in these situations on both sides, right? You're selling to very complex organizations and you're selling a solution that has complexity and it's going to be used in a whole variety of different ways. So that's not like, oh sure, let me just go online and, you know, make this purchase. Yeah, they're going to need help connecting the dots between the organizations, which is a big part of our role.

7:25 Dustin Brown: That's right. I mean, and again, there's also the, you know, I know there's a lot of data around, hey, buyers just wanna buy and, you know, sellers aren't always the most enjoyable experience, um, in the buying process. And so again, that's where relationships and focusing your ability on knowing how to develop a relationship, whether it's transactional or long-term, is important and I think can be a key differentiator. In the selling process, especially when you're, you know, talking to folks who really can't get out of the rabbit hole of looking at every features and functions. Because most technologies all do pretty much the same thing. They have their differentiators, but, you know, they all have send buttons, right? So, so anyway, so that's why I think relationships is something that's really helped set me apart in my sales journey and something that I enjoy and I really get hyper-focused on. So anyways, that's why I would say that's an important component to my ongoing and continued adventures at Outreach and in sales.

8:19 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And we'll come back to the relationship that you and I have had for a long time. We actually overlapped a little bit in some way, shape, or form. We were trying to connect the dots. It was a long time ago that you were at the Oracle Marketing Cloud, but somehow or other the dots connected there. But let's talk about your results. Again, I provided that context that the year's not completely written. You've still got a couple of things in motion, but where are we?

8:44 Dustin Brown: Yeah, we're not going to talk about those. I'm very superstitious, but the question I think was, is where am I at currently and where I'm… the trajectory is. I have to say, I'm so excited and so grateful to work at a place like Outreach. It's incredible technology, incredible company, incredible people, incredible customers.

8:59 Scott Ingram: Um, incredible sponsors.

9:00 Dustin Brown: Incredible sponsors. Yes. Thank you. You're right, Scott. So while I'm excited for my success, I have to call that out because a lot of that is playing a role here. But yeah, I'm getting pretty close to landing, you know, probably at 300% of my number. So, you know, all things align, you know, right now I'm sitting at about 208% of my number. Officially, I have some things cross the line here, so, which will put me at 300, 300 plus. So it's been an incredible year.

9:25 Scott Ingram: That's amazing. And not done.

9:26 Dustin Brown: Not done. Nope. It's never done.

9:28 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. So when you joined Outreach, this was, uh, almost exactly 2 years ago.

9:34 Dustin Brown: That's right. February will be 2 years.

9:35 Scott Ingram: And I think what happened, I probably just reached out to you. I mean, good old, good old LinkedIn, right? Dustin Brown just started at Outreach. I'm like, oh my gosh, that's great. Here's a great guy going to a great company. I reached out and congratulated you. And I think I said something along the lines of like, I'm going to be keeping my eye on what you do there.

9:50 Dustin Brown: That's right. That's right.

9:51 Scott Ingram: Maybe you want to fill in kind of the rest of that story because I loved the exchange that we had a year and 2 years later.

9:59 Dustin Brown: Yeah, that was pretty cool. So yeah, you reached out and I think I said something like, hey, you better keep an eye on me. I'm going to do something special here. You're like, all right, cool. And then, you know, we'll see. Long story short, I remembered that, you know, and you were being so nice, so kind, so just awesome. And, but in the back of my mind, I'm like, he's watching me, so I better do something here. Yeah, I jumped in and, you know, first year hit 200% of my number or 100% of my number. I was on a ramp quota.

10:22 Scott Ingram: Okay.

10:22 Dustin Brown: But yeah, I started seeing some early success and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is working. So that first year I was like, hey dude, this is what I did. I'm the top 1%. And you were like, holy shit, man. Yeah, you're good. And so I was like, but yeah, you challenged me. You gave me some encouragement. You kind of a little bit of a fire under me because, all right, man, he's watching. I gotta do something. So anyways, I thought that was pretty cool. Then This year, I think, or before this year, I said, hey, I'm gonna do something even more special.

10:45 Scott Ingram: And here we are. Yeah. So, and, and you've kind of continued to call the shot in the hallway on the way up here.

10:51 Dustin Brown: That's right.

10:51 Scott Ingram: You said, I'm gonna do it again and more next year.

10:54 Dustin Brown: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man. It's, but again, like I have, you know, while I'm bringing a lot to the table, you know, like Snoop Dogg says, I want to thank me. I love that, by the way. But Outreach and all my mentors and people around me, it's certainly a team sport. In a village and a great technology and a great company. So certainly lucky to be where I'm at and, uh, but I'm at, and I'm having a lot of fun.

11:14 Scott Ingram: Well, you know, part of the game isn't just performing and being the best in an organization. It's putting yourself into a position where you're working for a great organization where you have just massive upside potential. Right. And that's what Brandon Fluharty has been telling us is, look, if you want to make 7 figures in SaaS sales, The first step is to make sure you're working for the right company and selling to the right kinds of accounts, or you can't. It's just not possible.

11:41 Dustin Brown: That, that's exactly right. And I was actually talking to Jamal Reimer.

11:44 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

11:45 Dustin Brown: About some very similar things, you know, like, hey, if I was at Oracle in the mid-market space, I can make a lot of money there, but there's no way I'm gonna hit 7 figures. That's next to impossible. Right? So for those who are listening, right, keep doing what you're doing. You can definitely do mega deals in your segments, right? You know, but Brandon Fluharty is absolutely spot on with that. You know, but again, I'm lucky I'm in a spot where we're doing that and it's happening. It's a lot of fun.

12:10 Scott Ingram: Yeah. I've just been very lucky and it's amazing how much more often it's happening. So, you know, we are, gosh, am I 6 years into this podcast? I mean, maybe I'm in the 6th year. I think we celebrated the 5-year anniversary at the summit this year.

12:23 Dustin Brown: Happy birthday.

12:24 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Thank you. The first few years. It was a slog. Like, I really had to work to line up these interviews and find people that finished at the levels that you're finishing. Now they are just coming to me left and right. And my favorite part is most of them are coming to me because they've been fans of the show for years. They've been listening. They've been taking on these ideas, this inspiration, the tactics, the techniques, all of the things that we dig super deep into on this show. And now here they are.

12:58 Dustin Brown: Yeah.

12:59 Scott Ingram: So these are absolutely my favorite because you've been listening to the podcast since very early days.

13:04 Dustin Brown: That's right. That's right. Well, I mean, I think it goes back to that consistency comment, right? Like I've been in sales now for almost 15 years slogging through, you know, working my way up, you know, into segments and, you know, different technologies, different things. And so like you're just not going to come out and then suddenly be selling to these massive organizations. You're not going to be suddenly, you know, coming out, you know, hitting 200%, 300%, 400% of your number. You know, you're gonna get lucky. Okay, cool. Roger that. And that's fun. But, you know, again, from a consistency standpoint, you know, to hit 7 figures, like, you know, Brandon would say, it just takes lots of time and consistency and years. Like, I mean, that's just the way it is because you just gotta get better at your craft. You gotta understand, you gotta be ready to take on opportunities to be able to engage with those types of accounts, to do those. Types of deals. And so as you climb the segments, you know, just keep learning, keep growing, keep developing, you know, never stop learning. You know, Brandon may not be happy with me. Keep hustling, keep working, you know, follow his advice on how not to hustle. But, you know, you still got to work. You still got to put in the time. You still got to put in the effort. And, you know, then the results and the opportunities will find you.

14:14 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And I think that expectation is really important, right? If you're going to get to the point that you're making 7 figures in this space, It's at least a 10 to 15 year journey. Now, I love putting these out there. If you've done it in less than that, call me. We'll set up an interview. I want to hear that story too. But by and large, to your point, like you're just… there's so much to learn. There's so much you have to get good at, right? You need to learn how to open doors, period. And then you need to learn how do I open doors and start meaningful conversations with very senior executives in very large organizations? And then manage all the complexities. And I'm looking forward to talking about this a little bit too. All of the complexities that is the internal sale, right? All the things that need to happen for you to deliver for that customer, because that is what's really underlying the trust and the relationship is your ability to get things done for them.

15:08 Dustin Brown: That's exactly right.

15:09 Scott Ingram: In your organization.

15:09 Dustin Brown: There you go. I mean, it's, you know, the relationship is not going out and playing golf or having dinners. That's fun. That's a part of it.

15:15 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

15:16 Dustin Brown: It's a very small part of it, but exactly what you just said there is spot on and key. I have a friend, a dear friend now, you know, she has been an incredible friend, mentor, and just a killer seller, Rebecca Feiten on my team. She is somebody you should have on your podcast. Honestly, without her, Chris, and some others' mentorship, I mean, I certainly would probably, you know, still be successful, but they've really helped kind of light up the dots and help me connect the dots to where we can go and I can go do some. So I would say also, you know, continue to find mentors and continue to find people that can guide you and help you and, you know, they have your back. But yeah, Rebecca is, she's incredible. I'm just blown away by her just natural skill set. So she's definitely been a Sherpa on my journey to, you know, my success. I love it.

16:04 Scott Ingram: And, you know, one of the things that we've just started rolling out, speaking of kind of finding mentors and finding this guidance, is what we're calling the Summit Climbers.

16:12 Dustin Brown: Oh, cool.

16:12 Scott Ingram: Right. So we just kicked off a Slack community that's only available for folks that hold a ticket to the summit. And Dustin, geez. And Dustin is going to have his ticket to the summit right after this. We had a little disconnect. He thought last year was virtual was the only reason that he didn't join us this last year.

16:28 Dustin Brown: I'm burnt out on all things virtual.

16:30 Scott Ingram: He was literally kicking himself in front of me. It was pretty interesting to watch. But what we're doing with that is in that Slack community, creating an opportunity for 2 prerequisites, right? You hold a ticket to the summit. And you provide me a written plan to get yourself to the top of your organization. And then we've got a whole channel of folks that are going to support you. I'm going to put Dustin in there and that's really cool. And he's going to Sherpa.

16:55 Dustin Brown: Yeah, that's really cool. That's really cool. I actually think that's really cool. Y'all can't see me, but I have a big smile on my face because I think that's, that's neat, man. I really appreciate what you're doing for the community because, you know, I feel like a lot of times sellers don't feel the support.

