118: Jheryn Kenney: From Pink Cadillac to #1 at LinkedIn Sales Solutions

0:00 Scott Ingram: This episode is brought to you by the Sales Success Summit and our 2021 sponsors for that event so far, Proposify, Outreach, and Gong. To learn more about them and the event, just click over to top1summit.com, where you'll have the opportunity to meet today's guest.

0:26 Scott Ingram: You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve. To learn more, visit us at top1.fm.

0:38 Scott Ingram: Here's your host, Scott Ingram. Today on the Sales Success Stories podcast, my guest is Jheryn Kenney. Jheryn is an Enterprise Relationship Manager with LinkedIn Sales Solutions and is also a Global Partnership Lead for LinkedIn's Diversity, Inclusion, and Belongings effort. Welcome to the show, Jheryn.

0:56 Jheryn Kenney: Thank you so much for having me, Scott.

0:58 Scott Ingram: I am so excited about this, to dig into all of these. Things, but we always start this show with some immediate value. And I would love to hear from you what you believe are the top 3 things that have made the biggest difference in your path to success.

1:14 Jheryn Kenney: Yeah, that's such a good question because I think we often just move so fast that we don't really kind of just take time to hone in on what it is that's making a difference. I will say the first is that I'm a real human being, and I believe that everybody else in the world is a real human being. So often we get these reputations in sales of being sleazy and super pushy or phony. And I am just not, I am a real person. And I just know that no matter what level the stakeholder may be in, but they're, they have life worries, stressors. They have, you know, children who break the rules and, and, and challenge them or embarrass them in the store. They've been, you know, heartbroken, just everything about them is also a human and they also have a job to do. So that's one thing, just being a human. 2 is I have a strength. Some people call it a superpower of discovering and/or developing mobilizers. So I think it's easy to get caught off or kind of maybe feel like you're chasing the rabbit when people say the right things or give you buying signals. But really what I've seen, what's helped me succeed is just knowing who is actually going to get this done. Or who's going to be my partner and getting this done. I think a big part of that comes from understanding people, caring about people, but also understanding them and helping them to win. The third thing I would add is I have this deep-seated expectation of excellence from myself and the people around me. And when I say the people around me, it's more so of a belief in their excellence. And so I think that winning is an awesome output of being excellent. And that's whether that's me as an individual contributor to a particular deal, or if that's a team working together to do something amazing. But having that fierce belief that excellence is a requirement, it goes a long, long way. And some people call that grit, but it goes a long way. You could say both.

3:19 Scott Ingram: I love that. To me, that sounds a little bit different than grit. It sounds more like just, I don't know, like trust, like you know, giving people the benefit of the doubt and kind of setting expectations high and allowing them the opportunity to deliver. I mean, is that fair?

3:32 Jheryn Kenney: Yeah, I like that. Yeah, that's a good way to say it. It's fair.

3:35 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So, I want to go back just the human thing, because we started this before we hit the record button talking about kind of speed driving the humanity just, and maybe not overthinking things. Can you, can you talk more about that?

3:48 Jheryn Kenney: Yeah. Well, I just, I think it goes all the way back to like, 15 years ago, I was a pharmaceutical rep for, I won't name the company, but a big pharma company. And I was right out of college. And I remember one of the doctors that I was calling on, we went to lunch one day unexpectedly, just she and I. And literally while we're at lunch, she starts crying. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm 22. I'm right out of college. You know, this big fancy job. And the doctor who's one of my big targets, 'cause she's so successful, starts crying at lunch. And it's just the two of us. And What I realized in that moment, which I already knew, but what was confirmed in that moment is that she, like all of us, is a human. And she went on to tell me to confide in me about, you know, her boyfriend and all these things that had happened. And, you know, again, we're human beings and no matter what title we have or what career we've pursued or how far we've gone up a ladder, there's nothing that can change our humanity.

4:47 Scott Ingram: I love it. I love it. I'm grinning like an idiot over here because it's so true, right? We put people on strange pedestals and do things in our own heads. But you're right. At the end of the day, what really resonated with me is just like you, my kids don't listen either.

5:02 Jheryn Kenney: Exactly. Exactly. We're all in this thing together. Real bosses.

5:08 Scott Ingram: I can't sell them on very many things. It's pretty wild. Me either.

5:12 Jheryn Kenney: My kids, my husband, I can sell everybody except for them. Not those 3.

5:16 Scott Ingram: Funny. Too funny. Not speaking of which, but I also want to come back to just this mobilizer idea. And I'm curious about maybe the initial identification. Like, how do you think about who you're going to partner and collaborate with, and then maybe we can talk about how you're doing it.

5:33 Jheryn Kenney: Yeah. So one thing about me is that I don't have a lot of absolutes, but generally the way I approach it is by looking to understand who has something to gain for us getting this deal won. Who's going to look good if it gets done, who might be on a fast track at work For example. So them owning something that's meaningful to the company could be a win for them. Oftentimes I might look for the blockers. Blockers oftentimes turn into great mobilizers because they're blocking for a reason. I don't believe at all that people would just wake up to, to try to prevent me from being successful. So if they're blocking, there's a reason for that. And so that's a big part of it. Like, who, who stands to win as a result of this win? Who can be a partner here? Who has They may not be the highest ranking, but who has some influence and also who has the will and the drive, because you could, you could have influence without caring enough to push and get something done. You know, I need somebody who cares. I need somebody who could share this energy with me about how much this is going to mean to your organization when we get it done. Like, that's the kind of partner that I want, but not just someone who talks a lot and who's happy and excited, but someone who also has the muscle to push and get things done.

6:50 Scott Ingram: Oh, so good. So good. So now let's talk about how are you doing that? And I'm most interested in how are you, how are you converting the blockers? How are you taking somebody who initially was kind of against what you were bringing to the table and turning them around and turning them into a champion?

7:05 Jheryn Kenney: Yeah, I have to think specifically about one. Like, I'll go back a little bit. When I first started at LinkedIn, I took over an account and this woman I was, I think I came in hot. I was excited, like, woo. And I guess she thought I was some sort of cheerleader, just way too excited. And that wasn't a match for her working style. And she went on to tell me that she had had 13 different, you know, account managers or whatever the case may be. And when she replied in the email to the former relationship manager, she said no with like 10 zeros. So to me, I'm guilty when you can, you know, when you think of someone who's overly optimistic, guilty all day long. But so I thought she was kidding. When she said it like that. Like, how could you possibly be so opposed to me taking over? And so I said something kind of just brushing it off saying, yeah, the former rep's amazing. It's hard to see her go too. And then I carried on with the conversation, but she was serious about not having a new person. I didn't realize at the time that there had been so many, but she escalated the conversation all the way up to our VP. Well, she tried to get to the VP. She ended up with the senior director, but it was crazy. And so she was a big obstacle that she was a blocker there. She was a blocker in a number of ways. So she was a blocker there. So I guess I turned her around before she even became a blocker with our proposal. Because from there, I think LinkedIn has helped me, not because I worked there, but when, because of LinkedIn, people can see the breadth of your work. Like I'm not new to this. I look 22 sometimes in my head, but I'm not new to this. And while she and I are very different in a number of ways, I'm good at what I do and I have a lot to offer her. And she realized that she could learn from me. And so that was part of it, but also me just backing way down in the conversation and being very humble in that, you know, telling her like, I literally went way too fast here. My bad on that. I literally thought she was joking, but now I get it. So being humble enough to own that. But then as we moved forward and she was blocking the deal, taking time with her. I'm a fan of one-on-one calls, not because I believe in selling deals or selling, you know, getting a deal done one by one. But if there's conversation where you need somebody to also be vulnerable or to be very, very honest with you or tell you what they're not saying, that generally happens better one-on-one. And so, you know, pitching that conversation, I didn't say, hey, let's have a one-on-one and a heart-to-heart, but you know, I called out like, hey, clearly you have a lot of pull here. And I'd love to just kind of understand more, not even so much like what I need to do to get this done. But I need to understand what's really happening. And what's, you know, and like, what's going on that I'm not seeing? Can you help me, you know, better understand, like, you know, what's the deal? And so bringing it way down to just a basic conversation, like, you know, what the hell's happening? And you have a lot to do with this. And I know, And also I think affirming her that she's a champion for this company. She not only believes in it, but she is clearly influential, but cares about what's happening with her company. So I wasn't so much focusing on her position or her pull, but calling out how much I could tell she cares. So just trying to really get human to human. In this case, she was a woman. So woman to woman behind the curtain a bit.

