112: Don't Waste a Word: Cutting through the Fluff with TowerPoint Capital's Alex Bruschi

0:00 Scott Ingram: This episode is brought to you thanks to the generous support of Proposify, Outreach, and Terryberry. To learn more about them and all of our sponsors who are supporting this show and this community, visit top1.fm/sponsors.

0:23 Scott Ingram: You're listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, where we deconstruct world-class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve To learn more, visit us at top1.fm. Here's your host, Scott Ingram.

0:39 Scott Ingram: Today on the Sales Success Stories podcast, my guest is Alex Bruschi. Alex is the number one director of acquisitions at TowerPoint. Welcome to the show, Alex.

0:47 Alex Bruschi: Great to be on, Scott. How are you?

0:49 Scott Ingram: I'm great. I've been so looking forward to this conversation because you are one of the full circle listeners, right? You, you went From you know we had a conversation that I'm eager to dig back into and have you remind me of exactly what that conversation was a couple of years ago. And now here you are, literally sitting at the top of the game, number one in in your current role, and you made the goal of of being on the podcast. So looking forward to coming to that. But we got to start like we always do with that immediate value. And let's talk about the top three things that got you here. What were those things?

1:24 Alex Bruschi: Yeah, definitely looking forward to digging into that, Scott. But as far as the three tips go, number one is. Following a simple process consistently. The main piece of information here is going back on a previous episode, actually, I'd heard with Stephen Chase and Kyle about not getting too attached in your outcomes as a salesperson, because you're going to take yourself not only through the up and down roller coaster of the day-to-day life, but you're not going to put through your requisite actions in order to actually do your job. I wanted to also give a special shout out to the piece of having a simple process that the less complications there are in your way, the more effective you'll be able to be.

2:10 Scott Ingram: Yeah, beautiful. So what's number 2?

2:12 Alex Bruschi: Number 2 is being ultra specific. Simply don't waste a word. Nobody wants to hear fluff these days.

2:21 Scott Ingram: And where is that? Is that predominantly in the outreach and the prospecting that you're doing, or are you using that throughout your sales process?

2:27 Alex Bruschi: Yeah, good question. In general, mostly throughout the sales process, it's kind of like, you know, when mom asks who stole the cookie from the cookie jar, right? And brother says no. And, you know, the other brother says, oh, but I was in the backyard and doing this and doing that. And so it couldn't have been me. Like, you know who's, you know, who's lying. So what I would say particularly is when there are specific questions that you're being asked about your product, your service, Just give the direct answer.

2:57 Scott Ingram: How much of that do you think comes into play because of the typical persona that you're selling to? And we'll get to the point that we bring some context around this because you're in a very unique type of sales role. But do you think that that's a factor because of who your quote unquote buyer or in your case, seller is?

3:15 Alex Bruschi: Right. Yeah, that definitely plays a large, large factor. For reference in advance, in most accounts that I'm working, I'm typically the 20th, 30th, 50th person, you know, to have ever reached out to them. So there's definitely a bit of a wall to break down at first, and that's where that conciseness can really help to break down some of those walls and build trust.

3:39 Scott Ingram: Nice. So what's the third point?

3:41 Alex Bruschi: Third point, questions sell better than statements. And this goes back to the old homage of you can't really make anyone change their mind, you know, in terms of beating them with statements and your, your reasoning and this and that, nothing gets someone to think more internally than a question. And furthermore, any statement that you would have made anyway can always be rephrased into a question. And not only does it sell better, but it also has your prospects more involved and engaged in the process.

4:14 Scott Ingram: Love that. I want to come back to that, but I think it'll be helpful for us first to have the context. So talk about exactly what your role is, what TowerPoint does, and how this works, because it really is a pretty different thing.

4:29 Alex Bruschi: Definitely. Yeah. So I work as the Director of Acquisitions and Territory Manager at TowerPoint. We essentially are a cell tower REIT, a cell tower real estate investment trust. And for those unfamiliar, you could think CBRE. We purchase existing income streams associated with cell tower leases.

4:52 Scott Ingram: Perfect. And that includes the land. Buying the whole thing typically, right?

4:56 Alex Bruschi: That depends. I don't want to get too granular. A lot of times we're encapsulating it in an easement, so there's no actually transfer of fee ownership. But for today's argument's sake, we have much flexibility with how we move forward, which just only increases the need for good communication throughout the sales process.

5:14 Scott Ingram: Gotcha. So now with that context, maybe give us an example of or 2 of when you're talking to a cell phone tower owner how you would use a question rather than a statement as part of that process.

5:29 Alex Bruschi: Yeah. Good question. So one of the major reasons that people transact with us is to avoid income taxes. When you collect cell phone tower income on a monthly basis, you're paying ordinary income tax, which is the highest tax bracket. Whereas if people sell the interest of their lease to us, it's either taxed as long-term capital gains, which is a reduced tax rate, or it's eligible for what's called a 1031 exchange, where if you use the money to purchase a brand new piece of property, you don't end up paying the taxes. So let's say I'm talking to you and you're unfamiliar with what a 1031 exchange is. If I call you up and say, hey Scott, sell me the tower. You could do a 1031 exchange and you're going to make a whole lot of money. I don't really think that's doing much to get you behind the vision. Whereas if I said, hey Scott, Have you ever done the math of how much you're paying in taxes by just continuing to collect this rent on a monthly basis rather than reinvesting it? You ever done that math?

6:30 Scott Ingram: And that gives you that understanding of where they're at, what their level of sophistication is and how they're thinking about it, how they've maybe processed it.

6:38 Alex Bruschi: And what's important to them, because some people are fine with doing that. Taxes aren't the biggest deal in the world to every single person, but to some people, they're highly sensitive to taxes. So the question Question asking is not only going to keep them engaged; it's not only going to keep your talk track relevant, but you're essentially doing discovery as you're asking all of these questions, as you're selling through your questions. So it's almost just this continuous process of keeping the client on track to where we want to go.

7:11 Scott Ingram: That's awesome. That's awesome. All right. I can't hold out anymore. I want to let's just kind of talk through the backstory. Let's talk about your adventure through sales with kind of a special emphasis on where you were, what was going on, kind of the mindset and the challenge when we had our conversation a couple of years ago, and then how that led to TowerPoint and everything that you've done since.

7:35 Alex Bruschi: Yeah, so this is a fun one. So back in the spring of 2018, I had stumbled upon the Sales Success Stories podcast actually on a hike, ironically enough. I'd listened to the show a whole bunch, had a lot of really great early-on episodes that really resonated with me. And I was at a sales job where I was disgruntled. I was frustrated. It wasn't really a good fit. I was in the mindset of the leads suck. You know, if I had the person's leads who, you know, if the top person, if I had his or her leads, you know, I would be number one on the board too. Just that real, real petty mindset that's never really going to lead anyone. To success. And so I kind of boldly at that point shot a, shot a message to Scott on LinkedIn and said, hey, I, I love your podcast. I'd love to meet you. You know, I told him my situation. I'd just been fired. I've, I've got a couple new companies that I'm considering. I'd be curious to know if you had any feedback. And to my surprise, Scott answered. This was what, May of, May of 2018 now, going on almost 3 years ago in just a handful of months, crazy enough. And you were kind enough to walk me through what you felt was best in my interest and what stories were relevant to you when you were a seller. So I just can't thank you enough for that, Scott. And here we are today.

9:03 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So I want to talk about some pieces kind of before and after that and maybe a little bit more during. So what was kind of your sales journey? What brought you into sales and what were those first few steps until we got to the fired conversation?

9:18 Alex Bruschi: Yes. So I did a brief study abroad program when I was finishing up school, which kind of pushed me behind a semester of my normal timeline graduating. So I say that to say that I came into my senior year having no internship, just coming back from Spain. So I say all this to say I was very last minute in finding an internship, and I ended up interviewing, you know, at a company that was just a generic financial group, you know. And I said, hey, you know, I like numbers, I'm into business dealings, so let me, let me go ahead and give it a shot. Funny enough, I interned there for about a month not knowing what we did. I sat in on meetings. I'm just kind of blended in, I would say. And it was actually at a life insurance firm. And so after a couple of months or so of getting my feet wet and sitting in on meetings and hearing how people, you know, were in their, in their selling lives, I actually started pursuing how I could be compensated because we had a lot of folks that were making calls. Long story short, I ended up calling and making some appointments for some senior reps. Was very successful in making those calls on cold calling lists. I didn't even have any cold calling strategies either. I just thought of it as calling people up and asking them if they'd like to set a meeting. So I just kind of had that simplicity approach before I even realized I was doing it. And so that kind of spiraled down. Life insurance is a tough industry for anyone out there who's ever done it. I dabbled even in some, some door-to-door canvassing for solar back when solar energy was, was first becoming relevant in New York City back then. And then from there was the move to San Diego. And when I moved into San Diego, I got right into the job where, you know, the, the unceremonious firing occurred. And then from there, I switched to TowerPoint, and here I've been since.

11:10 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So let's talk about that transition phase a little bit more. I vaguely remember the conversation. I remember pacing in a… which is kind of something I do when I talk sometimes. And I was in a hotel room somewhere, God knows where. What did I say, right? What were we talking about? How was that advice helpful, because maybe it'll be helpful to other folks that are in a comparable spot.

11:32 Alex Bruschi: Definitely. I certainly remember a large portion of time being spent on, on just general mindset, because obviously any of us who have been in sales know, know what an emotional roller coaster this could be. And I never really had that time for someone to really walk me through what, what kind of mindset is needed to be successful in a role like this. And you certainly helped me out quite a bunch. What you also gave me in terms of advice that was very profound found is because I was particularly choosing in between 2 companies. And I remember very vividly you saying, you know, hey, this other company sounds cool, but, you know, TowerPoint sounds like the type of business plan that I look at it on the back of the napkin and I understand right away. This other company, I don't necessarily understand it, right? It's a little bit confusing. They're raising funds also, like, who knows how much money they actually have. And so I'll never forget that piece of advice because it once again goes back to that simplicity piece of, hey, if this is something you don't understand on the back of a napkin, then it just might not be the right fit for you.