17:07 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

17:08 Dustin Brown: There's no real community that, you know, for me, I always felt like I either… I had to know it and be it versus, you know, the developing, the learning and finding others to help me develop me. And, you know, so I really, you know, with what, you know, you, Brandon, Jamal and others are doing to really coalesce and rally around the community is awesome. And it's, you know, from my vantage point, worth any investment to be in the communities to help. So good for you, man.

17:33 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Thanks for being a part of it. Yeah. Well, let's bridge the gap in some of those 15 years. What's the origin story? How did you originally get into sales?

17:40 Dustin Brown: Yeah. So everybody's got a story, you know? So I lived a couple years in Germany, you know, knocking doors, talking to people, you know, trying to get in their house, talk to them, help them. And I always found it fascinating just learning to talk to people and see like what's going on in their lives, you know, and how can I help, you know? And then I came home from that, started going to school, and then I got a part-time job in school. Working, working the phones, working, you know, sell… selling web designs to small businesses, right? Like a little boiler room-ish, but it was great training ground. And I just had a blast just making, you know, cold calls, talking to people, selling them design services. And, you know, hey, I'm a part-time worker in college and I'm making, you know, $90K one year, $100K the next. And then, you know, right, right when the, you know, '08 hit, like, you know, make another $110K.

18:31 Scott Ingram: Right.

18:31 Dustin Brown: I mean, like, so I was like, huh, this is really interesting. This is a lot of fun. I'm not sure I want to do anything else. So the golden handcuffs kind of got me early. Yeah. And then I just went from that to then selling, you know, more established companies, you know, marketing. And then networked my way into a company called RightNow Technologies. So I went backwards from a full cycle seller to a BDR so I could learn the space, learn how it works and learn all of the lingo. And again, just be in the right training ground to understand how tech sales work because, you know, selling, you know, to, you know, mom-and-pop businesses marketing services is different than selling, you know, a complex CRM solution, right? And so, so I had to take a step back to be able to, you know, but then again started finding mentors and people who really saw my potential and kind of put me in the right spot. So then we got acquired by Oracle, did Oracle, you know, mid-market sales, went to, you know, where did I go next? ExactTarget got purchased by Salesforce, right? And then Yeah, I just started just climbing, climbing the ranks, climbing the ladder, and then came back to the… got asked to come to OMC for a little bit, Oracle Marketing Cloud, working for a gentleman by the name of Rod Rudy, incredible seller and incredible sales leader as well. Then I met my now boss, Chris Albro, via some mutual connections, and he pulled me over to a startup and we killed it over there. And then he introduced me to Outreach and here I am. Like, yeah, it's just been an incredible journey. But, you know, the main things there again is just finding people And, uh, you know, getting that development and mentorship and, you know, you help them, they help you and you grow and you both grow and you go in the right direction.

19:57 Scott Ingram: Yeah. I'm really interested in the step back piece, right? Because I think a lot of people, if you look at, well, let's think about it in terms of climbing mountains, right? If you're climbing a mountain, right. And you have one set of income goals or professional goals that you want to get to, sometimes you need to be on a certain scale of mountain. And sometimes we're halfway up a mountain and we realize, oh my God, this is actually just a big hill.

20:23 Dustin Brown: That's exactly right. I was getting ready to say that exact same thing. That's right.

20:26 Scott Ingram: And you have to, oh shoot, in order for me to get to the altitude I really want to get to, I'm going to have to start my climb again on a different mountain.

20:35 Dustin Brown: That's right.

20:36 Scott Ingram: And that requires that step back, right? You got to descend that hill that you were on and start on that new mountain. So, what was that thought process and how quickly did it take you? Oftentimes when you do make that kind of a change, you were probably kind of a rockstar BDR because you had some other background before. It's not like you were making your first cold calls.

20:52 Dustin Brown: Yeah, no, true. I mean, rockstar, I don't know, but yeah, I certainly brought a different skillset to the table that helped. I think, I think in terms, I also probably overcomplicated it because of, because of the ability that I was able to, because I could take things further than I should have. But yeah, I mean, it certainly helped, but it certainly helped me navigate, you know, to my next, my next move. So I think the question is, was, is like what, what that thought process was, I think. Is that right?

21:18 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Oh, just, I mean, especially at that point, like recognizing, oh, I'm on the hill and I need to climb it. I need to climb a mountain.

21:23 Dustin Brown: Yeah. I just realized that there's no way I'm going to make the kind of money doing, you know, selling to mom and pop, you know, $100K, $110K is probably pretty, you know, at the ceiling, you know, but for me that was a lot of money because I didn't really have any bills. You know, my dad still asked me why he, you know, helped pay for school when I was making that kind of money. But that's a, Another story for another day. But I recognized I just needed to make a move, right? I mean, like, I didn't have kids, I wasn't married, so it was hard, scary, because I just… I'm giving up 5 years of something that I was already doing and understood and pretty good at. But that made it easier for me to kind of just, all right, here we go, roll the dice, let's go. And then make that move over to tech, go work with BDRs that are just fresh out of college. I certainly felt like a grandpa at 28 doing cold calls, but You know, I learned a lot from those cats as well. You know, incredible, dedicated. That role is tough with everything. There's a… I don't want to call it a proving ground or a training ground because you got to pay your dues. You got to pay your dues, man. People don't like to hear that, but you know, it doesn't have to be a negative thing, but you got to learn. You got to start somewhere. You can't come out of school, become a VP right away and do all the glamorous stuff. You can get there very quickly, but you know, yeah, you got to pay your dues in terms of learning, developing, and growing. So I know a lot of folks don't like that term of paying your dues anymore, but you have to. And it's not a hazing thing, but it's certainly an important thing.

22:40 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Well, and it's just part of the development process, right? I mean, I, I think part of it is developing your work ethic, right? Recognizing that you don't get to just coast through this, right? It's also important that you don't just be a BDR and then you get to the AE role and then you coast.

22:55 Dustin Brown: Like, that's right.

22:55 Scott Ingram: You gotta keep working.

22:56 Dustin Brown: Well, again, it goes back to that consistency. I tell you what, there's no more consistent group than those SDRs, BDRs, because, you know, for those folks to excel, they have to be consistent. They have to have a plan. They have to have a process. They have to get after it day in and day out. So hats off to all those SDRs and BDRs out there that keep the lights going.

23:13 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So knowing what you know now, I mean, having been through this journey, if you were starting it over today, what would you have done differently?

23:21 Dustin Brown: That's a good question. I actually think I would have probably stayed a BDR a little longer. Because I was pretty hungry to get out of that role. I think I could have taken some more time to continue to develop, you know? So I think that would be the only thing that stands out that I would do over.

23:38 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah.

23:38 Dustin Brown: Right.

23:39 Scott Ingram: It's something I talk about a lot too. I mean, I think, how long were you a BDR?

23:42 Dustin Brown: Yeah, about a year.

23:43 Scott Ingram: Yeah. I think the sweet spot is like 18 months.

23:45 Dustin Brown: Bingo. Spot on.

23:46 Scott Ingram: Because it's gonna take you a year to get good in that role. And rather than jumping straight out of it into the fire, Taking the time where, okay, I got this SDR thing in the bag. I'm going to be able to kind of coast with my skills that I've developed now and use that extra time to find the mentors, to get in the field, to get on other calls, to see the rest of the sales process. Because there's so much more that happens and you've got such a great opportunity to learn it and to get paid to learn it.

24:15 Dustin Brown: Yeah.

24:16 Scott Ingram: That you're not going to get as soon as you jump into that AE role.

24:19 Dustin Brown: It's on.

24:19 Scott Ingram: It's on. Like the pressure's there. You're never going to get that opportunity to learn again.

24:23 Dustin Brown: That's exactly right. And I knew that I wanted to be in the enterprise. Pretty fast. So like, I didn't… I see a lot of SDRs and BDRs look at the next AE role for them, which is, you know, in a lot of cases it's a very tiny… you're selling small businesses, right?

24:37 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

24:37 Dustin Brown: So I think my advice would be figure out what you want to do and where you want to be, and then just start being around that area. If you want to be in the enterprise, go to the enterprise, start really learning that role, because that'll help you in all the other down-segment sales processes. But yeah, certainly start learning the full cycle. I think that 18 months is about right. And then you can go in and then you're set up for success because you've learned the prospecting, you've developed a great muscle there. Now start developing these other muscles that you're going to need to take these deals full cycle that I just don't feel like a lot of them are exposed to.

25:09 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

25:10 Dustin Brown: Especially at hypergrowth companies, you know, like, because, you know, you're just, you're just swimming in opportunities and you may bring those to an AE quicker and then you go to be an AE. I don't know. I'm not sure you've learned everything you need to learn to be an AE at that point. So anyways, that's my grandpa wisdom for the day.

25:27 Scott Ingram: Perfect. Well, we call the show Sales Success Stories. What's your favorite sales story?

25:32 Dustin Brown: Oh man, what is my favorite sales story? I've got a handful of them. How about you help me qualify that a little bit more? What do you think your audience would want to hear?

25:40 Scott Ingram: So, you know, let's pick an angle so we could find an entertaining story. We could find like a great win that maybe taught you something, or we can find like the crash and burn, like Oh yeah. I'll never forget this story cuz I ate it. Let's pick a path.

25:55 Dustin Brown: Yeah. I'll do an entertaining one real quick here. So I was working with, you know, a very large organization. They, you know, had not really been getting back to me. We thought we followed the process perfectly, but they just went dark and we're just throwing everything at dark, dark, dark, dark, nothing, nothing, nothing. And this was a sizable, sizable opportunity. And it's so funny how this stuff works. Like the moment I backed off, The moment I backed off and just like, this deal is dead, it's done, you know, let's chalk it up to a loss, whatever. They came back and bought. Like, like they're like, oh, we were just… had some internal processes serving it back to you. I'm like, dude, it was like 3 months. And then they sent back like, hey, we're ready to buy. Like, okay. I feel like I worked harder at keep trying to keep that alive than I did throughout the whole entire cycle. Chalked it up to a loss. Yeah. And they came back and bought. That was, to me, that was wild.

26:48 Scott Ingram: What's the lesson there other than sometimes stuff is just weird?

26:51 Dustin Brown: Sometimes stuff is weird. I think that's the lesson. I mean, there's only so much in our control. You know, you could execute the perfect sales cycle. Everything is right. Everything is rocking. You know, at the end of the day, we're, we're dealing with people and people are weird.

