128: Gartner's Angie Donato - An Intentional Leader

0:00 Scott Ingram: This episode is brought to you thanks to the generous support of QuotaPath, Vidyard, and Skipio. To learn more about them and all of our sponsors who are supporting you and the Sales Success Community, just click over to top1.fm/sponsors. You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies To help you improve. To learn more, visit us at top1.fm. Here's your host, Scott Ingram. Today on the Sales Success Stories podcast, my guest is Angie Donato. Angie is the top senior sales executive in the HR practice at Gartner. Welcome to the show, Angie.

0:49 Angie Donato: Hi, Scott.

0:50 Scott Ingram: Glad to have you here. And once again, I owe Steve Meyer and the Top Percentile Collective a thank you for connecting me to Angie, where she's an active founding member of that organization. I'm sure we'll talk about TPC more in a few minutes. But before we do that, let's kick things off like we always do with some immediate value. Angie, what do you believe are the top 3 things that have contributed the most to your success in sales?

1:13 Angie Donato: That's such a great question, right? It made me think a little bit about what I think, if I can narrow it down to sort of 3 things. And I think first and foremost, it's always about preparation. And for me, that's, that's even before reaching out at all, right? Anything I do beforehand. So that means like doing my homework. Learning about the company, not just what they do, but what do they want to do? Do they want to grow? Are they looking to increase efficiencies or optimize costs? And then trying to think through a little bit around, okay, well, based on that, like, what are obstacles that they're going to face to achieve their goals? And then I think for me, the second part of it is just understanding the people at the organization, you know, the people who are responsible for solving those problems. Are they a good fit? Maybe not, right? And then it's really about tailoring my outreach. And so, I spend probably a lot more time than most around that whole preparation piece of it, even before the first time I send an email or make a phone call.

2:08 Scott Ingram: Love that. And what is kind of the scale of your territory? Because I'm guessing you're working on larger deals that affords you a little bit more opportunity to dig a little bit deeper. And so, it's more of a quantity or quality over quantity type approach, right?

2:21 Angie Donato: Yeah, absolutely. It's definitely quality over quantity. I mean, I think it's a pretty, you know, a pretty good scope. It is geographically based, right? So it's really around, and then when I look at it, when I look at those territories, it's doing that homework and then prioritizing the outreach, right? Prioritizing based on some of the things that I've learned, some of the things that I know about organizations that look similar to other accounts in my territory. So that's really a big, big part of it for me is just taking the time upfront and really planning and prioritizing the things I want to do.

2:55 Scott Ingram: Perfect. So preparation is the first thing. You already sent me some notes, so I know what the second thing is, and I'm going to absolve you from this today.

3:02 Angie Donato: Okay, I love it. So the second thing for me is listen more than I talk. And so what that really means is just, I think sometimes sales professionals feels like, gosh, you know what, I only have a certain amount of time with these folks. I really want to make sure I say everything and get everything out in a short period of time. But I find for me, it is being a good listener to be much more helpful. And so it's asking thoughtful questions, right? Which is really developed by good preparation and actually listen to their responses and be curious to learn more. That's like asking them, why is that? Or tell me more about that. Because their responses are really going to be helpful to confirm your hypothesis or take it in a different direction. I really focus on sharing, listening, and adapting to really build that understanding. If I'm talking way too much in my first conversation with folks, then I know something's not right and I got to make sure that it's all much more around listening and pausing and just trying to understand a little bit more.

4:03 Scott Ingram: Now, do you find that part of your preparation is coming up with, with some of those questions so that you're really putting yourself into that place where you can listen and you don't have to think, what am I going to ask next?

4:14 Angie Donato: Yeah, absolutely, right? It's, you know, I go into every conversation with a plan, with a hypothesis, right, based on the things that I know or the things that I've learned in my research about the organization, about the person that I'm speaking to, and also thinking about like, Do they look like other companies or other people that I've worked with or helped or solved problems? Then develop a hypothesis around that, right? Because it's important to show the person that you've done your work and that it's not just, you know, you're treating them like everybody else because you're not. Everyone's different.

4:46 Scott Ingram: Perfect. Perfect. All right. What's number 3?

4:48 Angie Donato: It's really about the ability to embrace change. And so that's like in the world, right? Because the pace of change and certainly in the business world has accelerated. Of course, with COVID it's much more accelerated now. And so the things that maybe you've done before, last year, last month, last week, are not going to be working. And so it's learning and adapting to that change, and not only like externally, but also change that might be going on with your client's organization. Things change all the time. There's a reorg, somebody left, somebody got fired, you know, the CEOs change the, you know, the direction of where they're going to go. And so I find being able to be adaptable and change and be agile has really helped me be successful. And I find those who aren't able to or really struggle with change tend to fall a little bit behind.

5:33 Scott Ingram: Perfect. All right. Well, let's contextualize this. Why don't you talk a little bit about your role, about Gartner, about kind of your place in Gartner and what you do inside the HR practice?

5:43 Angie Donato: Gartner integrates research-based insights, expert guidance, and tools directly into the workflow of our clients. And so, We work with leaders in all major functions in every industry and company size. So my role is Senior Business Development Director in our HR practice, which means I'm responsible for establishing new business relationships with Chief Human Resource Officers and their teams in, in large organizations. And so I'll own the full sales cycle from lead generation to prospecting through close.

6:12 Scott Ingram: Excellent. And then let's put your results in perspective because you've done pretty well, which is, it's why you're on the show.

6:18 Angie Donato: Right. So yeah, I've been fortunate. You know, I work with a great group of folks that have helped enable my success. You know, it's not, you never, you know, it's never just one person. And so last year I was Gartner's Global Top Achiever in my role. So that means I was number one in my role based on percent to goal in all of Gartner Business Solutions globally. So that's thousands of people. And so it was pretty humbling to get that in a year of such difficulty, right? And such change with COVID And so that means roughly, you know, 190 to 200% of goal, which is the highest goal in the highest goal class on my team. And so, in addition to that, for the last 3 years, I've achieved what they call an Eagle Achiever. And that's… I've had that every year since I've been at Gartner. And that's the highest level achievement for commercial team, all commercial team members. So, not just within my role, but anybody who has a goal within the organization. And that's also based on a percent of goal.