12:40 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's really interesting. You know, I'm reminded of is speaking of kind of this mindset piece. I wrote a story in the, the first Sales Success Stories book, and this is one that I intentionally don't share publicly. You got to get the book to get this one because it's… and I don't ever tell this story publicly either because I think it's really important that I capture the whole thing accurately. And so this is the only time that I've done that, but I wrote a story called A Rapid Rise, an Epic Fall, and Getting Fired Up. And it's the story of a time that I got fired. And, you know, it's such a, a hard kind of challenging place. And it's not the only time that I've been in just kind of a weird mental place. In fact, the role that I was in before my current job, and this is totally crazy, I just passed my 5-year mark. In this current role and, you know, still running strong, which is the longest I've ever been anywhere that I did not own the company. And I was in this place where I just, I hadn't quite like found it, right? I was doing okay in the context of the rest of the team. I was still near the top, but I was frustrated. I had this horrible boss and I had really kind of lost confidence in myself and, and my process. And it was actually my current CEO. We were together in a, in a meeting and we had some history together before that. And he heard a little bit about what was going on and, and literally offered to write me a, an offer letter on the spot. And it was, it was that that reminded me, I'm like, oh yeah, I have value. I am good at this. But I'm just not in the right spot right now. Right. So I think, I think those are probably some of the stories and examples I was sharing with you because, man, when you're in that spot, I mean, especially when somebody's essentially given you a vote of no confidence and shown you the door, that is a tough, tough place to be.

14:44 Alex Bruschi: Totally, totally. And a lot of really good things that, that you said in there. But I guess one thing that I, that I did want to point out is like for, for you to be able to, I guess, bounce back so quickly after Like, what would you attest that to? So I guess if someone is listening right now and maybe they're in a position where they're looking for a job or they've just been let go, God forbid, like, I guess what, what would you say helped you to really bounce back so quickly from that?

15:12 Scott Ingram: Well, the moral of the quote-unquote fired up story is that became my mindset. So I was literally exiting the parking garage with a box of my stuff for the last time after having been let go, and I'm next going to have to call my wife and explain to her why I don't have a job anymore, which is really not a very fun phone conversation. And I decided in that moment that I was fired up, that this happened for a reason, that it was going to lead to bigger and better things. And I just needed to find that thing and do that work. And I took a wrong turn in between. It wasn't right away, but maintaining that mindset and just deciding, you know what, what, this happened for a reason. This wasn't quite the right thing. I wasn't in quite the right place or on the right trajectory. So let me do the work and figure out what I need to fix, what I need to improve so that I can get onto the right trajectory. And, and now here we are. So that to me was the biggest piece. And it starts with a decision.

16:19 Alex Bruschi: Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, just hearing you say that, it's so fascinating how like a field like sales, just a small shift in your mindset, just a different conceptual way of looking at your role, of looking at your job, of looking at your circumstances can literally take you from the bottom of the leaderboard to the top of the leaderboard. I mean, is that not what makes sales so great?

16:43 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. Well, so let's talk about your adventure then at TowerPoint. So, so you make this decision, you move into this role, and now you've been there for, for a couple of 3 years and you've really found success there. What was that adventure like? How long did it take you to, to get to that level of comfort, to really kind of find your stride and, and get to the top?

17:07 Alex Bruschi: Yeah, that's another good question. I think, well, similarly to you, I didn't just go into the new role and everything was sparkling and perfect, you know, like I knew I was on the right track, but I didn't quite get it just yet. But, you know, the work ethic was always there. The determination was always there. It's just something hadn't clicked yet, you know what I mean? And it hadn't. Actually registered with me. And it's funny because this is a really small tangent, but I think it has to do with like absorbing information versus consuming information, right? We're in this age of heavy consumption of information, and if you're consuming all of this information and not actually putting it to use, it's not really gonna do very good. And so I say all of that to say that I'll never forget… there are many, many influential people on LinkedIn, not just yourself. I, in fact, will give a shout out to DeJuan Brown. I also spoke with DeJuan Brown during the time that I was fired, who I also had a very profound conversation with. And even beyond just, just the people who you're speaking with and what you're consuming is just make sure that you're actually putting it into use. And so I'll never forget this one post that I read from Bilal Batrawi one day that basically in short said, Hey, if this buyer is not serious about buying, then me, the seller, is not going to spend my time with that buyer. And I remember that just totally blew my mind because I was certainly in that mindset of, right, like, hey, chase everyone down, right? Always be closing. You know, that like classic sort of salesperson view. So to that person out there who, who may be, you know, doing a bunch of extra work outside of work to develop themselves and really are waiting to take that next step, make sure that you're actually absorbing and putting the information that you're putting out to use.

19:10 Scott Ingram: That's really good. And one of the questions I've been dying to ask you is, you know, having spent a lot of time with this podcast, and it's funny that you mentioned having a profound conversation with DeJuan. I feel like that's every conversation with DeJuan. I actually had one myself this week and had some, some significant epiphanies. So it's always good to talk to him. How did you absorb content from this show? What resonated? Who resonated? What were the things that you found yourself applying versus just kind of passively listening?

19:40 Alex Bruschi: That's a, that's a good question. Well, first off, there are way, way, way, way too many people to shout out in terms of, you know, who's had great episodes and who's had a great impact on me. Those early days are particularly memorable because my, you know, my previous mindset was where it was. And so I really enjoyed enjoyed, like way back when, Kyle Gutzler. And, you know, of course, Nick Cegelski was on your show a handful of months back. So there, I could go all day about who great guests you had on the show were, but to actually go out and put this stuff into action, you've got to be not just listening, but you've got to be actually… what's the word I'm looking for? You've got to actually be taking the actions out of the words. So when you hear someone that really says something that's truly profound, like, first off, obviously it just goes to say be focused when you're listening to the show at first. Don't have too much going on in the background, but really just find who resonates with you personally, because there's no set selling style that works for everyone. Scott has his own style. I have my own style. Each individual is going to put their own their own spin on it. What I would say is find a person who you would most want to emulate, or you feel like best resonates with you. Do your best to emulate that person, and then when you feel you've reached a proficiency level of emulating, then start turning it into your own.

21:16 Scott Ingram: Perfect, perfect. One of the things you may have heard if you've been listening to the podcast for a while is me talking about Proposify. It's one thing to consume this information, but as Alex just suggested, it's another thing to act based on that information. And I want you to take an action and go to top1.fm/proposify and learn about their solution. If you'd like to see a significant increase in your proposal acceptance rate, then Proposify is for you. top1.fm/proposify.

21:49 Alex Bruschi: Okay.

21:49 Scott Ingram: Now you were talking about the influence that Bilal's post had on you and the way that you implemented that. And you had mentioned before we even get started that it actually kind of ties into the way that you think about time management. Can you talk about that just a little bit?

22:06 Alex Bruschi: Definitely. Yeah. Time management has definitely become one of those buzzy words. You know, everyone talks about time management and blocking off the calendar and color coding your calendar, et cetera, et cetera. I'm going to focus specifically on who who you as a salesperson are spending your time on the phone with. Because there is always, at least for the near future, going to be that sense that salespeople have commission breath, always. And so when we're spending time with people that, without a lack of better phrase, are just afraid to tell us no because they know if they say no, it's going to be an avalanche of a salesperson overcoming objections and doing this and doing that, they lie to you out of kindness. This, right? Because they don't, they don't want to hurt your feelings, they don't want to upset you, and they'll say something like, hey Alex, why don't we pick it up in 2 weeks, right? Like, hey, I'm thinking about it, why don't we like push it off just a little bit further? And so the point is here, make sure you're spending your time with people who are actually willing to change, have a need for change, and you can actually envision making the change.

23:18 Scott Ingram: And how are qualifying? How are you determining that?

23:22 Alex Bruschi: It's a really good question. I think this kind of ties back to the, to the beginning piece that we spoke about, about just being simple and not wasting a word. Like, people are busier nowadays than they've ever been. Any person would rather just take an email and say no rather than you call them and say no. So this really starts off with, with just your questions, like finding out what, what is important to this person on the opposite line. How is this person incentivized And I even thought about this right now. I touched a point about this one time speaking to a friend, is almost think about your time as a seller almost like you're a poker player, but except your poker chips are your time. So imagine you're putting all of your chips into this one pot that's a really tiny pot. You're putting your time into small deals or you're putting all of your time into deals that are never going to go anywhere. Versus asking the questions to actually find out the truth, not just asking questions searching for yeses, or not just asking questions just to follow your process and just to make sure that you're, you're reading off the script or covering all the points that you need to, whatever the case may be. Just get to the truth right away. It's going to come up eventually anyways.

24:48 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. Now, I'm not a big poker player, but I think the analogy is basically if you don't have a winning hand fold, like get out, right?

24:56 Alex Bruschi: Exactly.

24:57 Scott Ingram: Like stop, stop riding the wave and putting in more chips after bad when you're not taking that pile.

25:03 Alex Bruschi: That's exactly true. And it kind of feels like there's like, or at least I know I had felt in a way that like the idea of sales is to take that hard no and battle back and forth with them until they're a yes, right? At least maybe that sort of like Wolf of Wall Street, like sort of, sort of culture had maybe created something like that. Like, correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like the modern-day seller is all about finding people in your industry, ideally when they're ready to buy, and that they truly have an interest in making a change. Like, why go into that battle that's just only gonna drag on your soul, right? Like, that doesn't feel good for any party involved, whereas you could just spend that time making another 5 cold calls.

25:52 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's a great call out, right? Like, help the people that want to be helped or need to be helped. And, you know, rather than trying to push a boulder up a hill, you know, find somebody who has the need.

26:02 Alex Bruschi: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And no, exactly. Yeah. And we were talking about this before, you know, I'd kind of made the… I'd made the analogy of like finding like a special teams touchdown every now and again, you know, just like finding that deal, whether it's like deep into a call log and you find the number, you know, and that person hadn't been spoke to in a while, or a whole number of other missed opportunities or closed lost opportunities, right? Going back into the past and digging up these old opportunities that never went through. Like, there are so many ways to go out there and find deals these days, especially with all the sales engagement tools, right? The CRMs and whatnot. Like, we have no excuse to be wasting our time on people that are never going to do anything and just keep the status quo. That cannot be in the playbook of the modern seller anymore.

26:55 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's great. Let's talk about some of those kind of special teams deals and and just some examples of that, right? Like how does that actually show up in in reality? What have you seen?