27:05 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And, uh, and big companies are weird.

27:07 Dustin Brown: Big companies are weird. I love you big companies, by the way. Thank you. But yeah, as important as I think I am. To the world. I'm not that important. So yeah, people are weird. I think that's the lesson. And, you know, but being able to be on top of your deal cycles and processes is important. But sometimes you just gotta be like, dude, this is weird, man. It's weird. We're responsible for calling the shot, calling the forecast, you know, but then sometimes people just don't wanna play cuz they got their own competing priorities. I will say, however, here's a plug for Outreach though. Outreach has really changed that and put that on its head with, from a data perspective, I actually been very impressed with how the data is actually helping to coach our leadership on actually what deals are actual, should actually be in forecast. That's pretty cool. And I can see that too on my dashboard. Like, oh yeah, yeah. I don't have to convince anybody of what's going on here. They can see what's going on here.

27:55 Scott Ingram: Right.

27:55 Dustin Brown: That's all.

27:55 Scott Ingram: And that is, we're trading 60 emails a week. Don't worry. We're on it.

27:59 Dustin Brown: That's exactly right. So I think that's pretty cool. Anyways, I just, a bit of a tangent there because, you know, right now there's a big push on forecasting and forecast accuracy in the industry right now. And I've been thinking a lot about that. I think my most favorite deal right now is a deal with a massive telecom company. And this was, you know, multiple 7-figure opportunity. You know, I swear I thought they were not going to buy, you know, and I had to figure out a way to guide that conversation of like, hey, we're putting all these resources in, but you know, I don't think this is gonna happen. Like I'm talking to, I have a Trojan horse, you know, Trojan horse in my vernacular. I read a book, it's another group from Sweden called, I think it's called Mega Deals, not Mega Deals.

28:36 Scott Ingram: That's Jamal's book.

28:37 Dustin Brown: That's Jamal's book. It's a great book, by the way.

28:37 Scott Ingram: It is a great book.

28:37 Dustin Brown: It's actually actually a fantastic book. I forgot this book already, but anyways, I talk about there's this person in every enterprise sale. It's not a mobilizer, it's not your champion, it's not your coach. It's somebody that really doesn't care about you or this deal, but you can go and develop them and, you know, buy them lunch every once in a while, ask them questions, and they will sing like a, sing like a canary. And you get the truth there. You know, they help you stay a few steps ahead. So that person was not really giving me much information. Our champion, our coach, Everybody was just, it was just weird signals. And, you know, this was like when we had just been dumping resources in to try to help them. And then next, again, it's one of those next thing you know, they're like, okay, yeah, hey, we're ready. Here's the order we want. Here's the number we want. How soon can you get this thing executed? Again, nothing.

29:24 Scott Ingram: Buyers wanna buy.

29:25 Dustin Brown: Buyers wanna buy. And, and that's where the relationship comes in. If I didn't have a good relationship with them, I don't think they would've bought. So there was some help there. But yeah, that was awesome because It changed the trajectory of everything. You know, just getting that deal on board and having them finally come out and buy. But like, man, again, it was just another one of those signals of like, no, this ain't happening. There's no way this is happening. You know, we're all going through, hey, what could we have done better? What shouldn't we have done? Blah, blah, blah. And, you know, again, just give them the space they need and all right, it all worked out. So anyways, I thought those were fascinating, entertaining. Maybe your listeners won't, but I think the lessons I've learned from those are just buyers want to buy, people are weird. But you know, the consistency and just trying to be focused on those things and those outcomes, then they'll come. But it's wild, man. It's just been a wild ride this year for sure.

30:10 Scott Ingram: Dustin, how much of the buyers wanna buy is doing really good work upfront so that I think, I mean, and maybe I'm putting words in your mouth here and I'm cheating, right? But I think if you do that great work upfront, that's what creates that wanting to buy. Like, oh, you know what? This is actually going to give us the result or the outcome that we're really driving at that then You don't have to push so hard. It's just them, again, big companies, they got to work through their freaking process.

30:39 Dustin Brown: Yeah.

30:39 Scott Ingram: Right. But in a lot of cases they want to, like, we're working on it. We're trying to get through this stuff because we need this. We want this solution.

30:46 Dustin Brown: Yeah. I think my mentor Chris Albro once said, we were on a discovery call and either he had a light bulb or it just reinforced something. But he said to me, he's like, you know, I think deals are won on the discovery call.

30:59 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

30:59 Dustin Brown: So to your point, deals are won upfront and then the process is you just got to guide each other through the process, you know? Yeah, that's right. So, and, you know, I would say a thing that I would recommend to your listeners that they do, they start doing is what I call a mutual action plan, right? Or a milestone on every deal. I'm doing one, everyone. And all the big, you know, close to 7-figure, 7-figure deals is they have mutual action plans. Like we share it with the customer and we're working together. If we weren't doing that, we probably wouldn't be getting the deals done as fast as we are and that flywheel. So, so certainly that's a skill and that's something I've learned is always do a mutual action plan with your buyer because your buyer may not have bought your technology before. So they're looking to you again, buyers want to buy of how do I go buy your technology the quickest and simplest in my organization? You're not gonna… we're not… we obviously don't know how they buy in the organization, but I think we have, you know, as sellers, we have experience with other organizations, similar organizations that can, you know, that have bought our technology before that we can kind of impart on them. And again, just those little nuggets of help also put you in a good spot because your competition probably isn't doing it.

32:08 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. We did a pretty deep dive on this. I'm pretty sure it was the 2019 summit. We had a session or 2 on that particular topic. So if you want to go explore mutual action plans, and that's the way to do it. And that's my favorite terminology, right? It's not a closed plan. That's right, right. This is something that we do together. We share it with each other. It's a document. It's a living document that we both work on, and we're holding each other accountable to getting this deal done.

32:32 Dustin Brown: Yeah, at Outreach we call them success plans. Yeah, because again, it's not only our success, but it's their success as well. And so I'm a big fan of that term.

32:41 Scott Ingram: Yeah, and just to give you a preview, if you don't go dig deep. The close, the signature on the contract cannot be the end of that plan. Success is the end of that plan. So it makes things a little bit anticlimactic, right? Because the closing the deal, the big win is just another step on a much larger staircase.

32:59 Dustin Brown: I'm so glad you said that because, you know, yeah, like I recently closed a large 7-figure opportunity and it was awesome in one way, but other pros anticlimactic because it was just a step in our way. Of continuing to drive success for that customer and checking through those, through those boxes. And so I think that's been kind of, as I've evolved in sales, is really like cheering my customer success more than my own success.

33:23 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

33:23 Dustin Brown: I think it was what's made it even more fun these past couple years because, you know, you get a deal raw, that feeling goes away after a few days because you start back at zero.

33:32 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

33:33 Dustin Brown: But taking your customer and putting them in a good spot and they've been trusting you with those kinds of contracts, that's And that I think is fun. But anyways, when you said anticlimactic, that just, yeah, you're right. That, think back to that, that night when I, when we got the signature in and, you know, we raised a glass, but that was about it. And yeah, you know, the next day we started rolling stuff out and working with the customer. So it was certainly not the Wolf of Wall Street.

33:52 Scott Ingram: Right, right, right. Action got behind. Now we, now we have to start the real work.

33:56 Dustin Brown: That's right.

33:56 Scott Ingram: Well, that's a pretty good transition. I would love to hear, what are you most proud of?

34:00 Dustin Brown: That's a good question. There's a lot. But I think I'm most proud of the company I'm at, my team, but personal level, my resiliency right now, right? It's been a tough couple years on a lot of levels with this pandemic, right? Had a lot of work success, a lot of personal challenges that have kind of been getting in the way. So that's what I'm most proud of. But, you know, so that's at a personal level, just the resiliency, the, you know, getting up every day and, you know, going to the mat. Having fun with my customers and my colleagues, but I'm also most proud of the impact that I've made at Outreach. It's been a great place and it's a great place. The level of accountability that is required there, but also their ability to develop you as a seller and as a person as a whole is… I've never seen it anywhere. So, but now 2 years in, you know, bringing on some of our biggest logos, seeing how our company's driving success for them. Just being on the team all around has been, has been really cool. If I look at the culmination of my career up until now, I think without a doubt these past 2 years have been the best 2 years of my career. Again, you know, I've had some great times, met some great people along the way, you know, like you, but certainly these last 2 years have been pretty incredible. Certainly thanking my lucky stars, you know, but again, everybody can have that. We'll have that, you know, just keep, keep at it. But yeah, these past 2 years have been really incredible. Thanks for asking that question, Scott. Like I was kind of reflecting out loud, but that was a really cool question. I liked that. Awesome.

35:29 Scott Ingram: Awesome. Well, here's a question you won't like.

35:31 Dustin Brown: All right, cool.

35:32 Scott Ingram: Let's put it that way.

35:33 Dustin Brown: I have not updated Salesforce. Okay.

35:36 Scott Ingram: So what's the hardest part? What do you struggle with?

35:38 Dustin Brown: Oh man. Oh, you're right.

35:40 Scott Ingram: I told you you wouldn't like it.

35:41 Dustin Brown: No, you were right. You were right. Do you want to help me clarify that question a little bit more? Cause that's a big question. I can go in a lot of areas there.

35:49 Scott Ingram: Let's focus on maybe just the last year, right? So in the context of this very high level of performing, let's set aside the pandemic and all the stuff that all of us are struggling with, right?

36:02 Dustin Brown: Like, yeah, totally.

36:03 Scott Ingram: That is what it is. Hopefully there is a light at the end of that tunnel, although how long have we been saying that? But I'm pretty confident. I'm pretty confident there that you've heard it here.

36:10 Dustin Brown: You've heard it here first, folks.

36:12 Scott Ingram: Once this wave recedes and we hit the 2-year anniversary, I think we're all going to recognize that we got to get back out there. And get on with their lives.

36:18 Dustin Brown: I don't know.

36:19 Scott Ingram: What's the first thing that comes to mind?

36:20 Dustin Brown: What is one of the biggest things I've struggled with this year? I'll keep it in the context of my job. I think burnout. I think burnout. You know, and I think Brandon, he's been really vocal about, you know, sleep.