7:09 Scott Ingram: That's fantastic. Congrats.

7:11 Angie Donato: Thank you.

7:12 Scott Ingram: Whether or not you're achieving at the same extraordinary levels that Angie is, you probably want to be able to accurately track your commissions. With QuotaPath, you can do this for yourself by connecting QuotaPath to your CRM, or better yet, you can implement QuotaPath for your full team and completely streamline compensation management in an accurate and transparent way. You can learn more at top1.fm/quotapath. Well, let's talk about your origin story a bit. How did you get into sales in the first place?

7:43 Angie Donato: So I think, you know, like a lot of people, I didn't actually plan on getting into sales. I stumbled into it after graduating from university. Like many new grads, you know, I was looking for a job and I ended up landing a contract job at an owner-led direct response marketing firm. I thought, okay, this is kind of an interesting business. And, and shortly after I started the job, I realized there were inefficiencies in what they were asking me to do. And so I came up with a solution to the problem and brought it to the attention of my manager, knowing full well that exposing these inefficiencies would mean that the overall job that I was hired to do would be completed in half the time. And she was really nice. She was great. She was open to my suggestions and thrilled about the potential impact. And shortly after that, there was a full-time coordinator position that became available in the organization's international sales team, working with their clients in the Middle East and India. And so my manager at the time went to the head of the international sales team and suggested that he hire me. And I think, if I'm honest, she more than suggested, she was quite a force. And she brought me into his office and I knew who he was at the organization. And he's a pretty intimidating guy. He was not only in stature, like he's really tall, you know, I'm 5'2, on a good day. And he was known around the office, you know, smart, no-nonsense type leader who was responsible for the largest growth at the firm. And so here I am in my… in his office with my current manager who started the conversation with this, like, this introduction, like, this is Angie, this is the girl I was telling you about, you should hire her now. And so when I said she was force, I really meant it. So needless to say, I got the job. And that really was the first step in my, in my sales career. It really laid the foundation and taught me a lot. And I think for it being a smaller firm, I was afforded a lot of learning opportunities. So not necessarily formal training, right, that you would get in larger organizations, but I learned a lot from the people around me. I was able to try and do different things, and that trial and error really, I think, exposed me to so many different ways of working with folks. And of course, working with folks in the Middle Eastern region, that was a whole other, you know, piece that I knew nothing about. And so it allowed me just to really be able to understand people's differences. And I think at the end of the day that, you know, it's yourself, you're in any sales environment, whether they're current clients or new clients, that they're people, right? And just understanding how that works and being genuine were really huge parts of my learning.

10:10 Scott Ingram: That's fantastic. And then what took you to… I'm sure CEB and that acquisition is kind of what brought you into Gartner. How'd you get into CEB?

10:18 Angie Donato: So, see, I actually came from another acquisition. So CEB acquired a small organization that I went to work for, startup that I went to work there. They was responsible, they were selling to big companies, but more selling around insights for small business owners. So it was a B2B environment and it was more of a consulting firm, a little boutique consulting firm. And so I worked there for a while, started out in account management and sales and ended up managing some folks on the team. And then that organization was acquired by CEB. So when I say, you know, change and kind of getting comfortable with the uncomfortable, that's really a lot of what my career is around. So it was like that. And then CEB was then acquired by Gartner.

11:02 Scott Ingram: And I mean, as you look back at your career journey, is there anything you would have done differently if you were starting over today, kind of knowing what you know now?

11:11 Angie Donato: Gosh, I think the biggest thing would be that I wish I would have been probably more confident in my skills and abilities and the impact that I had on companies that I worked for. And I know, I think a lot of people, women especially, like suffer from that imposter syndrome. And quite honestly, I would say I'm certainly one of them. And it's not like I knew what it was at the time or knew that it even had a name, but realizing that now it's like, gosh, I wish I would have been a little bit more confident in trusting what I do. And now, just from that learning experience, I really spend time and enjoy mentoring other women who are earlier on in their careers. And I share that with them and just try to help them understand that it's important that you value what you do and you ensure that other people are aware of it too, and not just think like it's a one-time thing or, gosh, that's not me, it was somebody else, and take ownership of it.

12:04 Scott Ingram: What does that sound like? Because this, this comes up a lot, and I would love to hear kind of what that coaching sounds like specifically, right? When you're talking to women and, and really encouraging them to exhibit more confidence and know that they're, they're more responsible for the greatness that they're producing than, than maybe they're taking credit for.

12:20 Angie Donato: Yeah, you know what, it differs. It just depends on the person and, and where they are and their ability to do that. But I just, I just walk them through and remind them and, and go, well, gosh, well, who, who did that? And whose idea was that? And remember that It was your experience that was helpful. And just remind them that they need to feel good about what they do. And even more so too, I think, when things don't go right, like when maybe they lose a deal or something happens, or something at the organization happens, or someone else gets a promotion over them. And it's really around just understanding why that is and giving them a place to actually just talk about it. And again, just listen and think about then taking the learning and what they would do differently next time.

13:03 Scott Ingram: You may have noticed that I try to interject with mentions of our sponsors in relevant spots, and following this discussion about imposter syndrome and confidence might be a really good place to talk about Vidyard. I'm sure you've heard me talk about Vidyard before, and you know that it's a super easy way to incorporate video into your prospecting or sales process, but I have a feeling a lot of you haven't tried it because you're not confident or even comfortable with video. If that's where you're at, I want to encourage you to lean into that discomfort. There's really no better way to stand out and come across authentically than with video. Try it today, even if you're not confident yet. Click over to top1.fm/vidyard to download their free plugin today, and then let me know how it goes. Well, we call the show Sales Success Stories, and I would love to hear your favorite sales story?