27:06 Alex Bruschi: Yeah, right. The analogies are getting more far-fetched as the episode goes on. I'll use the example that I gave you before the call. I guess just to chat deals a little bit. So um you know obviously for reference we're not just purchasing cell towers. There are sometimes these things are on rooftops. There are sometimes these things are on water towers, etc. And I was calling through Chicago. The long story short, the information I had for a property was bogus. And so I'm looking around for numbers. Obviously it's really easy to just call the next person, but I was digging for numbers. If anyone's familiar through LoopNet, which is commercial real estate listings, just going down pages and pages of old real estate listings and just calling whatever numbers are on there. Most of them are disconnected. I actually eventually ended up getting connected to an attorney who said, Hey, yeah, this is my client's property. It was for sale a couple of years ago, not for sale anymore. Said, hey, I'm calling about the rooftop antennas. And he goes, oh, this guy doesn't want to sell, but I've got a client a couple of miles up the road who has a tower they're about to sell. Would you be interested in making a bid? And we signed up the deal like 2 days later. So there are like all these opportunities out there where whether it's the grit of just making enough touches and enough relevant dials and messaging to finally get that person on the phone and get them to finally open up and be curious. The opportunities are out there.

28:38 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And it's also… you were also talking about just the kind of law of averages, right? And some of the mentality and mindset around that.

28:47 Alex Bruschi: Definitely. Yeah. That kind of goes back to number one, right? Just following your simple process, whether that's tracing back your quota, right? Knowing how many dials you want to make per day, knowing how often you want to be sending out proposals. But I mean, just kind of tying everything what we spoke about together, like any time that you're going to be wasting your time on the phone with somebody that's not going to make a move, you can be getting out there and making more touches. And just numerically and statistically speaking, the more touches you make, the more likely you are to run into that person that's about to sign a deal tomorrow or is coming up for renewal soon. Right. Whatever the big event may be. Lot of times that could be what pushes people towards doing a deal or not, is circumstances that have zero effect on us, right?

29:39 Scott Ingram: Yeah, yeah. So you've got this simple process that you follow consistently. What is the process?

29:46 Alex Bruschi: Oh, that's a, that's a loaded question there, huh? I mean, following the process consistently, obviously from a step 1 forward, is making your dial. Making your touches, sending out your emails, sending them out in a very simple-to-understand format. My best-performing prospecting emails are like 3 sentences and just end with a question of like, hey, is this… are you the best person to speak with at this address? Confirm yes or no. Like, and that's all you really need to push the ball forward. So the process is getting yourself in front of people. In an efficient manner who are willing to entertain your product or solution. Now, obviously there goes a lot of pieces deep into what do you say and what time should you be reaching out. I don't necessarily wanna dive into any of those particularly right this second, but in terms of following the process consistently, the consistently piece is, is I think what's most important because obviously going back to the roller coaster that is the life of a full-time salesperson, if we're attached to every single outcome of every single deal that we're prospecting, that we're trying to close, that we're trying to move up our stages, we're gonna have a pretty miserable year, right? So when your focus is on the output, when your focus is just on what can you control and focusing on that and only that, that, the success comes eventually. The down pits or the downfalls are when we're so just attached to each of the, each and every outcome of every sales call. And I think you obviously know where I'm going with this. I'm sure you've been there too.

31:39 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. One of the best ways to maintain this type of consistent prospecting effort is with Outreach. Outreach is the number one sales engagement platform that helps companies significantly increase productivity and drive smarter, more insightful engagement with their customers. More than 4,000 companies, including Adobe, Tableau, Okta, Splunk, DocuSign, and SAP, depend on Outreach's enterprise-scale, customer-driven, and robust AI-powered innovation. Visit top1.fm/outreach and learn how to close deals faster in today's remote sales world. So what then are are… when you think about what you're controlling on a daily, weekly basis, and it sounds like that's predominantly just the number of outreach attempts you're making, how do you think about that? Is there, is there a number that you're shooting for? How do you, how do you know, like, okay, I've been successful in controlling the things I can control?

32:39 Alex Bruschi: Yeah, you know, it's funny, I feel like that's kind of changed over time. Like, I felt like it used to be a purely volume approach, you know, where it was like, hey, I got 45 dials out yesterday and I got 50 dials out today, so I did better today than yesterday. I'd like to say the unit of measurement that really tells a better story is how many meaningful conversations are you having per day? Because even if you have a great conversation with someone and they decide to not move forward, like, there are always those deals that come back months later, right? There are always those referrals So I guess really just digging to the bottom of like, what's the actual truth, right? Like, what does this person actually want rather than me just jamming whatever I have down their throat?

33:30 Scott Ingram: Man, that's, that's so good because you're right. Like those conversations, even what on the surface appears to be a negative conversation, you talk to somebody and you disqualify them. It's, it's a no that actually saves you 7 dials over the course of the next couple of weeks that you were going to attempt to get a hold of them again anyway, right?

33:50 Alex Bruschi: Exactly. And I'll even take it a step further. There are some times that the people who we speak to on the phone that by initial reaction and gut feelings sound like a definite no, right? Like they're giving you stiff answers, like they're not really opening up. Like there are times where you can even be thinking to yourself like, hey, I don't really think this call is going anywhere. And then all of a sudden you can just ask them a question and then they start asking buyer questions back to you, right? So like, I think there are a lot of people out there that, as I previously mentioned, are so afraid to just get hit by the avalanche of the salesperson overcoming their objections that they hold back what the actual truth is. And a lot of times a conversation that may feel like a disqualifying conversation All of a sudden at the end of it, you may be pleasantly surprised to find out that the person was actually interested. They just haven't told anyone the truth yet because they were just afraid, right, of dealing with the salespeople repercussions. So any conversation can drastically shift at any moment. So whether you do come out of those good conversations with someone moving forward into an opportunity or to your point, a disqualification, it's a win either way.

35:12 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So do you have like a target number of conversations that you're looking to have? How do you then think about that?

35:19 Alex Bruschi: That's a good question. Yeah. It gets a little bit sticky with us just because we're like working on closings. Right. So like, I don't know if calling someone up and asking them for like a piece of closing document, like counts as like a quote unquote conversation, but for the purpose of this, let's just keep it with outreach and cold outreach. I mean, anytime that I can have like 3 really high-impact conversations on a daily basis. You know, like, we'll get to the results, but in, in a year that I was number 1, I did 13 deals, right? So I don't need to go out and have 10 impactful conversations a day because not only is it not really that possible, they're not really going to be very impactful. So I guess the point that I'm trying to get to here is that if you can look at how many meaningful conversations you have and multiply that out over a yearly basis, we should easily be able to see our quota attainment within those conversations, as opposed to looking at the amount of dials we make, right, or the amount of emails we send.

36:25 Scott Ingram: Yeah, and what's beautiful about that is it's just 3 conversations. So, you know, whatever the inputs that get you there, I think being focused on that, and then you can also have a little bit of an emphasis on how do I actually make this meaningful, like we were talking about before, right? Maybe it's a conversation that I continue to ask the right questions and it does open up. It turns somebody into that was just initially essentially blowing me off to, oh, you know what, wait a minute, that actually makes some sense and I've got an opportunity to talk that through. That there are other outcomes that are maybe less obvious, but are, are fantastic outcomes, right? You, you learn about, you learn about them and it turns out they're part of an investment group and they can introduce you to other people in that group. So now, now one conversation turns into 3. So how are you thinking about, or maybe you've got other examples of a way that a conversation can become meaningful?

37:26 Alex Bruschi: It's another really good question. I think something that's really powerful that doesn't get talked about enough is incentives. And I definitely believe that all behavior is rooted in incentive. People are going to do what they're incentivized to do. And so I'll make a quick example using my industry. Whenever I come across a lead and there's a property manager involved, a property manager is paid off of a percentage of income that a property makes. So why on earth am I going to talk to a property manager about buying an income stream off of building, you know what I mean? It just makes absolutely no sense. And I could be the greatest salesperson in the world, but it's just going to be a complete waste of my time. So what I would say is I think not only aligning with the incentives of the customer, right, like making sure you're doing best by them, but also aligning your incentives with theirs.

38:22 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So you reminded me that I kind of skipped over the quantifying your results piece and your 13 deals. Talk about that. Like, How are the outputs measured? Because at the end of the day, that's what actually matters, even though we're trying to disconnect ourselves mentally from the way that that ends up playing out.

38:41 Alex Bruschi: Right. So how are our numbers calculated? There's a variety of metrics that we use. Purchase yield, kind of like a cap rate, deal count, total cash flow purchased. And in terms of the most important numbers, obviously, as I mentioned, this REIT model that we follow is the total cash flow purchased. In 2020, I purchased $366,000 of annual recurring cash flow, which to put it into perspective, one team of 4 people produced $382,000 and another team of 4 produced $393,000 for the whole year. So these deals that we're doing can be extremely large and they can also be extremely small. In the case of my year, I actually had a bit of both where a couple of 2 of my deals, let's just say, represented probably 1% of my quota, and the bigger deals probably represented almost half my quota.

39:43 Scott Ingram: Yeah. How do you think about and manage that mix, or do you not worry about it and just focus on, these are the people that I can help and here's a deal and let's go get it done?

39:53 Alex Bruschi: A little mix of the both, but definitely more of the latter. My simplicity, my focus on simplicity rather, goes and it goes into the process as well. So I'm real classical in the sense that I have a piece of paper and pen where I've got all of my deals that I feel like are actually within striking distance, right? And then we could start talking about like what's a deal in striking distance and how do you define that. But I always have a list that's right next to me at all times that I'm always looking at to always know that I know what my next step is. It's put out clearly. And it's just, you know, obvious to point out that, that timing is so important in all of this. Like, I can't, you know, talk to someone today and expect that, like, you know, in June they're going to be engaged enough to sign a deal, right? Like, there's a certain sort of, like, time frame that you want to try and keep things in while it's relevant in their minds.

40:52 Scott Ingram: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I want to come back to just kind of the career thing. So, so you've had this sort of wild adventure in the way that your sales career has developed. Knowing all that you know now and the experience that you have at this point, if you could go back and start that process over again, what would you do differently?

41:12 Alex Bruschi: I don't want to take… I don't want to take the easy route out here, but I really genuinely would say the approach and the mindset. I really can't stress enough how much better your life can be in sales and how much worse your life life can be in sales depending on what your mindset and your outlook is on it. So going back to what I was saying earlier, to go back to that time in my career when I was in that mindset of the leads suck, right? Like this person's getting better leads than me. If I had the book that they had, I would be doing as good as them. Like none of, none of that is actually relevant, right? All of that attention, energy, and focus that we're using to basically make all of those realities become true should be used to improve your career and should be used to constantly improve your skills, because this is never an industry that you've got it all figured out, right? Things are so drastically changing all the time. So I would say being earlier committed to the forever student of sales type of mindset.