36:34 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

36:34 Dustin Brown: You know, treating yourself like an athlete, you know, sleeping like an athlete, eating like an athlete, training like an athlete, because, you know, in sales we are the athletes of, you know, the company, you know. I think there's more athletes in a company than just a sales team, but, you know, I totally align with what he's saying. So I think for me it's the burnout. It's, you know, the constant high octane, you know, working late, you know, always on, you know, your phone, computer. I haven't really developed a skill of unwinding and decompressing. I'm either on or off, and I try to stay on as long as I can, and I usually… my body forces me to be off, and that's not a healthy It's not a healthy place to be emotionally and mentally, especially when we're, you know, dealing with some complex situations with our customers. So yeah, I think burnout and not taking better care of myself these past couple years in this high-octane environment. And again, this is just a skillset that I just have never developed.

37:28 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting you say that. So yesterday, I'm doing such a bad job. I'd love to keep these really, really evergreen, but I'm just not doing that today. Yesterday we had one of our, we do a monthly Zoom call that's like an attendee networking call. So for the folks that hold a ticket to the summit, It's just an opportunity to come together and start to get to know each other. So you don't have to wait until October because October is still kind of a ways off from here. There were…

37:50 Dustin Brown: how long now?

37:51 Scott Ingram: Yeah, there were 2 themes that kind of emerged and they were really along those lines. There was kind of this recognition by a number of folks who said they're just getting way more intentional about taking breaks and booking vacations. And a couple of people were like, I'm going to try and at least do a long weekend. Once a quarter. I need to be more proactive about that. The other theme, and I think this is fascinating just from a, you know, defining success perspective, right? Here's a podcast called Sales Success Stories. I only interview number one, top 1%, but that's one definition. You know, one of the comments I thought was absolutely amazing. There was an individual on that call and they said, look, I did 200% last year. My goal this year is to do 200% again. But with less effort. I want more time for me. Like, I still want to perform at a great level, but their goal wasn't, I'm going to get to 300%. It was, 200% is a great place to be. I'm fulfilled. My company loves me. I make great money and I want to sleep a little bit more.

38:53 Dustin Brown: Yeah. No, amen to that. And, you know, I'm certainly gonna, you know, continue to strive for excellence in my performance, but to do so, I've got to get more intentional about how I unwind and decompress because I may not make it through next year. Dead. I'm dying. Yeah, that's why burnout is real. And, you know, folks who are listening, if you're tired, take a break, man. It's all good. Yeah, take a break. It's all good. Nothing catastrophic is going to happen. Take care of your mind and yourself first so you can be, you know, on the other side of what you want to be. Certainly I'm learning it the hard way because I come from the old school of just grind it out. Yeah, yeah. You know, rest is for the lazy or the weary. I love what I do, so let's go. But it's certainly catching up to me. Ain't gonna be good if I keep going this way.

39:36 Scott Ingram: Well, I, and I always try and bring some type of a question to those calls to kind of prompt the conversation as we're going around and getting to know each other. So, you know, this first January call was just kind of our personal vision for 2022 and prompted outta this one. I think the February call, the question is going to be, what vacation do you have booked next? Right? Because there's a lot of research that's been done on that is just having something to look forward to. And it's a lot easier to have it on the calendar and blocked out, and you can let people know months ahead of time. And it's actually, that is one of the most enjoyable things.

40:10 Dustin Brown: That's exactly right.

40:10 Scott Ingram: Knowing that it's out there.

40:11 Dustin Brown: That's right. That anticipation. I'm, you know, my friends think I'm wild, but every start of every year, I, so I go to Germany every year. I'm not going to get into why, but I love that place. I love that country. It's my happy place. You know, I got some great friends there being there, the culture, you know, everything about it is just kind of It fulfills me. It brings me to a happy place. You know, happy to ask me more questions about that later.

40:33 Scott Ingram: But we're gonna talk about that because here's my Germany story. I was born there.

40:38 Dustin Brown: Kannst du Deutsch denn?

40:39 Scott Ingram: No.

40:39 Dustin Brown: Nein, du kannst kein Deutsch?

40:40 Scott Ingram: No.

40:41 Dustin Brown: Oh no.

40:43 Scott Ingram: Nein. Yeah, didn't even have that word for you.

40:46 Dustin Brown: That's really cool. What city?

40:48 Scott Ingram: Stuttgart.

40:49 Dustin Brown: Stuttgart. Cool.

40:50 Scott Ingram: So my dad was in the military, so I was there for six months. I've never been back.

40:54 Dustin Brown: I gotta… we gotta go. Let's go.

40:56 Scott Ingram: So we'll plant that seed.

40:57 Dustin Brown: I'll be your Sherpa.

40:58 Scott Ingram: All right.

40:58 Dustin Brown: I'll be your Sherpa. But yeah, anyway, so I book it every… for the Christmas markets. I love going to the Christmas markets either with people or without people. To me, it doesn't matter as long as I'm there. It's all good. So I had it booked last year to go this last Christmas. And I mean, I booked it a year out thinking, oh, this is going to be good to go. Summertime, fall, everything's opening up. People are loving it. My friends are going and I'm like, all right, cool. This is, this is going to be the year. I was going to go with my buddy. I don't know. Do you know Jesse Woodbury?

41:24 Scott Ingram: I don't think I do.

41:25 Dustin Brown: Yeah. I was gonna go with my buddy Jesse Woodbury. We're going to go to Germany. And anyways, like seriously, 2 days before we were going to fly out, we had to cancel.

41:32 Scott Ingram: Brutal.

41:33 Dustin Brown: Brutal.

41:34 Scott Ingram: And so no wonder you're feeling the burn.

41:36 Dustin Brown: Oh man. That was definitely a big disappointment personally, but it's all good. Taking my little girl this March. I'm taking her over there. I've been teaching her German, so she speaks it with me. It's kind of fun, but we're going and I don't care. Zombie apocalypse be going down, I'm going. So Germany, better watch out, I'm coming. Yeah. So I love that idea of having something on the calendar, looking forward to something because yeah, it made my year better because I was like, all right, I'm going, you know, the planning of it. Anyways, I'm just, I'm really excited about that topic that you just brought up. So nerd out on you here.

42:07 Scott Ingram: Good, good, good, good. Well, I literally think it's going to be like an accountability item within the community, right? Because again, it gets hard. And so it's just important to have it booked, hold the calendar, hold the space. Maybe don't book it a year out. You know, maybe, maybe it needs to happen in 3 to 4 months.

42:25 Dustin Brown: Yeah, man, I wanted to save that $20, you know, book it so far, save that money. Yeah. The other thing that I think is that I'm trying to do now is also start to like uplevel myself because, you know, as I grow in my career, I begin to realize I don't know everything. And that stress is compounding. So I'm getting some professional development coaching, you know, and paying for it and, you know, taking a lot of different classes to continue to uplevel my craft. That's been emotionally good for me versus again, just grinding it out. So just whatever you need to do to go get better, help yourself, that makes you happy. I'm all about just go do it. Just go do it. Your work will be better for it.

43:00 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Let's come back to the consistency topic and dissect your day.

43:04 Dustin Brown: Okay.

43:04 Scott Ingram: So I know, you know how this goes, right? Alarm clock goes off. What time did that happen? And I want the blow-by-blow till your head hits the pillow.

43:11 Dustin Brown: Okay. I am that weirdo that wakes up at 4:30. Okay. I wake up at 4:30. So from 4:30 to about 6, it's my quiet time. I journal, I read, I get caught up on the news. I just start calmly the day. I've got 2 little kids. So once they up, it is on. And I never like to be behind the 8-ball there. So anyway, so from 4:30 to 6, reading, getting ready. Then from 6 to 7, 7:30, I spend time with my kids. You know, make them breakfast, get them dressed, get them ready for school.

43:42 Scott Ingram: How old are your kids?

43:43 Dustin Brown: Yeah, they're 5 and 3. While they are animals, I love our mornings together. Like it is, that is my happy place. I really do. And then from 7:30 to about 9, I go to the gym. Well, I'm taking them to school and then I hit the gym. So I hit the gym for about an hour. I have to go to the gym. I have to sweat. I have to get my mind right. Like I have to do that. If I don't do that, it's gonna be a bad day. Not because I'm looking to get buff, I got a dad bod, but I just need to sweat a little bit and just throw some iron around to get ready for the day. And then from 9 to about 5, calls, meetings, prospecting. While I, you know, I work with customers and New Logos, so I'm kind of that hybrid role. So, you know, while I think it's important that you have time blocks on your calendar, I'm a big believer in that. But again, people are weird and they call you at weird times and you got to handle those things. And so, but I try to make sure every day there's an hour of prospecting and then there's about an hour where I'm getting caught up on some admin stuff so I can, you know, again, you know, with sales technology today, like my admin work is actually being reduced significantly. So, you know, that hour usually ends up being like, okay, I'm thinking about the next steps with, with, you know, this upcoming meeting maybe, or hey, that's just a little bit time for my mind. Then about 5 to 6:30 with my kids again and then From about 6:30 to about 8, I'm prepping for the next day. I do that religiously. Like if I'm not prepping for the next day, it's going to be a bad day just because, you know, there's things I can control and there's things I can't control. I can control my preparation and, you know, with, with sales and with meetings and with, you know, moving deals forward, preparation is pretty critical. That's how my day is structured, you know, but, you know, I don't have it down to the minute because I have to have that flexibility for some of the things that are already on my calendar as well as that are just gonna pop up outta nowhere.

45:31 Scott Ingram: I'm most interested in that prep period. What does that look like? What all are you doing in that time?

45:36 Dustin Brown: Yeah, so I typically will, will grab a drink. I will look at the next day and then I think about what do I want from this day? What outcomes am I looking for? Okay. Am I looking to move this forward or just get this from somebody or learn about that or what have you? Right. So it's being very intentional with what outcome am I wanting on the next day and How does that, you know, apply to the bigger strategy and objective of what I'm doing, which is, you know, moving deals forward, trying to get things through procurement, what have you. But it's being able to intentionally know that, call it out, notate that. And then, you know, this sounds really silly, but, you know, I have a buddy that's a Navy SEAL, and one day he was talking about how sometimes they'll do missions in their mind. They'll close their eyes and they'll walk through their missions. Well, I actually do that as well. Like, I'll walk through my day and how I want it to look. What I wanna say, what objectives I wanna accomplish, how I need it to look to, for it to be successful. And I try to do that every night before I go to bed. And so that's some of the tactical and strategic things and how I prep for my next day.