10:33 Scott Ingram: That's brilliant.

10:34 Jheryn Kenney: And I've done that a few times and it's, it's worked well.

10:36 Scott Ingram: And I love that you answered the question I was going to ask, which is how do you get to that conversation? Right. And how do you… I think what I heard you say is it's kind of, it's acknowledging them. It's getting vulnerable yourself. Right. And just saying, hey, like, I'm just… it's the interest in them, not the interest in the deal to drive that conversation. Right.

10:57 Jheryn Kenney: Yes.

10:58 Scott Ingram: So, why don't we contextualize this a little bit? Why don't you tell us about your role and how you got to the top at LinkedIn?

11:05 Jheryn Kenney: Yeah. So, it's exciting. I am an enterprise relationship manager for our sales solutions business. And we have, I mean, in my role, my job is to take existing customers and grow them. So to find the full potential and what we call own the sales org, meaning they've said yes to the Sales Navigator platform as an instrument that they're going to use, but it could be that they said yes to as few as 10 people. And my job is to go get all the rest of the people. So there could be another 1,000+ salespeople in the organization who could benefit from Sales Navigator. So my job is to go get the rest. And oftentimes I have to level up the conversation to someone who can make an enterprise-level decision. You know, it's easy to say yes for my team of 10, but now I've got to go get some… the person who can say yes to the 1,000 or more sellers who are out there. So, I love, love, love what I do. I won't get on that because that's not why I'm here, but I do love it. I do love it.

12:03 Scott Ingram: And I'm also really interested in… I've not even seen this term before. I saw it on your, of course, LinkedIn profile, this, this idea of diversity, inclusion, and belonging. Talk about what does that mean?

12:14 Jheryn Kenney: So I can certainly get into that because it's big at LinkedIn. And I realized I didn't even answer your other question about how I got to the top at LinkedIn. So right now, I was surprised actually to finish our last half at 150% to goal. I wasn't surprised by that, but I was surprised that I finished number 1, really just because there's so many good and talented people, so many like just genuinely good people who care a lot. And I see how far that goes. So it was exciting for me. I think it's all that I mentioned before, being human with with my customers, finding mobilizers, helping them win, less focused on a deal getting done, but really focused on the impact, but not in a salesy way. Like, I really think that salespeople are cheesy. And that probably sounds crazy coming from somebody who's been in sales for 20 years. I really, really do. Like, it's… I'm so turned off by salesy salespeople. And I find myself having to stop myself from like correcting people or calling out what they did wrong when they're trying to sell me on something. 'Cause I'm pretty easy to sell. Like, and I wanna buy, I wanna support, people, but like, I get annoyed when people do like that cliché salesy stuff. So I think not doing that, finding the mobilizers, finding where the business is, because there's a lot out there. So finding the big wins, nothing really magical though, nothing really magical, but really just focusing on customers and also knowing my worth. And I don't mean me as an individual, but knowing my company's worth. And so it's become a bit more competitive than it once was. But I thrive on that. I'm totally okay with it. But I also don't take for granted. I think it's easy when you work in a space or you're familiar with a space, it's easy to forget how powerful what it is that you're bringing to the table is and like how meaningful the difference can be to that company, to that, to that team, whatever it might be. But I think we get shy. Like, I feel like we're like extreme as salespeople. We're either crazy aggressive and like cheesy, or we're like super afraid and bashful. You know, there is a place in between there. And I think that's the most authentic and genuine place. Like, if it's true, it's not drinking the Kool-Aid. You know what I mean? If it's true that this is going to be the impact to your company, then it's true. Don't back down from that. And when people challenge you, even like the one who I'm talking… who I was talking about earlier, the mobilizer, she tried to back down a little bit and I called him out. On, you know, I challenged her on what I know to be true and the difference that we can make. Anyway, so that's it. You can tell I get excited about it. But to your other question about diversity, inclusion, and belonging, so it's the same like other industries. I find that they use the term diversity, equity, and inclusion a lot, but either way, it's the same. It's where those within the workspace are creating an environment where everyone can thrive, everyone can feel included, everyone has you know, a space where they just can be themselves and thrive. And so it's not like, okay, we need a Black person at the table, because if you can't see a picture, I am a Black woman. But it's that I can be my whole self in this space, you know? And LinkedIn is very keen to make sure that it's not just recognizing differences, it's that, you know what, we want you as you are, um, and all of that, all that comes with that, and making it a safe space at work. Which has historically not been common. It's increasingly so, but I just love that. I love it because there's extra, there's extra pressure and stress with trying to be someone that you're not, trying to fit into a space if everyone is a certain way and you're not. And those are just not things I have to do. I don't try to fit in anywhere. I am who I am. I bring all of that to work and they love me and I love them, each of them in all their differences.

16:01 Scott Ingram: Love it. Love it. One of the things that I love about our sponsors is how much they lean into this type of inclusion. LinkedIn does a great job of it. I've also mentioned it before in talking about outreach, but Gong is all about this as well. Just look at the diversity of voices and perspectives represented in their team that's all over LinkedIn. I think there's a strong correlation between that and the fact that they're a unicorn valued at over $2 billion. Check them out. The solution is incredible. top1.fm/gong. And now back to Jheryn. So, what is the global partnership lead portion of that? What all are you doing in that capacity? Yeah.

16:42 Jheryn Kenney: So, there's a number of organizations that exist specifically to, whether it's developing talent from underrepresented groups, whether it's finding them, it's networking, it's development, et cetera. And so, my job is to work with a team to help identify those organizations external to LinkedIn that could be a valuable partner. And when I say that, it's really with helping to source talent. It's with helping to… I would say mostly it's sourcing talent from underrepresented groups, but it's also finding the right organizations with whom we can do that. Because there's a lot of, you know, I feel like people have time on their hands right now because of COVID So a lot of things are popping up, but there are organizations that have done a lot of work and who produce quality. And so just finding out who those organizations are, building relationships with them, and creating some sort of partnership. They're always different. It could be an informal partnership, but some sort of relationship where we can be mutually beneficial to one another.

17:44 Scott Ingram: Love that. Can I ask what some of those organizations might be? Maybe there's others who are listening who should get involved.

17:49 Jheryn Kenney: Yeah, absolutely. One is Black Professionals in Tech Network. Another is AfroTech, and there is Black Enterprise Women of Power. So those are 3. The one I'm working on right now is one called Sistas in Sales, where actually one of a girlfriend of mine. We became girlfriends because I was this one of the speakers at her inaugural event. She founded that group not that long ago, but another that's near and dear to my heart is called the National Sales Network. I actually used to be the president of that organization for the New York and New Jersey chapter for many, many years. And that one's particularly near and dear to my heart because it is not tech heavy, meaning most of the people who are part of that organization come from other industries. And what we find when we're looking at diversity, inclusion, and belonging is that it's difficult to make that transition from… it's, let me correction, it's difficult to break in. Like if you're not in tech, it's hard to get into tech. But just because you're not already in tech doesn't mean that you don't have transferable skills or something to offer. And I'll say, Scott, that's part of what's driven me because I came from prior to LinkedIn, I was in industrial sales for Grainger, totally different. Granted, I had a large enterprise customer base, Amazon was my customer, but it's important, particularly if you're going to expand diversity within tech companies, that you don't just pull from people who are already in tech, you know? And that was part of what drove me to succeed. I mean, I'm always driven to succeed, but like over and over and over again, like it's personal to succeed in a big, huge way so that anybody who doesn't believe that, okay, this might've been their path, but they could like rock this thing. Like they could be incredibly successful if given the opportunity. So. It means a lot.