13:59 Angie Donato: Oh gosh, that's a good question. I think for me it's got to be around the time when Gartner acquired CEB, and anybody who's been through any acquisition knows that it's challenging. There's change that goes on, and so there was a shift in the way we needed to do things. There was a big learning curve. Ultimately, you know, for us it was a better way. It was a better way that we could serve HR leaders and their team. And so for me, I saw that as a challenge. It was like, okay, well, wait a minute. I need to learn. I need to do something different. I need to figure out and adapt how I'm going to change what I was doing that made me successful. Like, I was successful at it, but change and learn in a new way. And so I think for me, the favorite one is the first deal that I got in this new model because it was a big success because there was a few of us that were sort of pushed out into the forefront and went, okay, like, help us figure this out so then we can take what you've learned and teach it to more folks on the team and at the organization. And so being able to figure that out and just being able to not only know that this new client that I brought on, you know, to leverage the Gartner service was a big win for me and for the team, but also I really love when I see that they've renewed their service with Gartner or that they've grown it, because that's just an indication to me that we're helping them and we're doing something right. So I would say it was definitely that first one when it came to that transition through the acquisition.

15:25 Scott Ingram: Well, and as somebody who's been through multiple acquisitions, I know, especially as it's happening, right, in the early stages of it gets announced, you know, this is going to happen. There's some really high-level conversations. How are you thinking through kind of that period? Because I know a lot of people get nervous about that. They're not quite sure how to evaluate it. And, you know, they think, well, do I stay? Do I go? What's going on here? What's your advice for people who find themselves in that situation? Because I think we're about to see a lot more of it. I think M&A activity is, is really starting to accelerate.

15:58 Angie Donato: Yeah, no, I definitely agree with you. I see it a lot, and it's a tough go, especially when you are the company that's being acquired, right? It makes it definitely more challenging. And so having been through one before, the CEB-Gartner one, I, I had a little bit of a sense of, of what to expect. So I think I was probably in a little bit of a better position than some other folks that didn't know, right? And so I would say it's It's not to panic and kind of take things in stride. Know that change is going to be coming. And in most cases, it's good change. And if it's not and it doesn't work for you and you've given it that time, then it's a time that you need to look elsewhere is sort of what I say to folks. But I think the first and most important thing is not to panic because, gosh, your mind can go in all crazy places, right? I'm going to get laid off. They're going to change my job. They're going to do different things and I'm not willing or wanting to make those changes. I think if you embrace the change and you are challenged by it, then I think you're probably going to be successful.

16:53 Scott Ingram: Yeah, I'll share my perspective on this too. So, I was at Eloqua and we were acquired by Oracle. And I've coached a number of people through this. And I think, you know, I think we tend to be a little bit too reactionary, right? I mean, this is a process. It definitely takes time. And I think it takes a while to play out and for you to really know, is this a good thing? Is this a bad thing? Sometimes it can be a great thing. Sometimes if you hang on and you become kind of this subject matter expert in this new thing that, you know, a larger organization or a different organization paid a ton of money for, some big opportunities can open up. So I just encourage people to, you know, be patient, wait to see how it actually plays out. And like with anything, I think you always need to be mindful of just, you know, making sure that you're network is strong and intact, right? Because if something does go sideways, you want to make sure that you've got other outlets and other opportunities. But by and large, it could be awesome.

17:53 Angie Donato: I totally agree with you. And especially like in my case, we're both cases that we were, you know, bought by a large organization. There were a lot more opportunities. And I will say like, like at Gartner in itself, like so many of the folks that I work with have moved on into different roles, choose the management track or something like that. So there are lots of different career opportunities, but I think you're right. It's, it's about not being reactionary and being patient and waiting and learning and trying to understand how you fit into the bigger picture and understand more broadly, you know, what are the other opportunities that can be there for you. So, because for me, in both cases, like I stayed with the organization. And there was, you know, especially with the first one, I really wasn't planning to, but I ended up staying. And in both times, it worked out for me beneficial.

18:36 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Now, now you have been in management roles. Why have you chosen to stay in an individual contributor role?

18:43 Angie Donato: Yeah. So I think for me, both times I've been in manager roles, I've been in manager roles at smaller organizations. And I really do enjoy seeing my team succeed and seeing them kind of learn and adapt. And I really do love that part of it. I think staying in the individual… going back or staying into an individual contributor role, for me, is much more around just being able to kind of manage my own time and I made the switch more when my kids were younger, so it allowed me to be more flexible, right? And it allowed me to manage my own time. And I think for me, those were the, the key things. Not that I'm ruling out that I may never go back in the future. I might at some point. But for me at the time, and for now, it's what works best.

19:28 Scott Ingram: Yep. Yep. That's certainly my approach. I call myself an intentional individual contributor. And it's about, it's about freedom, right? Like, I really like to be in control of my own schedule. I don't like having a lot of other people controlling my calendar.

19:41 Angie Donato: And it's also like, I really love talking to clients. And, you know, in the manager track, it's much more of an internal lens, right? Like, it's much more… most of the time is more on internal conversations, like how do we make things easier for the folks who are on the front lines and so on. So I would probably miss, or I have missed before when I managed, being able to like have those conversations with clients because it's always something new and different.

20:06 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, you have had a lot of success. You've had consistent success. What are you most proud of?

20:13 Angie Donato: I would say that's probably it. I would say it's the consistency in being a top performer. So, you know, there are folks that can, you know, be, you know, there's top performers for a quarter or for a year, which is fantastic and hard to do. And for me, being able to do that year after year in an environment where business gets more complex every year, like it never gets any easier, your goal increases, your accounts might shrink, right? And so I think for me, that's That's probably the piece of it that I'm most proud of.

20:41 Scott Ingram: Excellent. What about the flip side? What do you find to be the most challenging part?

20:45 Angie Donato: Just in this role or challenging overall? Whatever I found most challenging.

20:49 Scott Ingram: Just leave it open-ended, however you want to take that.