46:34 Scott Ingram: Are there any other habits or routines that are kind of core to the way that you function and operate beyond kind of the time blocking and the prep and things like that and working out?

46:44 Dustin Brown: No, that's about it. You know, I could do more, have more fun. You know, as things are opening up, I can probably go out more, be more intentional with spending my time with, you know, the people I want to spend time with. I could read more. I'd like to read more. I'm a big reader. I'm a nerd when it comes to that. I love to read. If I didn't have to work for a living, I would be reading on a beach, just reading. I love it. So I'd like to do more of that. That's pretty good for my mind. But, you know, during the week though, I'm pretty like, I struggle with focus. You know, maybe that's a trait of all sellers, but I particularly struggle with focus. And so I really have to be focused on being focused and intentional. And so that chews up a lot of my bandwidth. So usually by the time I'm… by about 9, I'm ready. I'm done. I'm ready to hit the pillow because I, you know, then I get in.

47:26 Scott Ingram: Well, that's, that's what happens for those of us that get up at 4:30. Like we're pretty much done about 9 o'clock.

47:30 Dustin Brown: Yeah.

47:30 Scott Ingram: I'm angry if I'm up at 10.

47:32 Dustin Brown: Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, but I, I like to read more, you know, I'd like to walk my dogs more. So I'm always looking for ways to do those 2 things. I think my week's And my days are, I think I feel pretty confident and comfortable with. I don't leave too many regrets on the field at the end of each day. So having those routines and that structure helps me.

47:49 Scott Ingram: Nice. Nice.

47:50 Dustin Brown: I have to have it, man, or I'd be miserable if I didn't have a framework. So some people can just roll with it and shoot from the hip. Cool. But I don't know any successful people that can do that, but hey, more power to you. But that's what I do. And that's my day.

48:01 Scott Ingram: Awesome. Awesome. Let's talk about the reading. What is the information diet? What do you read? What do you watch? What do you listen to? When does that happen?

48:08 Dustin Brown: Yeah, I made a concerted effort to stop watching TV because there's just so much content. I can't ever just, I'm just never satisfied. So I'm just not gonna even try anymore. There's so many good shows out there that are just like, oh, I don't have time for that.

48:20 Scott Ingram: I saw today Netflix is gonna spend over $17 billion on content. Yeah, that's a problem. That's, that's not good for society.

48:27 Dustin Brown: That's probably not good for society. You know, and I'm probably, you know, they're like also thinking about raising rates. I'm like, I watch YouTube more than I watch Netflix. So I'm probably gonna have to cancel the Netflix here. And I used to be a big consumer of news. Big consumer of news. It is deadly.

48:44 Scott Ingram: Yeah. That is not good for your mental health.

48:45 Dustin Brown: It is not good for your… it's not good for anything. So I've, you know, the last 6, 7 months, ever since basically the last election, I just have been done with, uh, with, with all…

48:55 Scott Ingram: That cured me too.

48:56 Dustin Brown: Yeah. I was like, I'm done with this. You know, I don't want to get into, go down a rabbit hole here, but like, I'm just done with the hate. Like, just like it doesn't serve anybody. So getting back to the information diet, but I'm also a huge reader on current events, policies that are going on. You know, I love reading books, you know, about, you know, our founding fathers. I love reading books about, you know, from Bob Woodward, big fan. So, and I, you know, current events, you know, globally. So I try to stay up to date through, you know, as biased of information as possible. And because I know a lot, I feel like I know a lot, I have a good pulse on what really is going on. Yeah, the news just does my head in cuz it's like, it's just spin. Mm-hmm. There's no truth at all in what we, in, from a media perspective. So anyways, but yeah, I love autobiographies, you know, like Colin Powell. I just read one on James Mattis, is awesome book. And I love, you know, reading about, you know, I just read a book from Martin Luther King Jr. I forgot the name, title of the book. It's slipping my tongue. I just finished that book a couple weeks ago. Really good. I'm reading a book now called Bad Blood. It's about the Theranos.

49:54 Scott Ingram: Theranos. Yeah. Theranos. That's a great, I listened to the podcast.

49:56 Dustin Brown: Yeah. It's a great book. I just finished as well. So I'm the guy that like reads like 2 or 3 books at the same time. And then like, you know, about, you know, a third of the way before it's done, I'm just kind of like, I'm over it. Cause I can only consume so much, but I love reading. I just read the WeWork, the Cult of We.

50:11 Scott Ingram: Oh yeah.

50:11 Dustin Brown: Great, great, great book. That was fun. But I have a couple friends at work that we're both, we like to read. So we'll do a little book club. And again, so, but yeah, I like nonfiction autobiographies about current events. But, you know, my guilty pleasure is reading books in German about medieval Germany. Hmm. It's so weird. It's so weird, but I love it. It's so interesting and intriguing to me and fascinating. And I just, my colleagues make fun of me. They're like, hey, what book are you reading? It's not gonna be a German medieval book, is it? I'm like, I've only suggested that once. They're like, that was really bizarre. But I really enjoy learning about, you know, medieval history. I'm a weirdo, but I love, I just love learning. About topics. I read Jamal's book, great book. I try to like not read too many business books just because I don't know, I struggle with some of them. You know, general business is fine, general concepts are fine, but when it's like sales stuff, not a big fan. I'll get little nuggets here and there, but they don't speak to me. But I think Jamal wrote a good book. A guy named Skip Miller wrote some good books. Sure recommend those. Those are really good. But I've probably, when I was first coming up into sales, I probably just read so much. Sales and business books and it was like everybody's saying the exact same thing.

51:21 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

51:22 Dustin Brown: So I'm not a big business sales book guy. Doesn't mean that they're not good or they can't be enjoyed, just not my thing. Podcasts. I listen to your podcast, obviously. I am a big fan of War on the Rocks and Dan Carlin's Hardcore History. Oh yeah, that's, that's, that's so good. And then I just started listening to this Stanford communications professor's podcast. I can't recall the name of it, but it's, I'm really trying to become a better executive communicator so I can just have better executive presence and just, you know, continue to enhance my communication skills. Um, that podcast is really fascinating and really good. And, um, they're talking about Ronald Reagan and why he was so effective and an effective communicator. And so I'm trying to learn and begin to emulate some of those things. Certainly not doing it on this podcast, but I'm really intrigued by communication skills right now. It's kind of my thing right now. Awesome.

52:08 Scott Ingram: Awesome. So as always, um, we'll have links to a ton of books and all the stuff that Dustin just walked through. So top1.fm/the episode number or top1.fm/Dustin-Brown is going to get you squared away. Easy to spell. I like that.

52:23 Dustin Brown: Yeah.

52:24 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

52:24 Dustin Brown: Just kind of taking it back to podcast, your podcast. I really like what you're doing for the community. It's been really fun watching your journey, man.

52:29 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

52:29 Dustin Brown: And, uh, seeing all the good you're doing out there. Like it's a lot of fun listening to the folks on your podcast and, you know, I'm certainly honored to be here, but I certainly don't feel that I deserve to be here based on some of your other guests and what their accomplishments are. And so it's just kind of cool to be on this side and, you know, have the opportunity to, you know, sit across from you and, you know, have this conversation.

52:48 Scott Ingram: Yeah. I mean, again, there's nothing more gratifying than kind of the full circle nature that we have now gotten to with this show. Right. And so you were inspired by it. You got to this level and now you get to pay it forward. And these generations fortunately are very fast, right? I don't have to wait 30 years for somebody to get to number 1 at the top of the organization and change their career. Right. Right?

53:09 Dustin Brown: That's right. That's right. I mean, heck, you know, yeah. I mean, I don't have anything to add to that. That's right. That's spot on.

53:16 Scott Ingram: You made a fascinating comment earlier about because of the sales tech, you're having to do less admin and you've been able to kind of think more. What's your tech stack? And not just the sales tech stack, of course I want to hear about that, but I also want to hear just kind of your personal tech stack and, you know, what are the tools and apps and things that you're using in your day-to-day?

53:34 Dustin Brown: You know, I don't use a lot. I use Navigator. That's great. That's fantastic. And I use Outreach. I don't need anything else. Honestly, I'm just not an app guy. I have to keep focused. I have to keep things simple. I just don't have the mind for having everything all over the place. So I use Outreach and Navigator. Those are the 2 things I live by. Outreach for a seller at any level is an incredible godsend. And these other sales tools, because of the efficiency that they unlock. Yeah, I just don't ever want to work anywhere that doesn't have a sales tech stack like an Outreach. I mean, we got things like Kaia, our conversational intelligence, takes all my notes for me in real time, right? And guides me in my meeting. It can tell me like how much I'm talking as compared to my customer. Man, that's also unlocked some great wins because I'm shutting up and listening more.

54:21 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

54:22 Dustin Brown: You know, the auto emails to follow up with my customers. Oh, easy. I don't have to do that. That saves a ton of time in aggregate, right? And same thing with, you know, templates and snippets and just sending emails quicker. I mean, just, so just those little tiny wins, those micro wins add up.

54:36 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

54:36 Dustin Brown: Right. And then not having to log any of that into Salesforce. I mean, I literally have like 2 or 3 hours of my day back to go sell and talk to customers. And then the data that it's telling me and helping me guide me on what I should do next and kind of helping me see some trends that are going on so I can then make better decisions. Super, been super helpful and takes a huge burden off of me. So I'm a big fan of Outreach because of that. And so You know, obviously I work there, but I really think that the technology is incredible and has helped me so much from a seller's perspective. Those are the 2 things I use is Navigator and Outreach. That's it.

55:08 Scott Ingram: Are they trying to visit us? What is going on at the door?

55:10 Dustin Brown: Yeah, they know you're here. Yeah, damn it. I think they're trying to come in. They want your autograph.

55:14 Scott Ingram: Witness protection.

55:15 Dustin Brown: Yeah. But there's a lot of cool sales tech out there and, you know, but I don't have a ton that I use because again, I just got to keep things simple.

55:22 Scott Ingram: I want to go back to, you talked about having read a lot of sales books. Early in your career, did that inform? I mean, do you subscribe to a particular sales philosophy? Like what is the Dustin Brown philosophy on sales?