19:33 Scott Ingram: Fantastic. I want to name some names here because there's some, there's some important people that are related to some of these things. So you didn't, you didn't name Chantel George, who's the founder of Sistas in Sales. And she has, it's so funny. I was talking with Jacob Gebrewald about her. She is maybe the most effective, I don't know, mentor is what I will call her, that she's been to me, like pound for pound or minute for minute that I've ever seen. Like I've only had maybe one very short conversation with her. And it was like life-changing.

20:07 Jheryn Kenney: That's amazing.

20:08 Scott Ingram: Yeah, it didn't take very much time. She just like is straight to it, like, bam, you need to think about this. You're thinking about this wrong. And I was like, oh my God, you are so right. This is great.

20:17 Jheryn Kenney: Yeah, she's so right and she's so good. Love, love, love her. So happy we met.

20:21 Scott Ingram: Greatness. Greatness. And then I'm sure you've crossed paths with Eddie Baez, who's a part of NSN and a big part of this community. So absolutely excellent. Well, let's continue along this. You've given us a couple of tastes of your origin story. There was some medical device sales and some industrial sales. Like, how did you get into sales in the first place? And walk us through kind of your journey.

20:41 Jheryn Kenney: I mean, I was born into it, literally. Both my parents had journeys in sales. My mother actually currently is a vice president of sales and business development with the company. She's actually moving towards another position as she rounds out her last couple of years before retirement. But You know, she's done that forever. My father just retired after 45 years with 2 companies where he moved into sales leadership positions as well. But he also spent a lot of time as an individual contributor because he liked to… well, actually, it's not that he spent a lot of time there. It's that he went back to the individual contributor role for the last 12 years, I think, that he was working. I think the way that I was raised for like, it's not that I was raised as a salesperson, but I think that to be a successful salesperson, you have to care about people. You have to be curious about people and interested in people. And like, our regular conversations are that way. So that's part of it. I also sold Girl Scout cookies and, you know, got my start, you know, early, early. But then when I was in college, my mom actually, it's funny, I'm writing, I'm co-writing a book right now and this is a part of it. But my mom started a business. She started selling Mary Kay cosmetics, like the Pink Cadillac cosmetics on the side. And she signed me and my twin sister up without our permission or knowledge. But she signed us up, got us a little, you know, a little something to start with. And it could not have been a better experience for… it was an internship that I got paid for, literally paid my way through college selling Mary Kay. And I can't tell you how much I learned about people at 18, 19, 20 years old. I was not only selling, but leading, building an organization. I ended up with over 1,100 women as a part of my organization. And they were anywhere from 18-year-old students like me to like one woman was like 82. There were like corporate executives and VPs included. And it was just like, when you start to understand people and not decide for them who they are or what they want, et cetera, then that's when you really start to connect with people and be able to move people. So that's how I got my start. Fast forward, I spent a bunch of time in pharma and biotech. I mentioned Grainger, my experience there, but leading the national sales network is how I got to tech because I created a partnership with LinkedIn, understanding that it was important to them to increase, like it is with all tech companies, to increase diversity within their talent. And my former boss saw me leading this show or this event. He was just somebody in the audience. I had no idea who he was, but I guess he liked the way I engaged him, particularly not knowing who he was. And the rest is history. He recruited me and I played a little hard to get because I was working on a promotion, but this was, it was absolutely the best decision ever.

23:30 Scott Ingram: That's amazing. That's amazing. So, you know, after this 20-year career, a whole lot of different experiences in different industries, if you were either starting over today, knowing what you know now, or could go back and talk to yourself at the beginning, is there anything you would have done differently from a career perspective?

23:47 Jheryn Kenney: Yeah, sometimes I think that I should have started in one place and stayed there. So let me, again, sometimes I think that because if, when you look around, you know, sometimes I see people who are the same age as me who've ascended to higher roles. And let's say they may have only been at like 1 or 2 companies during that time. So I think it's, it's probably reasonable to think that. But then on the flip side, I can't imagine having better preparation for where I am now and for where I'm going to have the broadness of experience that I do. And so I think if I had to change something, I would say like, it's okay. Like, be, be who you are. And like, don't try to be anybody else, but keep learning. Like when you keep, when you're humble enough to recognize, I don't know, you know, everything, and I don't know enough for, you know, for whatever it is that you might be trying to work towards, be a student. Like knowledge is free, you know? So be a student constantly learning. And cause it's okay that you don't know the answers, but find out and get better all the time. Invest in yourself. I think it'll make a difference in your, in your journey.

24:55 Scott Ingram: Love it. Love it. And you mentioned where you're going. I know LinkedIn is just a culture is like so supportive of that. Where is that? Where are you headed?

25:02 Jheryn Kenney: Oh my gosh. You're gonna make me say it out loud. So I recently told my director that I am interested in moving over into a people leadership role because I love a team win. Like I love my own winning, but I really, really, when I think back over my career, the times that I've enjoyed the most is when there's a collaborative or team win. And when I've been able to do the most like meaningful, like big kind of like, how do I want to say, when I've been able to make, I don't know, the most impressive moves, I guess is the way to say it. But like, I've moved entire groups of people, like hundreds of people, you know, towards a goal. In one case, there was over 1,000 people towards a goal. And to do that at such an early age, I don't want to take for granted that, you know, it's just part of the journey. It is, but it's also something that I'm skilled at and that I enjoy. I think the success came from genuinely enjoying and caring about their success. And so while I don't have to be perfect in this role, because I think sometimes I do, I battle with putting pressure on myself to be so perfect at, you know, the role. I don't think that's necessary because I'm also humble enough to know that, okay, even if I am leading this team, I don't have to have all the answers. I think it's a disservice to people to give them all the answers. So But moving into a people leadership role as well as ultimately an organizational leadership role.

26:22 Scott Ingram: Love it. Love it. While I'm not perfect in my role, one thing that certainly made me better recently is the way I've been able to improve my own proposal process with Proposify. You've got to check out the brand new landing page they've set up for listeners of this show. You'll find that by clicking over to top1.fm/proposify, and you may want to check back there a few times this month. They've got some big secret news on the horizon, and it's gonna help you even more. You'll see top1.fm/proposify. And now back to my conversation with Jaren. Well, I can tell that you're a storyteller. We've already gotten a couple, and of course the show is called Sales Success Stories. So what's your favorite sales story?

27:06 Jheryn Kenney: Gosh, now I, now I stumble. I think, do you mean from my personal journey?

27:13 Scott Ingram: Yeah.