42:22 Scott Ingram: Nice. Is there anything more to that? I mean, as you think about your mindset today and your outlook, what is that? How are you trying to, I don't know, think? Is that the right word?

42:33 Alex Bruschi: Yeah. Yeah. I know exactly what you're asking. So here's actually the best way I would describe it. And I guess I'll go back to another analogy because I feel like fun analogies are a good way to communicate a complex idea or explanation. So like Steph Curry, right, is like obviously like the best shooter that anyone's ever seen in basketball. Like if he's going to go and shoot a jump shot, like he's not thinking about, you know, what do I do with my feet, right? Like, you know, what type of angle should I put on the shot? Like, am I going to miss it or am I going to make it? Like, I missed my last 10 in a row. That means I'm going to miss. Like, no, they just go and they shoot the ball and they get it as close to the net as they can. And whatever happens happens, right? It could be a swoosh, it could be a lucky roll, it could be a lucky bounce, it could be an unlucky bounce. And all you could do is just put the ball as close to the rim as you possibly can, right? Like to the back of the cup, as they would say. And that's, that's just really what it is in sales is, I mean, on a really simple granular level, you are just picking up the phone as rapidly as possible. Calling people up and finding out the truth, finding out the truth of whether you can or cannot help them, discovering deeper or moving on accordingly. So I actually like what you said in a previous episode where like our numbers really aren't necessarily our responsibility, right? There's so much external factors that are out of our control that go into it. But what we can control is how good of an effort we're outputting every day and how consistent of an effort we're outputting every day. And so to our previous point, wrapping it back up again, as long as the numbers are there, as long as the effort is there, we've got to believe that the results will follow.

44:22 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I, maybe I'll record a sales tip about this or something, but I've been thinking particularly this week, I had a wild week. I think about sales karma, right? And that can work both ways because I had one of these weeks where where, I mean, I've been working my butt off and some things just happened in a great way that again, I didn't really control. Like, if I'm honest about it, it's just kind of an interesting situational thing. It's going to have a great outcome for me. And there's so many other things that I'm working on that probably aren't going to pan out. And it's just one of those things where I think I'm going to get all woo-woo here. Like the universe sort of recognizes the effort and it's like, Scott, you know what? You deserve a big win because we see you. We see what's going on here. We're, we're going to give you this giant boost over here. Keep doing what you're doing. And the reverse I think is true too, right? Like maybe you just lucked into a deal for no good reason, but if you're just sloughing off and you're not working, like you're going to pay for that. It's kind of this like what comes around goes around kind of an idea. And I really, I see it over and over and over again. Like, and you know, some people would say that, what is it like, luck favors the prepared, or, you know, those, those types of statements, because you can't predict how it's actually going to play out because it is just wild the way it really works. You don't have to wait for the universe to recognize the right types of activities and behaviors on your team. Terryberry is built for this. Their award-winning 360 recognition platform can absolutely be used to reward the right right kinds of behaviors and keep your team doing the right things consistently. If you're with me on this and believe that a powerful recognition solution can help you drive the success you're looking for, let Terryberry help you build a culture of recognition and performance today. You can learn more at top1.fm/terryberry.

46:25 Alex Bruschi: I really couldn't agree more, and this is something that I've actually seen circulate on LinkedIn a little more, and it's about like the push versus pull relationship, you know, like where you're pushing people to do what you want, right? And to self-fulfill your needs, you know, in your job versus like you're just pulling people towards you, right? Like if they want to come over, great. Like if they end up making it all the way, good. If they don't, like I'll learn from those mistakes, but I'm not going to beat myself up over it. So I couldn't agree more, you know, especially in an industry where, I mean, like let's be real, there's a lot of sort of like divine intervention, right? Like there's so many pieces of timing, right? There's so many pieces of just, just luck that we just can't manage.

47:13 Scott Ingram: Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think it almost universally applies if you just think about, you know what, I'm just working as hard as I can to help as many people as I can. And, you know, I think that's, that's true for the work that you're doing too. And sometimes I can help and sometimes, you know what, it's, it's just, it's not the right fit or it's not the right time and, you know, we'll be able to help in the future. And it just kind of comes around. Anyway, let's, let's come away from my, you know, maybe I've been meditating too much. I'm not sure what's going on here. What, what do you struggle with the most? What do you still find to be like, ah, this part still confounds me?

47:48 Alex Bruschi: It's a good question. And, you know, I guess I can pretty transparently and honestly say that it's not always so easy to go in because I'm, for reference, I'm a full, I'm a full cycle rep. So I'm responsible for my own prospecting, right? Like no one brings me deals or anything. So I really do think that, you know, no matter how motivated, right, or how excited somebody is to do their job and make money, like there is that sense of like, how do you get motivated each day, right, to go out and make all of those dials and have all of these conversations, right, and kind of pour yourself out to your customers day after day. So I think there does definitely become that point, almost like when… to go back to the sports analogy, Again, like if you're a team who's already clinched the playoffs, let's just say like what incentive do you have to win? You know, like obviously for someone who, you know, may not be in the best of situations, it's easy to go out there and bust your butt every day. But like once the results are there, once your comfort level is there to go in and put in that work every single day, you know, like I said, those dials, those emails, this and that, there are days when it could be a challenge and that's just the truth. And those are the days when you you've gotta be more focused than any others that you, to our previous point, just gotta follow the process consistently, right?

49:13 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So what is that for you? What is the driver? What is the motivator?

49:17 Alex Bruschi: Good question. I would obviously say I'm a financially motivated person. I think we all are in some respect and fashion, but, you know, there definitely is the desire to connect with people always, right? And especially in this kind of lockdown environment that we're in. So like, I would definitely say that there's a great sense of fulfillment when you're in sales and you're good at your job, right? And you're talking with people on a daily basis that respect you as a seller and you're having great conversations day in and day out. Like that's when you really start to reap not only the financial rewards of the industry, but I mean, really then the social and emotional awards, right? Like who doesn't like to help people, you know, and who doesn't like to, especially these days, help people solve their problems, you know, or in our circumstances, like cut people a big fat check. So I think there's that intrinsic desire that we all hold to help each other. But I think really for us as salespeople, like if we think about it, like we're really the front lines of like virtually almost all communication, right? Like when countries are reaching trade agreements, let's just say, you know, like it's salespeople, right, that are, that are like breaking down those initial walls, like huge enterprise deals when we're talking about the tech space, like that, that's all initiated by salespeople. You had the person on the show who, if I remember correctly, initiated talks between LinkedIn and Microsoft.

50:53 Scott Ingram: That's not quite accurate, but yes, episode 1, folks, episode 1. So the real story is Mike Dudgeon was on the podcast and Mike was at LinkedIn. He was the number one account manager, and he was managing the Microsoft relationship kind of right before, and, and I think even during the time that Microsoft acquired LinkedIn. So I, I joked in that episode that he was responsible for a, you know, $40 billion acquisition or, or whatever that, that number is. It's not quite real, but, but it was, it was fun.

51:28 Alex Bruschi: Well, some salesperson had to break down those initial walls, right? Is, I guess, like, that's the… I guess that's the sauce is like where, like, like, like we're the front lines, right, of like all of these like groundbreaking agreements that eventually come to fruition. So it's just like a fascinating art, right, of like when you think about sales, like you're, you're really… and I saw someone post this on LinkedIn recently, like you're, you're really just managing people at an extraordinarily high level emotionally and intrinsically motivated-wise. Right?

52:01 Scott Ingram: Yeah, yeah. I want to come back to… this is sort of an interesting continuation from what will be the episode before this, and we were talking about some of this motivation stuff, and it's fascinating that you used the word fulfillment because I think… well, let me ask this: does the motivation change? Do you think about those drivers differently when you're in that place of I got to make sure that I've got my nut covered and I'm earning enough to pay my bills and just take care of the basics. And then once you get to that point, does the driver start to shift? Is that the level and how does it shift?

52:41 Alex Bruschi: Yeah, it's a good question. And obviously this has to do with each and every person's goals, right? Like there are people out there that like want to be the top earner, you know, that there ever was and want to have the best numbers and everything. For me, I'm not so just purely financially motivated, you know, that it's just like a, like a pure numbers game. To your previous point, like, I do definitely point, point out fulfillment because I do definitely think it's, it's something that's important. Like, it's only very recently that the mental health conversation has really, has really seeped its way into sales. And I really do largely believe that it has a larger impact on our outcomes than we choose to realize. Realize, like somebody who's on the phone with someone, right, that's already at quota, like they don't necessarily have that commission breath, right? Like they're going to sell better than someone who's desperate, you know, than someone who may be soon on the chopping block. So I really can appreciate that the mental health conversation has, has made its way into sales more. But I guess like, where does that point truly begin to blossom, right? Like where, like, like how does that actually impact our performance on a level.

53:57 Scott Ingram: Yeah, it's so funny that you bring that up. So the, the day that we're recording this, I believe it's Tip 729. This is exactly what Jeff Bajorek just talked about, and he talks about being your best sales self, and, and he talks about the recognition in himself that he changed after he'd met his quota, and he just became more free and loose, and he sold better after he'd gotten to that point each month or each, each period, right? And just kind of talking about and thinking about, can you take on that mindset? Can you take on that persona almost even before you get there? Can you do that when you're at zero at the start of the previous month? Or do you have, I need to make my number, Scott, and then Scott's above his number. And that experience and the way that we act is, is very different. And I think it's one of these things where part of it is introspective, but really under… truly understanding. Because I think even as I've asked about this more, your answer to the motivation question has become more nuanced and deeper as we've really gotten into it. So I think the more that we can understand that about ourselves, and what's really driving this and being able to really tap into into that is going to help do the work day in and day out. And, and for me, there's also just a degree of excellence. Like, I want to be great, you know. I want to be seen as somebody who does the hard things day in and day out and produces these extraordinary results because, you know, because of the sales karma or whatever happens. But, you know, I'm doing the work.

55:44 Alex Bruschi: That's a really, really fascinating point because if you even think about it, like, could you imagine just like time transporting yourself, let's just say, you know, to a day that like, you know, you made all your cold calls and you sent out all your emails and a deal that you thought was coming in fell apart, right? Like, and you're gonna go and do a call session then, right? Like, imagine how ineffective that call session would be versus like if you could perfectly create this environment where like you just had a deal close or like you just had a great conversation a few minutes ago and you're you're feeling hopeful, right? You're feeling really giddy almost. And to compare those 2 dial sessions, right, of like how it would go in each of those set mind frames, I think it would be really profound. And how do you actually foster that mindset to Jeff's point before you hit your quota, right? Like how do you have those same outputs beforehand? That's a really, really interesting point to dive deeper on.