20:51 Angie Donato: OK. I think if I go back, like, and I, like, think about, like, in all the time that I've been in some sort of commercial role, what I've struggled, and I would probably say, and we touched on it, but really was hard for me in that first acquisition. And it was really hard, and I struggled a lot because I was at a small startup. It was a small company where boutique firm where no brand recognition, like you had to, it was the owner's last name and you had to spell it all the time. It was a crazy environment, but it was an environment that was, we moved quickly, we could make decisions quickly. And it was exciting to watch it build and grow. And here I then was acquired by this much bigger organization where it's like, oh gosh, I'm just going to be a number, right? At this big company. And I just come off my, maternity leave for my third child. And I'm like, you know what, I don't really need this. I don't really need this like extra complexity around that. And so I really had that kind of those, one of those, you know, fork in the roads moment around, you know, what am I going to do? Am I going to just like say no thanks and not want to move forward with this company and kind of shift gears a little bit, maybe stay home with the kids for a little bit and, you know, change roles or not. And it was a big caused me a lot of internal stress because I was having people saying, no, stay. And then I was hearing, no, actually stay home. Right? And so one of the senior leaders of CEB that acquired the company that I was there kind of said, like I expressed this, and he said to me, you know what? We really want you to stay, which was really kind. And then he said, let's work out an arrangement where you try this for like 6 months. And if you don't like it and it's not working out, then you can leave and we'll give you a nice package. Right? And so Giving me that flexibility was a key differentiator for me. And it caused the struggle in me to stop. 'Cause I was like, okay, I can do that. I can try this for 6 months and see if it works out and see if I like it. And then if I don't, I've kind of got the safety net of being able to take a package. And so I tried it and, you know, was difficult for sure. For the first 3 months or so, I definitely was challenging. I was remote, you know, and a lot of folks were based in an office. At the end, you know, it worked out and I'm glad that I made that decision. But boy, I think that for me, that was probably the biggest, one of the biggest struggles in my career is just figuring out which fork in the road to take.

23:16 Scott Ingram: Yeah, this is really interesting, right? Because I think your perspective on, you know, being acquired and thinking through that is really helpful. The other thing I think is important for people to really consider is, you know, what size of organization do you want to work for? Because they're very different things, right? They have their pluses and minuses, and you already talked to some, right? I mean, name recognition can be a big one. You know, if you've only ever worked for a big company with a really well-known brand, it can be a little bit shocking when you, when you go to work for something that nobody's ever heard of. How do you think about just those differences and the pros and cons and things like that?

23:54 Angie Donato: I mean, it's definitely a series of trade-offs, right? Like I was saying, in a smaller firm, you're much more agile. Your voice is heard more, right? You're able to respond to things quickly, but yet part of the battle is just getting people to take your call or understand what you do. And so a lot of the fun I had was working at that organization and watching it grow and change. And then CEB, while certainly had some brand recognition, there's more process when you get to a bigger organization, right? There's more… especially I found like in manager roles, right? They're much more defined in what you do. And so there's trade-offs all around, and I'm lucky enough that, I mean, I work for Gartner now. I don't think I've met folks who I talk to that don't know the brand name. And it certainly has its benefits when you have that behind you in what you're looking to do. And so to me, it's like where I counsel people more around like, what do you enjoy doing in your job? Do you enjoy having that more impact that you would in smaller organizations? Or do you really like process and frameworks? Right? You know, things like training. Like, in smaller organizations, there's no training. You know, there's no training. You're figuring it out as you go and so on. And so, it's really, I think, and I'm fortunate enough that I've been in all different scenarios, and it's really about where do you thrive and where do you get your joy from? What's bringing the joy for you?

25:22 Scott Ingram: Yeah, yeah, that's great stuff. And at the end of the day, that's one of those things where I think you maybe almost have to just experience both sides of it. It's really hard to know from the outside, oh, I belong in small companies, or I belong in large organizations. You just kind of have to experience that for yourself to be able to really know which you enjoy the most.

25:42 Angie Donato: For sure. And, you know, sometimes what I tell some of the younger folks that are earlier in their career, if they've either been in a big company, right, since, you know, they were you know, recruited off campus, let's say, and done that, I encourage them in their next career choice to try something different because sometimes you don't know what you don't know, right? And where you're going to find the thing that you like and the type of environment that you like to work in. And don't assume that it's always the same. And also don't assume the grass is greener because it's not always. But I think you're right. You really need to experience it yourself to understand what fits best for you.

26:17 Scott Ingram: Talking about smaller, more nimble organizations has me thinking about Scipio here. There's really something special about working with a hungry, service-oriented company that's in those earlier stages. I've experienced myself some of their technical expertise and creativity as they've helped us incorporate text messaging into our own experience, especially as people are signing up for our upcoming Sales Success Summit livestream experience. And if you're one of those who's going to be joining us in person in Austin this October, you'll have an opportunity to meet their CEO, who's a pretty fantastic sales guy in his own right. Check them out and experience what it's like to work with a small, super caring organization like Skipio at top1.fm/Skipio. That's S-K-I-P-I-O, top1.fm/Skipio. Well, I would love to understand some of your routines, kind of what a day in the looks like. So your alarm goes off, what time does that happen? And give us kind of a blow-by-blow until your head hits the pillow.