27:14 Jheryn Kenney: Gosh, you know, I think I'd have to say winning the pink Cadillac and Mary Kay all those years ago. Like, hands down, my favorite success story is winning the pink Cadillac because it might seem so cliché, particularly for people like in the Northeast or people where it's… where it's… there's less familiarity with direct sales and with Mary Kay. But the beauty in that was that you know, the beauty and the challenge is that you start at zero every single day, every single month. So as a sales director within that business, you have quarterly… I'm sorry, you have monthly goals that you have to hit. And every month you start at zero. So you have this high and excitement forever you finish the prior month, but then literally you dread, you know, the first of the month when you wake up because the number on the ticker says zero again. And so to be able to do that, I'll put it into context or contextualize it a bit. So back then, the requirement was that you were to sell just under $17,000 in cosmetics per month. And that may or may not seem like a lot, but if you think about the fact that lipsticks cost $13, you know, and the skincare sets could be anywhere from $50 to like $150, like to do $17,000 a month over and over and over and over again, was not easy to do. Like literally the top fraction of a percent of the people within that business were able to lead their teams to do that. And for me, the story was that, you know what, we're all different here. We all have something different to gain, something different to contribute. But what we know is that this win is going to be huge. This win is going to be, it's something that breaks belief barriers. Like when you, that business is so different than a corporate business, but it's still selling. You know, you still have to like, you know, turn product, you know, in that case and drive revenue, but to do that by like working together and just everybody pitching in and helping each other and just seeing like the pride in the women's faces, because every single person had a part of it. And it's not at all something I could do alone. And they knew that. And so just feeling proud because you go prance across stage and all that, all the units that were like, quote unquote, Cadillac units got to go and prance across the stage at our big conferences. So it was just nice because again, it wasn't just me. And I love the story because it ended with a win for all of those women. And it felt good.

29:44 Scott Ingram: I love it. I love it. What's the hardest part? What do you find to be the most challenging part of all of this?

29:49 Jheryn Kenney: That's a good question. I think the hardest part of this is probably… I'll give you 2 answers. One is simple and surface level. I'll say time management, but that is a real thing. So time management, but I'll And also I would say, because I have a full life, like I do a lot even outside of my job, like a lot. And my husband holds elected office. I lead a cycling club. I just got actually sworn in, if you will, as a trustee for, on our governor's board of, what does it call it? Governor's Reentry, where I do work to help people where I actually, I'm going to now be advising the state on work that helps people who've had challenged backgrounds to get back into the workforce and find gainful employment. And I think just understanding kind of like, you know, that your employment matters for like your whole life. It matters for the trajectory of your life and your children. So just doing so much, really finding the right balance of how to spend my time is a hard part. But I would add to that, that I still to this day get nervous when I'm having conversations with very senior leaders, because You know what, I shouldn't have said because, because I'm still working through that. And I don't have the exact answer as of yet, but I do sometimes feel like I'm on a stage, which I hate 'cause it makes you feel phony. But like with this Zoom culture, you kind of are on a stage. So they're looking at you and you're looking at them, you know, and it's possible that they all look different than you, but at the end of the day, and they all have these, you know, high positions, but at the end of the day, I learned when I was in Mary Kay at 18 years old, but I also learned when I started in the pharmaceutical industry working for Pfizer at 22 years old, That sure, this doctor in that case might be 3 times my age and have studied medicine longer than I've been living. But what I am is still a resource in a particular area, you know, and what I am is still able to help you with what I know is important to you. So, you know, I think just being mindful about all of that and thinking about it the right way consistently.

31:54 Scott Ingram: Excellent. Now I have to ask about the cycling club. What's that?

31:57 Jheryn Kenney: Yes, I freaking love it. So my husband actually started it because it's COVID, we need to exercise, we still want to be social, and we had these bikes from a few years ago and we just started doing it and people started joining us and we were having fun and it just grew and grew and grew. And so I've done not a spin-off but like an arm, I guess, of the group. It's the women's side of it. We did our third women's ride last night. We call it WOW Wednesdays. WOW stands for Women on Wheels. And I can't tell you, like the first day we did it, there were 2 of us and a 3rd who showed up just for the photo op. The next week there were 7 and last night there were like 45. And I've gotten a call. I just got a call before this, you know, from somebody else asking, can they be a part of it? I'm like, sure, just come on. And so it's actually a really, really good time. And it's interesting because there's a lot of people who do really important work and they're busy with their lives. But I think cycling is a way Not only to stay healthy, but to enjoy, you know, our beautiful city and appreciate it, but also have good company that's safe at the same time.

33:03 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. Now, what kind of cycling is this? Is this like more casual cycling? Is this road cycling? What, what is this?

33:09 Jheryn Kenney: Oh, we're legit with it, Scott. It's road cycling. And so while we're not super duper competitive, you know, we've invested in the bikes and the gear and all that. And we do go on real rides, like some of the rides Some of the members have done what we call a century, which is 100 miles in one sitting. Some, sometimes we keep them shorter, but no, we put some time in and we get out on the roads and it's challenging because I live in Northern New Jersey where it's an urban area where I live. And so if you're on the street, there's also cars, you know, and lights and all that to contend with. But, you know, we have a good time with it and we find different routes. My husband does a good job of finding really creative routes for each ride. So, but it, but it's really been fun and it keeps us busy, but in shape. And feeling good.

33:53 Scott Ingram: Very nice. Are you on Strava?

33:54 Jheryn Kenney: Would you believe I'm the silly one who… everybody else is on Strava except for me. And I'll tell you why. I have to track enough during the day. Like, I have enough goals already. Because they laugh at me for not being on Strava. I'm like, you guys do that. And I'm happy for you. I do track my Peloton rides though. Those I track. But I don't track… I don't track Strava right now. Or I don't use it like everybody else. I should.

34:16 Scott Ingram: There you go. I don't know that I've ever shared this like publicly. This was something we started at the Sales Success Summit last year. But if you go to top1.fm/ There is a Sales Success Club, and I am… I'm an indoor cyclist. I am almost exclusively on the Peloton these days. Oh, right! I've… I've been told. Have you ever heard the acronym mammal? I've… I've been told I'm a mammal.

34:39 Jheryn Kenney: What do you mean? I don't know.

34:41 Scott Ingram: I'm a middle-aged man in Lycra.

34:43 Jheryn Kenney: That is hilarious. That's all right, Scott. There's worse things to be.

34:54 Scott Ingram: So I had, I had to ask. I love cycling, even though I do it socially all by myself in my upstairs room at 5 in the morning, 6 days a week.

35:03 Jheryn Kenney: So nice. I love it.

35:05 Scott Ingram: Absolutely. All right. So let's, let me try and get us back on track a little bit. Talk us through. So you, you talked about productivity and you've got a lot on your plate. What is your, how do you structure your day? And then the way I like to ask this question is your alarm goes off. Off. Tell me what time that happened, and I want like the blow-by-blow until your head hits the pillow. How are you putting all this all together?

35:27 Jheryn Kenney: So we'll talk about today, actually. So the alarm goes off… actually, this morning I got up at 5:30, which I'm probably going to start to need, like, start needing to do on a regular because I have small children, 3 and 6, and they own me. They own my time. Oh my gosh. So this morning I worked. I got up specifically to get some work done between 5:30 and 7 AM. The children interrupted… didn't interrupt me. They woke up and came into the room where I was at 6:45. So it got cut a little short, but then I do my mommy thing. That's actually… my husband did breakfast first because my 3-year-old decided he wanted breakfast first. So that's what we do, whatever they ask for, then got them bathed and out the door. So I dropped them both off at different schools in different towns. I come back home maybe about 8:40 or so. From there, I start my day and try to have some quiet time in the car on the way home so that I'm thinking and I'm I'm not a basket case when I start the day because of the race every morning, but you know, I do my work. So whatever the, whatever's going on in the work, in my workday, there could be meetings. I try not to schedule meetings first thing in the morning. Like I have a block on my calendar from 9 to 10:00 AM every day, and it's called focus time. So I do not schedule meetings at that time of day. And if I accept the meeting, it's gotta be a good one just because I need a minute to like get things in order and show up how I want to show up. Meaning it might be preparing, it might be researching something, whatever it is, but I like to own my own time. And so rather than giving it away to anyone who asks for it, I try to use that 9 to 10 time slot to really just focus so that the rest of the time is spent as well as it can be. And then my meetings are usually like between 11 to 2 or 3-ish, depending on what they are. I try to do less internal, more external meetings because that's what's going to drive results. Staying focused on our goals, like staying focused on the goal. I do a lot. I've actually… I'm trying to I try to now allow time between the meetings. So not being back to back as much, but having 15 minutes. So doing a 45-minute meeting instead of 60 or a 20-minute meeting instead of 30. And then just, yeah, everything, all the follow-up that has to happen, I'm doing better with like doing it right now. You would think after all this time, I'd be masterful at that. I'm not. It still can pile up. So just getting that out of the way in real time and just prioritizing what's important or what's the most important. And then from there, usually my husband will pick up the children and then it's showtime. After that, we've got cycling or capoeira. The children take capoeira and fencing and golf and all the things that they do to own our time. And then dinner, I'm a fan of Green Chef, but I don't follow the directions. Just like I don't use Strava, I don't follow the Green Chef directions. Some people use Blue Apron, whatever it is, the directions take too long. I'm like, I could make this meal way faster and it'll taste just as good just doing it my way versus following these intricate detailed instructions. So I do that a lot for dinner because it's, it's really, really good, but also helps me to not have to go to the grocery store. We try to get them in bed by 8:30. Mommy does story time every night, and I'm guilty because I lay down with them at night. I still cuddle with them because I enjoy that quality time. And then hopefully my husband wakes me up before morning. He's better about it now. He'll get me up at about 11. We try to spend some time together. There watching scary things that I hate to watch, but I'm trying to be a better partner to him and do things he likes. But we get into quality time, and then we go to bed and do it all over again. Awesome.