56:45 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And I wonder if you can fake way into it. I wonder if you can kind of visualize that outcome. Like, what if you were to pretend that you just, you know, like flashback on that time that you did have that experience and start that session with that mindset going in? Just, just, you know, you're gonna be so much more free and loose and you're gonna have great conversation.

57:11 Alex Bruschi: Yeah, yeah. I know that Morgan Ingram posts all the time about having like playlists, you know, for certain moods or certain like activities or certain tasks or whatever. So that, that's really interesting to think about. Like, how could we like genuinely foster those mindsets before the reality actually is real, for lack of a better phrase? Like, I almost, as we're talking about this right now, I'm almost like thinking off the top of my head, like maybe there's a way to quantify our activities prior to deals closing, right? So like if you go back on, on your previous years and like how many dials did you make, how many deals did you close based on that and almost like come up with a dollar amount per dial, you know, so like sort of activity where it's like, hey, you know, I made 50 dials, so I made $2,000. I'm just making up numbers. I don't know, maybe that's at least like a start towards figuring out what the best path could be.

58:06 Scott Ingram: Yeah, yeah, something to experiment with. And if you do do this, if you try this, you know, I'm actually kind of thinking like along the lines of Tony Robbins, right? It's, it's putting yourself in a particular state before you start that session. So if you do this, I want to hear about it. So send me a note, scott@top1.fm. Maybe we'll have a conversation in a hotel room and then you'll be on this podcast in 2 or 3 years. We'll see how that… we'll see how that goes. Gosh, it would be great to be in a hotel room, period. Man, I miss traveling. Anyway, so Alex, let's talk about just kind of the routines and the process and everything else. And you know how this rolls, right? So alarm clock goes off, give me, give me the Blow by blow.

58:43 Alex Bruschi: Yeah. So I will say pre-COVID, right, pre-lockdown, the alarm was more so like a 5:30. But now cutting out the commute, alarm goes off at 6:00. I've actually started something new fairly recently is drinking like a 12 to 16 ounce glass of water right when you wake up is very, very underrated. And then I always get my workout in in the morning. I'll do like 5, 6 days a week at the gym. Rest day is also definitely very important there. And then something I think also doesn't get talked about enough is like having like a nice breakfast, like a nice, you know, like non-processed food breakfast to really, to really kick the day off into gear. And then I'll typically start prospecting around 8:30, 9 o'clock. I'm a really, really big subscriber to dial blitzes, you know, like go for whatever, 60, 70 minutes, as many dials as you can, take a 10-minute rest, go back in and go for another dial blitz. So I'm definitely a huge subscriber to that. What I would also say as well is even though I am a full-time rep, I probably spend like 50, 60% of my time prospecting. So for any full-cycle reps out there, I cannot express enough the need to constantly constantly have deals in the pipeline, which means no matter what your pipeline looks like, you must always be prospecting.

1:00:12 Scott Ingram: And is that an everyday thing? Are you cranking out, call it, 2 dial blitzes a day, every day?

1:00:18 Alex Bruschi: Every day I prospect. Every day.

1:00:20 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So what happens after the dial blitzes? Walk us through the rest of the day.

1:00:24 Alex Bruschi: Yeah. So I think everyone has different outputs of energy. Let's just say I am much more energetic in the morning than I am in the afternoon. So I want to get all of my prospecting done right away as soon as I possibly can. I prefer to save afternoons for maybe more targeted dials, maybe follow-up dials and customer actual meetings, because I know that when I have those conversations, I'm always going to get energized. Like, it's, it's not as easy to stay energized during a dial blitz when, you know, 20 people have sent you to voicemail, whereas any conversation I hop into, like, I know that, that I'm immediately going to have some energy. So generally speaking, I always try to do the more, you know, meeting-oriented, follow-up-oriented, even admin-oriented work all in the afternoon up until I'm finishing up.

1:01:23 Scott Ingram: Nice. And then what is, what is that finish up? And I'm also curious about how are you setting up your dial blitz? Do you know who you're going to call beforehand?

1:01:31 Alex Bruschi: Yeah. So my lead book essentially is, you know, thousands of people with, you know, some, some sort of telecom infrastructure on their property. So we actually work out of territories. I have 2 of the same territories that I worked last year and 1 new one. So for me particularly, I'll be starting this year off going through the new territory, right? And just making those touches, leaving those voicemails, having those initial conversations and setting those long-term follow-ups, right? And signing the people who are ready to sign now and then really, I guess, to answer your question, is the wrap-up is really just so important for setting up your next morning, right? Like, I always like to have an idea of what I'm going to get started with immediately the next day. Like, who are the people that I need to talk to tomorrow? Who are the people that I have to get in touch with tomorrow? What's an impactful conversation that I can anticipate is going to happen tomorrow, right? And how do I want to prep myself? So the preparation game is very, very, very largely underestimated. That is one of those I would say that over the past year or so I've really, really dove into it and the results have paid off tremendously.

1:02:44 Scott Ingram: Nice. What is that prep? So when does it happen? What's the process?

1:02:48 Alex Bruschi: Yeah, so I'll typically do it as I'm wrapping up, maybe 5 PM or so. And really it's… I want to focus my energetic attention, let's just say, towards outreach, right? Getting dials and making contacts and having those important conversations as, as we talked about earlier. But then really in that afternoon, it really wants to be more like introspective, right? And thinking about the more strategic deals that I'm working on and really, really being focused on like, what is the next step in all of my deals? Not just, you know, how do we get this person to sign, right? Step by step. Like, what is this next step, right? To get, to get this person, this company, this municipality to start taking one more step forward.

1:03:38 Scott Ingram: Nice. And then what happens at the end of the workday?

1:03:41 Alex Bruschi: End of the workday, obviously a nice dinner. My wife and I actually get to bed pretty early now that we're out on the West Coast. We used to be night owls, but now we're, we're pretty much asleep at, you know, 9, 9:30. What I would say is important too is the last, last 30 minutes or hour or so before bed, you know, we're always trying to do some kind of wind-down, whether it's like going for a nice walk, watching some TV, TV, you know, especially us as sellers, I couldn't think of anything more important than like really clearing the mind before bed. But, you know, aside from that, obviously outside of normal, you know, social life, going out to dinner with friends and whatnot, the afternoons is really good times to, to work on our development, right? To listen to these podcasts, to get a book, to do a webinar, to take a little bit of time learning a little bit more about your product. So in the afternoon is a lot of Sales Success Stories time. Honestly, Scott.

1:04:38 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Well, let's keep talking about that. I want to understand kind of the development process. What else are you reading, listening to, and watching? And specifically, I mean, you brought this up before, how are you focusing on the absorption?

1:04:52 Alex Bruschi: I really do obviously enjoy sales-related, you know, books, podcasts, you know, whatever the form of content may be. I do definitely think it's important that we're also diving into things that aren't necessarily sales-related. Whether it's nonfiction, whether it's reading to learn about food, whether it's learning to read about the best methods of exercise. Like, I, I really genuinely do think we need to all take time to do those things that like really make our deep-down soul happy, because then it actually creates more headspace, to your point, to absorb all of the things that we're actually learning. And so how do you do that, I think a great way is really journaling and writing things down because it actually forces your brain to chemically change the way it's thinking about said item when it's in your head versus you actually take it down and write it on a piece of paper. And so speaking on a granular level, if someone is listening to a podcast, listening to a book, and they really, really hear an important piece of information that feels profound at the don't be afraid to pause and just stew on it. I feel like everyone these days is, you know, whether you're a reader, whether you're a writer, like, I don't think there's anything wrong with just being a thinker, right? Like, just really, really think and absorb not just this tip or this trick that you're learning, but like, how does it truly integrate into your current process that you've already made your own, right? Like, I can't read a post from somebody on LinkedIn and necessarily go out and implement it tomorrow because it might have absolutely nothing to do with my industry or the persona who I'm speaking with.

1:06:43 Scott Ingram: What have been the biggest sources of those kind of deep insights and epiphanies? I mean, feel free to name-drop specific books and specific podcasts or episodes, or I mean, what in the last year or so, what's been the most consistent sources of those ideas? That you're like, yeah, I need to pause and think about this and kind of process this a little bit?

1:07:04 Alex Bruschi: Yeah, yeah. Definitely going to give a shameless plug here to Sales Success Stories once again. I mean, really, even being in the seat here and just like being asked these questions by you, like, I don't even know that I've thought about some of this stuff so deep, you know, as to when someone can really dive into this with you on a deep level. So really, obviously, Sales Success Stories, I would say, has been the number one Driver. 30 Minutes to President's Club, I think, is also fantastic. I think John Barrows has a great Make It Happen Monday show. And then there's, there's just a lot of great books out there. Where to even begin? I think with a lot of people, the most important piece to all of this is like really making a decision on what direction they would like to go with their, their selling style, you know, or kind of like I said, like who, like what style they would like to to emulate? Because once you know that, then you can really start looking for those individual specific pieces. Because 2 people may give you a piece of advice and they'd be absolutely opposite. And it's important to test those out and see what works for you. But once we've kind of found that, maybe compare it to like the North Star, right? Of like, hey, this is how I want to perform as a seller. Like, these are are the type of things that really feel influential or feel natural to me. Let that be the guiding North Star. So when you find people that share in those same views, when you find books that share in those same views, as opposed to maybe going for the volume game and just trying to read as many books as you can or listen to as many podcasts as you can, don't be afraid to go back and listen to the same ones over and over and really let it next to second nature in terms of how thoroughly you're understanding.

1:09:05 Scott Ingram: Yeah, man, that's great. I have a couple of thoughts. One is just this overarching thought that… and I'm starting to see this show up a lot more often thematically, and maybe I'm just paying more attention to it… but thinking is underrated. It's just this idea that you've got to take time and just give stuff some thought and the stuff, it might be introspective, right? It might be trying to become a little bit more aware about yourself and what you're doing and what you might be able to improve. It might be deal-specific. It might be, hey, as I'm thinking through my pipeline and what I'm working on, how can I get creative in the work that I'm doing that's going to help bring this deal to fruition and make it more valuable or make it move faster or include more people in the, in the process or what have you, right? And then just some of these development things. And then secondary to that, actually, so 2 book recommendations, and I think they're, they're both… one is if you haven't read Think and Grow Rich, you need to read that book. The second, more current, that's been mentioned here a couple times more recently is Cal Newport's… is it Deep Thinking?