27:24 Angie Donato: Okay, it usually goes off around 6:30, but to be quite honest, I'm usually awake before that. So it's, you know, get up, I have breakfast if I can, it's like something outside and quiet. I'll have breakfast and then it's usually walking the dog. I like to go for a walk in the morning if I can, quiet. I really… morning is my favorite time of day. So like to do that. I will then 3 or 4 times a week exercise. I try to get that done in the morning if possible. And then I'm usually at my desk around, I don't know, around 8, trying to just… I may be sending a couple of emails, having a quick look at the plan. Then it's usually when it's school, when school season, it's getting kids off to school. And then my day, I like to block off Every Monday I will block off a good hour just for focus time to understand, like, plan the week ahead. What do I have coming up? What are the things I need to do in preparation for those meetings? And I'm usually on calls between, you know, 10 and 12. I'm not the kind of person who likes to do back-to-back calls. I always keep time in between. And I think that's just for me because I like to be prepared. I like to make sure I have everything you know, just aligned in front of me what I need to do. I always stop for lunch. I can't… I hate when people schedule lunch meetings. I always stop for lunch. And then again, it'll be a chance for me to also go out and go for a walk. I need to, especially I think over the last couple of years, I realized more and more I need to get away from my desk. I need to get away from the screen if possible. And just, you know, just for my own break, if you will. Afternoon, same sort of thing. It's calls. 1 to 3-ish, I would say. I usually block off 3 to 4 in the day, whether I need to pick somebody up or again, it's some focus time. It's really around things that outcomes of conversations or meetings that I might've had earlier so that I make sure that I'm thorough with my follow-up. And then dinner, I usually, I try to cook, not always, but I try to cook something. And then wherever possible, I love having a family dinner. With everyone's schedule and craziness that goes on, it doesn't always happen, but I really like to make sure that we can and get together at least, you know, 3 times a week where we're all together and have time as a family. And then it's usually out again, out walking or going for a bike ride, and then TV or TikTok. Sometimes I'll go through and look at TikTok a little bit, and then bedtime, usually around between 11 and 12.

29:54 Scott Ingram: There you go. I'm hearing there's a lot of intentionality to your schedule, right, in, in the way that you're blocking time to schedule your week, you're really intentional about getting outside and getting kind of those regular breaks and the exercise and the walks in. Also just being intentional about the way that… I'm gonna think about this for myself… spacing meetings, because wall-to-wall is just brutal.

30:16 Angie Donato: It is key. And anytime I have people that work with me and put meetings on my calendar, it's one of the first things I say to them. It's like, I know my limits, and I am not good when I'm doing back-to-back meetings. It's just not something I'm good at. And I've recognized that I'm not good at it. So I intentionally, and you're absolutely right, it is intentional. I intentionally, I will delay a meeting if I need to, right? If it's like, oh, they're only available 3 to 4 on Monday and I'm not, well, or I could be, but it's back to back. I'll move it. I would rather delay the meeting to a time that works where I don't feel rushed, where I have the opportunity to prepare than to just accept that and do a meeting that I think is not going to be very good. It's not going to be helpful for them, for the person on the other end or for me.

31:00 Scott Ingram: That's really interesting. What is your typical buffer or your minimum buffer?

31:04 Angie Donato: Minimum buffer is 15, but I usually do half an hour.

31:08 Scott Ingram: Okay. Okay. All right. You're inspiring me to think about this.

31:11 Angie Donato: Good.

31:13 Scott Ingram: Because I don't like that feeling of running from meeting to meeting to meeting.

31:16 Angie Donato: Oh, I'm sure.

31:17 Scott Ingram: You're just sort of harried and you feel like you're cutting somebody off because you're like, I've got to go. I've got a hard stop. I hate that.

31:23 Angie Donato: I hate it too. And I find that's what I'm doing. I'm looking at the clock. I'm like, oh gosh. This is, you know, I'm having a really great conversation and you know what, I'm looking at the clock, it's like I got 5, and I'm not focusing. I'm not giving that person my full attention. I'm not doing a really good job. So for me, I need that ability. There are some people who can do it, right? There are some people who are like, oh yeah, great, more the merrier. I just know I can't.

31:45 Scott Ingram: Are there any other habits or routines that are kind of core to the way that you operate and function?

31:50 Angie Donato: I think it really is, and I liked what you said about intentionality. It's just really approaching my day, my week with intentionality. I think The piece that has evolved for me over the last couple of years is really those mental breaks. If we had this conversation 2 or 3 years ago, I'd be like, yeah, I try to get out, but I don't, or I try to exercise, but I don't, because I would do something else instead. I've really focused on being intentional about keeping that time, like that focus time in my calendar, and making sure that I do have that time. For a lunch break, or, you know, it may not be at the same time every day, but some sort of break where I will not only, you know, of course eat, but try to exercise in some way, try to get outside, try to, you know, have a… even have a conversation, just a social conversation with a friend or something like that to just get my mind away from work.

32:44 Scott Ingram: Interesting. You know, something that has come up on my radar here recently that has me… I haven't incorporated yet, but I'm really looking at pretty hard UnitedHealthcare is part of their, I guess it's like a wellness program. They have this, this thing called Motion. And for me, it hooks into Fitbit and there's 3 dynamics to their program. So one is they want you to get, I don't remember what the time period is, but some amount, maybe it's 30 minutes of just, you know, consistent, sustained exercise, right? Then there's a 10,000 step component. But the piece… and both of those for me are like, are pretty automatic. But the one that I thought was really interesting is it's very clear to me that this is all pretty science-based and they've given a lot of thought to what they want because you can do all of your exercise in one burst and then just sit in front of a screen the other 23 hours of the day. And what have you really done? So their last dynamic is I think it's 500 steps, 6 times a day.

33:48 Angie Donato: Oh, interesting.

33:49 Scott Ingram: And naturally, that doesn't happen for me, right? Because I'm more what I just described, right? Like, I do a giant exercise block. It's not like there's a lack of exercise, but then there's not those breaks, right? And I can go, I can walk around my block and it takes 5 minutes. And so really thinking about how do you incorporate those more frequent kind of get away, exactly the things you're talking about, right? Like, we, we really need, for a whole variety of reasons, these little breaks for it to kind of break up our day and just give us that time away. And probably even better, I imagine there's a lot of additional benefits if you can find a way to do that outside as well.

34:27 Angie Donato: Right. And yeah, I agree. That's interesting that they've actually laid out those 3 steps. I haven't heard that before.

34:33 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So, I'm working on it. Angie, what, what does your information diet look like beyond the TikTok? What are you reading, listening to, and watching? And when does that happen?

34:44 Angie Donato: So when the pandemic hit and all the craziness in the world was happening, that's when I actually started looking for something to help focus on the positive, right? To be appreciative of the little things in life that we often forget and overlook. And that, that actually led me to a series of books by Neil Pasricha. I hope I'm saying that right. He did this whole series called the Awesome Series. And it's focused on navigating change and living an intentional life, right? They're really easy to read, easily memorable, and everyday practical. And so I started doing that and I typically would do those in the evening, kind of before bed, like half an hour before bed, I try to read. From a podcast perspective, I've been listening to On Purpose. And I guess probably on the sales side of it, I like Josh Braun. I like what he has to say. I think it's very practical. Advice. So, it's kind of a mix of both. And generally, those sorts of things, the podcast will happen often when I'm on one of my walks, and the books tend to be before bed.