38:55 Scott Ingram: That is so good. I miss the cuddling time reading the stories. My daughters are, are 13 and 15 now, and yeah, sailed long ago. So yeah, you gotta take advantage of it while it's there. Exactly.

39:06 Jheryn Kenney: And that's why I don't feel guilty at all. I do it every night, and it's okay if Mommy falls asleep too, because Daddy will come get me if he wants me.

39:15 Scott Ingram: That's what I was laughing at, because that's what happens by that time of day. You're just so wiped out. Like, oh yeah, you know, I'm here, I read myself to sleep.

39:22 Jheryn Kenney: Yeah, I'm on E. And so I didn't mention my Peloton. I try to get in the Peloton, actually. That's what I do. So at like 4… so if they get home at like 5:15, I try to sneak in a ride at like 4:30. It's only like a 30-minute ride, but that's my transition since I don't don't… since I don't commute anymore, I'll try to hop on the Peloton for a quick ride at like 4:30 to just, you know, transition my mind. But you know how it goes. Well, you actually sounds like you're really good about being disciplined, but I get it in where I can fit it in.

39:52 Scott Ingram: Well, it's got to happen very first thing. I've really just kind of learned about myself from a kind of mental health perspective. I have to work out basically every day, and if I don't do it first thing There's so much other stuff that gets in the way, so it has to be the first thing I do, and then I'm good. Like that sort of sets me up for success the whole rest of the day. And nice, it's six days a week. I missed. We're having this conversation the tail end of April. I missed two days this week or this month.

40:19 Jheryn Kenney: This month. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Good for you. Good for you. I'm inspired. I'm gonna do it. Good. I'm gonna ping. I'm gonna send you a message next month on the last day of May and let you know how many days I've written.

40:28 Scott Ingram: There we go. There we go. Sales Tech Scott. That's where you'll find me. Find me. Awesome. Last sponsor shout out here. We just finished talking about structure, and I think it's really important to have structure in your outreach so you can consistently be creating new opportunities and a strong pipeline. And what better way to structure your outreach than with Outreach? Their annual Unleash event is happening next week, so if you haven't registered for that yet, go do it now. I know they're planning a ton of big announcements in that as well, so check them out and all that's going on with their platform at top1.fm/outreach. All right, so are there any other kind of habits or routines or anything that are central to your success?

41:12 Jheryn Kenney: When I think about habits that are… or routines that are key to my success, I would say… I feel like I have so many answers for this, and then I also don't have any answers for it. I think being very self-aware is something that I've become good with. It's routine where I'll take a look back at the week, usually not the day, because my days just go so fast. I don't always have that quiet time to sit and think about the day, or I may not want to. I may just want to like go ride the Peloton, but like at least once a week I'll look back and have a very honest conversation about, okay, what went well? What didn't? What am I doing well or better? And what am I not? You know, how did I succeed this week? And if I didn't, why not? So really just taking that time on Fridays to really kind of look back so that I can go into the weekend kind of clear-minded. Because if there was something where I missed during the week or something that I don't feel good about, it's going to stay with me over the weekend unless I take that time on Friday to like think about it and deal with it, you know, think about it honestly and deal with it. That's awesome.

42:18 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. That's really interesting. So So I know you're big into learning and I know you're watching scary movies that you don't want to watch at night. What does the rest of your information diet look like? What are you reading? What are you listening to? What are you watching? When does that happen?

42:32 Jheryn Kenney: Yeah. So I am a member, actually inaugural member of an organization called TPC. That's the Top Percentile Collective. And it's such a good group because every person who, who's a part of it is at the top of their game. And I mean like top 5% globally. Over and over and over again. And so just hearing, hearing kind of perspective from them, what they're reading. I actually just got some information from a colleague about a specific book. I need to look it up. It's called… it's something about… and I should be able to quote it and I can't.

43:07 Scott Ingram: I'm so sorry. You can send it to me afterwards. We'll put it in the show notes. So if people go to top1.fm/118, because that'll be your episode number, we'll have the link to the book there.

43:17 Jheryn Kenney: Okay, that'd be perfect. Yeah, it's a good book about like operations and just, it's an, it's a book that's strengthening me where I don't feel like I'm as strong as I should be. So yeah, let's put that in the notes. Perfect.

43:26 Scott Ingram: And you must be reading my mind again. This is like the second time you've done this today because I just wrote down TPC in big letters and circled it because I totally forgot to mention that it was Steve Meyer who, who started that organization, who, who introduced us and Evan Kelsay that a lot of folks who listen to this podcast will know because he's been on the show, oh, twice. Okay. As a part of that, that organization. So, I'd love to hear, I'd love for you to say just a little bit more about kind of TPC and, and how that's working and what, what that's doing for you.

43:56 Jheryn Kenney: Absolutely. So, TPC is, it's an organization I'm really proud to be a part of. It is exclusively, and I hate to use the word exclusive because sometimes it has a negative connotation, but in a very positive way, it is exclusively for the top performers in sales. So the best of the best. And I like that term in this case because you have a choice and you have a lot to do with being the best of the best. And so it's something to be proud of, but it's for… there are people from multiple companies, different, mostly tech right now, a number of different companies, including LinkedIn, of course, Microsoft, Seismic, CEB, Gartner, just a number of different really strong and reputable companies. But we get to kind of just share mind space and like thoughts and like our approach and game plan with people who are succeeding consistently. And we've even gone as far as just trying to be very strategic in helping one another with our approach to winning even more. So it really, really is something that has been beneficial to me to be a part of. I'm super happy that my company decided to sponsor my involvement, but yeah, it's good. And, and they also, that's a group too. I'll include some of the tips that they've shared as far as books that they're reading and other podcasts. Perfect. Perfect.

45:12 Scott Ingram: Yeah, the work that, that Steve is doing with that group is, is super impressive, and, and we've been having a lot of good conversations here lately about just different ways that we can continue to collaborate. I know a number of those members are going to be joining us at the Sales Success Summit here in Austin this October. So fantastic. Great group to look into if you are already in that top-performing kind of top percentile type of, type of place. What about just the tools and apps like, what does your personal tech stack look like that's, that's helping you thrive? Not Strava. Not Strava.