1:10:21 Alex Bruschi: Deep Thinking or Deep Work?

1:10:23 Scott Ingram: Deep Work.

1:10:24 Alex Bruschi: That's what it is. That's what it is.

1:10:25 Scott Ingram: The Deep Work is basically Deep Thinking. So, so I think those are a couple of interesting interesting sources. But I also really like your callout because it's that time of year, right? We're all setting goals and I'm seeing a lot of people set these, I'm going to read 50 books this year, 25 books this year kind of goal. And I'm like, you know what? I think that's too much. And one of the things that I'm personally working on is I want to become a better leader. I had an epiphany last year that sales is leadership and if that's is true, then I want to develop more as a leader. But the way that I'm managing my development on that is I'm going to read 5 books about leadership, and from each book I will choose one kind of core concept or idea to work on actually enacting, right? To me, that's going to have a much more profound impact than if I confused myself because I read 50 books on leadership, right?

1:11:25 Alex Bruschi: And like, each of those 50 books are going to have points where maybe they intersect or maybe they sort of conflict in their values. So that's cool that you're actually doing it live time. I mean, you said that you had the epiphany roughly a year ago. How many of your… if you don't mind me putting you on the spot, how many of your 5-book goal are you up to? And if you're getting significantly into it, have you noticed a difference from when maybe you were consuming on a larger scale?

1:11:51 Scott Ingram: Yeah. So this is actually net new for 2023. 2021, right? So I had the epiphany, but it was just kind of in this introspective process at the end of the year. And I was thinking about, you know, development goals and how do I want to grow this year. And I realized I really… so I had this idea, I had this insight, but I hadn't really acted on it. So now it's okay, now how do I get more intentional about developing this, this skill set, an area that I haven't really worked on in, in myself at all before? And what's the best way to do that? How do I build a development plan that's going to help me get to that point. The other thing that it does is it forces you to be pretty choosy about, okay, well, what are those 5 books going to be? And I get to have a lot of conversations with my mentors and with my network about, hey, you know, what would you recommend? What's going to help me the most? And that has been incredibly insightful about what types of leadership. So it's been a fascinating process, but I'm halfway through the first book, if that. So the real work has only just begun.

1:12:55 Alex Bruschi: Yeah, but you figured out the process. It's simplified and you're gonna follow it, right? I guess, I guess that's kind of the most important piece. You know, to even go back on something you said earlier on the thinking piece, I feel like a lot of times even when people do like have this, okay, let me go and think about it, right? You know, it's almost like when you're like purposely trying to think about something, right? You know, it's like, oh, but I got to vacuum the floor, you know, and you start like having all these other crazy thoughts. Like, thinking can also be subconscious too. And I'll like give it… I'll give an example here because we recently had the holidays. Like, there was a deal that I had that was like at a little bit of a logjam point, you know, and then had a week off for the holidays. And I didn't purposely think about the deal, you know, through the holidays. Like, I had a real intention to really unplug. And then my first morning back to work, once I got back to that work mindset mindset, all of a sudden my brain was bursting with all of these ideas, right? Of, hey, what about this? What about this? What about this? So I think to maybe put a bow on it is like, even if we're not necessarily putting that conscious effort towards thinking, as long as we're in the right mind frame, our mind is still coming up with these possibilities, just, just maybe subconsciously instead of like above the surface, so to speak.

1:14:15 Scott Ingram: Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's interesting. I am, so probably not very uniquely, I do some of my best thinking in the shower. And I find that if I kind of program myself like, hey, I really want to give this some, some thought, and I'm not a long shower guy, but again, it's, I'll often kind of find solutions and have epiphanies. I had this streak. This is not normal for me, but I had this period. It may have been over the holiday break where for about a week, every morning I woke up and it was like, like, oh my God, and I had these great ideas. And I've actually been thinking about thinking about thinking, to your point around kind of this, this subconscious piece, is can I program myself at night? Like, you know what, I need to think more about X. I think the challenge is it might keep me from sleeping, right? Right. Hey, hey, look, conscious brain, you're not allowed to think about it, but let's just kind of like process this at night and see if we up with other epiphanies. So there's, there's another experiment that, that maybe I'll, I'll run on myself. So, so thanks for prompting that.

1:15:19 Alex Bruschi: That's a really, really fascinating thread too. I'd be really interested to know if any of the listeners, you know, kind of like feel the same or if anyone's had similar experiences. But, you know, I feel we can really notice the difference now, right? Because we're living this lockdown life and no one's commuting really for the most part. And we have these phones Right? We have these supercomputers that are available at all times. And, you know, it's kind of bizarre, like the days you can feel the days that you spend a little too much time on the phone, spend a little too much time scrolling social media, because to your point, like when you come out of the shower or when you wake up in the morning, like a lot of times it can stifle your thinking. So what I would say is using the North Star reference, like whenever we're doing an activity, whether it's sleeping, showering, running, wherever it is that you you get your ideas, whoever it may be, like those are the right activities to be doing, right? 'Cause like, isn't that the result we want? You know, like for our brain to be like bursting with these great ideas and then thinking, hey, which one of these is the best idea? And working out of that sort of a frame of mind rather than, you know, to my previous point, like, oh, you know, the leads suck, like this sucks. Like when you've got these ideas just constantly bursting outta your mind, it's fulfilling, right? Like that's when the work really, really starts become fulfilling.

1:16:42 Scott Ingram: So we've been talking a lot, kind of alluding to the style piece. This is out of my normal order, but I like it. Let's roll with it. How would you describe your style?

1:16:53 Alex Bruschi: Good question too. I would really describe my style as… I don't want to necessarily say a challenger, right? Because I don't know that that necessarily encapsulates everything. I like the approach that someone like a Josh Braun takes, where you really… your number one goal is to help people think about their situation differently. So I guess like I go back to like really that question-based selling of like really helping people to wrap their minds around their situation and putting it in their own words. But it's tough to necessarily nab down one style because there are times in the sales process where you need to be a challenger, right? Like there are parts in the sales process where you need to be a relationship builder. So it really is almost kind of like this switch. Army knife, like where you have to almost have all of these skills available to you, but know which one to use and when.

1:17:48 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's great. And I wonder if the answer is the same because I usually ask if you subscribe to a particular sales philosophy. Does that change that answer at all or is that, is that kind of it?

1:17:57 Alex Bruschi: I would say that is it. And I would go back to the point of I definitely consider myself always a work in progress. Like I think once any salesperson gets to the point where like they feel like they know it all or they don't need to improve anymore, you know, they're perfect as they are. Like, that's just the point where you start to tumble. So this is, this is always a work in progress.

1:18:20 Scott Ingram: Yeah, love that. Love that. Is there something you believe that the average sales professional would think is crazy?

1:18:28 Alex Bruschi: Long emails don't work. Long emails don't work. Like I told you earlier, my best performing prospecting emails are like 3 sentences. Sentences, and one of the 3 sentences is please confirm yes or no either way. So I guess maybe I would even put a bow on it and say, like, I almost feel like the number one goal of outreach, cold outreach that is, is to elicit a response. And like, for many people, they just want to get that yes right away, right? Like, they're like emailing you about the features of their product and like, you know, I could care less. Right. So I think just that piece of just messaging them what's actually relevant and cutting out everything else. Like, I don't think people are as into the fluff as, as our brains tell us we think they are.

1:19:17 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. You know, you had… I listened to your episode that you did with Nick and Armand on, on 30 Minutes to President's Club, and it's really good. I'd recommend it to other folks. And you got into a lot more of the detail. It sounds like you're also kind of using the Marcus Chan style voicemail is as well, sort of the presumptive, you know, call me back type of approach. You know what I'm talking about?

1:19:38 Alex Bruschi: Absolutely. And here's kind of a cool story on a voicemail. Actually, I had a voicemail thankfully turn very, very fruitful for me. This was like at the end of 2019, actually. In fact, normal day, like I was saying earlier, you know, sometimes hard to find the motivation. I'll never forget this. I was, you know, going through my leads and I'm about to leave a voicemail, you know, and there's that voice in the back of your head like, oh, You're wasting time, right? Like, don't leave this voicemail. They're not going to answer you. So long story short, I'm calling into a municipality and I end up leaving this guy, like, to your point, like brief, like very assumptuous voicemail. You know, like I genuinely expect people to call me back when I leave them a voicemail, but I don't leave them voicemails longer than like 15 seconds. Same as the voicemail, super short. Hey, this is why I'm calling you. Call me back. And I do genuinely expect them to call me back. And the story I was mentioning earlier, I did end up getting a callback from the gentleman who I had left the voicemail with, and it ended up leading me down this path that netted me like 8 transactions with one municipality. So for everyone out there who's thinking that they shouldn't leave that voicemail or may not have the motivation to leave that voicemail, do it. You never know what's on the end of that line. 1 in 100, 1 in 500, 1 in 1,000, you know, who knows, can literally turn into the biggest deal of your career.

1:21:00 Scott Ingram: There you go. There you go. What about the flip side? Is there something the average sales professional believes that you think is crazy?

1:21:07 Alex Bruschi: I think that the terminology objection handling has kind of taken a turn for the worst with salespeople. I think that we… I think this is starting to change more recently, but the combative objection handling is just, in my opinion, one of the worst ways to win over the confidence of a buyer and get closer to a deal. So like what I would say is instead of objection handling, view it as truth-finding, right? Like just find out the truth, because once you find out the truth and the person on the other end of the phone is genuinely giving you all of the information, unbiased, truthful, when you need it, how you're asking it, that's what the sales process is. Is, right? It's 2 people, it's 2 parties like that are in sync on the same plan. Like, that doesn't really happen when there's that sort of like combative energy. I don't know, it might just be me there.

1:22:08 Scott Ingram: Yeah, actually, I totally agree with you. I actually think of it in terms of objection understanding and in terms of your kind of truth-seeking piece. It's probably one of the fastest paths to the truth, right? Somebody puts up objection, if you just lean into that from a curiosity, I just want to understand type of perspective, that's going to get you to that truth pretty quickly.

1:22:33 Alex Bruschi: You nailed it. That's really well said. I like that objection understanding instead of objection handling. That's a good one, Scott.