35:42 Scott Ingram: Perfect. Perfect. And as always, we'll have links to all the books and all the podcasts and all this stuff. So, if you go to top1.fm/this episode number, which I have no idea what that'll be right now, or top1.fm/angie-donato, that will take you there. Angie, what about kind of the core tools and apps and kind of technology that you're using throughout your day?

36:03 Angie Donato: LinkedIn Sales Navigator, for sure. I use that quite frequently. I use Seeking Alpha a lot when I'm in my kind of preparation or research stage or just trying to understand what's going on at an organization. Those are probably the 2 biggest that I will use. I'm just trying to think of what else. Those are the first 2 that came to mind.

36:22 Scott Ingram: Well, they must be the 2 most important.

36:24 Angie Donato: They must be.

36:26 Scott Ingram: What about, do you subscribe to a particular sales philosophy?

36:30 Angie Donato: Oh, well, definitely Challenger, hands down. I mean, when I was at CEB, right, I was actually part of the Sales Leadership Council service, so working with chief sales officers, and that's when the Challenger Sales Book was released. So this was before it was part of the service, right, access to the work, the Teach, Tailor, Assert Control piece of it, right? And so I was lucky enough to be part of that. And I still, you know, now that it is certainly evolved and changed, and I think the work that the folks at Challenger are doing still to this day is really relevant.

37:02 Scott Ingram: Awesome. Now, how would you describe your style inside of that Challenger-centric approach?

37:08 Angie Donato: I guess my style, I think in general for all that I do, is really probably under-promise, over-deliver, right? It's like I'm never that kind of person who's promising the world or telling people on the phone that I can solve all their problems. I think it's much more around the more understated… I have more probably of an understated approach.

37:28 Scott Ingram: I like that. I like that. And I'm guessing part of that is, if I were to talk to you about just kind of honesty and transparency, I would imagine you're really just kind of, look, here's the reality in your conversations and with your clients.

37:42 Angie Donato: Absolutely. I think you have to be genuine. You have to be transparent. If you're not, I think people can spot that, right? I'm lucky enough that I work with really senior folks at big companies, and they don't have time for… no one has time for folks that are just going to be disingenuous. If I don't know the answer to something, I'm fine to say, you know what? I don't know, but let me find out for you. I don't ever pretend or put on any pretense that I do it, and it's core to what I do. To be quite honest, I actually, if I ever did, I wouldn't I'd have that feeling, you know that feeling you get in the knot in your stomach when you know something's not right? I would have that feeling and I don't ever want that feeling. And so, for me, it's so important. And that's part of anything that I do. You have to be upfront. You have to be straightforward and you have to be genuine.

38:32 Scott Ingram: That's excellent. So, you have very consistently had kind of this outsized performance. What motivates all of this for you? How do you think about motivation?

38:41 Angie Donato: So, for me, I think it's It's really at the core is I just enjoy problem solving. So anytime that I can help someone see an existing problem differently or identify one that they haven't thought of, that really motivates me. And every day is a little bit different because I just never know for sure what's going to happen on the other end of that conversation. So for me, it's that piece of just being able to solve problems for folks.

39:08 Scott Ingram: So something that's kind of striking me, and maybe I'll come back to another guest and drive some parallels here in a minute. But, you know, looking at your performance, it's probably on average, right, you're doing twice as much as a more kind of middle-of-the-road seller at Gartner. And it's not like you're working 70 or 80 hours a week, right? You're building in kind of time. And again, coming back to this intentionality kind of piece, how is that? Why is that?

39:35 Angie Donato: Well, I think a lot of it has to do with the idea that the preparation piece, right, where I'll spend more time there. I think it's really… I think people might lose sight of just understanding what the problem is that your client is facing, right? What is that problem? And they rush too much, too quickly to a solution that may not be the right solution. And I think people also… I think a big part of it is we all have timelines, right, that we need to meet, but I very much focus on what is the client's timeline. Like, what are the things that they need to do or achieve and work from that versus my timeline? Because if I continue to have this customer-centric approach versus an Angie-centric approach or whatever's best for, you know, I think that's the piece I think that is a little bit different for me maybe than what others are doing because I don't want to work 70, 80 hours a week.

40:25 Scott Ingram: Well, and you remind me a lot of Brandon Fluharty, who I've actually had on this show a couple of times, and he is, he'll actually be presenting at our summit in October, and his talk is titled 7 Steps to 7 Figures. And so much of what Brandon is about is, you know, really creating this space, like taking care of yourself, taking care of your mental health. And what I see as parallels for both of you is, you know, it isn't this, you know, all-out hustle kind of approach. It's much more about the thoughtfulness, right? It's the thoughtfulness around Let me make sure that I'm taking care of myself and my family so that I'm in optimal shape to serve my customers. And then when I'm with my customers, I'm with them, right? I've done the prep. I love your talking about the hypothesis, right? Like, I'm going to come with an idea and let's flesh that out. Let's see if we can validate that and make sure that I'm on the right track to put together the right solution. Because if the hypothesis was wrong, well, you're definitely pitching the wrong thing on the other end.

41:27 Angie Donato: Exactly, exactly. And I'm not always right, of course I'm not. And so that's… and that's okay though. And I think people are fine with you maybe not being right. And, you know, somebody said, well, Angie, you know what, that's actually not really right, it's more like this.

41:39 Scott Ingram: Yeah, right.

41:40 Angie Donato: But that's okay, right? Because at least they've known that I've put in some effort to try to understand. I may not be right, but they're much more open and willing to talk about it because at the end of the day, I don't want to them to, you know, buy something that isn't going to help solve their problem because then they're not going to be happy. They're not going to renew the service. They're not going to grow, right? And I'm not going to be happy because I'll have that like little pit in my stomach feeling, right, that I don't like. So I think you're, you know, you're absolutely right. It is much more about being thoughtful and intentional and being present.