45:45 Jheryn Kenney: I actually try to do less. I just feel like there's so much already. Of course, we use CRM, Salesforce, we probably will switch to Dynamics eventually. But CRM, I've become… it's become more integral because I've stopped resisting it. And it is actually very helpful. Certainly Sales Navigator, for really just the opportunity to, like, I don't prospect into like net new opportunities, but So that I can get multi-threaded and really start to understand all of who's potentially involved. I use Sales Navigator a lot. I do. I use Tableau a bit for running reports and really just leading with insights, because I think particularly for those customers who are hard to get, you know, insights at least can start a conversation. They might still like make, you know, object or try to call out or poke holes in data, but at least we're having a conversation because what I find is that people who are people are often more driven, you know, to… like, like we often say, avoid pain. But also, nobody wants to have a public miss. They don't want to mess up or miss something that they should have been on top of. So using the data and the insights I can pull from Tableau as well are helpful. What else? We use Merlin to help our presentations look beautiful.

46:58 Scott Ingram: I don't know Merlin. Tell me about…

47:00 Jheryn Kenney: what is that? Merlin is a really good tool that helps to templatize decks or PowerPoints. And so you still can customize it. It doesn't so much give you the content, but at least kind of gives you… you can pull, like, let's say I'm making a business case for why customer needs to do something. We, our insights team, has actually created some of those reports so that they're scaled and we can just pull them. And then the presentation's already put together and any changes we make, it's just because we want to make it it, you know, we want to make those customizations, but the presentation that I used to take 3 weeks to make, I now can pull in like 30 seconds. So Merlin is my friend for sure in that space.

47:44 Scott Ingram: Love it. Do you subscribe to a particular sales philosophy? You know, I don't think so.

47:51 Jheryn Kenney: I've, I've been around for, for some time and I've learned so many different sales philosophies, sales models. And I think there's a number of them that are strong. Like, I'm a fan of the challenger sale. I'm a big-time fan. I used to coach debate, so… and my husband's a politician, so it makes sense why I would be a fan of the challenger sale. I also… I really just believe in being authentic and leading with insights, or challenging with insights. Or… but yeah, there's not one for me really. I'm a bit more outside of the box than most. And when I think back about my weeks, a lot of times, sometimes I think I should be be more like pragmatic and, and, you know, follow a certain process. I just don't always do that. I just, I don't like to feel too, you know, constrained. So I do what makes sense and go from there, focus on my customers, find my mobilizers and move it. And it's interesting because I've worked in so many different industries. But that's what works for me.

48:49 Scott Ingram: Well, so as we think about what your own kind of personal approach is, or maybe we want to talk about it as your, as your style, like, how would you, how would you describe your, your way. Yeah. Yeah.

49:01 Jheryn Kenney: That's a good way to think about it. It's my style and my way, because it is different. I stopped trying to force myself to be so process-oriented. I do have some processes, but you know, at the end of the day, I try to think of each customer differently and like focus on like what's going to make the biggest impact to them. Like the use cases can vary, But, you know, being like, being honest, like my mom's a VP. So we have real conversations on Friday. Like she complains about millennials and while we're drinking wine and I have to talk her off the ledge for not firing them. But like, I recognize that again, she, like all leaders within companies, are real people who have real problems to solve. So my style is just being real. I'm not going to say informal because I'm not informal, but what I am is just, a real person. So back to that, my style is being a real person. And like I used… I found myself shrinking a little bit when I first came to LinkedIn. I have a colleague, Anna Karouge, who is a member of TPC. She is like the best salesperson I've ever met in my entire life. She is amazing. And she was my onboarding buddy and she's so good, but she's so different. And I found myself trying to be like her and say it like her. And And I was really like screwing myself up in the head. It was like not possible. And so I think I had to just realize, okay, my style is just being who I am and having the conversation how I'm going to have it. Same thing when I spent time in the pharmaceutical industry. At first I was so busy trying to read what was on the, whatever they called it, the presentation piece or communicate every single word on there. But then I've moved away from that and that, you know what? What is it that this person or this body of people need to know? Why do they need to know it? You know, what's it going to do for them? So it's that simple for me. And saying it just how I might have said it just now, but being like, just very bottom line and getting to the point.

51:02 Scott Ingram: Yeah, I think, I mean, that was such a good encapsulation because I see this over and over and over again. It, you know, what makes people the best is when they're the best And it doesn't work when you try and do it somebody else's way because that's their way.

51:17 Jheryn Kenney: You're not them. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So, 100% right. You got a lot going on.

51:23 Scott Ingram: What motivates you? What drives all of this? I so do.

51:27 Jheryn Kenney: I have so much going on, and I have said that I'm going to start saying no, no, and no. Like, my first response is going to be no, but it can't be because I believe that we're all here for a reason. I believe that we all make meaningful impact when we care to do so. I believe that I can walk and chew gum at the same time, so I can be excellent at work as well as contribute outside of work. And I think that, you know, we all have one life to live and, and I want to make it count. I want to enjoy it to the fullest. You know, my work gives me the ability to, to have an enjoyable life. And I just, I want to enjoy every bit of it. That's really what it is. I just want to enjoy all that there is. You don't want to look back, or I don't want to look back and say, gosh, I spent so much time working and I was the best and I won all these awards, because while that's true, I have won a lot of awards. I don't… that can't… it can't be at the cost of enjoying my life. And so I'm just driven to have a good time, have a good time, but also in seriousness, also help people. I mean, I'm not saying that to sound cliché because you know how I feel about cliché salespeople. I do believe… I know that I can help people. Like, for example, like, this isn't… this isn't something I've presented to LinkedIn yet. Literally 3 days ago, I joined the governor's board of trustees for this program. But because I know how LinkedIn is thinking about creating opportunity for every member of the global workforce, that's our vision, to create economic opportunity for every member of the global workforce. Because I know that's something that we're figuring out and fully committed to at LinkedIn, I also know that there are people who have, you know, circumstances, some, you know, because of their own doing, sometimes not. But there are people who have different circumstances in life. Life who could be incredibly or forever impacted if they had an opportunity. And so, because I'm in this position, I have reached to both, and there's no reason why I can't find a little bit of time in my day, or, you know, some time, you know, carve out some time, whether it's to make connections with people who can help one another, whether it's to help, you know, guide how they're thinking about their program. But I just think you can't keep your knowledge to yourself. You can't keep your relationships or your access to yourself. It's just not fair to do so because who's to say just because you're good at what you do doesn't mean it had to go that way for you. You could be amazing. They always say the story about the guy who's better than Michael Jordan, or nowadays who's better than LeBron, who never made it to the NBA. You know, sometimes things just don't go your way, you know, but because they have gone my way, yes, I've certainly contributed, but I also recognize that I don't have to be in the position that I am and have the access that I do. Or the ability to help people that I do. So, it's only fair as a human, you know, a decent human to help where I can.

54:12 Scott Ingram: That's amazing. That's amazing. Well, you mentioned cliché salespeople. And I think the next couple of questions will give us a chance to talk about that, or maybe the opposite of that. Because I always like to ask, is there something you believe that the average sales professional would think is crazy? Yes.

54:29 Jheryn Kenney: I think that the average salesperson would think it's crazy to subscribe to the fact that you can use ugly decks. Your presentations can be ugly and they don't have to be perfect. The fonts don't have to be amazing and everything doesn't have to be exactly as you would want it to be if you're painting a beautiful work of art. I used to think that way. And what I realized is that like all the time and energy that I'm putting into trying to perfect this presentation is of no consequence because it doesn't matter. They shouldn't be judging my… the way it looks on paper. If what I'm presenting to them is meaningful enough, then they don't… they shouldn't give a dang what it looks like. Do you know what I mean? I do.

55:11 Scott Ingram: I do. As somebody… oh yeah. When we speak of weaknesses, this is my biggest weakness. I am so visually inept that I literally have a full-time husband and wife team that have been with me essentially since the beginning of this podcast, but, you know, not full-time, but that's a more recent development. Because it is just, it's such a gaping hole for me. I cannot make a deck look good for my life. I struggle with stick figures. You know, I just, I have to shore that up. There's no way I'm going to be any good at that ever. So let me find somebody who's amazing at it and let them help them help me.