1:22:40 Scott Ingram: Well, there you go. Every now and then. So let's go back to kind of the career advice piece a little bit. I mean, we've, we've covered this in, in some detail, but what would you suggest to somebody that's just getting started in their sales career today, what would you suggest to them to help them get off to a great start?

1:23:01 Alex Bruschi: Get vertical on LinkedIn. And here's what I mean by this. I think it was Scott Barker who posted it, and if it was someone else, I apologize to that person. But on LinkedIn, we can get horizontal or we can get vertical, right? Or you can kind of do a combination of the both, like getting likes and getting shares and getting comments and engagement and all that stuff, like really genuinely is nice. Right. But from a perspective of reality, like there's really so much reality that shows. And so what I would say is if you are connected with people on LinkedIn and you frequently enjoy what they post, and especially if it's someone who you would like to emulate their style, let's just say, reach out to those people, right? Like actually get on the phone with them, actually understand how their mind works. Like basically ask these questions, right, that, that you're asking me and really start to understand these, these people on a much more personal and frankly professional habits standpoint, because that's really that North Star that's going to guide you to what the number one seller version of yourself looks like, right? Is to kind of follow that path that someone else has created, but then, then making it your own just when you've gotten close enough to emulation.

1:24:22 Scott Ingram: Yeah, that's brilliant. Help me understand, though, a little bit better the differentiation between going vertical and going horizontal. I'm not sure. I picked that part up.

1:24:29 Alex Bruschi: Definitely. So going horizontal is going for volume, right? Like you want the most connections, you want the most likes, you want the most comments. Like, I guess almost for lack of a better term, like popularity, right? Like you're just widely known. Whereas if, you know, let's say you were to take one person a week, I'm just throwing it out there, like one person a week, like you set your mind to say, hey, I'm gonna connect with one person from LinkedIn a week, right? For 30 minutes and I'm going to learn about their personal life, right? And I'm going to learn about their professional life. And at the end of the year, that's like 50 people, right? And, and when you start to, it's almost like the rule, right? They say like you become the 5 people who you spend the most time with. Like that's what you want to do as a seller as well. All right. Like, and I'll use myself as an example. Like I would start listening out to the episodes of Sales Success stories, and I would start to learn the terminology, you know, and then I would start to see the similarities and habits, and I would start to see the similarities and approaches. And then all of a sudden, you know, after months of absorbing all of this, what you'll start noticing is that all of a sudden you start sounding like the people, right, that you're listening to on the podcasts. And all of a sudden you're thinking just like them as well. And then by the time you know it and you look up and you're focused on your outputs, like all of a sudden you're number one. I know it sounds bizarre, but like the results really are the byproduct of everything else. So once you've got the right mindset, once you've got the right process, once you've sort of found your selling style, so to speak, then it's just put your head down and do the work. Like then it's just a pure numbers game.

1:26:11 Scott Ingram: Yeah, man, there's, there's so, there's so much in that. I feel like now I have to go on this giant monologue, but there's a couple of things. I think one, it's coming back to this idea of just going deeper, right? Kind of finding, finding your thing, finding what resonates, finding your people, finding, you know, the folks that, that kind of share the style that most closely aligns with who you are and who you want to be and that type of thing. And then just going deeper there rather than, rather than wider, right? And, you know, a lot of the ways that I think about the Sales Success Community and the Summit and the Encore Series and all this, all this stuff that we are doing is it's not for everybody, right? Each guest is gonna resonate maybe really deeply. Maybe you're like, this is the greatest episode you've listened to, and, and what Alex is sharing aligns with you perfectly. Or maybe it's like, yeah, you know, I'm more aligned aligned with Stephen Chase or, you know, some… somebody else. That's cool, right? I think getting to that understanding… and maybe you don't dig this stuff at all, right? Maybe. I mean, I… if you're still here, that's weird. If you're not digging this and you've been listening for like an hour and a half, that's really strange. But more along the lines of, if you resonate with somebody outside of the Sales Success Community, that's It's all good, right? Like, right, whatever that is, I think you have to kind of do the higher-level discovery work. And then once you understand it, then you've got that opportunity to go, to go deeper. I'll also say on the LinkedIn side, because you did talk about sort of the engagement and everything else, and, and actually probably about the time maybe after or shortly before we release this episode, I will have done probably the first 2021 update of the LinkedIn Sales Stars list. What's ironic about that and the way that our formula works and the way that we measure engagement, the path that you just described, Alex, is actually maybe a more productive way to get onto that list. And here's why. The way that we run the algorithm, it actually favors people with smaller networks. Now, there is a pretty high bar in terms of the cutoff, right? You have to have at least 2,500 connections or followers to, to kind of qualify to be evaluated or, or to make the list. But beyond that, it's about the level of engagement that you're driving. Well, you're gonna drive more engagement if you have more real relationships rather than random people that you're connected with on LinkedIn who may or may not resonate with your, with your stuff, if that makes sense.

1:28:59 Alex Bruschi: That makes complete sense. And I'll even kind of like put it into like an example. Like, let's just say that, like, I found the Sales Success Community, right? And I never used LinkedIn before, right? And I just logged into LinkedIn for one day, right? And found Scott Ingram on LinkedIn somehow and connected with you, you know? And we had our conversation that we had 3 years ago. We had our conversation that we had now. Like, if I just packed it up and that was it, like, LinkedIn was worth it for me. Right. Like, I think, I think people sort of like have this idea that, you know, unless you're like some sort of influencer, you know, or like hundreds of people are liking your stuff, then you're not really doing it right. I frankly would disagree. Like, and to your point, like a lot of times the smaller and more engaged community is infinitely times better, you know, than that large following on that person that's, you know, probably copying and pasting their posts anyway. Right. I mean, let's be real.

1:29:59 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. And I talk to people about this all the time. I mean, it's exactly what you did. Like, just reach out and ask to have a conversation. And here, here's the deal. It's not on you to worry about how busy that other person might be. That's their deal to worry about. And if they're too busy and they just don't have time to respond, that's fine. That's on them, not on you. But you should at least reach out. So if you hear somebody on this podcast or, or Alex, like, just absolutely resonates with you, freaking send Alex a note and say, hey man, that was awesome. I'd love to go deeper and have a conversation about X. And I think the more specific you can get and just breaking the, whatever, the third wall, the fourth wall, whatever wall it is, and going beyond passively listening to a podcast and actually connecting and actually having a conversation, I think you'll find people are way more willing to have those conversations and, and to reply than you think. And I think we all get in our heads around, oh my gosh, but everyone must reach out to them. Yeah, no, you know, I mean, I, I have a pretty popular podcast and, you know, a couple, 3, 4 people might reach out in, in a given week. It's a very manageable number and I love talking to you guys. So like, reach out, reach out. It's on me. If I don't have the time to talk to you, then I'll tell you, right?

1:31:22 Alex Bruschi: And, and saying you have a pretty popular podcast is pretty humble of you. I'll just give you that pat on the back here real quick for the people who are still listening an hour and a half in. But I really couldn't agree with, with what you said anymore, honestly. Like, I mean, let's even think about it, right? Like, let's tear it down to its bare bones. Like, if you're thinking to yourself right now, hey, I would love to reach out to this person, but so many other people are reaching out to them and they're probably too busy and they probably won't care about what I have to say, is you feel about what you're going to tell your prospects, right? Like, like, isn't it deeper than that? Like, isn't that almost prospecting itself, right? Like, to get these people that don't have a large attention span, right? Like, to get on their calendar is next to impossible. But like, what people don't realize is that a lot of these people are willing to help, they're just busy. And so it's almost your opportunity to show that you can cut through the noise. Like, that's almost the best practice or real-life experience next to prospecting there is, right?

1:32:26 Scott Ingram: Yeah, yeah. Well, and it's a mindset thing too. Like, if you're going into this thinking, I'm not important enough, this person is so busy, I think in the worst case you're talking yourself out of making the outreach attempt in the first place. I mean, you lost right there. I mean, that mindset is going to destroy you.

1:32:46 Alex Bruschi: I agree, I agree. And I think this is a… for, like I said, for the people that are still listening hour and a half in or wherever we're at at this point, that is a huge, huge, huge, huge nugget to take away. Because just remember, like, let's say someone's listening right now and they reach out to their favorite 10 people on LinkedIn and none of them answer, right? Let's say the worst possible scenario happens. Like, let's say it takes you months to get one conversation with somebody of this caliber, let's just say, on the calendar. Let me assure you right now that that time that it spends is worth it and the conversation will be worth it. So for anyone out there talking themselves out of it, just go for it. If you don't ask, the answer is always, always no.

1:33:33 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. And I've got a super easy way if you really just don't want to do the work and you want to write me a check, just sign up for the Sales Success Summit and we'll all be in the same place in October. That's the other hack here is, you know, We, we love to be together and to learn from each other. And there's a lot of conversations that go on in the Sales Success Community between people who've been on the podcast and listeners like Alyce and people who've been on the podcast previously and, and all these kinds of things. And there's nothing more fun than hanging out together. So if you're lazy, the challenge in that is, I was just talking about this to somebody the other day. I'm like, I'm like the anti-salesperson though, when it comes to the summit. Because if I have to convince you to come, I don't want you to come. Right? Like, this is for the people that get it, right, that want to be part of this club and understand the value. And this is just no-brainer. Like, that's who it's for. And if I have to sell you on this, never mind, it's cool. But please don't come.

1:34:37 Alex Bruschi: If I could just like encapsulate what you just said right there, like, that is the selling mindset. Like, I know that was an awesome ad for the summit, and I really hope someone goes now because they heard this. But like, what you just described, Scott, like, hey, I don't want to sell you on this, right? Like, this is so obviously beneficial for you that if you don't feel it's beneficial, I don't even care, right? Almost like, because I know you're crazy type of a deal. Like, isn't that how we need to be reaching out as salespeople? Just like, hey, I know that you need this, right? And deep down, you may know that you need this too. But like, if you're not going to give it the time of day or, you know, I'm going to have to like beg you to go ahead and do something, I could just move on and go talk to somebody else.

1:35:23 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And it's one of those like, I'm here, we're here. I'd love to serve you. I'm ready to help when you're ready. Right. And maybe you're just not at that place yet. And that's totally cool. We'll still be here when you are.

1:35:34 Alex Bruschi: Well, exactly. And then that just sets you up for, you know, going back to the push-pull relationship. Not to just keep going back to everything we'd spoke about previously, but that's the whole idea of the push-pull, right? Hey, when you're ready, we're here. You know, we know exactly what you need. When you, you know, work out the finances, when you work out your mindset, when you get the time, whatever the reasoning they used might have been, as soon as that's dissipated, right, as soon as that's past, you know, they're coming back to you.