42:09 Scott Ingram: Well, and I'm sure that you earn so much more trust with that approach, right? Because it becomes clear in that conversation like, oh, you really thought about this. And then I think it puts them in a position, even if you're wrong, to say, okay, clearly you care. Let me tell you what's really going on or how I'm perceiving the situation and the challenge that we're in.

42:28 Angie Donato: Exactly. That's exactly right.

42:30 Scott Ingram: So, is there something you believe that the average sales professional would think is crazy?

42:37 Angie Donato: Probably that I don't really think about the numbers. I know the numbers, right? But I don't think about them. I really trust that if I do the right things with a customer-centric lens, the results are going to follow. That's really, it's a big thing. I know a lot of people are always constantly talking about the next deal or the next client. I don't, I rarely do. I rarely do.

42:58 Scott Ingram: How does that apply to, so, I mean, you're a full-cycle seller. So, how are you holding yourself accountable and thinking about kind of the prospecting side and the outreach side of what you're doing?

43:08 Angie Donato: So, I think I think it's really about balancing it all. You can't only just focus on one aspect of it, like on the prospecting side of it or the outreach side of it. I try to make sure that I'm intentional about working every element of a sales cycle right from beginning to end all the time. I know some folks will focus on just one or the second or the third and then find like, well, when say they've got a new client, well, gosh, now they got to start all over again and find something else. For me, it's really about taking care and ensuring that There's always something going on. There's constantly… I have things going on in all areas of the sales cycle, and that's key for me.

43:46 Scott Ingram: How are you tracking that and thinking about that?

43:49 Angie Donato: So I think it's, you know, I have certainly my own kind of reporting and access to certainly things that Gartner has that help keep me on track, just from a logistics perspective. But it's part of that piece that I have that focus time. When I have that focus time every week, every month, it's looking forward and backward. Right? What have I done? What do I need to do? What are the next steps? And I try to hold myself accountable to doing that. And that's why that focus time for me, kind of at the start of the week, and I also will do it at the start of the month as well, right? It's like key kind of timeline milestones are, is really key for me to make sure that I'm just on track and I'm holding myself accountable.

44:30 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. So what about the flip side? Is there something that the average or typical sales professional believes that you think is crazy? Crazy?

44:39 Angie Donato: Probably that a good PowerPoint presentation is key in a decision to buy your product or service. I don't spend a whole ton of time building that or doing those sorts of things. Well, I'm sure it's certainly important. I mean, clearly a big part of almost any organization that I've worked with is, you know, delivering insight, which, which is key. But I don't spend a whole lot of time doing that. I think people buy from people, not from PowerPoint.

45:02 Scott Ingram: So I love this, but only because I'm totally biased. And if I never delivered or saw another PowerPoint slide again, I'd probably say. How often are you using presentations and slides in your process?

45:17 Angie Donato: I will definitely, like, I mean, I'm very challenger, right? I always try to lead with insight. So I will have, based on my hypothesis, based on what I know at the company, I will have some things prepared to share. I think that anytime anybody agrees to speak with you, you need to deliver some sort of value. It is not an opportunity for you to, you know, inquisition, right? Where you just sit and ask them a ton of questions. I think there's got to be a balance. So I always have something to share, but it may be where I just show 1 or 2 slides and have a discussion about it, right? And just really try to understand whether I'm exposing them to something maybe they haven't thought of before or something that they're working on, right? So it's much more of an anchor, if you will, to a conversation versus, you know, here, I'm going to go through this 15 slide deck during our conversation.

46:05 Scott Ingram: Yeah, I think maybe that's the bigger issue with PowerPoint, is it becomes a crutch, or you feel like, I have to get through this, which is probably not the most important thing or what the client wants to be subjected to.

46:19 Angie Donato: Exactly right. It's, it's not necessarily… I mean, there may be a time and a place for it, maybe further down the sales cycle where maybe you need to go more in depth. Maybe there's, you know, elements of it that you may need to do, but I think early on in any kind of conversation, I think one, you have to deliver value. You have to share something that's going to be focused on the problem, but then also it's an opportunity to kind of dig deeper to understand more, to ask the why questions to make sure that it's aligned because maybe it's not.

46:46 Scott Ingram: Yeah. You talked in the beginning, especially around kind of your early role where it was a great opportunity to learn kind of by doing, right? And I'm curious about just what some of those most pivotal decisions or learnings have been over the course of your career.

47:04 Angie Donato: I think the one we touched on is really about learning to be authentic, right? It's key. And some people just do it automatically, and some people have to work at it. I think for me, it was something that I just did and didn't know I was doing it, if that makes sense. But I think that's a big piece of it. And I touched on this with before, but a big part of it is don't be afraid to say you don't know the answer to a question, but make sure you follow through on getting the response, right? Those are big things I learned. And I think the other piece is there's a million things that can happen from the time that someone says, yes, I want to move forward and work with you, to actually getting things done and paperwork signed. And so I think a lot of it is just understanding what does their process look like? Where are areas that you could help them? Along the way. And during that time, I think where a lot of people fall off is like, great, someone said yes, they're going to move forward and kind of leave it there. I think for me, I've learned that during that time in particular, you have to continue to add value. You can't just stop. You kind of have to continue to make sure that you're adding value and reminding folks of why working with you is going to be a good thing for them.

48:13 Scott Ingram: That's so good. I mean, especially when you're selling to bigger organizations, because there can be quite quite some period of time between, you know, you, you got that verbal, right, the paperwork. So talk us through that just in a little bit more detail. Like, how are you continuing to add value? How are you working to understand their process and help them with their process and all of those kinds of elements?