55:49 Jheryn Kenney: Yeah, exactly. Allow people to lean into their strengths. Everybody wins like that. That's right. I'm with you all day long. Yep. Yeah. Free yourself from the perfect deck.

55:56 Scott Ingram: It doesn't have to be your job too. Like, I just, I lean on so many teammates. I'm like, because if you leave this to me, it ain't gonna be pretty. And I might do Do it bad enough that it could hurt you.

56:08 Jheryn Kenney: That's fair. It's good self-reflection. There you go. There you go.

56:13 Scott Ingram: Well, what what about the flip side? Is there something that the average sales professional believes, or or that is kind of sales dogma, if you will, that you think is just nuts?

56:23 Jheryn Kenney: Yes, and I I don't know if I should say this out loud, but I am not. I know it's gonna be juicy. I am not a fan of pilot. Pilots at all. And my customers know it, my team, they know I am not a fan. I, I do believe in like a proof of concept, so a POC, but the time and the energy to invest in a pilot has to be worthwhile. And I believe that rarely it is. I think that too often… I wouldn't say rarely, you know, it's… I can't say that, but I think that too often the customers go is I want to do a pilot without any consideration for what that's going to cost me as far as my time, my investment, my team's time, my team's investment. So I push hard against pilots. I don't offer them. I say no to them. I make people qualify for them. Like, I go hard. I am just not a fan because I just don't think that they're necessary. As a last resort, if the deal is worth it, I'll do a pilot. And beg somebody to help me. I have colleagues who can help, but like, you know, it really needs to be worthwhile to pull them away from, you know, what we're already working on. And I also just think that as salespeople, we should push back more on customers. They need to value our time. Like, I'm not doing it because you asked me to, you know, like, sure, give me the… give me $1 million of your time. Like, no, I'm not doing that. Like, unless you're like, Like, I need some sort of assurance to know that it's worth me doing so, because your time invested one place is time taken away from some other place. So, sorry if y'all think it's crazy.

58:07 Scott Ingram: I want to know more, and maybe it'll help if we draw a distinction between what's a proof of concept, what's a pilot, and why is the pilot so dangerous? Okay, fair.

58:18 Jheryn Kenney: So, a proof of concept, the way we use it is where we We pull the customer's actual data, or they submit to us actual accounts that they want us to look at. And we, they get an opportunity to see, okay, how their data, how it works. Like what I'm speaking of right now is something called LinkedIn Sales Insights. It's new. And so it allows companies to leverage all of LinkedIn to make sure that they're targeting the right customers, identify white space, et cetera. So if we pull your actual customers that you've given to us, we didn't pick them out, we didn't carve them out to make it look pretty. You told us which ones you want us to use. And we run, you know, and we allow you basically to play with it. And we show you, okay, this is real, this is how it works. And this is what, you know, the outcome is for you and your specific customers. That, to me, should be sufficient. If, like, let's say, okay, you might be concerned about an integration, but if we're already You already know our platforms integrate. Like, there's no need to do a whole pilot for us to prove, okay, that the… like, for what? Like, for what reason? I just can't think of a good enough reason aside from you're not fully sold, you don't see the value, and you think that my time is yours. Pilots are just way more in-depth. They take so much more time, and you don't pull a lot more information. The only thing that you get from a pilot that you don't get from a proof of concept is being able to play with it yourself. But you can do that with a proof of concept just with us at the same time. You also get to know that the integration works, but you already know that because we're already integrated. So unless there's a really good reason to do a pilot, I just try not to. It's just the time investment to me is not worth the return. Yeah, yeah. Any customers bought in as well and invested as well.

1:00:04 Scott Ingram: You know, it's interesting because I actually have similar philosophies about that. You know, back when I was at Eloqua, we would sort of pivot into and do like a conference room pilot. And the best… it's funny that we use the word pilot because I think the best analogy that's worked for me is it's kind of like a flying lesson, right? Especially with a complex solution. Like, the last thing I want to do is put you in a plane that you don't know how it works and expect you to be able to successfully fly it without crashing and burning and it just… you not having a very good experience, right?

1:00:41 Jheryn Kenney: Exactly.

1:00:42 Scott Ingram: Versus, tell you what, tell you what, why don't we get in the plane together? I'll get it up off the ground. You can kind of take the controls. I could point at some things and show you and you can kind of get a feel for it. And then I'll go land it for you because that's hard too.

1:00:58 Jheryn Kenney: And then you're like, okay, see, that's kind of how it works.

1:01:00 Scott Ingram: Like without it, because it's too open-ended the other way. Like, what… how…

1:01:04 Jheryn Kenney: what are you gonna do with this? Like, you don't know what you're doing. Agreed, agreed. They could crash and burn and you can't be there to help them. Agreed.

1:01:12 Scott Ingram: Well, there we go, there we go. Hopefully that's helpful for other people. Do flying lessons, but don't let them pilot. Exactly. There you go. So, Jheryn, what have been the most important decisions you've made, or the lessons you've had to learn to get where you are today?

1:01:28 Jheryn Kenney: Yeah, I think, I think I mentioned a little bit about this earlier. I've worked in a number of different industries Like pharma and biotech, direct sales, industrial sales, and now tech sales. I think for me, I would say that that was the most important lesson: knowing that it's okay to go get the the experience that you need. But but specifically, I took a pay cut to go work for Granger before coming here to LinkedIn, and the reason why I did that was because I knew there was a gap. When I worked in biotech and pharma, I sold to physicians and to some healthcare systems. But even still, healthcare systems are a little bit… they're more like enterprises, but doctors and even the largest medical practices aren't the same as selling to a large enterprise like, I don't know, Boeing, or I don't know, American Express, or whomever. Like, it's different knowing how… being able to successfully navigate a large enterprise. And so that lesson was was, was important for me because I didn't want to take a pay cut. I also didn't want to go into industrial sales, but I knew that it was an opportunity to get some real enterprise experience with a really notorious customer. Amazon was my customer and they were… it was a dogged experience. It was difficult, but I learned so, so much from doing that. And I think that's, that's key for me, like being honest with yourself about what's, what your gaps are. Are, and then going to, to do what you need to, to get stronger in that space. So it definitely made a difference for me.

1:03:03 Scott Ingram: Awesome. Along those lines, I, I wonder, you know, especially given that you kind of do work in, in these spaces and you probably give this advice all the time, what do you tell people that are just starting out in a sales career? What advice do you give to them to help them find success over the long term?

1:03:19 Jheryn Kenney: Yeah, I think there's a few things. One, I think it's important to fail fast. Like, it's okay to like get in there and give it your best and like fail fast, meaning like try. If there's something new that's out or something new that's, you know, being taught, learn it or like go for it. Even if you like mess up at the beginning, that's okay. What I'd add to that is ask for help. It's perfectly okay and preferred to ask for help. I know for me, I carried a lot of weight of feeling like, okay, I don't want to ask because I should know the answer. Even just yesterday, I pinged a colleague and said, Hey, I should know the answer, but I don't have time to keep not knowing the answer and I can't find it. I'm trying to close this deal. And she was like, yeah, of course. And like, she got it to me in like 3 seconds. And I'm like, literally, I've already spent 45 minutes, maybe not 45 minutes, but probably 30, 20 or 30, which is way too much time. And when you value your time, certainly you need to be resourceful, but you also like can ask. It's okay. It's okay. I think that's important because we put so much pressure on ourselves as, as newer professionals. I'd add one other thing. And I think that's inspired by a number of my colleagues who, who I used to work with in the pharmaceutical industry, which has changed a lot in the last few years. It's key to pay attention to trends and not just trends that affect what you're selling, but trends that affect your industry, the one that you're selling to, but specifically in this case, I'm talking about the industry that you're working in. Because you have to be ahead of change. Like, don't be the last one standing there. Like, remember the book from a million years ago, Who Moved My Cheese? Don't be the one… I think it was Haw, the one who like didn't want to face reality, you know, so you get there too late. But like, recognize where business is going. Like, I remember in the pharmaceutical industry, there were some people who were just saying, oh, this is so good, we're gonna ride it until the wheels fall off. And I'm like, yeah, that's great, and that sounds good, But the wheels fell off, you know, to an extent to that particular group and they weren't paying attention. And so, it was really hard for them to kind of get back on track because they weren't paying attention to what was going on around them. Interesting.