55:37 Dustin Brown: That's a good question. Jamal put a post out the other day. I don't know if you saw it about this. You know, coming up in transactional sales, I think you know I was a big BANT guy in terms of qualifying an opportunity. I mean, I'm pretty like you know as like SaaS is just now becoming a true like. Market, you know, like I'm coming up from like where BANT was like the thing, you know, and it still holds some value, but there's better ways to do it obviously. But BANT from a qualification perspective, but you know, I think MEDDPICC is good. I think MEDDPICC is a good methodology, but because I've been selling so long and I've been exposed to all of them, my methodology is all of them. It's kind of like, you know, playing basketball or in my like breathing, I just do it because I've been doing it so long that I just don't think about it. I just naturally pivot to the framework or a process that I need to do in this moment for this particular person. But, you know, in the enterprise space, you know, nothing goes according to plan, right? So just again, trying to be flexible. So I knew you were gonna ask me that question. I've been, I was thinking about it, but I don't really have, I think MEDDPICC is probably, if I am gonna pick one, MEDDPICC would be the methodology that I would always follow in terms of, you know, just how you engage with your buyers. Just get the metrics, you know, get all their important information, figure out who the people are, what the process is. I mean, you can't go wrong.

56:50 Scott Ingram: Love it. Love it. How would you describe your style?

56:53 Dustin Brown: That's a good question. This is gonna sound so hokey. I love making money. So I'll just like put that out there. But I, if not more, love helping people and engaging with people and trying to figure out how to help them win. That's my style is like, hey, you've got a problem I think my technology can solve, but how can I help you? What does it mean for you? What's in it for you? You know, that those WIFMs and really just go to bat for them and with them and, you know, just try to become a natural extension of their team.

57:18 Scott Ingram: Let's keep going on that thing, because I always like to ask sort of about motivation, right? And you talked about, you know, money's a factor, helping people is a factor. What ultimately drives you at the end of the day?

57:28 Dustin Brown: Yeah, that's a good question. My big goal is I want to retire by the time I'm 55, and I want to go serve underprivileged environments, whether that's here in our country or in other countries. I want to go help other people. There's a lot of pain in the world, a lot of folks who just need help and want help. And I want to go give that to other people. That is what I wake up wanting to do and feeling. I love technology. I love working at Outreach, but that's not like, you know, they're helping me accomplish my goals and I'm helping them accomplish their goals and it's all good. But that's what I want and that's what drives me is I want to go serve and, you know, volunteer or whatever and help other people. I've been so blessed in my life, Scott, that, you know, I love giving, being able to give back. And it's in time, cuz everybody can give money away, you know, but time and focus and really like letting an individual or a group of people know that people care and that they're of value and of worth. That's what's just driving me.

58:25 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Help in what way? And maybe you can connect the dot because I think your original Germany trip was also kind of a volunteering type of thing, right? Yeah. What, tie this together for me.

58:35 Dustin Brown: Yeah. So I'm just trying to figure out the PC way of describing that. So I served a mission for my church. For 2 years, brought a message, you know, at the time. And I still do believe that makes, you know, brings happiness. But it was more like, hey, how can I go help people find happiness in their life? How can I help them give them a leg up? How can I just be a friend, be a listening ear? There's a lot of people in Europe and Germany specifically that are alone, isolated, and bringing them conversation, a little bit of a joy, made the world to me and to them. And so Just seeing that is amazing. And then you look at, you know, countries in Africa, South America, even our country of, you know, there's a lot of impoverished people that I feel like get left behind and society says, we don't care about you, but I care. So what can I do at an individual and a collective level of letting them know that they're of worth and of value and that they aren't left behind, that they matter? So that could mean a lot of things of like building a school, building a home, cleaning out a home, bringing, you know, older widowed women, men, whatever meals, painting a house, pulling somebody's weeds. It can mean a lot of things, but just being able to help somebody and be of service, it means a lot to me.

59:45 Scott Ingram: Love that. Love that.

59:46 Dustin Brown: Where I'm actually been working with this Mexican cemetery in Dallas, we've been cleaning it out. Just kind of a lot of trees grew over it, but the cemetery is beautiful and it just got left behind. And, you know, working with that community director and, you know, how happy it's making him and his family and the community, it's incredible, man. And it's just the feeling you get. Ah, it's hard work, man. It's been a long time since I've pulled weeds or done a lot of yard work, but just being out there and just helping them and again, reminding them that they matter and that they are a part of the community and they need help and being able to help is awesome. So anyways, as you can tell, I get pretty passionate about that. It brings me a lot of happiness too.

1:00:20 Scott Ingram: Very cool. Very cool.

1:00:21 Dustin Brown: Yeah.

1:00:21 Scott Ingram: This is gonna be a weird pivot, but you know, change of conversation.

1:00:24 Dustin Brown: Let's go.

1:00:25 Scott Ingram: Is there something you believe that the typical sales professional would think is crazy?

1:00:31 Dustin Brown: Yeah. Invest in yourself, spend money learning and developing yourself. Right. Again, going back to Brandon and Jamal, I must have them on LinkedIn's algorithm. They pop up everywhere on me, but Brandon one time shared a link about Kobe Bryant or LeBron James of how they invest in themselves from either therapies or what have you. Anyways, they're putting their earnings back into themselves and development and getting better and healthier and whatnot. And I used to think that was pretty nutty. Investing myself. That's the company's role. But as I've grown in my career and realized I don't know anything and realize my company can't be the end-all be-all, I've got to go start investing in myself. I've begun to really see the dividends that pays. And so yeah, invest in yourself with money. You make money, you should put some of that back in yourself, whether it's buying books, going to a seminar, you know, getting coached one-on-one, or go get developed by a coach. I think is really important, especially as you climb the ladder of your sales career. Just because you're good doesn't mean you're gonna stay great. 'Cause like you gotta go invest in yourself and not the free stuff, like go pay for the real stuff.

1:01:36 Scott Ingram: Yeah, man. Sadly, I think that is kind of controversial, especially for kind of the average typical sales professional. I mean, having been in this space, like I create opportunities for people to do this, you know, like to come to the summit and be a part of this. I mean, it's wide open. And people just don't seek it out. It really is this minority. And then it's so funny because they're all the ones that are finding themselves at the top of the organization.

1:02:01 Dustin Brown: That's right.

1:02:01 Scott Ingram: Right.

1:02:02 Dustin Brown: That's right.

1:02:02 Scott Ingram: And the very first Daily Sales Tip. So, you know, tip 1 was like an intro that wasn't really a tip, but I shared the first tip and it's you have to own your own development. Like nobody else is going to do it. Like maybe your company has a little bit of a budget for you to use. Okay. Use that. For sure. But you know, the $250, the $500, that's not gonna do it.

1:02:24 Dustin Brown: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, your companies care. They wanna develop you. They want you to get better.

1:02:29 Scott Ingram: Right.

1:02:29 Dustin Brown: But you know, there's still a lot of onus on you, the individual, to go get better. Yeah. And quite frankly, I think also disconnecting it from the company, you actually, I think is better because I don't know the psychology behind it, but there's just something there when you're like, you know what, I'm gonna go do this for myself on my own without even your resources. Is a better experience. I don't know how to describe it, but I think you know what I mean.

1:02:50 Scott Ingram: I know exactly what you mean because I don't like it when companies pay for their reps to come to the summit. Like, no, no, no, no. I want you to have skin in the game.

1:02:58 Dustin Brown: Yeah.

1:02:59 Scott Ingram: Because a big part of what makes that event too is just the dynamic of people who are investing in themselves being together and the value of that network. We had a couple of organizations did come to this last summit. They're the least engaged people. I don't have to worry about offending anybody because they're not listening. Yeah, you know, because their company paid like, oh yeah, okay, whatever, you know, and they hung out with themselves and they just totally didn't take advantage of the opportunity that those who have invested are all in.

1:03:28 Dustin Brown: I mean, look, you look at Tom Brady, you look at LeBron, you look at any great athlete or professional or anybody out there, they're all paying somebody to help them be better. Yes, they have the organization helping, but they're all paying people outside the organization to help them be better in certain aspects.

1:03:45 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And it never stops, right? I mean, I think that's the other thing that you're just the perfect model of this is you didn't do this for yourself early in your career and then go, okay, cool. I got it now.

1:03:57 Dustin Brown: Yeah.

1:03:57 Scott Ingram: It's not how it works.

1:03:58 Dustin Brown: No, it's not how it works. It's not how it works. I annoy my boss because I'm always asking him questions of like, hey, what do you think about this? Or hey, like, gimme your feedback. I can do better here. You know, I don't know where, but I'm always looking for opportunities at work. I mean, cuz the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know it.

1:04:11 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

1:04:11 Dustin Brown: I don't have it dialed in. I don't know where that comes from. Certainly didn't have that when I was growing up in school, but certainly it's become more and more apparent of just, I don't know it yet. I just don't know it yet. Here I am, a top 1% on your podcast, but man, okay, what's next? I still have so much to learn and so much to grow. And even the basics still like, oh, I didn't know that. Let me go do that. And so again, I'm going outside of… my company provides a great training course and support and awesome, but You know, I wanna do this for me cuz it's important. And there's just, there's just something there with when I can just decouple it from my organization and go get it on my own.

1:04:44 Scott Ingram: Right.

1:04:44 Dustin Brown: So I'm a big, big, big fan and believer of that. And to your point, a lot of sellers think it's crazy, but the top ones don't. And so again, there's, is there a correlation? I think so, but maybe not.

1:04:54 Scott Ingram: Right, right. What about the flip side? Is there something that the typical sales professional believes that you think is crazy?

1:05:01 Dustin Brown: That relationships don't matter.

1:05:03 Scott Ingram: Oh, keep going.

1:05:03 Dustin Brown: Yeah. I want to be careful here. The data says that that's probably true, but I'm still not convinced that you can't do big deals, transformational deals, and make 7 figures if you can't develop relationships with your buyers. Again, I'm not talking about going to play golf. I'm not talking about yucking up at the bar. All that's fun, fine. If that's what you wanna do, cool. If they wanna do that, cool. Like no judgment there. But if they don't know and believe you care about them and you're trying to protect them and help them advance their careers or help them look good in the company and generally care about them, then they're not gonna reciprocate that. And you're just gonna make it that much harder on yourself to get these things through. They're not gonna give you the information you need. They're not gonna help you introduce you to the next stakeholder. They're going to keep you pretty much pigeonholed and you're going to, you know, the deal will die and atrophy and there you go. Now, the deal cycle is a month. Yeah, maybe it can be very quick transactional. You don't need a lot of engagement, but when you start working with like 5+, 6+ stakeholders, you probably should be able to build good relationships of trust. And on top of that, continue to develop those relationships. I have relationships with my buyers that have bought like 10 years ago from me that are still close friends. They're referring me to places. I'm referring them to places. And, you know, I've, you know, over the years I've built an incredible network of amazing people who I don't have. They're not gonna buy what I'm selling. I'm not gonna buy what they're selling, whatever. But like through that period of time, we did some great things together and, and I got some great friends outta that and I love that. And it's paying dividends.