1:36:03 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and again, that, that's the right, that's the buyer experience that you want to deliver, but it's the buyer experience that we want too. Right. It's to know that, hey, this sales professional, this is where the word comes into play. Like this person cares about me. They care about my outcome. They're there to serve me. And so when it is time, why would I call anybody else because I know they're gonna take good care of me.

1:36:29 Alex Bruschi: That's it. Like, that is… if you asked me, I think that's the direction selling is going.

1:36:35 Scott Ingram: I hope so.

1:36:35 Alex Bruschi: The buyer has all… basically, the buyer has all the power, right? Like, Google and all of the search engines are out there, like G2, you know, and reviews are all out there. Like, everything is out there in the open now. So like, I really do feel like it's the time for salespeople to not just be like sellers but to actually actually take pride in what you sell and being willing to tell people, hey, come back when you're ready, right? Like, is that not like the ultimate strength, like in showing of a salesperson's mindset to say, hey, when you're ready, you come back to me?

1:37:10 Scott Ingram: Right, right. And again, going back, going back to kind of the Jeff Bajorek concept and this, you know, acting as if you were already at your number, when you have that mindset and you you feel like I can walk away versus I need this deal, how much more powerful is that? How much more powerful are your actions? And now you're gonna attract those clients back. They're like, oh my God, okay, well, you know, things changed. April came, I'm working with my CPA on my taxes, and damn, this is gonna make more sense. I gotta call Alex.

1:37:43 Alex Bruschi: You know what, I would add something on top of what you just said, but I think you said it so perfectly, I'm gonna let, let it finish like that. So well said. All right, all right, seriously, Yeah, well put.

1:37:52 Scott Ingram: So we were talking about career advice, and the other angle I'm, I'm always interested in is the advice that you have for somebody that is further into their career, right? So they're, they're in this place, they're in a spot, and maybe they're… there's a couple angles I always take with this. Either, either they're struggling or they're at a place that's good, but they haven't made it to great, or they haven't made it to number one. What's your advice for them?

1:38:17 Alex Bruschi: For the folks that are in it, right, and, and have the experience Like, I think it can never hurt any of us to go back to the basics and see if we can even further simplify what we're doing. Because I think that the further we get into our roles, right, especially me now, you know, I'm going on to 3 years in one role. Like, I'm getting to the point where I almost know what people are going to say before they even say it. Right. And I almost kind of know what I'm going to respond before the other person even finishes their sentence. So I think sometimes we can build these habits that we don't really notice. And so I think for someone who's a little bit more experienced, and especially if you're not really in a place that you'd like to be right now, or you'd like to see some better results, go back to the drawing board. Like, go back to the basics, you know? Can anything be simplified? Like, even just like, like nobody wants to get tricked into doing a deal, you know? Like, I think it's getting very popular to like post a play that you were successful with on LinkedIn or whatever. But like, I really do genuinely believe if the core intention is to like trick someone or like manipulate someone right into doing what you want to do. Like, it's, it's just never really going to end the right way. So I guess I'd just say go back to the basics, keep things even simple. And if they're already simple, how can you make it even more simple?

1:39:43 Scott Ingram: Beautiful. I love it. Alex, you have listened to a lot of these episodes, and I wonder if there's a question that I don't ask as kind of the regular question flow that you wish I would?

1:39:57 Alex Bruschi: I think like obviously it's really great to hear people's successes, you know, and what they've done well, but I feel like a lot of people will… excuse me, I'll use myself as a circumstance, as an example, right? Like when I first started listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast, it was almost this veil of invincibility, right, that every guest had. Like, I almost like envisioned that like they never heard no, you know, or like they won every deal, right? Like they had like 100 batting average. But like, we all go through a lot of hard challenges throughout the year. Like, even the people that finish number 1, right? Like, everyone loses a heartbreaking deal. Like, everyone has, you know, the ball that bounces in the wrong direction. So I maybe like, what was like that bottom point of the career, right? Like where you felt like maybe being number one wasn't an option anymore, or like maybe you felt like you wanted to quit, right? Or like you were just ready to give up. And like, what was it that helped you turn around? Because I feel like these days, like especially as a seller, like that point is gonna like inevitably come. Like to try and go the year avoiding that, I think is almost foolish. Right?

1:41:14 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And what is that for you? And maybe we just put this in the context of the last year, right? Because you finished number 1, and I'm sure it was all roses and everything went perfectly, right?

1:41:24 Alex Bruschi: Yeah.

1:41:25 Scott Ingram: What was the thing… I mean, what was the thing that you had to overcome that almost took you off?

1:41:30 Alex Bruschi: Yeah, you know, sometimes when you're playing with a big lead, it can make you a little too comfortable. So like, I think there is definitely that maintenance of the relationship between like how hungry are you, right? Like, if you're too hungry, you're coming off as desperate, right? But if you're not hungry enough, then you're just totally complacent. Like, I think there's a line that we have to walk there, right, where there's like the energy and the intensity to do the output of the work that we need to do, but the EQ to be able to handle egos, right, and handle emotions and handle, you know, objections and finding those truths. So For me, I would say it was actually kind of the latter end of the summer, you know, and that's when, that's when things slow down anyway. But it's real easy to maybe get a little bit comfortable sometimes. And like, I, you know, even this year I had like a couple months stretch where, you know, I hadn't signed deals or anything. So this stuff happens to everyone. It's not like, how can I avoid going through a slump, right? It's how am I going to be ready to get through that slump when it arrives? I feel it's almost inevitable.

1:42:43 Scott Ingram: Oh yeah. So I've, I've actually been talking this in terms of, and this is going to sound weird, I feel like I always have to preface it that, that way, but planning to fail.

1:42:52 Alex Bruschi: Yeah.

1:42:52 Scott Ingram: And maybe it's not planning to fail, it's, it's planning for life. I mean, just planning for stuff to happen to you and, and really having a little bit of a game plan going in knowing, and, and even just thinking about, okay, what are the things that could go wrong. And let's expect that we're going to experience a lot of those things. So what am I going to do? Like when you're in a good place, when you've, when you've got a good proactive mindset, figuring out, okay, what am I going to, how am I going to react when I get thrown off my game? Sort of having that figured out in advance. So then when it comes, you're like, aha, okay, I see you, but now I already planned for you and this is how I'm going to react. And in really simple form, for me, especially this part of year, like I'm a rock star this, this time of year. Like I am so on top of my habits and my process and all of that stuff, right? We… that doesn't start to break down until, depending on how the year's going, sometime in February or sometime in March, right? But the trick is recognizing like, okay, at some point I'm gonna get knocked off and the streak is going to end.

1:44:04 Alex Bruschi: Yep.

1:44:05 Scott Ingram: The way I look at it is, okay, I'm willing to give up a day or even 2 days, but I'm not willing to give up more than that. And then the game is get back on, restart the streak, and see if I can go even longer than I went in the earlier streak. And that, for me, that's a huge challenge because again, I'm really good this time of year. It's a weird deal. I have figured myself out, so I just play this weird game with myself of, okay, can you beat January Scott?

1:44:36 Alex Bruschi: Right. That's so well said, Scott. And it almost reminds me of the classic Mike Tyson line, right? Like, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. And it kind of reminds me of running too, because I did fairly recently get into running. My wife and I did a marathon last, last March. And like, when you run a marathon, right, like, you absolutely know for a fact, like, there's going to be a point that you're close breaking down, you know. So like to go in with the mindset of, hey, let's just use the year for example, like, hey, you know, January Scott, right, is going to be the best Scott that I see all year. Like, you know, then you're kind of inhibiting yourself in the future, right? Like, whereas let's say you say to yourself, hey, I know that January Scott eventually is going to lose some steam, right? Because that's just how things go. What am I going to do then? Not just necessarily being so surprised every time, you know, January Scott fizzles out. It's more so like you've got that preparation in your back pocket for when that bad time comes. Because the reality of the situation is that getting out of a slump as quickly as possible is the best way to… I don't want to say save your job, but like is the best way to maintain consistency because we're all going to hit those, those patches.

1:45:52 Scott Ingram: Yeah. And again, like if you're planning for it, it's not going to feel so defeating. It's not going to feel like, I do this every year. I fall off my game. This sucks. I'm a loser. What's wrong with me? And you get into this horrible downward spiral. But if instead, if you planned for like, oh, okay, here it is. Okay, awesome. Here's my opportunity to show myself that I'm even better than that, that I've grown. And here's kind of the next level. And maybe you can tell I've been doing this for 20 years and I have figured out all the different ways that I can screw myself up.

1:46:29 Alex Bruschi: That's so well said. It's like properly managing your expectations, you know, like, like to, like to your point, if I'm just going through this sales year thinking that everything is going to be great to average all year and to your point, you get hit with that slump, then all of a sudden you're in the, you know, hey, I suck at this, you know, the leads suck, right? And then it's like back to that old petty mindset where if you can't get… if you can't shake that for a month or 2, like, we're, we're all of a sudden teetering on, hey, are we even going to make quota this year or not? Right? Because we couldn't get it together for a month or 2 of the year. So like, instead of trying to avoid those slumps and downturns, like, let's just shift our focus to how can we be prepared to overcome them when they inevitably happen?

1:47:18 Scott Ingram: Yeah. Yeah, that's the game. So, Alex, we've covered a ton of ground. This has been so much fun. You've totally made my Saturday. We always try on an end on this more actionable note. So what would you challenge the person listening to this to do over the course of the next one to two weeks to improve themselves and improve their results?

1:47:39 Alex Bruschi: Two things, Scott. Number one, I highly recommend everybody scroll way back down to the one of the very beginning episodes of the show and listen to DeJuan. DeJuan Brown's episode. His understanding of sales is just on another level in my eyes. And number 2, whoever's listening at home still, hour and a half, 2 hours in, however far in we are, I challenge you to reach out to somebody on LinkedIn that you've been following for a handful of months. You would like to emulate their style, and I challenge you to get 15 minutes on their calendar.

1:48:17 Scott Ingram: Love it. Great challenge. Alex, this has been fantastic. Thanks for joining me.

1:48:21 Alex Bruschi: Scott, had a ball. Thanks for listening to the Sales Success Stories podcast. To be sure you never miss an episode and for an invitation to our Sales Success Community powered by Influitive, subscribe to our newsletter at top1.fm.