48:32 Angie Donato: I'll ask and I'll kind of say, well, on our side, this is what it looks like on the process piece, but what is it for you? Do you maybe, you know, need to go to a legal or procurement, or are there signing, you know, pieces? And oftentimes I will use examples of other folks. I'll say, well, gosh, for a client that I worked with recently, this is how it was for them. Is it the same for you? Is it different? And just try to understand what those steps are. Some people might have to… I mean, I work with chief human resource officers, so generally there isn't… maybe they might need to have a quick conversation with the CEO, but sometimes they might need to build a business case. And so how can I help them do that? And just make sure that we've got the key milestones in place around when things need to get done. And then in between, right, I'm always, always around, okay, great. Well, you know, there's a paperwork side, there's legal and procurement perhaps that we need to deal with. But for the two of us, like myself and the Chief Human Resources, or maybe members of their teams, like, let's start moving things along. How can I be helpful, right? And continue to like make sure that I'm providing them with value on the things that they need to make progress on. So the more, you know, near-term priorities as well as longer-term. So that could be anything from like continuing to deliver insight, or oftentimes it's, you know, hey, I thought of you yesterday because I was working on this and thought this might be helpful given this initiative, right? And just continuing to ensure that, that they have things that are going to help them, as I say, kind of focus on solving that problem.

49:56 Scott Ingram: Yeah, yeah. And again, keeping that type of conversation going is so much better and so much easier And so much more likely to prevent the going dark when all you do is like, hey, I'm just checking in.

50:08 Angie Donato: Yes, yes, checking in. Hey, what's going on, right? Hi, it's just me. Definitely.

50:15 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And before I forget to ask, I guess we're kind of majorly switching gears here, but I wanted to talk about kind of your experience and your involvement with TPC.

50:24 Angie Donato: It's been great. I was… been, you know, lucky enough to work with Steve and be a founding member of that group. For me, it was like a niche opportunity, right? Because everybody in the organization is a top performer. Some of them are individual contributors, some of them are in management, and just being able to kind of get outside your world, right? And listen and learn to their unique experiences and how they stay as top achievers and the different things that go on for them in their organization has been invaluable. It's a great group.

50:56 Scott Ingram: Awesome. Love to hear that. Love to hear that. And then I know you're also doing a lot of mentoring and a lot of coaching. What advice do you typically give to folks that are just starting out in their sales careers?

51:08 Angie Donato: Oh gosh. So, I think for me, I just try to tell them to not get overwhelmed because that's an easy thing to do. And to really… I tell them also, if they're in sales careers, because some of the folks I mentor aren't necessarily in sales, but I'll tell them not to focus on the numbers because the numbers will come and to really work on focusing on understanding problems that people might have and potential, you know, ones that they know they have and maybe seeing them in a different light and also, you know, exposing them to things that they don't already know. So it's really about, and I know it's like a broken record here, but it really is about intentionality and also for asking for help, right? Then to not be afraid. I know especially early career folks, they tend to be afraid to ask people people for help. They don't want to look stupid or they don't want to think they're being silly. And I always will say to them that, I know it's cliché, but there isn't such thing as a stupid question. I would rather you ask now rather than going forward and going down the wrong path, which is going to just cause you to take a lot of time and take you on a path that you don't want to be on.

52:11 Scott Ingram: Now, what about somebody that is further into their career and they're good, they're doing okay, but they haven't found kind of that next level? What's your advice for them?

52:22 Angie Donato: Probably, I think, for a few of those folks, I've asked them to just really do a kind of internal audit, if you will, of their customer interactions, and ask themselves and be honest around, you know, are you being client-centric? Or are you being your product or service-centric? Right? Are you listening more than you're talking? And if you aren't, you know, and then what I say to them is try to shift the focus a little bit and see if that will change the outcome. So start small and simple. If you are talking more than you're listening, well, try to shift that a little bit. Try to make sure that, you know, you're pausing in conversations or you're asking just, well, why? Or tell me more about that. That's going to help. I think if you're able to do that and just incrementally, I'm not I'm not suggesting that you make a whole bunch of changes overnight, but just incrementally making small shifts in the way you approach your client interactions, I think, will change some of the outcomes.

53:22 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Great, great stuff. I usually ask this question just from the perspective of, I'm thinking about this community and the types of things that I'm asking folks that I'm interviewing. But for you, I'm sure you've had a lot of these conversations as you engage inside of the Top Percentile Collective. What do you tend to be the most curious about? What are you trying to learn from other top performers?

53:46 Angie Donato: You know what? I really love people's stories, how they got to where they are, what are the things that keep them motivated to be at the top. I mean, those are the things that I'm most curious about. And really just, it's fascinating. Some of the conversations that we have are just really, it could be really high-level strategic pieces, but then also, you know, sometimes it's small and sometimes it's even things like, like balancing work-life, right? How does that look in an environment where you're, you know, overachieving and you're constantly asked to do more? And so those are the pieces. It's really, for me, it's all about the people stories.

54:21 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Well, that's a lot of what we do here. I wonder if there's a part of your story that is important that maybe we just haven't talked about yet.

54:31 Angie Donato: Oh gosh, I don't know. I don't know if there is. I mean, I think there's just so many things, right? I mean, I feel lucky, right? I've had opportunity to work in different size organizations, different selling models, right? But from like product to, you know, consulting to, you know, subscription-based. And so I've had a lot of different experiences that I think all got me to where I am. And then also will kind of be like the what's next of it, right? Where am I going to go from here?

55:03 Scott Ingram: So Angie, we have covered a lot of ground. I have really, really enjoyed this conversation a lot. You've given me some things to think about and to work on. I always try and wrap these episodes up and give the listener something really actionable that they can do to improve themselves and improve their results. What would you challenge our listener to do over the course of the next week or 2 to work on themselves?

55:27 Angie Donato: I really think it's simple in that they need to look at how much time they're talking in conversations versus listening.

55:33 Scott Ingram: Angie, that is perfect. Such an easy challenge, but one that will make a huge, huge impact. Thank you so much for your time. And sharing your story with us.

55:41 Angie Donato: Thank you, Scott. This has been a lot of fun.

55:44 Scott Ingram: Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast. To be sure you never miss an episode and for an invitation to our Sales Success Community powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter at top1.fm.