1:06:38 Scott Ingram: I'm glad you called out the longevity piece, cuz I think this also ties into this again, like if it, to get to just extraordinary levels of earnings, 10, 15, 20 years. And that's not possible if you didn't do the relational work because you're not going to get those introductions. You're not going to be able to take advantage. I mean, this is… I love this and I hate this, all of the movement these days. I mean, it was already a factor before the Great Resignation, right?

1:07:09 Dustin Brown: Right.

1:07:09 Scott Ingram: Right. But now people are moving around so fast. It's amazing for me because, hey, this person from one of my best customers who we did great work with, who I've got a great relationship with, just went over to this other company and they need the same thing. And who do they call?

1:07:24 Dustin Brown: That's exactly right.

1:07:25 Scott Ingram: And you can't…

1:07:26 Dustin Brown: may not be your deal, but who do they call?

1:07:28 Scott Ingram: And I actually think like sales karma is a real thing.

1:07:32 Dustin Brown: Oh yeah.

1:07:33 Scott Ingram: And I have seen… here's the thing. You can't do this for 15 years if you're a jerk and you don't take care of people and you only take care of yourselves because what will happen is the sales karma will come and bite your butt. Yeah, because you're going to be in the deal of a lifetime and you're going to be late stage, and then they're going to hire this new executive and it's going to be somebody that bought from you 10 years ago who you screwed, especially in the tech space. It is totally…

1:07:59 Dustin Brown: it's getting smaller and smaller and smaller.

1:08:03 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And then that deal's tanked. Like, oh, I remember that guy. We will not be doing anything with them.

1:08:08 Dustin Brown: And guess what? Those conversations do happen.

1:08:11 Scott Ingram: For sure.

1:08:12 Dustin Brown: They do happen. I was talking to this executive and they're up for renewal for this one technology and she despised the seller and said, I'll go with an inferior product because I do not like this seller. Like, this is like a $500,000 or a million dollar renewal, a renewal, and she tanked it because of the sales guy. Right. Or, you know, so yeah. And then again, people buy crappy products all the time from people they like. Right? You may have the best technology. Cool. The buyer doesn't care. Yeah. Like again, people are still… if most technology these days, especially if you're a market leader, it's pretty on parity. There's gonna be significant and good nuances based on the outcomes. And, you know, we can get into that. But like when you're talking to 2 market leaders, what do you think is gonna win that deal? The technology or the relationship? All things considered, it's the relationship. Who do I trust more and who do I like more? They're gonna get the deal. Not, you know, just because yours has a different gizmo.

1:09:06 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

1:09:07 Dustin Brown: Or a widget.

1:09:07 Scott Ingram: There's so little differentiation in products these days anyway. Right.

1:09:10 Dustin Brown: Like, so the only thing that is going to differentiate is the sales process and the seller.

1:09:15 Scott Ingram: That's right. And do I trust that this organization and these people and that culture is going to take care of me? And have they shown that?

1:09:23 Dustin Brown: Yeah. You know, most buyers in the enterprise space are extremely shrewd and savvy buyers. They may not have bought your solution, Before, but if they know who's in it for themselves, or, you know, so sellers beware. They, they, they know they're not as probably as dumb as we think they are.

1:09:39 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:09:40 Dustin Brown: Yeah. No. So relationships are big, especially, you know, even if it's a short-term one, being able to, you know, build a strong foundation and, you know, to your point, and one of my biggest customers, you know, a woman left and she gave me a call, you know, I'm not her rep, but, you know, the fact she gave me a call and we had a good experience and I'm now I'm helping another rep get into a deal and, you know, hey, that's cool. Right?

1:10:00 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

1:10:00 Dustin Brown: Doesn't mean she's gonna invite me to her kid's wedding. I'd go, by the way, if she invited me, 'cause she's great. But, you know, I'm not talking about those kinds of relationships. And so I think the space sometimes gets a little, they just don't take a step back and think through what they mean by relationship. I think they're saying, you know, nobody wants to go play golf anymore.

1:10:16 Scott Ingram: Right.

1:10:17 Dustin Brown: Right. Or always go out for a drink. You know, that's a thing in your quiver. You know, they may wanna go do that. They may not, but you know, you can still build relationships of value and trust without all of the gimmicks.

1:10:26 Scott Ingram: Yeah, love it, love it. What advice do you have? I mean, we touched on this a little bit with some of the BDR stuff, but what advice would you have for somebody that's just getting started in their sales career today?

1:10:37 Dustin Brown: Have fun and learn and just take your time. Don't be in a rush. Learn, learn, learn, learn. Pay your dues. Develop. Mentor. Get mentors. You know, you help other people, but take your time. Learn. Develop the skills that you're going to need for long-term success. Like, I know some of these jobs are hard, not as sexy, don't seem as, you know, the financial opportunity may not be there, but just take your time, learn, grow. Those opportunities will come. Just be ready for them, but have fun and learn and develop. Like, doesn't need to be rocket science.

1:11:10 Scott Ingram: I love that. I wonder if this resonates because I feel like sales has just gotten more and more and more fun for me. Because I have been a student of the craft, because I have learned, because I've put in the work, it's gotten easier and I get to enjoy it more. Do you feel that?

1:11:26 Dustin Brown: Yeah. I mean, I know what you're saying. I think for me it's getting harder and more challenging, but I'm having a lot more fun because of that. There are certain things that are easier, but when I, for me, how I'm wired, if it gets easy, I gotta go. I've mastered it. I gotta go find something else. But I agree and I know exactly what you're saying. And so, but yeah. Like, I mean, I think definitely learn corporate finance. I think that would probably be another piece of advice. But yeah, I mean, I'm having the best time of my life right now. While it's hard, challenging, more complex, you know, there's never been more stakeholders involved than ever. So that's been really complex and challenging because you think you got something going and then all of a sudden, you know, a person comes out from nowhere. You're like, I thought I had that covered. But yeah, just, you know, the advice is just have fun, be patient and learn and develop. And we can go into each of those with more nuance, but that encapsulates the advice that I would give a seller coming in.

1:12:18 Scott Ingram: When you say it's getting harder though, I mean, is it the complexity? I mean, what is that?

1:12:22 Dustin Brown: I think it's, for me, there's a skill set of like, hey, I probably should understand corporate finances a little bit more. I think there's a skill and a knowledge gap that make my conversations harder because, you know, as I sell to more salespeople and as I talk to more senior execs, you know, that's where they live. They live in the finance space. They're not living in necessarily the outcomes space or what this does from a time saving. Like they're speaking a finance language. They're speaking in, in past and future. Mm-hmm. Okay. And finance. And I'm not really good at the finance stuff. And so that's why I'm saying it's, for me, it's hard. It's getting harder because as I'm going up and moving up the echelon and trying to target more senior executives, obviously I'm gonna be doing the selling and the transacting below, but I still need to be able to be fluent in executive speak. You know, that's a place where is being unlocked for me and I'm being invited. But because I've never been up there as often, I haven't developed certain skill set. And so that's kind of where it's getting hard for me because now I've got to go become a mini exec to go have that conversation. You know, being able to take all these conversations at different altitudes, to be a sausage maker and a sausage seller, you know, I got to be careful not to get the sausage smell on me. You know what I mean? That's a great analogy that somebody told me. I really liked it. But if I'm going to be… so I got to be able to learn the different altitudes in an organization. And be able to speak at those levels. And that's not easy to be talking to the feature functions person in the same room and then talking to the exec who doesn't care about any of that. Yeah. That's why I say it's getting harder because now I'm playing and I'm being invited into rooms I've never been in before, which is awesome. And it's a huge sign of confidence, but I'm beginning to recognize there's a gap here and I need to go fix it.

1:13:57 Scott Ingram: Nice. You'll have to check out Evan Kelsay did a presentation the virtual year that the 2020 summit… Why does his name sound…

1:14:02 Dustin Brown: is he at Seismic?

1:14:03 Scott Ingram: He's at Seismic.

1:14:04 Dustin Brown: Okay. I knew that. I knew that name somewhere. I think I connected him.

1:14:06 Scott Ingram: Evan did a session, a super entertaining session, but basically around kind of using all of the public company financial documents like 10-Ks. It was amazing. Yeah, I sent him on a mission because I knew he did it. I knew he did it well and he blew my mind. I learned so much from that.

1:14:23 Dustin Brown: So check that out. I mean, obviously everybody can read the words on a 10-K, but it's what those numbers are saying.

1:14:28 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And, you know, there's also other documents. And so that was really eye-opening for me because I was like, hey, I want to understand this.

1:14:35 Dustin Brown: Have you checked out 10-Qs? I think 10-Qs are actually even more fascinating than a 10-K. I'm a big fan of the 10-Qs, but no, I'll have to check out that presentation because I certainly want to become more capable in those rooms than I am. And I'm probably fine. Okay. But I don't think so.

1:14:49 Scott Ingram: So, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. I love it. So, I mean, it kind of goes to my next question is always what advice do you have for somebody that's kind of further into their career, right? So they're making their number, they're making club, like they're good, but they know just kind of like you've recognized, like, I know there's another gear here. I know there's great. What advice do you have for them?