1:05:31 Scott Ingram: How are you doing that today, like in this role? So, in kind of the world of sales, how are you tracking those trends and keeping abreast of what's going on?

1:05:40 Jheryn Kenney: Yeah. So, I have to do a lot of research just for the role so that I can make sure I'm aligned with the customer's business priorities. But in doing that, I, you know, I read a lot of articles about their industry, about their company, but then that takes me to, you know, more articles or more learnings about their industries. And so I think just taking, allowing that time to be a part of my job is helpful because knowing what trends, business trends are, is helpful to me in my job, but it's also helpful to me in my career. So that's a big part of it, just reading. And even if that's just like carving out time in your day, day to read what's going on. I turned off politics on my alerts because there were so many, like, gosh, you know, like with the political campaign, there was 50 trillion alerts every day. And I'm like, this isn't the conversation I need to be having all day, every day. I need to really understand more about what's going on in the business world or what's going on in the world around me that could impact, you know, business that's represented by my customers. So yeah, just, just making it a part of the day. I used to try to do that stuff after But now I make it a part of my workday. And then I also belong to a number of organizations that are, you know, filled with people who are tuned in and who care about what's going on around them. So it's like social, but it's also, you know, professional development at the same time. I think that's the biggest way to be able to enjoy your professional development time. That goes a long way. There you go. And then just put in the time yourself.

1:07:05 Scott Ingram: And that's the perfect transition to… I typically ask the question question, what would you want to know about the top sellers in other organizations? And you have direct access to that through the Top Percentile Collective. So, how do you use that? Like, what are the questions that you're asking? What… how are you working to develop yourself and learn from some of those others that are also at the top of their game?

1:07:27 Jheryn Kenney: Yeah, yeah. So, the fast answer is that I want to know everything from them. I do think that even when you're successful, you can still get better. So, I'm always curious to know, like, what other people are doing, how they're approaching business. If we find that we have a shared account, that can be a game changer because now I want to know, okay, who are you talking to and what are they saying? You know, what am I missing? How are you approaching the business? But it's really everything. Like, I think when I first came to LinkedIn, I remember there was a gentleman who was super successful, actually Craig Canton, who's a part of the TPC as well. He's now with Microsoft. He was so successful. Like, he… Craig was Anna's mentor for a little while. And he had like, he was like, you know, So like, I won't say he was, I guess, notorious, not in a bad way though. Infamous. I don't know the right word, but he was well known for being very successful over and over and over. And I knew he was… I didn't know him very well at all. I was new, but I knew he was successful. So I asked him to like meet me at the cafe. Let's go, you know, grab some coffee. You're getting coffee anyway. Talk to me while you're getting your coffee. And I asked him like everything, but I asked him similar questions to what I'm asking you. Like, Okay, why does it seem like it's so easy for you, but it's certainly a lot harder for others? What are you doing that they're not? What do you think is the most important thing that we should be doing with our time right now? It's not always like super technical, but it's like, okay, recognizing that your process may or may not be one of perfection. For me, I don't even have a set process anyway, so it can't possibly be perfect, but just learning what they're doing and even, you know, how they've worked through some challenging situations. So nothing magic, but I just want to know what they know. I want to know what they know.

1:09:12 Scott Ingram: So it's so funny that you called out Craig. I didn't even realize Craig was part of TPC, but doesn't surprise me at all. Like, I guess that's awesome. Yeah. So we've covered a lot of ground. I have really enjoyed this. I wonder if there's something that somehow I just didn't ask the right question to get at. Is there something else that you were hoping, you know what, I hope that I can share share this or that. Is there any of those left?

1:09:34 Jheryn Kenney: Yeah, I would just add, for those who are in sales and are happily contributing as an individual, if it's your goal, I imagine it's your goal to succeed at the highest level since you're listening to this podcast, but let's say you haven't. I think it's a good opportunity to have some real honest conversation with yourself. I think too often we make, we make excuses in sales for why, like, oh, I got a bad book. Or, you know, like in pharma, they would always complain and say, oh, well, if you hit club one year, you know, you're going to plummet the next year because you jack your goal up so high. And then, you know, like people have all types of stories for like why they are where they are. So I would just encourage anyone who's open to it, myself included, to be brutally honest with yourself and not in a way where you're beating up on yourself, but to be honest. If it's your desire to do better, Write down why aren't you doing better? Like, write down the reasons. And if you don't know, then ask your peers and have… like, invite them to coffee like I did with Craig and like tell them, look, I'm trying to grow. I really want to do better, but I clearly have some blind spots. Like, I need to know what's wrong, or I need to know how I'm showing up. I need to know how I can do better. And like, make them… people oftentimes don't want to give negative feedback. They want to be nice nice, but like make them say, look, if your whole job depended on it, or let's say I was going to give you $1,000 right here to tell me like what's wrong, or what is it that I don't see? How am I showing up? How is this received? Like ask them questions and get them to tell you the less, you know, pleasant stuff. Like you don't always just want to hear what you want to hear because that doesn't help you grow. But if you get, let's say, 5, 6, 7 people to do that with you, people that you respect, then you're going to hopefully start hearing some common threads there. And you might realize, okay, there might be something to this. It's not just one person who said it, but 3, 4 people are saying this. Now, you know where you need to put in the effort. And yeah, I would just say that. We can leave it there because I could go on. We're going to leave it there, but that's it. Be honest, be self-aware, find out. I wonder if that's the action.

1:11:43 Scott Ingram: So the last question I usually ask is, you know, we talked about a whole bunch of stuff. But, but how do we make this actionable? Like, what would you encourage the person who just finished listening to this to do to improve themselves and improve their results over the next, you know, say 1 week or 2 weeks? Is it that? Is it to have some of these conversations or is it something else?

1:12:02 Jheryn Kenney: No, it's that all day long. It's that, like, have real conversations because you might be saying, gosh, I'm doing everything I can. I'm working so hard, you know, or you could be saying something different, but talk to the people who spend the time with you or who see you, you know, at work. And maybe they see how you work, or maybe they see you during your presentations, but talk to people who are close to you and make them tell you something constructive. Like, don't ask for… tell them, great, thank you for the compliment, but that's not what I want. But make them tell you at least 2 things and tell them, hey, let's, you know, pretend there's $1,000 on the line. There's not, but like, for real, you know, but force them to tell you because people are sometimes uncomfortable with it, but there's no growth in being comfortable. So, y'all gotta get uncomfortable and help each other out. And, and when I say y'all, I mean us, because I'm certainly doing the same thing. And all the people that we just mentioned on this call will tell you that I literally like held them up and forced them to like sit with me for 15 minutes and we're gonna talk. And I certainly do what I can to support anything they're doing as well. So, I love it.

1:13:05 Scott Ingram: I love it. Jheryn, this has been amazing. You're amazing. Thank you for taking the time to tell your story. Thank you so much.

1:13:11 Jheryn Kenney: I really enjoyed this time. Thanks for the invitation. Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast. To be sure you never miss an episode and for an invitation to our Sales Success Community powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter at top1.fm.