1:15:07 Dustin Brown: Yeah, go pay for professional development. Go get an executive coach, right? Like, you may not be looking to go down that path career-wise, but go learn how to be and think and just become who you're talking to. So I think that's some advice that I was given and I'm doing, and I'm seeing that it's helping me get kicked into that gear. It's also finding people who are doing it. You know, for me, it's been Jamal. You know, he's kicked into a gear that I'm looking to get kicked into. And obviously, I think some of his What he was selling allowed for some of those size of deals. But nonetheless, you know, you're not doing 8-figure deals without knowing how to engage with executives in an appropriate manner. You know, obviously you want to get your executives aligned, but, you know, Jamal was in that room and he had a seat at that table and he was able to, you know, have that conversation and be viewed as a partner, not just some salesperson. So that's really important to me. And I would say for those who are looking to go to that next level, start to try to not be a seller anymore. Which is something that I'm learning. I think those are the two just kind of areas that I would just say, hey, go start there. You know, find who you align to, who you want to be, you know, and go start talking to them, understanding what they're doing and how they're doing it differently. But, you know, what I'm seeing that those people that do that others don't is that they invest in themselves or bettering themselves professionally on a constant basis. They're not just reading a free newsletter that comes out, right? Or they're not a part of just one Slack group. I mean, they're becoming students of the craft. I mean, think about ninjas, the old samurais, right? They all progressed, but they all just kind of had to keep developing, keep developing, keep developing their craft. They never just learned one move and, all right, now I'm a ninja or now I'm a samurai, right? Like there's just that series of just betterment. So I'm a real big fan of that right now. That would be the advice I would give to folks that are mid, late in their career. They're like, all right, I want to kick this up a little bit.

1:16:46 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. Love it. Love it. And we're going to add this to the mix. If you go to top1.fm/enterprise, I've kind of put together all of the enterprise episodes. So all the folks we've been talking about, the Jamal, Brandon, Evan, Ian Koniak, who I mean is a perfect example of a guy who, you know, was an average, maybe a little bit below performing rep at Salesforce and invested 5 figures in himself and then was number 1. Yeah. Again, correlation, causation. Yeah, I don't know. Like maybe you can argue that, but it's pretty tough to argue.

1:17:18 Dustin Brown: It's pretty tough to argue. I mean, like I don't recommend credit card debt or whatever, but go invest yourself. You don't have to have the money right now. Go invest in yourself. You'll make it back.

1:17:26 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

1:17:26 Dustin Brown: The ROI is 100% there. So, you know, I've never spent high 5 figures on myself and it's pretty scary, but I'm a couple months in and I'm, man, I can tell that it's really like, yeah, this is cool. This is where I need to be. And so, yeah, I'm a big fan of that. And I would also say like leverage sales tech. Like Leverage it. Like quit dragging your feet, embrace it, get into it. It is so awesome. Who cares how your management uses it? If you're trying to be better, you're not going to care about the visibility anyways. Just adopt it and jump in it because sales tech has also changed my trajectory, like in a big way. Like it just made me faster and more agile and more efficient, man. This allows me to go do what I do best and that's engage… well, I think I do best, but it allows me just to go engage with people. And sell. I get to go solve problems. I don't have to do all this other crap that just sucks as a seller, you know, cause I'm not selling, I'm not making money. Right. And so anyways, sales tech is good. It's not your enemy.

1:18:22 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

1:18:23 Dustin Brown: It's not your enemy. Embrace it.

1:18:24 Scott Ingram: Yeah. That's awesome. I mean, you're speaking to all the stuff I'm working on, right? So we're working on bringing together the sales tech ecosystem and then, you know, I mean, out of absolute selfishness, but it is, we're driven the same way. Like I love to help people. This is the most rewarding thing I can do is to inspire somebody, to give them access to somebody like you that's going to help them get to the next level. So if you're here and this is resonating at all, the summit is so freaking cheap compared to what you could be spending the money on. And hell, I broke it down so you can pay for it monthly. Yeah. You know, like get in there. And again, if you're ready to commit and go all the way in, do this Summit Climbers thing, right? Like call your shot just like Dustin did. Go find the mentors, go find the resources. And I'm literally pulling it together.

1:19:12 Dustin Brown: It's not even an extra thing, man. That's just cool. That's all I got to say. That's just so cool, Scott.

1:19:16 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And here's what I know is going to happen, because I mean, all of these folks have become my friends because I also believe in relationships. Yeah. They're… while I've asked them to come into that channel because they've been on the podcast, because they are perennial top performers, and I've asked them to help the people that are saying, hey, I'm going to do it, I want to be there, they're going in there for themselves too, because they know That's right. I need to be surrounded with. I have so much more to learn.

1:19:46 Dustin Brown: Yeah. It's kind of like once you see the wizard, right? You're like, okay, I want to hang out here more. So I'm going to keep investing and keep coming back to this room.

1:19:52 Scott Ingram: Yeah. I got to get me some levers and some buttons.

1:19:54 Dustin Brown: That's exactly right. That's really cool. Look, timeline ROI, I don't know, but like, again, the other part is the people you meet at these summits and at these events and in these things, it's, you know, become friends, mentors, and, you know, look, I don't got it all figured out, but I know people who are smarter in certain areas than me. I've developed a great network to go help me there. I think you're putting it together and it's just cool to see the community making it. You've made it so simple. I mean, like just 5 years ago or 4 years ago, like you had to like hunt for these people.

1:20:21 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

1:20:21 Dustin Brown: Like now, I mean, now they're all like, like there's no, there's, yeah, it's just, it's so easy.

1:20:26 Scott Ingram: We'll all be in Austin in October. Yeah.

1:20:27 Dustin Brown: So it's so easy. The access to these folks is unprecedented and so awesome. And they're all really good people too. I have not come across A dud.

1:20:36 Scott Ingram: Here's my theory about that, right? I mean, you've been at this a while. You've worked in a lot of different organizations. When I came into this show, I mean, this has been stereotype smashing for me because I had a couple of thoughts and theories about what the very best of the very best looked like. I think there's 2 types. There's basically all of the people that come on this show. There are still… there are assholes. Who get to number 1 who were just absolute jerks. I think this show is self-selecting though, because they have no interest in giving back and helping the next generation, or maybe even worse, exposing that they're jerks. They don't come on the show.

1:21:16 Dustin Brown: Yeah.

1:21:16 Scott Ingram: So there may be some self-selection bias that happens. And so it's probably not fair to say, hey, all of the great enterprise sellers care more about their customers and their results than they do their own W-2. But that's kind of the…

1:21:30 Dustin Brown: there's…

1:21:30 Scott Ingram: that is correlation and causation. Yeah.

1:21:32 Dustin Brown: And they're, and they're, and There is a, I'm seeing it happen because I used to think all the greats were chest thumpers or like, yeah, just really like just empty humans. The ones I'm seeing at top now aren't really good down-to-earth people.

1:21:45 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

1:21:45 Dustin Brown: That don't have any extra special skillset. Like everybody here can do it.

1:21:50 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

1:21:50 Dustin Brown: Right.

1:21:50 Scott Ingram: Well, I mean, you said, it's so funny cuz I feel like I have to pull, like Dustin didn't reach out to me thumping his chest going, hey man, 300%, when are we doing that podcast episode? Like we gotta make this happen. I had to pull, and you told me I'm boring. There's nothing I'm doing.

1:22:07 Dustin Brown: So well, we'll see on the comments. We'll see on the comments how you guys decide this for us.

1:22:11 Scott Ingram: Reach out to Dustin on LinkedIn and tell him that he's just an absolute bore, and it was just unbelievable how painful it was to listen to this episode. I want you to tell him that.

1:22:21 Dustin Brown: Yeah, you can't.

1:22:23 Scott Ingram: But not true. I really enjoyed the hell out of this conversation.

1:22:24 Dustin Brown: But you can if you want. I'm open to that feedback too. Just just be nice about it. But it's interesting, like, you know, some of the people I looked up to, I thought were great sellers, are just complete asshats and empty people, and I'm sad for them. And I just never decided… I didn't ever want to trade my compass for that if that's what it took to get to the top. But I also think… I just think the market's demanding a much different profile, and it's really kind of cool seeing that, you know, while I don't wish anything bad on people, but it's kind of nice to start seeing the good guys, and I mean girls as well, in that comment, you know, having their day now. And having the opportunity to serve customers and do the right things and enjoy the fruits of their labor and the success they deserve. Because it's nice to see the good people are starting to like being able to come outta the shadows a little bit more and have a place at the top and have a place in the sales society, if you will. Yeah. So it's, you know, I'm trying every day to be worthy of, of that comment, but it's definitely nice to see that.

1:23:13 Scott Ingram: I think sales karma, it's real.

1:23:14 Dustin Brown: Yeah, it's real. It's real. I agree. I agree. Anyways, man, I've pontificated enough on you here. Hopefully the listeners and you found this to be a valuable conversation.

1:23:23 Scott Ingram: Let's do 2 more things.

1:23:23 Dustin Brown: Okay.

1:23:23 Scott Ingram: Was there anything that we didn't get to? Was there anything when you're like, I'm going to talk to Scott and I want to make sure that his audience knows this. Is there anything we missed?

1:23:34 Dustin Brown: No, no. I think we did pretty good. I think, you know, we probably could have gone deeper on some things and deconstructed some things some more, but you know, there's YouTube videos on that. You can go watch those, but you know, I'll leave your audience with go find mentors, ask for help, you know, raise your hand, get better. It's not that hard. You just got to do it.

1:23:51 Scott Ingram: There you go. It's been too long since I've done a round 2. And so maybe some of these folks in the enterprise space, and again, they are some of the most involved members of the community, Jamal, David, Brandon, all those guys, Evan, if you have those follow-up questions, so you're listening to this and you wish that I had gone deeper with Dustin on something, let me know. We can put something together. That would be really fun. And then you're already kind of headed down this path. The last question we always have is, we talked about a lot of stuff. How do we make this actionable? Like, what is the specific thing that the person listening to this should do over the course of the next week or two to improve themselves and improve their results?

1:24:27 Dustin Brown: You know, I have a lot of thoughts there. I think right now, take a break. That's really top of mind for me. Take a break, rest yourself, and be intentional with what you're trying to do each day. I know that may not be super actionable, but it's so incredibly important. I think that That is really top of mind. I feel impressed that that's what I want to leave it on. So take care of yourself, get some rest, and just be intentional with what you want out of each day and outcome, and then the rest will follow. Reach out to me if you have any specific questions. Forgive me if I take too long to respond, but I will. But take care of yourself first and foremost, and yeah, get some rest.

1:25:01 Scott Ingram: Good for you. So having done many of my own daily sales tips, I think probably what's happening here is I'm often giving advice to myself. Yeah. Yeah. Dustin, this has been amazing.

1:25:12 Dustin Brown: It's been great, man.

1:25:13 Scott Ingram: Thanks, my friend.

1:25:14 Dustin Brown: Yeah, thank you. Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast. To be sure you never miss an episode and for an invitation to our Sales Success Community powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter at top1.fm.